Ace

We SFs owe many thanks for Brian Cashman’s (indefensible?) release of a very solid non arb-eligible pitcher with a non-baseball-related injury making the Major League minimum.

He’s like the anti-Russell Martin! Except for the fact that his injury wasn’t baseball-related and he would only have pulled down 0.3% of the entire team payroll. But whatever.

27 comments… add one

  • Aceves’ BABIP against this year is a crazy-low .179, so that’s a sign of his overachievement. However, Aceves’ career BABIP against is .231 over 70 appearances and 602 plate appearances against. Is this a Chien-Ming Wang situation again? Is he just serially lucky or does his pitching style lend itself to this?
    Something to chew on.

    SF May 26, 2011, 4:55 pm
  • If you want something else to chew on-
    Aceves still had options left. The Yankees could have simply demoted him to the minors.
    They released him instead.

    Djt2445 May 26, 2011, 5:08 pm
  • He would have been on the 40 man roster, but that’s still such a weird way to go with a guy who actually had some history of being more than decent.

    SF May 26, 2011, 5:13 pm
  • Watching Aceves pitch today, I can’t help but think he’s lucky. He should have been touched for at least three or four runs. Which is fine. He doesn’t need to have an ERA below 2.00 to be successful; he just needs to be better than the typical fourth or fifth starter. If he had given up four runs in six innings, I still would have been quite pleased.

    Paul SF May 26, 2011, 5:20 pm
  • Watching Aceves pitch today, I can’t help but think he’s lucky.
    He is quite clearly lucky. But the odd thing is that, like Wang, he has always been lucky. Why? Just good luck?

    SF May 26, 2011, 5:32 pm
  • Yup, and Brian Cashman would like to personally thank the Boston medical staff for red-flagging an obviously healthy young catcher.
    By the way, since when is a hernia a non-baseball injury? Holy misrepresentation of facts, batman!
    Good on the Sox medical staff for clearing Aceves for play. Almost makes up for 5% of their hideous errors on almost everything else the past 2 years.

    AndrewYF May 26, 2011, 6:28 pm
  • Broken clavicle from bike riding was why the Yanks cut him loose, but have it your way.
    You are so biased it is absurd.

    SF May 26, 2011, 6:49 pm
  • Rather, you are so unaware of how biased you are it is absurd.
    I am biased, but can admit it.

    SF May 26, 2011, 6:51 pm
  • And Andrew, did the Sox have to assess Gonzalez’ shoulder or not?

    SF May 26, 2011, 6:52 pm
  • Where does Aceves fit in for the Sox if Lackey returns? I imagine they bump him back to the bullpen if they feel he can be more reliable than Wakefield in that role.
    He’s sure to implode at some point, there’s no way he can sustain this. But is he Aaron Small or something better? His career numbers say he’s something better. I wonder what they do with him in a few weeks if he continues to do even half-decently.

    SF May 26, 2011, 7:22 pm
  • This is the franchise that defended Manny Ramirez until he started quitting on the field and physically abusing staff. I don’t think trying to explain efforts to discipline a player’s behavior will be easily understood.
    As to the central point of whether Cash made a mistake, if Aceves is a solid starter for even as little as 2 months or so of the season, then I’d be absolutely ready to say Cashman made a mistake by not sending him down rather than cutting him to see if that fixed the attitude issues. See how easy that was SF?
    Of course, comparing this to Martin, who is not only an every day player who has played much more a proportion of the season than Aceves has as a starter, and who is in the running for best at his position in the league over that 2-month period, is pretty weak anyway. But who can blame you for trying.

    IronHorse (YF) May 26, 2011, 7:27 pm
  • The comparison to Martin is not about equivalency. The fact is that Cashman let loose a guy who had decent numbers AND options, and was making nothing.
    Why shouldn’t he have kept him? Because of his attitude? Seriously? Couldn’t they have let him work on his attitude in Scranton?
    The double standards from you guys are glaring. This one just ices it. If not signing Martin was indefensible (not my words) then what was cutting Aceves when he literally cost the Yanks 0.3% of their payroll and he had options? Why? His “attitude”? Seriously?
    And enough with the holier-than-thou crap, coming from the franchise of a bat-throwing steroidal perjurer. Remember, that all came after he left Boston!

