Hell Yes

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98 comments… add one
  • woohoo!!!

    SF July 18, 2008, 8:32 am
  • Dot dot dot?

    Atheose July 18, 2008, 8:34 am
  • Oh, is that Pawtucket? It’s too early to post a picture of Ortiz homering and not include a link!
    Chris Carter also hit his 20th homer of the season last night, already passing his total amount for 2007.

    Atheose July 18, 2008, 8:37 am
  • yeah, Carter is crushing the ball.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 9:06 am
  • He’s crushing it so much it gets posted twice!

    Atheose July 18, 2008, 9:08 am
  • Great…and just in time to give the Sox a boost against us next week! not that it’s going to matter…we have RICHIE SEXSON BABY!!! Big Papi’s got nothing on BIG WIFFIE!!! (loves to K)

    krueg July 18, 2008, 9:35 am
  • Big Papi has nothing on Big Wiffie!!! (richie the K machine)

    krueg July 18, 2008, 9:36 am
  • Double…my bad.

    krueg July 18, 2008, 9:36 am
  • yeah, sorry ’bout the double.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 9:56 am
  • Kreug,
    We know how this goes…we’ve seen it before.
    Yanks get player from trash heap that was not wanted by terrible team X
    Everyone trashes the move and pokes fun at NY.
    Said player then hits a couple bombs off of Red Sox pitching in first series out, which begins the “Cashman is genious” chants in the bleachers.
    Said player becomes fan favorite, and people call talk radio all day about how “all he needed was a change in scenery”
    Said player plays far above his ability for a month.
    Said player falls apart at start of next year.
    Said player is released shortly after the start of the year.
    Rinse and repeat when necessary, man.
    ha.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 9:59 am
  • Sorry.
    Krueg.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 10:00 am
  • Also of note,
    The Red Sox have inked their number one pick, Casey Kelley.
    Good job by them to get him locked up –
    He immediately went to the number six spot on the prospect list.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 10:01 am
  • Now Theo can concentrate on NOT letting Jason Bay go to Tampa Bay.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 10:02 am
  • If Big Wiffie helps us get into the playoffs again…color me happy. I’m just Mr. Pessimism and I think this is the year they fall short. Funny how SF’s have more confidence in my team than I do…

    krueg July 18, 2008, 10:08 am
  • I wonder how much of a bonus they gave him. The kid was a quarterback recruit at Tennessee. Glad they did it because I wasn’t really expecting them to be able to. Pretty cool…
    Bryan Price, the supplemental pick, is just ahead of Chris Carter at 13th in the Sox’ system. Not shabby.
    Sox Prospects’ scouting report on Kelly:
    Athletic frame with smooth agility. Strong present power, very high power potential. Good looking swing, a little on the long side, but the ball comes off his bat well. Average speed. May project as a 3B down the line, but also played OF and pitched in high school. Strong, accurate arm. Also a highly-touted quarterback recruit for Tennessee. While Kelly has focused on his shortstop skills in high school, the organization thinks that he may end up as a pitcher over the long term – but will give him a chance in the infield initially. As a pitcher, Kelly’s skills are actually quite advanced for his age, mixing in a low 90s fastball, a hard curve, and a nice change, all with good command.
    Price looks more like a project:
    Arm without a lot of mileage. Projectable frame. Price languished for two years at the back of the Rice bullpen, but impressed in 2008, rocketing his draft stock up the charts. Smooth 3/4 delivery, but a lot of seemingly unnecessary movement. Not a lot of deception. His fastball sits between 92-95 mph with a nice tail running in on righties. Very nice 83-85 mph slider. Changeup sits around 85-86 and needs a lot of work – he shows it a bit too much. His command can be erratic at times, and he can get rattled on occasion.

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 10:10 am
  • Ahh, missed it: Kelly received a $3 million signing bonus. *long, low whistle*

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 10:11 am
  • “Funny how SF’s have more confidence in my team than I do…”
    Too many times have I counted the Yankees out only to have them stomp on my balls, lesson learned. They will come back at some point.

