Joe Torre: A View from the Dugout

Peter Abraham, who is becoming ever more indispensible, offers a portrait of Joe Torre today at the equally indispensible Baseball Analysts site. This is essential reading, and a reminder, even after last night’s bullpen fiasco (not really Joe’s fault), of why the Yankee manager is the best in the business, period. And if you’re looking for further evidence of this fact, we might direct your attention to the American League standings, where our depleted Yankees have somehow managed to move within 1.5 games of the Sox in the East, and are now leading—leading—in the wild card race.

74 comments… add one
  • I agree, Torre is one of the greats, no question.
    But, I don’t think it’s that amazing that the Yankees are close, their pitching has been better than the Red Sox, who’s starting staff is essentially down to two real starters.
    This just goes to show that pitching is the most important part of the game and you can NEVER have too much of it.

    LocklandSF July 27, 2006, 12:02 pm
  • Please answer the following questions for me:
    1. What bullpen fiasco?
    2. If you can support that there was a fiasco, why is Torre not to blame?
    3. Why are the Yankees depleted and not the Red Sox? The Yankees have an overabundance of skilled offensive players, more than any other team in baseball. When the injuries hit, they had a lot of wiggle room. A LOt of wiggle room. And given that pitching wins championships, the Yankees have not had the same pitching injury problems as the Red Sox. I am more amazed at the job Tito has done with his pitching woes than at what Torre has done.
    The Yankees were .5 games of the Sox what, a week ago? then it was 3.5 games in a few days. Then the Sox go to the coast, where the Yanklees lost, too, and the lead is back to 1.5 games.
    If the season ended today, the manager of the year voting in the AL would be:
    1. Jim Leyland
    2. Terry Francona
    So, your logic is a bit tortured.
    Torre is a fine manager. A great manager.
    But let’s tone down the hyperbole a bit. There are a lot of great managers out there.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 27, 2006, 12:06 pm
  • 1&2: the fiasco came about when farns hurt himself warming up. that’s not joe’s fault.
    3: i think if you went and added up all of the cumulative warp the yanks have had on the dl over the season, the sox would not be in the vicinity, but there was no comparison there anyway.
    it’s no knock on leyland or tito (or showalter or scoscia or larussa) to laud joe.

    YF July 27, 2006, 12:25 pm
  • The bullpen fiasco wasn’t Torre’s fault as YF correctly notes. Farns couldn’t go so he pretty much did whatever he could in a time of crisis. My only problem with Joe in that inning was that he didn’t go to Myers to get Blalock and then left Proctor in after it was obvious he had nothing. It all worked out though, so of course Joe’s a genius.
    Bill, to say the Sox injuries have been to the same extent as Yankees is disingenuous. Schilling and Beckett have been solid for the most part, Wake mostly victimized by lack of run support unless the broken rib (while sleeping?? wtf?). And let’s not forget Mr. Lester, the 7-0 wonder. Sure, the 4/5 starter spot has been a long nightmare, but so has the Yankees’. Or did you miss where they signed Sir Sid(!) because there’s no one else. Yeah, they haven’t had the same pitching injury problems, but whoever they had healthy and available hasn’t exactly been Steve Carlton and Sandy Koufax. Add to that the loss of 2 100+ RBI producers, Cano’s monthlong absense and ARod’s and Giambi’s funk, and you have to admit no one could have expected Yanks to hang in there with a spring-training split squad lineup practically every game. I’m pretty sure that fielding a lineup that features Miguel Cairo, Nick Green, and Bubba Crosby doesn’t qualify as wiggle room.

    yankeemonkey July 27, 2006, 12:30 pm
  • Bill,
    Giving up a walk and 5 straight hits to surrender a lead you had just taken was a fiasco in my book. Beam and Proctor did not record a single out. Torre is to blame for pressing the envelope with a much overworked Proctor; but given the chance to make up ground, and Farnsworthless’ sudden injury(?), he deserves a pass.
    To evidence the Yanks’ depletion, I’ll quote the old horse’s ass himself: “That team is devastated. We have to take advantage.”

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 12:34 pm
  • Joe deserves criticims for pushing Tom Gordon till he cried mercy, using Sturze till his arm fell off and trying to set a record for number of appearances by a relief pitcher with Proctor. He has other options, and while they’re not ideal, they are what they are and he needs to stop running men into the ground and possibly wearing them out for the playoffs.

