BREAKING: Manny to La-La Land

SFs won’t have Manny to kick around anymore. Boston.com is so overwhelmed it’s not loading, but credible reports indicate Manny has been moved to Los Angeles. More to come.

Update: Congratulations Theo. You have replaced Manny with Manny 2.0, Jason Bay. Same stats as Manny ’08, none of the headaches.

76 comments… add one

  • I’m excited about the addition of Bay… but now that Manny is officially gone I feel like crying.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 4:46 pm
  • Well, this is probably for the best, but we’re gonna miss you, Manny.

    DUFF - SF July 31, 2008, 4:46 pm
  • I am really pissed about this. The “MANNY 4EVA” tat that spans my back is looking mighty dumb right now.

    SF July 31, 2008, 4:50 pm
  • How much money goes with Manny? Since the Sox included Moss and Hansen, I’d imagine they would have wanted to pay less of the salary. But who knows.

    SF July 31, 2008, 4:51 pm
  • #1 Yankee-killer gone…thank god.

    krueg July 31, 2008, 4:54 pm
  • 7 mil, reportedly.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 4:56 pm
  • The first few times Joe Torre sees Manny coming he’ll have to fight heart palpatations and flashbacks.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:56 pm
  • Since we don’t know which prospects were offered in the other 3-way, you don’t know if this is exactly what Boston was prepared to give up to FLA (only FLA wanted an extra $2mill reportedly), in which case neither deal was all that good for Boston, but their hands were forced and FLA got left out in the cold because their billionaire owner wanted the Sox to not just drive Manny to his stadium, but carry him into the clubhouse once he got there. I’m loving FLA’s foolishness if this is all true.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 4:58 pm
  • Moose approves of this deal.

    Lar July 31, 2008, 5:00 pm
  • Hmm, I wonder if Jason Bay has some sort of magic powder that will fix the Varitek, Ellsbury, Crisp, Delcarmen, Lopez, Timlin, and Okajima problems?
    This may lighten the atmosphere in the clubhouse, and the net offense/defense changes may end up being a wash, but the Sox are still flawed. I think this deal will more smartly be measured in the offseason when the Sox figure out what to do with their roster, not primarily over the course of the rest of this season. They still have some major issues. But hey, at least the players won’t have to answer questions about Manny (starting in couple of days, of course).
    YF offers his congratulations, but the Sox aren’t really any better off in pure baseball terms for 2008 than they were 25 minutes ago. I don’t necessarily think 2008 was Theo’s primary goal, though. Bay helps for 2009 since Manny wasn’t an option. Fans looking for some salve for 2008 would be wise not get their hopes too high.

    SF July 31, 2008, 5:03 pm
  • You aren’t kidding SF their stats are almost identical in 2008.

    John - YF July 31, 2008, 5:08 pm
  • Manny, Moss and Hansen, +7mil….
    You all know how I feel about Hansen personally, plus I don’t think he’s any good beyond that.
    Moss is upsetting.
    We gave too much, but we had to, Manny forced their hand.

    LocklandSF July 31, 2008, 5:09 pm
  • As per your comment Paul, I’m a little surprised that Boston didn’t shore up their bullpen. I only say that because it seemed like a major need for them and there were also plenty of bullpen arms around. I think Manny-itis may have sucked all the air and time out of the Sox brass these past few days. Catcher I understand because it’s not like they are floating around (I think Cash got the only quality one available), but bullpen?

