Another Day In Tradesville

So here’s what we know this morning. Or what we think we know. Or what others think they know. Or what others wish they think they know. Or… *take the pills, Tiger*

  • The Red Sox are in discussions with Florida and Pittsburgh on a potential megadeal that would leave Manny Ramirez in Florida, one or two prospects in either or both Florida and Pittsburgh and bring at least Jason Bay to Boston.
  • Those talks have been categorized as everything from not likely to succeed (Gordon Edes) to all but complete (Palm Beach Post).
  • This morning, they’re being seen as having a roughly 50-50 chance of completion, according to Jayson Stark. The deal would be Bay to Boston, Jeremy Hermida and prospects to Pittsburgh, Manny and John Grabow to Florida (this is a bit of a change).
  • A lot of people think the Pirates are holding this up, insisting on either or both hot-shot Marlins prospects Ryan Tucker and Mike Stanton. Florida is insistent that Stanton is off the table, but Tucker might be in play.
  • The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette confirms Grabow to the Marlins, not the Red Sox, and says the Pirates "are open-minded on both fronts, the Boston-Florida one as well as Tampa, and there is no deal, tentative or otherwise, in either direction."
  • Heyman and Rosenthal haven’t updated yet — probably because they’re working on the other big deal of the morning: Ken Griffey Jr. to the White Sox.
  • The Boston Globe has been getting its butt handed to them for the last 24 hours. Maybe Edes’ head isn’t in the game on this, his final day with the Globe, but within hours of posting this slightly condescending "no story here" blog entry, he was forced to react to the breaking reports out of every other media market with interest in this story. The Herald hasn’t really been much better. The usual Sox sources seem to be pretty buttoned down on this one. Read into it what you will.

So, with all that sorted out, I think you’re caught up (unless something else has happened since I started this post). Feel free to comment here this morning on all trade rumors and possibilities…

201 comments… add one

  • As someone pointed out in an earlier thread, the Herald quotes a Sox source as saying there’s a “less than 50-50 chance.” The Globe is playing up division among th FO and ownership about whether it’s wise to trade Manny.
    To which I reply: “For Jason Bay? Duh!”

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 10:43 am
  • the marlins got their man!
    (arthur rhodes.)

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 10:49 am
  • the marlins got their man!
    (arthur rhodes.)

    I don’t get it.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 10:51 am
  • the marlins completed a trade, but for arthur rhodes, as opposed to manny ramirez, which is not the trade everyone is anticipating.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 10:52 am
  • Kind of trade related, though there was a thread yesterday, but I wonder if the Angels would run less with Pudge back there.. hopefully!

    Lar July 31, 2008, 10:57 am
  • Rhodes is still playing baseball?
    Jeez. Who still pays this guy to pitch?

    Brad July 31, 2008, 10:57 am
  • YFiB – I think the folks that follow the Mariners kind of were looking at that scenario.
    Apparently the sox are looking at Putz (which I wouldn’t be against). They can have Hansen!
    Griffey to the White Sox? that one no one saw coming (of course he has to approve it – then ChiSox need to figure out where to play him)

    dw (sf) July 31, 2008, 10:58 am
  • He actually had a pretty decent season so far. Just goes to show you Brad you throw with the left wing, throw strikes and there will always be a home for you.

    John - YF July 31, 2008, 10:59 am
  • i meant those at this site, dw, but yes, i see what you’re saying.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 10:59 am
  • olney says not to expect washburn to be traded to the yankees before the deadline:
    http://tinyurl.com/5hf4mr

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 11:01 am
  • Washburn? Wow, the Yankees are getting small pieces everywhere.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 11:05 am
  • Again, NY getting better by not getting Washedup.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 11:05 am
  • Getting Washburn, and his insane salary, is like having Lugo on your team. He’s just there. Not really contributing on an important level in any way shape or form.
    That’s the deal I wanted them to make!

    Brad July 31, 2008, 11:06 am
  • Oops YFiB, I didn’t see the “not” in that statement.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 11:07 am
  • rosenthal says that talks are still progressing, there’s an agreement on the major league guys to be shipped, but prospects are tying things up:
    http://tinyurl.com/62komg

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 11:17 am
  • oh… the above is in reference to the manny trade talks.
    sorry.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 11:19 am
  • Current Manny for Spring Training Manny, straight up!!

    LocklandSF July 31, 2008, 11:24 am
  • rosenthal also says that griffey is officially going to chicago now, but i still haven’t seen who the reds are getting:
    http://tinyurl.com/64yfq6

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 11:28 am
  • “To which I reply: “For Jason Bay? Duh!””
    Statheads are best kept in a cool, isolated container where their misrepresentations of true player values are not heard.

    Dirty Water July 31, 2008, 11:29 am
  • tough decision for yanks fans. if the deal isn’t made by boston, then bay seems likely headed to TB, which would make the Rays that much harder to catch. Yet, this deal seems to be a decent one for the Sox. Not sure what I’m rooting for.

