A Crisp Day

The rumor mill is cranking today, as WFAN reported a rumor as fact that involved Coco Crisp being traded to the Mets for Angel Pagan.

The SOSH thread discussing the rumor — which has been denied by Theo Epstein — is here. Can’t say I’d be too thrilled with a deal like this either, unles it involved some more pieces. Pagan may be a decent fourth outfielder possibility, but you know who would be better? Coco Crisp!

70 comments… add one

  • Why would we do that deal? That’s insane.

    LocklandSF March 12, 2008, 4:02 pm
  • The Globe is already reporting this story debunked.
    Still, just for the sake of the argument, I am amused that the chatter over at MetsBlog was by-and-large against the trade and I would imagine most Sox fans would agree with that for their own reasons.
    Obviously, I’m doubly opposed to it.

    FenSheaParkway March 12, 2008, 4:03 pm
  • me no likey. If we’re coughing up Coco one would hope for pitching in return.

    ponch March 12, 2008, 4:12 pm
  • In other good news, the Red Sox won the Mayor’s Cup!

    Paul SF March 12, 2008, 4:27 pm
  • …Shelly Duncan. WTF.
    That is all.

    QuoSF March 12, 2008, 5:07 pm
  • Huh?

    Lar March 12, 2008, 5:30 pm
  • Shelly Duncan, attempts the old spike to the crotch move on a slide in to 2nd today.

    LocklandSF March 12, 2008, 5:31 pm
  • Duncan is the new Yankee enforcer, for better or for worse.

    AndrewYF March 12, 2008, 5:31 pm
  • Ya, just reading up on it now. The HBP should’ve been good enough, I guess. Still though, it’s a change from the “professionalism” of the usual Yanks, which I probably like more than dislike..

    Lar March 12, 2008, 5:35 pm
  • But ya, I expect a suspension coming..

    Lar March 12, 2008, 5:36 pm
  • The HBP, by most accounts, was hardly intentional. Brushed his uniform with runners on first and third, from a guy competing for a job. Would be a gross overreaction by the umpire had there been no recent history between the teams. Might have been an overreaction regardless.

    QuoSF March 12, 2008, 5:40 pm
  • Well, at least Duncan has a purpose now. I like it. It’s a good role for him, and a nice change of pace for New York. I’d like to see them get a little dirty. Shows they care a little ‘bit about taking care of each other.
    Should be an interesting season with Tampa for both teams. They’re a young, talented bunch of guys on a losing team and in a losing situation and are probably pretty tired of losing all the time.

    Brad March 12, 2008, 5:52 pm
  • He’s like Gabe Kapler. Just keep him on the bench for, you know, just in case something breaks out. ha.

    Anonymous March 12, 2008, 5:53 pm
  • Brad, there’s a difference between taking care of one’s teammates and going for the balls (literally-speaking, find a picture if you haven’t seen one yet) like Shelly did.
    Plus, f. The Sox are supposed to be the team that has these kinds of issues with the Rays, not the Yankees.

    QuoSF March 12, 2008, 5:56 pm
  • I’d prefer the “enforcer” on my team to have a few more than 34 career games played. But thanks, Shelley, for making sure to teach those TB punks how the game should really be played — Ty Cobb style.

    Paul SF March 12, 2008, 6:02 pm
  • What’s crazy to me is that the Rays are legitimately good. They could easily win 85 games, but things have to break right. Still, in the next few years they could be contending every year. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them finish third this year, and maybe higher if they bring up Price by mid-season.

    A YF March 12, 2008, 6:05 pm
  • Eh, I don’t think it’s a big deal. Duncan put himself in this hole anyhow by opening his mouth. He couldn’t have very well done nothing today to “play with a higher intensity” after shooting off about the last game these two played.
    If Duncan is that guy, so be it. It’s not that big of deal if it was going for nuggets, or brushing the batter back. Either way, I like that the Yankees finally have a guy with a pulse.

    Brad March 12, 2008, 6:05 pm
  • You mean like Pedroia throwing an elbow last year with, what, 20 games under his belt?

    A YF March 12, 2008, 6:06 pm
  • That’s what I’m saying, A.
    They have a TON of talent. If they could just get some decent pitching from someone other than Kazmir, and they’d be right in the mix, and if not, definitely spoiler.

