Misdirection and Propaganda

Whom to believe? No one.

The Minnesota Star-Tribune reports the Twins never received a "hard deadline" from the Yankees.

The Boston Globe says the Twins really like Justin Masterson.

ESPN.com and Baseball Prospectus both say the Twins may not trade Santana at all.

Don’t buy any of it.

258 comments… add one

  • im sick of the twins. Our teams along with the rest of baseball have other business to attend to. They need to make a decision based on the offers. Waiting for more days isnt gonna change what is being offered. If they dont like it, move along for now, revisit it again later once things have played out. I think the rookie GM is spinning his wheels…

    sam-YF December 3, 2007, 6:09 pm
  • I agree, Sam. I wonder if he is honestly torn by the proposals, doesn’t know which to pick and is hoping/praying someone makes it easy for him.
    For a while, it looked like the Twins were masterfully playing the sides against each other. But I think any of us could have gotten the Yankees to include Hughes and the Sox to include Ellsbury. Those were no-brainer decisions for both clubs. Now that the teams have dug in and said, “Make your choice,” the Twins seem to have no plan.

    Paul SF December 3, 2007, 6:15 pm
  • They really like Masterson, huh?
    Why is it that all the positive reports from the Twins side come down on the Sox players? They really like Ellsbury, even over Hughes. Now they really like Masterson. How does that gain them any leverage with the Sox at all? If anything, it would make the Sox MORE reluctant to part with these guys. Why trump up their value if you want them?
    Either Bill Smith is a huge idiot, or he’s trying to squeeze more out of the Yankees. Either way, they shouldn’t (and most likely won’t) buy it. Their other top prospects can and should be used for guys like Huston Street. Huston Street, the young 24-year old closer from Oakland. Who would immediately fill a much-needed setup role for the Yankees. GET HIM!

    Anonymous December 3, 2007, 6:16 pm
  • ugh, Typepad. ^me

    Andrew December 3, 2007, 6:21 pm
  • I honestly wonder if they were prepared to keep Santana all along, unless they were blown away by an offer. And the demands could have been for exactly that. The Young trade was made to replace the offense lost with Hunter. They’re thinking: Blow us away or we’ll contend, then take the draft picks.
    You could argue that Hughes and Melky are equal to two picks (though they’d have to pay the bonuses). Same deal with Ellsbury and Lowrie.
    We’ll find out soon enough. I hope!

    Mike YF December 3, 2007, 6:23 pm
  • Quit holding my attention hostage, you bastards!

    Devine December 3, 2007, 6:26 pm
  • I hate this – it’s not a trade negotiation, it’s a stickup…
    …And after the robbery, the victim, has to fork out 25M a year for 6 or more years to that most fragile of humans – a starting pitcher…
    THIS SUCKS

    Andrews December 3, 2007, 6:36 pm
  • well, it’s still about who blinks first…the yanks have said they want to move on and the twins should make up their mind…seems like a reasonable request…the risk is that the sox then emerge as the only visible trading partner…playing the sox and yanks against each other?, well, the twins have milked this cow dry…if they are serious about trading santana, they should make their demands clear, assuming neither the sox or yanks “final” offers are acceptable, and get it over with…i give hank credit for being the first to express his displeasure with the twins bs…

    dc December 3, 2007, 6:44 pm
  • Picks are not as valuable to the Twins as they are to teams like the Yankees or the Red Sox. They almost never go ‘above-slot’, or really take appropriate risks. They’re a cost-conscious team through and through, and as a result they are mediocre. Plus, Hughes is the top pitching prospect in the game. You’d be very lucky to get a first round pick that’s not maybe in the top 5, and end up with that. Plus, add in the fact that Santana and Nathan could sign with a team that performed badly in 2008, and you get only sandwich picks and their second round. And if they sign with the same team, you only get one set of picks.
    Hughes and Melky are worth far, far more than draft picks.

    Andrew December 3, 2007, 6:48 pm
  • “im sick of the twins. Our teams along with the rest of baseball have other business to attend to.”
    Amen Sam. We need to take a long hard look at the bullpen. As well as addressing the possible hole in CF. I like Johhny Damon, but I would much rather have someone else patrolling CF next season if we do lose Melky. I know here come the numbers on how good Johnny Damon is in CF and that he hasn’t declined, bla bla bla. You have invested ALL this money in the team, assuming the Santana trade ever happens, to settle for Damon’s defense in CF. Same could be said for a subpar bullpen. If the Yankees land Santana this will be a different $200+M Yankee team then in the past. They would actually have (on paper) the best offense and top 5 staffs in the game. Santana is not Kevin Brown or Unit, he legitamizes all the other spending and puts the team in another level. Unlike the additions in the past. Long story short, don’t be cheap now you spent, keep spending and make this team complete.

    John - YF December 3, 2007, 6:52 pm
  • Never mind that the Sox would really like to be able to shop Coco Crisp at the meetings, but first need to know whether they can, and they can’t now that until they find out whether Jacoby Ellsbury can net Johan Santana… Please, let it end tonight.
    Then the Dan Haren rumors can start! *gag*

    Paul SF December 3, 2007, 7:27 pm
  • I thought you young guys loved the hot stove!
    No patience, I say. Kids today…
    ;-)

    SF December 3, 2007, 7:33 pm
  • If Im the Sox, starting Tuesday morning, I pull Ellsbury fromt he offer and offer ‘only’ Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson (yes Masterson). If the Yankees ARE stepping back from the table, this’ll win out anyway.. if not, I still think it has a decent chance of trumping Hughes+Melky+Crap (which is what teh Yanks say they are offering).
    Frankly I dont expect the Yanks to completely pull away if a deal isnt reached, but I *DO* expect them to yank Hughes off the table and the Sox shoudl follow suit with Jacoby.
    As everyone else has said, the Twins are really pissing me off. Get this over with already!

    Dionysus December 3, 2007, 7:37 pm
  • the third layer in the yankees trade is not “crap”, the players being talked about are still decent prospects just not the very best ones.

    sam-YF December 3, 2007, 7:48 pm
  • Rumor has ot the White Sox want Coco.

    John - YF December 3, 2007, 7:57 pm
  • He could net Mackowiack, maybe. The White Sox are AWFUL.

    AndrewYF December 3, 2007, 8:25 pm
  • Enough of this baseball stuff, it’s time to watch the Pats!

    SF December 3, 2007, 8:27 pm
  • F the Pats.

    Andrew December 3, 2007, 10:18 pm
  • Gaaaaargh. I get back and the only news is…there is no news?!
    C’mon front office people, this is killing us. Get this done…or not done…so we can all move on with our lives!!!

    yankeemonkey December 3, 2007, 10:23 pm
  • Yeah, that’s right. Go Ravens. I do not want to hear about the Patriots for the next 10 years. I await the game where the Colts oust the Patriots from the postseason.

    Andrew December 3, 2007, 10:28 pm
  • “Yeah, that’s right. Go Ravens. I do not want to hear about the Patriots for the next 10 years. I await the game where the Colts oust the Patriots from the postseason.”
    could you imagine if the Pats won 26 superbowls and you had to listen to their fans brag about it like a personal accomplishment?