    LocklandSF July 18, 2008, 10:14 am
  • “They will come back at some point.”
    2009

    krueg July 18, 2008, 10:25 am
  • Bob Lobel is claiming RIGHT NOW on WEEI (he’s guest hosting with Steve Burton) that Manny was fined “six figures” for shoving Jack McCormick.
    Lobel also is alleging that the Red Sox FO believes that Manny, in his pinch-hitting appearance against the Yankees, the one where he looked at three straight pitches, refused to swing the bat as an “eff-you” for the fine.
    This means Lobel either will guest host a lot more or has guest hosted his last show.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 18, 2008, 10:30 am
  • Lobel says the “six figues” was given to a charity.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 18, 2008, 10:31 am
  • How is he claiming that? Because those are both interesting guesses, ones that would be easy enough to surmise and make sound legitimate. I’ve heard that speculated before.
    Is he at least saying, “I have it on good authority,” or, “a source says…”

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 10:37 am
  • yeah, I was listening to that as well, Bill. I seem to think that Lobel is kind of projecting. I mean, maybe it’s right, but how the hell would he know this all along, and not have said anything about it until now.
    Plus, I do believe Manny left the bat on his shoulder on purpose. He does that kind of crap. When he wants the day off, you know, he wants the day OFF. Tito should know better than to ask Manny to come in and pinch hit in the midst of everything that was going down, plus being plunked twice the night before by a very scared Mike Mussina.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 10:41 am
  • “Is he at least saying, “I have it on good authority,” or, “a source says…” ”
    No. It’s Lobel. He’s, um, above that.
    After he states this, Burton says, “So are we breaking news here.”
    Lobel says, “I think so.”
    Hey, I have no idea if it’s true. As you said, it certainly sounds plausible. But I do think that Lobel knows better than to go on the radio and make up stuff.
    Lobel, I believe, is considered to be very well connected with sources.
    So, I dunno, call it food for thought? We’ll see if this goes anywhere.
    And it certainly appeared to me at the time that Manny had no interest in swinging the bat. He just didn’t have that “look” in his eyes.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 18, 2008, 10:45 am
  • Oh, oh. Here come the Manny-bashing calls.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 18, 2008, 10:49 am
  • All right. I have to get back to work.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 18, 2008, 10:51 am
  • He’s backtracking on it now..
    Now it’s turned into “I think the office” and “it seems to be the feeling”.
    Initially, Lobel implied that the office considered Manny’s AB against Mo that night carried as much negative weight in the front office as Nomar’s sitting on the bench while the team brawled because his wrist hurt.
    I think Lobel just realized what it is he said, and is now turning it into what “he thinks” and what he is “guessing” the front offices’ reaction and future moves.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 10:52 am
  • Oh, oh. Here come the Manny-bashing calls.
    Lets freaking hope so.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 10:53 am
  • If Lobel is right, then the Sox have to get Tex or Holliday and let him go at the end of the year, but there’s just no way to know if he’s right — or even if he thinks he’s right.

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 11:00 am
  • absolutely, Paul.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 11:07 am
  • Then we can see Manny DHing for NY for the next four years, which is fine, as long as we’re getting a decent replacement.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 11:10 am
  • Wow, if he’s right, they should trade him ASAP – just like Nomah.
    Throwing away an at-bat is the most serious charge yet and in an important situation. That’s terrible if true. It’s one thing to assault someone. It’s another to mess with the integrity of the game.
    But let me ask this: Would anyone be surprised? Just looking at that AB, there was something off. Since when does he let three strikes go by without an attempt? He’s too good for that.
    Sad, really.

    A YF July 18, 2008, 11:10 am
  • Tic, tic, tic, tic, tic…

    LocklandSF July 18, 2008, 11:11 am
  • Would anyone be surprised
    Nope.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 11:16 am
  • Ok, after reading up on this, I don’t think that fine if even possible. Lobel might have been drunk, wouldn’t be the first time.

    LocklandSF July 18, 2008, 11:19 am
  • Brad, just emailed you a picture you are SURE to love!

    John - YF July 18, 2008, 11:22 am
  • Lockland – reading up as in player’s agreement or just through the thread? I’m wondering what the max fine could be via the CBA (and I wonder if it could be appealled).
    The sox have tried to off load Manny for so long now, with no luck. I wonder if they will end up letting his option go (and if he becomes a free agent, wuold they get comp draft picks?)

    dw (sf) July 18, 2008, 11:26 am
  • I find it hard to believe Manny would just stand there and strike out to make a point…he is Manny, but that sounds pretty extreme?

    krueg July 18, 2008, 11:29 am
  • Hasn’t there been times where he refused to pintch hit? kind of similar I guess.

    dw (sf) July 18, 2008, 11:34 am
  • “wuold they get comp draft picks?”
    Yes.
    “he is Manny, but that sounds pretty extreme?”
    Looking back, it’s very hard for me to believe otherwise. He’s too good not to follow off at least one pitch – or swing for that matter.
    SFs – you tell me – in all your years of watching Manny has he ever (besides IBB) gone through an AB without swinging once?

