Now, The News:

Tim Wakefield has been left off the World Series roster. Bad shoulder.

36 comments… add one
  • This makes me sad, but it is almost certainly for the best. I dread Wake’s post-season starts. And the possibility of him throwing the knuckleball in Coors…yikes.
    On the other hand, kind of psyched and kind of terrified about Lester starting a WS game.

    stuck working October 23, 2007, 4:16 pm
  • I wonder if this is Wake’s last season.

    Nick-YF October 23, 2007, 4:17 pm
  • I’m hoping that it’s
    Beckett
    Schilling
    Matsuzaka
    Schilling.
    Problem solved.:)

    Anonymous October 23, 2007, 4:18 pm
  • I wonder if this is Wake’s last season.
    Me, too, Nick. He could go out on top: 17 wins and just amazing for much of the season. The injuries just seem to be piling up.
    I could see the Sox re-signing Schilling and letting Wakefield go. That would set up Lester and Buchholz for the 4/5 slots.
    Ah, but I’m getting ahead. Four wins in seven games. That’s all we need.

    Paul SF October 23, 2007, 4:29 pm
  • Uh, I mean,
    Beckett
    Schilling
    Matsuzaka
    Beckett
    duh.

    Anonymous October 23, 2007, 4:32 pm
  • Poor Wake. If there’s a guy who deserves a start based on his season and tenure with the Sox, it’s Wake.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF October 23, 2007, 4:37 pm
  • Would they throw Becks 1-4-7? I’m all for it, but why would they do it now but not in the ALCS? He’d actually get less rest in the Series – pitching 3 and 7 both on three days rest. I suspect we’ll see Lester.
    Paul –
    Problem with Lester and Buck is that neither are ready for 200 innings. Lester is closer. But still, what’s the back up plan in case one of the starters goes down with an injury? Wake isn’t a bad back up plan. Otherwise, they may have to sign someone or hope Masterson is ready mid-season.

    Pete October 23, 2007, 4:39 pm
  • Isn’t Wakes deal year to year?
    I get scared when he pitches, but oh I love how much he gives to the team, and I do think he adds a little something to our staff, if only because he could be so great at times.
    I’ve been trying to get his autograph for my collection for so long. (sigh)

    bostondreamer October 23, 2007, 4:41 pm
  • Yeah, I hear you, Pete. Maybe dialing back Wake’s workload would help him stay healthier next season. Using him in the Julian Tavarez role would be a plus, I think — essentially have a three-man rotation for your back two spots. I’m guessing each pitcher would end up being well above league average for those positions.

    Paul SF October 23, 2007, 4:42 pm
  • 1-4-7
    My line of thought is that they are up 3-0 when game four comes around, and if so, yes.

    Anonymous October 23, 2007, 4:44 pm
  • ^me.

    Brad October 23, 2007, 4:47 pm
  • Agreed on Wake and Jules. They can both spot start and fill in admirably for a few weeks at a time. Meanwhile, the combo would cost less than 8 million. They ain’t getting a cheaper 4/5 on the market. Maybe they could send Coco to Texas for Gabbard? Or else use him to get a decent 4/5?
    By the way, on Lester/Buck they need to be thinking about how they’re going to limit their innings if they want both to be strong down the stretch and into October.

    Pete October 23, 2007, 4:57 pm
  • I think Tavarez is a goner. I meant Wakefield would replace Tavarez, essentially taking one of every three or four starts from Lester and Buchholz. That would give each about 20 starts, at 6-7 IP per start, no more than 200 IP heading into October.

    Paul SF October 23, 2007, 5:01 pm
  • I don’t worry too much about it, since it’s possible that NY goes into the season with the same exact inning limit on 2 of their starters.
    They’ll figure it out.

    Brad October 23, 2007, 5:06 pm
  • Wakefield was the guy who won the only game the Sox took off the Rockies this summer, FWIW. I think that was the 2-1 game.
    I’m sorry he’s off the roster, both for sentimental and practical reasons.

    Hudson October 23, 2007, 5:12 pm
  • Maybe on Jules – but his option is only 3.8 million and he’s been a league average pitcher for two seasons now.
    Yanks seem to have more organizational depth. After all, we saw about ten of their young arms this year. Quantity isn’t the same as quality, but they seem better prepared to deal with an injury. And if Pettitte returns, then there isn’t room for one of Hughes, Joba, or Kennedy in their rotation (with Mussina and Wang). That one is a pretty solid back up plan.
    Sox do have Hansack and Pauley, but they don’t exactly instill a ton of confidence. Hopefully Masterson is ready for a few starts if necessary.