    Sam July 27, 2006, 12:36 pm
  • Horse’s ass = Schilling. Just in case.

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 12:39 pm
  • Sorry, dude. The disingenuousness is on your end. I’m not buying it.
    As I said, the Yanks started the season with an overabundance of offense. They had A LOT of wiggle room. If They had started the season with Cairo, Green and Crosby as starters and then lost other key players, I might buy it.
    But they had wiggle room and as it turned out, they needed it.
    It’s not like Alex Gonzalez, Coco Crisp, Trot Nixon and Jason Varitek have been tearing it up. And they WERE opening day regulars. While Nixon and Varitek might be a surprise, there were opening day questions about Gonzalez, Lowell, Crisp and Youkilis.
    So, again, in the wiggle room department, the Yankees had a lot more than the Red Sox.
    So, in an effort at levity since its clear we won’t agree, I offer this:
    If either of our teams was in the NL, they would be already have clinch the division. All of them in fact. The entire NL would have just conceded.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 27, 2006, 12:45 pm
  • Sad but true, Bill. Which means NL has another 4 game sweep in the WS this year.

    yankeemonkey July 27, 2006, 12:47 pm
  • *sweep to look forward to….
    Preview is your friend..

    yankeemonkey July 27, 2006, 12:48 pm
  • OK, then. So if it WAS a fiasco, what were his options? Or maybe i’m misinterpreeting your use of the word “Fiasco.”
    My read on it is that you’re suggesting it was preventable.
    I’m not sure it was preventable, given the alleged Farnsworth injury, the available bodies and the need to keep fresh arms for the stretch run.
    And quit the Schill hating.
    If he pitched for the Yanks, you’d love him.
    Just because he likes to talk. When is he wrong? WHEN?
    .

    I'm Bill McNeal July 27, 2006, 12:49 pm
  • What annoys me is that some Yankee fans, not the fans here, are already building up their excuse if they don’t win the division this year, to some how make it less valid because of the injuries.
    Injuries and players not performing are part of the game.

    LocklandSF July 27, 2006, 12:57 pm
  • Maybe fiasco isn’t the best word, does “a complete and utter disaster” sound better?
    Saying quit Schill hating to Yankee fans is like saying stop hating ARod to Sox fans. Ain’t gonna happen. Yeah, we’d love him if he were a Yankee. The point is, he’s not. And it’s not a matter of him being wrong or right…it’s about him being a total media whore. Has he ever met a mic he didn’t like? And anyway, horse’s ass is something an anonymous teammate called him, as I recall.

    yankeemonkey July 27, 2006, 1:01 pm
  • Hey Mr. Bill, telling a Yankfan to quit hating Schill is like telling a Soxfan to quit hating on Arod. It’s not happening dude, get real. (By the way I don’t hate Schill, I just hate w/every fiber of my being that filthy uniform he wears.)

    bloodyank78 July 27, 2006, 1:03 pm
  • BY78: Great minds….
    Lockland: Excuses of any kind are stupid. If you fail, you fail. But I don’t know many YFs who are looking for excuses…

    yankeemonkey July 27, 2006, 1:06 pm
  • Media whore, interesting term to use when the original media whore of all media whore’s JD. Never met a quote.
    Personally I think that maybe they both should have a “quote off.”

    Rob July 27, 2006, 1:07 pm
  • Ding! Ding! Another round in the Great Injury Brouhaha!

    airk July 27, 2006, 1:08 pm
  • Oh, I totally agree about JD. But see, he’s now our media whore!
    Schilling/JD quote off would make for must-see TV. Hell, I’d pay to watch that.

    yankeemonkey July 27, 2006, 1:11 pm
  • Yes YM…there seems to be a “quota system” for media whores. Annual Training is a requirement. Look at ole Carlasaurus. He must have failed to qualify this year.

