From The “Who Could Ever Tire Of Talking About ARod” Dept.

Pete Abraham of the Journal News writes, "It seems to me that A-Rod’s relationship with the team is beyond repair at this point and he needs to get traded."

Like Baumbach, Pete’s article speculates on the most likely trade partners.  In contrast to Baumbach’s position, he thinks that ARod’s "mood swings and contrived emotions have become too much for Joe Torre and the core players to take."

I think ARod should stay, unless a grade-A playoff contending team became so enamored with him that they were willing to part with talent and money that made the deal impossible for NY or Alex to want to kill.  We’re talking a lot of talent and a lot of money, and I don’t think that will happen.  So, for the two or three of you not tired of talking about ARod, do you think ARod should stay or go?

Pete also reported that Joe Girardi does not seem to be tops on the list for any of the available managerial slots.  Could a return to the Yankees be in the making?

35 comments… add one
  • Pete also reported that Joe Girardi does not seem to be tops on the list for any of the available managerial slots. Could a return to the Yankees be in the making..
    Why not? Every other coach on the Yankees has been a ML manager. It’s an All-Star coaching staff for an All-Star baseball team. It’s worked well so far.

    Brad October 16, 2006, 4:01 pm
  • from the rocky mountain news:
    “Joe Girardi will rejoin the coaching staff of Yankee manager Joe Torre if he doesn’t land the Washington or Cubs managerial job.”
    ( http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/mlb/article/0,2777,DRMN_23924_5069555,00.html )
    there you go… if you trust the rocky mountain news’ yankee reporting…

    Yankee Fan In Boston October 16, 2006, 4:08 pm
  • Never trade A-Rod. Never.

    Sam October 16, 2006, 4:35 pm
  • I’ll be more enlightening for those who care.
    1. He’s up there with Manny, Albert and Beltran as one of the very best hitters in MLB. He has more win shares over the past three years for the Yanks than any other player. In this, a “crisis” year for him, he led the team in ribbies and was second (by one HR) in HRs. His OPS was still way above league average. How do you replace all that?
    2. At some point, baseball history tells us that he’ll revert to his regular season form in the playoffs. I want him to do that in a Yankee uniform and win the WS with/for us.
    3. Right now is probably the worst time to trade him because Cash would be doing so from a weak position. You’re never going to get adequate return from trading A-Rod (similar to the dilemma the Sox have with Manny), but this offseason you’ll do worse than most other times.
    4. By Yanks standards, he’s value for money, only costing us $16m per.
    5. I don’t care if he’s a dick and if The Captain doesn’t like him – he trains hard, plays hard, takes his job seriously, doesn’t get in fights or go out drinking and disgracing himself, is injury-free and desperately wants to win a title. That’s exactly the sort of player I want on my time.
    Trade A-Rod at your peril, Cash.

    Sam October 16, 2006, 4:45 pm
  • Ugh. “Team” not “time”. Sorry.

    Sam October 16, 2006, 4:46 pm
  • yeah, Sam we’ve heard all the arguments about his numbers, but if I were a Yankee fan, I’d want a little more Tom Brady and little less Peyton Manning.

    Brad October 16, 2006, 5:06 pm
  • That being said, we all know it has nothing to do with A-Rod the person and everything to do with A-Rod the scapegoat. He’s in something with New Yorkers he’s not likely to get out of anytime soon. They’re waiting for the trade, and if they don’t get it, they’ll anxiously be awaiting that first strike out with the bases loaded or the first error of next year to voice their opinions to him. Just like they did every game of this year.

    Brad October 16, 2006, 5:14 pm
  • We’ll take him, and put him back at short. Mark my words, he comes to the Bosox next year.

    Manny's Mission October 16, 2006, 5:23 pm
  • Yes and no, Brad. Yes, I agree that it’s the whole scapegoat thing, but I for one refuse to believe that FO should cave into that.
    For another thing, the Bray/Manning comparison is boring beyond belief – and typical of a Boston fan. The two play in completey different systems that require different things of their QBs. The Manning is a choker meme is just as boring and empty to me as the A-Rod as choker line of thinking.
    Plus, and here’s my point, ALL THESE PLAYERS ARE STILL PLAYING! You can’t judge Manning and Brady yet because their careers aren’t over – look at John Elway for goodness sake. Or even Bonds, as was pointed out in the NYTimes article yesterday(?). Crappy playoff record, then hit over .400 in 2002 playoffs and all the stigma is gone.
    My main point is that A-Rod is 30 years old. He has at least five more good (great) years ahead of him, and so long as the Yanks make the playoffs in, say, three of the next five years, I’m confident that eventually the real A-Rod will show up.