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 5:10 pm
  • I’ll repost what I put in the other thread:
    I guess I like this trade. Would have liked it better if it was Hansen, but Moss was pretty clearly never going to get his chance in Boston anyway.
    The Sox essentially upgraded their position in left field for a relief pitcher who was not looking like anything worth keeping and a fourth outfielder who had promise but also wasn’t going to ever get his chance here. I think that’s good.
    Bay is younger than Manny, faster than Manny, a much better defender than Manny and is already giving equal or slightly more production than Manny. If the Sox had to overpay to get somebody, I’d rather it be Bay.
    There is the little problem of the fact that the Red Sox did nothing to address their two glaring holes: Catcher and Bullpen. I think Lowrie at short and Ellsbury at center are weaknesses you live with because for the Sox to be successful they are going to need to hit. But Varitek being a black hole and the bullpen being unreliable are big problems, and Bay will do nothing to solve them.
    I do think Bay makes the Red Sox a better team, though, both from a stats perspective and from a “not going to be a huge distraction to his manager and teammates” perspective, and that’s good for the pennant race. Likewise, deals for middle relievers often can get through waivers, so I would guess the Sox still have another trade milling around for the next month or so if Masterson’s rocky start in the pen doesn’t smooth out.
    Let’s not forget the lessons of 2004 — that sometimes a trade can be greater than the sum of its parts. Arguably, getting rid of the clubhouse cancer that Nomar had become was more important in turning that season’s fortunes around than any of the pieces they acquired for him, though they ultimately all proved their value before it was all over.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 5:11 pm
  • “Moose approves of this deal”
    Indeed.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 5:11 pm
  • I don’t like it. Shouldn’t the sox be getting back Bay plus 2-3 prospects, and a decent reliever? Bay’s only under contract, for 7-8 mil a year, till ’10. Then he’s a free agent. So a little more than 2 years of a good hitter. And to get that we had to give Manny’s production, Moss, Hansen, and money?
    There has to be more to this…

    rk July 31, 2008, 5:13 pm
  • With Bay’s problems vs. lefty batting, I see lots of lefty relievers in store for Ortiz/Bay if they are back-to-back in the lineup. Third time in the last week I’ve been happy to have Marte.

    IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008, 5:13 pm
  • Moss is upsetting.
    I’m sad to see him go, but he was never going to be a full-time outfielder in Boston.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 5:14 pm
  • Shouldn’t the sox be getting back Bay plus 2-3 prospects, and a decent reliever?
    For what? Manny Ramirez 2008 is not Manny Ramirez 2005. And not only is he Manny Ramirez 2008, he’s Manny Ramirez 2008 who slaps teammates, shoves old men and placed the Red Sox in a position where they felt they could do nothing but trade him if they hoped to have a shot the rest of the year (according to most reports now).
    Everyone in baseball knew the Sox felt they HAD to trade Ramirez. I think it’s laudable they got a hitter of Bay’s caliber considering the position they were in.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 5:15 pm
  • I get that his production declined, and he became worse than his usual quixotic this year – even a net negative clubhouse-wise. But he still fit in pretty darn well in the lineup. The Sox have felt plenty of times in the past that they HAD to trade him, and still couldn’t get value back for him. This trade illustrates that – it’s still the case that you can’t get back the right value for such a once-in-a-lifetime player. I’d feel better if Manny + Moss + Hansen didn’t = Jason Bay … if something else was added to the equation. Or if we had Bay with a longer, cheaper contract.
    Plus, I worry about what this does to Ortiz, both Lefty/Lefty-wise and morale-wise…
    Again, I hear your argument, and I agree to a certain extent, I just think the Sox are shrewd enough to be able to get more.

    rk July 31, 2008, 5:23 pm
  • I foresee a batting order where Nady and Ortiz aren’t batting back-to-back. Youk gunna split them up? Lowell?

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 5:26 pm
  • Ath – Freudian there? ;P

    Lar July 31, 2008, 5:29 pm
  • Youk third, Ortiz fourth, Lowell fifth, Bay sixth, Drew seventh?

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 5:31 pm
  • By “Nady” I mean “Bay”. Gah I’m an idiot.
    Bay > Nady x 10

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 5:32 pm
  • Youk third, Ortiz fourth, Lowell fifth, Bay sixth, Drew seventh?
    So Ellsbury back to lead-off, with Pedroia at #2?

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 5:32 pm
  • BTW, Manny’s options are gone, and Manny agrees to decline arbitration. I didn’t know you can do that!

