Sox Trade For Martinez, Kotchman

USA Today's Bob Nightengale tweets.

HT: MLBTradeRumors

1:02 (my time) – Ed Price retweets: Source: "Looks good" for Victor Martinez to #RedSox, confirming @BNightengale report

1:07 — Joel Sherman says the Rays were the only other pursuer and they were out of it days ago.

1:13 — Rosenthal and Morosi say the Sox are "on the verge," and that it's a "straight up" two-team deal.

1:16 — Sherman's "gut" says it's Buchholz, and on SOSH, this post, presumably from someone watching NESN:

Gammons sent a text to Merloni saying it is just about done. Buchholz. Ugh.
Ugh, indeed.
 
1:21 — Heyman confirms. Doesn't know whether Buchholz is included.
 
1:25 — Those watching ESPN say the network has said no names have been reported yet, seemingly contradicting their own reporter (not that he's much of a reporter anymore, sadly).
 
1:28 — HALLELUJAH!

The Indians' exact return is not known, but the Red Sox did not include either right-hander Clay Buchholz nor right-hander Daniel Bard in the deal, according to a source.

1:34 — MLB.com's Jonathan Mayo says Nick Hagadone may be part of the deal.

1:39 — Mayo says Masterson also included. Did the Sox just get Martinez without giving up Buchholz or Bowden??

1:40 — Heyman says deal is done, Buchholz not included.

1:47 — Mayo's got the source here apparently, as he says Sox and Tribe are still looking at names to add to the deal.

1:50 — Heyman confirms Masterson is included.

1:54 — Nightengale says the deal is to be announced shortly.

1:56 — Meanwhile, Mike Silva at NYBaseballDigest says that with the Martinez deal in place, Adam LaRoche is likely headed to the Mets.

1:58 — Nightengale says deal is done.

1:59 — Heyman tweets the Sox are now "shopping" LaRoche, and that the Braves are interested.

2:10 — MLBTradeRumors via Twitter says Verducci on MLB Network named Bryan Price as another piece going to Cleveland.

2:19 — Ed Price says LaRoche is headed to Atlanta.

2:25 — NESN reports it's for Casey Kotchman. Surely he's part of another trade, right? Never mind. Upon further review, Kotchman should provide some good late-inning defensive help.

2:41 — Nightengale: Kotchman is staying put in Boston. They love him off the bench.

With that, I think we can close this round of updates and start a new post for any new trades in the next 18 minutes.

185 comments… add one

  • If it’s for Buck, the backside of this rotation is even more purely kerosene than it was an hour ago. Hopefully it’s for player/s that will make Yankee fans bark out “WTF!?”.
    I fear not, though.

    SF July 31, 2009, 2:03 pm
  • Yeah, what the Sox give up is really the key to how pleased I am about this.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:04 pm
  • Please be for Buck and please be the only trade for them.

    sam-YF July 31, 2009, 2:04 pm
  • I don’t think it is for Buchh. I don’t think they’ll do that unless something else is in the works somewhere.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 2:05 pm
  • Twitter is awesome by the way for this stuff.

    sam-YF July 31, 2009, 2:06 pm
  • There is no way that Theo would weaken the rotation for a hitter without something else being down the road a bit.
    My bet:
    Masterson
    Bowden
    2 other players not on the radar.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 2:06 pm
  • I don’t think they’ll do that unless something else is in the works somewhere.
    It better not be “in the works”, it better be DONE. Buck for Martinez would be, to me, not a great move for the team as currently concocted.
    I predict it will be something like Bowden, Masterson, and/or a PTBNL for Martinez, if this is true.

    SF July 31, 2009, 2:07 pm
  • Ha, Brad, we are thinking alike.

    SF July 31, 2009, 2:08 pm
  • This is the deal I figured would happen. Assuming he’s primarily replacing Lowell (or will Lowell DH and Papi be relegated ot the bench?) in the order, it’s potentially a nice little boost to their order. I don’t know enough about how Victor rates as a 1B or You as a 3B (though he has to be better than Lowell was this year) to say what the impact will be there.
    So it looks like a solid addition for the Sox – of course how good of a deal it is depends on the package.