    Pete October 23, 2007, 5:20 pm
  • I’m sad that he’s off the roster for sentimental reasons, but if his back is really in bad shape it’s certainly for the best. And now we don’t have to worry about the knuckle’s reaction to elevation.
    I don’t know what to think about this being his last year… I hadn’t been considering it, but it suddenly seems possible. I wouldn’t blame him for wanting to go out on top, but I also think it’s possible that he’ll come back as a reliever or for limited starts next year. I would love to have him, but I also wouldn’t begrudge him retirement. He’s been a class act his whole career, and after the last contract he signed with the Sox he should be allowed to do whatever the hell he wants.

    Jackie (SF) October 23, 2007, 5:23 pm
  • // And now we don’t have to worry about the knuckle’s reaction to elevation. //
    And the Rockies don’t have to worry about reacting to the knuckler… All in all, I think this is a loss for the Sox.
    It increases the temptation to put Beckett out there on short rest, which would be a gamble. (He seems invincible on normal rest.)

    Hudson October 23, 2007, 5:40 pm
  • I don’t see Becks in three games most especially because both Games 4 and 7 would be on short rest. I think they have to throw Schilling in Games 3 and 7, mostly to prevent Dice from pitching in Denver. Then maybe they should think of throwing Tavarez in Game 4? He wasn’t too bad when he played in COL – he actually had a 3.96 ERA at home in 2000 when he played with the Rox.

    Pete October 23, 2007, 5:56 pm
  • I was reading the other day that the Sox were looking to exercise Wakefield’s option for next year and probably cut Tavarez free. This was from Edes. Granted Edes is not the front office, but this story was interesting.
    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/10/red-sox-rumors.html
    And an interesting story regarding Crisp.
    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/10/nats-considerin.html
    Just rumors.

    Rob SF October 23, 2007, 6:00 pm
  • Sox announced the roster
    PITCHERS (11): Josh Beckett, Manny Delcarmen, Eric Gagne, Jon Lester, Javier Lopez, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Hideki Okajima, Jonathan Papelbon, Curt Schilling, Kyle Snyder, Mike Timlin.
    CATCHERS (2): Doug Mirabelli, Jason Varitek.
    INFIELDERS (7): Alex Cora, Eric Hinske, Mike Lowell, Julio Lugo, David Ortiz, Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youkilis.
    OUTFIELDERS (5): Coco Crisp, J.D. Drew, Jacoby Ellsbury, Bobby Kielty, Manny Ramirez.

    TJ October 23, 2007, 7:40 pm
  • What’s the most striking part of this Globe paragraph, would you say?
    Just as they did to start the 2004 World Series, the Red Sox will bring out captain Carl Yastrzemski to throw out the first pitch before Wednesday night’s Game 1. Yastrzemski, a first-ballot Hall of Famer, played his entire career (1961-83) with the Red Sox, amassing 3,419 hits and 452 home runs. Yaz won the triple crown in 1967, a feat no Major Leaguer has matched since.
    Yeah, the Triple Crown part is pretty neat and exceedingly rare.
    But in 21st Century baseball, the “played his entire career with the Red Sox” part is the real stunner…

    Hudson October 23, 2007, 7:51 pm
  • Wow, Jules doesn’t even make the cut – surprising given his past success there. I just hope one of the starters doesn’t get shelled in Denver. They can piece together one game but it will hurt them the next. And I’m guessing Lest takes Game 4.

    Pete October 23, 2007, 7:52 pm
  • Wow, no Orc on the roster, despite the spot opened up by Wakes. To find yourself lower on the totem pole than Gagne takes some doing…

    Hudson October 23, 2007, 7:53 pm
  • And 22 years at that, Hudson.