    A YF July 18, 2008, 11:36 am
  • Reading posts about this topic from other sources, all saying the CBA doesn’t allow for fines of that size, I’m still digging for the actual language, but I’m pretty slammed with real work right now.
    Also…
    “The sox have tried to off load Manny for so long now, with no luck.”
    This isn’t 100% true, in the past when he’s requested a trade, they have put feelers out at his request. When they put him on waivers, I think they were just calling his bluff, since they knew at the time, with the money, in the market at the time, nobody would bite.

    LocklandSF July 18, 2008, 11:37 am
  • Nice, John.
    Jesus do I hate him. Anyhow, Krueg, I don’t believe for one second that Manny is above that. Has he ever shown that he’s above anything? I mean, if you look at it some of the stupidity that spewes from this jerk’s pores, you can come to no other conclusion that it’s plausable.
    Great hitter – check.
    Awesome to watch swing the bat, and I love when he hits it out onto the highway, but my distaste for him has rapidly overtaken my love for his game.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 11:38 am
  • ” but my distaste for him has rapidly overtaken my love for his game.”
    I’m about there too. But then again I haven’t been able to watch him swing 162 days a year for for the past 8 years. If the Yanks pick him up, I gotta say the fan in me would take over. In a heartbeat.
    Another question: Is he still “redeemed” for climbing into the green wall?

    A YF July 18, 2008, 11:50 am
  • It’s not the climbing into the wall, or socializing with the fans that has gotten me. Those things are actually entertaining, but rather, the other issues are the ones that have grown.
    If he just stopped with the drama, I’d be fine with him.

    Brad July 18, 2008, 12:05 pm
  • I just dislike him because he is so good and he kills us…the whole “manny being manny” thing is funny to me. Abreu is not good OR funny!!!

    krueg July 18, 2008, 12:20 pm
  • Easy, krueg. Abreu was very good and without him they probably don’t win the division in 2006. Still a genius trade even with his meh this year.
    And few compare to Manny – one of the very best hitters of his generation. It’s a good debate about where he rates relative to Pujols and Thomas.

    A YF July 18, 2008, 12:31 pm
  • Holy crap the comments are now most recent first!

    Atheose July 18, 2008, 12:31 pm
  • Huh? Not for me!

    LocklandSF July 18, 2008, 12:41 pm
  • They were for a brief moment. Weirded me out, let me tell you…

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 12:42 pm
  • A: I will never relent on my hatred for Abreu…simply because he is too cool to play D. Yes, he has contributed, even could this year but I still dislike him and want him gone. Don’t you???

    krueg July 18, 2008, 12:52 pm
  • SFs – you tell me – in all your years of watching Manny has he ever (besides IBB) gone through an AB without swinging once?
    He’s done it several times to my memory, but that’s usually when he’s fooled on the strike-3 pitch like if a curveball or changeup really fools him. Mo throws cutters and more cutters. Manny couldn’t have been fooled.

    Atheose July 18, 2008, 12:58 pm
  • (read with an old-cowpoke accent)
    Sounds like we got us a little conspiracy theory!!!

    krueg July 18, 2008, 1:04 pm
  • Ok, I can’t find anything in the CBA about a limit on club fines or league fines, this is all I found in relation to Club Fines:
    “(2) Club Fines. A fine imposed by a Club pursuant to Regulation
    5 of the Uniform Player’s Contract in excess of $2,000 may not
    be deducted from the Player’s salary until such fine is finally upheld
    in the Grievance Procedure or the time in which to file a Grievance
    has expired.”

    LocklandSF July 18, 2008, 1:14 pm
  • LocklandSF July 18, 2008, 1:26 pm
  • I concur with Atheose on a swing-less AB by Manny. If my memory serves though (which is questionable), it does tend to be a short 3-strike AB when it ever happens. Like two borderline strikes followed by a knee-bender or something nasty. Again, not what he faced against the Yankees recently.
    This all sounds bad, I know, but am I the only one who isn’t reducing this to some sort of ultimatum by the Red Sox? I might be missing some of the story, but insinuations of taking a one-AB vacation doesn’t strike me as particularly odd, given the past accusations of quitting for a third of a season. Why does this rise to the level of “Manny Must Go” more so than in the past? Genuinely curious, not trying to be dense here.

