Is History Repeating Itself?

Arod_varitek 

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91 comments… add one
  • Turning point!!!!

    dw (sf) August 12, 2009, 10:13 am
  • hahaha..
    It’s about time Youk did this. Stupid of him, but way past the point of needing to be done.

    Brad August 12, 2009, 10:27 am
  • Anyone done this? sandwichoutrage.com – I’m thinking of dressing my sandwich like Porcello before beating it senseless. I think its guaranteed to be picked to air during a Sox game on NESN.

    lovethatdirtywater August 12, 2009, 10:32 am
  • Detroit’s has to be kicking themselves for throwing at Youk… Got their starting pitcher thrown out, and Lowell in – good for two bombs and the W for the Sox. Gotta love the way that works out.

    MrBlackthorne August 12, 2009, 10:32 am
  • I’m just worried about the lineup we’ll be fielding for five games or so when Youk gets suspended for throwing his helmet. Dumb.

    Paul SF August 12, 2009, 10:53 am
  • “Is History Repeating Itself?”
    no

    dc August 12, 2009, 10:54 am
  • yeah, we’ll definitely be up a river playing any combo of Kotchman/Lowell while he suspends this.
    The best thing he could do is take this suspension right away, and get it over with fast

    Brad August 12, 2009, 10:56 am
  • i’m repeating myself from a few minutes ago on the game thread, but what the heck:
    he [youk] should get an extra game for missing the tackle…somehow porcello sidestepped the worst of that [a la the pedro/zimmer cha cha] and wound up on top of youk…
    http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/
    chop to the chops?…fun stuff…AOL has a funny picture of the intial embrace…looks like they are going to dance…at least youk didn’t throw the bat…’props’ to CHB…he didn’t see it right either…if you guys think ANY of the hbp’s involving the sox, yanks, tigers, the past few days didn’t have purpose, you need to reconsider…

    dc August 12, 2009, 11:24 am
  • There’s nothing like a good fight to get your team fired up. It will suck to lose his bat for a 4-6 games, but it will be well worth it.

    Atheose August 12, 2009, 11:29 am
  • Truth be told, I remain skeptical about the tangible effects of a fight in revving up a team (the ’04 Sox didn’t get going until well after the A-Rod fight, despite the otherwise convenient storyline), and I do worry about the time when Youkilis will be out of the lineup, but it seemed to fit pretty well with my post from yesterday about the ’04 Sox getting it going in the middle of August.

    Paul SF August 12, 2009, 11:40 am
  • Didn’t the Sox suck for like two weeks after the A-Rod face rake?

    SF August 12, 2009, 11:41 am
  • i have to agree with you there ath…one of the things i noticed about the yankee series was that the sox looked beaten…didn’t seem to have the fire in the belly that i normally expect…even though the 15 inning game was one of those epic battles, it just felt like the yanks would win in the end, that’s how both teams’ fortunes had turned lately…but, nothing like a fight and/or ejection to fire up a team, but will it have staying power?…i guess we’ll see…also, it may divert some attention from the oriz mess for awhile…

    dc August 12, 2009, 11:44 am
  • Yeah, there may not be tangible evidence to prove that it gets a team fired up, but it’s nice to see a team playing with a little more energy… you know? Especially after a Yankees series where it looked like the only ones who gave a crap were named Beckett, Lester and Ellsbury.

    Atheose August 12, 2009, 11:53 am
  • the fight last year with the Rays certainly seemed to help them (the Rays that is)!

    dw (sf) August 12, 2009, 12:07 pm
  • A-Rod with a glove sandwich courtesy of Tek.
    Good times.

    SoxFan August 12, 2009, 12:15 pm
  • “the fight last year with the Rays certainly seemed to help them (the Rays that is)!”
    That whole thing was orchestrated by the Rays. And Covelli took the bait. And it sure as hell did help them.

    I'mBillMcNeal August 12, 2009, 12:24 pm
  • Sox fans hoping for history to repeat itself and Yankee fans hoping not. My how times have changed.
    [Unless of course by “history” we mean pretty much any stretch of history OTHER than the past 10 years :)]

    IronHorse August 12, 2009, 12:27 pm
  • What should not be overlook from last night is that we got more tangible evidence that we need to see more Lowell and less Papi.

