I love the trade deadline. Every year, I get excited (as the post below probably indicates) about all the possibilities — trades that could hapen, would never happen, should happen and finally do happen. It's a thrilling time. Wrapped up in it is the idea that in one day, with one move, your team could drastically change its fortunes.
The Sox are always big deadline players, although they don't always make a deal. But when they do, it's usually noteworthy: In 2004, they traded Nomar Garciaparra in a four-way deal that brought back Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkewicz. In 2007, they traded prospects for Eric Gagne. Last year, they dumped petulant megastar Manny Ramirez in another three-way trade that brought back Jason Bay — an impressive return, even moreso given the circumstances.
The rumors fly, and you never know what to believe, but that doesn't stop us from devouring everything we can — such as this report from Gordon Edes, who says the Sox have offered Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden and Ryan Westmoreland for Roy Halladay.
That's a pretty strong offer, as MLBTradeRumors says, if it's true. I have a hard time believing the Sox are really that interested in Halladay. More likely, it's a bit of Toronto misinformation, trying to get better offers from teams outside their division.
Source: WBZ's Dan Roche says this report is bunk.
36 replies on “So It Begins”
I think it’s a bit of misinformation in order to up the Sox’ chances of landing someone else, like VMart/Lee. If the Indians think the Sox are close to signing Halladay they might reduce their asking price.
That’s a strong offer though.
no hat tip to me Paul?
Haha, sorry, Sam. I found and posted it before I saw your reference in the other thread. I would have given you credit if I’d seen it, though. :-)
I don’t think it’s a strong offer, but it is a smart offer and strong enough, given the reports. If the Phillies offer Drabek the Sox will have to keep adding. I’ll still be surprised if Ricciardi takes it though. As with Lee and Peavy, nothing says he has to make a move right now.
I really admire the Sox for putting offers out there that are just enough but no more. Sometimes it burns them (Teixeira and Damon) but sometimes they get good value (Bay).
I think the Phillies offer was Happ, Carrasco, Dominick Brown and _____, correct? If that is the case and the above offer is true, so much for the Sox having to pay more. I know for sure the Phillies offered Happ and Carrasco, I am unsure about Brown…anyone care to help here?
You’re right, John. That’s why I’m impressed the Sox took that report and upped it just a smidge by offering a better top prospect.
Those of you familiar with Baseball HQ, these are the preseason rankings for the prospects in both offers:
(Don’t remember 4th Player)
Note: Project Prospect has Carrasco as the #14 prospect in all of baseball at mid-season. Dominic Brown at #17. None of the Sox prospects made the top 50, Bowden was in the “Dropped Out” category, but was #47 preseason.
I think Buchholz has more upside than Happ, but even with that said it doesn’t seem like a knock your socks off offer that everyone was reporting was necessary.
Pete Abe is reporting that one of the prospects (Hunter Strickland)traded for Adam LaRoche threw a no hitter today in Low A Ball against Charleston.
Well, it’s not like the Jays have accepted the offer. Looks like the Sox offered something that, if accepted, would make them comfortable and, if not, put Cleveland and San Diego on notice that they were willing to leave them out.
Or Ricciardi is putting out false information in an effort to push the Phillies higher or entice the Yankees into the bidding. Edes would presumably have better Boston sources though.
Dan Roche from WBZ shoots it down via Twitter:
“Source tells me sox have not offered buchholz, bowden and westmoreland for halladay”
Seems to strengthen the idea the report came from Toronto, where Ricciardi and the truth have often had deep mutual suspicion.
If the Jays need Hughes, Joba, and two more highly-rated prospects from the Yankees, this deal certainly doesn’t get it done. I don’t know if I trade Hughes OR Joba straight up for that, much less Montero.
The Sox are going to have to pony up a lot more to sway Toronto. Like Buchholz, Bard, Kelly, Anderson. That kind of package. Otherwise, it really doesn’t hurt.
Yeah, I didn’t think it was a serious offer. The Yankees could simply counter with Hughes, Nova and, like, De Leon.
I just realized I’m going to be somewhere over the Atlantic on Friday during the trade deadline. Ugh that’s going to be a long flight while wondering if anything big goes down.
Sources tell me that the sources are all full of shit, and that the reporters dutifully report the shit.
I love the trade deadline too, because it’s so ridiculous and so full of lies. I find it utterly hilarious.
Indeed SF, have we learned nothing from the Santana sweepstakes?
Just because we know it doesn’t mean we have to hate it.
And, really, wasn’t most of the reporting on the Santana talks accurate as to what the teams offered? Just turns out the Twins were dumb and thought they could do better.
