I Got Nothin’: Rays-Sox Gamer XV

Random, entirely meaningless stat: Jon Lester has the seventh-longest active streak of 90+ pitch games in baseball, with 23. He’s well past the Retrosheet record previously set by Tim Hudson (18 in 1999). Only two Sox rookies have started their careers with as many as five 90+ pitch starts in a row — Aaron Sele (5) and Daisuke Matsuzaka (9).

What does it mean? Well, nothing, really. He threw 95 pitches and couldn’t make it out of the fourth in a loss to the Yankees last August. He threw 100 pitches in eight one-hit innings against the Royals last July. But it’s kinda cool that a kid whose career was interrupted by cancer has been able to otherwise reel off a bunch of 90-pitch outings. Still, he’s got a ways to go before matching Roger Clemens’ club/Retrosheet record of 63 (1991-93).

Lester goes for 24 tonight against Tampa, which must still be shell-shocked from somehow blowing an 8-1 lead to go down 16-9 (first time ever, ESPN tells us, that the Sox went from seven down to seven up in the same game. That they did it in three innings is even more remarkable). Then again, this is Tampa. They and Baltimore have seen just about everything.

Tonight, it’s Edwin Jackson for the D-Rays, who since somehow holding Boston to one run in six innings Aug. 22 has given up 17 runs in 15 innings. He’s trying to avoid losing his 15th game of the season and in the process maybe win his fifth.

If the Sox are going to beat up on Jackson, it’ll be without Mike Lowell (food poisoning) and Jacoby Ellsbury (sore wrist). Say hello to Eric Hinske and Brandon Moss in the field tonight! On the bright side, the Globe says Manny looks good enough to play in the Yankee series.

Comment away!

Red Sox

1. Julio Lugo, SS
2. Dustin Pedroia, 2B
3. David Ortiz, DH
4. Kevin Youkilis, 3B
5. J.D. Drew, RF
6. Jason Varitek, C
7. Brandon Moss, LF
8. Coco Crisp, CF
9. Eric Hinske, 1B

Jon Lester

Devil Rays

1. Akinori Iwamura, 3B
2. Carl Crawford, LF
3. Carlos Pena, 1B
4. B.J. Upton, CF
5. Delmon Young, RF
6. Brendan Harris, 2B
7. Jonny Gomes, DH
8. Dioner Navarro, C
9. Josh Wilson, SS

Edwin Jackson

183 comments… add one
  • Tito with the TMI about Lowell:
    “He doesn’t know if [it] was something he ate but he’s got activity from both ends,” said the manager.”

    QuoSF September 12, 2007, 6:40 pm
  • “Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, welcome to Fenway Park.” Ah, yay for baseball.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 7:02 pm
  • This lineup has help me slapped all over it.

    rob September 12, 2007, 7:09 pm
  • Yeah, Lugo should be dropped lower, but other than that…hey, if Lowell is sick and Ellsbury’s hurting, what can you do?

    Devine September 12, 2007, 7:10 pm
  • Leadoff walk. Uh-oh.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 7:10 pm
  • Yeah, Lugo should be dropped lower, but other than that…hey, if Lowell is sick and Ellsbury’s hurting, what can you do?
    Well for starters, contact the local voodoo shaman in the Fenway area and get your hands on a voodoo doll.

    rob September 12, 2007, 7:11 pm
  • 1 down, runner moves to 2nd.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 7:14 pm
  • Ye have a point, rob. I’ll go get the live chicken I keep in my cubicle.
    Oh, too late, a run scores on Pena’s single.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 7:15 pm
  • Here we go, Pena singles and Iwamura scores.

    rob September 12, 2007, 7:15 pm
  • Ouch, 2-run homer immediately following off the pole. 3-0 Rays.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 7:15 pm
  • In keeping with the animal rights groups, I would advise a 10 piece from KFC.
    You do not want to get Vick’d.

    rob September 12, 2007, 7:16 pm
  • Wow, that f*cking sucks.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 7:16 pm
  • Ferchistsake! Come on.

    LocklandSF September 12, 2007, 7:16 pm
  • you’ve got to be kidding me there? Why do they make it so hard on themselves? Thank the baseball Gods this is Tampa Bay, so you know that without Kazmir on the bump…

    Anonymous September 12, 2007, 7:16 pm
  • Jesus, now a double just over the infield, Lester has a sheen on his face already.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 7:18 pm
  • Unreal.

    LocklandSF September 12, 2007, 7:20 pm
  • Yanks up on Toronto already 2-0

    rob September 12, 2007, 7:20 pm
  • Goddamn it!! 4-0.
    Time to quit on the game and wait for it to maybe get better while I’m not fuming, like yesterday.
    F*CK F*CK F*CK!!!

