No New News Dept., II: Manny Still Manny

Much ado has been made this morning of the nothing Ramirez posited during his nine-minute (yes, they timed it) session with the media yesterday. In case you missed it, the "news" worthy portion of the interview:

"We’re confident every day. It doesn’t matter how things go for you. We’re not going to give up. We’re just going to go and play the game, like I’ve said, and move on. If it doesn’t happen, so who cares? There’s always next year. It’s not like the end of the world or something."

Which is absolutely correct. If the Sox lose this series, they still will have had their best overall season since 2004, with their best regular season since 1995. There’s no reason the Red Sox shouldn’t be favored to reach the playoffs and try again next year, regardless of what happens tonight or later this week.

One can fume all they want about athletes not showing "heart," but I prefer my athletes to show heart the way Manny shows his — with a .462/.611/.923 line in the ALCS.

62 comments… add one
  • “One can fume all they want about athletes not showing “heart,” but I prefer my athletes to show heart the way Manny shows his — with a .462/.611/.923 line in the ALCS.”
    You got that. Who knows, Beckett could pitch another gem tonight then maybe luck will change our way in Boston. Regardless of what happens, it’s been a great season and we’ve certainly gotten the farthest since 2004… the most frusturating thing of all this is the nature of this team: so very talented but almost schitzophrenic in when the hits get strung together.

    Ed October 18, 2007, 10:44 am
  • I agree 110% with you Paul, I watch most every morning 10-15min of Mike and Mike in the morning (now that Imus is off the air) before I head down to the subway and this morning they were taking calls on what fans expect from their players. More pointedly do they expect their players to bleed with them. The majority of the callers said yes, but i disagree, I would rather them play well and play hard. While Manny may not play hard all the time he always gets the job done one way or another. As for having players bleed with the fans in times of agony, I think that some do and they are the ones we tend to love the best, the Tek’s, the Timlins, the Wake’s of the team who are such a part of Boston now they almost have to bleed when we do. Who knows what is really in their hearts, baseball and winning, or just cold hard cash.

    ShawnNYCsoxfan October 18, 2007, 10:46 am
  • As bad as the overeaction to that quote, which takes on a whole new context in the larger interview quoted in the story, is the headline/question on Boston.com this morning:
    “Dan Shaughnessy
    Red Sox’ Epstein, Francona in for blame.
    Theo Epstein is in for his share of finger-pointing if the Sox are eliminated by the Tribe. It’s never a good thing when your $143 million payroll gets beat by a team with a $61 million payroll.
    What (or who) is to blame for the losses?”
    Give me an effing break. Can we at least wait until they lose??

    Paul SF October 18, 2007, 10:49 am
  • If the Sox can bring this series back to Boston, I give them a 50-50 chance. Schilling can gut one out, and then Game 7 would be a crapshoot.
    But there is much to widespread an assumption that this game with Beckett is a lock. Cleveland obviously wants not only to win the series, but to do so in front of their home crowd. If the Sox don’t get a lead early, the stadium will be bezerk all night…
    (And yeah, Manny’s comments are neither here nor there, because his postseason play has been amazingly great, and we all know he isn’t exactly a wordsmith.)

    Hudson October 18, 2007, 10:56 am
  • I know, it’s really become a foregone conclusion with these guys, if we win the next two games look for the flip of “The Magic is Back etc etc” I’ve not gone to Boston.com or Espn.com since tues night, I can’t take the sensationalism right now, maybe tommorow if Beckett wins(haha)

    Ed October 18, 2007, 10:56 am
  • this game is certainly far from a lock, though C.C. has really not looked good during the post season, hopefully tonight’s too much for the doughboy (he, and Lofton, really looked obnoxious in the dug out tuesday night)

    Ed October 18, 2007, 10:59 am
  • The Manny quote is typical sport-radio fodder – every radio host yelling about it this morning, but it simply does not resonate with fans. If J.D. Drew or Coco Crisp said the same thing, I’d imagine SFs would be calling for their head(s). When a guy who is an assassin at the plate says it, no one cares.

