(C) All of the Above
So Red Sox fans are classless for booing a former player; that went to a rival for the money, don’t forget that, that’s what is important here, it’s totally cool to boo your current ACE of your AL MVP infielder, during a game; that is class defined.
I’m so glad we have that cleared up.
That’s right, Lockland — if we carefully learn from these lessons — we Sox Fans, too, can someday have our very own “aura and mystique”.
For lord’s sake, as requested in the game thread, can we just drop the “classless fans” meme. You go to a game, you plunk down your cash, you’re paying for the entertainment, for the right to boo whomever you damn well please. That’s how the system works. That’s how money is made. It’s perfectly fine. You wanna boo the guys making more cash than you’ll see in your lifetime after a horrible performance. Fair enough. When they take the big money, that’s what comes with it. You wanna sit on your hands, or even clap a bit of encouragement when one of those fellahs saunters off the field, or when an erstwhile hero, now departed for brighter shores, returns home? You’re within your rights, too. Let’s just move on from this.
YF – Sorry and I will honor your request and let it rest from now on, but considering the amount of crap Sox fans got from Yankee fans, Torre, the media, etc., for booing Damon, I think after last night’s display people have to expect some good natured ribbing back at Yankee fans.
For the record, I didn’t support booing Damon, but I defended a fan’s right to.
Case closed, I’m done with it.
Case closed, I’m done with it.
Well, A) is provable (I mean cmon, look at RJ; he’s not a pretty man), whereas B) puts me in a Halloween state of mind so I guess I will pick A)
One thing I thought of when Randy seemed to be pitching FAR outside to Papi, is that Torre might have made it clear to Randy that any pitches that were too close would not be tolerated – as a result of all the talk from the Post article. Matched with all those other problems he was having with his control, perhaps that’s why he walked Papi and didn’t pitch close.
Maybe the “Droppy Papi” thing backfired?
I think a), since even without A-Rod’s boo-boos, RJ would have still found a way to put us in too much of a hole.
As for booing – it seems like a very NY thing to do. I’ve been at Knicks games where 8 year old girls singing at half-time have been booed because they couldn’t hold a high note. Tough town. Deal with it.
Pitching the Sox a little tighter might be exactly what’s needed to make their hitters a little less comfortable at the plate tonight–oh, never mind. Moose on the mound.
Higher $ result in higher standards. You don’t like it, go to KC. They accept losing there or they are at least accustomed to it.
I love how the Tea-tossers rip on Moose. Hope that fires him up. Time to serve Curt some lunch.
Sam: If they hit the friggin’ note, no problem, right? Anyway, the Knicks, right now, are DEAD TO ME. Isaih makes George look like Billy Beane, Theo Epstein, Bill James, Bill Gates, and Santa, combined. So just don’t go there.
YF, I’m of mixed feelings about the Knicks. The team is awful, run by incompetents (I blame Dolan even more than Zeke for this run of bad moves. Layden was as bad as Thomas. The common denominator is Jimmy D.) and yet I root for the laundry. Is it not fickle of us to turn our backs on a team just because it sucks?
It is fickle, yes, Nick. And I don’t agree with it – but again, it’s a fan’s prerogative: if you put out a team that sucks, I refuse to pay (minimum) $45 to go watch them, or to add to the viewing figures of your tv network.
The Knicks are by far and away the worst franchise in US sports. Not even the Royals can compete. To have the highest payroll by far, and to end with the second-worse record, just ahead of an expansion team, is a situation that should result in the firing of all the coaching staff, the GM, and the players. It’s despicable.
Whatever you say about the Yanks, at least they’re competitive for all that money. And at least A-Rod, for all his other faults, plays hard every game. Compare to Marbury, S.
I’m going to go have a shower now…yuk.
And YF – yes, if people perform properly, they don’t get booed. Simple as that.
Ha- that is fucking hilarious!
Wait…actually that dosen’t make any sense at all. Are you making fun of Boston fans for stanfing up against the British empire by carrying out the Boston Tea Party? That was something to be ashamed of? I gotta say, Nate, your insults could use some work… (I understand though- you did have a long night last night).
I’ve been around some dreadful teams (grew up in Tampa rooting for the John McKay Era Bucs) and now live in L.A. (where until this year, the Clippers were a joke), but I have to agree with YF: the Knicks are far and away the worst franchise in sports, maybe the worst franchise I’ve ever seen. The Clips were awful because they never spent enough. The Boss spends a fortune but fields an All-Star team every night. The Knicks are the worst of both worlds: they spend like the Boss, and have a CBA caliber team to show for it. And speaking of the CBA, remember that it was Isiah who ran that league into the ground, much as he is doing to a once-great franchise. A complete and utter imbecile.