    FenSheaParkway July 18, 2008, 1:31 pm
  • Wow, nice find Lockland! That third pitch actually does match up more with what I was trying to describe above than how I remembered it live. I’m still undecided about the whole thing, but it’s nice to be reminded of the visual.

    FenSheaParkway July 18, 2008, 1:35 pm
  • Lockland, I don’t remember those pitches being like that–I remembered them all as being his usual mid-90’s cutter/fastball. Anyone else’s memory stretch back that far?

    Atheose July 18, 2008, 1:38 pm
  • Yeah, there’s no way in hell that Gameday is accurate. Look at every other Mo appearance this year via gameday: every single pitch is a fastball/cutter 92-95mph. Gameday is wrong.

    Atheose July 18, 2008, 1:45 pm
  • Based on Gameday, it looks like all three of those pitches were borderline, and Manny at the third called strike is checking his swing. Not exactly “standing with his bat on his shoulder.”
    Sounds like Lobel was saying what he wanted to think, not what actually happened.

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 2:15 pm
  • 1. Does anyone how Gameday records those pitches – the speed, the break, the location relative to the strike zone?
    I’ve always taken that with a grain of salt.
    2. Keep in mind that, for now at least, we have no way of knowing the accuracy of Lobel’s comments. I realize I’m the one who posted them, but I tried to do it carefully to avoid the impression that they were being reported as fact.
    That said, I suspect that there’s a pretty strong element of truth there. And to repeat, Lobel (I hope, anyway) would know the danger of just making up stuff and reporting it as fact, and it’s been my understanding that he’s pretty well connected within the Boston sports scene.
    So it would seem as though Manny’s days in Boston probably are numbered. (And that thought just kills me. When he’s dialed in, it’s a thing of beauty.) However, this Sox FO hasn’t been wrong when it’s come their their own FAs (Pedro, Damon, Mueller, Millar, Todd Walker, Trot), and you can throw Nomie in there, too.
    And what does that say about Boras? He pretty much trashed his relationship with Alex R. Manny signed with him in the off-season and he just seems to be playing for a smaller and smaller payday all the time.
    (… I need to carry that thought our farther and I just don’t have the time right now. I gotta get back to work.)

    I'm Bill McNeal July 18, 2008, 2:19 pm
  • All this noise suggests to me that Manny is being extended for another 6 years. That’s generally how this works.

    Nick-YF July 18, 2008, 2:36 pm
  • All this noise suggests to me that Manny is being extended for another 6 years. That’s generally how this works.
    Truer words were never spoken.

    Atheose July 18, 2008, 2:38 pm
  • Ok, thanks to the magic of MLB.tv, I was able to watch the entire AB again.
    1. Manny takes a step towards the mound, like he wants to swing, but doesn’t, nasty pitch, questionable strike.
    2. 93MPH, over the black outside, nasty pitch, no shot.
    3. Check swing on another nasty pitch low/away.
    He didn’t tank that AB, from what I can see, Mo is just that nasty.

    LocklandSF July 18, 2008, 2:41 pm
  • And apparently, so is Lobel.

    FenSheaParkway July 18, 2008, 2:55 pm
  • I went back and looked at the Strike 3, which is the only pitch they have video of. It was headed outside, then dropped back over the outside corner. It wasn’t as borderline as GameDay makes it out to be, but it wasn’t something I’d blame a hitter for taking either. It was a nasty pitch.
    Manny leans in like he’s about to swing and takes the bat off his shoulder; I don’t know if he was thinking about swinging and got fooled into laying off what was ultimately, or acting, or wondering why Madonna was sitting in the right field bleachers, but I do know it’s not clear enough to say Manny was giving the Red Sox a “f*ck you” without any kind of sourcing.

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 2:56 pm
  • Beat me to it, Lock. Good work. Thanks.

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 2:57 pm
  • or wondering why Madonna was sitting in the right field bleachers
    HAHAHA!

    Atheose July 18, 2008, 3:12 pm
  • Before we completely discredit Lobel, shouldn’t we let this story/non-story develop? It seems that Manny and this front office have, well, a complicated relationship, one in which it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility that people within the FO could perceive Manny tanking an at bat. What if a Gordon Edes or some other beat writer verifies that, indeed, there is some truth to Lobel’s story? There are obvious reasons for Lobel to make up a story (searching for relevancy, getting attention, etc.) but he is a journalist and he just might have connections in the FO. No?