    Nick-YF July 31, 2008, 11:30 am
  • at the same time, this yanks fan is ready to see manny gone, never to torment the yanks again, so I guess I’m rooting for this deal.
    It won’t happen because it never does.

    Nick-YF July 31, 2008, 11:32 am
  • i would rather have the yankees face bay than ramirez in the sox lineup. and if bay ends up in tampa, so be it.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 11:34 am
  • although it looks like the rays are going after adam dunn:
    http://tinyurl.com/5qzel6
    that would be scary.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 11:38 am
  • I miss the days when Tampa was a stupid organization.

    Nick-YF July 31, 2008, 11:40 am
  • I like Adam Dunn, I do, but he scares me a heck of a lot less than Bay.

    John - YF July 31, 2008, 11:43 am
  • Dunn on the Rays? That certainly adds a lot more pop to their lineup. Gulp.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 11:48 am
  • Not much word on the trade this morning at all, and less than four hours to go. Makes me think something’s actually happening…

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 12:12 pm
  • No kidding, silence is usually more indicative of progress than lots of chatter. That’s how it was with the last moments of the Santana deal, at least.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 12:16 pm
  • “I miss the days when Tampa was a stupid organization.”
    Priceless.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 12:17 pm
  • Breaking news…
    http://tinyurl.com/2o2wrb

    LocklandSF July 31, 2008, 12:28 pm
  • Lockland, I don’t see how the fact that Rick Astley is never going to give me up (or let me down) is breaking news. I’ve known this all my life!

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 12:31 pm
  • Jon Heyman says Manny has approved a trade to the Marlins — just in case.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 12:41 pm
  • And Rosenthal says the one holdup is the prospect the Pirates want from the Sox.
    But that’s a key holdup, imo.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 12:47 pm
  • I am unclear as to why Will Carroll still has any credibility on trade reporting. “It was on the Commissioner’s desk for approval”? Please.

    SF July 31, 2008, 12:51 pm
  • I just wonder how much the dynamic of Manny’s annual trade request followed by shoulders being shrugged and lights-out hitting changes with Boras as his agent….

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2008, 12:58 pm
  • ESPN’s blog reporting the Rays have been informed that Jason Bay is “likely to go somewhere else,” and they are no longer pursuing Dunn.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 12:58 pm
  • what the heck does this mean?
    “If he’s not traded by 4 p.m. today, there’s a 1 percent chance that he finishes the year with the Red Sox. This has gotten so ugly,” said Olney.
    ( http://tinyurl.com/5kgnyp )
    are they going to have manny whacked?

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 1:06 pm
  • i don’t get the percentages:
    how could a trade be 50/50?….isn’t it all or nothing?…the trade happens or it doesn’t…isn’t that 100/0?…what would move a trade from 50/50 to say 75/25?…
    what does a 1 percent chance he finishes with the sox?…huh? …what factors make up the 1 percent?…help…math whizzes?, paul?, anyone?

    dc July 31, 2008, 1:19 pm
  • He could still be released on waivers after the deadline… right?

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 1:20 pm
  • dc, they mean there’s a 50% chance the trade does not occur, and a 50% chance it DOES occur. The likelihood of Manny going to the Marlins is a coinflip, essentially.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 1:22 pm
  • my guess is that they find him floating in the charles or they go all jimmy hoffa and have him buried beneath the new stadium.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 1:23 pm
  • our two teams are supposedly trying to outbid each other for scott eyre.
    http://tinyurl.com/5lxb6f
    i was going to question why the yankees would be interested, but i will just sit back and trust mr. cashman.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 1:28 pm
  • It’s hilarous that Scott Eyre got an MVP vote in 2005.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 1:30 pm
  • wow. is his mom in the BBWAA?

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 1:33 pm
  • so now they are reporting the manny deal is dead. If he doesnt get moved is this the best thing that could happen from a YF perspective? Does he half-ass it the rest of the year or move on and start playing hard?

    Sam-YF July 31, 2008, 1:38 pm
  • Just up over at ESPN…
    Blame game over Manny
    Posted by Jayson Stark
    Yet another official with one of these three teams says the Manny-Bay deal is dead. In the aftermath, the teams involved seem unsure of what happened. The Pirates are blaming the Marlins. The Marlins are blaming the Pirates. And the Red Sox aren’t too happy with either of them.

    stuck working July 31, 2008, 1:39 pm
  • thanks atheose…i understood the logic of attempt to assign a probability value, but a coinflip reference suggests it’s being left up to chance…50/50 suggests to me anyway a lack of confidence that it will happen, and there are significant factors to overcome…it would be interesting to know what the factors against the trade happening are exactly…i’ve heard that they’re haggling over prospects, but either a team parts with an acceptable prospect or they don’t…most teams already know a lot about the other teams’ prospects so there shouldn’t be any surprises…i don’t know, i started out joking about this, but now i’m probably giving myself a pointless headache

    dc July 31, 2008, 1:44 pm
  • “…the teams involved seem unsure of what happened…”
    how could the teams not know what happened?…wtf
    by the way, update the probability to 0 percent chance, although it’s not 4:00 yet…

    dc July 31, 2008, 1:49 pm
  • I can understand the Pirates being unhappy (losing Bay and gaining Hermida + prospects isn’t appetizing) but the Marlins should have been happy with the deal. Sigh.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 1:50 pm
  • while i have less than nothing upon which to base this, but i’d put my money on manny being traded.
    not much money, but some change maybe.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 1:51 pm
  • There once was a player named Manny
    Who kept falling down on his fanny
    He made a big scene
    They all called him mean
    He’ll find peace somewhere down in Miami