    Rob July 27, 2006, 1:12 pm
  • Lockland and Bill: you can’t have it every which way. We’ve been fairly critical on this site of the Yankee’s failure to put together a decent bench at the beginning of the season; doing so would have insulated them from some of the problems they’ve experienced with the onslought of injuries. And yes, injuries are part of the game. How a team copes with injuries goes a long way to determining where they will fall at the end of the season. Nevertheless, what you call “making excuses” is for the rest of us simply reasonable analysis. There’s no team that would be capable of losing 2/3rds of its outfield (and with it a sizable chunk of its offense) without a severe effect, the Yankees included. The Yanks have seen the durable (Matsui, Cano) and risk prone (Sheff, Pavano) go down for extended periods. Again, add up the win shares they’ve had riding the DL, and the number you’re going to find will be pretty well staggering. That’s just a reality, and it doesn’t have anything to do with excuses or what’s been happening on the Red Sox.

    YF July 27, 2006, 1:13 pm
  • Bill,
    I am in no way suggesting it was preventable
    Joe’s options were very limited, hence the overuse of somewhat reliable relievers. He rolled the dice, wanting to gain a game in the standings I view the pitching performance as a fiasco.
    Pre-season, I read an article on BDD ( I think it was from the Globe) that boldly stated the sox had the deepest pitching staff in the AL. True or not, you’re conveniently ignoring the fact that pitching-wise, YOU have more wiggle room: plenty of young arms to fill in with…

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 1:15 pm
  • Mo..We have had more wiggle room in pitching I agree. The factors riding that issue is two fold:
    (1) Yanks have gutted thier farm system quicker than Ole Saddam did the Iraqi bank system.
    (2) We will use the young arms to see how they perform. Torre does not like to use young unproven arms that often. I know he has used Small/Wang and some others.

    Rob July 27, 2006, 1:20 pm
  • What YF said. On the trade rumor front, what does everyone think of Proctor to the ATL for Betemit? If that happens, what’s the deal w/AP at first? I don’t like the gist of this move at all.

    bloodyank78 July 27, 2006, 1:20 pm
  • Do to some unforeseen issues (al la Yanks) we have had to use ouryounger arms. We just have two bozo’s in the pen we use when we decide the game is not winnable (Orc and Meatnez)

    Rob July 27, 2006, 1:21 pm
  • That would not be a smart trade. AP is the type of player the Yanks need that remind me of the O’Niell’s and other “gut” players from the champ runs in the 90’s.

    Rob July 27, 2006, 1:23 pm
  • Regardless, the better team will win the division, injuries or not.
    You guys don’t do it much, but the tone of a lot of these arguments seems to be that had these injuries not happened, the Yankees would have a 6+ game lead in the East, and there is no way to know that, you can speculate all you want, but it’s not a fact.
    Also, it’s impossible to know what other teams would have done had they lost 2/3 of their outfield, a young unkonwn might shine, a trade could happen, etc…

    LocklandSF July 27, 2006, 1:23 pm
  • I honestly think that the injuries this year to both teams have been beneficial. The Red Sox have learned that they have a number of great pitching prospects for the next few years.
    The Yanks have learned that they do have some positional players that can win ball games for them and that they do not have to go out and sign overpaid underachievers anymore. (More of the Brown/Pavano signings)..definately not the whole team.

    Rob July 27, 2006, 1:25 pm
  • Lockland, take Manny and Nixon/Crisp out of the Sox outfield. What do you get? Things might happen, but it probably wouldn’t be pretty in the interim.
    Regarding the Betemit trade…I don’t know. Proctor may not be the greatest, but he’s been mostly solid. I don’t see them dealing that for a utility IF…unless they turn around and flip Betemit to someone for a reliever. If not, what’s left in the ‘pen? Betemit won’t help if the bullpen is giving up runs by the handful.

    yankeemonkey July 27, 2006, 1:28 pm
  • 2 more things:
    Can’t stop the Schilling hating – I despise all egomaniacal, self serving, big mouthed right wing jack asses. At this point, with his status as the most hated of the hated in NY, there’s no way George would ever sign him. It’s just like it was with Pedro.
    Secondly, injuries are a part of the game. All true fans know this – no one is making any preemptive excuses…

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 1:30 pm
  • I don’t think anyone will win/lose this injury debate. And so it goes …
    Stepping out for a sec, this whole post is entertaining as hell. What did I do with my free time before I found this site?
    Red Sox fans, well, I at least, hate Pay-Rod because he wooed us during the trade negotiations, then spit all over us when he went to NY. There’s your disengenuousness.
    I don’t hate him for anything else except his dirtbag agent. I don’t even hate him for the slap.
    I think the fans who boo him are idiots.
    Boo the cheaters. Boo Bonds and Giambi.
    And speaking of cheaters, that Floyd Landis story is killing me.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 27, 2006, 1:30 pm
  • YM – True, but that hasn’t happened. Again, I just don’t like the excuse building and speculation about what might have been.
    I mean, Arod isn’t injured, and he’s got almost the same numbers as AGon with 4 times the errors.