Isiah’s incompetent but you have to view Dolan as the culprit. The salary cap situation is the result of his willingness to sign on crap talent at a premium rate. Eisley, Shandond? That wasn’t Thomas’s work. He didn’t give $100 million to an aging shooting guard with knee issues (unintentional comp to Randy duly noted). He arrived here and he’s been utterly crappy, but the problems start and end with Dolan who gives 2 shits about the fan and is a raving moron. As long as he runs things, this team is doomed.
Basketball is the focus of this site today because the baseball season took a weird turn last night.
How about those Clippers!
I can understand why Yankee fans want to talk basketball instead of baseball this morning. ;^)
Meanwhile, back in the Major Leagues, we’ve got Curt v. Mike on tap — another beaut.
This Boston fan worries that the Sox bats may go cold after last night’s laugher.
On the other hand, I have a lot of confidence in Schilling to hold the Yankees down… As long as Francona doesn’t put another of his “let’s let Curt throw 250 pitches” routines. He needs to be quick with the hook if Schill starts showing signs of flagging in the later innings. The pattern has been: Brilliant through 5, risk of gopher balls in the 6th-7th. As far as that pen, it ought to be Timlin-Foulke-Papelbon in any close game, with the caveat that Timlin ideally should be brought in with the bases clear. Better to insert him at the start of an inning than to wait for Schilling to put a couple on.
What else? Though Mussina is having a brilliant year I’d like to think that this run has to come to an end sooner or later, and the timing is right for him to start reverting to the mean.
Another ARod error would be nice, too.
The Knicks and the Boston Bruins are tight for “worst franchise in sports”. I could write several paragraphs about how the Bruins can “outworse” the Knicks, but frankly I don’t want to. They, like the Knicks to YF, are dead to me. It’s a very sad thing, this.
Just because we’re talking about “worst franchises”, I have to throw the Buffalo Bills out there for myself. Perhaps not to the level of the Knicks or Bruins just yet — but by god, are we trying…
Dolan is a complete shmo. With Zeke, it’s like Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dumber. But they, as stated, are DEAD TO ME. And it ain’t fair-weatherness. I stuck through some bad, bad years. The pre-twin-towers Bill Cartwright years. The Ken “The Animal” Bannister years. The Kenny “Sky” Walker years. The, perrish the memory, Pat Cummings era. This, however, is beyond any of that, and far worse. There is no bright spot, and no future. No Earnie The Attorney. No Rory Sparrow. (Most beautiful name in sports history?) I don’t know enough about the Bruins to compare, but I respect SF enough not to disparage his allegiances.
I will say this. Basketball is not baseball. I will not foresake my Yankees, and no matter what. I did not, in the darkest, darkest years of the late 80s early 90s, when the owner was also a disaster, and management was awful, top down. But baseball is different than hoops, at least for me, to say nothing of hockey.
I’m going to name my first son Rory Sparrow . YF and SF know that my last name will probably ruin the beauty of the sobriquette.
I started following them during the Cartright-Ewing years, so they were on the up and up. This certainly feels like a long run of misery. The Celtics don’t look much better either, although I’ve heard decent things about Ainge’s intelligence. Just haven’t seen any results.
The Celtics have a good core of youngsters – West, Gomes, Green and Jefferson. That’s a playoff team right there, and they’re all 23 or under. The Knicks are screwed until – a the earliest – 2009 because of all the wacky contracts that they have. Absolutely no point rooting for that team until then.
As for tonight – I have to respectfully disagree with Hudson. Moose has done what I’m convinced Randy is incapable of: he’s changed his pitching to adapt to aging. His change up is much slower these days, making his fastball look faster and bringing greater variation. I think that this New Moose is here to stay. He probably won’t stay on a 5-1 pace – who does? – but I reckon he’s good for 16-20 wins this year and will be our ace.
Meanwhile, Alex Belth, on Bronx Banter points to items that pertain to the original content of this thread:
On Baseball Musings, Dave Pinto suggests the problem with Randy is his right shoulder, injured early this year, which kept him from bringing his glove hand in to his chest and consequently left his shoulder flying open. If true, perhaps a stint on the DL is all that’s necessary for us to get the good Unit back. And Pavano appears ready to step in, so….
On Was Watching, Steve Lombardi charts A-Rod vs. the Sox and finds, lo-and-behold, that A-Rod actually hits the Sox pretty damn well–when not in Fenway. But that he has ALWAYS hit poorly in Fenway. And so it is not so much a “choke” issue when he plays against the Sox, as that Fenway is just not a good place for him to hit, period, for some physical reason.