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 1:52 pm
  • The Jays are apparently making a push for Jason Bay now. The last thing we need is a FOURTH team in the AL East race.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 1:55 pm
  • funny stuff atheose…i’ll be cracking up the rest of the day over that one…

    dc July 31, 2008, 1:56 pm
  • On WFAN they just said that the Pitts Post-Gazette reported that the Pirates have agreed to the prospects they were offered (they didn’t report who those prospects were) and that all that is left is for the Marlins and Sox to agree on the money (that the Sox offered $7 mill and Florida wants $9 mill.
    Dont’ know how reliable the PPG is or the WFAn reporting of the PPG, but taht doesn’t sound like a cooling off to me if it is accurate – just the opposite.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 1:57 pm
  • If they’re squabbling over 2 mil then Loria is one cheap SOB.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 2:10 pm
  • Ha, newsflash, Ath.

    stuck working July 31, 2008, 2:11 pm
  • ESPN says “all but dead”. Same sources as Will Carroll?
    I hate trade deadline reporting, it’s beyond ridiculous. Nobody should believe a f*cking thing that comes out of these outlets.
    Sorry for the cynicism.

    SF July 31, 2008, 2:12 pm
  • looks like the Bay to the Rays talks could be heating up now. That would be a blow to us both.

    Sam-YF July 31, 2008, 2:16 pm
  • Totally agree Ath. If this thing works the Marlins get an ubelievable deal – a Manny rental for which the bulk of rent is paid by the Sox anyway, after which they would presumably offer Manny arbitration with the pre-agreement that he would turn it down (does he want to hang out in Florida past 2008?) and thus land a first round draft pick to further stock a well-stocked farm system. And for all this they give up Hermida.
    Being in NY while this is going on is funny – Mets fans are having cows that their division rivals, who just took first place from them, might land Manny without having to pay much for him and Yanks fans are pleased as could be if they never have to see Manny in a RS uniform again.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 2:17 pm
  • This may be playing out like it has every year. Close to a trade but nothing in the end. Its Deja Vu all over again.

    Sam-YF July 31, 2008, 2:19 pm
  • And now we get this…
    Bay-to-Rays talks back on
    Posted by Jayson Stark
    Those on-again, off-again Jason Bay-to-Tampa Bay talks are back on, according to a source familiar with the discussions. The two sides have been so far apart that it appeared they’d given up on each other as of early Thursday afternoon. But the source said they’ve closed that gap somewhat and are still talking.
    Tampa Bay has hinted its willingness to structure a package around pitcher Jeff Niemann and shortstop prospect Reid Brignac, but the Pirates have been seeking one of their elite pitching prospects — Wade Davis, David Price or Jeremy Hellickson.

    As several others have said, I assume that all this is a mix of negotiating strategy (Pittsburg trying to get to the table or something) and sheer ignorant rumor-mongering.

    stuck working July 31, 2008, 2:19 pm
  • Seriously, since when are the Florida teams big buyers at the deadline? This is like some topsy-turvy bizarro world.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 2:26 pm
  • Now the Globe is saying the Dodgers are in it…
    Hmmm…Matt Kemp.

    stuck working July 31, 2008, 2:37 pm
  • less than an hour and a half to work this stuff out.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 2:41 pm
  • I have a huge baseball-erection for Matt Kemp, but would rather get Bay. And wow, Manny to the Dodgers sure would upset the balance in the NL West.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 2:41 pm
  • atheose, i’ve taken to calling those “merkles.”

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 2:43 pm
  • WFAN now also reports that Florida-Pitts-Boston is dead; that Boston is talking to LA Dodgers re: Manny; that Manny has said he will agree to a trade anywhere as long as they do not exercise his $20mill for next year so he can be a free agent.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 2:48 pm
  • Heyman and Cafardo both say the Sox are talking to the Dodgers. Sox want Kemp, Dodgers say Ethier. If the Sox get Kemp, their second option is better than their first option.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 2:49 pm
  • IH’s post makes me think this is Scott Boras talking. I know this is like blaming your brother being an asshole on his new girlfriend when he really was an asshole all along. But Manny was saying he wanted the options picked up earlier this year so I think Bras has been telling him how much more he’ll make as a free agent. The A-rod opting out all over again.

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2008, 2:52 pm
  • If the Sox get Kemp, their second option is better than their first option.
    What do you mean by this? That Coco is a better outfield option than Kemp?

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 2:54 pm
  • Loria went to my HS. Haha.