    Devine September 12, 2007, 7:21 pm
  • Have I mentioned that I HATE guys that nibble on the plate. Just throw strikes already, kid. This feel good story is wearing off on me already. Tavarez is warming up right now. Nice.

    Anonymous September 12, 2007, 7:22 pm
  • Just go fucking get him. Spare yourself the questions later, Tito. Ugh.
    OMG. Stolen third.
    Sorry the anons were mine.

    Brad September 12, 2007, 7:24 pm
  • Wow, Lester completely unglued that inning. All of this done with Lowell and the Energizer Bunny out of the lineup.

    rob September 12, 2007, 7:26 pm
  • Why would any pitcher throw high heat to Dustin? Ever? I mean, I hope they keep doing it, but it’s his bread and butter.

    LocklandSF September 12, 2007, 7:30 pm
  • this team is just skidding into the playoffs, last night’s win was nice but also full of ugliness. This weekend could be infamous.
    Could we get more total bombs from our pitchers, please? Not sure every other night is enough for me.

    SF September 12, 2007, 7:35 pm
  • I’m with you SF, at this point I fully expect to get swept this weekend.

    LocklandSF September 12, 2007, 7:39 pm
  • The only thing possibly in our favor tonight is that Mussina is pitching for NY.

    rob September 12, 2007, 7:43 pm
  • Lester with 53 pitches through 2 innings.

    rob September 12, 2007, 7:45 pm
  • “He doesn’t know if [it] was something he ate but he’s got activity from both ends,” said the manager.”
    Quo that is hysterical! Activity from both ends. Classic.

    John - YF (Trisk) September 12, 2007, 7:51 pm
  • Lester’s got…nothin’!

    SF September 12, 2007, 8:02 pm
  • three in the loss column after tonight, perhaps.

    SF September 12, 2007, 8:03 pm
  • special thanks to Wake for making pulling Lester early an impossibility.

    SF September 12, 2007, 8:09 pm
  • Thank goodness we have a day off tomorrow to rest the pen.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 12, 2007, 8:11 pm
  • I’ll give Lester credit for one thing. Han can leave him some men on base!
    Always has been a particular talent (?) of his.

    Michael T September 12, 2007, 8:17 pm
  • Lugo still feels like this game is worth winning, nice steal.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 12, 2007, 8:18 pm
  • PAPI!!! Three run bomb to right to cut the score to 4-3.
    Papi now over 100 Rib-eyes.

    rob September 12, 2007, 8:20 pm
  • Drew doubles, now 2-2 tonight. Tek is up.

    rob September 12, 2007, 8:23 pm
  • Sweet, now it’s a game! And Drew with a double, I will be happy as hell if Drew can turn it on from now on and into the playoffs.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 12, 2007, 8:23 pm
  • please please please tell me drew can return to how he was hitting the ball the first month of the season. he looks so close to turning it around.

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 8:23 pm
  • Damn, we do nothing after Drew doubles as tek adn Moss both strike out swinging.

    rob September 12, 2007, 8:27 pm
  • Tavarez up in the pen.

    rob September 12, 2007, 8:32 pm
  • Lester exited the game with 91 pitches.

    rob September 12, 2007, 8:41 pm
  • Man, Hinske is just brutal. With he and Cora as the bench guys we look like the Yankees earlier this season. No bench, in other words.

    SF September 12, 2007, 8:47 pm
  • dear mr. hinske-
    i will always remember you for your amazing faceplant catch. i will always hate you for your nonexistant approach to hitting. you will be missed.
    redsox post season roster ’07

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 8:47 pm
  • I wonder if they could have taught Wily Mo first.

    SF September 12, 2007, 8:53 pm
  • Dustin singles.

    SF September 12, 2007, 8:54 pm
  • Papi hits a double play ball but legs it out. One down, Papi on first.

    SF September 12, 2007, 8:55 pm
  • Thr ghost of Wily Mo strides up, sweaty.

    SF September 12, 2007, 8:55 pm
  • From now on I will be referring to Youk as “GOMW”.
    What a K machine he’s turned into.

    SF September 12, 2007, 8:57 pm
  • wmp with another homer today and a double to boot. well…at least he struck out twice.

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 8:59 pm
  • man, Youk just got screwed on a check swing call. Where is Tito to defend his guy? Brutal call.

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:01 pm
  • horrible check swing call by larry vanover.

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 9:01 pm
  • Tek just sucks. So fucking done.