    IronHorse (yf) October 18, 2007, 11:27 am
  • Well, the CHB starts out by saying how wrong he was in 2004.
    We need a great game tonight from Becks.

    Pete October 18, 2007, 11:28 am
  • And I expect a big game from Manny, so much so that folks will start asking why they’re not walking him.
    The guy is the reason Sox have gotten this far – 4 HR and 11 RBI in 7 Games. He’s an absolute Rasta-beast

    Pete October 18, 2007, 11:31 am
  • Yeah, but he’s still a showboating wanker. What do SFs say about that? Imagine if A-Rod or Jeter had done something like that; I’m sure you’d all be yelling about it.

    Sam October 18, 2007, 11:42 am
  • Curious to see how Sabathia does. He simply has not been an ace, either against NY in the ALDS or so far in the ALCS. He hasn’t been Chein-Ming Wang, but neither has he been Josh Beckett. Or even Fausto Carmona (the FC that showed up in the ALDS that is). If Boston wins tonight, which I expect they will solely based on Beckett starting, tomorrow sets up like a war. Cleveland’s best starter all year (yes, I think that is FC, not C.C.S) vs. uber-competitive Schilling in Fenway. To me, that sets up as Cleveland’s best chance to clinch and if they don’t, I wouldn’t bet on them winning game 7, no matter who’s pitching.

    IronHorse (yf) October 18, 2007, 11:46 am
  • “he’s still a showboating wanker”
    Amen to that.

    IronHorse (yf) October 18, 2007, 11:49 am
  • Give it a rest, Sam. The players can worry about keeping him in line. If not, so what?

    Pete October 18, 2007, 11:50 am
  • I feel a flame war about to blow

    rz-yf October 18, 2007, 11:55 am
  • Pete, as long as Manny acts like an arrogant a-hole at the plate, fans of opposing teams simply can not be expected to “give it a rest”. SFs for years have been holier-than-thou re: overpriced big ego Yankees. Well increasigly in the eyes of much of the baseball world, the Sox and their fans have become what they have long detested. To whit:
    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7323070?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49
    I have seen you argue a similar point here Pete in terms of RS FO decisions recently.
    On Manny’ spiece of this, the arguments made by some on this site that there is really nothing wrong with Manny’s behavior and – even more laughable – that Sox fans who don’t critique it now would feel exactly the same if it were done by a player of any other team – is so unbelievable as to not require a response.
    He is a brilliant hitter. He acts like a jerk at the plate. The dirt-dog underdog Sox of recent decades are the arrogant big-spending Sox with as many or more bandwago fans as any other team. Manny’s plate-behavior is only one stunningly obvious example of this transformation which everyone but some Sox fans can plainly see.

    IronHorse (yf) October 18, 2007, 12:04 pm
  • Play it again, Sam, I never get tired of that tune. Actually, no, Manny isn’t a showboating wanker. He’s a huge manchild. To help you magic eye this reality into your brain, whenever he does his Superman arms, just raise your arms and say “nyuuuur!” I guarantee that’s what’s going through his brain, and that the interview was given by his android press-bot.
    -A

    East River Blues October 18, 2007, 12:09 pm
  • Really, what’s the point? You really want to argue about Manny showboating?
    Meh.
    Meanwhile, the Yanks will hold the Torre announcement to upstage the World Series. Talk about real wankers…

    Pete October 18, 2007, 12:11 pm
  • I don’t need or want to argue about Manny showboating. It sounds like we all agree that he does and that he shouldn’t. Argument over before it began.

