Red in the Face

Nick asked me yesterday in a side email if Bronson Arroyo was "lied to" by the Sox’ front office over their intentions to trade him.  I told him I didn’t think so, and no less unbiased a figure as Theo Epstein just asserted the same thing ;).  Today, Bronson spoke out, and if you read this article and this article you’ll see that it’s pretty clear that he wasn’t lied to, that he himself had a trade on his mind, though it came more quickly than he thought.  He even disregarded his agent Greg Clifton’s advice not to accept the Sox’ 3 year contract offer, as Clifton (correctly) felt this made him an attractive target for small market clubs, just like us. My biggest quibble (and it’s a minor quibble) is with the title of the first article ("Arroyo Cries Foul Over Trade to Reds), which seems to misrepresent Arroyo, who has handled this surprising trade with class and pragmatism, even while he’s obviously in a state of major disappointment.

(Oh, and Johnny Damon has an opinion, too (shock!!), and it’s sub-mental.  Johnny thinks Arroyo should be allowed to "re-do his contract" because of the trade.  Right.  You really think Bronson’s going to get more than $11M from the Reds, Johnny? )

26 comments… add one
  • All hail the prognosticatory genius who is SF.

    YF March 21, 2006, 1:57 pm
  • fuck johnny damon. seriously. fuck him right in the ear.

    beth March 21, 2006, 2:43 pm
  • Somebody has had a tough day?

    Brad March 21, 2006, 3:18 pm
  • Must of had big $ on Fidel’s boys.

    Nate March 21, 2006, 3:53 pm
  • Damon is starting to sound like he has a bit of a complex about the Sox.
    Good. That may interfere with his concentration when they finally meet on the field.
    (I continue to like the suggestion that when Captain Caveman makes his first at-bat at Fenway, that 34,000 fans all silently open up a newspaper and ignore him.)

    Hudson March 21, 2006, 4:11 pm
  • My favorite quote from the article was this:
    “They have their plans, and they have their computers, and they believe that’s right,” Damon said. “Unfortunately, computers don’t judge a person’s heart.”
    Ugh. I was looking forward to the sound of so many people booing in unison, but I kind of like Hudson’s suggestion. A LOT.

    JoshSFinMI March 21, 2006, 7:39 pm
  • I have tickets and I’m going to be at that Johnny’s first game back at Fenway (if I can get out of a final exam, which is hard to do in grad school, let me tell you). It’ll be interesting to hear what the crowd does when Damon leads off the game. To be honest I don’t know what I’ll do. I really liked the guy when he played for the Sox. I was upset when he left, but I think the Sox have improved with the addition of Crisp.

    mattymatty March 21, 2006, 10:04 pm
  • “Damon is starting to sound like he has a bit of a complex about the Sox”.
    Actually Hudson, you got that backward. Most of Red Sox Nation has a complex about Damon, and I mean a BIG complex.
    That’s been the number one topic for discussion all winter long for the still disbelieving Sox fans, how on earth could Johnny leave the Sox for THE YANKEES!??
    Any Boston fan you talk to, any Sox site you checkout, Sox fans have been moaning and groaning and crying and bitching, and then of course, the vindictive bitterness set in and since, Damon has been blasted and insulted in every way imaginable, even though he has said on numerous occasions how much Boston’s fans meant to him and how sad it was for him to leave.
    But, that’s lost on the Boston haters. Big surprise.
    And judging from SF’s latest thread here, and some of the comments, that complex is alive and well.
    However, mattymatty seems to have adjusted well to life without Johnny. Good for you matty, it’s nice to here a Sox fan speak of Damon and not feel the need to insult and trash him.

