Opening Day Post-Mortem

Openingday

Two teams, two wins, two different ways.  A harbinger of this season, perhaps?  Our beloved Sox relying on timely defense, rat-a-tat-don’t-know-what-hit-them rallies, Papi (of course, Papi), and superb pitching, while the hated and no-longer-feared Yankees throw what they hope will be an overachieving pitcher out there with the hopes that their offense can score "several plus one" runs to their opponents’ "several".  No matter what, there are lots of happy northeasterners tonight, including my Mom and Dad, who sent me the shot above courtesy of their snappy new cell phone – it’s a miracle they were able to get anything out of it.  Kind of like the Yankees and their pitchers.

Feel free to discuss the day’s action here – those game threads (Nick, we won that one, too, going away) are getting as gangly as the Yanks team ERA. 

47 comments… add one
  • I’m most bummed by the thread defeat. What happened, fellas?!

    NickYF April 11, 2006, 6:52 pm
  • Wily Mo: 0 dingers
    Arroyo: 2 dingers

    Spidey April 11, 2006, 6:57 pm
  • What happened Nick is that you YFs all clammed up when the goings got tough. Not shocking.

    SF April 11, 2006, 7:12 pm
  • Not true, Spidey. Wily Mo has ONE home run. Unfortunately, it was a fly ball today that was supposed to be caught that he knocked into the bullpen, giving the Jays a 2 run dinger.

    SF April 11, 2006, 7:13 pm
  • Well, here’s one problem with the SF pitching theory: Yankee ERA 3.64, Sox ERA 3.77.
    And while Wang obviously hasn’t lived up to our hopes so far this year, SF’s wrong there too: Wang 2006 ERA 5.91, Wakefield 2006 ERA 6.52. Beckett, we’re sorry to say, 1.29.
    Chacon will get back on course Wednesday. What will Boomer do against Chacin?
    A wonderful day at the stadium. Sox fans can rant and rave, but we love our guys. And we’re the team with “our guys” — only Johnny D, unloved in Boston, is new.
    Bernie got a few standing O’s. Captain Jeter showed why he’s captain when things were looking bad. Mo was Mo. We don’t mind if he plunks a guy now and then.
    Was Derek’s game winner, which stopped them from going 2 and 5, a key moment in the season? Let’s see where they go from here.
    BTW, from beginning to end, including more than an hour outside the stadium before and after, I never heard “Boston Sucks.” I wonder how many times SF’s mom heard “Yankees Suck”?

    john April 11, 2006, 8:06 pm
  • Sox fans can rant and rave
    What does this mean, John? Seriously. Sometimes I just have no clue where you’re coming from.

    SF April 11, 2006, 8:16 pm
  • Just to reiterate, when you make a comment like that about us Sox fans “ranting and raving” (which today was pretty damn baseless) and then act like you don’t care about the Sox or that you are somehow above the fray, it’s just transparently BS. It’s like if I said that “I really couldn’t care less about those arrogant, dickish Yankees fans”, when a comment like that shows that I do, in fact, think quite a bit about Yankees fans.
    I don’t deny my attention to what you guys do and think – it’s part of what makes me who I am; I am not innoculated. But why do you try so hard to fake it?

    SF April 11, 2006, 8:25 pm
  • SF –
    What do I mean? I had just read both game day threads, and so much of each was Sox fans talking about Yankees. Many Sox fans love to rant and rave about how bad the Yankees are.
    This is YanksFanSoxFan. Of course there’s going to be talk about the other team. Like our talk about Wang and Wakefield, which started in a player by player comparison. But read both game threads and you won’t see many Yankee fan comments about how bad the Sox are. Comparison? Questions? of course. That’s one of the points of your blog, no?
    I don’t say I don’t care about the Sox. I say I don’t hate the Sox. I say I like the Yankees to win, and that it doesn’t make me happy to have the Sox lose, except when we’re neck and neck in a pennant race.
    When I’m watching a Yankee game, I’m not thinking about the Red Sox losing – as in the thread (and again, yes, this is YanksFanSoxFan, I know).
    Yesterday I complimented the Sox on winning the World Series. But as someone said, “You try to compliment the Red Sox on their amazing four game comeback in 2004 and you get slammed for it. Whattya gonna do?”
    That’s what I mean.
    John

    john April 11, 2006, 8:58 pm
  • You basically do my job for me, John. Just yesterday that attempt to “compliment the Red Sox” in fact seemed like a veiled swipe at Red Sox fans and a generalization that was frankly a bit insulting. That you can’t see this is basically my point; you proclaim yourself above the fray when you are as much a part of it as anyone. It’s no shame. I just wish you’d cop to it.