    Nick-YF July 18, 2008, 3:12 pm
  • To paraphrase Homer Simpson, “Technology. the cause of, and solution to, all life’s problems.”
    (Homer, of course, said “beer” instead of “technology.” It was the prohibition episode, where Springfield bans alcohol consumption after Bart accidentally gets drunk during a parade and it’s seen on TV. Then Homer discovers kegs of discarded beer and realizes he can make some money so he delivers them to Mo via hollowed-out bowling balls through an underground tunnel. Then he makes his own booze.
    Rex Banner comes to town to stop him … wait, I’m really busy at work.)

    I'm Bill McNeal July 18, 2008, 3:12 pm
  • You are exactly right, Nick.
    Where’s there’s smoke, there tends to be fire.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 18, 2008, 3:13 pm
  • Another thing I’m curious about: Say Manny did intend to perform a one-AB strike. If he didn’t let on that he would do it, and he at least *acted* like he was trying in the AB, would anyone have noticed? Or would it have just gone by the boards as an unfortunate plate appearance?
    I guess what I’m saying is that the protest wouldn’t be much of a protest unless he tipped someone off that it was going to happen. It would be like a group of activists organizing a boycott secretly – people might notice the result but not the intent, hence, no message.

    FenSheaParkway July 18, 2008, 3:26 pm
  • I think you’re right Nick about what the FO might perceive. Just don’t know about the basis for such thoughts…

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 3:32 pm
  • FSP, from what I can gather from Lobel’s words, Manny was bothered by the Sox’s front office steep punishment and he reacted in a manner that showed that. I don’t know if that means he was surly around front office types, or told teammates he was pissed or what. But the veracity of the story hinges not so much on whether Manny, in fact, tanked an at-bat, but whether or not someone in the front office, in fact, told Lobel the story.

    Nick-YF July 18, 2008, 3:34 pm
  • whether or not someone in the front office, in fact, told Lobel the story.
    Which is part of the problem, no? I don’t think he made that claim, and in my opinion, you can’t just start saying this stuff without a source or without a clear “in my opinion” statement. He made neither.

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 3:42 pm
  • That all makes sense, Nick. I guess my point is that a player being bent out of shape about a team’s actions is not really future-altering news. Happens all the time and often the player stays with the team after everything is patched up. I’m gathering from all of this that the at-bat is the crucial piece to the story, because it goes beyond the squabbling and directly affects the team’s fortunes. That’s the crux of Lobel’s assertions, right? Without the tanked at-bat then it’s just in-fighting, which I’m sad to report has lost the ability to shock or anger me.

    FenSheaParkway July 18, 2008, 3:46 pm
  • “The thing that most people are forgetting and haven’t talked about is the strikeout in Yankee Stadium,” Lobel said. “The bat on the shoulder for the three pitches from Mariano Rivera. That was a big [expletive] to the Red Sox after the fine. I’m just telling you … there are things in the front office that are perceived … I’m saying that there is a strong feeling that that [three-pitch strikeout] was the message to the Red Sox and it’s a strong feeling that that’s unacceptable … there’s a feeling that he didn’t give it his all, let’s put it that way … I’m just saying the front office has not forgotten that moment. It’s akin to Nomar sitting on the bench [in a game in which Derek Jeter dove into the stands at Yankee Stadium in 2004]. It’s the same thing. It’s an at-bat that resonated very strongly in the front office.”
    This could be his opinion. This could be based on what he’s heard from people in the front office. It’s hard to figure from these words. Futher clarification is needed. But, at this point, I wouldn’t rule out either possibility.

    Nick-YF July 18, 2008, 3:55 pm
  • krueg: “Don’t you???”
    I can see what’s so infuriating about Abreu, but I just try to keep him in perspective – he’s not someone you can expect that will carry the team. He’s a complementary bat, not a huge run producer. The Phans in Philly never seemed to understand that. And if you fall into a similar trap he also disappoint.
    As for Manny, I can’t see how anyone else would know unless he pulled a Papelbon and actually told the media what he was thinking. But I have little doubt that’s what the front office would think. Another tension with front office has been brewing, with all of the recent incidents, and Henry speaking out the other day is just a further example of that. He doesn’t get involved easily.
    Me, watching that AB, it seems strange. There’s hardly a check swing in there – it wasn’t a real attempt – and when I watched it live Remy commented on how Manny didn’t take the bat off his shoulders. Like I said, he’s too good of a hitter to get fooled three pitches in a row without at least one offering. If I was going to give him any out, it would be the fact that he was pinch hitting and maybe wasn’t into the game.
    We’ll never know one way or another.

