Joba Rules

A tough pitchers duel turned into a rout last night, with Andy Pettitte holding down the Angels for seven innings (allowing just 5 hits and 1 run), as the Yanks wore out John Lackey. They went ahead with 2 in the 7th, and salted it away with 4 more in the 8th. It was late on the East Coast by then, but quite a few Yankee fans stayed up in anticipation of a view of phenom Joba Chamberlain. We were not disappointed. Here’s what happened when he came in, in the eighth:

Joba vs. Clint Mathis
-heat down the middle, 0-1
-heat high outside corner, fouled off, 0-2
-heat up the ladder, 1-2
-slider for the swinging k.

Joba vs. Reggie Willits
-fastball low, 1-0
-fastball high, outside 2-0
-fastball down the middle, 2-1
-single up the middle on a low fastball.

Joba vs. Orlando Cabrera
-hi heat fouled off, 0-1
-slider hi outside corner, 0-2
-slider high is a wild pitch, 1-2, Willits to 2nd.
-slider low for the swinging k.

Joba vs. Vladimir Guerrero
-slider for a swinging strike, 0-1
-heat right down the middle, fouled back. 100 mph according to the stadium gun. 0-2
-slider low away for the swinging k

It was a jaw dropping performance. He was poised. His raw stuff was dominating. He used it with intelligence and considerable precision. Joba now has 14 ks in 8 innings, against just 3 hits and 2 walks. No man has come near scoring. We’ve been conditioned to think about Hughes as "The Franchise," but, however good he has been and might be, the excitement factor with Joba is something different. I can’t think of a young Yankee player who’s drawn anywhere near this kind of excitement or energy. (Shelley Duncan, I think most of us know, is more of a fluke.)

Mo gave up a couple of cheap hits and a run but closed things down for the Yanks in the 9th, who made up a game on both the M’s and Sox. They now head off to Detroit, who will apparently be without Sheff (shoulder) when that series begins tomorrow.

Elsewehere, the not-thrilling Texas offense put up a modern-record 30 runs on the O’s. Crazy in 07.

Comments on this entry are closed.

  • we really just put up a freaking pitch by pitch analysis of one innings worth of work from a kid that has 12 innings worth of work?
    On a related note:
    4 minutes after the game:
    Joba shakes hands and high fives his teammates.
    6 minutes after:
    Joba begins the long walk to the clubhouse.
    12 minutes after the game:
    Joba begins to take off his uniform, and prepare for his shower.
    15 minutes: Joba turns the water on, and gets in the shower.
    20 minutes: Joba dries himself, and begins his long walk back to the locker, accidentally striking out everyone in his path on his way there.
    25 minutes after: Joba is dressed and headed back to the hotel, but just for kicks, he strikes out the limo driver and hotel bus-boy before he retires.
    1 hour after: Joba is poised in his bed of gold, with his arm carefully resting on a pillow of the finest silk and feathers available to man, with dreams of striking out everyone in the world running through his head.
    jesus.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 9:43 am
  • Oh, and at 29 minutes after, Joba took a dump, and it smelled of acacia and lavender.

    SF August 23, 2007, 9:45 am
  • and so, the “franchise” moniker has been lifted from the uber-hyped Phil Hughes, and placed squarely on the shoulders of Joba “the invincible, unhittable” Chamberlain.
    It’s amazing that no other bullpen guy has ever thrown eight scoreless innings before. I could swear it happens all the time, but I guess not.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 9:47 am
  • When do the “use Chamberlain to close” chants start coming from Yankee fans? 14IP, 20IP?
    I mean, if Mariano keeps giving up all of these “cheap hits” that lead to, you know, runs in the ninth, when does the “Joba for Closer” bandwagon get started up?

    Brad August 23, 2007, 9:49 am
  • I heard that Joba came to this earth on a small pod from outer space and landed in a Kansas wheatfield, was raised by a farmer and his wife, ultimately realizing that his mission here was to battle evil, that he could fly, see through walls, leap tall buildings in a sing-
    er, wait, that was a comic book character.

    SF August 23, 2007, 9:52 am
  • Joba should be a closer, if he was a starter I think he would result the same problems that he had at nebraska. he is a good pitcher for 1-2 innings at a time, but in the stretch he is frazzled and over time if he starts shaking off the catcherlike he does some time, he is gonna go down hard.
    I thought it was phil hughes the savior….or whoever else the 100 prospects in the yankee organization that are “the next jeter”
    /yawn

    TheTree1918 August 23, 2007, 9:56 am
  • See what we get from the SFs? Looks like FEAR.

    YF August 23, 2007, 9:57 am
  • Really? I heard that back on the reservation, a much maligned medicine man put a voo-doo spell on Joba’s arm, thus making it one of the most valued appendages on the planet earth. Joba’s arm, in all it’s glory, is rumored to be equaled only by Hogans Biceps, Angelina’s lips, and Jennifer Lopez’ as(sets).
    I don’t even know how he deals with all his greatness.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:00 am
  • From a guy with eight innings of work, YF. Yeah, count me in. Is he going to even pitch to Boston, or will those “baby him” rules be in full working order to keep him from throwing his arm off of his shoulder again?

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:02 am
  • http://yanksfansoxfan.typepad.com/ysfs/2007/08/movin-on-up.html
    You all thought I was crazy when I mentioned Joba was being groomed as the eventual closer.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 23, 2007, 10:05 am
  • I would use him as the closer immediately.
    He’s clearly got the most dominating raw talent, and perecision accuracy I’ve ever seen. Heck, I’d say he’s better than Putz, Jenks, Paps, and Mariano RIGHT NOW! I don’t need to see him throw another pitch to know that.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:08 am
  • Wow, YF, I make a legit complaint about Ellsbury’s “prospect” status and SF’s get their panties in a bunch.
    Here, you nicely summarize what’s exciting about Joba and SF’s shit all over your post. Have they added anything interesting or relevant to this discussion? Weird site here .
    The historical comparison is unprecedented. In the last thirty years, have the Yankees EVER had a power pitcher come up through their system?
    Where Hughes is a righty version of Pettitte (and probably better), Joba is unlike anything we’ve ever seen. He’s off the charts talent. Hopefully the Yankee won’t be so silly to waste that talent on only 60 innings a year.

