“It’s goodbye hey there, Alex!”

Such is the way we reviseth Hank Steinbrenner’s churlish comment from a couple of weeks back.  Now I am really confused, though.  The reports back then, if they were to be trusted, said that the Yankees were prepared to extend Alex for 5 years and about $140M, meaning that they would have owed him $221M over eight years under those terms, with $30M paid by the Texas Rangers ($27.6M AAV gross, $23.8M AAV in Yankee money).  Now Alex is reportedly going to get $275M over 10 years (plus incentives) that could push the total value over the $300M mark, all coming from the Yanks.

So who crawled back to whom, exactly?

(Not that it matters, the Yankees retain the services of the best player in the game, and that’s good for them, no question)

112 comments… add one
  • Between the competing stories of Bonds and A-Rod, I’ve had “Hallelujah” and “Goodbye, Hello” stuck in my head.

    Mike November 15, 2007, 8:15 pm
  • Your last comment says it all. Nothing else really matters, does it?

    DR November 15, 2007, 8:15 pm
  • I thought the same, though I also thought that there would’ve been room to wiggle anyhow, since that was the Yank’s first offer.
    I’m not too happy with this, at least in terms of $$ and years. Obviously having ARod back is a-okay though.

    Lar November 15, 2007, 8:32 pm
  • my brother, walein, made this same exact point to me this morning. But I disagree. As Lar points out, the reports were about the opening offer. Also, they were reports. who knows the truth behind them.

    Nick-YF November 15, 2007, 8:34 pm
  • That offer the yankees “made” was a starting point. I believe there have been numbers that were considerably higher than that as to how high they would have gone as far as an extension. We will never really know what the truth is. The reality is that they are probably giving him the exact same package he would have got had he not opted out.
    Im fairly sure that they didnt have the wool pulled over their eyes, say what you will about the Yankee Brass but they are good businessmen.
    Plus Alex getting lots of money thats just AROD being AROD.

    sam-YF November 15, 2007, 8:50 pm
  • No good businessman would offer 3 years and $100 million more than what the market would be. You think that if Boras got anywhere close to that number on the open market he would even think about discussing terms with the Yankees exclusively? Although maybe he took another gamble, and bet on the Yankees bidding against themselves, as teams are apt to do when dealing with Boras.
    Just, from an outsider’s perspective, it makes zero sense, unless the Yankees REALLY think A-Rod chasing the homerun mark will be worth having a .270, 15 HR, 60 RBI 42-year old making over $30 million on their roster…assuming he even makes it that far.

    Andrew November 15, 2007, 8:55 pm
  • I think they crawled back to each other, frankly. Which is why the headlines, stories, and opinions by countless writers and fans about Boras being a loser or A-Rod eating crow and coming back with his tail between his legs are ridiculous. The only people in this whole affair who took the hard line and said “never!” were Hank Steinbrenner, Cashman, the Yankees. Boras and Rodriguez, on the other hand, never closed the door on the Yankees in public, and they look to have ended up getting a massive upgrade of a contract, a nearly guaranteed sum of close to a third of a billion dollars. If there was no market for A-Rod and that’s why he came back to the Yanks (something that has been speculated) then Boras/Rodriguez played this one brilliantly. And if there WAS a market for Rodriguez, you can be damn sure that market was used to negotiate the terms of this deal. Boras has certainly earned his keep, and to me his reputation is just as solid as it was before this soap opera. I don’t see how anyone can look at what A-Rod has now, a guaranteed contract through his 42nd year of life and think that Boras didn’t do a spectacular job for his client.
    Boras wrote an absolutely genius contract back in 2000.

    SF November 15, 2007, 9:05 pm
  • > I don’t see how anyone can look at what A-Rod has now, a guaranteed guaranteed contract through his 42nd year of life and think that Boras didn’t do a spectacular job for his client
    Nails.

    attackgerbil November 15, 2007, 9:20 pm
  • There is always the question that if the Yankees get seven more good years out A-Rod. That if he hits the 38 year old wall and start to decline.
    Well then you have HR-king, multiple-MVP winning, first ballot Hall of Famer, (hopefully) World Champion Best Player in the Game, someone in the best player ever argument guy taking a two year farewell tour.
    I mean Ted Williams did it, Bagwell did it, Jackson, Winfield and all the others did it. There always comes a time when a player who doesn’t have it anymore sticks around a bit too long. It gives the rare opportunity for people to come and see the old warrior play.
    Now at $30 million a year? As i said a previous post: 12 years ago Barry bonds signed a six year-43.75 million dollar contract. The fabled seven million dollar man. It was unheard of, there were articles being printed that were rabid, incensed and ridiculous. Now, over 75% of the teams in MLB have at least one $12-$15 million dollar man.
    All i’m saying that the gap between A-Rod’s salary in 5 years won’t be as big as it seems now. And in seven or eight years when I see him already entrenched in a DH role, already with the record, in late-late Barry Bonds mode and about to begin the biggest last hurrah in sports, in a gorgeous new stadium, waiting for the Hall of Fame to call his numbers and letting the Yankees bask in the glow of it all, it might seem cheap.
    And its not like it hurts these Yankees in the pocketbook. We already have three guys making more than $20 million (including A-Rod), and EIGHT guys making over 10 million a year. (They are Giambi, Jeter, Posada, Abreu, Damon, Matsui, Mussina and Pavano to go along with A-Rod.)
    I am curious what happens when Cano, Melky, Wang go to contract time. Combined those three are making 1.2 million. By then I’m sure Moose, Mats and Pavano will be gone, but the point is the Yankees are comfortable enjoying the $200 payroll line, and will do so even when a 42 year old A-Rod is pinchitting and grousing about the guy’s 10 years younger than him making more than him.

    Carlos (YF) November 15, 2007, 9:33 pm
  • I really dont think its a foregone conclusion that A-Rod will regress so quickly and badly as some people here would like to believe. We have to remember that he is a unique player in every sense with an amazing work ethic. He could very easily remain productive into his late 30s.
    Re:Boras I think its a bit simplistic to say that he did a great job for his client. In terms of money and contract, yes he did. But the player certainly has something to do with that. After the year he just had, other agents may have been able to do something at least in that range. Second, Boras most certainly failed in the way he handled the situation initially. He hurt Alex’s reputation in a needless way largely due to his own hubris. Sure he ended up getting the big money for his client but there has been a negative cost associated with it.
    Re: The rest of the market for Alex. We have zero idea what other teams would have offered for him. Speculation is exactly that. This market could have been below, above, or at the value other teams would have offered him if given the chance. We will never know. For that very reason, this was a victory in those terms for the yankees. They took him off the market before he could truely test it. No different than people were saying about the Red Sox making a run at A-Rod, Im sure the yankees did their due dilligence on this contract before offering it. I think the team’s success over the last decade and a half has earned them the benefit of the doubt.

    sam-YF November 15, 2007, 10:49 pm
  • The SFs around here are trying to find a way to crap on the Yankee parade.
    A few questions for them:
    1) When’s the last time Boras settled a deal in the second week of November?
    2) How much revenue did MLB report today?
    3) What was the MLB revenue in 2000?
    Thanks for playing along!