    Anonymous March 12, 2008, 6:07 pm
  • You mean Joba didn’t show a pulse when he threw a heater at the Bearded Muff?

    A YF March 12, 2008, 6:07 pm
  • Sorry, ^me.
    Again. Duncan has to do something to stay besides play baseball to be on this roster. He had some nice moments, and big hits for them last year, so if you can expect a few of those, and a bodyguard to the rest of the team to boot, it’s a good idea to have him around. ha.

    Brad.. March 12, 2008, 6:10 pm
  • No. Not since he denied it to every extent possible.
    My guess is that Shelly won’t deny shit!
    Nor should he.

    Brad.. March 12, 2008, 6:12 pm
  • Although, I’m sure that the pulse was racing when you thought of that nickname for Youk. It’s really clever. No, really. It is.

    Brad.. March 12, 2008, 6:14 pm
  • The Rays do have decent pitching aside from Kazmir.
    James Shields, 2007: 1.11 WHIP, 5.11 K/BB.

    QuoSF March 12, 2008, 6:15 pm
  • Shelly said he was going for the glove. Of course he wasn’t. But I wouldn’t say that’s his role going forward, and it’s sorta dumb of him. If he got hurt, Ensberg takes his roster spot possibly to never get it back.

    A YF March 12, 2008, 6:16 pm
  • It would have been better had I called him the Bearded Clam. I screwed up the joke.

    A YF March 12, 2008, 6:17 pm
  • Eh, whatever. In either case, we know the intent was either malicious or labeled as “playing hard”. Or it was really just playing hard. I guess it just depends on what side of the fence you come down on with regards to who was involved, who was hurt, and what happens next.

    Brad.. March 12, 2008, 6:19 pm
  • There is a new left libertarian culture site published in Maine, Red Sox nation! http://www.liberalati.com

    Liberalati.com March 12, 2008, 6:46 pm
  • This is just hype created by ESPN and the other Red Sox media machines. We all know that when you travel outside of New England, it’s a republican nation. You never see kids in the midwest sporting donkey pins. They’re elephants all the way. We all know that ESPN is filled with donkeys, so they push this creation on the rest of the country, who are clearly already republicans.
    :)

    Brad.. March 12, 2008, 6:56 pm
  • “What we saw today is the definition of a dirty play. There’s no room for that in our game. It’s contemptible, it’s wrong, it’s borderline criminal. I can’t believe they did that.” – – Joe Maddon
    Maddon couldn’t be more right. I haven’t seen the video, only the still picture on LoHud, but even so from just seing the photo it looks as if Shelley went out of his way to make a statement. I hate when the football mentality trickles into baseball. Sure there are times you need to throw inside or even retaliate and keep people honest, but this was not one of those times. It’s unfortunate what happened to Cervelli, but it’s the game, preseason or otherwise. The only thing Duncan has done now is create an issue with a team in thier division and that is filled with care free young kids with nothing to lose. So now when Gomes or Bossman Junior pull a John McDonald on Jeter and he’s out for 6 months we will have Shelley to thank for that. Just another reason why I can’t wait for the luster to wear off his star. This is not hockey, we don’t need an enforcer.

    John - YF March 12, 2008, 8:22 pm
  • To get back on track…
    Why in the world would the Sox trade Crisp for Pagan? I think he is a great fit with the Mets, but for Angel Pagan? I think Theo is stuck between a rock and a hard place now. Other teams know that he wants to move Crisp so of course the offers are going to be awful like the Pagan deal or the Jason Marquis deal. On the flip side I don’t think Ellsbury and Crisp can start the season on the same team either. There were rumors that the Mets were going to move Sosa for Thames, even that is better then getting back another OF’r.

    John - YF March 12, 2008, 8:32 pm
  • Just saw the video of it, what a shame. Duncan is lucky that nobody got hurt.
    http://ballhype.com/video/yankees_rays_brawl_it_out/

    John - YF March 12, 2008, 8:43 pm
  • “borderline criminal”?
    That takes it too far. It’s something that used to happen with more regularity in the sport, and much less so now. It’s borderline baseball, if anything.
    I think trading Crisp is a mistake. You want him around if Ellsbury struggles or if there’s an injury. It’s a much further drop off to Moss and Carter.