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:05 pm
  • ummmm marmalade on my tek.

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 9:05 pm
  • I’m hoping the offense can light up Tampa pitching again. If they don’t… woe…
    Tavarez doing admirably thus far.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 12, 2007, 9:12 pm
  • God, just cut Hinske now. What a pile of dung.

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:24 pm
  • “hinske…henski… oh nevermind” –redsox post season roster ’07

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 9:24 pm
  • Why am I even watching this game? The Sox are a pitifully unentertaining group tonight.

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:28 pm
  • four pitch walk to Young. Tito getting greedy with Batshit, I fear.

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:29 pm
  • force at second, two down. Big out here, and Tito goes out to get JT. Well done, Julian.

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:31 pm
  • pretty crazy behind the back play by MDC. hinske finds the bag. so…there’s something.

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 9:35 pm
  • In almost thirty-five years of watching the Sox, I have never wanted to bash my head against a wall more consistently than with this team.

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:40 pm
  • If the Sox lose two of three to the Devil Rays at home during a pennant stretch, they have everything to be ashamed of, and nobody to blame but themselves. It would be a pathetic accomplishment.
    Is it clear that I am completely frustrated at this point?

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:41 pm
  • Come on, JD, I am the only one who believes in you…

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:42 pm
  • Time to be aggressive here, 3-1 count to JD…

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:42 pm
  • And, a walk. Two more we can leave on the sacks!

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:43 pm
  • I’m frustrated too, this team has been so maddening this year. hot, hot, cold, frigid, en fuego, hot, mild, cold… you can’t predict them at all.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 12, 2007, 9:43 pm
  • Can Manny pinch hit? Is he available?

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:43 pm
  • God, Tek is up. Color me pessimistic.
    If I were the pitchers, fastballs down the pipe would do. As long as he can throw 88mph, that should be enough to take care of Jason…

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:44 pm
  • 2-0 count to Tek. Come on…

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:45 pm
  • WEAK fucking grounder to first. Horrific. Tek is a fucking paperweight.

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:45 pm
  • 9 left on base now. Against a horrid team, a terrible starter, an even worse bullpen.
    Anyone else worried about this team’s chances yet like I am and have been, or is everyone else staying cheery and happy as the team slowly sinks towards a mid-October Hawaiian vacation?

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:47 pm
  • i hate these “day after” games. so you did some things last nite that you don’t normally do. no one says you have slink around and feel all dirty about it the next day.

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 9:48 pm
  • Tek with six LOB tonight, average down to .258. Who catches for the Sox in ’09?
    Next year is going to be one ugly year at the catcher’s spot for the Sox.

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:49 pm
  • Wow, wake the hell up. This is just an embarrasment. Pedroia goes back on a ball that isn’t his, calls off Drew, then backs off at the last second and a can of corn drops for a single. I give up, this is just no fun at all to watch.
    I really want this team to succeed, but the writing is on the wall.

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:51 pm
  • Go Sox. Win it while I distract myself with Top Chef, which is going to be far more entertaining than this utter crapfest.

    SF September 12, 2007, 9:52 pm
  • Is Kotteras major league ready?

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 12, 2007, 9:59 pm
  • okay, thank you Oki. 6 outs to win the game, let’s go offense. Good news, Tek’s not due up soon. :D

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 12, 2007, 10:00 pm
  • But Hinske is…

    SF September 12, 2007, 10:01 pm
  • I have a good feeling about this game. However, that feeling is completely unsupported by any objective fact, except that the Rays pen stinks.

    Hudson September 12, 2007, 10:04 pm
  • Yeah, there’s always that beacon of hope. C’mon Wheeler, give it up.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 12, 2007, 10:06 pm
  • kottaras- .241 with 9 hr’s earning him a #31 sox prospect ranking.
    look for mark wagner and jon stills before you got looking for george.

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 10:08 pm
  • But George is hot, I want him up first for my own selfish reasons.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 12, 2007, 10:11 pm
  • Nice call on that one, SF. Hinske had pitches to hit at 2-0 and 3-2, but didn’t move the bat. Ick.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 10:15 pm
  • lugo, pedroia, ortiz for the dramatics. papelbon with a tune up for the series.

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 10:15 pm
  • PS I’ve been watching about the last 3 innings.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 10:15 pm
  • Can we cue the Ortiz walk-off reel, please? One more to get for Paps.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 10:18 pm
  • somebody’s gonna walk-off. i just hope it isn’t me in anger.

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 10:23 pm
  • I don’t actually feel confident, I’m just attempting bluster. Wheeeeeeeeee!