    IronHorse (yf) October 18, 2007, 12:18 pm
  • I don’t need or want to argue about Manny showboating.
    And yet, here you are, doing it.
    SF’s comments in the other thread pretty much captured it, I think. He’s not doing it to showboat, and he’s not doing it show anyone up. He’s doing it because he loves to hit, he loves to hit home runs, and he thinks it’s really cool when he hits one.
    Is it annoying? Yeah, at times, but you get used to it. We’ve had this discussion so many times, there’s not much use to having it again — unless you want to delve into personal attacks, like Sam did, for no appreciable reason at all.

    Paul SF October 18, 2007, 12:26 pm
  • Someone help me out here: I can’t see the forest for all the sox fans’ double standards!

    rz-yf October 18, 2007, 12:33 pm
  • There was another SF in that same thread who basically said, yeah, it’s a jerk move and I wouldn’t like anyone else doing it, but he is our jerk so we excuse it. Something like that. This line of argument I find much more convincing and honest. I know that as much as I loved Paul O’Neil, if he played for Boston the way he did for us, he would have been at the top of my “hate” list. This is natural.
    Oh and Paul, what makes this an argument? If it’s so beneath you don’t participate.
    It is funny how much SFs act like we shouldn’t beat this dead horse when they have so little problems beating the dead horses that make the Yankees look bad.

    IronHorse (yf) October 18, 2007, 12:38 pm
  • Indians say choice of Game 5 singer ‘coincidence’
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2007/news/story?id=3068893
    Updated: October 18, 2007, 12:31 PM ET
    Teams have been known to go to extraordinary lengths to get an edge. But the Cleveland Indians swear Thursday night’s choice of pre-game singer is not a piece of gamesmanship.
    Danielle Peck, a country music singer who also happened to date Red Sox ace pitcher Josh Beckett, will sing the national anthem and “God Bless America” at tonight’s Game 5 in Cleveland. Beckett is scheduled to start the game for Boston.
    “It’s an incredible coincidence. Honestly,” said Indians spokesman Bob DiBiasio.
    Taylor Swift was supposed to be the Game 5 vocalist, but when she couldn’t attend, DiBiasio said a country music booker recommended the up-and-coming Peck. She is from Coshocton and her single “I Don’t” is a hit.
    “She’s from Ohio. Her entire family are Indians fans. We did not know anything about her connections to Beckett. The next day, we find out the rest of the story,” said DiBiasio of Peck. “How are we supposed to know who Josh Beckett dates?”
    With a victory tonight, the Indians would close out the Red Sox and clinch their first spot in the World Series since 1997.
    Danielle Peck pic
    http://www.countrystarsonline.com/images/artists/2006/DaniellePeck_350.jpg

    Sam-Yf October 18, 2007, 12:52 pm
  • Hasn’t the Manny showboating thing been argued to death in the last three threads here?
    For the record, it bothers me when he does it… not so much because I think he’s trying to show anyone up (see manchild argument above; his interview last week) but because it gives all non-Sox fans something to whine about.

    Jackie (SF) October 18, 2007, 1:00 pm
  • “He’s not doing it to showboat, and he’s not doing it show anyone up. He’s doing it because he loves to hit, he loves to hit home runs, and he thinks it’s really cool when he hits one.”
    I don’t think the question is why he is doing it. The bottom line is it’s still disrespectful to both the game and to the opponent. It also makes him look foolish, especially in a game where they were still down a Grand Slam even after his HR. I am a Giants fan and I feel the exact same way about Shockey. I understand why he does it, but in my mind it doesn’t make it right and I don’t agree with it. But as you have all said this is an old argument, regardless of what we think or say Manny is going to continue to enjoy his HR’s, no matter the situation.

    John - YF (Trisk) October 18, 2007, 1:00 pm
  • Just for giggles, via the GYS network: Manny DMVing Manny

    Jackie (SF) October 18, 2007, 1:04 pm
  • How is having Josh Beckett’s girlfriend sing supposed to be an advantage for the Indians? If it isn’t a coincidence, it’s a pretty weird way to get a leg up. (Though they have their choice of two pretty fine legs there, if it came to that.)
    Anyway, back on topic… Who ever said tonight was a lock? I think the discussion has always centered around IF we win tonight, it’s back to being a series. I like the Sox chances to do so, but they could very well go 4-4 in the 2007 postseason, where it would be a losing record.