    SF April 11, 2006, 9:06 pm
  • I’ve been watching the Yankees since the Horace Clarke days, so I’ve seen both the Sox and Yanks through some good days and bad days. I watched Yaz in the World Series, I watched the 1978 playoff game, I watched the 86 World Series (I rooted for the Mets), and all the recent Sox / Yankees series in which they battled so evenly.
    In all that time I have never said “the Red Sox choked,” let alone “the Red Sox suck.” I don’t believe the Yankees choked in 2004, and I don’t understand those Sox fans who put so much energy into “the Yankees choked” and “the Yankees suck.” I know many Sox fans don’t feel that way, but obviously there are those who do.

    john April 11, 2006, 9:11 pm
  • But read both game threads and you won’t see many Yankee fan comments about how bad the Sox are
    That is because today (and this season) there hasn’t been much of anything to write about in those regards. If there is a stretch (and there will be, for sure) where the Sox play with all thumbs I am willing to go out on a limb and say that plenty of Yankees fans will happily remind us of it. Care to posit the opposite?

    SF April 11, 2006, 9:12 pm
  • Also, John:
    There is no comparison between Wang and Wake. Wake is a proven 15 game/year winner in the majors. He pitches for 200 innings/year and gives huge performances when it’s needed. When has Wang done any of those things? Schilling and Beckett are both looking great, as are Johnson and Moose.
    Please refrain from comparing the two. They’re on different planets.

    Brad April 11, 2006, 9:14 pm
  • I am with you on the “Yankees suck” thing. I think it’s moronic. But you are kidding yourself if you don’t think there is a massive contingent of Yankees fans (which you may not be a part of, but this is a bigger issue than just you and me) who like to remind us Sox fans of our history, and enjoyed reminding us of not only chokes against the Yankees but against other teams as well. For heck’s sake, that post yesterday in which you took Sox fans to task for mentioning the choke of the Yankees was by YF REMINDING US SOX FANS OF A CHOKE AGAINST A TEAM HE DOESN’T ROOT FOR. What part of that do you not find ironic?

    SF April 11, 2006, 9:15 pm
  • But read both game threads and you won’t see many Yankee fan comments about how bad the Sox are
    That is because today (and this season) there hasn’t been much of anything to write about in those regards. If there is a stretch (and there will be, for sure) where the Sox play with all thumbs I am willing to go out on a limb and say that plenty of Yankees fans will happily remind us of it. Care to posit the opposite?
    I’ve probably been to 10 games at Fenway. None of them were Yankee games. Every one of them had loud and sustained bouts of “Yankees suck.” The Super Bowl ended with “Yankees suck.”
    I was outside the Stadium for about half an hour before the game and an hour after the game today. Nowhere, from beginning to end, did I hear “the Red Sox suck.” I don’t think I’ve ever heard it at a stadium game that wasn’t a Sox game. There are plenty of drunken, obnoxious Yankee fans at the stadium, and they can be pretty boisterous when the Yankees play the Sox. But we simply care less about the Sox less, imho.

    john April 11, 2006, 9:22 pm
  • You didn’t answer the question. All you did was reiterate that a number of Red Sox fans idiotically yell “Yankees suck”, which I am with you on. Care to answer the questions I actually posed?

    SF April 11, 2006, 9:30 pm
  • Also, “Yankees Suck” isn’t a comment on how bad the Yankees are. It’s a stupid slogan that means little of anything.
    “Wang is a mediocrity who might not win 12 games this year” would qualify, however.