    Devine September 12, 2007, 10:23 pm
  • I’m gonna try not to be negative, to just accept that which I cannot change, as they say.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 10:25 pm
  • Full count to Lugo.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 10:27 pm
  • Winning only one game in the series against the DRays… ugh.
    Lugo walks, thank goodness!

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 12, 2007, 10:28 pm
  • is there another miracle in the sox socks?….probably, they’re luckier than wang

    dc September 12, 2007, 10:29 pm
  • Way to go, Lugo! Dustin, no ground balls.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 10:29 pm
  • Pop out. Papi time.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 10:31 pm
  • I thought I’d poke my head in here–why the HELL did Pedroia not bunt Lugo over to 2nd? Where’s the goddamn small ball?

    Atheose September 12, 2007, 10:34 pm
  • WOW. i need to see that one again.

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 10:34 pm
  • HE DID IT!!! HE DID IT!!! HE DID IT!!!

    Devine September 12, 2007, 10:34 pm
  • Grinning from ear to ear. And I even called it (sort of)…
    Papi is the magic man.

    Hudson September 12, 2007, 10:35 pm
    That’s the big papi we’ve missed!

    Atheose September 12, 2007, 10:35 pm
  • My God.

    SF September 12, 2007, 10:36 pm
  • not proud of this…but see the yankee thread…i called it…damn…devil rays givin’ it up again…sox are the rays daddies…

    dc September 12, 2007, 10:36 pm
  • Hi, Papi! We’ve been expecting you. Welcome.

    DW-sf September 12, 2007, 10:37 pm
  • thank you dc. you have an uncanny knack for that.

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 10:37 pm
  • that’s two nights in a row where the WPA was probably around .1%. Baseball sure knows how to fuck with one’s head.

    SF September 12, 2007, 10:38 pm
  • who’s lucky now b-raw?
    no you didn’t call it…go check my post…

    dc September 12, 2007, 10:38 pm
  • no sweat rod…i like you better that b-raw ;)

    dc September 12, 2007, 10:39 pm
  • Fiancee says: “He did the Papi magic!”
    So true. Ball could have been caught, too. Lucky it was misplayed a bit.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 10:39 pm
  • I needed that so badly. Got laid off today and was dealing with so much needling from a local yanks fan. Really needed a little pick-me-up.

    rootbeerfloat September 12, 2007, 10:40 pm
  • Papi we have missed this all season, thank you.

    rob September 12, 2007, 10:40 pm
  • thank goodness Hinske did nothing in the eighth, I guess.

    SF September 12, 2007, 10:41 pm
  • for the record and those of you who don’t remember me telling you i saw papi as a young player, i like the guy a lot [transcends the yankee/sox bs]…it’s bittersweet, and tough to root for, but what the hell, i’m a baseball fan first…

    dc September 12, 2007, 10:42 pm
  • RBF, sorry about the bad news, glad Papi could provide a moment.

    SF September 12, 2007, 10:42 pm
  • SF – thanks, the job kind of sucked anyway wo I’m trying for the silver lining…

    rootbeerfloat September 12, 2007, 10:43 pm
  • rbf…that sucks, dude. I’m so glad the Sox/Ortiz could help your day a little.

    Devine September 12, 2007, 10:43 pm
  • Condolences to RootBeerFloat. You’ll bounce back.

    Hudson September 12, 2007, 10:46 pm
  • See, now that is a curtain-call worthy play. Even though the game was over.

    SF September 12, 2007, 10:48 pm
  • yeah, sorry rbf. can you catch?

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 10:48 pm
  • Wow. God I love this game.

    LocklandSF September 12, 2007, 10:48 pm
  • Not trying to be mean here, but does Tina Cervasio have, like, 30% more teeth than your average human?

    Hudson September 12, 2007, 10:49 pm
  • She’s the Steven Tyler of NESN, Hud.

    SF September 12, 2007, 10:50 pm
  • Ouch, SF.

    Hudson September 12, 2007, 10:52 pm
  • RBF, I got sh*tcanned a few years ago from a crappy job but, of course, it was all I knew so I wasn’t happy about it. I have a new job at a better place and, when I meet my chums who still work there, I hear them complain and I say, “thank heavens I don’t work there anymore!” It’s all good. :-)

    DW-sf September 12, 2007, 10:54 pm
  • I call her…
    Large Mouth Bass
    That lady could stick an entire watermelon in her mouth and have room for a cucumber.

    LocklandSF September 12, 2007, 10:54 pm
  • You say that like it’s a bad thing…

    DW-sf September 12, 2007, 11:00 pm
  • one last item: thank you Julian. Great job by Tavarez doing what he should be doing: long/middle relief.