    Mike YF November 15, 2007, 11:02 pm
  • I gotta agree Mike. All you SFs are looking for ways to diminish and cheapen the fact that A-Rod is remaining a yankee. Fact is that its great for our team no matter how it happened and you guys arent happy about it.
    Enjoy your championship and allow us to enjoy retaining the best player in baseball and a renewed hope for next season.

    sam-YF November 15, 2007, 11:11 pm
  • For the record:
    – Barry Zito signed on 12/28 of last year.
    – 6.075 bil / 30 teams = 202 mil per team AVERAGE revenue
    Its very very possible there was a bigger contract out there for Alex.

    sam-YF November 15, 2007, 11:15 pm
  • If true, well played by both Boras and Arod. As SF said, one of the best teams in baseball keeps the services of the best player in the game. Win win.
    But… And this was agreed by many a regular and authors of this site just a short time ago, you still have the biggest d-bag in the game on your team for the next 10 years.
    Congrats.
    I would have still welcomed him with open arms.

    LocklandSF November 15, 2007, 11:33 pm
  • Lockland,
    “When’s the last time Boras settled a deal in the second week of November?”
    Yeah, but it was “well played”. Sure.

    Mike YF November 15, 2007, 11:36 pm
  • Lockland Curt Schilling just signed a 10 year contract with the yankees?

    sam-YF November 15, 2007, 11:38 pm
  • You have to understand, Sam. It has to burn real bad. Your team wins the Series and they already irrelevant before the clinching game has even finished.
    God Bless A-Rod!

    Mike YF November 15, 2007, 11:41 pm
  • Sam, he’s a giant d-bag too, no argument there.

    LocklandSF November 15, 2007, 11:42 pm
  • Your team wins the Series and they already irrelevant before the clinching game has even finished.
    Are we really going to play this game? Because it sure would be pretty easy for someone to look up the number of World Series titles A-Rod has brought to New York…

    Paul SF November 15, 2007, 11:56 pm
  • Exactly! He has won zero rings, and yet he was a bigger story during the clinching game, the day after, and the three weeks since.
    It’s obvious why all these SF’s are so angry. A-Rod, future Yankee HoFer, stole their victory lap.
    Ha!

    Mike YF November 16, 2007, 12:02 am
  • Mike, no offense bro, but the only person that sees it that way is you.

    LocklandSF November 16, 2007, 12:05 am
  • Mike Id rather win the world series than sign any player.

    sam-YF November 16, 2007, 12:07 am
  • No doubt, Sam, no doubt. Really, it’s just a matter of when.
    Still, A-Rod and the Yankees have made the Sox accomplishments quickly irrelevant. They didn’t even get a day of attention from the national press. That must burn. I don’t know how else to explain the pettiness I’m reading.

    Mike YF November 16, 2007, 12:10 am
  • I dont agree that its just a matter of when. Its hard to do no matter what. Great teams can not win. Everything needs to go right. Signing A-Rod makes it more likely to happen but who knows

    sam-YF November 16, 2007, 12:13 am
  • Mike is who Pete/Rob turns into when they want to get REALLY aggressive with the Red Sox hate.
    It’s definitely instructive.

    Paul SF November 16, 2007, 12:30 am
  • Still, A-Rod and the Yankees have made the Sox accomplishments quickly irrelevant.
    Oh please.

    Jackie (SF) November 16, 2007, 12:49 am
  • Good for Arod and the Yanks. As a SF, I’m glad that the Yanks will remain equal parts relevant and hateable for the next 10 years.

    Tyrel SF November 16, 2007, 12:54 am
  • As a Bronx Born Yankee fan for the past 6+ decades, I think that the thought that the ARod situation made the Red Sox win irrelevant is just very very bad sportsmanship – and very very UNYankee.
    Congrats to RSN – their team is the World Champion now. And whatever brouhaha that ARod and Barry Bonds are involved in does in no way diminish that fact.
    And while some of the sports media might have been ignoring that accomplishment, I saw lots of coverage of the Red Sox on TV, including the Parade on the NY News, and Manny and Papelbon on the talk shows – not Jeter and ARod.
    So once again, congrats to RSN, but wait till next year :-)

    bronxborn November 16, 2007, 1:52 am
  • Do you think Mr. April’s new contract will have an opt-out clause?

    Pocono Sox November 16, 2007, 7:38 am
  • Thank you for the words of wisdom, Bronxborn.
    If this site had turned into a three week syrupy paean to how wonderful the Red Sox are I am sure the YF contingent would have been grossed out, and rightfully so. The Yankees are news, they are our rival, so we, fans of the World Champion Red Sox (yep, the champs!) discuss them effusively.

    SF November 16, 2007, 8:28 am
  • Mr. April? Thats original. Havent we put that one to bed yet?

    sam-YF November 16, 2007, 8:29 am
  • That’s up to Alex to put it to rest. Being a post-season ghost will do that to you.

    Pocono Sox November 16, 2007, 8:51 am
  • Please, this “Mr. April” stuff is just silly. Rodriguez CARRIED the Yankees last year for weeks at a time, and not just in April. Without him they would have been out of the playoff race with weeks to go.

    SF November 16, 2007, 9:26 am
  • The thread I link to below is a good reminder of how some goalposts get moved. In this case, the first few commnents addressed the 350M contract ask by A-Rod and Boras and suggesting that their target was really 10/300 (which they appear to be getting). These commenters were apparently spot on. But now this deal is being spun as Boras and A-Rod leaving money on the table, having “lost” the negotiation.
    http://yanksfansoxfan.typepad.com/ysfs/2007/11/yankees-pick-up.html#comment-88518386

    SF November 16, 2007, 10:00 am
  • “honestly i think that is what boras is gonna be targeting. 10/350 was the figure i expected him to go for and maybe get when i heard about his FA. i think he will get close to that…”
    That’s from Sam-YF. I think he hasn’t move goalposts anywhere. As far as the rest of the thread, I couldn’t find specific numbers.