    Mark-YF July 31, 2009, 2:08 pm
  • The longer SI and ESPN take to confirm it, the more suspicious I get that it’s actually true.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 2:09 pm
  • Stark’s reporting it’s for Buchholz, plus other prospects “flying” in both directions:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4368061

    Mark-YF July 31, 2009, 2:10 pm
  • If the deal gets done without Buchholz — and I figure it does because otherwise it weakens this team, as SF says — then that leaves the Sox open to continue pursuit of Halladay.
    This is really a skeleton story so far. We don’t know if there are other big leaguers involved, a third team, or anything else, so I guess nothing to do but wait. I’m monitoring Twitter and updating the main post as I see more info.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:11 pm
  • Stark’s report may be a bit old (last updated about 100 minutes ago), though

    Mark-YF July 31, 2009, 2:12 pm
  • There has to be a third team somewhere because Laroche is the odd man out somewhere, and there is no way Theo makes a move that involves the rotation without making sure someone is there to fill a hole.
    Theo has never been the big bat, no pitching type of GM.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 2:13 pm
  • No, that’s an old report, Mark, and it included a third team.
    Rosenthal and Morosi now say this is only a two-team deal, so I would say the Stark piece should be entirely disregarded.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:15 pm
  • Again though, if we learned anything from last year, it’s that we really need to wait though.
    Manny was traded and not traded 15 times to ten different teams in three hours.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 2:15 pm
  • Twins got O-Cab

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2009, 2:16 pm
  • If it’s Buchholz count me as very pleased as a YF and very surprised at Theo et al. They could have made that deal months ago.
    Sure, he makes them better this year. But all he does is lengthen the lineup. It’s not like he’s a scary bat. He’s good but not great.
    By the way, great job getting LaRoche. Talk about pointless. Theo et al looking a bit clueless.

    Rob July 31, 2009, 2:16 pm
  • If this is for Buchholz, it’s a terrible deal and I’m incredibly disappointed in Theo. If we were giving up Clay it needed to be as part of a package to acquire Halladay or Gonzalez or someone a lot better than Victor Martinez.

    Micah-SF July 31, 2009, 2:21 pm
  • Sure, he makes them better this year.
    I disagree. It would make the offense better, but significantly weaken the rotation, absent a deal for Halladay before the deadline. We’ll see, but if it’s Martinez for Buchholz, as Gammons implies (see above) I’m not terribly happy.
    Martinez would split time at C/1B/DH, with Martinez/Varitek at C, Youkilis/Lowell at 3B, Youkilis/LaRoche at 1B and Ortiz/Lowell at DH. Seems like there should be enough ABs in there somewhere, right?

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:21 pm
  • Rob, you can’t say Theo et al look clueless before you see the details of the trade. They got LaRoche for nothing, and he’s a somewhat productive player.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 2:21 pm
  • Heyman confirms “vmart headed to boston,” but “is buchholz in it?”

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:23 pm
  • Kind of jumping the gun, aren’t you Rob? Do you have details that we don’t? How do you know there is no other move to be made?
    Plus, even if there isn’t, having Adam La Roche on the bench is a nice thing to have.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 2:23 pm
  • If it’s Buck, I guess that means that Michael Bowden is getting his cup of coffee, or perhaps a box of coffee…

    SF July 31, 2009, 2:24 pm
  • Seems like there should be enough ABs in there somewhere, right?
    Not for LaRoche.
    As for the rotation, if they weren’t moving Penny or Smoltz or Wakefield, then where was the place for Buchholz? Sure, they could have moved Smoltz to the pen, but for a rookie? Sorta defeats why they signed him and he’s overpriced as a middle reliever mop up guy.
    Again why both Penny and Smoltz never made sense to me.