    Lar July 31, 2008, 2:54 pm
  • No, that Kemp is a better option than Bay.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 2:54 pm
  • Paul – I confess I don’t follow NL much at all. Are you telling me I should be happy about Kemp? Cuz if we’re losing Manny, I want to find something to be happy about.

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2008, 2:58 pm
  • Ahhh, gotcha.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 2:58 pm
  • Kemp: Only 23, under our control for another three years, 125 OPS+ (.894 OPS) at age 22, 110 OPS+ this season, but after a slow start he’s hitting .972 OPS over the last month. He’s a five-tool superstar stud prospect who looks to be living up to the hype. He won’t be as good as Bay this year, but he could be as good next year and better the next two, by which point we’d have hopefully locked him into a long-term deal.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 3:03 pm
  • As happy as I’d be to see Manny leave, I’d be bummed if the Sox got Kemp.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 3:08 pm
  • Less than an hour to go. Time is no longer the Red Sox’ friend if they want to work a deal.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 3:08 pm
  • I agree. I’d rather have Kemp, but EEI has mentioned the poss of taking the lesser prospect from LA, then adding their own pieces, and moving him to Pitt for Bay, thus taking Florida and the short bus they’re riding on, out of the equation altogether.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 3:09 pm
  • ok so better than Bay but a replacement for Manny?

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2008, 3:09 pm
  • MLB.com’s Trade-day blog says the Pirates and Rays have agreed to a deal for Bay, though the Rays have not confirmed that.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 3:11 pm
  • Not now, but he’s closing in fast, RBF.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 3:11 pm
  • I don’t know how it would work as far as the overall package. We know Kemp would be much better on defense and on the bases, helping to mitigate any dropoff in offense. But we can’t really expect Kemp to OPS+ 140 right away…

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 3:13 pm
  • tampa (jason) bay
    http://tinyurl.com/6boua9

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 3:14 pm
  • FAN is reporting the deal between rays and pirates is done.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 3:18 pm
  • The Rays getting Jason Bay now makes this AL East race a MUCH tougher game of catch-up than it was before.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 3:18 pm
  • Wait, deal between them _without_ the Sox or? I haven’t been following..

    Lar July 31, 2008, 3:20 pm
  • Sorry, crossed up Rays/Marlins in my head.. wow. I hope the asking is high..

    Lar July 31, 2008, 3:22 pm
  • Lar, the Rays just swept in and stole the Red Sox’ lunch money (Bay).

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 3:22 pm
  • bay to the rays is rough.

    Sam-YF July 31, 2008, 3:22 pm
  • Good going, Theo.
    So now, two teams have gotten sig better in the last week, and Toronto is reportedly close to getting Ibanez, and you’ve sat on your hands the whole time.
    Awesome. Way to be absolutely bitch slapped by the teams in this division, who clearly care about things that happen this year, while you hold onto a disgruntled outfielder, who will probably go on the DL when he wants to stop playing for you.
    Sweet.
    Lets hope everything pans out in 2010 when these prospects are supposed to pan out for you.
    I really hope that this is not the case. Really.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 3:29 pm
  • Way to improve the bullpen.
    Way to move Manny.
    Awesome.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 3:34 pm
  • My concern, also, is that the Sox spent all the time they could have spent upgrading the significant holes on this team chasing what was ultimately an unliklely scenario because Manny essentially held them hostage. We might never know how all this went down, though. One would assume they have more than one team of officials working on multiple possibilities.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 3:36 pm
  • “ok so better than Bay but a replacement for Manny?”
    I honestly believe that Kemp is about as close as one can get in this market and taking into account the prospect of locking this kid in for the long term.
    Having said that, no one can replace Manny and this is particularly when viewed from the perspective of how well Manny does against the Yankees (a particular interest to some of us here!).
    In 200 games vs. the Yankees (by far the most he has played against any team), Manny has compiled 233 hits, 163 RBIs, batted .321, slugged .618, gotten on base at a .421 clip, and OPS’ed 1.029. And that includes his Cleveland years. If you look at his last four years as a RS vs. the Yankees, you feel ill – if you are a YF that is (WARNING TO YFs: DO NOT READ THE 2006 FIGURES IN PARTICULAR IF YOU WANT TO HOLD DOWN YOUR LUNCHES):
    2005: 82 PA in 19 G, 6 HR, 17 RBI, 10 BB, .324 BA, .415 OBP, .620 SLG, 1.034 OPS, 111 OPS+
    2006: 63 PA in 15 G, 7 HR, 21 RBI, 17 BB, .556 BA, .667 OBP, 1.111 SLG, 1.778 OPS, 231 OPS+. Umm, this works out to a HR every 6.4 ABs by the way. Not even sure these numbers are physically possible.
    2007: 59 PA in 13 G, 4 HR, 8 RBI, 8 BB, .392 BA, .475 OBP, .686 SLG, 1.161 OPS, 162 OPS+
    2008: 44PA in 11G, 3HR, 11 RBI, 5 BB, .417 BA, .523 OBP, .778 SLG, 1.301 OPS, 178 OPS+
    If Manny does move today, I may have to refine this a bit and post it as an hommage/good riddance post from YFs.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 3:41 pm
  • Plenty of time left!!!