    SF September 12, 2007, 11:08 pm
  • >>>Large Mouth Bass
    Harsh but hilarious.

    Hudson September 12, 2007, 11:09 pm
  • Just saw a replay of the Little Manny behind-the-calf grab. Smooth.

    Hudson September 12, 2007, 11:10 pm
  • if we’re handing out stars….one for lugo. julio at first gets ortiz into a 3-1 count.

    sf rod September 12, 2007, 11:12 pm
  • Wow. Heckuva game to miss. Can’t wait to see the highlights! I guess this will finally shut everyone up about the Sox not getting enough come-from-behind, ninth-inning wins.
    What will David Ortiz hit like when he’s healthy? I mean, he could hit, like, 54 homers or something!

    Paul SF September 12, 2007, 11:12 pm
  • “That lady could stick an entire watermelon in her mouth and have room for a cucumber.”
    What a classy place to be, go figure for sox fans.

    Marc from Portland Maine September 12, 2007, 11:24 pm
  • I was really sorry to hear about that one BostonRaw. I’ve been a fan of Belechick and the Patriots for years, looks like I’m back to my sentimental fav’s’, Green Bay.

    Marc from Portland Maine September 12, 2007, 11:41 pm
  • Funny BRAW, I thought your argument this morning was that Manny was being rested because Boston wasn’t worried about the Yankees. Now you are arguing they’ve been waiting just to put him in against them. Funny, which is it?
    Congrats to the non-moronic SFs on this site on tonight’s win. Ortiz amazing again. As for BRAW, your Delta Chi name is now “Clownboy”, in honor of the fact that like a clown, no one takes you seriously, even your fellow SFs (loved Lockland’s likening of your logic to other non-existent entities such as the Easter Bunny). But you are good for laughs, so keep it coming. Please.
    P.S. Ted Lilly sends his regards.

    IronHorse (yf) September 12, 2007, 11:44 pm
  • The last Boston thread of the night gets my thoughts.
    Thread of the century for this blog.
    Who would you rather have; Arod or Papi. Both are DH’s in this scenario as a courtesy to Papi’s status and Arod’s attempt to play defense.
    The dillema for Boston fans: None really. Although the Monster is a killer attraction for a right handed power hitter, and Papi don’t play that shit, Arod has yet to shed a pair of dry shorts in the lockerroom after a true clutch situation.
    Admittance for Yank fans: ‘I know deep in my heart Arod sucks, and that my beloved Yanks will never win a championship as long as the bitch is in NY’.
    The fact that Papi would hit something like, oh, 112 HR’s with that little leaguish right fence in right is beside the point.
    Talk amongst yourselves.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 1:14 am
  • CLownboy, keep it coming!

    IronHorse (yf) September 13, 2007, 1:35 am
  • Clownboy, is it bedtime? Where are you?

    IronHorse (yf) September 13, 2007, 1:42 am
  • there are some folks who think arod could very well wind up in a sox uniform next season…then the “dilemma” will be clownboy’s…

    dc September 13, 2007, 7:45 am
  • “What a classy place to be, go figure for sox fans.”
    what are you, like a Puritan or something? did that comment shock you so bad you dropped your monocle?

    Ric September 13, 2007, 8:58 am
  • Wow. BRAW was either drunk last night or for some reason thought the game threads disappear over night. Those comments were unwise sir, unwise indeed.

    LocklandSF September 13, 2007, 9:04 am
  • my vote is drunk. It’s why I stayed out of it.:0

    Brad September 13, 2007, 10:04 am
  • Actually Lockland et al, Clownboy can be forgiven. As a RS fan it is fair to assume that he hasn’t watched any games featuring A-Rod other than the RS-Yankee games. And since the only game-winner hit by either Ortiz or A-Rod in this years’ match-ups was by A-Rod in Boston, it is quite plausible that he would have had to “shed a pair of dry shorts” afterwards as Clownboy says…it was a rainy night after all and his shorts must have gotten wet rounding the bases.
    Understand, that is not a dig at the rational SFs here – we all know Ortiz is ridiculously clutch. Though perhaps we could all send clownboy on an errand: look up number of game winning hits in 2007, look up batting averages in the 9th inning, and then get back to us with how unclutch A-Rod is.
    Dealing with such big numbers should keep his floppy clownboy shoes and nose-ball occupied for a couple months.