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 10:11 am
  • When you want to have an intelligent and serious conversation you let me know.
    Man oh man the Nation is all fired up WITH a 5 game lead.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 23, 2007, 10:11 am
  • Hilarious stuff, honestly (no sarcasm). I thought the post was a little silly too. But two things: 1) I think that most people get really excited not because the body of work is extensive or against overly dominant opponents, but mainly because of the relative ease at which its being accomplished. I mean he hasn’t struggled. Yes he hasn’t been put into a really shaky situation, yet, but he is blowing hitters away, and that IS impressive for a 21 year old kid.
    2) Either way getting overly excited about Jaba right now is a little silly. He should have been in, instead of Henn in the first loss to Anaheim. There’s no way you lose that game without him throwing, (Henn is a perennial triple A pitcher at best, and he’s taking up space in that bullpen. It looks like the team is bent on having another Proctor/ Brunney situation, only with lefties now, yes I’m talking about Ron Villone) and that leads me to agree with the entire “babying” idea. He had thrown 9 pitches the day before. Let him F*cking pitch. Thanks. Later.

    LeonardoYF August 23, 2007, 10:13 am
  • Was at the game last night. It was nice to save some face after Tuesday’s beatdown. I told some Angel fan next to me when Joba came in that the kid hits a 100mph at times. The guy gave the “yeah right” look. Joba proceeded to hit 100 on a pitch to Vlad and the guy gave me the “holy shit!” look. Good night to be at the ballpark.
    SF & Brad; thank you. Your smugness and sarcasm really helps affirm my pre-concieved notions of most SF’s.

    bloodyank78 August 23, 2007, 10:17 am
  • Listen this site for the most part is made up of informed, intelligent fans. We don’t need to be lectured about when to get excited, when getting excited is silly and so on. None of us are carving his Cooperstown plaque just yet, but it’s fun to watch.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 23, 2007, 10:18 am
  • Oh, and Shelley Duncan hasn’t really gotten a chance to play very much at all, somewhat understandably so. The point is that he’s made an impact, when he has gotten the opportunity, more often than not. So lets cut the big guy some slack, lest we want karma on our backs. I’m no Buddhist, but right now I’d like as many chips on my side as possible. Here’s to hoping Gary Sheffield retires.

    LeonardoYF August 23, 2007, 10:18 am
  • John –
    What part of “innings limit” don’t you get?
    The Yankees had two choices with Joba:
    1) Leave him in AAA and have him give 5 IP in starts every five days, like Hughes last year.
    2) Bring him up to the Bronx as a one to two inning guy.
    They chose #2 prob because they’re in the middle of a pennant race and the alternative was trading Melky and Kennedy for Gagme.
    People seem to forget that Mo only became a closer because he failed as a starter. That hasn’t happened with Joba, and it would be ridiculously dumb to “groom” him for a role in which he pitches maybe 30 meaningful innings a year.

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 10:19 am
  • Listen dude, I’m not lecturing anyone. In fact just like everyone here I’m just throwing an opinion out. So just relax, its not my fault you decided to write the dumbest play by play in the history of the world, and then got bitten in the ass by the obvious retort from some witty Red Sox fans. We were winnig 7-1 when he came its not the sort of thing you put under a microscope. I like him too. I want him to do well. I think its awesome. So just take a chill pill you blow hard.

    LeonardoYF August 23, 2007, 10:22 am
  • The historical comparison is unprecedented. In the last thirty years, have the Yankees EVER had a power pitcher come up through their system?
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Historical comparison to what? 8IP? Are you serious?

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:23 am
  • SF & Brad; thank you. Your smugness and sarcasm really helps affirm my pre-concieved notions of most SF’s.
    Anytime. I mean, who are we if not jokesters?

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:25 am
  • Hey smartass, how about you name one power pitcher the Yankees have developed in the last thirty years?
    Just one.

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 10:26 am
  • Woosta, I am allowed to have an opinion. Whether you agree with it or not is your call.
    Leonardo, I didn’t write the piece bud. But thanks for calling me a blowhard, LOL.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 23, 2007, 10:26 am
  • Leonardo,
    You and I are officially internet-buddies.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:27 am
  • John- just realized that. I’m gonna go crawl into a cave a die now. Apologies. Go Yanks.

    LeonardoYF August 23, 2007, 10:29 am
  • Uh, that’s the point of my post, John. I don’t agree with it.
    Still waiting, smartass…
    Come on! You can’t come up with one power pitcher that Yankee fans have seen come through their system in the last thirty years? What the hell’s the matter with you?

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 10:31 am
  • Hey smartass…
    Really? You freaking quote “historical comparisons” and then went on to say that Hughes is better than Pettitte, and you’re mad that I laugh at your insane conclusion jumping?
    I’m just going to throw this out there, and I know it doesn’t mean much, because we shouuld never let facts get in the way of a feel good story, but:
    He’s pitched 8 innings in the major leagues.
    I know there is no real “historical comparison” to that kind of scoreless:IP streak to speak of, but holy cow, ’tis a slight overboard – even for you guys.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:33 am
  • I guess time will tell Woosta.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 23, 2007, 10:33 am
  • Oh nevermind!
    I’m just scared of him.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:36 am
  • Hmm thats right. I remember how quiet and humble SFs were about Papelbon.
    It was only when he had an adequate amount of innings behind him that the Ocho Cinco party began.