    whatever March 21, 2006, 10:40 pm
  • Come on, WE. That’s a stupid comment. First of all, I posted about Damon because Damon commented on the Arroyo trade. I would never have posted about Damon w/r/t this trade had there not been a major feature about “what Johnny thought”, it just never would have entered my mind that Damon would even care. Now, this is probably partially the media’s fault: the first guy they probably scramble to to get commentary is JD. But Johnny has to learn to say “can we move on?”, or else he’s going to remain in the headlines, which is probably somewhat intentional, let’s not kid ourselves. As soon as he stops talking about everything Red Sox, he’ll stop being a magnet for commentary by SFs. But he seems almost terminally incapable of shutting his mouth. In all honesty, he never spoke this much about other teams while he was with the Red Sox.
    To generalize that Damon has been “the number one topic for discussion all winter long for the still disbelieving Sox fans” is just wrong – since Crisp arrived and the pertinent discussion about the two centerfielders, there’s been very little about the Damon exodus unless Johnny himself made comments. For the month of January he was the major topic for both YFs and SFs, and undestandably so. But the last month only Johnny has kept himself in the Sox fans’ crosshairs, not the other way around.

    SF March 22, 2006, 7:23 am
  • Whatever,
    /chuckle.
    We don’t have a complex about Johnny. He did what was right for himself. These guys only have a few short years to make major money and the Yankees offer was far better than the Sox offer. He was right to accept it.
    What we’re tired of is the media approaching Johnny for an opinion on virtually everything under the sun and Johnny obliging them because a. he loves attention and b. he’s pissed that the Sox didn’t value him enough to offer him more money.
    And frankly, I agree with the FO’s approach. Damon’s body is breaking down and he’s a liability in the outfield every time there are runners in scoring position. And what did the Sox get? A guy who is 6 years younger that they control at far fewer dollars for the next three years. A guy who happened to hit nearly as well as Johnny did – but in a pitcher’s park. Johnny’s peaked, we got his best years and now we got a guy who is still improving. All Coco needs to do is learn to get on base a little more (more walks please)as befits a leadoff hitter.
    Enjoy Mr. Damon. He’s certainly an improvement over Bernie – not that that would have been hard to achieve (for the record, it pains me to say that as Bernie is a class act). But in the end, I think you’ll find that the Sox made out better.

    Craig March 22, 2006, 8:40 am
  • SF,
    Stupid comment? Actually SF, what that was, was a comment that you, as a thin skinned Red Sox fan didn’t like, so in typical fashion, you chuck out an insult, and then try to argue it with twisted, shallow remarks that are really weak.
    Now look, as a Red Sox fan, you KNOW that Damon always speaks his mind. Ask him a question about anything and he’ll have something to say.
    So is it any big surprise to you when a reporter asks him about his close friend, Bronson Arroyo, who had just got dumped by the Sox, that Damon had an opinion about it?
    And of course, you call Damon’s comments sub-mental. Your just not very perceptive.
    Damon wanted to say something for his friend Bronson, who did sign a lesser deal with Boston, hoping to stay, but then was sent packing. Now, Damon knows that there’s no going back on the deal Arroyo signed. But sometimes people say things about the way they think they should be, knowing though, that won’t be the case.
    For example, I think Bush should be impeached for what he’s done to this country, but sadly, that won’t be the case. Same with Damon. He thinks Bronson should get out of his contract, because some people think he got a raw deal, but Damon knows that won’t be the case.
    As far as Damon shutting his mouth, when Damon was with the Sox, Boston fans loved Damon and his irreverent idiot brothers with their happy go lucky, say anything, Jack Daniels chugging, devil may care persona that led them to that 2004 championship.
    Now that Damon is in NY, and some of that has carried over to the Yanks, suddenly, YOU CAN’T STAND IT. Get over it SF. If Damon is nothing to you anymore, than say nothing.
    Oh, and SF, this remark that Damon never spoke of other teams when he was with the Sox. Well wake up. In the biggest rivalry in baseball, Damon just went from one side to the other. A little different dynamic now, wouldn’t you say?
    Finally, Damon was definitely the overall number one topic for the offseason. I didn’t say the only one, but whatever is in second place is way far behind. And their still talking about him.
    You know what the first big anticipated event is going into this season for Sox fans? It’s that first series in early May when Damon and the Yanks come to town. What will the reaction be when Johnny leads off the game? Just look at the comments above. Their talking about it already.(actually, they’ve been talking about that moment all winter).
    Thing is SF, most Sox fans haven’t gotten over Damon yet, no matter how you try to spin it. Not by a long shot. And if you don’t like what Damon has to say, well, then don’t acknowledge it. Your the one who brought it up here.
    I know, you just couldn’t resist taking another shot at Johnny.