    Pete October 23, 2007, 7:55 pm
  • I’m a little surprised to see Snyder on the roster rather than Tavarez… I guess his BAA is considerably lower. I’m too lazy to look up anything useful (like FB/GB splits) but I’m sure the FO has a rationale.
    Earlier today, NECN was reporting that Coco was going to be off the WS roster entirely. Am happy that isn’t the case. Am also happy that they’ll be starting Jacoby in CF tomorrow night.
    And apropos of nothing: I’m getting together with a couple other internet Sox fan friends to watch the game at Raleigh’s in Berkeley (CA) on Thursday night… any and all East Bay Sox fans welcome to join us. I’ll be rockin a gray “Cowboy Up” tshirt and Sox hat.

    Jackie (SF) October 23, 2007, 8:34 pm
  • Hudson,
    I agree both are impressive and admirable, but I would have to say the crown is the truly remarkable feat.
    Marquee players since Yaz with their entire career with one team just off the top of my head… Brett, Ripken, Schmitty, Bench, Puckett, Gwynn, Yount, Larkin, Chipper, Bernie.
    I can name a few triple crown winners besides Yaz without cheating only because I looked it up for a piece I was working on the other day while reading about Hornsby .. Robinson, Mantle, Ted a couple times, Gherig, Foxx (i think).. but it’s a really rare feat. Only about a dozen guys since deadball.
    But please know I’m not trying to diminish anything Yaz has done. Amazing. One of my first heroes.

    attackgerbil October 23, 2007, 8:37 pm
  • The triple crown is an amazing feat, but the stathead in me snorts in disgust at the RBI component.
    What would the Sabermetrics triple crown be, do you think? OBP, OPS and VORP? OPS, HR (park adjusted) and VORP? I wonder how many players over the last couple decades have hit either of those trifecta(e).

    Jackie (SF) October 23, 2007, 8:45 pm
  • I would imagine that if the situation called for it, we would have seen ten of Boston’s young pitchers this year too, but since we didn’t we can’t really assume that they are any worse or better than those we saw from NY, Pete. Now, I’m not a Yankee fan, so I’m not an expert on the scouting reports of guys from within their system, but I do know that, in spot starts, Boston will be fine. Since we’re both admitting that quantity absolutely doesn’t equal quality. Any team can call up junk for Tuesday afternoon starts.
    Also, if game four is the deciding game, I’d bet my car that Beckett tosses it. If not, he definitely doesn’t. I’m sticking with the following hope:
    Beckett
    Schilling
    Matsuzaka
    Lester/Beckett
    Beckett
    Schilling
    Matsuzaka
    I’m not nearly as down on Matsuzaka as Yankee fans are. If he throws strikes, and trusts the team behind him, he’ll be fine. If not, he gets the quick hook and the gates open for game seven.

    Brad October 23, 2007, 8:59 pm
  • Yanks seem to have more organizational depth…
    Pete,
    Not flamethrowing here, but is there any little area of baseball that the Red Sox actually do have the advantage over NY? I mean, I know they do, I’ve just never heard or seen you admit to such. No matter what it is, from the FO down to the organizational depth, and with quick stops at ace pitchers, catchers, young arms, and managers, you seem to think that NY is the model of excellence, and Boston lags behind in every area.
    I’m just curious, man. Not starting a fight. What is it that you think Boston does better? What is it that has allowed Boston to be the better team this year? Was it the Drew move, or maybe Lugo? Was it the better manager? Was it a better rotation? Better hitters? What is it that you think is GOOD with the Red Sox?
    In the past week, I’ve read nothing but comments of you comparing things to NY, or always reverting back to how NY does things, or how Francona won’t be able to cut it, or how “not dynastic” the front office is, or so on and so forth…
    What is it that you like about the old team? It seems to me, that it’s very little, and in your comments, I just can’t figure out what it is that you find acceptable, or even better – great.
    Again, not trying to start a fight, so please don’t take it that way.

    Brad October 23, 2007, 9:13 pm
  • If the Sox get sub-five-inning starts in consecutive games, of course they will be in trouble. They were in trouble in the ALCS because received THREE such starts in a row. I like Snyder a lot, though his control is still hit or miss. I don’t see him as any more or any less reliable than Tavarez, with the exception that I’d have no confidence in his ability to start in the event of a disaster.