    Ric December 3, 2007, 10:50 pm
  • Kepner:
    “The Yankees and the Twins had not met as of 7:30 p.m., and it was obvious that the Twins were not eager to accept the Yankees’ offer of Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and a midlevel prospect. Privately, the Yankees have interpreted the Twins’ nonresponse as a rejection of the offer and a signal that Minnesota intends to keep Santana.”
    http://tinyurl.com/2uw22h
    Matthew Cerrone/MetsBlog:
    “…the word from Nashville, from a few different corners, suggests that the Twins are once again contacting teams, other than the Yankees and Red Sox, to discuss offers for Johan Santana…
    …it is sounding to me like a trade with either boston or the bronx may have been close, and ready to be announced tonight, but now it temporarily is off the table…
    …additionally, from what i can gather, santana would rather play for the Red Sox, followed by the Mets, then the Yankees …”
    Not sure how reliable Cerrone is — or, for that matter, who he is. But he seems to be in Nashville, which is at least one step ahead of us. :-P

    Paul SF December 3, 2007, 10:58 pm
  • Forgot the link to MetsBlog: http://tinyurl.com/2ty7pl

    Paul SF December 3, 2007, 11:00 pm
  • My family lives in Nashville, maybe I should dispatch my dad to Opryland to investigate on location…

    yankeemonkey December 3, 2007, 11:03 pm
  • who the hell is Cerrone?

    sam-YF December 3, 2007, 11:07 pm
  • Abraham said at 10:14 that the Twins and Yankees were meeting tonight, so one of them is mistaken. I think I’ll guess Cerrone.

    Andrew December 3, 2007, 11:10 pm
  • Me too. I simply don’t believe the Twins will snub the best offers they will ever get for Santana for the unlikely chance they can compete in 2008.

    Paul SF December 3, 2007, 11:18 pm
  • im sure matthew cerrone has the info on Johan Santana’s preferences as far as who he wants to play for since he has so many connections within Johan’s inner circle. id be surprised if johan even has made a list like this for himself.

    sam-YF December 3, 2007, 11:18 pm
  • Stark:
    “the Twins and Yankees were getting nowhere Monday night in their attempt to complete a deal for Johan Santana. So the Yankees were again making noises that they might pull out of the Santana talks for good.
    According to baseball officials who were aware of the talks, the Twins again asked the Yankees on Monday night for pitcher Ian Kennedy — a pitcher the Yankees have insisted for several days that they wouldn’t trade — as the third player in their proposed deal. The Yankees apparently turned down that proposal immediately.”
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3140498
    I still don’t believe it, but bully for the Red Sox if the Yankees do pull out.

    Paul SF December 3, 2007, 11:23 pm
  • i dont think the yankees pulling out means the Twins take whatever the sox will offer. If they are so stubborn on these extra players with the yanks, Id think they would be the same for the Sox, demanding an extra player too.

    sam-YF December 3, 2007, 11:26 pm
  • “could you imagine if the Pats won 26 superbowls and you had to listen to their fans brag about it like a personal accomplishment?”
    or even worse, if your great-grandkids had to listen to tales of their storied history?

    Tyrel SF December 3, 2007, 11:28 pm
  • I agree, Sam, but the Red Sox win in any situation that does not involve the Yankees getting Johan Santana (unless the Yankees give up Hughes and Kennedy for him).

    Paul SF December 3, 2007, 11:36 pm
  • Man, the Ravens really just handed it to them on a silver platter. What a disgraceful sports city.

    Andrew December 3, 2007, 11:38 pm
  • I agree with that too. Im interested to see if the Twins overplayed their hand.

    sam-YF December 3, 2007, 11:38 pm
  • I don’t know why it took me so long to make the connection, but I was just in Nashville last week! Even went to Opry Mills Mall, right across the street from the Opryland Hotel (which is just enormous, btw. It has its own river — with tour boats — inside).
    Should have gone this week to see my parents. Maybe I can send my dad out and get some scoops, too…

    Paul SF December 3, 2007, 11:46 pm
  • Going to Opryland Hotel was a very strange experience….There was this weird woman on stilts who was dressed up like a tree, who’d stand still for a while, then start doing slo-mo gymnastics, then freeze again. Weird.
    The Country Christmas was neat, though.

    yankeemonkey December 3, 2007, 11:57 pm
  • Jacoby Ellsbury’s new agent?
    Scott Boras. Greeeaaaaat…

    Paul SF December 3, 2007, 11:59 pm
  • It’s 12am – do you know where your Santana is?

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 12:02 am
  • The deadline has expired.
    Taking the Yankees at their word, I guess that means they won’t be trading for him. ;-)

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:08 am
  • Incidentally, I love the headlines on the Google News feed:
    “Red Sox remain mum on Santana”
    “Yankees mum on Santana details”

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:10 am
  • yeah i noticed that too paul, hilarious. Lots of cheap champagne being drank down there…
    Also, this just in from the sox officials…
    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-winterdayone120307&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 12:12 am
  • Brown:
    “The Twins, meanwhile, appeared to treat the Yankees deadline with something between irritation and bemusement, while continuing to shop Santana to the likes of the Boston Red Sox, New York Mets, Los Angeles Dodgers, Seattle Mariners and, perhaps, the Detroit Tigers and Arizona Diamondbacks.
    The Yankees remained Santana’s most likely destination into the evening, because they have just enough disposable prospects to get him and all of the disposable income to carry the resulting contract extension.
    Said one general manager: “I don’t think Boston’s really for real in that.”
    Indeed, by late Monday night, a Red Sox official believed the Yankees and Twins were “very close” to completing the trade.”
    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-winterdayone120307&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:13 am
  • Ha, you beat me, Sam!
    Of course, I can think of plenty of motivations for a Sox official to say that — and not necessarily mean it, hehe.
    I really thought the deal would be done well before now, one way or the other.
    And since we’re tossing around wild speculation, the MLB Trade Rumors guy says he has a source that says the meeting between the Twins and Yanks ended in a standoff. Not sure whether he was being facetious…

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:15 am
  • Yanks make a trade!!!!
    http://tinyurl.com/ypgsmp

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 12:18 am
  • Wait.. what? NOt cool YM. Not cool.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 12:21 am
  • Oh I scroleld down enough now. They did make a trade.. of sorts.
    *punches YM anyway*

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 12:23 am
  • Had to be done, Dio!
    ;-D

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 12:23 am
  • Sick trade for the yankees there. Im sure the SFs out there are trembling in their boots.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 12:25 am
  • Albaladejo’s ERA is much better than Papelbon’s. I think this was a steal.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 12:26 am
  • Ok.. Im giving this 30 more minutes then I’m assuming it aint happening. Here’s to Theo IMMEDIATLY withdrawing Jacoby and sticking to Lester ONLY. I would howver offer Masterson instead of Bowden, since the Twins do what him more. If the Yanks ARE out of it, it’ll be the best teh Twins get.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 12:27 am
  • Your MOM’s ERA is much better than Papelbons!
    Wait.. thats not as insulting as I had thought… dammit.. hold on… lemme start over… hmmm…

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 12:28 am
  • If the yanks are out of it and then the sox drop their offer, the yanks will come right back in. Its the walk out, standard negotiation tactic, I used it many times to buy counterfit crap when i was in china.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 12:30 am
  • The New York writers must be chasing the meeting story. Nary a word on the blogs from the Times, Post, Daily News, Newsday.
    Pete Abe comes through with a post saying:
    “No update in Nashville, although it’s now Tuesday and Hank Steinbrenner’s deadline has come and gone.
    The Twins have pushed for Ian Kennedy as the third man in and were turned down. The Red Sox seem content only to hang around to make sure the Yankees pay a hefty price. If there is a third team (the Mariners? the Angels?) they haven’t made themselves known.”
    I think this meme about the Sox just being in it to drive up the price is a bit too overused and convenient. The Yankees have drawn the line at including two of their yop three prospects but are presumed to really want Santana. Why shouldn’t the Red Sox do the same and also really want Santana?