    Anonymous July 27, 2006, 1:32 pm
  • Again, I want to point out it’s not really you guys doing this, at least not the excuse building, it’s more the “bad” fans, which we both have.

    LocklandSF July 27, 2006, 1:33 pm
  • ARod and AGon numbers are somewhat more apart offensively. Especially the HR and RBI issues. Defensive numbers are definately in AGon’s favor.
    Not sure on the BA numbers.

    Rob July 27, 2006, 1:34 pm
  • Bill,
    You’re forgetting that “Pay-rod” was willing to restructure his contract
    ( accept less money) to come to Boston. That ass Lucchino tried to hardball Texas and the deal fell apart…
    He wanted out of Texas. This is obvious because the guy switched positions to come to NY. He didn’t spit all over you; your front office did.

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 1:37 pm
  • re: Bullpen fiasco. How is that not Torre’s fault? I’m a Sox fan, think a lot of the guy, he’s a class act, even if a few of his players aren’t. Sure he didn’t pitch that inning, Proctor did, but after 64 innings already (with two more months to go!), what could Torre have expected? As far as Farnsworth is concerned, his back has been a problem all season. As a manager, he’s got to have a backup plan that doesn’t involve Proctor, who’s already pitched nearly a season’s worth of innings. Some of the other teams with three RPs in the top 25 in appearances are WSH (if you include Majewski), CHC, and PIT. Is anyone lobbying for Robinson, Baker, or Tracy to be Manager of the Year? Or, are the fans of those teams (assuming any are left in Pittsburgh), blaming the manager for poor bullpen usage? Aren’t Baker and Tracy and Robinson’s jobs all but secure? What’s the over/under on when Salomon Torre’s arm falling off? Sure, we’ve seen some of that second-guessing here as well. Francona or Torre might deserve consideration for simply dealing with injuries with eqaunimity but barring a complete implosion the rest of the year, it’ll be Jim Leyland or nobody.

    Quo July 27, 2006, 1:43 pm
  • Yes ARod was willing to restructure his deal. When MLB and the Players Association decided he couldn’t do that is when Lucchino wanted more out of Texas.

    Rob July 27, 2006, 1:44 pm
  • Mo, I didn’t forget that. It’s just not relevant to this arguement.
    Just like it’s irrelevant that what brought him to NY in the end was Aaron Boone’s freak injury.
    What I hate most of all is players and agents orchestrating trades after they sign contracts. That’s the real crap.
    Dude, it was your bad judgment that got you stuck in Texas to begin with. You signed the contract. You live with it.
    In the end, I think the Red Sox were better without him. Do you think the Yankees would have been better without him?

    I'm Bill McNeal July 27, 2006, 1:44 pm
  • AGON: .320 OBP, .413 SLG, .276 AVG, 4 E
    AROD: .383 OBP, .505 SLG, .280 AVG, 18 E
    Sorry, I just think that’s the highest of high comedy.
    However, count me as one Sox fan that knows this isn’t going to last and Arod will very soon start to be Arod again.

    LocklandSF July 27, 2006, 1:48 pm
  • I can’t agree with Bill here, I think any team is better with Arod than without him, I still hate him though.

    LocklandSF July 27, 2006, 1:52 pm
  • Bill,
    Without Arod’s 130 rbi and very solid defense last year, the yanks wouldn’t have won the division, maybe would have missed the playoffs; so, no, I don’t think they would have been better off without him.
    I don’t understand how you can say he ” spit all over” you by going to the yankees. Sounds like you believe anyone who negotiates with the sox is morally bound from signing with the yanks later?
    One more thing: when A Rod signed with Texas, John Hart promised that he would build a contending team around him – didn’t happen, so I can’t blame the guy for wanting to play with a winner.