    Nick-YF November 16, 2007, 10:04 am
  • anyway, the larger point still stands. It’s hard to argue that someone who stands to make in the range of $275-300 million is losing anything. My dad described A-Rod as “crawling back” to the Yanks, and I pointed out that I’d gladly crawl back to many places for $27 million a year. He didn’t disagree.
    But if I’m speculating about this I think Boras, in all likelihood, would have preferred for the market to develop a bit before coming back to the Yanks. And I think he probably could have gotten more money for A-Rod from some other team. In other words< I do believe the narrative that A-Rod initiated this action against the advice of Boras. It doesn't mean that I believe Boras is somehow weakened in future negotiations. In this case, his client likely didn't stick to their gameplan. But it's Boras's job to follow the wishes of the client.

    Nick-YF November 16, 2007, 10:14 am
  • Except no Sox fan has answered Mike’s questions, specifically:
    “When’s the last time Boras settled a deal in the second week of November?”
    Cutting off the bidding before it had ever taken off is certainly a win for the Yankees. And the questions about MLB’s revenues are surely directed at how they’ve grown in the time since A-Rod signed his last contract. None of that is to suggest he should be getting paid less, per year, than he was in the end of that deal.
    P.s. My apologies on his’s irascible comments. I’ll ask him to tone it down a bit but he is a fiery one.

    NH Rob November 16, 2007, 10:18 am
  • As far as the contract goes, the yankees are not gonna try to low ball a guy when he comes back to them asking to be taken back. Everyone knows they can afford this type of contract.
    I also still neglect to see how anybody can say that Boras did not mess up in the way he handled this situation. No, you cant argue with the bottom line in terms of the ultimate contract that his client is going to receive but the way it has all gone down for the last 2 weeks was not as he foresaw it. He clearly made one or (likely) more miscalculations concerning how to best handle this opt-out. This is the first time we have seen a chink in his armor in a long time.

    sam-YF November 16, 2007, 10:34 am
  • Oh, I don’t know about that, Sam. The Matsuzaka negotiations last year didn’t exactly go the way Boras had envisioned them either, did they?

    yankeemonkey November 16, 2007, 10:39 am
  • They didnt go as he publicly stated but I think that was primarily a negotiation tactic. I really dont think that there was ever much of a chance of DiceK going back to Japan.

    sam-YF November 16, 2007, 10:41 am
  • He did misplay the Matsuzaka deal too. What’s obvious is if he’s given free reign, he’ll bring back numbers better than any one would have expected (not just A-Rod, but also Zito last year). But if the player takes control, he really has very little influence. The Yankees, to their credit, realized this very early on and that determined their initial negotiating stance.

    NH Rob November 16, 2007, 10:55 am
  • What could Boras have done better for Matsuzaka? The market wasn’t open. He had no leverage.

    Nick-YF November 16, 2007, 10:57 am
  • agreed Nick. It would not have been a Boras victory at all if he had returned to Japan.

    sam-YF November 16, 2007, 10:59 am
  • I must confess I don’t understand the Matsuzaka situation. Boras publicly stated he wanted a $100 million contract, then afterward basically said he really meant $100 million total, including posting fee, which is what the Sox had been saying they would do all along.
    I suppose he was just negotiating publicly, using the only leverage — public pressure — he even remotely had. Certainly not an ideal situation for an agent, but I didn’t think he came out of that looking very good either.

    Paul SF November 16, 2007, 11:05 am
  • Does bad PR really affect what Boras does and will be able to do either way? He’s freaking Scott Boras!
    My guess is that if Boras was in total control of the negotiations (and DiceK had not ordered him to get him on the Sox no matter what) that Matsuzaka would have returned to Japan and mlb and Japanese baseball would be talking about revamping the bidding system.

    Nick-YF November 16, 2007, 11:09 am
  • I think you’re right, Nick. Boras hates the posting process most especially because 50 million went to the former team.
    Even then though, Boras took the negotiation to the last possible day.

    NH Rob November 16, 2007, 11:24 am
  • Scott Boras doesn’t lose. Sometimes he just wins a little bit less.

    Mark (YF) November 16, 2007, 11:31 am
  • It may be his imperviousness to caring what people think about him that makes Boras so good, but mark my words, one day it will burn him. You can ignore PR for so long, but eventually perception becomes reality. His hubris in that sense led to a mistake by releasing the opt-out during Game 4 of the World Series, which is something considering he’s widely believed not to make mistakes when it comes to negotiation.
    This assumes Boras really does ignore PR. He may actually cultivate it far more than any of us are aware, but just among the circles where PR actually matters. We certainly don’t run in those circles.

    Paul SF November 16, 2007, 11:32 am
  • Where it would seem to matter the most is how much it affects his ability to get clients to sign up with him. Teams can play at the idea that they won’t talk to him ever because he’s Boras but if he has A-Rod, JD Drew and a number of other valuable players, it’s pretty silly not to engage him.

    Nick-YF November 16, 2007, 11:35 am
  • I think “burn him” is extreme. That opt-out would seem to be his Waterloo, but he did still manage to make 5% of 275 million. And that certainly won’t hurt his chances of getting more clients.
    It’s a case where he looks silly. But I can’t see the negative consequences except for the PR. But let’s see what he puts together for Andruw.

    NH Rob November 16, 2007, 11:39 am
  • What’s funny is that J.D. Drew, Jason Varitek, others who have him as their agent are really great, down-to-earth gyus (this is what is reported about them, anyway). So the perception of Boras among players I think is far different than the perception among fans. Among fans, there seems to be a current of utter dislike, to the point where maybe we wouldn’t want to be associated with someone perceived like he is. Clearly, this is not operational among players, and I would guess not just because he’s known as the guy who’s going to get them top dollar.

    Paul SF November 16, 2007, 11:41 am
  • I wonder…if there wasn’t such a universal firestorm over the opt-out, would other teams have been more willing and/or more speedy to enter the bidding? Or did the way in which the whole thing went down truly alienate some teams? Or, more importantly, fans of those teams?

    yankeemonkey November 16, 2007, 11:44 am
  • one thing that article made clear is that if you’re a client of Boras you’r treated quite well. I mean it would be a bit over-the-top for me to come into an office and see highlights of my career on huge flat screens as I waited in the waiting room, but it might flatter me a bit.

    Nick-YF November 16, 2007, 11:44 am
  • the new yorker article

    Nick-YF November 16, 2007, 11:46 am
  • YM
    I think thats exactly right. The way it went down most certainly hurt A-Rod’s market at least from the get go. I could see other teams want to distance themselves from that at least temporally.
    I think the bottom line was that A-Rod got sick of being beat up in the press and said “Screw this I can make a lot of this better and still get the cash by calling the yankees myself.”

    sam-YF November 16, 2007, 11:47 am
  • But let’s be clear – we can see now exactly why he’s their agent – he gets them very good deals in anticipating not where the market is, but where it will be. It’s hard to argue that the Sox won the negotiations with Varitek or Drew. Like the Yankees, with Jorge, they had little choice but to sign those guys and Boras made them pay – in years and dollars.
    By contrast, is there any doubt that Lowell would get four years if Boras were his agent? The Sox may hold firm, and they should, but Boras would get other teams playing more seriously.