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:30 am
  • I thought the Yankee Clippard was a serious contender for the Yanks rotation? Or trade bait for Santana? Or maybe I’m just baiting here…
    Anyway, yeah. I was out in the Opryland area today. Didn’t get to the Hotel though.

    QuoSF December 4, 2007, 12:31 am
  • Paul its not just the reporters though. Lots of other officials have said they believe the same thing is going on. But generally, I think its hard to believe that the sox arent actually interested in trading for Johan. I hope we never know for sure.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 12:32 am
  • The Herald says the Sox were linked with Bedard more and more throughout the day. Not buying that one either though… Not with what the O’s want.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:32 am
  • I saw something Sunday or early Monday that said the Mariners were out of it.

    TJ December 4, 2007, 12:32 am
  • Meh, lots of “officials” thought the Sox were just bidding high for Daisuke to keep him away from the Yankees, too.
    Steve Phillips used to be an official. Dusty Baker, too (and he is again). Being closer doesn’t necessarily make you smarter…

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:34 am
  • like i said Paul, im not buying it either.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 12:37 am
  • Oh, good point made on SOSH:
    Nashville is Central time. Still 25 minutes left out here in the heartland. :-)
    Stark:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3140498
    “Shortly before midnight, a Yankees official told AP that no deal was imminent and New York thought Minnesota would hold onto Santana for now. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the Yankees didn’t make any public statements.”
    We haven’t heard from the Red Sox in a VERY long time. Almost all the leaks have been from the Twins or Yankees, and they’ve pretty much all been about the Yanks’ offer. Maybe the Sox just haven’t done anything since their last offer, but it seems sometimes that the less people talk, the more is going on…
    Or maybe I’m just thinking wishfully. :-)

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:38 am
  • The question is, Paul, in what time zone was the hot air from the windbag blowing?

    QuoSF December 4, 2007, 12:39 am
  • or maybe everyone is asleep but us.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 12:39 am
  • Cafardo also checks in with a “no word” from Nashville about the Twins-Yankees meeting, except for indications the Yanks refused to include Kennedy, etc.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:40 am
  • I dunno about that sam. I live very close to Nashville. It’s like a non-stop party out here.

    QuoSF December 4, 2007, 12:41 am
  • Silverman on the Herald’s blog:
    “NASHVILLE — The Yankees’ attempt to trade for Johan Santana could be reaching its final hour and there are plenty of recent signs that, just like the Ravens, the Yanks could fall short of their goal.”
    But he goes on to just quote the AP/Stark report at ESPN.com.
    “The Red Sox remain in the picture, although there are no current developments to report about any contact they have had with Minnesota here this evening.”

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:42 am
  • Whereabouts near Nashville do you live, Quo?

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:43 am
  • my refresh button just broke.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 12:43 am
  • lol, Sam, I’m getting frustrated at my laptop because the mouse buttons aren’t clicking fast enough…

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:44 am
  • The Seattle PI, in reporting the M’s are all but out of the sweepstakes:
    “There were rumblings early Monday that the Twins were leaning toward keeping Santana, who would become a free agent after 2008, but the latest word is that they’re far enough down the road that a trade is going to happen, almost certainly with the Red Sox or Yankees.”
    Big breaking news there…
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/342187_mari04.html

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:46 am
  • Franklin, about 20 miles south.

    QuoSF December 4, 2007, 12:46 am
  • I think my laptop is about to go on strike and/or explode. Or at least the Apple+R buttons…

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 12:47 am
  • UCant.. wait.. need.. news..
    urge to kill… rising

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 12:49 am
  • Oooh, you have a Mac, YM? What kind?
    Cool, Quo, my parents are in Old Hickory, just east.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:50 am
  • An iBook. It’s old but still chugging along…

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 12:51 am
  • *rewatches teh Sweeny Todd trailer to distract himself*

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 12:52 am
  • People still use PCs?!

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 12:53 am
  • The Star-Tribune and Pioneer Press blogs are worthless. No posts at the S-T since midday today, none in St. Paul since Nov. 30. That’s just criminal, if you ask me.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:53 am
  • My Mac Mini’s monitor is on the fritz so I’m using the wife’s PC laptop. I miss my Mac :-(

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:54 am
  • I think Twins fans are just more laid back. Its not like if we waited til the morning the news would change.
    Hey YM, you were the person who worked at Sloan right?

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 12:54 am
  • This is one fo the few times I actually use espn.com
    I’m also using the dreaded Yankee Den of Lohud, only because I KNOW Pete will update

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 12:54 am
  • Its not as big a deal fro the Twins fans, who are probably resigned to losing Johan. For us, its about one versus the other. Yansk vs Sox. As always

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 12:56 am
  • I think it was interesting that Pete said he couldnt get in touch with the yankees. That means they must be finalizing an agreement with twins right???
    Any more tea leaves you’d like me to read?

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 12:56 am
  • What Sam said. PCs? WTF?
    (Mac mini and powerbook g4 over here)

    QuoSF December 4, 2007, 12:56 am
  • Yep, Sam, that’s me.

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 12:56 am
  • SOunds liek the DID connnect at 1250, so if there was news Pete’d know it

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 12:57 am
  • The last five minutes: More proof that the smartest people in the world root for the Sox and Yankees.
    Of course we’re also staying up like it’s the end of the world to see if a baseball player gets traded or not, sooo…

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 12:57 am
  • what lab YM?

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 12:58 am
  • iBook g4…Buying myself a shiny MacBook Pro next spring, though.

    Anonymous December 4, 2007, 12:59 am
  • Sam: Eric Holland.
    Paul: not even funny. The last few days my productivity at work has been all shot to hell. Looks like more of the same tomorrow (today). Meh.

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 1:01 am
  • MacBook Pro 15″ over here. My old 12″ macbook died a month ago.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:01 am
  • Another reason to trade for Santana: His 184 OPS+ in 2007. Sick.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:02 am
  • YM I came pretty close to rotating in his lab. You guys do cool work. Im friends with Amanda.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:03 am
  • Well.. 1:01. Is that it?