    IronHorse (yf) September 13, 2007, 10:10 am
  • Well, after a night of puking up all the alcohol in my stomach ;)… I have reached a conclusion:
    SOX sweep. Arod K’s a lot. Wang gets shelled. Jeter is caught on tape weeping, muttering to himself ‘The money is not worth it. The money is not worth it. I want to win, not get my ass handed to me by the SOX each year’

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 10:17 am
  • Clownboy!!! Welcome back!!!! Keep it coming!!!

    IronHorse (yf) September 13, 2007, 10:21 am
  • ARod’s postseason blues: .280 BA, 6 HRs, 16 RBIs in 35 games.
    Arod’s team WL in postseason blues: 3-6
    Next question, please.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 10:26 am
  • Question: Did Papi’s game winning HR look like a catchable ball had Delmon Young not run in circles?

    John - YF (Trisk) September 13, 2007, 10:29 am
  • Yes, although possibly the wind wreaked havoc with the flight pattern. Still, I think many outfielders would have stood a chance.

    Devine September 13, 2007, 10:32 am
  • I actually thought Young wouldn’t have even had to jump to catch that ball if he had run to the right spot. I almost couldnt’ believe how bad an angle he took. Then I remembered, thse are the D-Rays.
    Having never seen a game in Fenway, those seats in the first row of right field must be so great. What is that wall, 4-feet high??
    Oh, and Clownboy: Keep it coming!!!

    IronHorse (yf) September 13, 2007, 10:37 am
  • BR –
    I’ll take A-Rod on my team over nearly any player in the league right now, man. I don’t know where this hatred you have for him comes from, but he’s easily the best player you, I, or anyone else on this site has ever laid eyes on…

    Brad September 13, 2007, 10:38 am
  • Orsillo didn’t even call it like a home run and sounded shocked when it went out. When he said “Mr. Clutch does it again,” he must have meant Delmon Young because that was entirely a catchable ball.
    To be fair, though, I’ve seen plenty of more accomplished right fielders misplay much easier balls than that one. It’s a brutal area of the park.

    Paul SF September 13, 2007, 10:40 am
  • “but he’s easily the best player you, I, or anyone else on this site has ever laid eyes on…
    You obviously never watched Ted Lilly play in the NL because he plays in the NL.

    Nick-YF September 13, 2007, 10:41 am
  • I thought so. The ball landed in the first row while Delmon was doing a peroette. JD would have had it, no doubt.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 10:45 am
  • That’s your opinion, Brad (obviously). Personally, as a consistant offensive force I’d take pre-2006 Manny over him every day and twice on Sundays, while I consider BB the best player of my generation.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 10:48 am
  • “You obviously never watched Ted Lilly play in the NL because he plays in the NL”
    ?? That is an odd statement. Are you questioning my description of him as a pretty damn good pitcher since he joined the NL? Or do you think he was equally as good in the AL?
    Look at the year he is having in Cubsland. A career year.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 10:59 am
  • Clownboy: honk-honk, wheeeezzeee, oh-ee-oh-ee, psssssst, honk-honk. Keep it coming!!!!

    IronHorse (yf) September 13, 2007, 11:00 am
  • ” A career year.”
    I think he’s in the running for the NL Ted Lilly award.

    Andrews September 13, 2007, 11:00 am
  • honk, honk,
    oh, what a comic relief he is!

    Andrews September 13, 2007, 11:03 am
  • Raw, A-Rod is a more complete player, at a younger age, a larger upside, and about twenty other things that make him more appealing for the Red Sox next year than Manny.
    But you’re right: It’s only my opinion, which when we get right down to it, is all this website really is – opinions argued with factual (and sometimes non-factual) data.
    If, after this year Manny ends up somewhere else, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it – especially if Andrew Jones or A-Rod have taken his spot in the lineup.
    Again, just my opinion.

    Brad September 13, 2007, 11:04 am
  • In fact, I’m hoping with all that I can muster that scenario actually is what happens.
    Drew – Left
    Coco – Right
    Jones – Center
    Ellsbury (half year down, half year bench)
    Lowell – Third
    Youk – First
    Pedro – Second
    Lugo – SS
    Tek – C
    If that’s the lineup in April, I’m much happier than I was this year.

    Brad September 13, 2007, 11:07 am
  • Fair enough. Kinda of s stretch calling him more dominant than BB though.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 11:09 am
  • Brad I highly doubt Pedro would ok a trade back to the Sox, let along come back and be turned into a 2Bman. Keep dreaming! Some people.

    John - YF (Trisk) September 13, 2007, 11:10 am
  • ha.
    Oh yeah.

    Brad September 13, 2007, 11:12 am
  • I’m not really going to touch the BB thing, but I have to just say that I don’t actually take him into consideration when I make my own lists.
    However, you can do whatever you want to when it comes to that.
    Whatever blows your hair back, I guess, but I have to doubt everything that has EVER come from him. Again, EVER.