    Westboro - YF August 23, 2007, 10:37 am
  • Woosta,
    Just because someone has called you out on your over the top historical comparisons and freakishly stinky brain vomit, does not mean you should start calling names.
    I’m sure you’re right. The New York Yankees have never, ever developed a kid that can throw as hard as Joba. In fact, no organization on the planet has. Haven’t you heard – he’s the first person to ever go where he’s going now. He’s the first magician to ever strike out guys like this in his first two weeks. He’s the strongest, most gifted athlete on planet earth right now.
    Of course a thirty year span will not do this kind of talent justice. In fact, you probably have to go all the way back to Ruth to find even a remotely adequate comparison. Historically speaking, of course.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:39 am
  • Fun with numbers – the Gagme collection!
    Since the trade:
    Eric Gagne: 9 G 8 IP 11.25 ERA 2.5 WHIP
    David Murphy: 9 G 19 AB 8 R 11 H 4 2B 3 RBI
    Kason Gabbard: 5 GS 2W 1L 25 IP 3.51 ERA 1.32 WHIP
    and the groin kicker…
    Engel Beltre (17 yo in RK ball): 72 AB .292 .373 .514 .887
    Me, I likey me Joba.

    Woosta August 23, 2007, 10:40 am
  • Thank you, Westboro. You’re making my point. Now, after two full years of service, and having sat down every single good hitter in the american league, we reserve the right to glorify him at will. But, I’m sure that with a little bit of “historical comparison” research, you will find that the Red Sox went 167 years without developing a pitcher of Papelbon’s talent, so yes, we had reason to be excited.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:42 am
  • Brad –
    What you don’t seem to understand – the historical comparison IS unprecedented for the current generation of Yankee fans…
    Unless you can name a power pitcher the Yanks have developed in the last thirty years.
    Thanks for proving my point though!

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 10:42 am
  • OH, MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS! OF ALL THE DRAMATIC THINGS I HAVE EVER SEEN! JOBA CHAMBERLAIN HAS ALLOWED ONE HIT IN A SCORELESS INNING OF WORK IN A NON-SAVE SITUATION!!
    Seriously though, I read this post and got confused because I felt sure that Chamberlain wasn’t making his major league debut, yet here was this pitch-by-pitch report as if he were…

    Paul SF August 23, 2007, 10:43 am
  • Brien Taylor, Philip Hughes

    Paul SF August 23, 2007, 10:44 am
  • Ouch! Not the groin kicker!
    Man, whatever shall we do?
    Woosta has ended this conversation with cut and paste stats for us to see!
    Alas. We must scroll through the “historical” data, and find trades that didn’t work out for NY.
    Where will we find such hard to come by materials?
    Calm down, guy.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:45 am
  • And glad you know your own organization, Brad. But then if the thirteen year old mind matches the body, I wouldn’t be surprised.
    I seem to remember a certain power pitcher that made his debut for the Sox in 1984.

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 10:45 am
  • True enough Brad.
    But YFs suffered an incredibly difficult first half watching the likes of proctor and mostly Farnsie blowing games.
    To see a spark of consistency (albeit just a spark) brings great relief and signs of hope for the future ;)

    Westboro - YF August 23, 2007, 10:45 am
  • Oh, god, the senses of humor are just absent. Joba’s looking great, no argument, but this site is based on the tit-for-tat stuff of the rivalry, so when YF puts up an oozing pitch-by-pitch account and I respond with a quip about Joba’s dump smelling like lavender it’s not a questioning of anything, it’s a joke. One of YF’s endearing qualities is his ability to act like a swooning schoolgirl in front of the Yankees. It’s my job to point that out. ;-)
    I speak for myself only, not Brad or anyone else.

    SF August 23, 2007, 10:46 am
  • “OH, MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS! OF ALL THE DRAMATIC THINGS I HAVE EVER SEEN! JOBA CHAMBERLAIN HAS ALLOWED ONE HIT IN A SCORELESS INNING OF WORK IN A NON-SAVE SITUATION!!”
    You are just jealous of our hot radio biatch!
    I love you Susan.

    Westboro - YF August 23, 2007, 10:47 am
  • Guys. Seriously. The site’s been fun recently, let’s not spoil it. If you’re a Yankee fan, it’s impossible not to be enthusiastic about Joba, because what he’s doing is awesome fun, and the play-by-play just illustrated the dominance. It’s fun. Baseball = Game = Fun. If we can’t enjoy this little run, than, seriously, why follow the game at all? So can’t we all just tone it down a bit? Paps was pretty awesome out of the gate last year. I didn’t begrudge SFs their fun. No reason to go insane here. Either way. Obviously the kid is green. But what he’s done so far has been electrifying in the best possible way. So everyone lighten up. As the commercials say, we live for this. Enjoy it.

    YF August 23, 2007, 10:47 am
  • Right, Paul, cause Brien Taylor made it to the majors and dominated right away.
    And I thought you weren’t talking to me, cupcake?

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 10:48 am
  • My, my, phenom Joba has ruffled the feathers of our sf friends hasn’t he?
    Funny how discussing Wakefield’s contract is off limits, but this BS is OK:
    “Oh, and at 29 minutes after, Joba took a dump, and it smelled of acacia and lavender.”
    ” I heard that back on the reservation, a much maligned medicine man put a voo-doo spell on Joba’s arm, thus making it one of the most valued appendages on the planet earth.”
    “I heard that Joba came to this earth on a small pod from outer space and landed in a Kansas wheatfield, was raised by a farmer and his wife…”
    Double standard, matbe?
    Bottom line – the kid just may be as good as he seems. Can we deal with it like adults, please?