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:04 am
  • I still have my old iMac I bought as a sophomore in college. Still works, except the fan broke and it works slower than Johan Santana trade news…

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:04 am
  • if they are still talking no its not it. if they arent, then thats it for now. The yankees are out until they are back in is my guess.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:05 am
  • Are we gonna be subject to a slew of “slower than Johan Santana talks” from now on? I bet they’ll be everywhere

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:06 am
  • Edes:
    “So, does the clock run out on the Twins to get something done with the Yanks? Steinbrenner insisted his deadline was real, but of course, there’s no reason to be imposing artificial deals.
    The Sox, meanwhile, may be content to let the Twins pass on their offer of Jacoby Ellsbury or Jon Lester but not both, as long as they know Santana isn’t going to New York.”
    Don’t know if he’s just speculating or subtly passing along information, but that sentence sounds like the Sox might be willing to up their offer if the Yanks were inclined to up theirs…

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:07 am
  • You know.. as much as, if Im a Sox fans I perfer Ells over Lester to stay on my team.. if I was a Twins guy I think I’d perfer the Lester Package as it address more issues overall.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:08 am
  • This whole affair would make a great case study for game theory fans.
    Sam: yeah, our lab is pretty neat. I’m almost done though – writing my dissertation now. Wheee! What will happen first: Santana news breaks or YM graduates? Oh the suspense…

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 1:09 am
  • I think the Twins are nuts to pass up Hughes. I realize I am biased but still this guy has been a top 3 pitching prospect for the last 2 years.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:09 am
  • True, but he looke dvery shaky last season Sam. Of course so did Lester, but Cancer is a far better excuse than hamstring.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:12 am
  • I am also mystified by the Twins’ (apparent) decision to value a prospect like Ellsbury over a prospect like Hughes. I guess they figure they have plenty of young pitching, but do you ever really have enough?

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:15 am
  • My internet is on the fritz. Everyone logging on at once for Santana updates? Guess it’s a sign to go to bed, doesn’t look anything’s imminent one way or another…

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 1:16 am
  • I didnt think Hughes looked that shaky at all. I think he looked like a 21 year old with amazing stuff. If he stays healthy there is no reason he cant become a front of the rotation guy. Needs to learn to pitch but he has the stuff.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:17 am
  • Kepner:
    Pettitte informed the Yankees that he would return to play for them in 2008, a move that bolsters a rotation that is now unlikely to include Santana, the ace of the Minnesota Twins. In their talks Monday, the Twins asked the Yankees to add Ian Kennedy to their package of Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera, and the Yankees said no.
    “That’s not going to happen,” the senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said in a telephone interview late Monday night. “To give up two of the three, there’s no chance, not for anybody — unless it’s Koufax, and that’s not happening.”

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:17 am
  • Im out too… peace.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:18 am
  • Some News, but not much
    “The Yankees’ “by Monday night” deadline came and went. And Johan Santana was still a Twin when Tuesday arrived at the winter meeting. But even though the Yankees and Twins were still talking about different combinations as the night grew later and later, there was no indication that they were any closer to a deal for Santana than they were four days ago. In fact, if anything, the momentum seemed to be in the opposite direction. Officials from other clubs said several of the Yankees’ baseball personnel at the meetings had begun openly questioning whether they even wanted to make this trade if the Twins said yes. “The more this goes on,” said one AL executive, “the less they want to do it.” ”
    From Jayson Stark. Seems negotiations are comign apart

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:18 am
  • And Stark, from the ESPN meeting blog:
    But even though the Yankees and Twins were still talking about different combinations as the night grew later and later, there was no indication that they were any closer to a deal for Santana than they were four days ago. In fact, if anything, the momentum seemed to be in the opposite direction. Officials from other clubs said several of the Yankees’ baseball personnel at the meetings had begun openly questioning whether they even wanted to make this trade if the Twins said yes. “The more this goes on,” said one AL executive, “the less they want to do it.”

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:18 am
  • damn it Dio. does that mean they are still talking? i was ready to crash.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:19 am
  • Gah, beat me, Dio.
    If the Yanks are out of it, the Sox need to swoop in with a take-it-or-leave-it offer. Get it done.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:20 am
  • If i caqnt sleep you cant either, sam.
    *goes to heat up some ravioli*

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:21 am
  • also the yankees are right to walk away if the Twins are insisting on IPK. Thats too much.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:21 am
  • I can understand a team valuing a player like Ellsbury over Hughes especially when the Twins seem to be insisiting on Lester too….
    A starting pithcer only plays 33-34 games a year while a CF plays upto 162. Certainly more value there.

    TJ December 4, 2007, 1:21 am
  • I’m about to open a can of Coke, thus guaranteeing an additional two hours of awake time.
    That would not be smart.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:22 am
  • Position players are also more predictable than pitchers, which helps.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:23 am
  • the SP vs fielder debate is an old one. How many plays does an SP contribute to over the course of a season when compared to a CF?

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:23 am
  • *force feeds Paul Red Bull*
    Anyone ever seen those Stok coffee shot things? They come in creamer liek pacgaes and supposedly have the caffiene of a shot of espresso?
    I want to add one to a can of red bull, drink, and see what happens..

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:24 am
  • Someone made this point on SoSH…is it really a win for the Sox in the long run if Santana stays with the Twins? If he hits free agency next year, it’s pretty likely the Yanks just get him with cash. If they made the trade now, at least they’d be giving up prospects.
    Between just how much pure money it would cost, and the possible upside of the two main players focused on as possibly traded for Santana, you can see why Boston might not go for it.
    But if the Yanks are serious about the deadline, and the Twins honestly want Kennedy and the Yankees honestly won’t part with him…if the Sox want a shot at the best effing pitcher in baseball, this could be their best chance. I really think they should try to be creative and get something done if it’s feasible and (in their minds) financially responsible. Including packaging Ellsbury and Lester together if we would get a good reliever and a bench player or something in return.
    I’d prefer Bedard over Haren (if they assess him as not an injury risk) if they explore other SP options. I believe in Bedard’s stuff more, and he’s the kind of semi-project that Beckett was, and he’d be a lot cheaper to extend. He seems like a Sox sort of acquisition. Dunno if Baltimore would EVER consider parting with him to the Sox or Yanks. But maybe if we gave them a nice deal they couldn’t ignore (the equivalent of Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez).
    Yet, all that said, I’ll understand if they hang on to who they have and only make adjustments to the bullpen and bench. But I’d like a super-secret weapon to emerge. Hot stove can be fun.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 1:25 am
  • Go to bed, everyone. The sooner we end this vigil, the sooner something breaks.

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 1:25 am
  • i assume everyone will read this in the next 30 seconds but…
    The Twins have reportedly asked for Jacoby Ellsbury, Jon Lester and Jed Lowrie from the Red Sox for Johan Santana.
    from the crappy minn. paper.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:26 am
  • As I’ve said in the past, a sarting pitcher affects as many as 30 to 40 at-bats a game, whereas a starting position player has only his own four or five a game. At 162 games times four, that’s a max of 648 plate appearances in a season. For a pithcer who makes 30 starts, that’s about 900 plate appearances in a season.
    A quality starting pitcher directly contributes to his team’s fortunes for 30-33 games. How many games does a starting center fielder truly affect in that way (with a game-ending hit or run-saving catch)? 10? 15?

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:26 am
  • thanks paul, i gave the abbreviated version of that!