    FenSheaParkway October 18, 2007, 1:04 pm
  • “SF’s comments in the other thread pretty much captured it, I think. He’s not doing it to showboat, and he’s not doing it show anyone up. He’s doing it because he loves to hit, he loves to hit home runs, and he thinks it’s really cool when he hits one.”
    SF’s comments indeed capture it for him, as well they should – they state his OPINION.
    There are those of us who have a different view of Manny’s theatrics, and our opinion is no less valid. I kind of like Manny, but standing there watching a HR’s flight with outstretched arms is classless, inexcusable showboating.

    Andrews October 18, 2007, 1:05 pm
  • What do people expect to see from Sabathia tonight? Will he “ace-up” or put in another mediocre performance?

    IronHorse (yf) October 18, 2007, 1:07 pm
  • Baseball will police itself in this case. If the Indians are really that pissed about it and the opportunity presents itself, Sabathia will drill him in the back. Just like the Blue Jays with A-Rod – we can all make as much noise as we want, but they’ll make the final decision whether or not to stick one in his ear.

    ponch - sf October 18, 2007, 1:09 pm
  • Well, he was shaky but not shabby in his first game, and he was crushed like a bug in his second game. I think that means he has at least one good game tucked away somewhere in his giant uniform. I’m expecting that game tonight.

    FenSheaParkway October 18, 2007, 1:10 pm
  • Michael Kay out?
    Apparently on an XM interview, Sean McDonough said that he is negotiating with YES about becoming their play by play guy for the upcoming season.
    No idea how valid it is yet

    Sam-Yf October 18, 2007, 1:11 pm
  • I can’t help but think that he’ll be better tonight, with 2 postseason starts under his belt. With a 3-1 series lead, I expect him to be more relaxed and revert to form.

    Andrews October 18, 2007, 1:12 pm
  • “If the Indians are really that pissed about it and the opportunity presents itself, Sabathia will drill him in the back.”
    That may happen, but not until next season. Tonight is too important for the Indians to get into retaliation

    Andrews October 18, 2007, 1:13 pm
  • Sam, I really hope so. Kay is terrible.

    Andrews October 18, 2007, 1:14 pm
  • Has Manny ever been thrown at out of vengeance? I remember tons of times that he’s had to duck under pitches thrown at his upper body, but I don’t believe any of them were out of retribution. His HBP numbers don’t pop out at me (career high, 13 in CLE 1999) so I don’t believe it’s been a problem for him in the past. But my memory is foggy, and I’ve missed a lot of Sox games in the past few years. Anyone else know?

    FenSheaParkway October 18, 2007, 1:14 pm
  • Sabathia has looked human in his last 2 starts, while Beckett has been plain nasty. I think tonight’s game goes to the Sox. Beckett is as big game as it gets. The best part about it is Schilling follows him in Game #6, Sox have to like the chances of this going 7.

    John - YF (Trisk) October 18, 2007, 1:16 pm
  • Ponch: actually, if the Indians want to deal with manny the way the BJs dealt with A-Rod, they would wait for several months, multiple head-to-head matchups to pass, and then throw the ball several feet behind him twice.
    Is ponch a reference to CHiPs???? I sure hope so – that would be a great blast from the past.
    On C.C., I’ll be surprised if he is not stronger tonight then in previous outings this October for the reasons mentioned by others above. It is a tribute to Beckett’s consistent ace-itude in October that no one even questions how strong he’ll be tonight. Bastard.

    IronHorse (yf) October 18, 2007, 1:19 pm
  • I would wholeheartedly welcome Sean McDonough to YES. It will be weird to hear him speak favorably about Yankee fortunes, but at least he’ll do so literately and with a sense of humor. Can they team him up with Justice and Leiter full time?