    Lar July 31, 2008, 5:34 pm
  • I’d prefer to go ‘Pedroia/Youk/Drew/Ortiz/Lowell/Bay’, myself. Ellsbury doesn’t deserve to be anywhere near the leadoff spot right now.
    I pretty much agree with Paul on this trade. We get essentially the same production, more reliability (Bay won’t be randomly sitting out because of ‘hamstrings’), and better defense, although Bay will likely have a bit of trouble adjusting to the Monster. All we gave up, prospect-wise, was a fourth/fifth outfielder and a reliever who was never going to figure it out in Boston – no great loss there. And Bay is a lot younger and signed for a very affordable $7.5M next year, so we save plenty of money. I’d be happy to sign him to an extension, too.
    That said, I don’t think this pushes us over the top for this season. Varitek is still a black hole in the lineup, and the bullpen is still a mess. The team will have less pressure on it now that the constant Manny drama is over, but on-field we really didn’t address any of our biggest issues. My feeling before today was that the Angels were the clear AL frontrunners, and the deadline has done nothing to change that.

    Micah-SF July 31, 2008, 5:38 pm
  • I can’t wait to see the Dugout for all of this. I’m still really sad about Manny’s departure though.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 5:38 pm
  • I think the Sox have wanted to trade Manny for a long time and they’ve finally done a very good job at making it seem they HAD to get rid of Manny.
    7 mil. prospects and Manny Ramirez for Jason Bay. They love those JD Drew types in the front office.

    walein July 31, 2008, 5:40 pm
  • IH, are you willing to bet Bay’s .190 average against lefties in the grand total of 84 ABs this year against the fact that his career OPS against lefties is actually higher than against righties?
    He’s hitting .276/.389/.515 against lefties and .283/.371/.515 against righties for his career. Color me unconcerned about batting him third and Ortiz fourth (or vice-versa) in our new lineup.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 5:42 pm
  • “Bay > Nady x 10″
    Well, TECHNICALLY Nady has been a superior player to Bay for the past two years.
    Just pulling your leg though, Bay is clearly a better player than Nady. But maybe not by all that much.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2008, 5:44 pm
  • I like Jason Bay, although to my knowledge he has never high-fived a fan in the middle of a double play (you can’t replace that kind of production). I’m a little irritated that we had to give up Moss as well, but otherwise I like the trade… sad to see Manny go, but it was clearly time.

    Jackie (SF) July 31, 2008, 5:45 pm
  • Speaking of Drew, someone in Rob Neyer’s chat noticed this: He’s now the Red Sox’ highest-paid player.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 5:45 pm
  • I like Jason Bay, although to my knowledge he has never high-fived a fan in the middle of a double play (you can’t replace that kind of production).
    This is, by far, the only thing that’s made me smile in the last 5 hours.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 5:46 pm
  • This is, by far, the only thing that’s made me smile in the last 5 hours.
    Really? Because I smiled when I heard the Red Sox were getting Jason Freakin’ Bay.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 5:47 pm
  • That’s awesome..
    I think the lineup should be –
    Ped
    Drew
    Ortiz
    Lowell
    Bay
    Youk
    Tek
    Lowrie
    Ellsbury.
    Everyone is being protected here…well, almost.
    I think Bay or Drew should hit second for sure though.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 5:49 pm
  • I agree, Paul. I smiled from ear to ear.

    Brad July 31, 2008, 5:49 pm
  • I was excited as hell about Bay BEFORE it happened, but when the trade itself was official I was overcome with sadness. I’m gunna miss that crazy guy.
    Bay had better be good in Boston, or the fans will hate him more than anyone.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 5:51 pm
  • You don’t like Youk batting 2nd?