    Sam October 16, 2006, 5:24 pm
  • Sam is so right. Slappy will have excellent numbers in the future and will, without a doubt, perform in the offseason. But, the yanks want it all now and see Arod as a distraction, so he is gone.

    Manny's Mission October 16, 2006, 5:26 pm
  • Hey, no need to tell me anything about Elway – I’m a lifetime Bronco fan. And, no you’re not correct. Manning has been blessed with exactly two of the best offensive players in the leauge for the past five years, and failed at every attempt to get it done. Brady – no so much.
    It’s not boring to compare the two, unless of course, your argument is that Manning is better. He’s clearly not. It’s like saying Marino was better than Montana. He’s not. Period. When it all boils down to one play, or one throw, or one at bat, there are better guys you want on that plate or behind center.

    Brad October 16, 2006, 5:28 pm
  • Wow Brad. I agree with you. Its the reason I love Derek Jeter so much.

    Seth October 16, 2006, 5:44 pm
  • Sam, of COURSE you can judge Brady. He led a team to three Super Bowl titles. End of judgment dilemma. Manning’s a tougher call: he’s never won a title despite being surrounded by teams that ought to have done better. And he’s been at the center of their failure. He has, many times, completely crumbled. Still, he’s a great talent and has time to be a Super Bowl champ. On that level, his career is, I agree, in “judgment flux”. Brady, not so much. Brady has nothing left to prove. Which will make the rest of his career an even more immense accomplishment. Kind of like why you guys love Jeter. Would you have said, after 2000, that it was still premature to judge him as a player, that he still had to prove his greatness?

    SF October 16, 2006, 5:50 pm
  • *and Jeter was playing on a set of teams that were pretty stacked. Brady led deep, extremely talented (though not differentially-talented teams like the Yankees of the late 90s), salary-capped teams, and at the most important position in the sport, a far more important position to football than shortstop is to baseball. Jeter’s greatness was probably even more arguable at that time than Brady’s is now (if not so much any more). Of course, arguing across sports is sort of moronic, but I think you can get why I am trying to say…

    SF October 16, 2006, 6:12 pm
  • Didn’t Joe Gibbs, in the late 80’s and 90’s, prove that the most important person on the field was the head coach? I mean he won super bowls with Doug Williams, Mark Rypien and Joe Theisman.
    Here’s a question I have. If Peyton had played on New England instead of Brady, do you think they’d still have won all those championships. My guess is yes. The Patriots teams were just a better balanced team than the Colts. Brady never had to face Belichek (alum of Genius University by the way) and his schemes.

    Nick-YF October 16, 2006, 6:28 pm
  • No. They might not have. Players aren’t simply replaceable parts, no matter what the Pats have shown about moving guys around, roster changes, and how that might not be hindrance to success. Would the Yankees have won with Nomar and not Jeter?

    SF October 16, 2006, 8:02 pm
  • If the refs knew the difference between forward motion and a strip of the quarterback we wouldn’t ever have the Brady conversation.

    walein October 16, 2006, 8:50 pm
  • Zzzzzzzzzzz. Yankees fans crapping on Tom Brady is beyond boring.

    SF October 16, 2006, 8:58 pm
  • …well guys, it depends on how you define great…once again, i catch my sox friends in an inconsistency…brady is “great” because he has won on a good team… jeter doesn’t get that same consideration…manning is a great quarterback, as was dan marino…period…i’m a big montana fan [starting with his days at nd], but let’s face it, his success was as much a product of his environment as anything…brady is the poster-child for that formula…if not surrounded by one of the best teams under the cap in history, bill parcell’s new england legacy, one of the best strategic coaches in the game [bill b], the tuck rule, and the absence of pass interference in the super bowl, he’d be just another journeyman qb, and despite his money wouldn’t be getting dates with hot chicks…and before you get on my case for dissing him, how does it feel to get “jetered”?…

    dc October 16, 2006, 9:02 pm
  • I actually have to agree with you dc. As has been mentioned frequently, Jeter would not be seen quite the same way (even this year) if he were not on the NYY. The same can certainly be said of Tom Brady and the Pats.
    Both natural leaders? Check.
    Both surrounded by talent? Check.
    Both (to a degree) overhyped by the media? Check.
    Both quite talented even when opposing fans wish they weren’t in order to make their arguments easier? Check.
    Both in complete support of their more talented teammates? Che..wait a minute.
    Have to also agree with whomever stated that arguing like this across sports is ludicrous. Being the quarterback in football is like being a pitcher and catcher at the same time in baseball. Not really a comparison, and even that might not be adequate. Your better QBs are probably more pitcher/catcher/bench coach rolled into one.