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 10:48 am
  • matbe = maybe

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 10:49 am
  • Woosta,
    What you don’t seem to understand is that you’re basing your historical data on a kid that has 8IP in ML service.
    It’s absolutely no different than me saying this:
    There is no historical comparison within the last thirty years of the Red Sox farm system that we can use to judge Ellsbury speed by. I mean, when was the last time a guy came from withing that runs that fast! It’s freakishly fast! I mean, I can hardly see his white ass!
    See how freaking retarded that sounds, man? I wouldn’t do it, because despite the fact that he probably is the fastest guy to come out of the system in some years, I need to see him play, you know, more than a couple times before I start to make these grand historical comparisons that put him on a level of absolutel greatnessd.
    I mean, the Yankees did develop Mariano, Pettitte, and countless others that were completely awesome. Not as great as Joba, but awesome nonetheless.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:50 am
  • The way I see it, its a reciprocal affect. This is what I mean:
    Eric Gagne: 9 G 8 IP 11.25 ERA 2.5 WHIP
    Jaba Chamberlain: 6 G 8 IP 0.00 ERA .62 WHIP
    My point being that Gagne isn’t THAT bad, and Jaba isn’t THAT good (although god damn i wish he could be). They’ve both pitched 8 innings, my second and more important point, 8 innings is way to small a sample to come to any conclusions. Just as Sox (and Yankees fan)should get overly erected about Gagne, Yanks fans shouldn’t put the “pussy on a pedestal” as was once said in a hilarious movie. Of course that’s a metaphor in this case. We all know what those are right?.

    LeonardoYF August 23, 2007, 10:50 am
  • No Brad, we don’t have to scroll through the “historical” data yet. We just sit back and wait. Just because Gagne had a few shitty outings does not mean this trade might not work out very well for us …

    pale blue eyes August 23, 2007, 10:51 am
  • No kidding, Andrew. Don’t point out either that Ellsbury’s not a prospect.
    (Though SF loves his BA list! So Michael Bowden and Daniel Bard should be arriving in Beantown sometime next year! And they’re WAY better than Chamberlain and Kennedy!!!)

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 10:52 am
  • And glad you know your own organization, Brad. But then if the thirteen year old mind matches the body, I wouldn’t be surprised.
    Actually, Woosta, I was being sarcastic. I know full well what the Red Sox history is. And no, I’m not thirteen years old, nor do I look like it. But again, I guess that’s how you deal with having your ass handed to you on a plate of common freaking sense.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:53 am
  • It sounds like the only people not having fun on this thread are the Yankee fans. They got defensive and angry real fast when SF and Brad poked a little fun. I certainly don’t see where they called YF or Chamberlain “dumb” or “naive”…
    In fact, once again, it appears that one particular poster — not a Sox fan — has lobbed the indendiary devices into this debate.

    Paul SF August 23, 2007, 10:54 am
  • Brad –
    I’m gonna guess that you didn’t score too highly on reading comprehension in school.
    I never said he was the greatest or anything of the sort. I simply said Yankee fans have never seen (not on their team) anything like him in last thirty year (if ever).
    Sure, Mo is as close as they come. But, and here’s the kicker, he didn’t dominate right out of the gate and he wasn’t highly touted.

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 10:57 am
  • Sounds like some folks are a little jealous that Chamberlain a legitimate A prospect has the good chance to be even better than Papelbon.
    Or as Nate Silver said yesterday, “My position on guys like Papelbon is that if you have a guy who projected to be a C+/B- starter, and suddenly he becomes an A+ reliever, you probably shouldn’t tinker with that. But Chamberlain was *way* ahead of Papelbon in terms of what he accomplished in the minors, a potential #1 guy. You have to give him that chance.”

    Ben K. August 23, 2007, 10:58 am
  • Yeah, he’s great! A wonderful conversation mate. I love when it gets to the point that he calls names. It is awesome. The last resort of a man confused by the pretty words: call names.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:58 am
  • Brad –
    I’m gonna guess that you didn’t score too highly on reading comprehension in school.
    Thats funny, Woosta. What’s next? Yo Mamma jokes? That’s what she said lines?

    Brad August 23, 2007, 10:59 am
  • Woosta:
    Your debating tactics are barely worth responding to. You have a really bad case of moving goalposts and shifting focus on discussions to make points that are your own, incendiary, and often off-topic or irrelevant. The BA reference was done to quell your questioning of Soxprospects and the Sox wiki as sources of information about Buchholz. So I took a moment and looked up a non-biased source and a highly respected one, Baseball America, to dispel you stubborn position on Buchholz. Now somehow I am in love with BA or something like that and you use that to cheapen the debate through insult. Can you please clean up your act? It’s tiresome and it’s hurting the site.
    aside to Andrews: I don’t actually think Joba’s dump smells like acacia and lavender. I don’t actually have any clue what his dump smells like, nor do I actually care. It was a joke! Jeez.

    SF August 23, 2007, 10:59 am
  • ” I certainly don’t see where they called YF or Chamberlain “dumb” or “naive”…”
    There is a difference, Paul, between the contract and the man…
    In fact, once again, it appears that one particular poster — not a Sox fan — has lobbed the indendiary devices into this debate.
    Please. Maybe just a touch self-righteous, perhaps???

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 10:59 am
  • Hey cupcake,
    Read the beginning of the thread. If any YF dared to make fun of you for such matters you’d have your panties in a bunch for two weeks, not “talk” to the offending poster, bail on your team, while ten other SF’s rushed to your defense.
    And Brad –
    I’m still waiting for the answer to question posed at 10:11 am:
    The historical comparison is unprecedented. In the last thirty years, have the Yankees EVER had a power pitcher come up through their system?