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:28 am
  • I’m sorry, we’re not packaging Lester and Ells.. and Lowrie TOO? F-That. Not even for Johan.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:28 am
  • Take it Theo!!! Take it!!

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:29 am
  • yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 1:30 am
  • Fun to see how fans of the same team can have radically different beleifs.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:31 am
  • a player of Ellsbury’s ability could effect every game with his speed alone.

    TJ December 4, 2007, 1:33 am
  • “People involved in the talks said they believe the situation is coming to a head and that Minnesota will make its call, one way or the other, in fairly short order. The Yankees have been seen as the favorite, but Boston may have renewed hope based upon the midnight phone call.”
    Lester’s ceiling is below what Santana is right now, and Ellsbury is a great prospect — but a great positional prospect whose value over the Sox’ starter last year is not likely to be as great as the value given by Johan Freaking Santana.
    Make.
    The.
    Trade.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:33 am
  • I think that is a bit too high a price. If they walk, I would be able to comprehend it. But can they debate any further? Do the Twins have a decent, non-Nathan, non-Neshek (spelling?) bullpen arm?

    Devine December 4, 2007, 1:33 am
  • they asked for hughes, melky, and Horne+ Jackson! thats nuts and seemingly more than what they asked for from the sox.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:33 am
  • Isn’t that kind of package as bad for Sox as Hughes+Melky+Kennedy (or Hughes+Melky+Horne+Ajax) for the Yanks?

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 1:34 am
  • I agree that Ellsbury is an electric, amazingly fun ballplayer to watch — scoring from second on a wild pitch, etc. But I just cannot fathom how his speed is going to make the Red Sox more of a force next year and in years to come than Johan Freaking Santana.
    How many times do I have to say it? It’s Johan Freaking Santana!!!!

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:35 am
  • if it were horne or Ajax it would be one thing but both, please.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:36 am
  • I agree with you about this, Paul: the importance of Santana on a team cannot be underrated. I watch him pitch when I can because his changeup is unbelievable and when he’s on, he cannot be beaten.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 1:36 am
  • Yeah, that’s just ludicrous, no matter if it is Johan freaking Santana. Sorry Paul =P

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 1:37 am
  • Thast how I feel ym, obviously Paul disagrees.
    I still like Lester+Crisp+Lowrie+Masterson. I’d even add anothe rprospect (Not Bowdne though, cant have ALL our pitching) if it took that.
    But Lester+Ellsbury = no
    Im beginign to thin Twins WILL keep Johan and go for a Win in 2008

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:37 am
  • No, YM, because it’s not two pitching prospects. That makes all the difference, at least to me (obviously, others here disagree).
    Dealing Lester, Ellsbury and Lowrie would leave the Sox with no holes — Santana replaces Lester, Crisp stays in center, Lowell, Lugo and Pedroia are locked in at Lowrie’s likely positions for years to come anyway.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:38 am
  • If he does come up for Free Agency in 2008, the bidding war will be ABSURD.
    Of course.. who knows.. he could get hurt.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:39 am
  • Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson and Hansen

    TJ December 4, 2007, 1:39 am
  • I’m sorry, Paul, but Crisp IS a hole. He’s just one of those players who cant, for whatever reason, function in Boston. His bat is gone. It’s nto comign back, ever

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:41 am
  • Hm Hansen is an itneresting chip. Damaged goods, to be sure.. but capable of great thigns if he can get it together

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:41 am
  • But his glove is fantastic, so much so that he’s rated above average at the position.
    Look, I hate his black hole of a bat as much as anyone, but his glove is outstanding, and as far as center fielders go, his production’s certainly been no worse than the vaunted Melky Cabrera’s. Never mind that his defense is among the best in baseball.
    If Boston accepts the Twins’ proposal and the Red Sox lose next season, it won’t be because Coco Crisp was manning center field with Johan Santana on the mound.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:44 am
  • A dead bat or two will not kill a team or stop it from doing well in the playoffs. Almost nobody has a great hitter in every hole. I don’t think having Crisp’s amazing defense and poor bat kills the Sox by any means or makes the position a hole.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 1:44 am
  • I hate that i cant let myself go to sleep. its december, normal people arent event thinking about baseball let alone obssessing over it.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 1:44 am
  • Kepner:

    The Yankees’ pursuit of Johan Santana showed a flicker of life early Tuesday morning when the Minnesota Twins backed off their demand that the right-hander Ian Kennedy be added to the Yankees’ trade offer.
    But with the Yankees’ midnight deadline for a deal come and gone, the teams had still not reached an agreement on the third player to be added to the package of Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera. If the sides cannot agree by Tuesday morning, the Yankees say they will back out of trade talks.
    “If things don’t change drastically, it’ll probably be no,” the senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner said.

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 1:47 am
  • And if Crisp was our only hole, thatd be one thing, but we still have Lugo and Tek (whom I love, dont get me wrong) in there.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:47 am
  • We’re not normal, Sam. Clearly not. This is the second December in a row I’ve stayed up to all hours reading every last word about a pitcher who wasn’t even likely to end up on my team anyway.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:47 am
  • Bah, I knew it was too good to be true. :-P

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:48 am
  • ARGH! THIS WONT END!!
    Am I dead? Is this Hell?

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:48 am
  • Didn’t the Sox just win the World Series with those same exact three holes? (Never mind underperformance by Drew and Manny and injuries to Papi)
    Anyway, Lugo hit .280 in the second half, so I wouldn’t discount him just yet.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:50 am
  • Hahahaha, this is awesome! I’m so glad there are other people just as psychotic and obsessed as me to “hang out” with.
    Interestingly, Kepner’s “backed off Kennedy” = Heyman’s “Horne+Jackson”? I don’t see how that’s any sort of improvement…

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 1:51 am
  • I imagine so, YM. I read it the same way.
    My brains about to melt down. Fuck this all, I’m gonna go watch the 2am DS9 I’ll be checking n AFTERWARDS

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:54 am
  • Yeah, I think that’s right, YM. The Twins said, “OK, you can keep Kennedy, but we want two replacements from the other five ‘untouchables.'”
    The Sox did something similar by offering Masterson and Lowrie, I thought, in addition to Lester and Crisp, since they weren’t adding Ellsbury.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:54 am
  • Man, this is so dumb. The deadlines in our heads have nothing to do with reality. Though now that the Twins have made their complete demands desired, maybe we’ll see something soon. It could just as easily happen Thursday as today, but with trades, they just swoop in and happen and you can never tell when.
    Then there’ll be extension drama similar to the Matsuzaka “will he sign?” deadline…well, not if the Yanks get him. He’ll get his money if he goes to the Yanks.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 1:55 am
  • Carfado
    “NASHVILLE – The Red Sox and Twins resumed some semblance of talks early this morning after the Twins had spent much of the night trying to convince the Yankees to give up Ian Kennedy as the third man in the trade proposal that also includes Melky Cabrera and Phillip Hughes.
    It was not known at this late hour how frutiful the talks were or whether the Red Sox were willing to budge on their reluctance to give up Jon Lester as well as Jacoby Ellsbury in the deal. There had been talk the Red Sox were looking at Santana’s medicals, but that could not be confirmed early this morning when efforts to reach Theo Epstein were unsuccessful.
    It appears that something could be resolved on the New York and Boston fronts today after Hank Steinbrenenr told the New York Times that the Yankees would not relinquish Ian Kennedy in the deal.”