    I'mBillMcNeal August 12, 2009, 12:28 pm
  • Yeah I too wondered how Porcello wound up on top of that tussle, surrendering so much weight and aggression to Youk. He just kind of ole’d him.
    Mound charging suspensions are usually 5 or 6 games, sometimes reduces to 4 under certain circumstances. I bet the helmet toss sees Youk serving the full 6. But whoever knows with Watson?

    Mark-YF August 12, 2009, 12:45 pm
  • “…A-Rod with a glove sandwich courtesy of Tek. …”
    ah yes, tek the gladiator, in full armor no less…

    dc August 12, 2009, 12:52 pm
  • Yankee Bob will go more than 6 on Youks. Bank on it. 10-12 is more likely given his history.

    Tito says Tazawa is penciled in to start in Arlington.

    I'mBillMcNeal August 12, 2009, 12:56 pm
  • Yankee Bob will go more than 6 on Youks. Bank on it. 10-12 is more likely given his history
    I don’t think there is any way in hell he gets 10-12. I say 5-6, appealed to either 4 or 5 if he appeals at all.

    SF August 12, 2009, 1:08 pm
  • Amazing how “Yankee Bob” gave a 0 game suspension to a pitcher who admitted that he beaned Mark Teixeira on purpose. Funny way of showing his “bias” I guess…

    IronHorse August 12, 2009, 1:11 pm
  • If you want to claim this “Fight” as your turning point, but all means go right ahead. Porcello was caught off guard and still handled Youk, even after he decided to throw his helmet at him. On the “Man” scale this fight ranks right up there with A-Rod slapping the ball out of Brandon Arroyo’s glove.

    John - YF August 12, 2009, 1:13 pm
  • That is a flattering picture of Youk considering he got flipped over by an Olive Oil doppelganger running for his life.

    DR August 12, 2009, 1:15 pm
  • I don’t think Bob Watson is biased, I think Bob Watson is just predictably rudderless.

    SF August 12, 2009, 1:15 pm
  • Tito says Tazawa is penciled in to start in Arlington.
    This makes me smile! The kid deserves another chance after his performance last night. If not for the errors (and BS ump call) in the first inning he could have gone 7.
    On the “Man” scale this fight ranks right up there with A-Rod slapping the ball out of Brandon Arroyo’s glove.
    Yeah, it was certainly no Ryan-vs-Ventura, which is by far the king of baseball fights. But any time someone charges the mound it’s exciting, no matter what happens once he gets there!

    Atheose August 12, 2009, 1:17 pm
  • FWIW Sexson did the exact same thing, was suspended 6 games, on appeal it dropped to 5 games.
    oh come on John – how can Youk running for 60 feet straight in a line of sight catch someone off guard?
    A-Rod still carries a purse from his incident.

    dw (sf) August 12, 2009, 1:17 pm
  • Porcello was caught off guard
    I interpreted Porcello’s reaction as “what the fuck are you doing charging me?”. As in “you KNOW this is how we handle things like Miggy getting hit, so no need to charge the mound”. I think he was honestly surprised that Youk came after him based on what had happened earlier in the game, which makes Porcello a complete idiot.
    And don’t pitchers always have the advantage in these situations? I can’t recall a hitter getting to the mound and doing any damage, basically ever.

    SF August 12, 2009, 1:19 pm
  • Yeah, regardless of how stupid Youk looked when he got there, charging the mound in itself is more manly than anything ARod has ever done.

    Atheose August 12, 2009, 1:20 pm
  • Yeah, regardless of how stupid Youk looked when he got there, charging the mound in itself is more manly than anything ARod has ever done.
    OK, guys, enough with the “purse carrying” manliness stuff. It’s old.

    SF August 12, 2009, 1:22 pm
  • Exactly SF, it’s easy for the pitcher to just get out of the way. The biggest I remember was Pedro vs the Rays in 2000. Pedro got knocked on his ass pretty badly. It also spawned one of the greatest post-game quotes ever:
    “There’s no crying in baseball. If he wants to cry, let him cry.”
    I know the quote came from A League Of Their Own, but it’s so much cooler when an actual player says it.