    FenSheaParkway October 18, 2007, 1:23 pm
  • “classless, inexcusable showboating” strikes me as a bit of an overstatement. I understand the distaste for some of Manny’s antics, for sure. But what I wrote in the other thread and what I personally believe is that “classless, inexcusable showboating” needs, for me, to have more of a malicious intent, something which I find mostly absent from Manny’s silliness.

    SF October 18, 2007, 1:24 pm
  • Christ, we’re still Manny-razzing? Who gives a flying f*ck (especially today)?

    Devine October 18, 2007, 1:36 pm
  • Wasn’t Sean McDonough the Sox former announcer, and doesn’t Don Orsillo sound exactly like him?

    Nick-YF October 18, 2007, 1:40 pm
  • “classless, inexcusable showboating” and “manny being manny” are just two extremes of what is, to me, just an eye of the beholder situation, which aren’t really ‘resolvable’.
    If ‘classless’ or ‘inexcusable’ came up in a word association test, I’d first think of someone like Terrell Owens, the highlight of whose showboating career came in Dallas, when he showed up the entire stadium. Yet, now that he plays well for Dallas, I don’t hear any Cowboys fans demanding his ouster.
    And that’s the most egregious example I can think of. Manny is nowhere near Owens. Someone else above said it best, that its more believable that Manny just sort of loses himself sometimes. I’m still not excusing that; frankly, it bugs me a little too, and makes me cringe, if only because it reflects poorly on the Sox, and provides fodder for debates like this one here.
    But without the context, I think Manny is an excellent player and comedian. If he played for Seattle, I probably wouldn’t care, and if he played for NYY, I’d be pissed all to hell.

    FenSheaParkway October 18, 2007, 1:45 pm
  • McDonough was a Sox announcer for several years. I enjoyed him on the summertime “Sox on Fox (25)” series during many cable-less years. That’s why it would be weird to hear him extolling the Yankees virtues.
    And he does sound just like Don Orsillo most of the time. I think it took me a month to realize that McDonough didn’t secretly sneak back into the booth in Don’s first full-time season.

    FenSheaParkway October 18, 2007, 1:47 pm
  • SF: Is it classy? No. Is it excusable? No. Seems to me to mark the definition of something called “classless and inexcusable”. If someone had called it “malicious” I’d agree with you.
    On Michael Kay, I’d so love for him to go away. I don’t really understand how much media-power/attention he has garnered these past several years – his spot at YES, his own ESPN show (with the worst lead-in music I’ve ever heard). He is not terrible or frequently inaccurate (John Sterling) – but he is just bland, boring, and not that interesting to listen to.

    IronHorse (yf) October 18, 2007, 1:50 pm
  • Correction: I did not realize Danielle Peck was Beckett’s EX, and not his current girlfriend.
    Still, if that’s supposed to be a dig, the Indians may want to revise their PSYWAR playbook.

    FenSheaParkway October 18, 2007, 2:14 pm
  • for the record the Sam and Sam-YF posting here is not the same one that has been regularly posting here for the past season.
    Maybe a new name for you so people can tell us apart.

    Sam-YF October 18, 2007, 2:32 pm
  • Kay has been venturing into Franscesa territory lately on his radio show – yelling at callers, talking to them like they’re idiots, and so on. He’s also really into closing his rants by repeating an insult – “That’s just stupid. It’s stupid.”
    Ironhorse – the ‘Ponch’ thing was for a bizarre reference to Pancho Villa that morphed and stuck. But I’m not above donning a cheesy smile and saying, “Miss, I’m going to have to give you a ticket for being too beautiful,” for a laugh.

    ponch - sf October 18, 2007, 2:43 pm
  • TORRE LANDS IN TAMPA
    http://www.nypost.com/seven/10182007/sports/yankees/torre_lands_in_tampa.htm
    Ny Post reports Joe arrived in Tampa

    EvilSam-Yf October 18, 2007, 2:44 pm
  • I changed my name to Evil Sam.

