Though I didn’t think Papelbon should have been the closer before, multiple viewings of this video convinced me. This embarrasses me greatly.
by SF on March 24, 2007 at 10:22 pm in
General Red Sox · 56 comments
“From the bullpen … he emerges … to strike down … anyone in his way”
For a second there, I thought this was a tribute to the amazing closing abilities of Cthulu.
Paul SF March 24, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Cthulu!? Thats a name from the past… oh, the memories!
mattymatty March 24, 2007 at 11:21 pm
I would rather face Cthulhu in a save situation than Papelbon any day
Dionysus - SF March 24, 2007 at 11:30 pm
Evidently, he is coming for me.
Honestly, they couldn’t have even spliced in footage of his pitching?
Well, NESN only broadcasts every pitch of every game, so I guess said footage would be hard to come by.
Kazz March 25, 2007 at 1:19 am
dc March 25, 2007 at 8:17 am
I wonder if they are ALLOWED to Kazz. That’d be rebroadcasting, which is generally restricted by the MLB. Maybe.. still images.. are a lesser crime or something.
There are NO live images of him pitchign anywhere on youtube. Some of him warmign up in the bullpen taken with someones video camera, but thats it.
I suppose it might be different if someone recorded him pitchign wiht their own camera.. but who has a camera with powerful/clear enough zoom?
Dionysus March 25, 2007 at 8:22 am
As though anybody on Youtube respects copyright.
People use licensed music and show clips of material from TV all the time. I know MLB is specific about disallowing rebroadcasting, but that doesn’t mean they’re actually going to throw the book at a 90 second video of Papelbon striking people out.
And even if they did, remember when Viacom took all of the videos with stuff from their TV networks down? A lot of that stuff has been re-uploaded already.
Kazz March 25, 2007 at 8:39 am
I heard on xm that between June 3 and the end of the season, Paple blew more saves than any full-time closer in the AL – no big surprise that little blip wasn’t in the vid.
Andrews March 25, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow Andrews meow meow.
Devine March 25, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Yeah, damn those youtube fanboys making for not telling the whole story…biased jerks.
desturbd1 March 25, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Ugh…that ‘making’ should not have been in there.
desturbd1 March 25, 2007 at 1:33 pm
Yeah, I’m with Andrews. This kid sucks.
Brad March 25, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Paps was 16 for 21 from June forward. The Sox won four of the five games that he blew saves in, partly because in four of the blown saves Papelbon only gave up one run. This is a buried but important statistic: in only one appearance during the entire year did JP give up more than one run. For comparison’s sake Rivera had four games in which he allowed 2 runs, Todd Jones had six games in which he gave up 2+ (including two four-runners) and K-Rod had three games of the 2+ run variety.
So as a closer, if your’e gonna blow a save, at the very least keep the game tied, right?
SF March 25, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Karstens is awesome today.
Brad March 25, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Take it easy Brad. Wise guy.
What is the draft order Brad?
Triskaidekaphobia March 25, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Trisk, I’m not sure. I think they assign an order just before the draft.
Hey I looked over the rules and stuff, but I’m not sure how the draft works. Are we going to be able to pick as we go, or are they going to take the picks directly from the pre-draft order we’re able to set up? I’m just curious if I really need to go throught that order with a fine toothed comb to set up my draft, or will I be able to play with it as we go?
Brad March 25, 2007 at 2:13 pm
also, since i can’t seem to find anyone who’s willing to take that last spot, it appears I will have to draft for yet another team, so if I need to set up an inverted pre-draft list (worst to first) for those teams, I should probably do so now.
Brad March 25, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Facts get you guys all worked up, or so it seems…
Andrews March 25, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Nope, they don’t. Your “facts” made me dig a little deeper, and I understood, having reviewed the facts, that your dig at Papelbon was somewhat insubstantial, even as you made out what you cited to seem like a very proud discovery.
SF March 25, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Andrews…what SF said. Are you really gonna try to claim a reliever who gave up several 1-run saves is bad? My goodness.
Devine March 25, 2007 at 2:44 pm
For the fantasy-leaguers…I did an ESPN mock draft thing last night because I’ve never done an ESPN league myself. It won’t just automatically select from your pre-draft; the pre-draft is designed to make sorting through players easier for you come draft day. You basically get one big list on the left of all the players in the league, which you can search through/sort to look at specific stats. On the right is your pre-draft list, ordered by your rankings. You can filter both lists to look at specific positions, but only the one on the left can sort by specific stats. There’s also a notepad type place on the bottom right where you can drag players’ names to keep then in mind for later.