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:56 am
  • Ugh, regardless of when this “ends,” there’s still another 72 hours of fun.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:56 am
  • Stark backs your reading, YM:
    “According to baseball officials who were aware of the talks, the Twins did make a counterproposal Monday after the Yankees rebuffed their latest attempt to nudge pitcher Ian Kennedy into the deal, along with Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera.
    After being told Kennedy was off the board, the Twins apparently proposed expanding the trade into a 4-for-1 swap, with players they considered to be lesser prospects than Kennedy. But the Yankees quickly rejected that pitch, too.
    So while Yankees officials had told other clubs they might be willing to extend their Monday deadline if they were “really close,” there was no evidence they were building momentum toward getting this much-ballyhooed trade done.”

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 1:57 am
  • Those 72 hous hold no terror for me Paul. If we’ve agreed to a trade, I have to beleive Theo’s prepared to pay the piper

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 1:57 am
  • here’s from Davidoff at newsday…
    spoke to Hank Steinbrenner at 12:45 Eastern Standard Time this morning, and while he was pessimistic about the Yankees’ chances to get Santana, he said that talks with Minnesota were ongoing.
    “Brian (Cashman) was giving them one more shot, and we’ll see what happens, ” Steinbrenner said. “It doesn’t look good to me.”
    Steinbrenner later added: “We’ll sleep on it. Whatever it is, we’ll discuss it one final time. But I’m beginning to think they just don’t want to trade him.”
    Steinbrenner made headlines, of course, by imposing a Monday deadline on the discussions with Minnesota. We’ll bring you more updates as they come along.

    sam-YF December 4, 2007, 2:00 am
  • I like those two sentences, Dionysus. “hold no terror” is a good turn of phrase, and I think you’re right about Theo, though he’ll fight tooth and nail for every dollar, every clause, every bonus for awards or Cy Young votes, etc.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:01 am
  • And a nation weeps…Meanwhile, how about this headline from the Pioneer Press:
    “Minnesota Twins haven’t made a Johan Santana deal yet; offers include young pitchers.”
    OK, I really think I’m going to turn in. Don’t think we’ll have a resolution until the morning, anyways. G’nite, y’all!

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 2:03 am
  • I’m watching postseason highlights to pass the time, the 3-run homer by Colorado in Game 3 of the NLCS, Manny’s “Airplaaaaaaaaaang” ending to ALDS Game 2, Hafner’s game-ending hit vs. the Yanks…

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:06 am
  • Update!
    Amalie Benjamion
    “The Red Sox have traded medical information with the Minnesota Twins on Jon Lester, which means that talks between the two teams have progressed.
    While it looked like things between the Yankees and Twins might be breaking down tonight, that might have left the door open for the Red Sox to slip in and grab Johan Santana. ”

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 2:17 am
  • I just saw that, Dio! Holy crap…what are we talkin’ here, what are we talkin’? Will staying up late have been worth it?

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:19 am
  • Holy crap!
    Amelie Benjamin:
    “NASHVILLE — The Red Sox have traded medical information with the Minnesota Twins on Jon Lester, which means that talks between the two teams have progressed.
    While it looked like things between the Yankees and Twins might be breaking down tonight, that might have left the door open for the Red Sox to slip in and grab Johan Santana.”

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:20 am
  • Wow, I was sooo late with that. Haha, got distracted…
    Trading medical information is usually the last step, isn’t it? I mean, you don’t care if the guy’s shoulder is healthy unless he’s about to be on your team…

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:22 am
  • The only question is if its Lester AND Ellsbury or if the Twins wisely determined they perfered Lester

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 2:22 am
  • If there’s a deal, Lester and Lowrie are clearly pieces on the Boston side. What else?

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:24 am
  • Incidentally, to continue an argument:
    Average AL center fielder last season: .272/.340/.414 (.754 OPS).
    Coco Crisp last season: .268/.330/.382 (.712 OPS).
    So not quite as bad as you’d think, relative to others at his position.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:25 am
  • Lester, Lowrie, Masterson and a fourth. Maybe Hansen like TJ suggested?

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:26 am
  • Well, no, Crisp would have to be involved if not Ellsbury. So Lester, Crisp, Masterson, Lowrie — or exactly what the Sox reportedly offered at first.
    Either that or Ellsbury, Lester and Lowrie.
    Hedging my bets… Hehe.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:27 am
  • Thank you, Dio and Paul, for being as crazy as me.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:27 am
  • Maybe they could add on an okay prospect like Hansen. If you’re gonna dangle 4, you might well decide to dangle 5. Whoa, come on, more news, more news, is anything happening?!

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:28 am
  • It would be especially awesome if the Sox managed to get another piece in there for the Ellsbury/Lester combo. Matt Guerrier?

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:29 am
  • If the Sox went to five prospects, they’d have to get more than just Santana back…

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:30 am
  • Shit, I’m checking yfsf at 2:31 in the morning.

    J (yf) December 4, 2007, 2:32 am
  • What if this prospect were heavily blocked at his position? I don’t know that such a position definitely exists on the Red Sox, though…

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:32 am
  • How serious is medical information exchange, really? Does it happen when you get close or when it’s really a matter of time? Anyone know?

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:34 am
  • New Olney piece says the Sox are in the lead:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3140645
    You guys are nuts. At least it’s only 11:30 where I am.

    Jackie (SF) December 4, 2007, 2:34 am
  • If ellsbury is not itn the deal, than Outfield is VERY blocked with up, another few years of Manny and Drew on a long deal

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 2:35 am
  • Or, uh, not Olney, but rather “ESPN news services”. Didn’t check my facts in the attempt to not get scooped…

    Jackie (SF) December 4, 2007, 2:35 am
  • Manny could come off the books in a year, though (which makes me pretty sad).

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:37 am
  • I’ve always understood that medical reports are the final step to finalizing a deal. You have the pieces in place, then you exchange medical histories.
    There’s no reason — and it might not even be legal — to do so otherwise.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:38 am
  • *puts on a pot of coffee*

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 2:38 am
  • You were right, Jackie. Olney reported it on the ESPN.com Winter Meetings blog.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:39 am
  • Paul…yeah, from a layman’s perspective, it seems like pretty sensitive material to be passing ’round if they’re not taking the guy.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:40 am
  • If I’m the Twins I want the Lester Package. Ivge said that before, but allow me to explain.
    If it wasnt for the presence of clay Buchholz, I’d rather PART with Jacoby than Lester, because pitchign is more valuable. With Buchholz around, Lester becomes.. nto expendable.. but less crucial. Thus, in th emindset of the Twins, Buchholz free, I want Lester before Jacoby

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 2:41 am
  • Thanks Paul, just saw it at the end of the piece too – the absence of a byline at the top got me. Typepad needs a comment editing function for my football-addled brain…

    Jackie (SF) December 4, 2007, 2:41 am
  • Man, Dio, you need a copy editor, lol

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:43 am
  • Jackie…not a football fan, per se (I watch it sometimes without a particular rooting interest), but saw pieces of that game and the end was heart-stopping knowing some people here would really care.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:43 am
  • Also just saw Schill’s latest blog post on the topic. I feel like current players (and I’m including Papelbon in this) should shut up about trades until they’re actually done. It’d be hard for me to go into work if I knew my labmates were all encouraging my boss to trade me for another grad student. :P

    Jackie (SF) December 4, 2007, 2:44 am
  • I am the Typo King. You should see me in chats! Thank god my Blog has spellcheck. I should update that, by the way.. but I wont. Not until this is ressolved or it is like.. Tuesday afternoon

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 2:45 am
  • Schilling talks too much and about everything. I like his willingness to take a stance on an issue, but sometimes it’s really aggravating, and it’s easy to see why opposing teams’ fans dislike him.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:46 am
  • LOL Devine, I’m a pretty casual fan… got into the Pats in part because I thought it’d be low drama compared to the Sox. Not tonight though!