    Brad September 13, 2007, 11:14 am
  • I guess I am more pessimistic (or maybe realistic) than you, as I believe ‘roids were used by a hell of a lot more players than have been caught.
    Has Arod always been clean? That’s debatable. Should BB’s accomplishments be questioned because he was one of a few? I know I wouldn’t be suprised if 100% of what Conseco claims is true, and I believe he stated 80% of players were juiced.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 11:23 am
  • I’d rather they pick up Piazza as a 1/2 C, 1st baseman. Give Moss a roll filling in at first, keep Manny, use Ellsbury as a 4th OFer. Need a starter so as to not start 2008 as the Yanks did in 2007. I would be ok with another year of Schill.
    I believe they have options on Manny until 2010. If so, and if they have not determined he is done, he’s worth the cost for at least another year. Not thrilled about Jones.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 11:27 am
  • Ok, first I thought you were just a corky kind of guy, after this statement, I realize that you are in fact Corky from Life Goes On.
    “I’d rather they pick up Piazza as a 1/2 C, 1st baseman. Give Moss a roll filling in at first, keep Manny, use Ellsbury as a 4th OFer. Need a starter so as to not start 2008 as the Yanks did in 2007. I would be ok with another year of Schill.”

    LocklandSF September 13, 2007, 11:36 am
  • Manny is under contract through 2010. Except 2009 and 2010 are CLUB OPTIONS. The amount you ask…$20 Million. Going to be a tough call.

    John - YF (Trisk) September 13, 2007, 11:40 am
  • Raw:
    I’m not going to get into the debate of who’s clean and who’s not, but for whomever ins’t – Barry is their freaking posterboy. So, to assume that A-Rod isn’t clean because Canseco says it isn’t in my capacity. Also, if we’re just assuming that Canseco is not a guttless money-mongering coward (which I’m not), Manny has to be included in that arbitrary percentage, thus making A-Rod the better of two evils, and thus making him the better player regardless.
    This is a stupid conversation, man. We don’t know one way or the other outside of BB, which is why, at least for this baseball fan, A-Rod is the top dog of any conversation even remotely touching on baseball…to me, anyhow.

    Brad September 13, 2007, 11:41 am
  • Besides, the ebbs and flows of A-Rod’s performance throughout his career are more natural than Bonds,’ and his body hasn’t changed in the telltale ways Bonds’ has. Doesn’t mean he’s not using — we just can’t know — but the circumstantial/superficial evidence just isn’t there.

    Paul SF September 13, 2007, 11:46 am
  • True, John, but the real question is since Manny would have to be replaced with an equal what will that ‘equal’ cost in both dollars and player development.
    Is paying Jones $18m over 5 (thereby stunting OF prospects, including Coco) better than keeping Manny? I think not. But a lot depends on what is going on with Manny lately, and how management views his ability going forward.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 11:46 am
  • I happen to think management hates him, and yes paying Jones that money is worth it. He’s a serious power threat, plays 160 games every year, doesn’t ever allow a ball to touch the ground (ever), and provides even more speed to an already fast lineup.
    I’ll take it, every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Plus, he and Ortiz are good buddies, so in reality, I assume A-Rod goes back to NY, and Jones comes to Boston. Ellsbury will be the 4th OF next year, then full time after that.
    Imagine a defensive OF of Jones, Drew, and Coco? It’s possible that nothing will ever land in the gaps.

    Brad September 13, 2007, 11:51 am
  • In that scenario, does Coco go to left?

    Nick-YF September 13, 2007, 11:52 am
  • Coco going to left defeats the purpose of anyone being able to handle that corner with enough experience. On the road he would be a factor but rarily in Fenway. See: Manny.
    Coco is a CF’er. Ellsbury is a CF’er. Jones would be a CF’er. Redundancy squared.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 12:00 pm
  • That is not to say I hate Jones. I just do not believe he is necessary. My preference would be a power hitting 3rd baseman, followed by the same at 1st. If neither is available (Dunn will be but he’s a leftie)don’t grab power just for the hell of it. A 2006-7 Manny is still better than 75% of the players in the league.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 12:09 pm
  • No, move Coco to RF, where his speed would give him a huge advantage but put his arm into question, put Drew in RF, and Jones in Center. Pecking order. Jones is the best CF in the game right now, and the speed factor for Coco makes him more suitable for RF. Drew would be the odd man out on the wall.