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 11:02 am
  • ” It was a joke! Jeez.”
    No kidding?
    Just seems like a double standard, that’s all…

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 11:02 am
  • Andrews:
    To be fair to Paul, who has certainly poked the beehive on numerous occasions, Woosta seems to ONLY poke beehives, even when they haven’t been poked by anyone else. You’ve been here long enough to recognize that, I would think.

    SF August 23, 2007, 11:02 am
  • Yeah, I agree. All you’re missing is a hard core love for Jorge Posada and hatred for Varitek, and we’ve already seen your argument a million times.
    Explain to me again how Ellsbury ins’t a prospect? Did I miss something?

    Brad August 23, 2007, 11:04 am
  • Maybe it was a bad joke following Brad’s, I dunno, but take my word for it, Andrews, it was a joke.

    SF August 23, 2007, 11:05 am
  • Woosta – while I understand your frustration with the way things sometimes work on the site – these regular sf posters are good guys , so please don’t result to insults.

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 11:05 am
  • SF –
    If you’re going to rely on BA as a legit line of argument, you have to explain how they could barely rank a difference between Chamberlain and Bowden/Bard. That they have been so different shows how worthless that list is.
    I’ll stick to the stats, thanks.

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 11:06 am
  • “Woosta seems to ONLY poke beehives”
    I haven’t posted much recently, but I have been reading, and that’s not entirely true.
    Everyone needs to take it down a notch, in my opinion…

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 11:08 am
  • Again, Woosta. I’m not debating the fact that you may be correct in your assumption that the Yankees, in the past thirty years, have developed a power pitcher. I can clearly see this has gone entirely over your head.
    My argument is that you are claiming that there is not historical comparison to Joba Chamberlain, when I know for a fact that the Yankees have developed numerous great pitchers in the last thirty years, with wonderfully successful careers. But, you insist on putting a freaking kid with eight innings of work into the same conversation.
    Also, this started as a joke to poke fun back at YF for creating such a funny post (at least I’m assuming that it’s out of comedy, because he couldn’t be serious with a pitch-by-pitch analysis). There was no real need to get the panties all bunched up with “historical comparisons” and name calling.
    But, maybe that’s just your MO. I don’t know for sure, but I do know that I’m not feeding it anymore.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 11:09 am
  • Still waiting, Brad? Brad, hello, Brad? You got one name yet to show that a historical comparison is warranted? That Yankee fans should just yawn at the prospect of Joba…

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 11:10 am
  • you have to explain how they could barely rank a difference between Chamberlain and Bowden/Bard
    Maybe someone is overachieving….you know in his 8IP!!!
    Maybe someone is more like the Nebraska version than his is now.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 11:11 am
  • it is my guess that in a season that was so utterly soul-crushing for so long, the slightest spark of hope for the future shines all the brighter.
    we YFs see a great deal of potential in a young kid who is excited to play and by all accounts is a decent person. he’s easy to root for if you don’t mind the uniform he’s wearing.
    it is indeed early days, though.
    as usual, both sides have dabbled in this kind of hype before.
    for the record, i was hearing papelbon being compared to rivera during his rookie season.

    Yankee Fan In Boston August 23, 2007, 11:11 am
  • I’ll stick to the stats, thanks
    I just reviewed the site, and 91% of your comments are antagonistic, circular, or downright insulting.
    Those stats don’t lie, Woosta…you’re right.

    SF August 23, 2007, 11:11 am
  • You’ll be waiting for awhile. Like I said, I’m not stooping to your kind of argument. Well, I would, but on the internet is pointless.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 11:12 am
  • Honestly, when WAS the last time a Yankee pitcher, who threw 100mph, came up and dominated right away?
    Joba IS unprecedented. His talent is otherworldly, and the results are indisputable. And if you actually watch the games, and see the absolute ease in which Joba pitches high heat, and the poise he has on the mound, it’s even more impressive.
    I thought Gammons was being a bit dramatic when he started ballwashing Chamberlain every chance he got last month. Now it doesn’t really seem so dramatic after all. I cannot wait to see him start every five days.

    AndrewYF August 23, 2007, 11:13 am
  • ” this started as a joke to poke fun back at YF for creating such a funny post (at least I’m assuming that it’s out of comedy, because he couldn’t be serious with a pitch-by-pitch analysis).”
    As such, it was way over the top, and became somewhat offensive…
    ” Paps was pretty awesome out of the gate last year. I didn’t begrudge SFs their fun.”
    So, sf’s don’t begrudge us ours

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 11:14 am
  • Just to be clear, I have no problems with being excited about prospects, in any way. These posts should make it clear that I was kidding with my ‘lavender dump’ quip; I am no hypocrite and I think the regulars around these parts would attest to that.
    http://yanksfansoxfan.typepad.com/ysfs/2005/08/cant_wait_til_n.html
    http://yanksfansoxfan.typepad.com/ysfs/2005/07/look_down_below.html

    SF August 23, 2007, 11:15 am
  • “for the record, i was hearing papelbon being compared to rivera during his rookie season.”
    And you weren’t alone. But, since he plays for the sox, I guess that’s ok.

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 11:17 am
  • Of course the kid is awesome. We were just poking fun, and YF got all bothered by it.
    That’s an excellent point, YFIB.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 11:18 am
  • What you don’t seem to understand, Brad, is that Yankee fans have never seen a guy like Joba come through their system. Not one. That was my point at 10:11 am and that was the point you thought comical. The funny thing is: It’s true!
    RE: poking beehives
    This thread says everything. YF posted something that Yankee fans are legitimately excited about – yup, including every pitch (I know I watched Sportscenter this morning just to see if they’d show his K of Vlad). SF’s proceed to shit all over the post including by referencing bowel movements themselves. I come in and make a true statement, then a SF decides it’s comical and tries to shit all over that statement. No surprise, the SF’s rush to his defense.
    But I’m the one poking beehives? Please, somone, anyone, show me where in that 10:11 am post I did as such.