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 5:53 pm
  • > He’s now the Red Sox’ highest-paid player.
    Deservedly so.

    attackgerbil July 31, 2008, 5:54 pm
  • Bay had better be good in Boston, or the fans will hate him more than anyone.
    And if he is good, we will love him like we haven’t loved since O Cab. I still miss him sometimes.
    PS, thanks for the compliment. :)

    Jackie (SF) July 31, 2008, 5:55 pm
  • PS, thanks for the compliment. :)
    Thanks for the smile!

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 5:58 pm
  • More than Sox fans hated Drew? Ok, low blow.
    Amazingly, the sox now have no players making $15 million a year.
    Btw, this isn’t a bad lineup, either:
    Pedroia – R
    Youkilis – R
    Ortiz -L
    Bay – R
    Drew – L
    Lowell – R
    Lowrie – S
    Varitek – S
    Ellsbury – L

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 5:59 pm
  • I like that lineup! If Ellsbury comes around then Tek would be the only black hole.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 6:03 pm
  • Of course, the thing is: That’s the lineup the Sox have been putting out there lately, except with Manny, who wasn’t adjusting to AL pitchers.
    The problem has not been with the Sox’ offense, which is better than I expected coming into the season (and I expected improvements from most of the hitters). But Bay’s defense will help keep runs off the board, his baserunning will add runs to the board, and his presence in the clubhouse (i.e., Manny’s lack of same) can’t do anything but help the team. Unless you’re reeally sold on Hansen’s and Moss’ abilities to contribute in 2008-09. And let’s not forget the $10M+ the Sox will be saving in left field for similar production next season. That’s money that, combined with Schilling’s and probably at least some of Varitek’s, could be spent very well elsewhere this offseason.
    Theo took a lousy situation, just truly terrible, that placed him in an extremely difficult position in terms of receiving value in return, and turned it into a net benefit for the Red Sox. At the end of deadline day, it’s hard to complain about that. Kudos.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 6:08 pm
  • Brad – love your line up! I think Drew is an ideal #2 hitter.

    dw (sf) July 31, 2008, 6:09 pm
  • I think most ways we set up our 1-6 hitters are pretty good – that’s a very solid group. Lowrie’s been okay – not great, but he does give me the added bonus of not causing my blood pressure to rise, as the name ‘Julio Lugo’ does every time I see it onscreen. Tek is just terrible, and will be for the rest of the season. No getting around that. Ellsbury, we have to hope, will start figuring it out.
    I’m still trying to come to grips with Manny no longer being on the team. He’s been such a large part of my baseball-watching life. And I think that regardless of how nasty things got at the end, we have to consider the Manny Ramirez Experience an amazing success.

    Micah-SF July 31, 2008, 6:12 pm
  • oh and I think the sox got rid of two personalities that stink – Manny’s and Hansen. Sad to see Moss go, though.
    If they had a photo line up of Kielty, Moss and Drew, would be hard to tell them apart at times.

    dw (sf) July 31, 2008, 6:12 pm
  • Hmm… evidence for hitting Bay 4th:
    3rd: .260/.353/.455 (.808)
    4th: .300/.393/.568 (.961)

    Micah-SF July 31, 2008, 6:18 pm
  • What’s the sample size on that Micah?

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 6:21 pm
  • Some players, despite their talent, and their attitude, just deserve to be on certain teams. Manny, deserved to be a Red Sox. A sad day indeed for the Nation.
    As good a player as Jason Bay, it just not as intimidating to see him in the hole as it was seeing Manny. Yankee’s pitchers rejoice.