    Rob July 31, 2009, 2:25 pm
  • Rob, if LaRoche isn’t getting significant at-bats it’s a good thing – it means everyone ahead of him is healthy and producing. LaRoche provides what every good bench player provides – insurance.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 2:28 pm
  • Looks like the Adrian Gonzalez price just got too high, I guess. If this trade happens, I think it’s safe to say we’re not getting A-Gon, at least this year.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:28 pm
  • Plus, even if there isn’t, having Adam La Roche on the bench is a nice thing to have.
    To do what? A .780 OPS isn’t exactly pinch hitting material.
    They got LaRoche for nothing, and he’s a somewhat productive player.
    Really? The guy they traded just no-hit the Yankees low-A team. And a .780 OPS at 1B is pretty bad. It’s no better than Ortiz or Lowell.

    Rob July 31, 2009, 2:28 pm
  • Fox sports says that neither Buchholz or Bard are in the deal.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 2:29 pm
  • LaRoche provides what every good bench player provides – insurance
    So did Mark Kotsay.

    Rob July 31, 2009, 2:29 pm
  • If neither Bard nor Buchholz are in, that says Bowden to me.
    I am fine with that.

    Micah-SF July 31, 2009, 2:29 pm
  • HALLELUJAH! No Buchholz, FOX says!

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:30 pm
  • So did Mark Kotsay.
    Rob, you have ceded credibility in this discussion if you are comparing Adam LaRoche to Mark Kotsay.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:31 pm
  • Also proves they were never high on Buchholz – showing why they signed both Penny and Smoltz. That decision, alone, could cost you a playoff berth. I don’t think it will. But giving 30 starts to Penny and Smoltz ahead of Buchholz is unbelieveable.
    Sox let their emotional assessment of the player get in the way of seeing his true talent.

    Rob July 31, 2009, 2:31 pm
  • The Indians’ exact return is not known, but the Red Sox did not include either right-hander Clay Buchholz nor right-hander Daniel Bard in the deal, according to a source.

    From Fox.
    NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING.

    SF July 31, 2009, 2:31 pm
  • So, how clueless is he if it isn’t part of the deal?

    Brad July 31, 2009, 2:31 pm
  • Rob, you have ceded credibility in this discussion if you are comparing Adam LaRoche to Mark Kotsay.
    Not if LaRoche is now “insurance” eight days after they got him.

    Rob July 31, 2009, 2:32 pm
  • Steve Phillips saying that if it is Buck for Martinez straight up, it’s not a good deal for Cleveland, that they should have gotten more for Martinez.

    SF July 31, 2009, 2:33 pm
  • Sox let their emotional assessment of the player get in the way of seeing his true talent.
    Or, you’re jumping the gun, and the Red Sox didn’t give him up at all, and gasp, someone besides Red Sox fans wanted someone else other than Clay Buchhohlz in a deal.
    Or I’m wrong. We don’t know yet.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 2:33 pm
  • So, how clueless is he if it isn’t part of the deal?
    Let’s see the result.
    Giving thirty starts to Penny/Smoltz and trading for a 1B only to acquire another 8 days later are both pretty dumb decisions.
    I have to run. Enjoy the next two hours.

    Rob July 31, 2009, 2:34 pm
  • You are really a piece of work.
    My wife thinks so. Priceless, in fact.
    But I don’t take you opinion of me seriously. Not after how many times you’ve called me out here then been proven utterly wrong.

    Rob July 31, 2009, 2:36 pm
  • I have to run. Enjoy the next two hours.
    We certainly will, now.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:36 pm
  • Hagadone part of the deal? Jonathan Mayo says that’s what he’s hearing.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:37 pm
  • masterson in the deal too…http://twitter.com/JonathanMayoB3

    sam-YF July 31, 2009, 2:38 pm
  • Wow, now I’m getting from all sides. Looking forward to you guys comparing the archives here of A-Rod’s press conference with Papi’s.
    Nah, but Papi has a nice smile and A-Rod cheats on his wife.