    Jackie (SF) December 4, 2007, 2:46 am
  • By the way.. I guess I’ll plug MY Blog now… Read it pleas,e and give criticism. I’m not SF or Texas Gal, but I’m tryign to get a hang of this blogging business.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 2:47 am
  • Boston sports…not without my drama!

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:47 am
  • Wow, that Globe item hit like a ton of bricks, and now…
    Nothing.
    *crickets*

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:49 am
  • I’d love pointers
    I’d love information about this ‘deal’ more. DAMMIT I WANT TO SLEEP!

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 2:49 am
  • Foxsports via SoSH:
    NASHVILLE, Tenn. – The Red Sox roared back into the Johan Santana sweepstakes Monday night after the Yankees refused to add right-hander Ian Kennedy to their proposed trade.
    “They are in it now,” a major-league source said of the Sox.

    The Sox remain unwilling to include outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury in the same deal as left-hander Jon Lester, but the Twins might opt for their offer if the Yankees decline to include a third quality prospect with righty Phil Hughes and outfielder Melky Cabrera.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:50 am
  • Basically, Olney came on to confirm the Globe story, Rosenthal has said nothing but the Sox have “roared back” into the race but reported old info. Nothing new out of Minnesota, nothing out of New York, nothing new from Heyman.
    Come on, Globe Team! You’re our only hope now!

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:53 am
  • That’s weird…a post of mine should be here but I don’t see it…yet it’s up there in the upper-left corner tallying the most recent posts.
    Well, Foxsports says that the Sox are still unwilling to include Ellsbury, is the main gist.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:54 am
  • It’s there, Devine.
    It sounds to me like Rosenthal’s got nothing new except that one anonymous quote. He’s behind Olney and Benjamin on this.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 2:56 am
  • But yeah, that might be…behind the times.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:56 am
  • OMG! I just saw Johan Santana in my laundry room! And there he is walkign up my stairs! Ahh! He’s sitting on my couch! He says he aslo enjoys DS9.
    Hahahhahahhahahahhaha
    *twitches, glancing back and forth*

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 2:56 am
  • I wonder what time I would have gone to bed if the Globe blog bomb hadn’t dropped. God, I’m posting again and again and again. Nervous energy.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:58 am
  • Time for more stimulants!

    Devine December 4, 2007, 2:59 am
  • It’s been 47 excruciating minutes since the Globe broke that tidbit.
    If I find out the Twins leaked that info just to stall the talks for the Yankees to jump back in, I’ll march up to Minneapolis and put a hurtin’ on some Twins front office types.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 3:00 am
  • Johan just told me that he’d rather play for the Mets of any because he could rule the Natinal league with an Iron Fist. I asked what he thought of Boston since the Mets cant offer enough, he pointed out all the BC hotties he coudl get with.
    I’m gonna go grab beers for us from my fridge. *twitch*

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:00 am
  • What happens if all the reporters and execs are in bed, and we’re the only ones up??

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 3:03 am
  • That’s basically what I’m picturing after the Foxsports spin, Paul…God, that will be totally infuriating. And frustratingly rational on the Twins’ side. It sounds like things are moving, though, like one team will have to blink (whether it’s the Yankees, Red Sox, or Twins) in the relatively near future.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 3:04 am
  • *returns to sanity*
    That would be halarious, Paul. and I’d fly to Nashville and wake them all up.. with sledgehammers

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:04 am
  • Paul. How likely is that?
    You, by your own admission, were just here. You know Vegas doesn’t hold a candle to Nashville for its nightlife.

    QuoSF December 4, 2007, 3:05 am
  • Surely Amalie Benjamin, that intrepid reporter, would not desert the fanatics in our hour of need, or would at least tell us when she’s going to bed.
    The rational part of my brain says: THE SOX WON THE WORLD SERIES THIS YEAR! YOU ARE HURTING YOUR FUTURE SELF RIGHT NOW!
    The irrational part says: Santanaaaaaaaa…

    Devine December 4, 2007, 3:06 am
  • I was about to ask that Quo. Why NASHVILLE? Seems kinda.. boring? No not boring.. still, I can think of more ‘it’ places.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:06 am
  • Haha, I would hope one of the Globe writers would have the decency to say: “Nothing else to report here. Come back in the morning.”
    And I think the Sox would want to finish this deal before Cashman and Hank wake up from their beauty sleep. ;-)

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 3:07 am
  • NEWS!
    “Late Monday night, according to a Red Sox source, the team handed over medical records for left-hand pitcher Jon Lester, the critical piece in a four-for-one trade that would bring Santana for Lester, Coco Crisp, minor-league right-hander Justin Masterson and another minor leaguer.”
    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-winteranalysis120307&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 3:08 am
  • I can only assume that the Gaylord Entertainment Group made an awesome pitch to MLB.
    Though, I’m guessing that the majority of MLB personnel and MLB club FO types rarely get further from the hotel than the lobby.
    And that being the case, the Opryland Hotel is, objectively, gorgeous.
    …p.s. Pants Optional?

    QuoSF December 4, 2007, 3:09 am
  • If that’s the deal, and that is agreed to, Theo pulled off the coup of the century.
    Please God let it be so.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 3:09 am
  • Again. Lester, Crips, Lowrie, Masterson = Yes
    Lester + ellsbury = NO

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:10 am
  • “cautiously optimistic”, from a Red Sox source, is it?
    Not “they’re toying with us to bring the Yanks back in”?

    Devine December 4, 2007, 3:10 am
  • I explain the name in the first post, Quo. It harkens to Papelbons Pants-OFf Dance-Off and this blog

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:11 am
  • From the same article, which is actually about 30 minutes old:
    “A Red Sox official said he was “cautiously optimistic” the club could complete the deal for Santana, putting the two-time Cy Young Award winner next to Josh Beckett, Curt Schilling, Daisuke Matsuzaka and, probably, Clay Buchholz in the Red Sox rotation.”