    PETER July 31, 2008, 6:21 pm
  • it just not as intimidating to see him in the hole as it was seeing Manny
    I agree this is true at first, but ultimately performance is what drives intimidation. If Bay performs, he’ll quickly become a feared presence in the hole. If he doesn’t, he won’t.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 6:26 pm
  • Also, as much as folks are understandably down on Hansen, I really really didn’t think that Boston was in a position to deal away bullpen arms without getting any back, even it was a Mahay or what have you.
    Who’s coming up to take Hansen’s spot now? Someone mentioned Bowden, but I have no idea if that’s likely.

    stuck working July 31, 2008, 6:28 pm
  • I’m not trying to be combative after a long layoff, but are we seriously conceding that Bay = Manny?
    I mean, this is Manny Ramirez, arguably one of the top-5 right handed hitters last 15 years? Do we think Jason Bay is going to be that?
    Yes, so far this year Bay and Manny are close – these two sets of numbers are somewhat comparable, even if Manny is +100 OPS.
    BA .282 .299
    HR 22 20
    RBIs 64 68
    OBP .375 .398
    Slug pct. .515 .590
    OPS .890 .988
    But historically?
    In 5 full seasons, the soon-to-be-30 year old Bay averages .287/.375/.890 and was over 100 RBIs twice (three times with this year). Manny in 14 seasons averages .312/.409/.999 and was over 100 RBIs 12 out of 13 times.
    Now there are parallels, after 5 seasons Manny left Cleveland for the Sox, just as Bay is now going to the Sox after 5 seasons. But even taking Bay’s stats and comparing them to the young Manny’s stats (.314/.407/.995), there is a gap, a sizable gap. As an aside, isn’t it amazing how consistent Manny has been the last decade?
    Obviously, there are pluses to the Sox – cheaper (and better in other facets of the game) and now they don’t have Manny being Manny, but lets not start talking about how Bay replaces Manny’s production.
    They gained chemistry, defense, base-running and effort – but Manny was too special of a hitter to replace. In the end, the deal might be a plus for the Sox overal (especially with financial flexibility down the road) or even a wash (the thing you needed to do that broke out even), but offensive wise? Unless Bay goes against the previous four years (in 2007, in a full season he hit .247/.327/.745 for instance)and stays the hitter he has been this year and at points before, and if he does it for a long period of time, will i consider the offensive production replaced.

    Carlos July 31, 2008, 6:29 pm
  • Theo took a lousy situation, just truly terrible, that placed him in an extremely difficult position in terms of receiving value in return, and turned it into a net benefit for the Red Sox.
    I agree, but I also think that the situation was at least partly of their own making. There always seems to be an outbreak of “Manny (or whatever star player) is a douche” stories right around the time that they’re trying to move him, and it’s hard for me to accept that this is coincidental. I guess it makes sense to badmouth departing players to keep the fanbase happy, but it seems kinda dumb as a baseball move.

    Jackie (SF) July 31, 2008, 6:33 pm
  • Nobody’s arguing that Bay replaces Manny historically, but I think there’s an argument that he’ll be just as good going forward. At this point in his career, Manny can’t replace Manny’s production. You know?

    Jackie (SF) July 31, 2008, 6:36 pm
  • About 200 ABs each, Ath.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 6:41 pm
  • True, if you see Manny on a downslide and that he won’t be Manny for much longer, then you are just scheduling his retirement earlier.
    I’m not even against that choice. The logic being: It was time to move beyond Manny – if he ends up hitting over .950 OPS until he’s 40 (four more years), then we’ll eat crow. But, that is unlikely and we chose a time where we could get something comparable, and younger.”
    I like that, but its cutting it close – i’d liked to at least see the downslide beforehand. But if you see it, others see it, and less value. Although, how could you have less value when every one knows you have to move him? I guess when he’s Manny Ramirez and he’s likely to demolish NL pitching as a way to say “EFF You.”

    Carlos July 31, 2008, 6:42 pm
  • I’m sorry, Carlos, I don’t at all see the relevance of your point. Manny historically was a special hitter, yes. One of the greatest. A tremendous threat the Red Sox were extremely fortunate to have.
    The problem is even had they kept Manny, the Sox would not have that hitter. So your argument is to keep Manny because of what he did from 1999-2006? What about what Jason Bay can do vs. what Manny Ramirez can do in 2008-09?