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 1:57 pm
  • Funny how this thread goes from discussing Joe’s managerial merits to whether Yank or Sox injuries are worse to hating Schilling/ARod. I love these discussions!

    yankeemonkey July 27, 2006, 2:08 pm
  • At the time of the injuries to Sheffield and Matsui, New York was leading or near the top of every major team offensive statistic. Since that time, they have slid in significantly in HR rank (and consequently, slugging) but run production is still near the top. I attribute that ability to maintain run production to Torre.

    attackgerbil July 27, 2006, 2:20 pm
  • Had to chime in on this gem:
    “At this point, with his status as the most hated of the hated in NY, there’s no way George would ever sign him. It’s just like it was with Pedro.”
    Bull. Shit. On both counts. Cashman would sign Schill in .3 seconds, which is about .2 seconds slower than he would’ve signed Pedro. That’s like saying the Sox would never sign Jeter. Hatred of the hated is (mostly) limited to the respective fan bases.
    “ARod and AGon numbers are somewhat more apart offensively. Especially the HR and RBI issues. Defensive numbers are definately in AGon’s favor.”
    True. It’s just funny to compare the reigning MVP and Bathroom Break. You want a better representation of performance, compare Lowell and Slappy’s #s…

    Mayday Malone July 27, 2006, 2:22 pm
  • Schilling is on record saying that he would not ever play for NY after playing for Boston. Many things are said about Curt Schilling. I don’t think anyone would ever call him a liar.

    attackgerbil July 27, 2006, 2:30 pm
  • “Schilling is on record saying that he would not ever play for NY after playing for Boston.”
    I saw that- in this very space even. My point is that there is no way that, if Schill were a free agent and didn’t have a burning hatred of all things yanker, Cash wouldn’t be tripping over his tongue to sign him.

    Mayday Malone July 27, 2006, 2:48 pm
  • Lunch break. I’m back.
    Hicks said he would build around him. OK, and build with what? Pay-Rod was getting all the money.
    Since Pay-Rod signed with NY, the Red Sox have won 1 WS, and the Yanks none.
    That’s why I say Boston is better without him. That $25 million annually cripples your flexibility. Even a team with a fat wallet like NY.
    So if the Yanks didn’t have him, maybe they have better balance elsewhere. That’s my point.
    You will never, ever catch me suggesting that’s he’s not a great player. But that salary has limited them in other areas. That same thing applies to Manny.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 27, 2006, 2:49 pm
  • “Bull. Shit. On both counts. Cashman would sign Schill in .3 seconds, which is about .2 seconds slower than he would’ve signed Pedro”
    So, why did the yanks make no real attempt to sign Pedro after’04? They certainly had the money. He would have been a much better investment than Pavano, in both durability and ability. From a business perspective, it makes more sense to have your most hated enemies in someone else’s uniform -keeps people coming to the park and interested in the pennant races. Nothing is more attractive than the chance to kick your enemies’ ass.
    In all fairness, to get a better perspective, you might want to compare Lowell and ARod’s numbers over the last five years, to smooth out any blips…

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 2:53 pm
  • And yankeemoney, I don’t think there’s much debating Torre’s managing abilities. He knows what he’s doing. So does Tito.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 27, 2006, 2:53 pm
  • Mo, the Yankees didn’t sign Pedro after ’04 for the same reason the Red Sox didn’t.
    1. He wanted out of the AL East.
    2. The Mets offered 4 years. Pedro didn’t have four years left in him.
    3. It is possible (doubtful, but possible) that Pedro told the Yankees he wasn’t interested.
    I think it was a wise move at the time both by Cash and Theo. Who knew Pavano and Clement was be such tremendous busts?

    I'm Bill McNeal July 27, 2006, 2:59 pm
  • “So, why did the yanks make no real attempt to sign Pedro after’04?”
    Good question, the answer to which I have as much of an idea as you do. I wasn’t tapping his agent’s phoneline, but I do remember this:
    http://proxy.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1924287

    Mayday Malone July 27, 2006, 3:00 pm
  • Bill, the rangers are still paying a sizeable amount of ARod’s salary, so I don’t think he has that much to do with monetary flexibility.
    The yanks would have better balance elsewhere if they didn’t have the nasty habit of raping their farm system.
    Honestly, I don’t understand the Pay Rod thing. Sure, he signed a ridiculous contract, but I don’t know anyone who responds to a contract offer with, “Gee, I’m not worth that much, why don’t you just offer me 20 percent less”, do you? Fault him for his performance if you want, but you can’t blame the guy for accepting that offer.