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 3:12 am
  • Nashville is actually a really beautiful, exciting city. I’d say one of the underrated metropolises in the country, overshadowed and sullied by its reputation as the country music capital.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 3:13 am
  • Ah. Hadn’t gotten that far back yet.
    Having read it now, it all makes sense.
    I’ve always wondered if taking up blogging would be right for me…

    QuoSF December 4, 2007, 3:13 am
  • Ok now Im unacceptable revved up for this time of night

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:14 am
  • Would stand to reason that Twinkies would give Yanks one last call to see if they relented…I can’t imagine that a package of Lester+Crisp+?? (+$10 mil extra payroll!) beats Hughes+Melky+??.
    Seems like Twins overplayed their hand after all…
    /cant sleep

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 3:15 am
  • You are correct, Paul, re: Nashville. Also, for a city that most probably consider pretty “backward” the planning of the infrastructure (in terms of highways/etc.) was very well done in comparison to many others.

    QuoSF December 4, 2007, 3:15 am
  • Foxsports says talks ended 45 minutes ago, but Olney talks about a possible early-morning hours deal. What is going on? Should I go to bed and wait for Steinbrenner to swoop in and offer Kennedy?

    Devine December 4, 2007, 3:15 am
  • What do ya think of my ‘work’ thoguh Quo? Any constructive criticism besides cleanign up the actual appearce of the blog?

    Anonymous December 4, 2007, 3:16 am
  • Yeah, no word at all from the Yankees. Makes me nervous.
    Though Hank did say they would “sleep on it.” I would love to be a fly on the wall if he rally did go to sleep and woke up the next morning with the Sox having won out.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 3:17 am
  • YM – In terms of the $10M, have to consider the possibility that the Sox might take on a contract like Juan Rincon’s in return? Possibly? Anyone?
    Not that I want them to, but the Sox could find ways to do a little to even up the $$ situation for the Twins.

    QuoSF December 4, 2007, 3:18 am
  • I’m expecting all these conflicts to end up creating some sort of nexus.. an Insanity Vortex.. that will tear apart Nashville and htreaten the very world.
    Fortunatly, Green Lantern will save us!

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:19 am
  • conflicting reports that is

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:20 am
  • There’s also several different things coming from several different places…some talk about a 4-to-one with Lester or a 3-to-one with Ellsbury. Some Yankee blog (again, all via SoSH) has a source citing the Red Sox as offering Ellsbury, Crisp, Lester, and a prospect, which sounds f*cking stupid and ridiculous since we’d have no centerfielder then.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 3:21 am
  • OMG
    “The Red Sox and Twins are through negotiating for now, Both Sox GM Theo Epstein and Twins GM Bill Smith have called it a night, but momentous news may await in the morning. As Amalie Benjamin reported an hour ago, the sides have exchanged medical information on pitcher Jon Lester and Johan Santana, indicating that a deal may be in place.
    There were indications that the Twins would be getting center fielder Coco Crisp, pitcher Justin Masterson and infielder Jed Lowrie in addition to Lester, the winner of the Series-clinching Game 4 and a favorite of pitching coach John Farrell. But that was not confirmed. Repeat, That has not yet been confirmed. We’re working on it.
    Even if an agreement has been reached between the teams, the Sox are expected to request a 72-hour window in which to try and negotiate a contract extension for Santana.”

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:22 am
  • Dio – Not sure what you mean by cleanup: I think in terms of blogs, simpler is better, unless your blog actually has to do with web design in some way.
    And I’ve enjoyed the content thusfar (about 5 posts in).

    QuoSF December 4, 2007, 3:22 am
  • Thats from Gordon Edes via the Glob

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:22 am
  • Globe also confirms they’ve called it a night. Now I’m jacked up and there’ll just be tension when I wake up in the morning…

    Devine December 4, 2007, 3:23 am
  • Globe also confirms they’ve called it a night. Now I’m jacked up and there’ll just be tension when I wake up in the morning…

    Devine December 4, 2007, 3:24 am
  • Sure thyeve called it a night, but look who Gordon thinks the trade is for! Thats my Best Case Scenario (dream scenario subbed Bowden for MAsterson), bt still!

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:25 am
  • That’s the Newark Star-Ledger with the insane report, and that can’t be true, unless the Sox really really like Brandon Moss.
    Well, I sure wish they had wrapped it up tonight. Leaving it until tomorrow allows the Yankees to come back in, and something tells me they will.
    So I guess it’s good night.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 3:26 am
  • Oh my god, they even got it done without Ellsbury? I think I might vomit I’m so (cautiously) happy.

    Jackie (SF) December 4, 2007, 3:26 am
  • *isnt gonna be able to sleep*

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:26 am
  • Whoops, sorry for the double post. Should I go to my troubled sleep or listen for more on this “We’re working on it” from Edes?

    Devine December 4, 2007, 3:26 am
  • Im staying up. I dont work till 3pm so I can wake up as late as noon!

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:28 am
  • Stark:
    “If the Twins were satisfied with Lester’s medicals, it’s believed they would accept a swap of him, Coco Crisp, shortstop prospect Jed Lowrie and either highly regarded pitching prospect Justin Masterson or another player.
    Or if the Twins reversed field and decided they wanted center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury instead, it’s believed that would be a 3-for-1 trade — with only Ellsbury, Masterson and Lowrie going to Minnesota.”
    So there you go. Trading Lester honestly makes more sense for the Sox, from a standpoint of avoiding a logjam (Santana-Beckett-Mastsuzaka-Schilling-Lester-Buchholz-Wakefield).

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 3:28 am
  • Right now, I’m basically just expecting the Yankees to “do what it takes” to get Santana tomorrow.

    Devine December 4, 2007, 3:28 am
  • Love the quote at the end of the Stark piece:
    “”If the Red Sox get Santana,” said an executive of one NL team that’s grateful to be in the other league, “they might be the best team in the history of the frigging universe.””
    Ah, hyperbole. At least it made me laugh.

    Jackie (SF) December 4, 2007, 3:30 am
  • I have to keep telling myself that the Sox will have won if they force the Yanks to give up Hughes and Kennedy or Hughes, Horne and Jackson.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 3:30 am
  • They’d better not, Devine…The cost is just too high, IMO. Not worth it. If Sox want to give all that up + $150M, more power to them!

    yankeemonkey December 4, 2007, 3:31 am
  • Im goign to explode. Seriously. This is crazy.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:35 am
  • So do I win the last one up award?

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:40 am
  • I’m about to go to sleep, so you can at least count me out of the running…

    Devine December 4, 2007, 3:41 am
  • Yay I win!

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:43 am
  • I’m going to sleep now too… pondering Paul’s logjam comment. Is it REALLY ever possible to have too much pitching?

    Jackie (SF) December 4, 2007, 3:43 am
  • Nope, I was just putting a post up top.
    But NOW I’m going to bed. I really hope the news is good in the morning.

    Paul SF December 4, 2007, 3:46 am
  • Good night all! Im out too.

    Dionysus December 4, 2007, 3:50 am
  • Multiple sources are reprtoing the Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson and Lester deal…. If the names are in place and a deal wasnt finalized last night it could be for a couple reasons….
    a) Boston and Minn are discussing cash or the Sox taking on a salary to offset some of Crisps salary.
    b) The Twins simply wanted the night to think it over.
    c) Perhaps Boston prefers to make it official at a normal hour, so their 72 hour window with Santana wouldn’t end in the middle of a night (Though i’m not even sure if that window would begin once the deal is accepted or if it would begin later once the Commish approved it).

    TJ December 4, 2007, 10:27 am

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