    whatever March 22, 2006, 2:15 pm
  • WE:
    If you want to substantiate an “obsession” with Damon on this site, specifically with regards to my own posts about JD that are NOT in response to Damon’s own comments, go for it. Scour the site. It will be fruitless. What you will find is almost nothing that would qualify as anything remotely approaching an “obsession”, and barely anything posted on Damon in the last two months that isn’t simply a response to his own horrible PR acumen, which though not new, is at least different now and far more focused. There are surely plenty of Sox fans who are still pissed at Damon, but not this one. Your broadstroke generalization about Boston fans and attack on this site is perhaps not stupid, but at least irresponsible.
    But never mind the facts.

    SF March 22, 2006, 2:29 pm
  • Craig,
    Chuckle, what you SHOULD have said is, I don’t have a complex about Johnny. There’s a lot of Sox fans that do, whether you want to admit it or not.
    The rest of your comment is pretty reasonable. Wow, this is unreal. Another Sox fan talking about Damon and not bashing him, instead, offering their opinions about what will happen on the field.
    Remember Craig, Damon is the big new addition to the Yankees this year, so reporters will be all over him for comments on anything and everything. If Damon enjoys the attention, well, I guess that’s Johnny being Johnny.
    As far as Damon being a liability in the outfield with runners in scoring position, well, you should know that Coco’s arm is nothing to write home and tell the folks about either.
    We’ll see how Coco performs in the pressure cooker of Boston Red Sox baseball. We know Damon can handle it. Can Coco, or will the crazed, infatuated Boston fans and media turn him into a crispy critter if he struggles? Time will tell.

    whatever March 22, 2006, 2:34 pm
  • You know what the first big anticipated event is going into this season for Sox fans? It’s that first series in early May when Damon and the Yanks come to town.
    Wrong. The first series with the Yankees is of course highly anticipated, as it always is, but the FIRST big anticipated events are the first appearances by key players coming back from injury: Schilling and Foulke in particular.

    airk March 22, 2006, 3:29 pm
  • Right on, airk. For some reason there are some Yankees fans that think Damon’s return is the biggest thing that could possibly happen to us Sox fans. It’s hardly that. It’s a sideshow, a distraction, and I already can tell that that series is going to be painfully annoying. There will be a disproportionate focus on his return over the games themselves, which is what really matter. It is going to be given a lot more space on the sports pages and given airtime on ESPN and on NESN and on YES that is hardly commensurate with the time it occupies in the minds of many SFs. If I were to predict, I think that blogs (of all places) will probably be the most even-keeled about JD’s return and the conventional media will be the source for hyperbolism. Let’s see.

    SF March 22, 2006, 3:44 pm
  • SF,
    Now your putting words in my mouth. Did I use the word obsession once?
    Complex, obsession, whatever you want to call it, I’ve seen literally thousands of comments on numerous sites blasting Damon.If it’s not broad stroke, it’s certainly prevalent.
    Your not still pissed at Damon? Well, your closing paragraph in the opening thread sure gave me the impression that you were.
    If your earlier comments on Damon were reasonable, and objective, like say, Craig’s and mattymatty’s were, well, than maybe I misconstrued your feelings on Damon. I haven’t visited this site for very long, so I wouldn’t know what was said in those earlier posts. But that sub-mental remark about Damon doesn’t support your argument very well.
    And what on earth is this, “attack on this site?!” What attack? For making pretty mild comments about Sox fans that I believe are true? For disagreeing with some of your points? Isn’t that why were all here?
    I’d say your exaggerating here, but you’ll probably consider it another attack.
    Haven’t I seen a lot more scathing, crude remarks here about the Yankees and their fans? No problem with those though, huh?
    And by the way, thanks for not calling my comment stupid again.
    Lastly, you think I’m not minding the facts, well, I think your in denial. Fine, let’s agree to disagree. I’ve got things to do before the Yanks-Red Sox game this evening.