    LocklandSF July 31, 2008, 3:42 pm
  • On the other hand, if Manny doesn’t go, I am willing to bet he comes right back into the fold and mashes. That’s just what he does. He is a single minded automaton. I know SFs are saying that it is all just really different now, but I don’t know. If this crisis passes and he decides he just as to swallow hard and take 2 (or 3) more months of no having “peace of mind” I believe he’ll do it and – as always – his performance won’t suffer an ounce as a result.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 3:44 pm
  • why would the Dodgers ever trade Kemp for Manny unless they were getting something quite sweet in addition?

    SF July 31, 2008, 3:44 pm
  • You know, it’s trading deadlines like these that make me really glad the Sox won the World Series last year.

    FenSheaParkway July 31, 2008, 3:45 pm
  • Plenty of time left!!!
    hilarious.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 3:45 pm
  • Edes now says the Sox are not in discussions with the Dodgers, and Goldstein at BP says a deal for Kemp is not available.
    Looks like this deadline will suck.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 3:45 pm
  • I wonder if we’ll ever find out how/why the 3-way deal fell through. If it is true that the prospects were agreed and it came down to a $2mill differential, I would have to say Florida is ridiculous and even greedier than greedy.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 3:51 pm
  • How far is Bowden from an innings limit? Could he, a la Joba, move to the bullpen for the dog days, then transition back to the rotation next Spring Training?

    SF July 31, 2008, 3:51 pm
  • I wonder if we’ll ever find out how/why the 3-way deal fell through. If it is true that the prospects were agreed and it came down to a $2mill differential, I would have to say Florida is ridiculous and even greedier than greedy.
    That takes some self-restraint to not tie it to the Sox being cheapskates!

    SF July 31, 2008, 3:53 pm
  • (that was a joke, IH, by the way, don’t want it taken the wrong way)

    SF July 31, 2008, 3:53 pm
  • I would have to say Florida is ridiculous and even greedier than greedy.
    Or, I would say that the Red Sox are stupid for not meeting the demands.
    Let me get something straight. The team was willing to eat TEN MILLION DOLLARS to have Edgar Renteria NOT PLAY for the Red Sox, in addition to the FORTY MILLION THEY GAVE LUGO, but a two million dollar snag is the reason they failed to move the biggest cancer in Boston right now?
    Am I the only one who sees the flaws in this way of thinking? Two million bucks is the reason the Red Sox essentially laid out their own failing destiny for this year? We all know Manny is going to lay down, and I promise, there will be discussions between the Red Sox and the Player’s union over Manny’s crap in the coming weeks.
    UN.
    FREAKING.
    BELIEVABLE.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 3:59 pm
  • I would have to say Florida is ridiculous and even greedier than greedy.
    Or, I would say that the Red Sox are stupid for not meeting the demands.
    Let me get something straight. The team was willing to eat TEN MILLION DOLLARS to have Edgar Renteria NOT PLAY for the Red Sox, in addition to the FORTY MILLION THEY GAVE LUGO, but a two million dollar snag is the reason they failed to move the biggest cancer in Boston right now?
    Am I the only one who sees the flaws in this way of thinking? Two million bucks is the reason the Red Sox essentially laid out their own failing destiny for this year? We all know Manny is going to lay down, and I promise, there will be discussions between the Red Sox and the Player’s union over Manny’s crap in the coming weeks.
    UN.
    FREAKING.
    BELIEVABLE.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 3:59 pm
  • sorry for the double.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 3:59 pm
  • No self-restraint needed, SF.
    If that’s the case, then that’s EXACTLY what they are.
    Yeah, it makes no sense, and yeah they were getting robbed. But, that’s still better than TB getting him, and us getting stuck with the tumor in LF.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:01 pm
  • Ha ha, Globe’s site seems to have crashed from overload.

    stuck working July 31, 2008, 4:02 pm
  • I have the absolute worst thoughts going through my head right now.
    I’ve never really wished a serious injury on a player until thirty seconds ago, but I’ll keep it in my head.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:02 pm
  • rosenthal says bay is going to boston again.
    ha! this is hilarious.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 4:02 pm
  • So… Ah….
    Go Manny!?!?!?!?!?!?!

    LocklandSF July 31, 2008, 4:03 pm
  • here’s that link:
    http://tinyurl.com/64y5uc

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 4:03 pm
  • Hey Brad, in the absence of anything like reliable information about what went down, your attacks on the Sox brass are more than a little over-the-top. We all know you hate Manny more than even many of the YFs around here, but I’d wait for a little more info before passing judgment, you know?

    stuck working July 31, 2008, 4:04 pm
  • Gammons is saying the Rays think Bay is headed to Boston.
    I feel like I’m taking crazy pills!