    Atheose August 12, 2009, 1:22 pm
  • Watch the video of it…kid was caught off guard. It looked like he a. didn’t expect him to charge the mound and b. wanted no part of him. So yes, I’d say he was caught off guard.
    If A-Rod carries a purse for that my friend, than what should we give to Youk after throwing his helmet at a 20 year old lanky kid and then getting tossed by said lanky kid. Your call, whatever you think is appropriate.

    John - YF August 12, 2009, 1:22 pm
  • Portsmouth LL pitcher, 13 years old, 6 foot 2 inches, 165 lbs, 70 mph fastball, just hit an opposite field grand slam that he barely got ahold of.
    Wow. This is Little League?

    LocklandSF August 12, 2009, 1:22 pm
  • I will disengage, I don’t want to start an argument. My opinion is that the “fight” was less of a “fight” then you guys think it was. If it does in fact get you guys fired up, then God bless Youk and shame on Porcello. It just goes to show that everything is about perception. Had A-Rod got tossed the way Youk did the discussion might be different today. Either way, nice win last night. Enough said from me.

    John - YF August 12, 2009, 1:25 pm
  • Watch the video of it…kid was caught off guard
    And the kid was stupid, on a number of levels. He was stupid to throw at Youk, and he was stupid to think Youk wouldn’t come after him. It showed absolutely no baseball smarts or sense, and he helped cost his team the game.
    But yeah, I agree, he was caught off guard.

    SF August 12, 2009, 1:25 pm
  • My opinion is that the “fight” was less of a “fight” then you guys think it was.
    Agreed, but considering how our team has played lately, and how often Youk gets hit (yes I know he crowds the plate, but still), I was happy to see any testosterone-fueled outburst.

    Atheose August 12, 2009, 1:27 pm
  • Yanks – Jays game – afternoon baseball!

    dw (sf) August 12, 2009, 1:29 pm
  • I don’t get the Boston channel here in NJ, so I don’t know the context. I saw the video and commented solely on the events that took place from the time he released the ball until the time the piles were cleared. I made no comments about context.

    John - YF August 12, 2009, 1:29 pm
  • Jeter HBP – injury delay
    anyone see it?

    LocklandSF August 12, 2009, 1:31 pm
  • John:
    Tazawa hit Cabrera in the first inning with men on first and second. Ridiculously unintentional, though Cabrera wasn’t happy (he had been hit the night before). Then in the bottom of the first Porcello threw high and tight to Martinez (two outs, nobody on, pretty clearly a message pitch) who was VERY unhappy. At this point the umpire should have issued warnings. But he didn’t, and in the next frame Tazawa did throw inside on Cabrera, and hit him. Cabrera left the game. And in the next frame Youk was hit squarely in the numbers on the very first pitch of the inning, and the brawl ensued.
    The ump not warning Porcello was an officiating blunder, and it cost the Tigers, though Porcello hitting Youk intentionally was plain old stupid considering the context. He was basically sacrificing himself, in a game where he had a three run lead. Colossally stupid move on his part.

    SF August 12, 2009, 1:37 pm
  • John-YF is spot on. If A-Rod threw his helmet at a rather diminutive pitcher, the same cackle-chorus that has been labeling him a cheap effeminate wuss would be having a field dau with it. If you are one of those SFs who wants to call A-Rod all kinds of names for his “hah”, his “slap”, and who wants to pretend that a catcher attacking him whil wearing full gear and mask somehow exposed his lack of manliness, you need to swallw the fact that your prized star just threw a helmet at a light lanky kid who then threw him. Sorry.
    Of course, if you’re not one of those SFs, this is really rather irrelevant and silly as far as you are concerned.

    IronHorse August 12, 2009, 1:37 pm
  • ” this is really rather irrelevant and silly as far as you are concerned.”
    I get a chuckle out of all the events (of course, if someone had gotten injured, not so much).
    I said turning point as a tongue in cheeck thing, there was a post earlier in the year kind of addressing various “turning points” so was going off of that.

    dw (sf) August 12, 2009, 1:40 pm
  • Youk throwing his helmet was really dumb and actually dangerous, and I said it the moment he did it last night in the game thread.
    These arguments about being manly or not end up between a couple of commenters, and that vocal minority should not be allowed to monopolize discussion. And if A-Rod throws his helmet at a diminutive pitcher (and at 6-5, 200, I don’t think Porcello actually fits the definition of “diminutive”, just clarify) then he too will have done something stupid. Fair shakes around from this SF.