    NH Rob November 16, 2007, 11:55 am
  • hard to argue that the Sox won the negotiations with Varitek or Drew.
    It’s hard to argue that the Sox came out on top of the Drew deal after only one year? I say, after next year, Drew is where he was this year, we’d have a valid argument, but as it stands now, I don’t think we can proclaim the Red Sox as “losers” in this negotiation.

    Anonymous November 16, 2007, 11:58 am
  • The Sox may hold firm, and they should
    but this I fully agree with.. Say no to Lowell at four years no matter what!

    Anonymous November 16, 2007, 11:59 am
  • 14 million/year and five years was steep for Drew given the injury concerns. And if any one looks to be aging fast, it’s him:
    2004 – 28 – 157 OPS+
    2005 – 29 – 145 OPS+
    2006 – 30 – 126 OPS+
    2007 – 31 – 104 OPS+
    He may bounce back but at the time the contract was signed no one thought it was a good deal.

    NH Rob November 16, 2007, 12:06 pm
  • yeah, you’re right. He sucks.

    Brad November 16, 2007, 12:24 pm
  • In fact, that “growing old” thing does it for me. They should eat as much as they can swallow, and trade him for anyone they can swindle into thinking he’s any good. I’m surprised you just didn’t go with the VORP argument to make your point.

    Brad November 16, 2007, 12:26 pm
  • I didn’t say he sucks. Nor do I think so. Overpriced, yes. Sucks, no.
    He’s just an example of Boras getting very good deals for his clients when the market is wide open. Nothing more or less intended.
    I’m not a huge fan of VORP, but it is helpful when comparing players at different positions.

    NH Rob November 16, 2007, 12:38 pm
  • Apparently this guy doesnt think that A-Rod is the MVP of the AL east. I post this to show that not only Yankee beat writers write absurd things guided by their own biases. The majority of articles we see on this site seem to indicate that.
    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/11/16/sorry_a_rod_mvp_stands_for_most_valuable_papi/?p1=MEWell_Pos2

    sam-YF November 16, 2007, 1:39 pm
  • *that should read AL not AL east.
    The more i read this article the more absurd it is. I cant imagine what the outrage would be around here if Pete Abraham wrote this and Papi and A-Rod’s numbers were reversed.

    sam-YF November 16, 2007, 1:42 pm
  • I can honestly say, having read the Globe religiously for about 15 years, that I have never heard of the author of that piece. He’s credited as a “Boston.com writer,” which leads me to belive you give him too much credit placing him with writers of Abraham’s caliber and prestige, Sam.

    Paul SF November 16, 2007, 2:07 pm
  • I think this year it should be unanimous, half because ARod had an insane year, but also because there really isn’t that many people to challenge him..
    This article is pretty much as partisan as you can make it.
    “Of course, there’s also the DH factor. The plodding Ortiz doesn’t contribute on the basepaths and with the glove the way A-Rod does. But while A-Rod’s 24 steals certainly deserve respect, they weren’t the difference between wins and losses. For a Yankees team that averaged six runs a game, one steal a week wasn’t exactly a monumental event.”
    On the other hand, one more hit a week raises your average how much? ;) What about one more HR a week?

    Lar November 16, 2007, 2:11 pm
  • Nick-YF – I’m sitting here amusing myself with the idea of a flat-screen TV playing my career highlights… like the time I found that software bug at 11 pm and got the patch out in time to keep the customer from throwing us out of his network… Might not have the same effect as the videos he usually shows.

    Anonymous November 16, 2007, 2:23 pm
  • Yeah, all my career highlights would be clicking “Close and Save” over and over and over and over…
    Fascinating stuff. ;-)

    Paul SF November 16, 2007, 2:39 pm
  • A video of my career highlights…
    Christ, thanks for depressing the crap out of me.

    LocklandSF November 16, 2007, 3:33 pm
  • I think my career highlights would be papers fluttering down from the ceiling as I once again, clicked Save before Close on the spreadsheets. The euphoria when I selected “landscape” instead of “potrait” on the print screen.
    I definitely want a crowd in my cubicle when I, yet again, correctly intepret e-mails from my superiors.

    Carlos November 16, 2007, 4:10 pm
  • A different perspective, but I’m serious: when A-Rod gets old, will he play more than 11/2 poor seasons? I doubt it. I don’t think he can play 10 more years. Old players like Willie Mays needed the money and sometimes humiliated themselves. A-Rod will be richer than God, will hang on for awhile and then decide to call it quits.

    Anonymous November 16, 2007, 10:54 pm
  • My point about moving goalposts was that if the initial reports were remotely accurate (not sure) then the Yankees improved their original offer upwards, and significantly so, despite speculation (accurate, who knows) that there was no market for Rodriguez. But still there is a strong sentiment that Boras got his come-uppance, that he somehow lost this one. I can’t make that connection, if the reports were at all in the ballpark. If there was no market for Rodriguez after he opted out, then how on earth did the player and agent get the Yankees to jack up their offer in significant fashion?
    So the benchmark for what constitutes a successful negotiation by Boras has moved all over the place, in my opinion.

    SF November 17, 2007, 6:59 am
  • sf,
    i think the reason that some folks believe the yankees [if they didn’t “win” outright] at least out-bluffed boras in this case is because they didn’t blink…all accounts are that arod contacted them, not the other way around…don’t get me wrong, i was on the record here as saying i had reconciled his departure, and had no problem with it…i was ready to move on…
    here’s a different perspective on the money:
    arod will still be the highest paid player in baseball with the richest mlb contract in history…
    the yankees initial offer was reported to be 5 years for $150m which was actually in addition to the 3 years for $91m that he had left on the current contract…
    boras had informed the yankees, and anyone else willing to listen that the starting point for negotiations would be 10-12 years at $350m…
    to summarize:
    boras wanted $35m per year [minimum]
    yankees initially offered $30m per year
    alex may settle for $27.5m per year
    i’ve left out incentives because we have no way of knowing them for all 3 scenarios, but we did hear that boras intended to leverage arod’s pursuit of the record, his marketability and his impact on attendance and YES tv ratings…he does get the extra 2 years [total of 10], but he has to forfeit the $20m the yanks would have received from the rangers…
    i understand your need to spin this differently, being a sox fan and all, and not wanting to give yanks mgmt any credit for playing one right once in awhile, but to say the yanks didn’t call a bluffer’s bluff and probably wind up close to where they wanted to be anyway with the contract terms, retaining a player that they probably wanted to retain all along [despite the public pronouncements to the contrary], making arod come to them, and in essence win this round, sounds a little sour-grape-ish to me…but like i said, i understand your motives…i know have to spin this to myself that it’s a good thing, by focusing on the positives: we keep the best player in baseball, the mvp for 2 of the past 4 years, the likely future homerun king, the answer to the yankees short-lived holes at 3B and in the lineup…blah, blah…
    i usually count on you to be more objective, but this time i was disappointed…