    SF May 26, 2011, 7:35 pm
  • The Manny coomment was meant purely to get your goat SF in response to a post you yourself called “snarky”. And it accomplished its intent. Of course I know that both franchises – being part of a results-oriented entertainment industry – operate in glass houses when it comes to behavior, discipline, etc. Calm down.
    As for double standards, I believe the 2nd para of my comment is exactly not that. It draws direct equivalency between the two cases and explains honestly at what point I’d be prepared to say Cashman erred. And I think that scenario – 2 months of solid performance from aceves, even if nowhere near as superb as Martin’s relative to others at his position – is actually quite likely. The real difference here is that you fought tooth and nail to avoid saying theo made any error on martin.

    IronHorse (YF) May 26, 2011, 7:44 pm
  • What? No I haven’t said that. Clearly the better player has been Martin. In those terms he made a “mistake”. But that is a vacuum view. The reality is more complicated than that.
    My biggest issue with the Martin thing has been the terming of the Sox’ decision “indefensible”. It has not been about denying the facts of the on-field play, but rather the complete ignoring of the fact that there are real circumstances and moving parts that make the world go around, about understanding or at least considering the facts on the ground. I hate black and white assessments. The world is gray.
    Most sincerely, I do aak why the Yankees couldn’t stash Aceves in Scranton? Honestly, why not? If it was his attitude then that’s a dubious explanation. It could have just been a mistake, an easy enough charge to throw at an opposing GM but not at one’s own. We have no problems critiquing Theo (he’s made numerous mistakes), but some here, not you, can’t stomach looking at their own similarly. The comment about the Sox’ medical staff says it all. Blinders are on.

    SF May 26, 2011, 7:53 pm
  • I love it. SF makes a post specifically designed to goad Yankee fans into a response. Once we respond with similar antagonism, we instantly get blasted for being ‘biased’ and ‘hypocritical’. Good one, SF. You got us!
    This version of SF is getting far too close for my liking to the ‘friend’ we frequently have visit this site.

    AndrewYF May 26, 2011, 7:58 pm
  • Incidentally, I never said anything about the martin thing being “indefensible” nor did I defend that position. I simply wrote a post noting that it was one case – perhaps the only case – where cashman seemed to have bested theo, judged from what I acknoweledged was a pretty early stage of the season. And as for aceves and whether cashman erred, we’d have to compare aceves’ performance to that of the options cash took (nova/garcia/colon). Again, I think over a couple months it is certainly possible – perhaps even likely – that aceves will outperform one or more of thise guys. And if so, cashman will have made a mistake in my view. Not an indefensible one. But a mistake nonetheless.

    IronHorse (YF) May 26, 2011, 8:00 pm
  • Peace SF. And sorry for the Manny crack. Old habits die hard.
    Plus, your team is scoring multiple touchdowns every night while allowing zilch. It is pretty disgusting. Enjoy.

    IronHorse (YF) May 26, 2011, 8:04 pm
  • S for your sincere question re: Aceves and Scranton, the mistake Cashman may have made (which again I think can’t really be judges even that without some more time under his starter-belt AND a comparison of his performance to the starters Cash took) is that he might not have seen Aceves as a viable starter at all, in which case he may have simply judged him relative to other bullpen arms which the Yanks already had in fair abundance (Mo, Joba, Robertson) even before his bosses went shopping for Soriano.
    I do think in the world of grey you site that the discipline/attitude issues might have just been more severe or troublesome than any of us know and he wanted nothing more to do with him, which is a way not so much to send a message to aceves, but to the rest of the players remaining on the team re: how you’re expected to act. None of us know the depth or severity of those issues.

    IronHorse (YF) May 26, 2011, 8:14 pm
  • IH: you weren’t the one who called it “indefensible”, Andrew did. I felt it an extreme position and yes, this post was antagonistic. So apologies for letting the moment get the best of me Andrew. I still find it an absolutely extreme position, and the point has been made that whether or not any of these moves are mistakes or worse will take real time to determine. Unless your name ends in “ackey”.