    SF April 11, 2006, 9:32 pm
  • Brad,
    Yes, let’s talk about baseball!
    There’s a history here. The question was not, Who’s had the better career? The question, Who will have the better year in 2006? Wang’s 26 and in his second year in the majors, so obviously he hasn’t had Wakefield’s career.
    Wang had the better ERA in 2005. Wakefield has had a slight decline in ERA every year for the past three years. There was also the lesser question of who will replace Mirabelli, since Varitek has done a bad job with Wakefield.
    Wakefield’s had one bad game and one good game. Wang’s had two mediocre games. The jury’s still out.
    Schilling has been great. Beckett has been great: everything the Sox could want. Let’s see if he keeps it up and how he does his second time through the league. I’m not saying he won’t keep it up, unfortunately.
    Johnson hasn’t been as good as Schilling, but it looks like he’ll be a lot better than last year, when he was good (we just expected more). Moose looks promising. The Yankees need some combination of Wang, Chacon, Wright and Pavano to come through, although despite the erratic Yankee offense so far, I expect them to do well and get to the playoffs. At that point you only need three good starters. But there’s a lot of baseball between now and then, including 19 (?) games against the Sox, so we’ll be seeing a lot of Schilling and Beckett, I think.
    John

    john April 11, 2006, 9:35 pm
  • C’Mon John. You attempt to put the Yankee contingent up on this throne above the rest of the sporting world. The mere fact that you are on this site says that not only do you, and most Yankee fans, spend an irregular amount of time thinking about the Red Sox, but it makes up a big part of your fanatacism. When the Red Sox do not perform well, the first thing I do is hope that the daily result was the same for the Yankees to ease my pain. I love my team, but not far behind that is my love for seeing the Yankees do poorly. It’s something that is ingrained within me. I’m not above saying that I when the Sox aren’t playing, I’m rooting for whomever is playing the Yankees. You should stop this feeble attempt at putting the ruthless, drunken, swearing, rude fans at Yankee Stadium in a higer regard than those at the Fens. We’re all rooting for the same thing here, and when it’s not our team’s win, it’s the other one’s loss.
    PS – I once saw a kid with his father in Yankee Stadium with a Sox cap on – he must have been around 10 or so years old. They took his hat, poured beer on it, spit on it and threw it at his fater before being thrown out. Now, I’ve seen nearly the same at the Fens, so I’m not saying they’re any better – but under no circumstances are they any worse.

    Brad April 11, 2006, 9:38 pm
  • Well said, John. But in the end, I think we will see Wang getting in trouble a lot and ending up being about what he’s always been, and Beckett is easily the best in the whole group.

    Brad April 11, 2006, 9:41 pm
  • Real question: Which questions? (The “ranting and raving” referred to all the anti-Yankee comments in the discussion of a Red Sox – Blue Jays game.)
    I don’t think you want to bring YF into this. Anyone can see he is a whole lot nicer to Sox fans than you are to Yankee fans. Ditto for Nick YF. Maybe he does like to watch the Sox choke, he’d have to answer that, but his comment seemed like a joke.

    john April 11, 2006, 9:41 pm
  • John, don’t project. I am only not nice to you.

    SF April 11, 2006, 9:42 pm
  • PS – How many inning did Wang throw in 2005? I mean if we’re going to compare him to Wakefield, at least some of the numbers thrown should match up. Wakefield would have had much better numbers if he could have taken two monts off in the middle of the season, or maybe just erase those games?

    Brad April 11, 2006, 9:44 pm
  • It’s like talking to a wall. Let me explain, nicely.
    1. YF put up something about the Red Sox choking, a humorous post.
    2. About choking against the Mets.
    3. And then referred to choking against the Yankees.
    4. I respond with a light quip about the Yankees choking against the Red Sox.
    5. You take me to task for making it all about the Yankees choking and not the Red Sox winning.
    What the heck am I missing here?

    SF April 11, 2006, 9:45 pm
  • edit: months

    Brad April 11, 2006, 9:45 pm
  • John is fighting two battles here – I’ll step aside.

    Brad April 11, 2006, 9:46 pm
  • I am trying to get through to my mom to ask her how many “Yankees suck” cheers she started today. Over/under set at 7.

    SF April 11, 2006, 9:47 pm
  • I’ll take the under on that one.

    Brad April 11, 2006, 9:49 pm
  • You don’t know my mom.

    SF April 11, 2006, 9:51 pm
  • Ha. If only you knew how many times I’ve said that about my mom in a Red Sox conversation.