    dc November 17, 2007, 10:22 am
  • dc:
    I don’t have any “motives” in this. I don’t really like that language, since it implies there is an agenda on my part and that agenda is driven by simple bias. Honestly, the only agenda I have (and this tracks other events (the Matsuzaka signing, the Torre situation) is on the business aspect of things.
    I have an honest curiosity about the A-Rod dealings as a case of negotiation. Last week YF posted a link to an article in the Times by a Columbia law professor that had a kind of up-is-downism to it, that the A-Rod opt-out was calculated to use the negative PR in the interest of strengthening his position. At the time, it read as kind of silly, but in retrospect it is actually full of insight. I will try to relink to it later.
    Based on all media reports (and these can only be trusted in limited fashion, obviously), Rodriguez had no suitors, but yet he was able to put the Yankees in a position where, with reported incentives, he can approach the 10/350 target that Boras set and almost everyone labeled absurdly high. I find this quite an amazing feat of negotiation. It parallels the Drew situation – by most accounts there was no competition for the Sox, yet they paid through the nose. Boras fascinates me, and the A-Rod situation is, at the very least, fascinating and worthy of discussion. For the most part, I have found the discussion (in general, not at YFSF) to default to the simplistic and reductive “Boras lost out, A-Rod came crawling back” meme.
    I am a SF, no doubt, but that (and the admitted biases that come with my allegiance) has little to do with anything here, honestly.
    Re-signing A-Rod is a great baseball move for the Yankees, and that is another issue.

    SF November 17, 2007, 11:37 am
  • SF. Would you not agree that the way that Boras/A-Rod handled the opt-out was a major mistake? Yes they ultimately got their big contract but the cost of the ill-will towards A-Rod must be factored into this. I agree with you that the prevailing meme that you stated above is a bit tiresome, but I do believe there is some truth to it. Boras may not have lost out as he is getting 5% of lots of $$$ but I do think his reputation has taken a hit here. The world series announcement was a major mistake on his part and has had an effect on everything that has come afterwards.
    I also do not agree with the supposition that according to the media, A-Rod had no other suitors. It seemed clear to me that the Angels at a minimum and perhaps the Giants, Dodgers, and the Red Sox were gearing up to make a run at him. I dont think that you can go by accounts comments like “we’ll kick the tires” or “sounds like a lot of money but we will monitor the situation” as a lack of interest. These were just initial publicly stated early bargaining positions in my view. To me its pretty clear that the market for A-Rod was not permitted to fully develop. Would he have gotten more later or from someone else? Who knows? But left to his druthers, I cant imagine that Boras would not have preferred to take a little more time to stoke up some more interest in his players.

    sam-YF November 17, 2007, 12:11 pm
  • Would you not agree that the way that Boras/A-Rod handled the opt-out was a major mistake?
    Well, I came under some fire for my thoughts on the clumsiness of the opt-out (I personally wasn’t bothered by it, and put up a lengthy post about it), but at the term it was certainly, in the eye of the majority of the public, a bad move. But now with A-Rod close to agreeing to a contract worth potentially $315M+ and for a ten-year period I question whether it had any impact on the negotiations themselves.
    The PR is a separate issue from the acutal negotiations. The PR was bad, no doubt, but I am beginning to think it had little to do with the end result of the dealmaking in a negative sense.
    As for the Sox “kicking the tires” on A-Rod, why would their interest be any different than the Yankees’ in Lowell, which has been dismissed here and elsewhere (and reasonably so) as done in the name of driving a price up for others?

    SF November 17, 2007, 12:32 pm
  • There were also a number of solid arguments made here as to why the Sox would actually have more than a kicking the tires interest in A-Rod.
    I guess talking about Boras’ overall performance here depends on how you define his job. If you define his job only as getting the biggest contract at any cost for his player, there arent too many complaints for him. (even if he could have got a bigger contract elsewhere it wouldnt have been too much bigger). However, I see an additional responsibility of an agent is to control and promote his player’s image and reputation. I think Boras clearly failed in this regard. To me this is an important consideration. Lots of acrimony could have been avoided had they had these contract talks from the outset.
    Also, where do you come up with $315+ mil number?

    sam-YF November 17, 2007, 12:57 pm
  • more and more evidence suggests that this move was not engineered by Boras. Here is another…
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3115789&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

    sam-YF November 17, 2007, 1:48 pm
  • I was wrong about the $315M – Tyler Kepner reported that the deal could “exceed $300M”. My bad.
    I seriously doubt this whole affair will have any impact on Rodriguez’ marketability, PR shenanigans and all that. The hit (and I am having a really hard time seeing what “the hit” was when A-Rod took down a bigger deal than anyone really expected from what I have read over the past three weeks, ten years and $300M+) is what? Whatever image issues A-Rod had he had before this craziness, there was really nowhere to go but up, and now he can move on with some cleanliness.

    SF November 17, 2007, 2:27 pm
  • Again, I’ll hit you with what is obviously a very difficult question:
    “When’s the last time Boras settled a deal in the second week of November?”
    The Yankees easily won because everything has been on their terms. They set the initial terms (opt-out = no negotiate) and when Boras called the bluff (I’d love to have Buffet as an advisor), A-Rod came crawling back. There was no market value because the market never developed. The Yankees wouldn’t let it. 250 million didn’t come out in November last time. It took a while for that offer to present itself. Boras never got that chance because A-Rod pulled the rug.
    They also won on the price based on one simple fact:
    MLB just reported revenues of 6 Billion and yet A-Rod is getting a paycut of over 7 million relative to what he was supposed to make over the next three years. The sport is exploding and the best player is taking a paycut. Meanwhile, the bonus will only count is A-Rod breaks the homerun record. The total sum is alot but for the Yankees it represents less than 15% of their yearly budge. That budget will only grow as their revenues increase and with the extra $50 million a year the new stadium brings. Meanwhile, the impact of the A-Rod expenditure will decrease in impact and with inflation. That’s a win through and through – now and in 2016.
    Not surprisingly one lone Sox fan wants to put another spin on things and while failing to address the most basic questions.