The actual draft button is in the top right; when you select a player, his name comes up next to the button and you have to press it to make your pick; when it’s your turn, at least. If you wait too long it’ll autopick the next highest-ranked player available on your list. So to answer your questions…it’s not totally necessary to put a ton of time into making your list, unless you’re worried about not being able to think on the fly. (It does get tough in the mid-late rounds) As for the two fake teams…I think you can probably just scroll all the way to the bottom on the right-hand list of players and draft bottom-up.
Oh…and draft order is random, I think the order might be posted an hour before the draft but I’m not sure.
desturbd1 March 25, 2007 at 3:01 pm
If I remember correctly, a few of Papelbon’s “blown saves” were from Tito bringing him in with a guy on 3rd and 1 out.
You going to seriously fault a guy for giving up a lazy fly ball or a grounder that scores an inherited man from 3rd?
Blown saves (as well as saves themselves) are an overrated stat.
Steve March 25, 2007 at 4:16 pm
” Are you really gonna try to claim a reliever who gave up several 1-run saves is bad?”
SF, why the quotation marks? It’s a stat, not a dig, and it led to you digging up some interesting information. Devine, a stat does not constitute an opinion. I was quite surprised when I heard that one; would have never thought that he was the leader in blown saves over the last 2/3 of the season
“f I remember correctly, a few of Papelbon’s “blown saves” were from Tito bringing him in with a guy on 3rd and 1 out”
And if I remember correctly that was the exact scenario that led to one of Mo’s blown saves in the ’04 ALCS, which many sf’s on this site refer to quite often.
Anonymous March 25, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Andrews March 25, 2007 at 4:49 pm
’04 ALCS =/= some regular season 2006 game in which the team is struggling so bad the closer (who was the only bright spot) needed to be ridden out that badly all the time.
Love how you’re getting defensive even though you brought this whole thing on yourself with the “blown saves” quip, which you obviously did mean as a dig until it blew up in your face.
Steve March 25, 2007 at 5:04 pm
I used “facts” in quotations for effect. Certainly you cited a fact, but the fact was devoid of any context, and therefore deceptive and for the purposes of denigration, not constructive criticism. Please don’t try to tell us you stated that “fact” (there I go again!) for the purposes of enlightenment.
For the record, constructive criticism is never unacceptable, no matter the uniform.
SF March 25, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Brad March 25, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Dude, you’re delusional. Nothing “blew up in my face”. You’re the one who’s getting defensive – you see a simple statement of an interesting stat as a “quip” and a “dig”. Don’t presume to tell me what my motivations are, and I’ll extend you the same courtesy.
And a blown save because of a fly ball with a runner on third and less than two out is the same “overated” stat, no matter when the game is played. You can’t have it both ways.
While I agree that Paple was overused last year, 68 IP hardly breaks any records; but again, I’m not trying to take anything away from the fantastic year the guy had.
Andrews March 25, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Get off your high horse, SF. While we may debate whether or not the blown save is an overated stat ( I’m inclined to agree), it does mean that the pitcher FAILED to nail down a win, no matter if his team ends up with the victory anyway.
Andrews March 25, 2007 at 5:47 pm
“For the record, constructive criticism is never unacceptable, no matter the uniform.”
Andrews March 25, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Andrews don’t let Steve get to you, he himself loves to make arguments based on nothing factual only his unbiased (said with tongue in cheek) opinion.
SF, I wonder what the breakdown looks like when you examine how many saves of Mo’s vs. Pap’s were more then one inning. If the numbers are as I think they are, that could contribute to the numbers that you provided above. Either way both teams should feel very fortunate to have two guys who really know how to close out games and leave it at that. It’s not like we are arguing Mo vs. Brad Lidge or Pap’s vs. Brian Fuentes. Both teams have quite the advantage over most.
Triskaidekaphobia March 25, 2007 at 6:02 pm
I’m sorry, I’m a fan of Papelbon and all and think the closer move makes some sense… but that video told me absolutely nothin’. My life is 93 seconds shorter, though.
Hudson March 25, 2007 at 6:07 pm
Papelbon doesn’t suck, but that music does.
john March 25, 2007 at 6:32 pm
You’re laughing at the wrong SF. For the record, I’ve been critical of the Drew signing, the Lugo signing, the move of Papelbon to the bullpen, Theo’s ability to put together a relief corps, David Ortiz for crapping on the MVP possibly going to Jeter, and all sorts of other things Sox. I am a Soxfan, but I am not reflexively biased.