    Brad April 11, 2006, 9:52 pm
  • Anyhow, I’m outa here. John clearly has no more argument left in him tonight, and I wanna watch the highlights from the game today. Another day tomorrow, and our first look at the disgruntled Wells. Hopefully, he pitches for his trade he so desires. If I remember correctly, he really had the Jays number last year, with the exception of the game that got him suspended. Sleep well, with thoughts of Beckett’s Cy Young trophy dancing through your head.

    Brad April 11, 2006, 10:02 pm
  • And the unders have it. Not only did my Mom not start any “Yankees suck” cheers, but neither she nor my Dad heard a single one throughout their time at, around, inside, or outside Fenway. So there you have it.

    SF April 11, 2006, 10:20 pm
  • “Sox fans always seemed to be concerned with what the Yankees are doing, and it tends to be more of a one way obsession. I think it’s true that we care more about the Yankees than they care about the Sox. Even after the magic of 2004.” – Tom Caron-NESN staff member
    http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/caron/12_29_05/

    whatever April 11, 2006, 10:38 pm
  • Psssst…hey SF, I’m going to let you in on a little secret…just because you say it doesn’t make it so.

    whatever April 11, 2006, 10:40 pm
  • It’s real simple:
    Red Sox: 6-1, 1st place
    Yankess: 3-4, 3rd Place, 3 games out

    Hudson April 11, 2006, 10:50 pm
  • In my experience, Yankees fans are completely obsessed with themselves. They LOVE how obsessed Sox fans are with their team, and love themselves for maintaining a nonchalant coolness amidst the ranting of the philistines. Sadly, we’ve all seen the cracks in the facade and recognize the unintentional humor in it all.
    Please don’t stop, Yanks fans. We love it.

    airk April 11, 2006, 10:54 pm
  • John, you made some real good thoughtful points here today, nothing outrageous, nothing insulting.
    Don’t worry about what SF says. He seems to suffer some convenient bouts of dyslexia when someone posts something he, as a Sox fan, doesn’t care for, and which may result in some rather rude, assholish rebuttals as evidenced here today.
    Opening day at the stadium. Nice. I’m envious. The Stadium must have been rocking when Jeter bailed us out in eighth with that 3 run shot.

    whatever April 11, 2006, 11:05 pm
  • SF –
    Let’s back up.
    I said, “Sox fans can rant and rave, but we love our guys” (meaning “Sox fans may rant and rave, but…”).
    You think Sox fans never rant or rave? You think this is a terrible thing to say? Unlike the times, for example, when you’ve told me I’ve got my head up my ass and I know nothing about baseball?
    ???
    John

    john April 11, 2006, 11:24 pm
  • I’m with airk. I’m eating up all this Yankee-fan insecurity and delusion. Priceless. They’re trying to rile us up with their old tricks, and it’s not working. Guys, are you really so low on material that you’re drilling into the NESN archives to find dirt?!? Replace NESN with YES, and it sounds like something a pre-2004 Red Sox fan would do. Pathetic.
    Speaking of which… Whatever, here’s a little secret for you. Nobody gives a rat’s ass what Tom Caron thinks. You changed exactly 0 minds with that post. Keep trying, though. It’s cute.
    As for John, he lost me when he claimed the Yankees are “our guys,” as if the Yanks are a model homegrown franchise. Yeah, who could ever forget when A-Rod, Sheff, Matsui and Giambi were lighting it up together in Columbus, with Moose and the Big Unit at their side. Those were the days. And what an achievement it was to maintain such continuity from last year and the year before! After all, who wouldn’t want to hold together a roster full of the most gutless choke-artists of all-time? That assertion was enough to invalidate the rest of what John had to say… how can you take someone seriously after reading that?

    pstar April 12, 2006, 1:01 am
  • The Sox thread only had more comments because Sox fans don’t have jobs. And they’re drunks, too. All of them I tells ya!

    tom yf April 12, 2006, 2:02 am
  • Red Sox fans’ maturity level has taken a severe nose dive in this blog.

    bj April 12, 2006, 7:10 am
  • you think Sox fans never rant or rave?
    The wall continues to listen intently. Yes, we rant and rave. It’s the framing of your comments that is off. You continue to post as if you are somehow immune to the rivalry. That you only care about what the Sox do if it’s the playoffs or if the Yankees have already done their thing. And in the process, you make it sound as if us Sox fans care more about the Yankees than about our own team, which I am guessing you know to be utterly false: one team comes first, that’s it. Another team does come second. Same for you, I am willing to wager (figuratively – I don’t bet). As someone pointed out, you seem to do much of your work at this site. Let’s just agree to leave it at that.