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 11:18 am
  • I think all we said that he was better than Mariano, AT THE TIME, not overall. He had a better year than Mariano, and is still having a better year than Mariano.
    I, for one, have never said that he’s better than Mariano. Even though, now, he is, I would NEVER say that Mariano’s career doesn’t dwarf anyone to ever pick up a baseball, because it does.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 11:20 am
  • Thanks Andrew(s) – are there two of you?

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 11:22 am
  • Woosta, tag team sf battles are common here.
    They’re frustrating.
    Don’t take the bait and result to insults, though – that makes the discussion about something other than what we really want to talk about: baseball, and the greatest rivalry in sports…

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 11:22 am
  • SF’s proceed to shit all over the post including by referencing bowel movements themselves
    Actually, I don’t think I ever mentioned you by name, Woosta.
    Badump bump. I’ll be here all ze week.

    SF August 23, 2007, 11:23 am
  • Woosta, tag team sf battles are common here.
    They’re frustrating.

    Yeah, you lone gunman renegade individualist YFs stick out like sore thumbs at this place!
    That was a good one, Andrews.

    SF August 23, 2007, 11:27 am
  • Thanks, SF, I will feel free now to never hold the names back. No need to filter them here and you, know, cause I’m just “joking” after all.
    And what happened to my little cupcake? Did he bail for another week or is he not talking to me again?

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 11:28 am
  • brad-
    i don’t remember exactly where, when, or who was saying exactly what about papelbon.
    my point was only that early in his first season, his name was being tossed around with mariano rivera who is widely held (even in circles outside NY) to be one of the greatest relievers ever.
    new england was doing backflips over papelbon right away. we should be allowed a little excitement here.
    that’s all.

    Yankee Fan In Boston August 23, 2007, 11:28 am
  • And now, at the time, I think we can say that Joba is one of the best relief pitchers in the major leagues. It’s not a very qualitative statement, to say the least, but hey: no one’s even come close to hitting a ball especially hard off of him.
    It’s a silly thing to say, though, because there are pitchers that, at a certain point in time, are better than other pitchers. I’m pretty sure Esteban Loaiza was the best pitcher in the majors at one point in time. I’m hard pressed to find a time where Rivera actually was the best relief pitcher in the majors. 2002 to 2004 was dwarfed by Eric Gagne’s (steroid-induced?) run. In 2004 and 2005 Brad Lidge was blowing everyone away. 2006 and 2007 belong to guys like Papelbon and Nathan. From 2000 to 2002 Rivera was sub-par, and even though I can’t remember that far back I am sure there were better pitchers than him. 1996 to 1999, though, maybe he was the best. It doesn’t matter. My rambling point is that saying who’s the best pitcher at a specific point in time is stupid. I don’t even remember how I even got to talking about this. Nevermind.

    AndrewYF August 23, 2007, 11:29 am
  • “I think all we said that he was better than Mariano, AT THE TIME, not overall. He had a better year than Mariano, and is still having a better year than Mariano…”
    Explain, then how that is different from the excitement about Joba? “AT THE TIME” took in most of the first half of ’06 – when Paple didn’t have many more innings under his belt than Joba.

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 11:30 am
  • “Actually, I don’t think I ever mentioned you by name, Woosta”
    That’s cool because it’s your site, I suppose?
    Nice.

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 11:34 am
  • There is a bit of a double standard going on with Woosta. He’s a needling jerk sometimes, where he might not mean to be, or maybe he does, but EVERY Sox fan takes it so PERSONALLY, that they throw it right back at him, and sometimes are even worse than him in response. If everyone could just ignore the internet ad hominem, it would make this place much much nicer.

    AndrewYF August 23, 2007, 11:36 am
  • Just to jump in here a bit late. I got crapped all over by SFs for saying that the jury was still out on Okajima after the first series of the year between the sox and yankees. My point was essentially the same as the one that Brad is making limited innings didnt make him a sure thing dominating pitcher. Of course, it turns out that he has indeed kept this level up and time did tell so to speak. At the time some SFs, countered with an argument of essentially just watch his stuff and how hitters cant touch him. When it comes to Joba, watching him tells you what you need to know about him. He is dominating right now. Will he keep it up? Again time will tell. But I am glad he is pinstripes and any SF who isnt at least a bit scared of him is lying…

    Sam-YF August 23, 2007, 11:37 am
  • Paul SF August 23, 2007, 11:37 am
  • Badump bump. I’ll be here all ze week.
    Comedy club reference, bad Heineken ad reference, you know, how comedians insult the surly front-rowers. Sorry I didn’t put a winkie icon. Seriously, the accusations that SFs have no sense of humor are hollow when this stuff goes right over the heads. Yowzer.
    I do not advocate name-calling, ever, hence the last line. If I hadn’t put that in, you’d have me cold.
    If it was taken wrong, I apologize. For whatever that’s worth.

    SF August 23, 2007, 11:38 am
  • paul sf, that was freaking hilarious.

    Yankee Fan In Boston August 23, 2007, 11:40 am
  • AndrewYF – you bet they do and I’m not even going to take it personally that you called me a jerk.
    All I know, in this particular thread, I said nothing inflammatory even while SF’s were shitting themselves with glee. And with the way SF responded, I know I’m never to going to worry about insulting someone here again.
    You know, cause I’m just “joking”.