I’m not sure i’m actually buying Lombardi’s argument–though I don’t believe the “A-Rod chokes at Fenway” argument either. A-Rod’s various samples at Fenway are small enough that the dip in his performance there, and especially since he’s been a Yankee, may just be standard deviation. A-Rod’s streaky. It’s the nature of his swing. When he’s scuffling and then runs into a nemesis, it’s easy to say, “It’s the Nemesis!” Which is not to say he doesn’t press, exacerbating/prolonging the trough. But it’s hard to luck at the numbers and come to any definitive conclusion.
the Bruins are somewhat like the Knicks in terms of incompetence, but with one huge difference: they are owned by someone from Buffalo who couldn’t care less about the success of the team on the ice, and who has no interest in spending any money to improve the team, since he owns the building that the team plays in and most of the real estate around it. He has long-term tenants, so it doesn’t really matter how the team does. Dolan, though ludicrously incompetent, is at least a local and not a cheapskate local; he seems to me just plain stupid.
In Boston, Jeremy Jacobs has, in order to maximize profitability (and they are very profitable, certainly his prerogative to do this), employed a very simple strategy: dump all good players as soon as they get expensive, and sign formerly talented players when they are just about done with their careers because they have a recognizable name. What this has done is created a team that has seems to have a few exciting young players each year that is stillborn: the players will never develop enough to be mature within the Bruins system – they are shipped off right as they blossom, and intentionally so. They are an atrocious organization owned by someone who could not care less about his patrons or his product. I think Dolan cares, I just think he’s completely incapable of doing the job.
SF – that really sucks. Agree with you about Dolan.
I pick A.
Even without the three errors, the Sox still scored eight earned runs. The only thing the errors did was force Torre to hook Johnson earlier. He obviously was at least equal to Small last night, so I doubt the damage would have been any less.
It is amusing how all it takes for Steinbrenner to revert to form is a May loss to the Red Sox. An embarrassing loss, sure, but it’s still only the second game of 19. He’s a funny guy.
No disrespect by the term “Tea-tossers”. Just saw an old picture of me and pops from back in the day doing the tourist thing up there. Now if I would have said teetotalers, THAT would have been malicious.
While I enjoy the hand-wringing I see online and in my office, the Yankees can still win this series and it will be quite awhile before the season series is decided (and who knows if it will mean anything at that point?). Even though I was at last night’s game and basked in the glow while I could, I’m not so delusional as to believe one close victory and one blowout mean anything in the context of the season series or the standings in the division.
Devine, the lone voice of reason, and it only took around 550 posts to find it.
Teatossers is right. You’d all be enjoying and discussing the fair game of cricket if it wasn’t for those damned Bostonians!
Please. If it were left to the Beantowners, we’d still be playing “The Massachussets Game.” Thank god for the Knickerbockers. And I don’t mean the ones who play basketball–they, as previously noted, are DEAD TO ME.
why is it that sox fans have been taking a pounding all week for being classless, but now yankee fan acts the same way and the topic becomes taboo? i’ll not address it again as requested but i would like to get these thoughts off my chest;
-my father has booed yankee players for 60 years. no johnny come lately is gonna change how i feel about players on that team.
-as torre and anyone with a mouth said, “he played hard everyday for them, gave them everything he had….deserved better.” didn’t he get paid very well to do that? in johnnys world cash=respect. the sox respected him handsomely over 4 years.
if as a yankee fan, you feel a-rod gives you 100% all the time, by your own standards you should never boo him. boo rj all you like, he’s quit on your team. you can never explain booing jeter.
i know the yf’s on this site are smarter fans than the ones who booed last nite. it just sucks that in the national media sox fans have been labeled classless, and we’re supposed to just accept that.
goodnite to the class war
Sam, I just wish it were that simple today…unless…can we collectively toss DC into the harbor?
YF, the least you could do is spell “Massachusetts” correctly.
And Nick, come on, that’s an unfair dig at lots of Yankees fans and Sox fans. Most of the people at this site of both ilks understand last night was just one game (to bring up the cliche of all cliches).
SF-Rod (and welcome back, btw): There’s no double-standard. Look through last week’s threads and you’ll find me begging, BEGGING, everyone to move on from this meme, and defending the rights of Sox fans to boo whomever they darn well please, but Johnny Damon in particular. On this site, SF is the one who argued for a standing O for Damon in Boston.
“And Nick, come on, that’s an unfair dig at lots of Yankees fans and Sox fans.”
true, just having fun.
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