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 6:46 pm
  • i’d liked to at least see the downslide beforehand.
    2005: 152 games, 153 OPS+
    2006: 130 games, 165 OPS+
    2007: 133 games, 126 OPS+
    2008: 149 games*, 140 OPS+
    Manny has not been both healthy and performing at peak levels in the same season since 2005. He is now 36 years old. He’s still a great athlete who I think will hit 600 home runs and decline gracefully into the sunset. But he is declining, and while that in itself is not a bad thing — heading into this season and up to the last month I was assuming the Sox would pick up his first option year without question and absolutely hoping they would — it makes him easier to replace when other factors make that replacement a neceesity.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 6:51 pm
  • I guess my point is that although Late Ramirez for Early Bay is a good deal under the circumstances, and maybe the best deal you can get, but the tone of the posts and other commentary seem to imply that Bay would replace Manny’s production.
    I just don’t think Bay is that good of a hitter. Not that i’d expect it or seek it, nor do I fault the Sox for going to get the best they could, but i wanted some acknowledgment that Bay does not equal Ramirez.
    Also, what we may need to remember is that soon around the corner the Sox offense is going to turn over – how many years does Lowell, Ortiz and Varitek have? Pretty soon the offense may look completely different and the hole where Ramirez used to stand won’t seem relevant at all.

    Carlos July 31, 2008, 7:07 pm
  • Bay is also a good candidate to do well at Fenway; he seems to have a decent bias for the LF fly ball, so he could see a Lowell-like bump in BA/doubles.
    http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=424726&statType=1

    Jackie (SF) July 31, 2008, 7:16 pm
  • I don’t think anyone is pretending that Bay’s anywhere near Manny’s league historically, Carlos – nor is he likely to be. But “Bay does not equal Ramirez historically” doesn’t mean that “Bay does not equal Ramirez either this year or going forward” – when one can make a pretty good argument that he does.
    As for Bay not being a good hitter, he’s had the following OPS+ numbers in the Majors:
    132, 150, 138, 93, 135 (this year). If last year was a fluke, and I think it was, he’s a very good hitter. Is he a great hitter, like Manny was for most of his career in Boston? No. But neither is Manny, anymore.

    Micah-SF July 31, 2008, 7:32 pm
  • Bay was injured last season, so yeah, that was a fluke.

    Paul SF July 31, 2008, 7:43 pm
  • Gammons weighs in with the Official Story: http://tinyurl.com/6lqf6g
    Whatever the spin on Manny vs. Management, his version is probably right to acquit the Marlins of criminal stupidity.

    stuck working July 31, 2008, 10:02 pm
  • Bay missed 17 games last year so chalking all his lower numbers up to injury is not totally accurate. Also, I don’t I understand how his numbers this year are compared to manny’s to illustrate how he is an even replacement but when splits from those same numbers are looked at (such as v. LHP or w/ RISP) get dismissed as a fluke.
    Ive said it before but does any SF believe the sox make this trade if the aren’t forced to do so by manny? If not why did the do it then? Is bay really worth manny two prospects & $7 million? Finally, if bay is an even replacement for manny then why does a lineup that has been stuggling for the last month all of a sudden supposed to be great?
    I think this trade is the best theo could do but I think it makes the sox a lesser team.

    Sam-yf July 31, 2008, 10:10 pm
  • Bay missed 17 games last year so chalking all his lower numbers up to injury is not totally accurate.
    He had a few minor injuries, such as a thumb injury, that he attempted to play through for most of the season. Looking at missed games alone doesn’t tell you the whole story.

    Atheose July 31, 2008, 10:33 pm
  • “I think this trade is the best theo could do but I think it makes the sox a lesser team.”
    Oh, I agree totally…THIS year. As I’ve said elsewhere: cheaper, younger, still talented, and pieces gone that won’t be missed. Assuming Bay is pretty good over his stay, a chance to lock him up at a good rate. Now Theo has a damn good lineup (still, and with less chance for injury) and a chance to play with the money a little more in the free agent market for next year (it’s the best free agent offseason in awhile, isn’t it?).
    It’s throwing in the towel on this season, I think. (The Red Sox don’t suck, but I don’t know if they can keep up with a revamped Yankees and Rays–let alone the Angels.) But that’s kind of okay given last year and the chance that he can put together something better next year.