    Brad September 13, 2007, 12:10 pm
  • Why? They don’t need another huge power bat. I would love for the Red Sox to be molded right after LAA. Teams with speed, who take bases, go from first to third, play awesome defense, and have a solid pitching staff with a dominant closer is better suited to win consistently.
    Of course it would be nice to have a huge bat at third or first, but they’re doing great with the combo now: some power and awesome defense. A run prevented is just as valuable as a run earned.

    Brad September 13, 2007, 12:13 pm
  • First Basemen
    Sean Casey DET
    Tony Clark ARZ
    Jeff Conine NYM
    Julio Franco ATL
    Ryan Klesko SF
    Kevin Millar * BAL
    Olmedo Saenz LAD
    Mark Sweeney LAD
    Mike Sweeney KC
    *=Club Option
    Third Basemen
    Russell Branyan STL
    Pedro Feliz SF
    Corey Koskie * MIL
    Mike Lamb HOU
    Mike Lowell BOS
    Greg Norton * TB
    Abraham O. Nunez PHI
    Alex Rodriguez NYY (may void after 2007)
    *=Club Option
    This FA class doesn’t have what you are looking for, other the Alex.
    The Reds have a $13M option on Dunn for ’08.

    John - YF (Trisk) September 13, 2007, 12:16 pm
  • Coco is ill-suited for right because he has a ‘Damon’ arm. Best to keep JD there. As far as your LAA statement I’m still waiting for the punchline.
    Don’t forget where these boys play half their games.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 12:18 pm
  • Re: Dunn
    IMO, it does not matter is Cinci signs him or not. With Papi, JD and Tek the RS do not need another leftie. He won’t be coming here.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 12:24 pm
  • You are a strange Dude, you just offered Dunn as a solution not even 5 posts ago…
    I am out of this conversation, I don’t care who you sign.

    John - YF (Trisk) September 13, 2007, 12:29 pm
  • You need to read more often, as reading appears a weakness of yours.
    “That is not to say I hate Jones. I just do not believe he is necessary. My preference would be a power hitting 3rd baseman, followed by the same at 1st. If neither is available (Dunn will be but he’s a leftie) don’t grab power just for the hell of it. A 2006-7 Manny is still better than 75% of the players in the league”
    That would be my discounting Dunn as a possibility.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 12:33 pm
  • “(Dunn will be but he’s a leftie)”
    I didn’t realize leftie now means the same thing as too expensive, overpriced, underperforming, etc…
    As for my reading skills, you should focus more on providing facts with your arguments, then how well I read.

    John - YF (Trisk) September 13, 2007, 12:38 pm
  • No, a leftie is actually a reference to which side of the plate a batter hits from. Price, talent and performance can actually be displayed from both that side and the other.
    You’re welcome

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 12:44 pm
  • Actually… price cannot be displayed on the field, but I am sure you know what I meant ;)
    To end this thread: Dunn will not be signed by the SOX. Not because of an option Cinci holds, as I doubt they exercise it, but because Boston, if Manny leaves, would want a right handed power bat, not a southpaw.

    BostonRAW September 13, 2007, 12:51 pm
  • Ted Lilly is a leftie. He believes that history is the story of class struggle, and that eventually the proletariat will rise up!
    Actually, BRAW’s Piazza’s suggestion echoes what I wrote before the season began. I thought he was a nice option for the Yanks as a 2nd C/1b/DH. Probably it’s misguided but I see where BRAW is coming from.
    I think the problem with Manny is that more and more it’s becoming evident that he should be a full-time DH. His body is breaking down now more often and he’s poor in the field. IMO it makes sense to try to trade him and get value back and clear space for other options in the outfield.

    Nick-YF September 13, 2007, 12:54 pm
  • There is no punchline at all, Raw. LAA is a damn good team no matter where they play, less you forget where the Red Sox and Yankees play half of their respective schedules. That’s why it’s called a ‘home field advantage’; short porches, walls, strange corners, and rowdy fans, and huge areas of uncoverable outfield make it what it is. They do play half their games on the road as well, and yet, here they are, right in the mix for said advantage.
    Guy, if LA had one more power threat to protect Vlad, they would be unstoppable on more nights than not, which is why I think either Manny or A-Rod end up going there.
    Yeah, I’d gladly take a team with two or three power threats, one huge slugger, and a ton of speed and defense. Maybe winning that way ins’t as thrilling to you? To me, it’s much easier to rely on speed, pitching, and defense than it is for six guys to hit HR’s night in and night out.
    Jones is the PERFECT fit for Boston, and if they locked him up for five years, I’m a happy, happy man.

    Brad September 13, 2007, 12:58 pm

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