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 11:40 am
  • Andrews. You’re point is a valid one, and I for one, understand where you’re coming from, but as just as YF’s were for telling Sox fans to calm down due to the uber-small sample size, so goes the coin flip. I wasn’t trying to start an argument with anyone. I had no idea that by laughing at the fact that YF posted a pitch by pitch analysis of a guy who was pitching his eigth inning, in a blowout game, would cause such a heated retaliatory comeback. I was only joking, hence the post being riddled with sarcasm and jokes.
    I too, feel that Mariano was the best closer in the game, stats be damned. Now, he’s not, but that doesn’t tarnish my thoughts of him, nor does it make me say that Papelbon is Jenks is better than he ever was. But the last two years has shown that both of them are better than him now. Just like the next two years may show that Joba is better than anyone by comparison.
    Just not yet is all I was saying.
    If at the end of the year, Joba is still dominating guys like he has this week, I’ll be on board with it. I promise.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 11:42 am
  • Um, Sam, I just perused that thread. Your comment about Okajima went completely untouched by Sox fans. You did get jumped on — but not for that.
    Also, let’s remember, using Papelbon in this discussion is misleading unless he was praised this highly by Sox fans in 2005, when he was a late-season callup. I don’t recall any pitch-by-pitch rundowns for him then, even though he pitched very well as a starter/reliever.

    Paul SF August 23, 2007, 11:43 am
  • Hey, I apologize to all SF’s for any and all statements that I may have made that came across as an insult. I’m sorry, truly sorry. I’m always joking. Just don’t take it so seriously.

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 11:44 am
  • Woosta’s first sentence in this thread:
    I make a legit complaint about Ellsbury’s “prospect” status and SF’s get their panties in a bunch.
    End of discussion.

    Paul SF August 23, 2007, 11:44 am
  • Woosta, everyting you say and have said, every word you have posted, with the exception of yesterday for about an hour where I really thought you had seen the error of your ways, is abrasive, incendiary, rude, arrogant and annoying.
    There is only so much the rest of us can take, I have a shorter fuse than Paul and SF and Brad, so I snapped at you earlier, but it was only a matter of time before you pushed it to far.
    I think now, after seeing you try to be civil yesterday, that you’re just a dick and you enjoy being that way.
    Good luck with that.

    LocklandSF August 23, 2007, 11:45 am
  • for the record this post was up on this site 9.1 IP in Okajima’s MLB career…
    http://yanksfansoxfan.typepad.com/ysfs/2007/04/hero_in_the_dar.html
    If someone can explain the difference to me im all ears.

    Sam-YF August 23, 2007, 11:45 am
  • Woosta, you’re a funny dude.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 11:46 am
  • Good grief, why does every fun thread here dissolve into a pissing contest recently? LIGHTEN UP, PEOPLE! Where’s your sense of humor (Woosta, mostly)?

    yankeemonkey August 23, 2007, 11:47 am
  • Anyone ever see that “fighting on the Internet is like running the hundred meter dash in the special olympics” picture floating around.
    That applies to this thread perfectly.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 11:47 am
  • Sam,
    That’s just a ridiculous argument. Praising someone for shutting down your archrivals in a key series is just a bit different for generally fawning over a prospect after 8 IP of work. No pitch-by-pitch comparisons, no talk of him being the be-all and end-all of prospects.
    Okajima was praised precisely BECAUSE he had no expectations and was such a huge surprise. Your comparison is highly, obviously flawed.

    Paul SF August 23, 2007, 11:50 am
  • Hi cupcake!
    That too was a true statement. I had an opinion (informed by lots of stats) and SF’s disagreed mightily.
    Here, I was pointing out the contrast. YF expresses an opinion and SF’s shit all over the post. I’m just glad that behavior is fair game around here. Now I see no reason to ever hold back on the same bullshit.
    Lockland: Do you ever have anything meaningful to add? Or are you just here to frost the cupcake? (I’m joking. That’s a joke. Joking! – especially to be called a “dick”. But I’m sure Lockland was well within his rights – according to other SF’s)

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 11:53 am
  • I guess its a matter of perspective Paul. I remember seeing that post and feeling that SFs were getting really excited about someone who had very limited experience in the bigs. Granted there wasnt a pitch by pitch breakdown, i still felt the message was largely the same.
    I guess its just different if its a sox player that is being praised.

    Sam-YF August 23, 2007, 11:54 am
  • Here ‘ya go, Woosta, or whomever else thinks this is going anywhere:
    http://www.epsilonminus.com/somethingawful/internetchampion.jpg

    Brad August 23, 2007, 11:54 am
  • Fair enough, Brad. I agree.
    But I must say Joba’s performance was more than just: “a guy who was pitching his eigth inning, in a blowout game” He made two great hitters, Cabreara and Vlad look silly. That, in and of itself, is something to be legitimately excited about – worth checking out if you haven’t seen it. I must say it was like a tonic after one tough and one UGLY loss…

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 11:55 am
  • Okay, cupcake, we’ll use your standards and wait until next week to fawn all over our Joba.
    Thanks for clarifying!

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 11:55 am
  • In other (related) news, did anyone else hear Cashman’s interview on WFAN last week in which Francesa asked re: Joba Rules and Cashman referenced Papelbon?
    Cashman confirmed that Joba does come to Torre with rules, he comes with rules that Cashman has determined, and that Cashman has done so to avoid the kind of thing that was seen with Papelbon last year (he referenced last August specifically).
    He indicated that overwork of Papelbon led to the brief respite that Papelbon had to take but, more importantly, that it struck fear in Boston management and fans re: jeopardizing a key part of RS’ future and the Yankees want to avoid doing the same thing with Joba, thus the rules.
    Thought that would be interesting to SF and YF alike.
    And for the record, it is my poop that smells like lavendar. Anyone who doubts this can give me their address and I will be happy to mail a sample.

    IronHorse-YF August 23, 2007, 11:56 am
  • Easy, Lockland. It’s harder to poke fun if you sink to that level, man.