    A YF July 18, 2008, 3:59 pm
  • I honestly don’t know how one can read more into this story than the fact that people are angry at each other.  This is a massive game of telephone at this point, in fact there is no direct accusation, just a “perception”. If Manny (or whoever Manny told) wants to come clean and verify Lobel’s story, then it’s just a big fat sensationalist pile of steaming you-know-what done to get attention, Lobel getting used as a mouthpiece by the front office.

    That’s nothing about Manny, the despicable act of pushing an elder club employee (for which I pray he was punished in some format) or Manny’s foolishness, or loose lips regarding his contract, or any other idiocy.  But this Lobel story, until sources are verified and disclosed, is a hunk of sh*t until proven otherwise and effectively a bunch of name-calling.

    And lest anyone accuse me of carrying water for Manny, he’s no historical favorite of mine, though I certainly enjoy his play and don’t mind the aloofness as much as others at this site.  See this for example (maybe a little overstated, but still, you get the point).  But Lobel needs to do better than “there are things in the front office that are perceived”.  That’s no smoking gun, that’s just an angry front office person getting after Manny.  An opinion, which is all this is, is proof of nothing.

    The angry mobs with pitchforks should back off, as far as I am concerned, until a lot more is proven.
    The funniest thing is that we are subjected, over and over, to how perfect Mariano Rivera is by a lot of people, including SFs. And that at-bat was absolutely stellar pitching. But now, of course, Manny was tanking, it wasn’t great pitching. Not sure everyone can have it both ways. I re-watched strike three on MLB.com, and Manny’s knees buckled and he had cocked his bat, the ball was at best on the black, perhaps, maybe even a couple of inches off the plate. He did a superlative acting job, if he was tanking that third strike. Fooled everyone at our site. Of course now, yeah, it was so obvious that he was tanking. You see what you want to see, I guess. Now, weeks later, it’s reasonable to claim “something was off”, though at the time nothing was at all remarked upon or worth a comment, rather a celebration. I call BS, especially on all the Monday-morning quarterbacking going on, and in particular because it was Rivera, who pitched a great at-bat to Manny from what I can tell.
    Going for the elusive throw strikes strategy, interesting…
    Posted by:LocklandSF | Sunday, July 06, 2008 at 11:04 PM
    Aaaarrrgh, Manny the K. Three pitches.
    Posted by:Hudson | Sunday, July 06, 2008 at 11:04 PM
    Way to swing the bat Manny.
    Posted by:Atheose | Sunday, July 06, 2008 at 11:04 PM
    Bill, hasn’t your Daddy told you: No name calling, trollboy!
    Sit down! Sit down Secretary!
    Posted by:A YF | Sunday, July 06, 2008 at 11:04 PM
    Wow. It takes balls to just pitch to him, and Manny out on 3 pitches. Wow.
    Posted by:Lar | Sunday, July 06, 2008 at 11:04 PM
    Manny goes down pinch-watching.
    Posted by:Sam-YF | Sunday, July 06, 2008 at 11:05 PM
    Guess it’s gotta be Oki for the 9th, since if Paps came in and got them out, they’d still need another arm for the 10th. Unless Paps has two innings in him.
    Posted by:Hudson | Sunday, July 06, 2008 at 11:05 PM
    Don’t hurt his feelings, Bill. Politicians get their feelings hurt easily.
    Posted by:Atheose | Sunday, July 06, 2008 at 11:06 PM
    Wait, and so not one word yet from Gammo on Manny’s recent assault record? Shocking!
    Posted by:A YF | Sunday, July 06, 2008 at 11:06 PM