SF March 25, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Papelbon made 20 appearances of 1.1+ innings. These involved 10 saves, all six of his blown saves, 3 wins, and 5 losses.
Rivera made 20 appearances of 1.1+ innings as well. These involved 8 saves, 2 of his three blown saves, 4 wins, and 5 losses.
SF March 25, 2007 at 7:15 pm
I appreciate your ability to see things from a relatively rational POV – rare for this site, if truth be told – myself among the offenders.
Please don’t take this the wrong way – tat statement was so pompous it did induce a hearty chuckle…
Andrews March 25, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Andrews March 25, 2007 at 7:46 pm
Thanks SF interesting. So the key to getting to Paps seems to be get him in there for more then 1. Those for the numbers.
Triskaidekaphobia March 25, 2007 at 8:29 pm
So the key to getting to Paps seems to be get him in there for more then 1.
My guess is that this is true about all closers, even Rivera (to a far lesser degree, of course).
SF March 25, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Also, Trisk, the thing to know is the situations in which the guys came in which forced them to go more than 1 inning. In other words, I woud wager that the blown save is far more likely in a 1+ inning situation because the closer is coming in with 1 or 2 outs in the eighth and with men on base. Full two inning saves are more rare – Rivera made something of a cottage industry of this but he’s a unique pitcher. Blown saves are, I bet, far more likely in 1+ inning situations simply because the pitchers are entering jams, not starting innings with a clean slate. It’s why the blown save is a tough stat to throw out there without more information.
SF March 25, 2007 at 8:40 pm
OH come on John! That’s a great song!
Brad March 25, 2007 at 8:56 pm
“I used “facts” in quotations for effect. Certainly you cited a fact, but the fact was devoid of any context, and therefore deceptive and for the purposes of denigration, not constructive criticism. Please don’t try to tell us you stated that “fact” (there I go again!) for the purposes of enlightenment.”
^ spoken for truth.
Yankee fan comes into a topic about Papelbon with nothing to say except a little excerpt about his blown saves with absolutely no explanation behind it. Yeah, I’m sure it wasn’t meant as a “dig”, though. It’s always easy to backtrack after the real facts come out.
If only you could see my eyes rolling.
Steve March 25, 2007 at 10:14 pm
“I heard on xm that between June 3 and the end of the season, Paple blew more saves than any full-time closer in the AL”
You heard wrong, Andrew. Street had 8 blown saves over that period. Burgos had 7. Papelbon had the same amount as JJ Putz, with 6.
Tyrel SF March 26, 2007 at 2:51 am
Tyrel SF March 26, 2007 at 2:52 am
I didn’t hear wrong, I misquoted. It should have read “From 6/3 until the time he went down with the injury, Paplebon had the most blown saves of any full time closer in the AL”
Andrews March 26, 2007 at 9:09 am
don’t be getting all sensitive steve…sox fans bash jeter [and others] without cause or facts all the time…papelbon is a great closer period, duh, and probably would have been a great starter if the sox mgmt hadn’t panicked…but a blown save is a blown save…you can rationalize the circumstances or the importance of the stat all you want, but the bottom line is that closers are paid to deliver the victory regardless of the circumstances…having said that he had a great year, and i think he’ll have another great season…he’s got the right stuff…
dc March 26, 2007 at 9:56 am
I think we should vote on a rule that only allows Yankee fans to comment on Yankee issues, all in favor say…..This way sensitive Sox fans like Steve don’t get their feelings hurt.
Triskaidekaphobia March 26, 2007 at 10:09 am
Someone trade me something for JETER! NOW! It’s infecting my team!
Brad March 26, 2007 at 10:39 am
You can have Tulo!
Triskaidekaphobia March 26, 2007 at 10:43 am
I’ve got Jhonny Peralta for you, Brad…
Paul SF March 26, 2007 at 10:47 am
make it Manny, you have deal!
Anonymous March 26, 2007 at 10:56 am
Paul SF March 26, 2007 at 10:58 am
Anonymous March 26, 2007 at 11:01 am
I’m actually trying to move him for Reyes as we speak!
Brad March 26, 2007 at 11:03 am
Maybe I’m not a good trader, but I can’t find anyone I really want to trade with. Lots of players I want, but no one I’m really all that eager to give up… Just a state of vaguely unhappy malaise.
Paul SF March 26, 2007 at 11:08 am
Wild Thing, it’s better.
JT March 26, 2007 at 12:57 pm
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