    A YF March 12, 2008, 8:50 pm
  • OMG! His shoe went towards his thigh! That’s a far cry from the ‘legs towards his face’ Pete Abe was whining about. And again, these aren’t track spikes that can break the skin at a slight touch. They’re rubber baseball cleats.
    Taking out a catcher (running full bore, shoulder down, attempting to pretty much knock him out) is much, much more dangerous, to both players, than what Shelley did. Hell, throwing a ball 90mph at a player intentionally (the ‘proper’ retaliation) is much more dangerous than that play. ‘Spikes up’ is not ‘borderline criminal’, it’s actually baseball retaliation that has been used plenty of times beyond Ty Cobb.
    Maddon got caught in his hypocrisy, and looks every bit the blubbering fool. If he had apologized or even said word one regarding Cervelli, I don’t know if anything would have happened. But he and Zimmer had to be obnoxious and ‘hard-nosed’ about it, and that, more than anything really, is what caused this situation. Going out of your way to tackle a catcher, in Spring Training, is bad. Not even asking or caring about a player whose career may have been ruined, hell, even condoning the play, was more of an instigation than anything anyone else did.
    And it’s funny, but Shelley too is a guy fighting for a job. He may have just won it. But isn’t that what Maddon was saying?
    One thing is perfectly clear, however: these are not the Joe Torre let-it-slide ‘professional’ Yankees of 2002-2007. Girardi had his first test today, and he passed it with flying colors.

    AndrewYF March 12, 2008, 10:11 pm
  • Taking out a catcher (running full bore, shoulder down, attempting to pretty much knock him out) is much, much more dangerous, to both players, than what Shelley did.
    So is blocking the plate when you have no need to in a spring training game. I think the Yankee “outrage” about this whole incident is pretty pathetic — and Duncan’s “enforcement” is completely disproportional to the “crime,” which was actually a legitimate, legal play.

    Paul SF March 12, 2008, 10:24 pm
  • Actually, if you watch, he was a little ahead of the plate. There was a clear path for him to slide. He went STRAIGHT towards Cervelli. What did you want Cervelli to do, jump out of the way? Let the ball past him? I really think you should watch the play yourself. It was a much more physical and much more dangerous situation. Shelley slid early into second. He didn’t kick out with his spikes into Iwamura’s thigh, he kept his leg bent.
    The outrage comes from the lack of responsibility that Joe Maddon showed. Girardi was a little pissed after the play, and rightfully so, but I bet he was all the more pissed after Maddon and Zimmer’s obnoxious comments. They didn’t even mention Cervelli, which is pretty pathetic in its own right.

    AndrewYF March 12, 2008, 10:42 pm
  • This is a great video, which shows Duncan’s slide from a great angle, and also (near the end) shows that Cervelli was not even in the baseline, but in front (towards the pitcher’s mound) of home plate. Johnson rounds third and then heads straight for Cervelli, not even THINKING about sliding, even though the base was open for a slide around.