The threads around November 30th 2007 are great to see, in retrospect. Start here. Literally hundreds of comments regarding Santana, the Yanks, the Sox, and speculated players.
Paul: I think it is absolutely impossible to discuss the accuracy of the reporting. The reporting is nothing but the conveyance of rumor by those with conflicts of interest: the interested parties. Believe nothing. Or everything. I know where I stand on it.
I think I will stand by my comment from December 1st, 2007, just replace “meetings” with “time near the deadline”, and the specific teams with “any team involved in trade talks”…
These stories all mean the same thing: nothing. Other than that the clubs are in discussion and jockeying, which we all know is going on because of common sense and because of what I guess are the only 100% truthful statements coming out of the Yankees, Twins, and Sox’ camps: the acknowledgments that there have been trade talks.
Nothing will happen until the meetings, if the Twins are smart, and that’s not for a couple of days. Ignore all the hubbub until a deal is reported. All these stories involve what clubs “might” do, or what they “might not” do. In other words, they involve no actual news.
Posted by: SF | Saturday, December 01, 2007 at 07:56 AM
Wow, it’s great you guys have been around for six years. Those archives are fun reading. Didn’t Gammons report on Santana going to the Sox? I seem to remember that and thinking it was done.
I’m with Paul. These are fun times. Even if the names we hear are only ones being mentioned, it’s still fun to think through.
The thing is though, the Phillies report does seem true. And it’s fun to think about how the Sox could barely edge beyond that offer. This one does seem to fit really well. It doesn’t mean it’s a formal offer, but it could certainly be part of a framework that’s been discussed. It’s seems too good, and too realistic, to be pure bull.
That is a fun read — interesting especially because Lester has exploded into the ace-caliber pitcher we would have gotten from Santana.
I’ll stand by the comments I made to begin the post you linked to, SF. Just replace “offseason” with “trade deadline.”
Whatever happens,* the fun part is undoubtedly the speculation, the rumors, the thrill of possibly getting the Big Fish of the offseason. It’s not as fun as the game itself, but it’ll do in a pinch.
I think we basically agree with each other — that the speculation is fun and the information unreliable until someone’s putting on a cap on a podium. We just have different styles of dealing with the info that’s put out beforehand.
I think Nick’s comment in that thread is quite perceptive, for several reasons. ;-)
Paul, I think of the moderators, you, John and I love the hot stove a lot more than YF, SF and the Gerb. Perhaps, it’s our relative youth compared to those octegenarians:)
Rob, I specifically remember that Gammons report: he said something along the lines of “it’s all but done, Santana is coming to Boston.”
I’m addicted to the rumors/speculation, no matter how full of shit it may be.
Oh, I love these times. I was up scouring SoSH at midnight last night (realize this is VERY late for a father of two) looking for more news. News which I believe to be lies.
It’s very odd.
Okay, here’s the funniest comment, from Jay-YF:
I don’t but the notion that Santana is in some sort of decline. The only knock against him last season was that he gave up 33 home runs. That won’t happen with him pitching half his starts at Yankees stadium.
The thought that Yankees Stadium would help LOWER Santana’s homeruns allowed is hilarious in hindsight, considering how HR friendly it is now.
I don’t remember a Gammons report, but I remember a Will Carroll line saying Santana to Boston was “minutes away” from being completed, or something like that.
Now that Twitter’s on the case, will we see this year a report of “any nanosecond now”?
Along those lines: Top of MLBTR is about Lee to Sox being “close”.
According to the company that owns the Blue Jays, they need to cut costs and are putting Halladay on the trading block.
FenShea, good find. It’s from Bradford’s twitter page here:
Bowden, Reddick and another prospect for Lee. I’m cautious of Lee (he feels like another Pavano/Clement), but this is a good deal if true.
classic that WEEI page is apparently a hoax
He’s reporting someone hacked into his account and a Lee deal isn’t close.
Can we get a Sox gamer? Rice’s number being retired as we speak on TV.
what havoc twitter hath wrought…..
Oh wow, hooray technology. Gotta say I’m happy about that, cause I’m not a Lee fan.
Rice and Nomar share a huge hug on the field.
Fred Lynn, Carlton Fisk, Bob Stanley, Dwight Evans, and Dennis Eckersley in the house too.
Anyone else watching this? Seeing the proud look on Jim’s face, and the tears he and his wife are shedding, is beautiful.
New rumors as of last night:
It appears the Red Sox have amped up their efforts to obtain the Doc, and they’re willing to include Buchholz, one of Lars Anderson, Justin Masterson or Michael Bowden, and lesser prospects to fill out the rest of the offer.