    Rob July 31, 2009, 2:39 pm
  • Sitting here wishing and hoping they gave up something significant, but in the end I know they probably just gave up some Snickelfritz. Damn you Theo and your jedi mind tricks…

    John - YF July 31, 2009, 2:40 pm
  • SoSH poster saying, on inside source, Masterson in the deal.

    SF July 31, 2009, 2:41 pm
  • Heyman says deal is done, Buchholz not included.
    Mayo says Hagadone and Masterson are in the deal. No word yet on any others.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:41 pm
  • Wow, now I’m getting from all sides. Looking forward to you guys comparing the archives here of A-Rod’s press conference with Papi’s.
    Nah, but Papi has a nice smile and A-Rod cheats on his wife.

    I thought you had somewhere to be?

    SF July 31, 2009, 2:43 pm
  • If the Sox got Martinez without giving up Buchholz OR Bowden, this is really a steal.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:44 pm
  • LaRoche to the Mets?

    sam-YF July 31, 2009, 2:44 pm
  • EEI saying Masterson and Hagadone and that’s it so far.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 2:44 pm
  • Nah, but Papi has a nice smile and A-Rod cheats on his wife.
    Well, if the Red Sox got a steal on this, his only argument is that the Sox wasted their breath on LaRoche, which in fact, is wrong. If they gave up only Masterson and a A ball pitcher for Martinez, there really isn’t any way to shit on that either.
    But, I’m sure the “martinez is only average” shit will start coming soon.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 2:46 pm
  • I still think that the bigger move, even with this one, the Halladay move will be the bigger one later – albeit probably not Boston, but rather New York.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 2:52 pm
  • Heyman confirms Masterson involved in the deal.
    Then this intriguing tweet from Nightengale:
    Just think if the Red Sox were able to pull off the deal for Felix Hernandez, too? Wow.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:52 pm
  • Heyman and Stark/Gammons had reported previously that the Sox were among six teams who approached Seattle about King Felix and were denied. The M’s say they’re listening though. The Sox still have all their key pieces…

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 2:54 pm
  • Drive fast, motherf*cker!!!!
    http://tinyurl.com/l2463h
    (if true, of course)

    SF July 31, 2009, 2:54 pm
  • hahahah.
    That’s funny, SF..

    Brad July 31, 2009, 2:55 pm
  • The King Felix rumors are mean. I want them so badly to be true and there’s no way it will actually happen. :(

    Micah-SF July 31, 2009, 2:57 pm
  • As an aside to that, I’ll be at both games this weekend if one of you regular guys wanna grab a beer at the park.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 2:57 pm
  • Along with the LaRoche-to-Mets rumor, I’ve updated above that Heyman says the Sox are now shopping LaRoche and that the Braves are interested.
    One hour to go!

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:00 pm
  • One hour!

    SF July 31, 2009, 3:00 pm
  • What are the odds that the Sox can trade LaRoche to prospects, then flip them plus Buchholz and others to Toronto for Halladay or Seattle for Felix?

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:01 pm
  • Low, Paul. Very low. But it would be fantastic, wouldn’t it?

    Micah-SF July 31, 2009, 3:02 pm
  • What do we want from the Mets for laRouche?

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2009, 3:03 pm
  • But it would be fantastic, wouldn’t it?
    A boy’s gotta dream.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:04 pm
  • Exciting! Though not really a shore-up on defense. I’d still be more excited for a good starter (not even of Halladay/Felix quality, though that would be amazing).

    Devine July 31, 2009, 3:07 pm
  • Come on, Paul, what are you smoking? What are they going to get for LaRoche?

    SF July 31, 2009, 3:07 pm
  • We could theoretically find out about deals past 4 right?
    The cutoff is 4 but the cutoff to make them public isn’t 4 right?

    John -YF July 31, 2009, 3:10 pm
  • Imagine Manny and Gonzo in the same lineup? Yikes.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 3:10 pm
  • I’m not saying it will be anything special, but if it’s pieces the Sox can use that duplicate pieces from their own system they don’t want to give up for whatever reason, it’s a way to leverage additional resources to bring back a top player.
    Hopefully, Theo’s good enough to get back better than Argenis Diaz and Hunter Strickland. If he is, he can send those players right along and not rob his own organization of the depth/lottery potential that level of player provides.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:11 pm
  • Bryan Price also going to Cleveland? I don’t follow prospects so I don’t know who he is.