    AndrewYF March 12, 2008, 11:17 pm
  • AndrewYF March 12, 2008, 11:18 pm
  • “They’re rubber baseball cleats.”
    Nope sorry, check that photo again those are metal cleats. Get spiked a few times a let me know if you still think it’s not a big deal. People get their legs tore up all the time.
    “Taking out a catcher (running full bore, shoulder down, attempting to pretty much knock him out) is much, much more dangerous, to both players, than what Shelley did.”
    The young man was not trying to knock him out. He had a purpose he was trying to knock the ball out and score. What was Duncan’s purpose? Catchers expect to get hit on close plays at the plate. Second baseman do not expect to have a 200+ LB player slide spikes up on a play that was nowhere near close. On a double play ball middle infielders will brace/prepare themselves for a takeout slide, but in this situation that’s the last thing on Iwamura’s mind. What Duncan did was bush league and could have really injured an innocent, unprepared player.
    “‘Spikes up’ is not ‘borderline criminal’, it’s actually baseball retaliation that has been used plenty of times beyond Ty Cobb.”
    It’s a bush play because of it’s context in the game. Duncan was out by 5 feet at 2B and nobody expected him to go to 2nd. This was not a double play ball, that’s where spikes up can be considered a normal occurence. Duncan went out of his way to send a message, had he done it breaking up 2 I don’t think there would be any issue with it.
    “Going out of your way to tackle a catcher”
    He was trying to score and break up the ball from the catcher. He wasn’t trying to hurt him. You can’t expect baseball players to change the way they play based on the “Season” that’s how injuries occur. As he was trying to score and he saw the ball coming in he did what he has been tought to do. He didn’t stop to think, Hmmmm let me hook slide because this is preseason, that’s how injuries occur.
    “That takes it too far. It’s something that used to happen with more regularity in the sport, and much less so now. It’s borderline baseball, if anything.”
    Sure it happened all the time ON DOUBLE PLAY balls, not on these type of plays. He could have really injured a player for absolutely no reason!
    “One thing is perfectly clear, however: these are not the Joe Torre let-it-slide ‘professional’ Yankees of 2002-2007. Girardi had his first test today, and he passed it with flying colors.”
    It’s comments like that which make me ashamed to be a Yankees fan. That wasn’t baseball today that was a bush league move. Retaliation is going in hard on a double play or hitting Crawford in the numbers on a pitch, that’s the way it has always been. Today was Shelley Duncan being a goon and that’s not baseball. I hope you keep this in mind during the 18 games they play this season when Jeter or Cano get taken out.
    “that Cervelli was not even in the baseline”
    He cannot be in the baseline until the ball is either in his glove or until he is in the act of catching the ball. Watch the video again, he positions himself as all catchers should do in front of the plate and as the ball comes in he moves right into the line. There is nowhere for that kid to go.

    John - YF March 12, 2008, 11:52 pm
  • From Pete Abe over at LoHud:
    “The Yankees are a class team with class guys like Jeter, Pettitte, Posada and Rivera leading the way. Girardi was part of that group as a player and will be that way as a manager. You don’t motivate a $205 million roster by vowing revenge on the Tampa Bay Rays. This is baseball, not minor-league hockey. You think Girardi wants to sit in the dugout and make up silly excuses for what Shelley Duncan did? That’s not why he wanted the Yankees job.
    The Yankees don’t care if people pose for home runs or nonsense like that. They care about beating you to death with their relentless lineup then watching you flail weakly at Mo’s cutter in the ninth inning. They worry about winning, not sideshows.
    The idea that they “sent a message to all of baseball” is ridiculous. Having All-Stars at nearly every position and the best young pitching in the game is sending a message. Shelley Duncan sliding spikes high into second base is not what the Yankees are about.
    That Akinori Iwamura, they sure showed him. I’m sure A-Rod, Jeter and Mo are all psyched up now.”
    Well said.

    John - YF March 12, 2008, 11:58 pm
  • John, it’s pretty clear you had your mind made up on the spot. That’s fine, I did too. But the view of some fans is that the ‘class’ the Yankees show is bullshit, especially when the Yankees have led the sport in batters hit. What use is class when other teams can do whatever they want to you with no fear of any retaliation? Remember the A-Rod and Toronto incident? Toronto pitchers threw at him – TWICE – and it led to him having a knee injury because of which he missed a few games.
    Yankee class is what led to the Yankees refusing to bunt on a gimped Schilling. Class is what led to Jeter and Soriano being sent to the hospital on back-to-back Pedro beanings. If you want that to continue, just so the Yankees can continue to lose their players with style, well, that’s fine. Me, if it leads to the Yankees being more successful and teams not throwing at Yankee batters, I’d rather the Yankees be the dirtiest team in the league.
    These past few days, Johnson took out an unsuspecting Yankee catcher in a meaningless spring training game and fractured the catcher’s wrist, potentially derailing his young career. Girardi, rightly, speaks out about the play being unnecessary (which most people pretty much agree), and Maddon and Zimmer unfortunately have the nerve to not even feel bad for the play. Players should not tackle catchers in meaningless spring training games. It’s pretty telling when the only players who have actually done it, are Devil Rays. Goes to show that they are the team that has it wrong. You know what’s ‘just not done’ in the sport? Taking out catchers in Spring Training games. Girardi understood this and was rightly pissed. Maddon started, and escalated the issue by not complying with the ‘accepted’ baseball way. The Yankees responded in kind, and if Tampa Bay is smart, that’s where it ends. My guess is that Maddon is not smart. It’s up to him whether or not to ‘play the game the right way’ from now on. Hopefully he’s learned his lesson.
    No, this would not have been as big an issue had Cervelli not been hurt. But guess what? He did, on a completely and utterly unnecessary take-out in spring training that NO ONE does. That’s the point. In 20 years of catching and plays at the plate in Spring Training, Girardi has never, ever been bowled over. So, yeah, that’s not ‘acceptable’ baseball either.
    And it’s not just the incident today, it’s a broader general message. Unlike Torre, Girardi isn’t going to throw his own players under the bus in deference to some made-up ‘Yankee class’. The Yankees aren’t going to take crap laying down, letting teams do whatever they want to them, however they like to do it. That is precisely what leads to pitchers harming Yankee players with abandon.
    Lastly, we’re in pretty different schools of thought, in this situation. That’s okay. But please don’t be a high-horse sanctimonious ass and be ‘ashamed’ of my opinions. That’s pretty low.