    Mike YF November 17, 2007, 2:41 pm
  • I think it’s difficult to know whether the Yankees “won” the negotiation – perhaps Boras settled the deal in early November because he saw every other team balking at the length and money of the contract he wanted. The longer it took them to sign elsewhere, the less NY might have been prepared to offer because it would have been clearer that the market for him was weak. I don’t know if this is in fact what happened, but it’s a possible interpretation.
    Also – I haven’t done the math myself, but aren’t the Yankees still paying more than they would have under their initially offered terms, because the Rangers money is gone? I realize that A-Rod is getting a couple million less guaranteed than he would have, but all of that is coming from NY now. Honestly, it seems like the real winner here is Tom Hicks, and neither A-Rod nor the Yankees are getting as good of a deal as they would have had he never opted out.

    Jackie (SF) November 17, 2007, 7:18 pm
  • Except A-Rod gets the length he wanted (10 years) when it’s not altogether apparent anyone else was willing to offer that many years, and he gets money at the back end of the contract he couldn’t have gotten had he not opted out and entered free agency at the end of his original contract. So in at least two significant senses, A-Rod/Boras “won.”
    Not surprisingly, considering the source(s), Mike is taking an unnecessarily dogmatic approach to a complex issue for which there are several valid interpretations.

    Paul SF November 17, 2007, 11:30 pm
  • “Except A-Rod gets the length he wanted (10 years) when it’s not altogether apparent anyone else was willing to offer that many years, and he gets money at the back end of the contract he couldn’t have gotten had he not opted out and entered free agency at the end of his original contract.”
    You’re simply making that up and worse, it’s a hypothetical that can never be answered. Meanwhile, the second part makes no sense.
    Seriously, when’s last time Boras settled a contract in second week of November?
    Or better, when’s the last time even a five year free agent contract was negotiated by the second week of November?
    The Sox fan preferred interpretation is valid only if you ignore the last twenty years of evidence and if you squint your eyes really tight.

    Mike YF November 18, 2007, 12:02 am
  • “Seriously, when’s last time Boras settled a contract in second week of November?”
    I don’t know if it was the last time, but Tek signed a deal on November 9, 2004.
    What’s you point?

    Tyrel SF November 18, 2007, 1:58 am
  • This is pretty simple. Had A-Rod, likely beginning his decline phase, chosen to play out the rest of his regular contract with the Yankees, finishing in 2010, the chances that he would have gotten $30M per season in 2017 would have been incredibly slim. I would bet by 2010, A-Rod won’t be putting up 50-HR seasons, and teams would be unwilling to give him seven years, let alone $30M in years 6 and 7. He’d probably get five, maybe 6, at $25M.
    So under this deal he gets those years at $30M, and not only that, the Yankees pay all of his salary until 2010, instead of his salary-minus-$10M.
    Is that speculation? Of course it is. But so is: “There was no market value because the market never developed.” You forget that the market was largely dependent on what A-Rod did. He WAS the market. With the exception of Cabrera, no third baseman was moving until A-Rod did.
    I’m not unwilling to acknowledge that there was no market, that A-Rod told Boras to screw off and went back to the Yankees on his own to humbly request the Yankees give him their best offer. But if that is indeed what happened, the Yankees must be an awfully generous organization to help A-Rod get exactly what Boras was looking for (10 years, $300M+)…

    Paul SF November 18, 2007, 2:36 am
  • “What’s you point?”
    The Boras playbook for free agents was thrown out the window. Why is that important? Because the free agent market has yet to develop. Lowell and Rivera haven’t even signed 3 or 4 year deals yet. Historically, the biggest names sign in December (Zito, Manny, Hampton, Giambi, Beltran). We simply will never know if a bigger contract was out there for A-Rod.
    “This is pretty simple. Had A-Rod, likely beginning his decline phase, chosen to play out the rest of his regular contract with the Yankees”
    So simple that you’re making up a hypothetical of a hypothetical. You’re supposing both that he didn’t have the opt-out leverage and/or didn’t intend to renegotiate this off-season.
    That’s flat out wrong. The opt-out was Boras’ invention to get A-Rod back on the market at a prime age. And there was no stopping that. Everyone knew it. That’s why every interview with him involved the opt-out. So the Yankees looked ahead, saw how the market typically develops with Boras at the wheel, and basically took back control.
    Meanwhile, it’s not generosity – it’s simple math. First, by all reports it’s 275 million over 10 years. Count the bonus when he breaks the HR record. Until then, it doesn’t exist (like any incentive). Second, every organization (see for example baseballprospectus) that has calculated what A-Rod is worth has put the number somewhere between $27 million and $30 million annually. Third, MLB and Yankee revenues are skyrocketing. What is spent today is actually worth less next year. And the Yankees are currently taking their luxury tax and applying it to the new stadium – where they stand to make an additional $50 million a year. For them, this A-Rod contract was very easy to swallow. That’s why it came together so quickly.
    What no one is asking: If the Yankees are really paying too much (as some here are implying), why are they paying at all? Don’t they have the leverage if A-Rod crawled back?
    The answer is too simple to contemplate:
    It’s a good deal for the Yankees and they were in control.
    (And actually Boras was looking for 350 million – if you doubt A-Rod is worth that, look what Bonds did for a terrible Giants team. That was exactly Boras’ play in LA. So, no, Boras didn’t get “exactly” what he was looking for. It was the high end of the financial models but it was realistic given current revenues of 200 million per team).

    Mike YF November 18, 2007, 9:41 am
  • This whole thing has played out while I’ve been away in the Caribbean (loving it) and I’ve followed the anlaysis about it on this site.
    First, lp, I was wrong for being so certain this would never happen. I was more certain of it following Hank’s comments than I was after A-Rod opted out, but clearly, I was wrong and you were right.
    Second, people can say what they want about Boras and A-Rod playing this so well and Boras not losing anything because he made a hell of a lot of money. But it is an embarassment to an agent to have a player who, upon the advice of others (Warren Buffett, apparently), chooses to go it alone in a negotiation.
    If anyone thinks the Yankees would not have come up to $275 million as a total package – and that they would have therefore assumed in doing so that no other team would have gone near that figure – I think that is a fantasy. That is around the figure (his annual salary plus a premium of another $2.5 mil/year) that everyone assumed he would land if not higher (no one bought the $350 mil absurdity).
    The fact that Boras’ blunder led the Yankees to have to spend it all out of their pockets rather than with the Texas subsidy is not a “win” for Boras (or A-Rod). Yes it sucks slightly for the Yankees, but they have the money – clearly.
    And Boras would have made a killing no matter what happened in the A-Rod sweepstakes, so you can’t just point to a huge figure that he gets and say he won here.
    Boras’ highest-profile client (and for Boras that is saying something) ended up making a deal through Goldman Sachs rather than Scott Boras because Boras mishandled the situation. And saying this was all a big Boras plot is unrealistic. That’s like people who give the CIA way too much “credit” for incredibly complex and unpredictable events that happen in the world. It assigns a kind of retroactive omnipotency to him that just serves to grow the legend which, in a world where perception is more important than reality, is not something to which anyone should want to contribute.
    Boras screwed up. He created a major PR disaster for A-Rod (who else could have gotten Peter Gammons to act apoplectic for weeks regarding a player???).
    Now because he was A-Rod’s agent at the time A-Rod opted out, he made a lot of money. But he made it in a way that did not serve his client any better than he otherwise would have done and – thanks to the PR flap – actually was a disservice to him.
    Please stop assinging to Boras some all-knowing ability to manipulate events, even when all evidence makes clear that this one got out of his hands and then was literally taken out of his hands by his biggest client.