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 3:03 pm
  • Mayday,
    Sorry, I don’t want to subscribe, but I think I get the gist.
    Yes, George likes to take take players from the sox, but in this case, with the whole Zimmer episode fresh on everyone’s mind, I think he was just trying to drive up the price. “Take ’em away or make’em pay”

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 3:14 pm
  • Mo, I’m not sure that’s true about the Rangers and the contract. I’m not sure it’s not true, either. And I don’t know that it matters.
    Yes, they do keep raping their farm system.
    And maybe you can’t argue with him for taking it, but he did sign it. And he should have known that one player taking that kind of money would limit a team’s payroll flexibility.
    My problem is that AFTER he signed it, he begged out. Whatever happened to honoring your contract? I dislike anyone who does that.
    And you know, nobody held a gun to his head and told him he had to do it.
    It’s micro vs. macro. He was looking at the little picture, not the big picture.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 27, 2006, 3:14 pm
  • BTW, Torre is a very good manager.
    Carry on.

    LocklandSF July 27, 2006, 3:18 pm
  • Bill,
    It was all over the NY papers about how good of a deal the yanks got, with texas paying a large portion of the contract.
    In the corporate world (that baseball has become), people don’t put the companies’ interests above their own. It just doesn’t happen.
    You feel the same way about Manny? He asked out of Boston on several occasions – yet I haven’t heard anyone call him “Money” Ramirez and his contract approaches Alex’s

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 3:25 pm
  • Texas pays about 10mm of his annual and the Yankees pay the other 15mm, if memory serves me correct.

    LocklandSF July 27, 2006, 3:26 pm
  • “BTW, Torre is a very good manager.”
    LocklandSF,
    I think that is generally accepted, or otherwise we might be able to stay on topic.

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 3:27 pm
  • I think we can all agree that 10mm is a sizeable portion?

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 3:28 pm
  • Thanks for the details on the contract. I was not aware. And I’m sure that helps one of the other arguements I started earlier.
    The Manny arguement is not the same. He wanted out for different reasons, not because a contract he signed crippled a team’s ability to be competitive. Besides, he’s Manny. Nobody really knows what’s going on.
    So you agree that Pay-Rod put his own monetary interests first. OK, cool. Then why can’t he ignore the hate that’s gotten into his head and just play ball?

    I'm Bill McNeal July 27, 2006, 3:38 pm
  • You know, we’re all rationalizing in defense of our own teams. This is going nowhere fast.
    I won’t convince you and you won’t convince me.
    I have other things to get to.
    So, God Bless the Planet of Baseball that unites us geeks in this blog.
    I love you all, and I’ll check back later.
    Be safe.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 27, 2006, 3:41 pm
  • This is what happens when our lovable losers have a day off.
    Next topic of conversation: should Sheffield become a free agent in the offseason, do you SFs see him/want him in a Boston uniform? Do you see the Sox FO going after him at all?

    yankeemonkey July 27, 2006, 3:48 pm
  • Bill, I have no problem with your arguments – athletes the world over are self-serving, money-hungry turncoats. There are very, very few players who genuinely love their clubs. And who can blame them? For them it’s a job. If a company came along and afford me better pay/work conditions/more chance at success would I take it? Of course.
    But, dude, please don’t use the “Manny being Manny” argument. That’s total BS.

    Sam July 27, 2006, 3:53 pm
  • I think ARod is a pretty good deal for ~$15 million per year (the part the Yanks pay). And he’s been showing signs of coming out of his slump.
    Torre is a good manager. He’s not a tactical genius, no. But even so there is so much (apparent) tactical stupidity out there amongst MLB managers that he doesn’t really look at that bad to me by comparison. And his other talents are clearly useful.

    Rob (Middletown, CT) July 27, 2006, 4:12 pm
  • I would rather have Barry Bonds in a Red Sox uni than Sheffield, seriously.
    I don’t think it’s an issue though, I doubt very highly that the Sox would go after him.

    LocklandSF July 27, 2006, 4:59 pm
  • Can’t see the Sox going after Sheffield. He’ll demand the same per year as Carlos Lee will ultimately get, and is what, 6-7 years older? Neither of them fantastic defensively, though only one of them has severe personality issues…
    That being said, have to disagree with Lockland, I’d rather see Sheff in a Sox uniform than Bonds. Bonds CANNOT run or play the outfield anymore whatsoever. If Bonds is in a Sox uniform, then we would have a $10M plus DH who’s not as good as David Ortiz is now. …what would be the point?