    SF August 12, 2009, 1:40 pm
  • Tried putting up a Yankee gamer, but Typepad won’t let me save…can any mods help me please?

    John - YF August 12, 2009, 1:41 pm
  • Everytime I see that picture, I can’t help but think abut the fact that Varitek’s helmet was on. I remember thinking that when it happened, and the thought has never escaped since.
    Seriously, how manly is it to go after a guy by hitting him in the face when he can’t hit you in the face either?
    If I were a Sox fan I would love the play because:
    1. I would hate the Yankees.
    2. I would hate A-Rod
    3. I would have love the 2004 version of Varitek.
    4. We came back to win that game.
    5. We won the World Series that year after humiliating the Yankees in the playoff, and Varitek’s attacking A-Rod is the most memorable image from that regular season.
    BUT, this doesn’t change the fact that we all overestimate the “Manliness” or “Machoness” factor hitting someone in the face while wearing a facemask.

    Guest August 12, 2009, 1:41 pm
  • IH:
    the “slap” is one thing, the “hah!” another. I find the latter far more deplorable, in another league entirely. Just for the record.
    Moving on…

    SF August 12, 2009, 1:42 pm
  • can any mods help me please?
    I have been nothing but bad luck for the Sox and good luck for the Yankees so far, so I am really hesitant to do this.

    SF August 12, 2009, 1:45 pm
  • And don’t pitchers always have the advantage in these situations? I can’t recall a hitter getting to the mound and doing any damage, basically ever.
    That is so true. Great beatdowns rarely, if ever, occur because of this simple fact.
    Seriously, how manly is it to go after a guy by hitting him in the face when he can’t hit you in the face either?
    Cripe, can we get over this? Those of you bringing this up can piss over what happened all you want, but as Sox fans it will be a favorite moment for a long time. What, you wanted Tek to disrobe before going after him? Catchers wear protective gear… deal with it.
    Oh, and good for Youk. He did look stupid throwing the helmet, tho.

    DUFF - SF August 12, 2009, 1:49 pm
  • Gamer up top.

    SF August 12, 2009, 1:51 pm
  • “I can’t recall a hitter getting to the mound and doing any damage, basically ever.”
    Wasn’t Bill Lee’s shoulder seriously hurt during a brawl. Granted, might have been in the scrum afterward…

    dw (sf) August 12, 2009, 1:55 pm
  • Not making this up… Watching the NE Little League Regional game right now, Tina Cervasio just interviewed kids in the stands…
    TC: what’s your favorite team?
    Kid: Red Sox!!!!
    TC: what’s been your favorite moment of the season so far?
    Kid: The fight was night was awesome, I love how they all come out on the field, it was really exciting, my mom loved it too

    LocklandSF August 12, 2009, 1:56 pm
  • Sorry, I made my “manliness” comment mostly joking, since the majority of the people on this thread are the ones who usually don’t get involved in those types of heated discussions.

    Atheose August 12, 2009, 1:56 pm
  • real talk: Porcello straight JUDO’ed Youkilis.

    doug YF August 12, 2009, 1:59 pm
  • Lockland, that’s pretty pathetic… though in the kid’s defense it took me a few seconds to identify what was my favorite moment this season, since there haven’t been many memorable ones. Nick Green’s walk-off, however cheap, was great. And Ortiz’ first homer was emotional.
    But aside from that, I can’t come up with much.