    EvilSam-Yf October 18, 2007, 2:45 pm
  • Holy shit, Torre is managing Tampa next year?!
    Gutsy move, Joe. I like it.
    ;)

    FenSheaParkway October 18, 2007, 2:46 pm
  • Thanks evilsam-YF. Its not every day you run into others with our name…

    Sam-YF October 18, 2007, 2:51 pm
  • Wasn’t Sean McDonough the Sox former announcer, and doesn’t Don Orsillo sound exactly like him?
    Indeed. When I first heard NESN again after a long, long time away, I thought they’d hired back McDonough, who was the voice of my youth.
    Would he be the first broadcaster to announce for both teams?

    Paul SF October 18, 2007, 3:00 pm
  • ” its more believable that Manny just sort of loses himself sometimes”
    As entertaining as the “Manny the idiot savant hitter” thing is, from what I’ve heard, the guy is one of the best prepared hitters in the game. Hard to believe someone that serious about his craft would suddenly lose himself 2 seconds after making contact with the ball…

    Anonymous October 18, 2007, 3:17 pm
  • Update: SI says the deal is almost done and is likely for 1 year.
    WFAN says announcement should come within the hour.
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/10/18/torre.thursday/index.html

    EvilSam-Yf October 18, 2007, 3:19 pm
  • on torre: i have never in my life been so glued to a situation…PLEASE bring back Joe!!!
    on Manny: If he were a Yankee, we would all love him. His antics are ridiculous but so are his numbers. That being said, I think he makes himself look like a fool when he admires a HR while down 4 runs but as others have said, let the Indians deal with him…

    krueg October 18, 2007, 3:27 pm
  • Another season (or two) of Torre…

    John - YF (Trisk) October 18, 2007, 3:35 pm
  • Damn. I was really hoping the Yanks would shoot themselves in the foot with that situation. Stupid Brian Cashman and his level-headed thinking.

    Paul SF October 18, 2007, 3:39 pm
  • Can’t say I am excited about having him back, but I have already made that crystal clear. I guess that gives us the edge to get back Jorge and Mo.

    John - YF (Trisk) October 18, 2007, 3:42 pm
  • His antics are ridiculous
    Again, hyperbole. Manny’s “antics” are few and far-between, to be honest. A bit like A-Rod’s, and I don’t mean that critically. Yet they both garner such ridiculous attention when they do happen (hey, a guy stared at a homer: BIG deal, in the grand scheme of things, though easy enough to pick on when they happen, we all do it including yours truly) that it’s become common to believe that Manny (and A-Rod) perpetrate these antics all the time. They don’t. They both, for the most part, are workmen. Like with A-Rod, this generalist characterization just isn’t truthful, and it is something that annoys me, this popular belief that these guys are both clowns.

    SF October 18, 2007, 3:47 pm
  • i like sean mcdonough. that would be a huge upgrade. the best sox to yankees acquisition (albeit with a bit of lapsed time in between) in about 80 years.

    Yankee Fan In Boston October 18, 2007, 3:54 pm
  • ” Manny’s “antics” are few and far-between, to be honest”
    I’m sure you see more sox games than I do, but in the ones I do watch, he pulls the “home run stare” rather often.
    As I said earlier, I kind of like the guy – I just have a problem with ANY player who stands and admires a HR.

    Andrews October 18, 2007, 4:37 pm
  • “…Which is absolutely correct. If the Sox lose this series, they still will have had their best overall season since 2004, with their best regular season since 1995….”
    nice try paul…you may have thought you slipped this little nugget past me, but i told you all i would call you on the “anything less than a ws victory is no good” bs you badgered us yf’s with last season…you aren’t out of it yet by a long shot, but this quote just proves that you’re already hedging your bets…nope, if you lose, you are a failure…welcome to the club buddy…it ain’t fun, especially with fans from the other side rubbing it in…

    dc October 18, 2007, 9:37 pm

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