    AndrewYF March 13, 2008, 12:59 am
  • so…um, yah. no more coco commercials for Hood or RSN this year……….so there’s that.

    sf rod March 13, 2008, 5:08 am
  • Gotta say I’m more with Andrew here, especially because it seems to be the Rays instigating things with other teams. Still, it’s interesting to me that the closest the Yanks came to a “dirty” play last year was the Ha! incident. And that was hilarious! That the Jays just had to retaliate shows how silly this game can get at times. Still, looking at the replay, Cervelli was hurt on a meaningless play in a meaningless game. That’s the real shame here.

    A YF March 13, 2008, 5:43 am
  • Here’s a better angle of the slide:
    http://blog.nj.com/ledgeryankees/2008/03/you_make_the_call.html
    That seems fine to me. I’ll trade you Cano getting that treatment with Cervelli’s broken wrist. And I can’t see how any one would disagree. Iwamura got a scratch, maybe.

    A YF March 13, 2008, 5:49 am
  • It absolutely amazes me that people like AndrewYF and others can watch those two videos and feel that Duncan was just playing hard nosed baseball and Cerveli was not blocking the plate.
    Duncan’s play, now after seeing it, was 100% dirty, dirty, dirty, there is NO OTHER way to view it, unless you refuse to take off your Yankee colored glasses.
    Johnson’s play was clean and part of baseball, Cervelli was blocking the plate, period.

    LocklandSF March 13, 2008, 9:07 am
  • What I do like about this is that, for the most part, Yankee fans are split right down the middle on this.

    LocklandSF March 13, 2008, 9:08 am
  • The catcher take-out in spring training argument could go all day I think. I am 50-50 on it. It’s always bad when someone gets injured but I think some YFs are letting it cloud their judgment, injuries happen. But if that play happened in the regular season no-one would bat an eye-lid.
    The Duncan play on the other hand is bush league and dirty no matter how you slice it and no matter what significance the game had, spring training just makes it worse. Sure a broken wrist is worse than a spike on the thigh, but that’s far from the point.
    The play was directly in front of him (the throw came from behind third base) and he was out by a long way, so he knew he was dead in the water, so no excuses at all.
    Read the game write-up on LoHud:
    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/03/12/yankees-rays-the-live-blog/
    “Shelley Duncan (of course) started the top of the second with a single. He tried to go to second as the ball rolled behind third base and was out by five feet. Duncan slid in with his spikes exceedingly high at Akinori Iwamura and was tagged out. He was immediately ejected.”
    and later
    “UPDATE: Just to make it clear, Duncan slid in with his right spike high in the air. Whether you think it was right or not is your call, but that’s what he did.”
    (Although it was his left spike not right..)
    That pretty much tells the story.