    Atheose August 12, 2009, 1:59 pm
  • Ath – how about Bay’s tying home run, and Youk’d later game winner earlier in the year?

    dw (sf) August 12, 2009, 2:05 pm
  • “Amazing how “Yankee Bob” gave a 0 game suspension to a pitcher who admitted that he beaned Mark Teixeira on purpose. Funny way of showing his “bias” I guess… ”
    He did that to cross us up. :)

    I'mBillMcNeal August 12, 2009, 2:09 pm
  • Bill Lee was injured in a scrum at home plate, a massive Yanks/Sox brawl after a collision between Fisk and Piniella. He wasn’t charged like Porcello.
    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19760522&id=TyIMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=VF0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5136,5010815

    SF August 12, 2009, 2:15 pm
  • And time out here. Are we actually critiquing/nitpicking the tete-a-tete last night?
    A. It wasn’t a fight. Youks charged, took down Porcello, the benches cleared and that was it. No punches were thrown that I saw.
    B. Aside from the aforementioned Ryan/Ventura episode, and maybe a Fisk/Munson or Fisk/Pinella, when have you ever seen a good baseball fight? These guys don’t know how to fight. They all look like girls when they fight.

    I'mBillMcNeal August 12, 2009, 2:25 pm
  • Thanks for that reminder, SF. I always forget that Spaceman, who was a real Yankee killer that year, wasn’t the same after that injury. And it’s amazing that I do forget seeing as Lee never misses a chance to remind us.

    I'mBillMcNeal August 12, 2009, 2:32 pm
  • And can we all agree on a couple of things:
    Charging the mound is dumb, throwing your helmet is the direction of an opposing player is dumb, throwing a pitch at someone is dumb and throwing part of a broken bat at someone is dumb.
    Seems like there’s a lot of rationalizing and nitpicking about who was right/wrong, who got the better of whom.
    Who gives a shit? It’s a damn good thing nobody got hurt from someone else’s idiotic behavior.

    I'mBillMcNeal August 12, 2009, 2:37 pm
  • The best part of the Arod slap play is that it created one of the greatest nicknames ever!
    Slappy McBlue Lips

    LocklandSF August 12, 2009, 2:38 pm
  • These guys don’t know how to fight. They all look like girls when they fight.
    This is so true.
    There’s no dumber sight during a baseball fight than 20 guys jogging in from the bullpen. Seriously?

    Paul SF August 12, 2009, 2:39 pm
  • Not to nitpick…
    “A. It wasn’t a fight. Youks charged, took down Porcello, the benches cleared and that was it. No punches were thrown that I saw.”
    Youk did indeed charge, but he certainly wasn’t the one doing the taking down. He was taken down, just so we are clear. But I do agree with the rest of your statement for sure.

    John - YF August 12, 2009, 3:18 pm
  • Youk gets 5 days suspension…

    rootbeerfloat August 12, 2009, 3:54 pm
  • Any word rfb on when he’ll srve it? Is this one of those appeal-until-you-can-find-the-least-damaging-time-to-serve-it or is he just going to get it over with? I don’t remember now who Boston plays in between Texas and NY and even how many days there are between thise two series, but what have SFs heard re: what this will mean in terms of real-time served and when?

    IronHorse August 12, 2009, 4:03 pm
  • Youk starting suspension tonight – which sucks cause he’ll miss the Texas series.

    dw (sf) August 12, 2009, 4:24 pm
  • IH – he may not appeal, he was pretty contrite last night after the game, basically saying how much of a dumb move it was and it is not something he is proud of. He may start the time-out tonight. They have two more against DET, then 3 in TEX and then an off day next Monday. Gets him back in time for three in TOR to work out the kinks before coming home NYY series.

    BillsBurgSF August 12, 2009, 4:26 pm
  • I understand Youk getting 5 games, but why did Porcello get 5 as well? I’m surprised he didn’t get 3.

    Atheose August 12, 2009, 4:29 pm
  • I was thinking that there are two ways to look at it: pull off the band aid, have Youk only miss three road games, be back for Toronto. Or, appeal, see if it gets reduced to 4 (unlikely) but then risk missing part of the Yankees series. Probably best to just get it over with, there isn’t a good time to do this.

    SF August 12, 2009, 4:31 pm
  • I agree, get it over with.

    Atheose August 12, 2009, 4:57 pm
  • I’m pleased Youkilis is not appealing. He’s been contrite all along. This is the responsible thing to do.
    But the way this breaks down, Youks gets 5 games and Porcello, who threw at two players, gets 1 because he’ll miss just one start.
    I’d love to hear Yankee Bob explain his logic.
    Oh, wait. That’s suggesting he used logic.