    IronHorse (yf) November 18, 2007, 11:32 am
  • Reasonably stated, IH, though obviously I don’t agree with it 100 percent.

    SF November 18, 2007, 11:48 am
  • //We simply will never know if a bigger contract was out there for A-Rod.//
    Well, Mike, I have a simple question for you then – if there WAS a bigger contract out there for A-Rod, why did he come back to NY? If it was for some intangible reasons (the ‘winning’ ethos, big market, didn’t want to seem like he couldn’t hack it on the ‘biggest’ stage), then why did he opt out in the first place?
    I still think that A-Rod/Boras made a mistake in opting out rather than pushing for an extension that included the Rangers dollars, and I think the Yankees may also have made a mistake in giving him so many years/dollars before they saw what the market for him was. Maybe other teams valued his play at upwards of $30m/year, but it doesn’t mean they were willing to pay that amount for him.

    Jackie (SF) November 18, 2007, 2:03 pm
  • Why is it so unbelievable that A-Rod might actually have wanted to come back to the Yankees?
    He became very comfortable here last season, finally won over the fans, and the Yankees provide him with the most exposure and fame. The opt-out without negotiations very easily could have been a miscalculation on their part. I think the yankees basically gave A-Rod the contract they would have given him in extension offers so from that perspective its hardly a mistake. One can try to read tea leaves to figure out what was and wasnt out there in terms of other contracts but Mike’s stipulation that we will never know is most certainly true.
    I really feel that there has been in general an effort from many of the SFs on this site to down play any credit to the Yankees and A-Rod about how they handled this entire situation. Why is it possible that Schilling and others would want to come back to the sox but not so for a player to the Yankees?

    sam-YF November 18, 2007, 2:15 pm
  • Sam, I wasn’t saying that it was unbelievable that A-Rod would have wanted to come back – the intangibles I mentioned above are certainly considerations. But if you assume that A-Rod wanted to stay a Yankee, then the only reason he would have opted out would have been for more money… which apparently did not materialize, or he would have taken it (otherwise why opt out and risk the Rangers dollars?)… indicating that the market was weak, and that maybe the Yankees could have re-signed him for less. If there had been a huge market for A-Rod, then he should have taken the biggest offer out there, otherwise there was no point in opting out. You can’t have it both ways.

    Jackie (SF) November 18, 2007, 2:21 pm
  • Apologies if I sound like an ass here – I’m not trying to crap on anyone or refuse to give anyone credit. I just enjoy dissecting these goings on.
    I should probably also clarify that I don’t think this is a terrible deal for the Yankees by any means, just that I think they could have gotten away with paying less. The biggest mistake (IMO) was the opt out, which was all Boras/A-Rod.

    Jackie (SF) November 18, 2007, 2:31 pm
  • I dont agree Jackie. He could have opted out thinking the yankees are gonna get back into this no matter what. Then realized they were not gonna be getting back into the discussions without him doing something. Im sure the yankees said we will make you this large offer now but we are pulling it off the table if you start talking to other teams. We arent gonna be used to up the contract you get from elsewhere.
    This isnt so farfetched of a scenario considering its exactly what has been reported to have happened. Its possible to construct other ways of describing what happened but Im gonna go with the story reported by multiple sources using information from many parties.
    A-Rod hadnt received any other offers yet but that doesnt mean that they werent on their way. Its not like the Yankees were the only team interested in the best player in baseball. The other negotiations simply hadn’t started.

    sam-YF November 18, 2007, 2:35 pm
  • Well, Jackie, all we know is what’s been reported and has happened. Boras convinced A-Rod to opt-out. The aftermath was so bungled, A-Rod decided to go elsewhere for advice. Less than two weeks later, he’s a Yankee for life.
    What the Sox fans aren’t answering:
    A-Rod could have just as easily done all this with the Yankees in another two weeks or even a month. He didn’t have to do it when he did it. He could certainly have waited to watch the market and offers develop. He didn’t and it never did.
    You can “have it both ways” when you realize it’s one person being pushed around over loyalties. He listened to Boras, realized his mistake, and made amends as quickly as possible. All this happened in less than three weeks. Worse for the Sox fan arguments, A-Rod contacted the Yankees as soon as one week after the opt-out.
    Conspiracy theorists can have it as Boras feverishly working the phones in that week even as A-Rod was going behind his back with intermediaries. I’m sure there’s a good novella somewhere in there.

    Mike YF November 18, 2007, 2:39 pm
  • “I should probably also clarify that I don’t think this is a terrible deal for the Yankees by any means, just that I think they could have gotten away with paying less.”
    Maybe. Maybe not.
    I find it interesting that multiple objective sources (Pinto, BP) think A-Rod is worth 27 – 30 million/year.
    Teams and agents run very sophisticated financial models and, more importantly, they have better info to start with.
    What’s important is that A-Rod gets an average yearly raise (from 25.2 to 27.5), but the more immediate years, it’s actually a pay cut. In essence, the Yankees are shifting the more expensive years (he could have earned 35 million/year from 2008-2010) to the end of the contract. That when those dollars will be worth less, because of inflation, but also when they’ll be making more, because of MLB’s rocketing revenues and the new stadium.
    So, yeah, they’ll be overpaying for years 40 through 42, but it’s becuase they will have underpaid for years 32-34 (relative to what his contact would have been).
    Once A-Rod came back, it was in the interests of both parties to get the deal finished. In going cheap, they could have easily killed negotiations. Instead they’ve reached a fair deal at numbers that easily fit A-Rod’s current and future worth.

    Mike YF November 18, 2007, 2:52 pm
  • What do you mean by “the aftermath was bungled” if not “the market was weaker than Boras thought/told A-Rod”? I am still not understanding what you think A-Rod’s motivation for the opt out was – what did Boras tell him to convince him to do it? Just that it would drive up the dollars that the Yankees would offer? Guess they knew the FO was bluffing about not talking to him if he opted out, then.
    I think Sam makes an interesting point – perhaps the Yankees made the post-optout offer and then said it would be off the table after a quick deadline (or if they saw him talking to others). It seems like the most plausible explanation… I’m just surprised that it worked after the opt-out but not before. “No, we’re really serious this time! We won’t negotiate with you if you do X!”
    Oh, and Mike, I would read that novella. :)

    Jackie (SF) November 18, 2007, 3:02 pm
  • Mike, you need to stop now. And get me a beer.