    whatever March 22, 2006, 3:45 pm
  • Than why is everyone talking about what Sox fans should do when Damon comes up at Fenway for the first time as a Yankee?
    The Schilling and Foulke stories will be played out over time, as one outing is not an indication of what will take place over the course of the season.
    The biggest SINGLE game of the early season will be Damon’s first game back at Fenway, whether you boys want to admit it or not.

    whatever March 22, 2006, 3:55 pm
  • WE: I don’t need to defend myself here, particularly not to you since you admit that you haven’t read the site much (thanks for the honesty- seriously) and therefore know almost nothing about my take on Damon. But at the same time you admit this you single me out as the target of this comment, which seems just flat-out antagonistic:
    Now that Damon is in NY, and some of that has carried over to the Yanks, suddenly, YOU CAN’T STAND IT. Get over it SF. If Damon is nothing to you anymore, than say nothing.
    or this comment:
    Thing is SF, most Sox fans haven’t gotten over Damon yet, no matter how you try to spin it. Not by a long shot. And if you don’t like what Damon has to say, well, then don’t acknowledge it. Your the one who brought it up here.
    I know, you just couldn’t resist taking another shot at Johnny.

    and then this:
    If your earlier comments on Damon were reasonable, and objective, like say, Craig’s and mattymatty’s were, well, than maybe I misconstrued your feelings on Damon. I haven’t visited this site for very long, so I wouldn’t know what was said in those earlier posts. But that sub-mental remark about Damon doesn’t support your argument very well.
    How can you crap on my “sub-mental” comment about Damon when you have no concept of the context of my thoughts? And apologies for the obscurity, but the “sub-mental” comment was an offhanded Woody Allen reference, from “Crimes and Misdemeanors”.

    SF March 22, 2006, 4:02 pm
  • Than why is everyone talking about what Sox fans should do
    WHERE?! A couple of commenters here have, for sure, and probably elsewhere too. How the heck does that suddenly become “everyone”!?

    SF March 22, 2006, 4:03 pm
  • Hmmmm, looks like I may have to hang for a while here yet.
    Your splitting hairs here SF. OK, maybe not everyone, but A HELLUVA LOT OF SOX FANS ARE TALKING ABOUT DAMON’S FIRST GAME BACK.
    Hey guess what SF? Nobody on any blog has a concept of anyone’s thoughts, OTHER than what you read from their comments. And your comment on Damon sounded angry.
    What your failing to grasp here SF, is that your feelings are not indicative of all Boston fans.
    And by the way, the blogs will be going nuts when the Yankee series starts to draw near. Do you ever go to Boston.com, or SOSH ? That will be an event, whether your in Fenway, watching at home, or somewhere chatting in a blog.

    whatever March 22, 2006, 4:25 pm
  • SF,
    Hudson made the original comment about Damon having having a complex, so my first post was mostly directed at him, and perhaps some of the other Damon bashers ( Beth was sweet), although I did mention you because of the sub-mental paragraph.
    Then, you posted, calling my comment stupid,(which was a mistake), and challenged my points, so then my focus shifted to you.
    By the way, are we beating this horse to death?

    whatever March 22, 2006, 4:38 pm
  • What your failing to grasp here SF, is that your feelings are not indicative of all Boston fans
    No, that’s my point, almost exactly. You make it out to sound otherwise, that all Sox fans have the same feeling towards Damon. They don’t. I guess we agree.
    Le cheval est morte! Vive le cheval!

    SF March 22, 2006, 4:43 pm
  • Well said! (I think).

    whatever March 22, 2006, 5:03 pm
  • Oh, and by the way, Damon’s quote (“They have their plans, and they have their computers, and they believe that’s right,” Damon said. “Unfortunately, computers don’t judge a person’s heart.”) was sub-mental, as it is a forehead-slappingly obvious case of the pot calling the kettle heartless, er, black.
    The lack of self-awareness it would take to realize this pretty much qualifies his comment as sub-mental.
    I only mention this because I like beating dead horses. It makes me feel big. :)