    Quo October 16, 2006, 11:26 pm
  • …thanks for saying it better than i did quo…actually, i do think brady is a very good qb, at times great…but all of those other factors help elevate him to another level…and yes, there is a bit of humility and “team first” attitude to him that is likable…

    dc October 16, 2006, 11:36 pm
  • Jeter is a Hall of Famer. Is that not an admission of his greatness?
    The only ones caught in double standards here are the ones who try to underplay how good a player Brady is, demeaning his abilities because they don’t like the Patriots and because they have the crutch of a great coach to fall back on as an excuse for Brady’s success.

    SF October 17, 2006, 6:30 am
  • SF – don’t be such a stereotypical Boston partisan. My point wasn’t that your hero Brady is crapola and Manning is the second coming of Montana. It was that Brad was being facile by calling one a winner and the other was rubbish by comparison. Both players have, I think, at least four more seasons left in their careers at the very top. Let’s reserve judgment about who had the better career until then.
    Brady is a winner, no doubt. As is Papi. As is Jetes. Manning has *so far* fallen short of greatness, as has A-Rod. In both cases, my opinion (which is not worth much, I grant you) is that they’re both too good to keep coming up short. Marino is a good example, but he also sticks out because very few QBs of that caliber go their whole careers without being champions.
    And just as the Colts would never trade Peyton, I think it would be ludicrous for the Yanks to get rid of A-Rod. And that’s before you consider the fact that they wouldn’t get equal quality in any trade.
    But I’m afraid Manny’s Mission is also right – the idiots that seem to make up the majority of the Yankeeverse seem to have already decided that A-Rod is “not worthy” of pintstripes and will do all they can to drive him out of town. Sigh.

    Sam October 17, 2006, 9:11 am
  • Brady isn’t just a “winner”. He’s a phenomenal quarterback. This isn’t stereotypical partisanship, no matter what you want to call it. Sam, you were the one that said it was premature to judge either Brady or Manning’s career. It’s not – I disagree with you. Brady could quit today and he’d have had one of the all-time great careers.

    SF October 17, 2006, 10:46 am
  • It’s premature to compare their careers, SF. S’all I’m saying.

    Sam October 17, 2006, 10:56 am
  • …sf…it is inconsistent to annoint brady “phenomenal”, and give only faint praise to guys like manning, who clearly has more talent if not the championship pedigree…i notice you’re careful to give some praise to manning [and jeter], to create the illusion of not being a hypocrite, but then you tend to yank it back with some backhanded wisecrack…you can accuse us of partisanship, but the shoe fits you too my friend…nobody’s saying that brady isn’t good, just that he has also been fortunate to be on good teams with good coaching…if fact i’ll go so far to say he was the absolute perfect qb for that team…but in your mind, apparently the jury’s still out on manning…that doesn’t seem fair to the great players who’ve never won…ted williams comes to mind…jury still out on ted’s career?…

    dc October 17, 2006, 10:09 pm
  • Manning…clearly has more talent
    This is a highly limited piece of analysis. Manning is certainly supremely talented, one of the best in the game (is that backhanded?!). But arguing that he CLEARLY has more talent than Brady is based on simply looking at a yardage comparison, and not a full picture of the player. I would say that it’s not as clear as you say. In fact, I bet many coaches would start a team with Brady and not Manning. That doesn’t mean Manning isn’t great (he is). But he’s great at different things than Brady is, the kind of things that get him automatic nods as the “best”. That isn’t obvious to me.
    And yes, I am biased. There’s no getting past that fact, and I would never deny it. It also means I have seen almost every one of Brady’s performaces in the last 5 years, though, and have been watching football for 30. I am not seduced simplistically by the trophies, though they do have impact on my thoughts. The QB position is a very difficult one, possibly the hardest position in all of professional sports. Brady shouldn’t be underestimated (which he is, almost reflexively, by those who wish him to be a lesser player than he actually is), or at least automatically under-Manninged just because he throws a few fewer touchdown passes, or throws less efficiently. It’s also why the Ted Williams comparison isn’t that great; Williams played a position of far less importance to his sport (this is why cross-sport comparisons are pretty foolish, as I stated before), not even taking into the fact that he missed his prime due to the war and may have eventually been the holder of the greatest set of statistics in baseball history, a sport that is much easier and far more valid to measure through statistics. That is a key point and difference between football and baseball.