    NH Rob November 18, 2007, 3:03 pm
  • //Once A-Rod came back, it was in the interests of both parties to get the deal finished. In going cheap, they could have easily killed negotiations. Instead they’ve reached a fair deal at numbers that easily fit A-Rod’s current and future worth.//
    It’s true. I guess in my heart of hearts I just wanted the Yanks to stick it to A-Rod for trying to play them… or at least not give him more or less exactly the deal he wanted in the first place. There should have been some kind of consequence for taking the Rangers money away, you know? But in the end, A-Rod is a fantastic player, and it does make sense for them to not sabotage the negotiations that way.
    I think it *is* a fair deal, but in baseball getting a fair deal done typically means that someone left something on the table. I’m just trying to figure out which side left what. And drive you crazy in the meantime, I guess.

    Jackie (SF) November 18, 2007, 3:10 pm
  • “aftermath was bungled” = World Series, fan backlash, Yankee statements, etc.
    Boras = “Best way to get your true value. The Yankees will get back in this thing.”
    If the A-Rod really wanted to test the market, he would have done so. But that means coming back to the Yankees in December, not now. He gained absolutely no insight from being on the market for one week prior to contacting Buffet and the Goldman Sachs partner.
    Rob, I’ll be right there.

    Mike YF November 18, 2007, 3:11 pm
  • Nobody complains when free agents file at the earliest possible moment (Lowell did it, nobody made a stink). This gives him the most leverage. A-Rod did exactly the same thing, it was just handled poorly. He should have announced Monday morning, that was the only error in judgment. Clearly he and Boras judged the Yanks’ ultimatum of “opt out and we’re done” to be hogwash, and correctly so.

    SF November 18, 2007, 5:03 pm
  • or another way to look at it was they judged the yanks ultimatum as hogwash and were wrong, then acted to correct their error. This is what the reports in the press say i dont see why is it so hard to believe.

    sam-YF November 18, 2007, 6:04 pm
  • “If the A-Rod really wanted to test the market, he would have done so. But that means coming back to the Yankees in December, not now.”
    Although had he put the Yanks FO on the back burner and tried to see what the market looked like, there’s a reasonable chance that the Yanks would’ve put together a package for Cabrera, or signed Lowell, or done something else that could’ve blocked Arod’s return.

    Tyrel SF November 18, 2007, 7:13 pm
  • Who crawled back to whom?
    Uh, the Yanks made a statement, went about their business, and did not contact A-Rod.
    That would be crawling how?
    Yes, the Yanks paid more than their initial offer. The first offer is rarely the highest.
    Methinks someone is trolling.

    Anonymous November 19, 2007, 7:00 am
  • Sam:
    It wasn’t “opt out and we’re done, um, unless you call us”.

    SF November 19, 2007, 7:36 am
  • No, it was:
    “Opt out and we’re done.”
    “Oh, you’d like to talk now? Okay, here’s how we’re going to do it.”
    “That was easy. Let’s go public now.”
    Meanwhile, the MVP gets announced today!

    Mike YF November 19, 2007, 8:25 am
  • This is all moot, I honestly don’t care about their public statements other than to understand how the scenario unfolded. What I am most interested in is how this all came down as negotiation. This stuff fascinates me to no end. I wish people could see beyond the rivalry when reading some of the comments. All the posturing had impact on both side of the table. The Yankees realized they needed Rodriguez (maybe even in spite of their hardline statements, and paid as such), Rodriguez knew he needed the Yankees (maybe all along) and had to take a hit to his image (that’s if you believe his image could suffer any more) to “crawl back”. In the end, we need a Gordon Edes-type piece of journalism from when the Sox/A-Rod deal fell apart that gets all the information as accurately as possible on the record to understand what really happened in more depth. Until that happens (and it may never happen), we are all probably right in our opinions and also a bit wrong in our opinions.
    Here’s Cashman’s comment:
    “I can reaffirm that if Alex Rodriguez opts out of his contract, that we will not participate in his free agency,” Cashman said after the second day of meetings concluded. “That is accurate and that is definitive.”
    Or “maybe we will, sort of kind of…”?

    SF November 19, 2007, 8:32 am
  • You can’t say you don’t care, then consistently put the spin you want on it, irrespective of the facts.
    By all accounts (every single one), the Yankees were done….until A-Rod himself, sans Boras, came back to them, first through intermediaries (Buffet to Goldman Sachs) then directly.
    And that’s the only thing that matters in terms of how it went down. The rest is mere hyperbole, spin, and BS. Your continuing need to “understand” is a cover for slinging mud wherever you’d like. Like I’ve said before, I understand the pettiness towards A-Rod, but it just makes you look silly, especially with a championship in the bag.

    Mike YF November 19, 2007, 8:55 am
  • Mike/Rob/Pete/Sybil/Whoever you may be:
    Go away. Your attacks are ugly.
    Please. I am asking you as one fan to another, can you please stop sullying this site with your presence? If you disdain most of us who write here (you’ve attacked just about everyone at some point or another), then please go somewhere else with more like-minded people with whom you feel a kinship.

    SF November 19, 2007, 9:02 am
  • What are you talking about? Have you really had that much trouble with that many people? Seriously, whenever you want to come visit Rob and I in Scranton, we’ll find you a place on the floor.
    And “attack”? You’re kidding right?

    Mike YF November 19, 2007, 9:21 am
  • Mike, the only one not being courteous and acknowledging that this is a complex case with likely multiple partly correct scenarios is you. You’re the George W. Bush of this thread, trying to act like the George Will. It ain’t workin’.

    Paul SF November 19, 2007, 9:49 am
  • I have yet to see a Yankee fan say it’s “complex”. You can say it’s more complicated all you want but every single report paints a very simple picture. The only complication I see is Sox fans reading tea leaves and imagining all sorts of other scenarios.
    And you can’t expect people to be “courteous” when you start calling people names unprovoked – and the for letter names at that. That’s not a recipe for civilized discourse.

    Mike YF November 19, 2007, 9:59 am
  • Mike
    At this point you should just disengage. The SFs on this site have a different read on this situation for a number of reasons. Their read is for the most part not in tune with what has been reported in the press, etc. Perhaps this just reflects the frustration of the yankees retaining the services of the best player in baseball. I think we all just need to agree to disagree and move along. A-Rod is gonna be a yankee for good and our team should reap the benefits of this for years to come.
    Paul and SF – IMO i think that mike has been very civil for the most part during this conversation and made a number of good points. There has been stubbornness on both sides of the ball in this thread.

    sam-YF November 19, 2007, 11:13 am

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