    Brad August 23, 2007, 11:56 am
  • I guess its just different if its a sox player that is being praised.
    Let’s stop with this kind of sanctimonious crap. Maybe the Sox fans were fawning all over Okajima because he had just beaten the Yankees, which last I checked means something more than beating the Angels. If Chamberlain had beaten the Red Sox by throwing spectacularly well in three straight games (if I’m remembering that correctly), I don’t think a single Sox fan would begrudge Yankee fans the right to talk about what a great job he did.

    Paul SF August 23, 2007, 11:58 am
  • Every thread remains enjoyable and friendly, the jokes are taken as jokes, barbs are traded, it’s an engaging and interesting community and it remains that way.
    Then a certain somebody shows up and it all goes to crap.
    There is a pattern here and it doesn’t involve any of the other regular SFs and YFs that post here.

    LocklandSF August 23, 2007, 11:58 am
  • SF’s shit all over the post
    And herein lies the source of the problem, the lack of clarity of what is humor and what is not humor, in printed form, improvised in a “comments” window. I posted my comment as a joke, I wasn’t “shitting all over” YF’s work, despite the fecal reference. There’s a difference. If I wanted to take the thread down I would have said something like “this thread is just stupid – the guy has thrown eight innings, has faced no lineups more than once, hasn’t come into a situation with inherited runners, hasn’t proven he can thrown reliably in back-to-back games, and all of a sudden you go breathless on us like some sort of giddy teenybopper seeing ‘High School Musical 2’ for the first time”. But I don’t believe that, in any way, and just followed Brad’s lead an poked fun at the structure and detail of the post. But somehow a one-liner about Joba’s poo is extended to mean what I typed above, even though that’s a stretch on the reader’s part, and nothing like what I wrote.
    Can we all just leave this be for now? Clearly people are reading things that aren’t there, aren’t making their humor clear enough (myself included), and are just perturbable; this debate is a dead-end.

    SF August 23, 2007, 12:01 pm
  • Paul, in the vid, is the part of YF being played by the guy in the gray vest on the table?

    Andrews August 23, 2007, 12:01 pm
  • Wow easy there Paul. Its not like the tone of your post towards me was much better.
    FYI beating the angels in anaheim is kind of a big deal to us YFs considering it only happens once a year or so!

    Sam-YF August 23, 2007, 12:01 pm
  • Exactly, Lockland. So please you and Brad and anyone else, DO NOT ENGAGE. We’ve dealt with this before. We will deal with it again. The faster we can recognize the trolls, the easier it will be for all of us and the better it will be for the site.

    Paul SF August 23, 2007, 12:01 pm
  • Lockland –
    Get your head out of your ass and you might see reality better.
    (Joking! That’s a joke! Still joking!)
    And don’t worry cupcake – you get to see Joba shutdown the Sox next week.

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 12:02 pm
  • Apologies for the tone of my post, Sam. A flash of anger there. But the substance remains. I think my post about Okajima and this one about Chamberlain are decidedly different, and in decidedly different contexts.
    At any rate, the hero of last night’s game was Pettitte anyway. Chamberlain entered in a non-save situation — again, entirely different from the situations in which Okajima pitched against the Yankees early this year

    Paul SF August 23, 2007, 12:04 pm
  • Joba has been lights-out so far, no one can deny that. Hell, even I got excited when he came in the game last night. The kid is downright nasty.
    However the pitch-by-pitch commentary was comical, since it was a 7-1 game at the time and not the 9th inning of Game 7. YF’s should definitely be excited about him, but the pitch-by-pitch was excessive. Plus, we all have gameday ;-)
    Sox fans made fun of this excessiveness with humour. Jokes that are not 100% serious, but are meant to make people laugh. This was all fun and games involving the friendly rivalry, until Woosta joined the post and start breaking out the personal attacks:
    -“Smartass” (twice)
    -“13 year old boy”
    -“You didn’t score high on the comprehensive test did you?”
    Can we please keep this from turning into a personal-attack war? It makes YOU look like the 13-year old, Woosta.

    Atheose August 23, 2007, 12:05 pm
  • So, SF, explain how Lockland calling me a “dick” fits into your worldview.
    When you guys allow certain stuff and propagate it yourself, you’re then going to try to be above it?
    And for the record, I have yet to see anyone around here tell a SF to “tone it down”.

    Woosta YF August 23, 2007, 12:06 pm
  • Just to sprinkle a little more gasoline on the fire check out; http://nomaas.org/; today. It’s pretty funny given the base topic of this thread.

    bloodyank78 August 23, 2007, 12:08 pm
  • Everyone should tone it down. “We all” should tone it down, as I wrote. “We all” meaning “everyone”. And “everyone” meaning everyone, SF and YF alike.

    SF August 23, 2007, 12:09 pm
  • Unreal… Moving on.
    For the record, I think Joba is nasty and I think YFs have every right to get excited over what they are seeing.
    He’s just filthy.

    LocklandSF August 23, 2007, 12:09 pm
  • What i think is funny, BY, is that that’s a Yankee blog, and the first two posts are about the Red Sox and their fans.
    And it’s the SFs who are obsessive about the other side… Riiiiight.

    Paul SF August 23, 2007, 12:09 pm
  • I’m a busy man. I don’t have time for this nonsense and for all the bullshit ad hominem. For the record, I agree with AndrewYF. But Woosta, if you wish to continue here, disparaging remarks like “cupcake” and insults to anyone are absolutely not acceptable, no matter how you interpret what you’ve received in this thread. That’s not an idle threat.
    For those interested, the play by play was a cut paste job from the game thread, where it was pretty useful to those who didn’t have eyes on the game. So everyone can calm down. This thread is officially closed. Behave. I don’t have time to police this blog. If you want to have it, treat it with respect. Period.

    YF August 23, 2007, 12:12 pm

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