    SF July 18, 2008, 4:09 pm
  • “The thing that most people are forgetting and haven’t talked about is the strikeout in Yankee Stadium,” Lobel said. “The bat on the shoulder for the three pitches from Mariano Rivera.
    First error: The bat wasn’t on his shoulders. No mention that those pitches were incredibly filthy.
    That was a big [expletive] to the Red Sox after the fine. I’m just telling you … there are things in the front office that are perceived … I’m saying that there is a strong feeling that that [three-pitch strikeout] was the message to the Red Sox and it’s a strong feeling that that’s unacceptable … there’s a feeling that he didn’t give it his all, let’s put it that way …
    Ok, so he’s not saying he knows this. He’s not saying he doesn’t. He’s not saying either way. That’s just irresponsible, all the way around. If you’ve got a source, say so. If you’re bsing, say so. This is just cowardice.
    I’m just saying the front office has not forgotten that moment. It’s akin to Nomar sitting on the bench [in a game in which Derek Jeter dove into the stands at Yankee Stadium in 2004]. It’s the same thing. It’s an at-bat that resonated very strongly in the front office.”
    Says who? The reporter who was just fired by his employer and has no job currently, with a financial incentive to be asked back onto WEEI? If the principal owners of the Sox were going to leak this kind of information, wouldn’t they do it to someone who’s actually employed?
    This could be his opinion. This could be based on what he’s heard from people in the front office. It’s hard to figure from these words. Futher clarification is needed.
    This is exactly the problem. Until he can say he actually spoke to someone who matters in the FO and not just a low-level guy or limited partner who hates Manny, what reason has Lobel given us to believe what he has to say?
    But, at this point, I wouldn’t rule out either possibility.
    I would rule out trusting the man with a financial stake in being as controversial as possible unless he actually has some evidence or a source.

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 4:13 pm
  • “Fooled everyone at our site.”
    I don’t know if that’s true. Who would ever think then write that Manny just tanked that AB?
    I know I thought it was strange. But never would I think he’d go up there with the game on the line and completely give away an AB. Still, it’s pretty obvious that there wasn’t a real attempt made to hit the ball. Only if we knew what was going on behind the scenes would we perhaps intuit something else.
    Still, here Ath had the sarcasm and Remy commented on it too. Didn’t Mo even say something in the post-game? For Manny to not even try is glaring. Given what was happening at the time, the story is very reasonable.
    But again, we’ll never know what was happening in his head.

    A YF July 18, 2008, 4:17 pm
  • One man’s “not even trying” is another man’s not swinging at pitches he thinks are off the strikes or designed to make him it into an out.
    That Strike 3 looked like a ball until it veered back over the outside corner. I don’t blame Manny for not swinging at that one. The other two also appeared to be borderline corner pitches. Some who have seen the at-bat said the count could easily have been 2-0 entering that final pitch. Oversimplifying the at-bat is the first problem with this whole scenario. Everyone focused on Manny not swinging, as if Rivera is a AAA scrub throwing meatballs down the middle while Manny picked his nose with his back to the plate.

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 4:21 pm
  • The bat wasn’t on his shoulders.
    Come on. You don’t need to be a homer to recognize that he didn’t make an offering at one pitch. Remy calls it straight (which is why I like him). Manny is too good to not swing, especially in that situation.
    And, Paul, you’re trying a bit too hard to discredit the guy. Again, would it really surprise anyone if that’s what some in the front office thought? About Manny?
    The real point is: What were Manny’s intentions?
    But again, we’ll never know. So why are you guys getting so upset? To me, it’s an interesting take on that AB, but that’s all it is. Truth here is very relative.

    A YF July 18, 2008, 4:22 pm
  • Meanwhile, I get a huge backlash when pointing out obvious facts of history. Imagine the conniption fit if I suggested then that Manny tanked the AB. Not that I thought that – but it did seem really strange. He just wasn’t himself up there. I’m offered one possible out, but on MythBusters they’d call this story plausible.

    A YF July 18, 2008, 4:24 pm
  • “off the strikes” = “off the plate”

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 4:24 pm
  • Again, would it really surprise anyone if that’s what some in the front office thought? About Manny?
    No, it wouldn’t. But I would like someone to actually say the FO thought that and attribute it, instead of saying “The front office thinks this, but, uh, it’s an impression, and no, I’m not really reporting it, but yeah, trust me, it’s there. Honest!” Otherwise it’s a pretty terrible accusation carried by the supposed weight of the Sox FO with absolutely no backing to it.

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 4:26 pm
  • “I would rule out trusting the man with a financial stake in being as controversial as possible unless he actually has some evidence or a source.”
    Well, that’s why I say we should wait this out, but we certainly shouldn’t rule out everything a reporter says just because he hasn’t yet provided a source. Every journalist has a financial stake in saying something controversial to attract readers/listeners. He/She also is motivated to be credible lest he lose these same listeners and readers in the future. Lobel may be a hack, a cynical hack. He may also have something here. I agree he has to elaborate, clarify, etc. But should we dismiss him out of hand immediately because he didn’t lay it all out on a talk show this morning? It could very well be irresponsible talk he engaged in this morning. Or it could be the beginning of a story.