    airk March 22, 2006, 6:10 pm
  • Whatever,
    Damon’s departure from the Sawx was a big deal for a week or two; it isn’t now and frankly Theo’s hissy fit over whatever it was that Larry the Snake did was a bigger deal.
    You need to put it in context. A lot has happened this year unlike in New York. In fact, let’s review:
    1. Theo rejects the Sox offer, departs Fenway in a gorilla suit and leaves the organization after giving a press conference in which (quite masterfully I might add) he managed to say virtually nothing.
    2. The Sox pull off a major deal that nets them Josh Beckett and saddles them with an aging Mike Lowell.
    3. Billy Mueller becomes a free agent and is signed by the Dodgers (this one hurt – the Pro was my favorite player on team pretty much).
    4. Millar goes to the Orioles, Mirabelli to the Padres.
    5. The Sox aquire Mark Loretta (I like this deal personally).
    6. Rentawreck is swapped for Andy Marte – Sox fans rejoice.
    7. Marte, along with K. Shoppach, is flipped in the Coco Crisp deal – some Sox fans rejoice, some curse the Sox FO. The Sox also get David Riske and Josh Bard.
    8. David Wells – Mr. I want to close out my career on the west coast. Nuff said~
    9. The Sox attempt to trade Manny, most notably with the O’s for Miguel Tejada, but find out that they can’t cut a fair deal with Peter Asshole . . . er, Angelos.
    10. After interviewing several potential candidates for GM and naming Jed and Ben co-GMs, the prodigal son returns to mixed fanfare.
    11. Roger Clemens. Will he return or won’t he? Who knows, but we all know its just a matter of who pays the most because in the end, Roger is only about one thing – money.
    12. The Sox sign Mike Timlin to a hometown discount.
    13. The Sox sign Bronson Arroyo to a hometown discount (against the advice of his agent).
    14. Bronson is flipped to small market Cincy for Wily Mo who at the tender age of 24 can crush the ball when he isn’t whiffing. Most of Sawx Nation rejoices, some are pissed at the FO – a few, like myself rejoice but regret losing Arroyo’s rubber arm, versatility and good nature.
    15. The Sox acquire Agon to play SS for a year while Pedroia continues to marinate in Pawtucket. Sawx Nation loves his glove, they’re worried about his bat. Mixed rejoicing.
    16. Oh yeah. The Sawx trainer and third base coach are let go. Some players are pissed. Most of Sawx Nation shrug.
    17. Sawx Nation collectively agonizes over Curt Schilling and Keith Foulke whose recoveries are critical to any serious attempt at a Series run.
    18. We all wonder who in Hell is going to catch Wake reliably (so he can continue to befuddle the Yanks).
    19. The Sox bring in Tavarez and Saenz (probably mispelled) to further bolster the bullpen.
    20. Sawx Nation follows the development of Papelbon, Lester, Dinardo, and Hansen hoping they’ll turn out to be every bit as good as we think they are.
    21. Robert Petagine gets away from the Sox. Many in Sawx Nation curse Tito for not giving the guy the chance to show what he could do.
    Now, I know I’ve overlooked one or two things and I haven’t even included Johnny D’s departure. But as I said earlier, you have to put this whole Damon thing in context. You accuse most of Sox Nation of having a complex, but you’ve missed the boat. We have a complex alright (and for good reason), but Damon is little more than a footnote. We love our team and most of us are shocked (and some delighted) over the incredible transformation this team has experienced in a few short months. Think about it. How do you think Yankees fans would react if the Yankees fielded five new position players this year (I intentionally refrained from saying five new starting pitchers because I suspect that most Yankees fans would be ecstatic)?
    As far as Coco goes, I’m well aware that he doesn’t have a plus arm. But I wasn’t about to make that argument for you. But . . . whatever~
    Ciao.

    Craig March 22, 2006, 7:39 pm
  • Craig,
    That’s a pretty good assessment of Boston’s offseason. I like your perception, objectivity, and humor.
    I have to beg to differ on Damon though. I still think it was the biggest story of Boston’s offseason, and will once again be a big deal when Damon’s first game at Fenway as a Yankee approaches. I’d say Theo’s situation was second.
    Anyway, it doesn’t really matter. I blew my wad debating this subject with SF. Time to move on to something else.
    I enjoyed reading your posts and look forward to the next one.

    whatever March 22, 2006, 11:39 pm

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