    SF April 12, 2006, 7:27 am
  • SF, John just made an observation about the site that is clearly true just from looking over the threads. Your responses above sort of prove that he hit a nerve.

    bj April 12, 2006, 8:02 am
  • See, this is how it works with a lot of you guys. I get it. First you needle us Sox fans, then when we fight back or try to explain that you might be misobserving we get accused of being “sensitive” or you say that you “hit a nerve”. It’s a nice ploy. Are you guys GOP goons or something?

    SF April 12, 2006, 8:51 am
  • BJ:
    The thread was a post-mortem, and the first thing John posts is that Sox fans can “rant and rave” (where, and about what, at that point?!) and then makes a totally baseless and crass generalization about what were non–existent “Yankees Suck” cheers at Fenway (corroborated by my Mom and Dad, who weren’t in the bleachers admittedly). So where do you get off?

    SF April 12, 2006, 9:00 am
  • Geez SF, the double standard here is awesome. And it requires some real paranoia on your part.
    You’ve said quite a bit that you enjoy needling the Yankees and Yankee fans (I remember one quote that said something like “What’s a day without…” after another lame “joke” about A-Rod). And you frequently go fishing to see if you can get a rise out of Yankee fans, like in your WINS post yesterday (you judge Yankee fans by a crappy radio station but disavow WEEI).
    But I’m not allowed to say, Sox fans can rant and rave, because you’ve read all sorts of things into it that aren’t there.
    Let’s look at the facts. The “first thing I posted” was that your suggestion that the Sox have the better pitching this year is belayed by the fact that the Yanks have the better ERA, not that Sox fans can rant and rave.
    And as I’ve explained, what I meant was that in reading the game threads I was struck by the way some Sox fans here watching their home opener feel the need to knock the Yankees in a different game. You think there was some hyperbole in what I said? Gee, shoot me. Because you’re always the model of dispassionate politeness.
    There has also, as you know, been a lot of talk over the years about how the Yankees are a team of hired mercenaries. And there was talk here last year about how the Yanks actually had more home-grown guys than the Sox, with Manny, Papi, Schilling, Foulke, etc. My point, which really is not that hard to get but which you completely missed is this: it’s the Sox who brought in all the new guys this year. Sheffield, Giambi, Matsui, A-Rod and Johnson all came from elsewhere, but we’ve now been through the wars with them, and they seem like “our guys.” Don’t tell me you can’t understand that, because you’ve got the same thing with Manny and Papi — who is more of a Red Sock than Papi?
    But in your usual pugnacious way, SF, you misinterpreted what I said by projecting your own issues on to the post and you came out swinging — while saying it’s Yankee fans who are obnoxious. Look in the mirror big guy.
    Last but not least: If there were no Yankees Suck cheers out on Yawkey Way after the game yesterday, congratulations Sox fans. Maybe 2004 really did make a difference.

    john April 12, 2006, 9:30 am
  • No double standard, John. I love needling Yankees fans. And I am susceptible to the needling myself. I get it. But you don’t, sometimes. Much of this started with a post that YF put up about the silly Nintendo reenactment of the Sox-Mets ’86 series and Bucky Dent, which was hysterical. And I posted back about the Yankees-Sox choke, comeback, whatever you want to call it. And you were incapable of posting something without accusing us Sox fans of being unable to appreciate what our team did. That’s the kind of stuff that riles me. Not that you needle us Sox fans, but that you seem to pull stuff out of nowhere to make it seem like we are different than we are, or that we suffer from some syndrome of your own design or desire.

    SF April 12, 2006, 10:09 am
  • pstar,
    Hey man, the truth hurts, huh? Especially when it comes out of the mouth of one of your NESN homeboys.
    SF, GOP goons?! Now THAT is a low blow.
    Would love to stay for that Yankfest on the other thread, but, gotta get back to work.

    whatever April 12, 2006, 1:49 pm

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