    I'mBillMcNeal August 12, 2009, 4:59 pm
  • “Youk did indeed charge, but he certainly wasn’t the one doing the taking down. He was taken down, just so we are clear.”
    What’s your point, John? Or are you just baiting? Because I’m not really sure why you feel the need to share this.

    I'mBillMcNeal August 12, 2009, 5:00 pm
  • IBM: Pitchers, starting pitchers, seem to get up to 5 games, and 6 if the transgression is really bad, which loses them two starts.
    2/32 (assuming a full season) means that on a six game suspension a starter loses 6% of his season. 1/32 is 3% of a full slate of starts for Porcello.
    Youk loses 5/162, or 3% of his season. The argument for a suspension for a starter would be over that extra game, and if he got six games his suspension with respect to that percentage of appearance would be skewed against Porcello, quite significantly.
    I think these suspensions are very fair. If Porcello misses any less than five games he doesn’t miss a start, which would not be effective other than the cash he loses.

    SF August 12, 2009, 5:06 pm
  • Interesting, too, that, according to the Globe, Edwin Jackson was fined but not Brad Penny.
    This is why Yankee Bob should explain his sanctions. Too arbitrary.

    I'mBillMcNeal August 12, 2009, 5:08 pm
  • IBM, Jackson was fined for his actions during the “brawl” last night, not for what happened while he was the pitcher on Monday night.

    Atheose August 12, 2009, 5:10 pm
  • Come on IBM, you knew somebody was gonna make that “clarification”!

    DUFF - SF August 12, 2009, 5:29 pm
  • IBM I don’t bait, I just state facts. I’m sorry if you don’t like that. My track record should speak for itself.

    John -YF August 12, 2009, 6:28 pm
  • I get that, ath. My point was, why wasn’t Penny sanctioned?

    John, your “fact” is relevant how? That’s my point. Particularly in the context of my original post, it is very immaterial. Although, I am amused that you have been able to reach such a pronounced conclusion, given that Porcello was backing up at the time they went tumbling down. That would seem to make it rather difficult for him to be the aggressor at that point.

    I'mBillMcNeal August 12, 2009, 7:22 pm
  • I don’t know if doing the take down makes the Porcello the aggressor, and I don’t know if there’s any point in stating it, other than that it’s true. I’m a YF, and I have no context, other than the video I just watched on mlb.com, but that’s a take down move.
    That said, ya, I don’t know why people throw helmets.. how much damage can you do with it anyhow? Maybe you would do more damage if you took it off and bash someone with it, though that’s certainly worth more than a 5 game suspension..

    Lar August 12, 2009, 7:36 pm
  • It’s really not worth continuing this debate so I am admonishing myself for continuing it, but just to say IBM that while I like and respect your comments here, John-YF did nothing wrong. He pointed out a fact. In the ridiculous context of who is “manly” in these tussles it is relevant because A-Rod in particular has been lambasted for exactly the helmet-throwing type of behavior that Youkilis exhibited, including by some posting here.
    Outside of that context it is relevant because it is true, and before some sort of tough-guy-mythology gets built up around Kevin Youkilis and this “fight” by any SFs on this site (and I say this acknowledging that most SFs on this site are not going there), it is incumbent on cooler-heads (not to mention irresistable to rival fans) to point out that quite the opposite actually occured. He threw his helmet and then proceeded to get thrown to the ground and end up on the bottom of a pile even while he was trying to be the aggressor. These are not matters of opinion. They are verifiable by anyone who watches the video with anything but the most SF-tinted shades.
    More important – and largely the reason I waste time to type this – is that John-YF has a pretty impeccable record regarding this kind of thing, at least as long as I’ve been around here, he hasn’t been around much lately, and I’d like it if he commented more often – so though he doesn’t need me to make arguments for him, it is my pleasure in this case.

    IronHorse August 13, 2009, 2:01 am
  • I get that, ath. My point was, why wasn’t Penny sanctioned?
    Because during the brawl Jackson was EXTREMELY aggressive, having to be held back by teammates. Penny wasn’t aggressive at all.
    And I think I agree with John/IH, Youk didn’t really take anyone down, it was Porcello who moved to the side and used Youk’s own weight against him. It’s completely irrelevant in the scheme of things, but that’s what happened.