    Devine July 31, 2008, 11:24 pm
  • I agree with the idea that it’s throwing the towel in for the season. It may make the sox better in the next few years but I don’t think we make the post-season – not without Manny and now with what Manny had become.

    rootbeerfloat August 1, 2008, 12:04 am
  • I think it’s fair to say the Sox did pretty well given the spot they had gotten themselves into, though I’m not so sure about Bay becoming what Manny did.
    Bay has only once hit over .300 in his first 5 seasons in the league (Manny had done it 3 times in his first 5 seasons) and Bay Ks a lot more than Manny did when he was at a similar stage of his career.
    In the 14 years in which Manny played in at least 100 games, he only OPS’ed under 140 once – last year. Bay has OPS’ed under 140 in 4 of the 5 seasons in which he has played at least 100 games (incl ’08 so far).
    This is not meant to rain on the parade of those sfs who are happy with the move because given the alternatives it was a pretty good move I think. And Paul’s point that Manny is on the downside and Bay is on the upside of their respective careers is clearly important (in fact it’s the only important consideration) when evaluating this move vs. holding onto and extending a Manny who wanted to play (even if that were possible, which it seems like it wasn’t).
    I’m just happy to have anyone in Manny’s slot who does not average .312/.409/.590 as Manny has over his career let alone what he has done to the Yanks (.321/.411/.618). And while I don’t expect Bay to reach those heights in his career or vs. the Yanks, you never know – maybe Fenway and being surrounded by that line-up will make all the difference. Or maybe the big stage and impatient sfs with unrealistic expectations will make him miserable. Regardless, it certainly is the end of one era in Boston and the beginning a new one.

    IronHorse (yf) August 1, 2008, 1:02 am
  • RBF –
    again, I think you’re way off base. Teams are capable of winning without Manny Ramirez. Bullpen help will ulitimately be the deciding factor, not Manny Ramirez.
    I still think the Sox win the East.

    Brad August 1, 2008, 1:37 am
  • I woke up this morning and I was sad. I’m excited to see what Bay can do but right now I really, really miss Manny.

    Atheose August 1, 2008, 8:01 am
  • Remember this:
    .348/.508/.652
    Manny in the playoffs last year.

    Jay August 1, 2008, 8:21 am
  • Not to mention his walk-off, one of the greatest Manny moment.

    Atheose August 1, 2008, 8:37 am
  • I also feel like this is more of a 2009 move, but I don’t think it particularly destroys our chances of doing well in 2008.

    Jackie (SF) August 1, 2008, 12:15 pm
  • “…Manny has not been both healthy and performing at peak levels in the same season since 2005. He is now 36 years old. He’s still a great athlete who I think will hit 600 home runs and decline gracefully into the sunset. But he is declining, and while that in itself is not a bad thing …”
    good assessment paul, and food for thought for those who think the sox “gave up too much” [most fans seem lukewarm about hansen and moss] to rid themselves of manny…even manny isn’t manny anymore, and despite the comparisons to rationalize the sox actually gaining something, a more realistic outlook is that bay is not manny either, and likely never will be…how many times have you heard these words uttered: ‘wow, that guy’s gonna be the next manny’, in the past 10 years?…so, the arguments about manny’s value, along with hansen and moss, aren’t consistent with the perceptions of bay and the value he brings…they seem to be looping…for the record, i think you gave up too much too, despite manny’s precipitous drop in value over the past couple of weeks, and his advanced age…that couldn’t be avoided, given the fact that you had to make a deal and the other teams knew it, but of course that’s without the benefit of seeing how bay will perform for boston…as we’ve said before, the best time to assess a trade is a year or 2 down the road…

    dc August 1, 2008, 1:06 pm

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