    Paul SF October 23, 2007, 9:17 pm
  • Brad –
    Sorry, but it’s easier for me to criticize the Sox because I know them inside and out and it’s my way of venting. The organizational depth comment about the Yankees is more the Hughes/Joba/Kennedy triumvirate. You can’t say the Sox have anything that compares to that. But I’ve never compared catchers (though have supported Kottaras against doubters here) or managers. Ace pitchers I didn’t compare either – just questioned whether Becks is truly an ace (and I’d love to know where the October version goes the rest of the year).
    I really don’t have too many complaints these days – the Sox are in the Series! Who can complain? And if my only complaint is that Jules is left off the roster, then life is good! Still I’d rather Dice be pitching both games in Fenway than hanging off-speed stuff in Denver.
    As for what’s gone right this post-season: Becks plus Manny and Paps. But really it all comes down to Becks. He’s pitched at the very best of his talent. The team gets huge props from me for the trust in Peds and the switch to JElls this late. Otherwise, the years of Youk (similar props), Lowell, and Okajima were huge.
    My questions for you: Why do you have such a thin skin? And you still want to get rid of Manny?

    Pete October 23, 2007, 9:38 pm
  • Why is Gagne on the roster?

    Ron Newman (SF) October 23, 2007, 9:59 pm
  • Just a comment to Pete about Beckett.
    K/BB ratio – 4.85
    BAA – .245
    WHIP – 1.14
    ERA – 3.27
    These are ’07 numbers, clearly his best year. But I think if you look at his ’05 numbers, you’ll see a similar performance except with respect to his K/BB ratio which is, admittedly, markedly better this year.
    He’s 27. In the ’03 post season he was a stud. So far in ’07, he’s proven to be a stud. While I won’t go so far as to say that he’s an ace on a dominant team for the next several years, I’d say the chances are considerably better than average that that will prove to be the case. In any event, I’m liking Beckett over anyone in the Yankees rotation or system.
    Oh, and the organizational depth comment. You saw the Yankees put so many young pitchers in play because they had to. The Sox have been relatively injury-free this year. I don’t know enough about the Yankees farm system to comment, but given that Pedroia, Youk, Ellsbury and Papelbon are all home grown (not to mention Hanley Ramirez), I feel pretty good about the Sox ability to identify and groom young talent.

    Craig October 23, 2007, 11:29 pm
  • Pete, my skin is far from thin; I was just curious is all.
    Both teams are set up nicely, but I caution annointing Kennedy anything more than a fifth starter. He did have a great year in the minors this year, but, well yeah. Joba is great, and a few years younger, but the Red Sox do have a nice young closer of their own, and to be honest, that’s where Joba should be. We’ve yet to actually see him start, so if the questions were asked on the probability of Papelbon starting games, the same must be applied to Joba. You say Hughes, and I say Clay. I’ve seen enough of both, having attended several Pawtucket games (and Clay’s no hitter, albeit against Baltimore), and they’re comparable on every level. So yeah, Kennedy might have the edge of Masterson, but for now, Boston’s arms are better, both young and older. Both Beckett and Matsuzaka are in their prime, and we can only assume he gets better next year in his second year..NY does not have that at all, which means they’re going to hit those young arm bumps as well as we are.
    I guess its a toss up on whom any one individual feels better about, but I’ll not just accept that Boston lags behind in any area at all. Well, maybe at SS.:) maybe.
    Also, I’m not against Manny, but I think that they should absolutely get what they can for him while he’s so hot right now. He is going to hit the Winter on fire in trade rumors, and realistically, moving Manny could shore up a pitching staff for years to come. Teams do win without Manny. I’m all for signing Jones (I think last year was a fluke), trading Manny for a pitcher somewhere for middle of the rotation, and having an outfielder that everyone is comfortable with no matter where the ball is hit. Put Drew on the wall, Jacoby in right, and Jones in Center. That’s automatically turns Boston’s outfield into one of the best OF in the game, and I’m a big proponent of “a run saved” theory… which is why I have such a man-crush on Beckett.
    Well, that and I think he’s the best in baseball not named Johan. Honestly, I can’t think of one pitcher that I’d rather have than Beckett. He faces the Yankees three or four times a year, the Angels, the Tigers, and other great offensive teams; not taking anything away from Sabathia or the Angel starters, but, well, we’ve seen first-hand over the past two weeks who brings it, and who doesn’t. He does.

    Brad October 24, 2007, 8:30 am
  • Edit: Boston’s arms are equivalent, both young and old.

    Brad October 24, 2007, 8:39 am

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