    Atheose August 13, 2009, 7:14 am
  • and before some sort of tough-guy-mythology gets built up around Kevin Youkilis and this “fight” by any SFs on this site
    I agree with you about what happened (Youk was adeptly avoided by Porcello, then rolled to the ground), but why the need to pre-emptively brand SFs and make us into false mythologizers, even the ones not at this site, and in advance of any such mythology? What’s the point, honestly? I just don’t get this. The point was made: Youk wasn’t the tackler, but rather the tacklee, and just about everyone but IBM seems to see it this way. Let’s move on.

    SF August 13, 2009, 7:55 am
  • The analogy to the ’04 Varitek-A-Rod fight – which did very much become part of the mythology around the Sox’ run that year – was not made by me. Actually, it’s the topic of the thread.

    IronHorse August 13, 2009, 8:43 am
  • I don’t think Paul was myth-building, but rather making a reference to a rather memorable event in a WS season. I think that is completely different than Paul beginning some sort of cult of personality around Youk, which is what you profess to want to neutralize.
    I think it is mildly antagonistic of you to concern troll at this site thos SFs who don’t traffic this site, as you freely admit, against building up a cult of personality. This is said in the context of my disagreement with IBM about the events, and my agreement with you.
    I am not going to start warning YFs against buying into or building up some false characterization of one of their own players, in particular when they are not doing that and when those who I do interact with don’t do it. It’s not appropriate, IH. I simply don’t understand what your heavily qualified “warning” is meant to serve. It’s just antagonistic to me.

    SF August 13, 2009, 9:05 am
  • Hah. The idea that a baseball “fight” (seriously, baseball players have no idea how to fight) fires up a team and causes them to win is silly as hell.
    The ’04 Sox sucked for a while after Tek ambushed ARod. They caught fire weeks later.
    The Red Sox got a win out of this incident b/c they managed to get a good pitcher thrown out of the game and Youk was replaced by a guy who then hit 2 HRs off the hapless scrub the Tigers had to bring in to pitch (and yes, I agree that Porcello throwing at Youk was really stupid for that reason). That’s the impact, not some mythological manly cowbow-upness. Porcello >>> random scrub, whereas Youk > Lowell.
    If the Sox go on a run now, it will have diddly squat to do with Youk charging Porcello. If they end up slumping and somehow miss the playoffs (unlikely, IMO), then this narrative will be conveniently forgotten.

    Rob in CT August 13, 2009, 9:30 am
  • surprised this argument even took place, given the forensic evidence available that clearly showed youk at the bottom of the pig pile with porcello’s hand chopping at his face…i commented in an earlier thread about this, and even provided the link to the dirtdogs who had the most definitive photo i’ve seen…pretty damning evidence for those, like CHB and IBM, who want to continue to promote the “youk won the fight” myth…as if it really matters in the grand scheme of things…

    dc August 13, 2009, 9:30 am
  • Since I’m so clearly far off base with regard to what any SFs on this site might have in mind, you needn’t worry about it SF.

    IronHorse August 13, 2009, 11:53 am
  • Mythology of the fight is different from mythology of the fighters, is it not?
    The fact remains that the Tek/Arod fight is mythologized, even as the facts remain hotly contested. If the Sox go on to win the World Series this year, the Youk/Porcello fight will also be mythologized, regardless of the specific circumstances or players involved. My tongue-in-cheek comparison of the two will do nothing to build that mythology, and your valiant efforts to repeat the facts of what transpired will do nothing to tear it down. We are both irrelevant in that sense, IH.

    Paul SF August 13, 2009, 12:29 pm
  • You know what I like about that A-Rod/Tek picture?
    A-Rod is wearing his signature Mickey Mouse gloves!
    He even has his fingers splayed out just like Mickey does.

    SoxFan August 13, 2009, 12:45 pm
  • Actually I think you sell yourself short Paul. I think your post does exactly build that mythology – at least on this site, which is the only one on which I comment re: baseball.
    But I have no trouble granting you that my fact-checking will ultimately be irrelevant in that regard. At least you called me valiant which – even if meant semi-sarcastically – is better than being called a concern-trolling antagonist.

    IronHorse August 14, 2009, 12:09 am

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