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 4:04 pm
  • Bay deal not done yet?
    Marlins could be playing this exactly right.
    Any sliver of hope that something may get done is enough for me to maintain sanity.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:05 pm
  • awww… let it out, brad. i’d be fuming, too.
    today is all about baseless speculation anyway.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 4:06 pm
  • Stuck -
    Will do.
    But trust me, if it doesn’t happen, I’m letting loose.
    I too feel as if I’m taking crazy pills right now.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:06 pm
  • But trust me, if it doesn’t happen, I’m letting loose.
    Ha, this ISN’T you letting loose?!

    SF July 31, 2008, 4:09 pm
  • My head just exploded!!!

    Sam-YF July 31, 2008, 4:11 pm
  • I suppose, SF.
    I’m just not happy with the Red Sox right now.
    Anyone know how it works now that the deadline has passed? Are their special rules for things that in the process?

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:11 pm
  • wait.
    dead once more.
    http://tinyurl.com/67dplz
    ridiculous.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 4:11 pm
  • this is more fun than tracking daisuke’s plane!

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 4:12 pm
  • I need to take a walk.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:12 pm
  • Brad, far be it from me to defend the Sox FO, but with all the rumor-mongering going around, we realyl ahve no clue if this realyl came down to a $2mill difference. Let’s remember that the only news source we have – or at least that I saw – saying that Pittsburgh agreed to the prospects for this deal, was the Pittsburgh paper, so it may have been held up on the prospects as well.
    And I don’t bet Manny lies down. Really. He might, he might not. The only predictable thing to me about Manny is that he is unrepdictable. I’d love it if he lies down, and I can’t wait for the interview clips from Epstein, Manny, etc. tonight, but if I was forced to bet the ranch on Manny tanking or raking for the rest of this year, I’d probably pick the latter. Like I said earlier, he is a goldfish – 5-second memory at best.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:12 pm
  • So Rosenthal says: Bay-to-Rays is dead, but so is the three-way with Pitt and Fla.
    Okay. I don’t know anymore what that means.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 4:13 pm
  • WFAN just notes that Bay is hitting .216 with RISP and .190 vs. lefties. Hmmmm.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:17 pm
  • Players involved in trades after today must clear waivers.

    Sam-YF July 31, 2008, 4:21 pm
  • Announcement:
    Yankees traded Alberto Gonzalez for minor league pitcher for the Nationals Johnny Nunez
    I liked Gonzalez – gotta look up Nunez.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:22 pm
  • WFAN just reported manny to the dodgers

    Sam-YF July 31, 2008, 4:22 pm
  • A trade has been made!!

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:23 pm
  • Edes on NESN says Manny has been traded, and it’s before the commissioner…

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 4:24 pm
  • Nunez not looking that great. Not sure what the reason for this move is.
    Any corroboration for the Manny-Dodgers news?

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:24 pm
  • If they got Kemp and didn’t give up a lot more than Manny, I’d be impressed. And pissed – even if I am happy to see Manny leave.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:25 pm
  • “Breaking sports news 4:20 PM Red Sox trade Manny Ramírez The Globe’s Gordon Edes just reported that a deal has gone down with Manny Ramirez. More details to come.”

    LocklandSF July 31, 2008, 4:25 pm
  • if they get anyone other than Kemp, im very very happy.

    Sam-YF July 31, 2008, 4:26 pm
  • NOMAR’S COMING BACK!!!
    (just kidding. maybe. Oy.)

    SF July 31, 2008, 4:27 pm
  • Sam – that’s the other side of the coin, and I agree completely.
    FAn joking that if the Dodgers could just get Pedro, they could put the 2003 Sox back together – and under Torre’s management.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:27 pm
  • so basically Joe Torre is managing the red sox in LA now?
    Bizarre….

    Sam-YF July 31, 2008, 4:28 pm
  • Who is Johnny Nunez?

    Lar July 31, 2008, 4:28 pm
  • Cafardo and Edes saying they hear it’s Jason Bay coming to Boston after all.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 4:28 pm
  • Manny to LA
    Either to Pitt
    Bay to Boston
    That’s what I think before it comes down.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:29 pm
  • But MLB.com and ESPN.com say Bay is going to the Dodgers. Confusion reigns! Chaos!

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 4:29 pm
  • That’s what they’re saying on EEI right now.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:29 pm
  • Dear Theo,
    If this is true, I’m sorry I bugged out.
    Signed,
    Brad.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:30 pm
  • NESN says Bay is involved in the Dodgers deal now.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:30 pm
  • Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 4:30 pm
  • sox got bay

    Sam-YF July 31, 2008, 4:30 pm
  • Nunez (It’s “Jhonny” by the way) is a minor leaguer with a 5+ ERA in the minors, though in a brief 8 IP in AA Harrisburg he has a sub-1.00 ERA. Doesn’t seem like much.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:31 pm
  • If Theo was able to do a last-minute pivot from the Marlins (and some reported intractability) to the Dodgers and get this deal done, does the make him facile and smart, or desperate? Or both?