    Dan March 13, 2008, 9:22 am
  • “Sure a broken wrist is worse than a spike on the thigh, but that’s far from the point.”
    Actually, that’s exactly the point. A collision at home plate is very dangerous. It always has been. A spike in the leg is never dangerous.
    Just to show how perceptions change based on risks:
    A fastball in the shoulder or back is considered appropriate retaliation. That same fastball in the head (with Pedro pointing) is considered dirty and deadly. It’s a difference of six inches.

    A YF March 13, 2008, 9:29 am
  • “A spike in the leg is never dangerous.”
    Are you on crack A YF?

    LocklandSF March 13, 2008, 9:33 am
  • The point is how it happened.
    What if Cervelli hadnt been injured from the hit? and what if Duncan had been a little less dirty and actually hit him on the knee rather than the thigh and did some real damage?
    And how come Johnson (guy who hit the catcher) had no case to answer to the umps or the league, but Duncan was tossed immediately and might face suspension?

    Dan March 13, 2008, 9:39 am
  • A spike in the leg is never dangerous.
    What a ludicrous statement.

    Paul SF March 13, 2008, 9:40 am
  • Dan, it’s all the anti-Yankee bias in baseball of course. The umps, the league, the press, the CIA, the FBI, everyone is out to get the Yankees, it’s one giant conspiracy. I thought everyone knew that.

    LocklandSF March 13, 2008, 9:50 am
  • Oh I’m sorry, you know, a case of flesh eating bacteria aside. ;)

    A YF March 13, 2008, 9:50 am
  • Don’t forget ESPN, Lockland. I mean, even Hank knows they hate the Yankees!

    Paul SF March 13, 2008, 9:53 am
  • Please with the conspiracy nonsense. The umps were warned before the game because of a phone call by their GM. Phillips got tossed for a pitch his catcher caught even as he’s fighting for a bullpen slot. It’s was overreaction day and Gomes got tossed for the most egregious act.
    Meanwhile, in Soxland the “bitching” has just begun. But, shhhhhh, don’t call it “bitching” cause they’re going to man up! ;)
    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1079749&srvc=sports&position=0

    A YF March 13, 2008, 9:55 am
  • A YF, I just read that article and I didn’t read a single quote that even came close to bitching, what are you talking about?

    LocklandSF March 13, 2008, 10:01 am
  • What would you say, in your own words, was the reason for Duncan being tossed?

    Dan March 13, 2008, 10:01 am
  • “One thing is perfectly clear, however: these are not the Joe Torre let-it-slide ‘professional’ Yankees of 2002-2007. Girardi had his first test today, and he passed it with flying colors.”
    I should have been more clear, comments like that make ashamed to be a baseball fan. What Duncan did is not of baseball and never has been. He turned a single into a double solely to try and send a message. There are acceptable ways to send messages and that was not one of them. You can call me an ass all you’d like, but this game has been around for a long time and it’s traditions and acceptable practices preceed all of us. What was done yesterday wasn’t hard nosed or gritty, it was stupid. If the shoe was on the other foot you would be saying the same thing. Again it’s a shame that Cervelli got hurt but that play was a normal play that happened in the flow of the game. Watch that Duncan play Longoria is SHOCKED that he is trying for 2, lollipops it over to Iwamura and STILL throws him out by 5-7 feet!
    “A spike in the leg is never dangerous.”
    Wow.

    John - YF March 13, 2008, 10:31 am
  • I’m sorry. I should have said: “Oh. My. God! A spike in the leg! That’s criminal!” :)

    A YF March 13, 2008, 10:52 am
  • The spike to the leg was not criminal, what Duncan did was. He could severely injured a player on a nonsense play. You are over simplyfying it down to a spike. Much more could have happened then get spiked.
    Just curious A YF have you ever been spiked?

    John - YF March 13, 2008, 10:57 am
  • re. the herald article, it seems that the writer is doing the “bitching” for the sox…saying what they might be thinking, but are too politically correct to say it out loud…

    dc March 13, 2008, 11:03 am
  • Not only have I been spiked, as a 2B, I did my fair share of spiking. It was a fun little game within the game. The amount of force conveyed in spiking someone is minimal – nothing like the torque in a rolling slide. I’ve practiced martial arts for eight years since HS baseball and even then I couldn’t take out someone’s knee with a kick if I tried. A spike is barely a step up from a hard tag.
    Sure, Shelly could have waited for a better moment, but it’s not a big deal. It’s far more minor than the way Gomes reacted (running in from RF no less) and Maddon’s BS.
    dc, The writer is conveying what the team and players have been told not to. I think Francona’s quotes are hilarious. He wants to “bitch” really badly, and then spins it around to how they just have to deal with it (even as they leave their top two pitchers home). In any case, that result is karma for the original crime by the GM.