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2009, 3:12 pm
  • Good deal for the Sox, of course, Eric Gagne was a good deal for them as well…but they didn’t give up Buchholz, which is the main thing for them, if they had it would have been a fleecing by Cleveland. As long as they didn’t get Gonzalez or Halladay, they still trail the Yanks, but this way they at least muddy up the waters a bit.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:14 pm
  • Never heard of him either. He apparently pitches for A-ball Greenville, where he has an ERA of 4.67…

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:15 pm
  • Good deal for the Sox, of course, Eric Gagne was a good deal for them as well…
    Seriously, Andrew?

    Brad July 31, 2009, 3:18 pm
  • It is apparently impossible for Andrew to deliver an unqualified praise of any aspect of the Red Sox organization.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:19 pm
  • Yanks acquire Jerry Hairston, hopefully that means Ransom is outta here, Sox traded LaRoche to the Braves, not the Mets.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:19 pm
  • Okay, it’s definitely a good deal for the Sox, given the context.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:19 pm
  • LaRoche to braves.

    John -YF July 31, 2009, 3:20 pm
  • As long as they didn’t get Gonzalez or Halladay, they still trail the Yanks
    hahahahahahahaha.
    So earlier, there was no way Boston makes this deal without Buchholz, and now it doesn’t matter becuase they still trail the Yankees? What’s next – “it’s a good move for Boston, but really, Victor Martinez is not really that good at all – an average bat in the back of a bad lineup”?

    Brad July 31, 2009, 3:20 pm
  • Ed Price says LaRoche is headed to Atlanta.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:20 pm
  • MLBTR reporting that yanks get jerry hariston jr

    sam-YF July 31, 2009, 3:20 pm
  • sox acquire casey kotchman for laroche.

    sf rod July 31, 2009, 3:21 pm
  • My addendum is that it will be interesting to see how the trade turns out down the line, as midseason deals like Eric Gagne were thought of as fleecings as well, only for it to turn out the other way. But if I’m the Red Sox, I make the trade without blinking. It’s a good one. Unqualified.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:21 pm
  • Yankees continue to stock their team with steroid users. Dirtballs.
    (kidding.)

    SF July 31, 2009, 3:21 pm
  • See, Andrew, that wasn’t so hard. ;-)

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:22 pm
  • There are too many things going on here.
    I really think that something is going on here. Why would they get Kotchman.
    Something big is getting ready to happen, and I think it’s going to involve someone we don’t want to be traded.
    What must be going through Youkilis’ mind right now? Is he going to be a part of a deal – his contract is a steal for years to come now.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 3:24 pm
  • I like this move. Trade from strength, keep your most valuable chits. The Sox can slot Bowden into Masterson’s spot in the pen (or use someone else, I suppose) without too much potential for disaster. Hopefully they can upgrade from Smoltz/Penny, but I am not thinking that is likely.
    If any of the three guys in the deal turn out to be brilliant, then that’s great for the Indians, meanwhile the Sox have a player for this year and next, who can produce (Bay/Lowell insurance?). This isn’t just a rental, so that’s nice.

    SF July 31, 2009, 3:25 pm
  • I didn’t say it didn’t matter, Brad.
    And I think I said it before, but I only said they don’t get Halladay or A-Gon without Buchholz. I already knew the Sox turned down the Martinez-Buchholz deal.
    Try to express your excitement without flying off the handle at a Yankees fan.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:25 pm
  • Kotchman? He’s got to be going somewhere else. Could Paul have nailed it?!

    SF July 31, 2009, 3:25 pm
  • I dont’ follow all this stuff like you guys do. Someone explain the larouche kotchman trade to me – is that an upgrade?

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2009, 3:25 pm
  • