So Much for the High Road…

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Derek Jeter on Papi:

"I’m not thinking about winning an MVP, I’m thinking about winning the division," he said. "Our focus here isn’t on individual awards. We’ve still got something to play for."

79 comments… add one
  • I’m a SF, and I don’t have as much problem with Jeter’s comments as I do with Papi’s. Sure it might be a two wrongs don’t make a right situation, but Papi certainly opened himself up to that kind of comment.
    Was Jeter rubbing it in? Yes. Was he rubbing it in the face of an otherwise class act who decided to make some at least somewhat classless comments yesterday? Yes as well.
    Personally, I do believe David Ortiz is more worried/concerned about team success. But team success is no longer a possibility. I just wish his campaign for MVP had been a little more veiled.

    Quo September 12, 2006, 11:45 am
  • I don’t have as much problem with Jeter’s comments as I do with Papi’s. Sure it might be a two wrongs don’t make a right situation, but Papi certainly opened himself up to that kind of comment.
    100% agreed. But how could I pass up a chance to conflate Derek Jeter and Karl Rove?
    That’s gold, baby!

    SF September 12, 2006, 11:53 am
  • I wish Ortiz would wait ’til after the MVP is awarded to float the conspiracy theory.

    Andrews September 12, 2006, 11:59 am
  • Unfortunately for Ortiz, his comments probably did more harm than good. Not that he was going to win anyways. Has anybody translated Ortiz’ comments into something that Manny will understand? Maybe install it on his ROKR glasses? Cause when he fully comprehends what was inferred I can totally see him going into pout-mode.

    Nate September 12, 2006, 12:19 pm
  • Nate, I don’t believe Ortiz implied anything by his lineup , except that for the last month, until recently, the lineup was at less than half strength. No great surprise there at all.
    Perhaps you inferred too much from the implication ;-)

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 12:39 pm
  • Good point SF. Anything that can simultaneously mock Karl Rove and Derek Jeter is indeed, gold.

    Quo September 12, 2006, 12:39 pm
  • Anyway, I also agree that Ortiz opened himself up to that comment, but it is nice to see Jeter display his own little bit of classlessness. Jeter has long realized that the best way to be considered a class act is by smiling and saying no comment when other people act like jerks — even if you’re a jerk yourself…

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 12:43 pm
  • I don’t think it was classless I think it was an appropriate response to a personal attack thrown his way by Ortiz. All he did was state the facts.

    Jeterluva September 12, 2006, 12:50 pm
  • Jeterluva, the only classy thing for him to do would be to politely smile and decline to comment. He was more classy than Ortiz, I’ll grant, but it was still not the “high road”, which the media (well, McCarver and Kay anyway) have led us to believe is the only one Jeter takes.

    Quo September 12, 2006, 12:57 pm
  • Oh please. I don’t see that as classless by Jeter. The “classy” thing is generally overblown (he typically just manages to keep his mouth shut), but that’s not classless. It would have been even better, perhaps, had he left the last sentence out, but that’s a rather minor quibble.
    And seriously, who in the hell listens to Michael Kay and Tim McCarver anymore?

    Rob (Middletown, CT) September 12, 2006, 1:08 pm
  • Quo, so he should always take the high road. 9 times out of 10 he would have smiled and said no comment. That cannot be expected every time someone runs their mouth about him. He is human and he’s having a great season he was well within his rights to say what he said. Bottom line is that Ortiz was way out of line. Jeter is having a superb season and nobody should try to discredit it. At least this may make the upcoming series actually worth watching.

    Jeterluva September 12, 2006, 1:09 pm
  • Unfortunately Rob, many baseball fans are subjected to one or both of them several times over the course of the season, so unless you mute and listen to the radio broadcast,if possible, you’ll probably hear them speak at some point.
    And the point is not whether Jeter was justified in saying his piece. I said above that he was, in my first comment on this topic. Ortiz’s comments yesterday = Extremely classless and out of character. Jeter’s response = Not as classless and still out of character. Or if you prefer: Jeter = Wrong. Ortiz = Much more wrong, on this particular issue.
    And honestly, Jeterluva, expecting him to take the high road all the time is a bit much, but I would still expect you to be a bit disappointed in him, though that should pale in comparison to how us SFs should be disappointed in Papi.

    Quo September 12, 2006, 1:18 pm
  • This all just makes me laugh cause if Jeter were on the Sox, well just think what the respective fan bases would be saying. You guys are too silly for words.

    Bozo September 12, 2006, 1:21 pm
  • I’m not disappointed I think it’s about time that he defends himself and his team. Now if he had initiated this then maybe I would be disappointed.

    Jeterluva September 12, 2006, 1:26 pm
  • We should realize something: nothing is good enough for YFs when it comes to what SFs say. We admit that Jeter is substantively right in his response, if a bit catty? Nope, not good enough. We admit that Ortiz was stupid and classless? Nope, not enough. We admit that Jeter is a more legit MVP candidate than Ortiz? Nope, still not good enough.
    Nothing can possibly satisfy these insane people. We should know this already, since they own nearly thirty world championships and still have a chip on their shoulder.

    SF September 12, 2006, 1:35 pm
  • SF: What’s the direct URL for Jeter’s quote?

    attackgerbil September 12, 2006, 1:37 pm
  • Quo,
    True, I suppose. I myself use the mute button liberally when Kay is in the YES booth. The alternative is Sterling/Waldman, which is actually worse. And now one of my favorites is retiring (Kaat). When I don’t feel like muting it, I typically spend a good portion of the game commenting on Kay’s idiocy and/or assholery.
    McCarver is more rare, thankfully, because you only get him on FOX broadcasts.

    Rob (Middletown, CT) September 12, 2006, 1:48 pm
  • Jeter’s comment is neither catty nor classless in the slightest. It’s merely a contextualizing comment, actually giving a nod to Papi that he wouldn’t have made his provocative comments if things were different for the Sox right now. And Jeter didn’t bold his comments, SF did. Jeter is saying that the yanks are playing for home field advantage versus the Tigers and the games ahead aren’t just there for him to pad his MVP resume. Jeter never targets the Red Sox in his comments, haven’t you noticed that over the last 11 years? The SF comments about “nothing is good enough for YFs when it comes to what SFs say” is dispicable.

    JD YF September 12, 2006, 1:50 pm
  • And by the way, SF, I think “substantively right if a bit catty” is the fairest description of Jeter’s comments by a Sox fan I’ve seen yet. I’ve no real objection to that description.
    Molehill, thy name is Mountain (this in regards to both Ortiz’s original whine and Jeter’s response thereto).

    Rob (Middletown, CT) September 12, 2006, 1:53 pm
  • SF September 12, 2006, 2:00 pm
  • JD:
    I was slinging that line with my tongue in cheek. But I do think that you guys really expect maybe just a bit too much from the fans of a bitter rival. You have gotten several reasonable concessions (at least out of me) these past two days. Don’t get greedy!!!

    SF September 12, 2006, 2:07 pm
  • SF, fair enough. I think you went looking in the wrong place this time though. (especially since the picture is vomit inducing)

    JD YF September 12, 2006, 2:19 pm
  • “9 times out of 10 he would have smiled and said no comment. That cannot be expected every time someone runs their mouth about him.”
    For a second there, I thought you were talking about Ortiz! Nine times out of 10, Ortiz too is professional and classy and doesn’t sling barbs at other players (and it wasn’t a “personal attack” as Jeterluva says — saying Jeter is having a great season but that he thinks the sluggers should get the MVP is dumb and egotistics, but it wasn’t a “personal attack” by any stretch of the imagination).
    It’s a long season. Otherwise likable, wonderful, team-oriented players, particularly those on teams going nowhere, will say things that sometimes are either unintelligent, egotistical or otherwise “unclassy.” I’d guess that the great majority go unquoted in the papers; the rest, as Rob said, tend to be molehills made into mountains…

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 2:32 pm
  • I’ll weigh in on this, what the hell. I would agree with SF that Jeter’s comments are, indeed, catty—and intentionaly so. As we all have learned over the last decade, when Jeter makes a public comment, it is intentional and thought through. We also all know he is a pretty ruthless competitor, and that he does not consider himself inferior to any player, period. (Note who’s playing third for the Yankees, in case you need a reminder.) This attitude, I would argue, and regardless of its justification, is part and parcel of Jeter’s greatness. He is simply not prepared to cede ground to any player, and when his position as baseball’s alpha dog is questioned, he can be absolutely counted on to defend what he perceives as his rightfully earned position. So you may think he was “wrong” or “classless” to do it, but you can be sure the message was received in clubhouses throughout the league.

    YF September 12, 2006, 2:45 pm
  • is another October collapse really “something to play for”?

    TJ September 12, 2006, 2:46 pm
  • So the message to clubhouses around the league is that a mediocre defender who hits for average but not power and isn’t even the most valuable player on his team considers himself the rightful “alpha male” of baseball?
    Good lord, under that explanation, he’s more of a scumbag than A-Rod!

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 2:51 pm
  • Paul,
    Could you lay off the name calling – jerk, scumbag – please.

    Andrews September 12, 2006, 2:55 pm
  • YF is actually right. All of the above speaks to his greatness. Another thing that would speak to his greatness would be acknowledging that he’s not even the best SS on his own team, making them stronger up the middle defensively. I’ll be the first to admit that a DP combo of A-Rod (SS) and Jeter (2B) would be one of the smoothest in the league. This also would have pre-emptively put the Tony Womack experiment to pasture. Pride and confidence are great assets. So is humility.
    As for baseball’s Alpha Dog? Well. I’m not even going to use Red Sox players here. Albert Pujols? Vladmir Guerrero? Johan Santana? Plenty of candidates for this position, as in the MVP race. Let’s let that phrase die for good, please.

    Quo September 12, 2006, 2:58 pm
  • I think the message is, clearly, keep your comments to yourself. And I don’t think sending it reflects badly on Mr. Jeter.

    YF September 12, 2006, 2:59 pm
  • Woah, Andrews. Wasn’t actually calling Jeter a jerk in that first comment, and in this one, I was referring to the stereotype — which I believe was referenced in the previous A-Rod post — that A-Rod is such a thing.
    If you’ve read my other posts about name-calling on this site, I’m dead on with you about not calling players names. Sorry if I offended, but I think you misinterpreted…

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 3:00 pm
  • I don’t think it does either, YF, at least not as bad as the original statement by Ortiz reflects on Ortiz, but I think your explanation as to why Jeter sent it was a bit overdramatic. I think he was a bit piqued, so he sent back a zinger. Pretty simple…

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 3:02 pm
  • Are these comments available on audio? If so, I think we’d know pretty quickly whether they were intenionally catty or not. I don’t believe they were, but enough people do so I’d like to hear for myself.

    JD YF September 12, 2006, 3:04 pm
  • Paul,
    Fair enough.

    Andrews September 12, 2006, 3:06 pm
  • JD, similarly, I’d like to hear the Ortiz comments. Someone else mentioned somewhere, and I think I agree, that if we heard them in the context of the conversation, they probably wouldn’t sound as bitter… Alas, they have the look of being in a 1-on-1 setting.
    Jeter’s seem to be more public though, at least based on the ESPN story…

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 3:10 pm
  • Yeah, probably both would come off better than given full exposure. As for Ortiz though, I’d paraphrase the old Reggie “straw that stirs the drink” defense:
    Reggie: I was miquoted.
    Someone Else: For 14 pages?
    The longer the rant the less the context can help.

    JD YF September 12, 2006, 3:15 pm
  • True that.

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 3:26 pm
  • Paul SF,
    …wrong again buddy….ortiz’ comments were personal…he actually mentioned jeter by name…it’s low that he has to knock down the other player in his attempt to forward his own candidacy…and you did call jeter a “jerk” in the earlier post “Jeter has long realized that the best way to be considered a class act is by smiling and saying no comment when other people act like jerks — even if you’re a jerk yourself…”…sure looks like you were implying it….jeter’s response to the ortiz comments was calculated and measured, just like always…and it bugs SF’s that he’s right…you’re all way too sensitive.

    Anonymous September 12, 2006, 3:43 pm
  • If you’re so certain you know what I’m thinking, why don’t you put your name to your post? That might add a little credibility to your aalready iffy argument.
    A “personal attack” is one in which someone attacks someone else. Ortiz said Jeter is having a great season. The only negative thing Ortiz said was that Jeter was helped by his lineup — which is absolutely true. It’s also true that Ortiz is helped by his lineup, but to say that Jeter couldn’t put up his numbers without Damon and Rodriguez is not new or negative. It was “personal” only so far as it mentioned Jeter’s name. It was not an attack.
    As for the “jerk” comment, I was saying that the best way to avoid sounding like a jerk — even if you are one — is to smile and no comment. This was pretty clear, as evidenced by the universal “you,” and not by any pronouns that actually refer back to Jeter.
    If you require any more instructions in grammar or English, feel free to ask…

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 3:54 pm
  • Ok, I admit it. That anonymous comment was from me.

    Derek Jeter September 12, 2006, 4:01 pm
  • Wow, first Schilling, now Derek! WOOHOO!!!

    SF September 12, 2006, 4:01 pm
  • Paul SF, I don’t think Ortiz was out to bad mouth or insult Jeter, but he was out to damage or “attack” his MVP candidacy. The term “personal attack” probably isn’t an accurate description, but Papi clearly doesn’t think Jeter should win the award and was not being shy, not only about advocating other players, but in saying someone who doesn’t hit for huge power numbers shouldn’t even be considered.

    JD YF September 12, 2006, 4:02 pm
  • …I didn’t use the word “attack” anywhere in my post…I said his comments were personal because he mentioned jeter by name…he didn’t need to do that…it makes it personal…nice try wiggling out of the “jerk” comment, but the inference is still there for the less educated of us, that you meant ‘even if you are a jerk [as in jeter], the best way to avoid sounding like one is to etc……’…since you’re an expert in grammar, can you tell me what the definition of “is” is..?

    dc September 12, 2006, 4:05 pm
  • Yeah, JD, it’s an opinion about who should and shouldn’t be considered for the MVP — not a very good one, I’ll grant, but it’s certainly not an attack. Besides which, I’m willing to bet Jeter’s name came up as part of the question he was asked…

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 4:06 pm
  • Pot, meet Kettle. Whatever. Neither of these teams need to fan the flames. Jeter saw a chance at a easy shot at the Sox (which Steiny has been known to do from time to time) and perhaps George’s Favorite Son is just being a chip off the ‘ol block.

    Nate September 12, 2006, 4:06 pm
  • Still trotting out that old line, dc? That went out by the time I graduated high school.
    The implication of my statement was that whether or not Jeter is a jerk (I don’t think he is, for whatever it’s worth), he has learned that the best way to avoid sounding like one is to keep quiet. That you drew an incorrect inference from it is unfortunate, but it doesn’t make that inference any less incorrect. Talk about sensitive…

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 4:09 pm
  • Here’s a twist, Ortiz knows his quotes will be taken directly back to Jeter for comment. Giving Jeter the perfect opp to say something like, “I don’t care about individual awards” blah, blah. Which sportswriters LOVE. So they say “that Jeter, that’s the way an MVP really behaves.” So maybe Ortiz really does want Jeter to win it and was just giving him a nice launching pad.

    JD YF September 12, 2006, 4:22 pm
  • …sorry, tortured english was never my strong suit…you stand corrected…are we even?…
    …some of the old jokes are still some of the best, like “1918”…

    dc September 12, 2006, 4:22 pm
  • Like an Aaron Sorkin would have a Democrat help a Republican on the West Wing. Totally incognito.

    JD YF September 12, 2006, 4:23 pm
  • Only a Red Sox fan could spin what Jeter said into an attack on the Red Sox.
    What he said:
    I don’t care about individual achievements, and I’m more concerned with what our team is doing. Stop trying to bait me.
    Of course, Jeter refuses to take the bait, so a Sox fan tries to grab him by the jaw and hook him. Sort of like the Yankee fan who asked Roger Maris to sign his ball with an X, then complained to everyone he signed it with an X.

    Jonah Falcon September 12, 2006, 4:26 pm
  • amen

    dc September 12, 2006, 4:27 pm
  • And for your enjoyment:
    http://mikesrants.baseballtoaster.com/archives/503375.html
    Check Win Shares and VORP. Only two better in the AL than Jeter: Hafner and Santana, and only Santana is a worthy MVP candidate of the two.

    Jonah Falcon September 12, 2006, 4:31 pm
  • Oh, by the way, did Ortiz just claim his teammates STINK? “Come hit in THIS lineup”.
    Hee hee. Wonder what Ortiz would have thought of an OF consisting of Cabrera/Crosby/Guiel, with Nick Green at second and A-Rod in a mega-slump.

    Jonah Falcon September 12, 2006, 4:36 pm
  • Here’s the old and simple “take him away from the team and where are they?” argument:
    Replace Santana with average pitcher: Twins no makey the playoffs.
    Replace Jeter with average shortsop: Yanks still win the division.
    That helps me, at least, assess “value”. Like I said, Jeter’s a legit MVP candidate, he may even win, and nobody could say that it as totally unjust. But I hate that pitchers are largely ignored, for the most part, and that sportswriters lean on the “they can win the Cy Young for their efforts” as the copout. There’s no player who has been more valuable to their specific team to this point in the season than Santana. And that’s said with no disrespect to Ortiz, Jeter, Hafner, et al.

    SF September 12, 2006, 4:38 pm
  • I think even more important, take away Santana, and the Twins might’ve found ways to make the Indians and the Royals look good this year, that’s how much of a drop there could’ve been, in my opinion.
    And the stat involving Hafner is all you need to say about Ortiz’s candidacy. He has, this year, been Ortiz plus a LITTLE something extra. And I say this with as much man-love for Papi as perhaps anyone can muster. I think, had Hafner remained healthy, smashing Mattingly’s grand slam record might have earned him more votes than most people think. With all the slumps the Indians players have gone through this year, difficulties on defense, pitching inconsistencies, a bullpen that makes the Red Sox bullpen seem reasonable, the Indians might’ve finished behind the Royals without ol’ Pronk.
    That being said, if I had a vote, I’d vote for Papi while openly declaring myself a “homer”.

    Quo September 12, 2006, 4:47 pm
  • SF, how about this one, and I’m not sure how to arrive at the answer. Add Jeter to the Twins (without Johan). Do they make the play-offs? Put Johan on the Yanks, they still win the division by a lot. I think it’s reasonable to assume that if both players were traded for each other, the Yanks would be in a similar position and the Twins would be in a similar position. Am I wrong? Does this prove anything?

    Nick-YF September 12, 2006, 4:57 pm
  • Nick – without Johan, the twins are nowhere near the playoffs. Be serious, guy.

    Brad September 12, 2006, 5:14 pm
  • Also, I don’t even know why it’s a debate. Dye is easily the best player in the AL this year. It’s not even close. No matter how you look at it, he wins every time. Unless of course you factor in the reputation and great smelling cologne, then it’s Jeter all the way in a landslide.

    Brad September 12, 2006, 5:15 pm
  • Let’s see.
    First, isn’t that a picture of SF thumbing his nose at Yankee fans after Captain Jeter has been classier than Papi?
    Second, even Sox fans see that Papi came off worse here than Jeets, so this is funny why?
    Third, somebody brings in win shares and SF continues his fantasy life: Take Jeter off the Yankees…
    Jeter is the captain and the leader of the clubhouse because he’s earned it. He contributes with his bat, his play, his baserunning and his leadership. He doesn’t let his teammates slack off.
    Put A-Gon on the Yankees and they don’t win every year.
    Papi’s a great hitter, he’s carried the team a lot, and his teammates love him — but maybe he would be a better MVP candidate if he were more concerned about his team’s nosedive and less concerned about his own awards. His comments do come off as a criticism of his teammates, but not in a way that will rally them.
    If the Yanks had claimed Manny off waivers, they wouldn’t let Manny be Manny, and he would be an even better player than he is.
    I’d probably pick Papi over Jeter, but his comments are dumb. He knows that MVPs usually come from winning teams, and he’s falling all over his teammates in his rush for personal glory. He gives no credit to play in the field (dumb), and he might try losing a few pounds for the good of the team.

    LouGYF September 12, 2006, 5:17 pm
  • I think the Twins with Jeter and without Santana (with a league average pitcher) would be a decent team, but probably not a playoff team. I have no way of proving this, of course.
    Santana on the Yankees with an average shortstop would basically lock in a World Championship, I’d bet (almost) everything I have on it, if that transaction were executed while leaving everything else on this NY team as currently constructed.
    Again, any time one can conflate the Yankees (or anything Yankee) with the imbeciles running our country you gotta jump on it. Also, it was the best picture I could find of someone thumbing their nose at another, which Jeter was most definitely doing. I hope that you got that.
    And I won’t touch the juvenilia of “lose some weight, Papi”. Yeesh, that’s weak.

    SF September 12, 2006, 5:51 pm
  • What if Johan got hurt but Liriano did not, where would the Twins be now? Safe to say close to the same position.
    and I think Santana should finish MVP top 5 along with Jeter, Dye, Ortiz, Frank Thomas.
    Order should be decided when games are done.
    Another what if…Jeter batted 3 or 4 and focused on slightly increasing his power (he was a 20+ hr hitter) and hit 25 130. Would that legitimize him as a candidate? I dont think so, I think that would weaken his case (at least those numbers while on the yankees, MVP for sure if he put that up replacing crosby on Oakland)
    For the record I think if Jeter and Gonzo were switched the records would be switched but if Ortiz and Giambi were swapped not much change (except of course tired players not getting to rest via the DH day off)

    Seth September 12, 2006, 6:06 pm
  • “If the Yanks had claimed Manny off waivers, they wouldn’t let Manny be Manny, and he would be an even better player than he is.”
    What an odd statement, considering the Yanks have let Sheffield be Sheffield for a couple years now. Something tells me Jeter is/would be smart enough to let Manny continue being Manny as long as Manny kept putting up huge numbers — particularly since no one has ever described Manny as anything but a joy in the clubhouse. Words that I’ve not heard said about Gary when he’s being Gary.

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 6:07 pm
  • This recently posted on the Boston Globe’s Web site should put an end to the comments, here and elsewhere by yahoos who suggest Ortiz is being selfish:
    Ortiz catching unfair heat
    By Gordon Edes, Globe Staff
    David Ortiz, needless to say, is unhappy to hear about headlines like the one that appeared in today’s NY Post, which read “Ortiz Disses Jeter,” or the photo of him that appears in the USA Today with the caption that says he believes he should be MVP.
    The reason he’s upset is because he said nothing of the sort. I know, because I’m the reporter he talked to after Sunday’s game, a conversation that began with me asking Ortiz what he thought his chances were of winning the MVP. He formed a big fat zero with his hand.
    He then made the point that he felt the big boppers, the guys who drive in 120 and hit 40 or more, are more deserving of the MVP than a Derek Jeter — who he stressed was having a great year — because they do more for their team. He also said that if he hits 50 and knocks in 15-20 more runs than anybody else, he should still be considered a candidate, even if the Sox have fallen out of the race, citing the precedent of A-Rod winning for a last-place Texas team in 2002.
    That has been twisted into Ortiz being selfish, Ortiz campaigning for himself, Ortiz putting down Jeter, ridiculous.
    And of course, with the Sox headed for NYC this weekend, the circus will only continue.

    I'm Bill McNeal September 12, 2006, 6:28 pm
  • um..ok. That’s one way to spin his comment.

    Nick-YF September 12, 2006, 6:30 pm
  • Wow.
    This crap is really getting tiresome.
    Cockfight, anyone?
    I’m going back to my life.

    I'm Bill McNeal September 12, 2006, 6:35 pm
  • my other life is posting on the Derek and Stacey thread. See you there in five, Bill!

    Nick-YF September 12, 2006, 6:37 pm
  • I wouldn’t call it spin, Nick — it’s exactly what I’ve been saying I thought he meant for the last two days. He didn’t attack or diss Jeter, he just made an opinion about what type of hitter he thought should win the award that wasn’t very thoughtful. It didn’t come off looking good, and it’s not something he should have said, but I do think it’s a bit overreactive to say he slammed Jeter or launched a campaign on his own behalf…
    The only thing he doesn’t explain there is the “come hit in this lineup” comment, which I figure is an allusion to the injury situation that left his protection out for the better part of two weeks, but still I’m curious…

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 6:40 pm
  • The funniest thing about the Derek and Stacy thread is that people still comment there, and they never comment on any of the other posts in the site. Is there some crazy Google search that directs non-Yankee-Sox/non-baseball fans who are obsessed with Derek Jeter to that page?

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 6:42 pm
  • that could be true, Paul, but it’s a pretty generous interpretation that’s not afforded to most players.

    Nick-YF September 12, 2006, 6:47 pm
  • Most players aren’t David Ortiz ;-) I figure you gotta give him some benefit of the doubt — he’s never shown the kind of attitude attributed to those comments before.

    Paul SF September 12, 2006, 6:49 pm
  • Back page of NY Post today
    “Derek And Goliath”

    Seth September 12, 2006, 6:50 pm
  • Yes, because Derek and his 17M per year contract, four rings, and heartthrob status qualify him, according to the NY tabs, as the David figure in this battle. Only in NY…

    SF September 12, 2006, 7:43 pm
  • Has anybody taken into consideration that Ortiz speaks with a hell of an accent and that maybe his comments were not only taken out of context but not understood fully? The guy comes across as a personable and witty guy when you read what he says in the paper, but when he sits down for extended interviews it seems like he has trouble fully explaining what he wants to say.. no shame in that, plenty of Latino ballplayers have thick accents,look no further than Ozzie Guillen.

    Chuck September 12, 2006, 8:11 pm
  • That has been twisted into Ortiz being selfish, Ortiz campaigning for himself, Ortiz putting down Jeter
    Twisted? Uhhh…Nothing was twisted. Ortiz was being selfish. He was campaigning for himself and he was putting down Jeter.
    Worrying about whether or not you should win the MVP instead of being concerned more with your team is selfish. Telling people if he gets to certain numbers by the end of the season, he should win is campaigning for the award. As for Jeter, Papi says:
    It doesn’t matter how much you’ve done for your ball club, the bottom line is, the guy who hits 40 home runs and knocks in 100, that’s the guy you know helped your team win games.
    IE, Jeter doesn’t help his team win games because he doesn’t hit 40 home runs a year.
    And then he says:
    “…he’s got a lot of guys in that lineup. Top to bottom, you’ve got a guy who can hurt you. Come hit in this lineup, see how good you can be.”
    IE, Jeter succeeds only because of the guys he has around him.
    Bottom line: He was downplaying Jeter’s contributions.
    As for what Jeter said, Pumpkin Head didn’t deserve the high road for his asinine comments and Jeter’s quip was tame. It was the high road considering what he could have said.

    Jay September 12, 2006, 9:56 pm
  • ok, papi is looking better now – apparently he doesn’t take sf’s delight in trying to stir things up
    as for sheff versus — they’re both great hitters, with manny getting the slight edge most of the time, but no one’s going to turn down sheff
    off the field he can be a little odd, but on the field he always plays hard, unlike another hitter i can think of. and is there a better example of a hitter playing hurt? i’m sure manny plays hurt sometimes too, but other times he decides he needs a little break and his hamstring acts up.

    LouGYF September 13, 2006, 7:36 am
  • ouch! take a look at the cape cod times quote on the sox at dirtdogs. the post runs stories like that when the yanks slump too. do they do it to just stir things up and sell more papers, or are there reporters just bozos? (no offense, bozo)

    LouGYF September 13, 2006, 7:44 am
  • One: dirt dogs is a flamethrowing finger-in-the-wind Sox site, and though they’ve linked to us a few times, I don’t feel any debt to them to sugarcoat what they are, which is a website on par with the worst of sports talk radio. That they seemingly “represent” intelligent Sox fans or claim to be a voice of ours is infuriating.
    Two: as for the Cape Cod Times, well, it’s the CAPE COD TIMES, for heck’s sake.

    SF September 13, 2006, 10:16 am
  • Well, here’s Sox Fan and Top Author Seth Mnookin on Manny:

    In the five-plus years that Ramirez has been in Boston, one of the most enigmatic players ever to wear a major league uniform has been the focal point of any number of controversies. Ramirez was signed by former Red Sox GM Dan Duquette, and the Red Sox and Ramirez have been on the verge of severing ties on any number of occasions since John Henry and Tom Werner bought the team in 2001. (You’ll need to read the book to find out the real stories behind the various times Ramirez and the Red Sox have come close to parting company.)

    He goes on to say that of course his teammates and the team want him (although Theo obviously had second thoughts at one point). We’ll never know, but I do think Joe, Jeter and the clubhouse would take a different attitude towards Manny then “let Manny be Manny.” Jeets and Sheff have never been shy about speaking up about their teammates. Derek’s more discrete about the players on the other teams (like Papi).

    There are those odd times when Ramirez decides he needs a day off, but he’s averaged 143 games a year since 1995; since coming to the Sox, he’s averaged 144 a year. This year, Ramirez looks like he’s heading towards his twelfth straight year of 30-plus home runs and 100-plus RBIs: as of this morning, he has 20 homers, 51 RBIs, and an OPS of 1.027. There have been plenty of times the Red Sox have been frustrated by Ramirez’s petulance, his intermittently lackadaisical fielding, and his failure to hustle. But the Red Sox realize that Ramirez is rarely a clubhouse distraction, they appreciate his consistency, and are often as awed by his hitting prowess as the rest of us.

    http://www.sethmnookin.com/

    LouGYF September 13, 2006, 10:32 am
  • “Ortiz was being selfish. He was campaigning for himself and he was putting down Jeter.”
    Answering a question about your MVP chances is not being selfish, and it’s not campaigning. It’s answering a question about your MVP chances. Putting down Jeter by saying he wouldn’t do as well in a lesser lineup? OK, but it’s still true, and he still said, “He’s having a great season” and his comments today make it clear that he has nothing but respect for Jeter.

    Paul SF September 13, 2006, 10:40 am
  • Hey guys you really have a nice site.If you get a chance please check out mine at http://www.acheapseat.com

    joseph ruso September 24, 2006, 4:58 pm

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