    A YF March 13, 2008, 11:43 am
  • “The amount of force conveyed in spiking someone is minimal – nothing like the torque in a rolling slide.”
    1- You can’t roll slide in HS baseball.
    2- Any player full speed into 2nd Base with metal spikes is hardly “minimal.”

    John - YF March 13, 2008, 12:02 pm
  • “…full speed…”
    that’s where we disagree john…i didn’t think duncan was full speed at all…then again he ain’t the fastest runner i’ve seen either…speed is relevant, but moreso the intent, with spikes exposed, is what i object to…
    by the way…which thread are we debating this under?…i posted under the other one…

    dc March 13, 2008, 12:15 pm
  • You are obviously convinced it’s ok, but I am pretty certain you are in the minority. You won’t find many baseball people defending that slide.
    “A spike is barely a step up from a hard tag.”
    If you are tagging someone by running straight towards them with your arm outstretched and are using metal cleats on your glove then yes, it’s exactly the same.

    Dan March 13, 2008, 12:15 pm
  • Right, we were never allowed to roll slide for exactly the risk of massive injury.I was comparing injury potential from alternatives and spikes high is very far down the list. As a player I was more worried about jamming my hand on a base. But spikes up was part of the game and the injury sustained was minimal. Every season, I had puncture marks on my shins and calves, but the ankle was the worst. Still, you grin and bear it and the next time through on a stolen base or play, you try to give as good as you got. But I’ve never see anyone get a knee taken out because a slide was spikes up (or down for that matter). It was a fun part of the game!
    Here from waswatching.com:
    Game 2 of the 1977 ALCS – and it’s the top of the 6th inning.
    Frank White whiffs to start the frame for the Royals and that’s followed by a Freddie Patek double. The next batter, Hal McRae walks – putting runners on first and second with one out.
    Next, George Brett grounds a ball to Graig Nettles who fields it and throws to second, forcing McRae- where Willie Randolph attempts to turn a double play. However, McRae knocks Randolph into what seems like short left field with a nasty take-out “slide” and Patek rounds third and scores. This tied the game at two runs apiece. Al Cowens later flies out to center to end the inning.
    In the bottom of the 6th, Graig Nettles goes down swinging as the lead-off batter for the Yankees. Thurman Munson then singles to center. After a Reggie Jackson pop-up to second, Lou Piniella singles to center. On the hit, Munson rounds second and slides late, and hard, with his spikes high, into third – where George Brett was covering the bag.
    Afterwards, Munson said “I slid late just to let him know I was there. If I’d have wanted to hit him, I would have hit him. My argument isn’t with George Brett. The guy I want to get is McRae. He better stay away from me. I told him so. He’s been trying to hurt people for eight years.”

    A YF March 13, 2008, 12:18 pm
  • By the way, when did the game become pussified? The feigned machismo (see Gomes and Maddon) is just plain silly. Give me players like Munson any day of the week and twice in doubleheaders. Fisk, though, now he was a kitty cat ;)

    A YF March 13, 2008, 12:22 pm
  • about the bitching: of couse the sox want to…wakefield nearly slipped up too, but caught himself…epstein’s ill-advised comments about mussina pre-empted their ability to say what they really think about this overhyped disruption to the team’s routine…i’m sure theo has issued instructions to the entire group to keep their mouths shut and pretend to enjoy the diversion…it’s also eliminated it [the trip] as a valid excuse [should the sox need one] for getting off to a bad start…

    dc March 13, 2008, 12:22 pm
  • With that said, Billy Crystal is DH’ing and batting leadoff today.

    A YF March 13, 2008, 12:24 pm
  • good, he can fill in for shelly while he serves his suspension…

    dc March 13, 2008, 1:02 pm

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