    SF July 31, 2008, 4:31 pm
  • here’s a smaller url:
    http://tinyurl.com/56opdh

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 4:32 pm
  • I’m liking that .216 RISP and .190 vs. lefties now, notwithstanding the fact that Bay is a solid player.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:32 pm
  • Hayman says it’s a three-way in which Manny goes to LA and Bay coms to Boston. If that’s true, count me very happy. It’s not Kemp, but it’s the next best thing available.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 4:32 pm
  • Ha, every single Boston site – the Globe, SoSH, etc. is overloaded and unavailable. Ours works, though!

    SF July 31, 2008, 4:32 pm
  • I’m liking that .216 RISP and .190 vs. lefties now, notwithstanding the fact that Bay is a solid player.
    This trade is good for John McCain.

    SF July 31, 2008, 4:33 pm
  • Pirates get 4 players from LA
    Manny to dodgers
    Bay to Boston
    PER EEI.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:34 pm
  • 4 prospects eh? I guess Boston is lucky LA is desperate or something..

    Lar July 31, 2008, 4:35 pm
  • Goodbye Manny. It’s been fun.

    John - YF July 31, 2008, 4:35 pm
  • Just got out of a poorly-timed meeting. What happened? I heard Bay didn’t really go to Tampa.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 4:35 pm
  • This also makes me believe that it was indeed greedy Florida that submarined the previous 3-way unless Pittsurgh somehow got prospects from LA that they weren’t able to get from FLA. I hope they feel foolish now. They had Manny for next to nothing as they try to hold onto 1st place in the division plus an assured 1st-round pick next year.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:35 pm
  • It makes him smart…and desperate.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:36 pm
  • So 3-way deal involving Dodgers? Wow.
    I can’t believe the Manny era in Boston is over.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 4:36 pm
  • 4 from LA and NONE from the Sox? Wow, LA is desperate.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:37 pm
  • Somewhere in CT, Brad just cracked open a nice bottle of Champagne!

    John - YF July 31, 2008, 4:37 pm
  • Manny Ramirez is no longer a member of the Boston Red Sox.
    GOODBYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!yayyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Welcome, Jason.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:38 pm
  • It’s just Brad being Brad.

    John - YF July 31, 2008, 4:40 pm
  • i kind of feel like celebrating, too.

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 4:40 pm
  • Somewhere in CT, Brad just cracked open a nice bottle of Champagne!
    Not yet, John. Right now I’m failing at a feeble attempt to work today. But I promise, tonight I’ll be celebrating – along with adding a few tshirts to my collection of rags that I use to wash my Harley with.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:42 pm
  • I like it John.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:43 pm
  • The Herald and the Fenway t-shirt guys must be frantically trying to make the best Back Bay puns right now. I’m too overwhelmed to try.

    FenSheaParkway July 31, 2008, 4:43 pm
  • sox gave hansen and moss as well as manny.
    http://tinyurl.com/5lf3om

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 4:44 pm
  • Looks like Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen are shipping out, too…

    stuck working July 31, 2008, 4:44 pm
  • I suddenly feel like crying.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 4:45 pm
  • Hanson is in this deal as well. As is Laroche (spelling).

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:45 pm
  • Sox only getting Bay? Because Manny + Moss + Hansen sounds a bit much..

    Lar July 31, 2008, 4:45 pm
  • I guess I’m excited for next year. I kinda feel like rooting for the Rays to win the division this year, because I really don’t think it’s gonna be the Sox…

    stuck working July 31, 2008, 4:45 pm
  • In other news WFAN is reporting that the Yankees continued the “Trading Things That Drive Yankee Fans Nuts” trend by sending Freddy (of Freddy Sez fame), the YMCA grounds crew and the Kate Smith rendition of GBA to the San Fransisco Giants for a PTBNL and Barry Bonds old recliner.
    More details to come.

    John - YF July 31, 2008, 4:46 pm
  • It’s better than a year of Berman saying “Jason Tampa Bay”.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:46 pm
  • Forgive me, Brad, IH, but I think I may actually end up crying about this.
    Moss was a little too much, but besides that, it makes sense.
    Lord, I’ll miss his swing.

    Devine July 31, 2008, 4:47 pm
  • Sox better be getting at last one other player back if they’re giving up Moss AND Hansen…

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 4:48 pm
  • The pirates cleaned up on this trade.
    It is a lot, Larry, but their hand was being forced to the point that they were looking for seventy cents on the dollar in a week that they should have been able to concentrate on other things, but make no mistake, I would have given up more. :)

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:49 pm
  • wow. Manny’s really gone? I just can’t quite process this

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2008, 4:49 pm
  • Manny’s going to have fun in the left field of Dodger Stadium.
    “Where’d all this grass come from?”

    FenSheaParkway July 31, 2008, 4:49 pm
  • It’s better than a year of Berman saying “Jason Tampa Bay”.
    Oh god I didn’t even consider that. This is a blessing.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 4:51 pm
  • Stuck -
    I think you couldn’t be more wrong. I think this move makes the Red Sox a better team, with a lot less stress and a LOT less problems. Yeah, they may lose a few HR, but Bay is a good damn player, and a BETTER all around player this year all things considered.
    I think this solves all the offensive problems, and at least we know that Bay is going to play when we need him to.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:51 pm
  • Brad – I’m a big fan of Bay, but Manny, rental or not, should be worth more than this, however you discount it. Hey, as a YF, I guess I’m happy about this..