    SF October 18, 2006, 7:53 am
  • …sf…so i’m foolish for trying to compare across sports…i’ve been called worse on this site…but my point was that ted williams is among the greatest athletes of any sport [the specific sport is irrelevant] not to have played on a championship team…does that tarnish his legacy?…hell no…just like marino, manning and others should not have points taken away because they never won…you have to admit that brady was not highly regarded coming out of college…he was the backup to drew henson…but maybe his college coaches missed something that the pro coaches saw…i think he is a bright guy [more so than he’s given credit for], and he’s a good leader [you can tell the team has confidence in him]…and he’s clutch…i’ve watched him a fair amount of times too, and i think his passing is more accurate that most of the guys playing right now…but, having said all that [and no, i didn’t choke on it…it’s sincere], brady has less talent than some of the other guys mentioned, and he’s not “phenomenal”…what he has been is an integral part of ne’s super bowl success, along with a lot of other dedicated players and coaches, and nobody can take that away from him…not even me…

    dc October 18, 2006, 10:02 am
  • Backup to Brian Griese. The greatest bum of all time.

    Brad October 18, 2006, 10:12 am
  • Michael Vick has more talent in his finger than Brady or Manning or any other QB on the list -what’s it get him or his orgainzation or fans? Jersey’s? Ticket sales?

    Brad October 18, 2006, 10:13 am
  • …griese, henson, aren’t they the same bum?…thanks for the correction brad…
    …i forgot to include vick in my list of lovable losers…

    dc October 18, 2006, 10:25 am
  • …setting the record straight…
    …to be fair, i should put brady’s [good] college record in perspective…the following is from the pats website player profile:
    “Brady earned three letters at Michigan (1997-99) and recorded a 20-5 record as a two-year starter for the Wolverines … Ranks third in Michigan history with 710 attempts and 442 completions, fourth with 5,351 yards and 62.3 completion percentage and fifth with 35 touchdown passes … Completed 31 of 56 attempts for 375 yards against Ohio State to establish school game-records, breaking the old marks of 52 attempts for 372 yards by Scott Dreisbach vs. Virginia in 1995 and 29 completions by Todd Collins vs. Oklahoma State in 1992.
    Served as Brian Griese’s backup during the Wolverines national championship season.”

    dc October 18, 2006, 10:37 am
  • Really, Vick is more talented than those guys? In what way? He’s surely faster, leagues better as a runner, and dangerous in ways that Manning and Brady are clearly not. He’s a pretty bad pocket passer from what I have seen. What is the definition of “talent”, then? Talent does NOT equal potential. I think the defintion of talent is a moving target: potential talent unmanifested is simply not talent.
    This whole idea that “talent” = “athletic ability only” is ridiculously limited. Brady may not be the thrower that Manning is, but Manning is not the performer Brady is. That makes them different. It also make Brady, to ME, more of a complete, and henceforth talented, player.
    And DC: I was NOT calling YOU foolish. Do not take it that way. Early in the thread I mentioned that A-A comparisons of players in different sports is something of a futile and ludicrous exercise. There are so many differences from sport to sport, from role to role, that you have to so heavily qualify the comparisons that it becomes a gangly endeavor. Not that I don’t mind indulging in it, but I find it a bit nutso ;-)

    SF October 18, 2006, 12:18 pm
  • Vick’s a better athlete. Quite possibly the greatest athlete the NFL has ever seen. But he’s a crap QB. Drew Brees is better than him, fer crying out loud.

    Sam October 18, 2006, 1:03 pm
  • …”futile”, “ludicrous”, and “nutso”, but at least i’m not “foolish”…i know [hope] you’re kidding, but in the context i was making the comparison [i.e. williams is generally regarded as one of the greatest baseball players never to be on a championship team…players in other sports can make the same claim], the comparison is valid…

    dc October 18, 2006, 1:31 pm

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