    Nick-YF July 18, 2008, 4:26 pm
  • “I was kind of surprised that Manny didn’t take the bat off his shoulder,” said Rivera. “I don’t know what he was thinking. That’s Manny.”

    A YF July 18, 2008, 4:30 pm
  • It could very well be irresponsible talk he engaged in this morning.
    If he has the source, then he would say it, I think. It increrases his credibility and gives his comments that much more weight. Without a source, named or unnamed, it was irresponsible talk he engaged in. Even if he backs it up later, that doesn’t make his initial salvo any less irresponsible. That’s because it’s irresponsible to accuse someone, even under the oblique guise of describing what someone else thinks, without a source saying that’s what they think.
    Based on what I’ve seen of the at-bat, based on the fact that Manny was fined a week before the pinch-hit appearance and raked during that span, based on the fact that an unemployed reporter is an unlikely source for the Red Sox to leak such sentiments to, and based on the fact that the reporter himself provided not even the obligatory “One front-office source” phraseology to back up his claims, I feel comfortable dismissing the accusation until or unless Lobel or someone else can come up with something that actually carries validity.

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 5:01 pm
  • From the Globe:
    According to industry sources, Ramirez, in addition to apologizing to McCormick, paid a fine of between $10,000 to $15,000, with the money going to an agreed-upon charity. The fine is at the lower end of that range.Reports that Ramirez had been assessed a six-figure fine are not true, and Red Sox officials have not raised the issue that Ramirez’s strikeout against Mariano Rivera in a pinch-hit appearance July 6 was in any way related to the discipline administered.
    So the one factual piece of Lobel’s rant — the amount of the fine, an actual, literal amount that can be checked (as opposed to decifering the mindset of a player or an owner) — is incorrect, according to an actual source contacted by the Globe. That just about destroys what little credibility Lobel had on this topic.

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 5:04 pm
  • “If he has the source, then he would say it, I think.”
    Are you sure you’re a reporter? Since when does a reporter name an anonymous source?
    “Based on what I’ve seen of the at-bat”
    And you’re unbiased?
    Look, Paul, a lot of very credible sources thought that AB was “different”. We’ll never know what was going on in his head. But since you’ve already said you wouldn’t be surprised if some in the front office believe that, then I’m not really sure what you’re trying to prove.
    You can’t prove Manny innocent. Not even he can do that. It’s a plausible story, but we’ll never know the truth outside of what “some” think. At this point Manny’s credibility is lower than Lobel’s so it’s obvious why this story has legs.

    A YF July 18, 2008, 5:13 pm
  • By the way, we could debate something more substantive – like whether Manny should have been suspended for assaulting two people in the organization…

    A YF July 18, 2008, 5:15 pm
  • Oh, boy. Here comes the morality police.
    Gimme an effin break.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 18, 2008, 5:26 pm
  • Since when does a reporter name an anonymous source?
    I’m not asking him to name his source. I’m asking him to at least say he has a source, anonymous or otherwise.

    Paul SF July 18, 2008, 5:48 pm
  • For some needed light-hearted fun, read the uniwatch column on the original Back to the Future night:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=lukas/080718&sportCat=mlb

    A YF July 18, 2008, 5:48 pm
  • Even a young Alexander the Great got into the act:
    http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1010/991413293_c4a1e67c61.jpg?v=0

    A YF July 18, 2008, 5:53 pm
  • A YF July 18, 2008, 5:56 pm
  • And for more laughter there’s this Yankee starting lineup:
    Derek Jeter SS
    Bobby Abreu RF
    Alex Rodriguez 3B
    Jorge Posada DH
    Richie Sexson 1B
    Robinson Cano 2B
    Melky Cabrera CF
    Jose Molina C
    Brett Gardner LF

    A YF July 18, 2008, 5:57 pm
  • Paul, yeah that Gordon Edes report about the fine does put Lobell’s credibility in greater question.

    Nick-YF July 18, 2008, 6:29 pm
  • A YF says, “And you’re unbiased?”
    Pot, meet kettle.
    What a turd.

    I'mBillMcNeal July 18, 2008, 10:17 pm

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