    Lar July 31, 2008, 4:51 pm
  • FSP
    That’s freaking funny.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 4:52 pm
  • sox are paying all of manny’s contract, too. if the marlins were really offering to pay a good portion, i wonder which deal would have been better. (assuming that every word we read today wasn’t misinformation.)

    Yankee Fan In Boston July 31, 2008, 4:53 pm
  • Well now that we see the Boston prospects, I’m not so down on LA. At all. Nice haul. Tough move for Boston, but it looked like they had little choice.
    Loved the additional Yankee trade news John. I heard Suzyn Waldman and Ronan Tynan are part of the deal if the commissioner signs off…

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:53 pm
  • Yankees make one more trade:
    INF Alberto Gonzalez to the Nationals for RHP Jhonny Nunez.

    John - YF July 31, 2008, 4:54 pm
  • Hmm, I wonder if Jason Bay has some sort of magic powder that will fix the Varitek, Ellsbury, Crisp, Delcarmen, Lopez, Timlin, and Okajima problems?
    This may lighten the atmosphere in the clubhouse, and the net offense/defense changes may end up being a wash, but the Sox are still flawed. I think this deal will more smartly be measured in the offseason when the Sox figure out what to do with their roster, not primarily over the course of the rest of this season. They still have some major issues. But hey, at least the players won’t have to answer questions about Manny (starting in couple of days, of course).

    SF July 31, 2008, 4:56 pm
  • IH, I would say throw them in. They can also take the guy who plays the saxaphone and guitar by the parking garage as well…Since we are cleaning house.

    John - YF July 31, 2008, 4:56 pm
  • Brad: your vision is really being distorted by your Manny-hate if you think this deal “solves all the offensive problems” this team has this year. Given everything, this still might make sense, but it likely doesn’t represent an offensive *upgrade* in the near-term. And, as much as Hansen worried me whenever he came in, this further weakens the Sox bullpen, which is already the weakest point.
    Gah. Indigestion.

    stuck working July 31, 2008, 4:57 pm
  • What’s Bay’s LORP? (Leadership Over Replacement Player)

    Lar July 31, 2008, 4:58 pm
  • I guess I like this trade. Would have liked it better if it was Hansen, but Moss was pretty clearly never going to get his chance in Boston anyway.
    The Sox essentially upgraded their position in left field for a relief pitcher who was not looking like anything worth keeping and a fourth outfielder who had promise but also wasn’t going to ever get his chance here. I think that’s good.
    Bay is younger than Manny, faster than Manny, a much better defender than Manny and is already giving equal or slightly more production than Manny. If the Sox had to overpay to get somebody, I’d rather it be Bay.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 5:00 pm
  • Let’s move Manny discussion up top to YF’s thread.

    SF July 31, 2008, 5:01 pm
  • I agree, even with SF, who likes to chime in with some kind of holier than thou comment at whatever I say.
    It won’t fix the problems, but I don’t think it makes them worse at all. I think it makes them better. Maybe I’m wrong. Of course there are problems, and I would have liked to not get rid of Hansen just yet, but whatever.
    We know where I stand here. I still think the Red Sox are going to be better because of this move, if not this year, definitely next when they are able to re-invest that money into pitching.
    Regardless, I think they’re better. If they had kept Manny, things would have been more of the same for weeks to come, and that was something that this team could ill-afford right now.
    I don’t know, maybe you’re right – maybe I am being led around by my hatred for all things Manny.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 5:02 pm
  • What Paul said.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 5:02 pm
  • Let’s not overlook the true impetus for this deal: Pittsburgh’s unquenchable desire to trade for every LaRoche currently playing Baseball.

    FenSheaParkway July 31, 2008, 5:03 pm
  • There is the little problem of the fact that the Red Sox did nothing to address their two glaring holes: Catcher and Bullpen. I think Lowrie at short and Ellsbury at center are weaknesses you live with because for the Sox to be successful they are going to need to hit. But Varitek being a black hole and the bullpen being unreliable are big problems, and Bay will do nothing to solve them.
    I do think Bay makes the Red Sox a better team, though, both from a stats perspective, and from a “not going to be a huge distraction to his manager and teammates” perspective.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 5:03 pm
  • I think deals will get done for a reliever, and I think they’re just going to live with Varitek. I think they feel that any offense he gives them is a bonue (to what I don’t know) but I’ve heard many people say this over and over again.
    You’re exactly right, Paul.
    I think they’ll be adding Bowden very soon with hopes that he’ll be able to help them.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 5:11 pm
  • Well if Paul tells me this is an upgrade from a stat point of view, I am not even going to bother to do the math. I could have figured out the distraction part on my own :)

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2008, 5:14 pm

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