    Quo July 27, 2006, 5:08 pm
  • OK. I was just curious….There’s a sentiment among some YFs that if Yanks don’t pick up Sheff’s option he’ll sign with Boston…out of spite or something. I don’t see that happening but wanted to see what SFs thought.

    yankeemonkey July 27, 2006, 5:27 pm
  • LocklandSF, As a yanks fan, I would like NOTHING more than seeing Bonds in a Red Sox uniform! Please God, let it happen!!!!

    MoForPresident July 27, 2006, 5:27 pm
  • Lockland, are you out of your mind? Why would you taint Red Sox uni with Bond?

    Cape Codder July 27, 2006, 6:05 pm
  • YM – I echo the feeling that Theo wouldn’t touch Sheff. Don’t know why, but he just doesn’t seem to be the sort of player Boston goes for – old, expensive, defensively suspect, and an attitude problem. Those traits are Yankee specialities!

    Sam July 27, 2006, 6:26 pm
  • Late comer, cuz unlike some of you, apparently, I actually had to work tonight. But a couple thoughts:
    I understand that YFs will hate on Schilling just like we hate on A-Rod. But, at least speaking for myself, most of my hating on A-Rod is fairly good natured (The Slap aside) because we all know I’d want him on the Sox in a second. A lot of the comments from YFs about Schilling are pretty mean, and not only that, uninformed and unfair. That bothers me a lot. Let’s just say I don’t hear A-Rod haters here calling him “horse’s ass,” regardless of whose quote that was taken from.
    We can argue ’til we’re blue about which team has had it worse on the injury front, but it’s a pretty tired statement to say “The Yankees are doing pretty well to be just 1.5 games out!” Really? When the first place team has had essentially two starting pitchers of any respectable quality for the last two weeks? I don’t buy it. Both teams are doing quite well in spite of their injuries, regardless of whosever’s is worse. And Schilling was dead-on accurate when he said before this season that the AL East winner would be the healthiest.
    I would lose a lot of my love for the Red Sox if we signed any of the Big Three Cheaters — Sheffield, Giambi and Bonds. I’m sure there are players I’ve liked who took steroids while with the Red Sox, but to knowingly take on people who have admitted using steroids (of course, with Bonds and Sheffield, we know it was just an accident) is not cool with me.

    Paul SF July 27, 2006, 7:05 pm
  • Oh God…the Cards/Cubs game on ESPN tonight – the commenting crew is Berman and Morgan. It’s like the perfect storm of suck. Yeesh.

    yankeemonkey July 27, 2006, 8:04 pm
  • I didn’t mean to use the Manny Being Manny arguement, but I guess I did. So sorry. Please understand that Manny gets a lot of love in my house. My 4-yr-old son adores him. We live in the Chicago area and he’s been begging us all summer to take him to Boston so he can watch Manny homer. And I am enamoured with his savant-like hitting. I have never seen anything like him. He’s a hitting freak. What I wouldn’t give to watch a game with Teddy commenting on every pitch Manny sees.
    Would the Sox sign Sheff? No. No way. Switch uniforms and Cash wouldn’t either. Most of this stuff is generated from George. The Sox are looking to the farm: Murphy and Ellsbury before Sheff. That’s not to suggest they wouldn’t be missing out on something. But in the risk/reward dept., I don’t see it. He’ll cost too much.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 28, 2006, 1:44 am
  • Speaking of ESPN, I learned today that they have a bicycling analyst. Here I am, bumming on the Floyd Landis story, because that Alpine ride was just so incredible, then I hear the phrase “ESPN bicycling analyst … ” and I’m stopped cold. ESPN has a bicycling analyst?? Why?????
    Really, though. Floyd is a Mennonite. Something has to be wrong with the test. I just can’t believe a Mennonite would cheat.
    Say it isn’t so.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 28, 2006, 1:50 am
  • Good point about Cashman, Bill. He didn’t want to sign Sheff, either – he wanted Vlad. Only George was dumb enough to pick the guy who’s 7 years older with a track record of being an ass. And there’s no one in the Sox organization who is that kind of dumb.

    Sam July 28, 2006, 9:47 am

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