    SF May 26, 2011, 8:37 pm
  • Or “oriano”. Though that one’s not on Cash per se, as he’ll be the first to tell you.

    IronHorse (YF) May 26, 2011, 8:41 pm
  • I apologize for all this SF. I don’t enjoy being mean, nasty and antagonistic. I think I’m just going to not comment any more on the Martin issue. It’s clear I, for whatever dumb reason, have strong feelings about it, and everyone knows those feelings by now.

    AndrewYF May 27, 2011, 4:48 am
  • This thread was intentionally antagonistic. It’s pretty silly to post it and then be surprised when YFs react defensively to it. I’ll leave it at that.
    Carl Crawford’s OPS went from .542 to .645 in the last two games alone. Crazy.

    Atheose - SF May 27, 2011, 7:51 am
  • “…And enough with the holier-than-thou crap, coming from the franchise of a bat-throwing steroidal perjurer. Remember, that all came after he left Boston!…”
    leopards don’t change their spots sf…roger didn’t suddenly become a dickhead after he got to new york…he always had that reputation…
    agree with andrew, we’ve beat the martin issue into submission…aceves?…i dunno, i would have tried to keep the guy, but who knows what was going on behind the scenes, and they did need to make roster room for other pitching moves, as IH already mentioned…what i find increasingly annoying and tiresome is the discussion of defending our respective gm’s…we’ve got plenty of bad-move dirt on both of these guys…don’t forget, they don’t make these decisions in a vacuum, they consult with other experts, though the buck stops with them, with the exception of owner interference in the soriano case…in the martin case theo acted on advice he got from the med team…in the ace case, cashman acted on advice he [probably] got from the pitching coach, girardi, who knows who else…with hughes out, it might have been nice to have this guy as an option, but to characterize this as a screw-up by cashman as some kind of touche for the martin/theo discussion is a big reach…so, i’ve probably softened a bit on thinking that theo screwed up with martin…i really think the sox believe salty is the future with tek mentoring him, so why take a chance on a guy you can’t be 100% sure is healthy…the sox fo and fans have coveted salty [and teagarden...remember that dude?], somewhat irrationally but that’s ok, for some time now, and they finally got him…why would theo then want to bring in another guy?…they didn’t need 3 catchers

    dc May 27, 2011, 7:54 am
  • Yeah, we’re all good. I was just getting tired of the Martin situation and the crapping on Theo after just a month or two and lost myself in the Ace excellence. All apologies.

    SF May 27, 2011, 8:19 am
  • group hug

    dc May 27, 2011, 8:25 am
  • “Carl Crawford’s OPS went from .542 to .645 in the last two games alone.”
    Hopefully Tito will leave him in the 6 slot for a while and see if he can keep hitting.

    BillsBurgSF May 27, 2011, 8:36 am
  • “We SFs owe many thanks for Brian Cashman’s (indefensible?) release of a very solid non arb-eligible pitcher with a non-baseball-related injury making the Major League minimum.”
    Cashman cleared up this issue some time back. First off it was more than the surgery he had to repair his broken clavicle it was the fact that he missed most of 2010 with a back injury. Cashman said in an interview with TMKS that he couldn’t resign Ace more or less because he wasn’t sure when he was going to pitch and he wanted everyone to compete in Spring Training, etc…Add to that the uncertainty of his back (not his clavicle). Now does that justify not signing him, who knows. I couldn’t care less, I want long term solutions not band aids and that’s exactly what Ace is a band aid. (For the record I’ve said I do not like having Colon and Garcia in the rotation, so no I am not a hypocrite). The Sox have taken chances before on injured pitchers (Penny, Smoltz, etc…) this one just happened to work out in their favor.
    The whole Martin thing is getting old. Isn’t Salty the best hitting catcher in American League cities that start with the letter B over the past 13 days, 2 hours and 36 minutes? There has to be a stat that can prove that, right? ;)

    John - YF May 27, 2011, 8:56 am

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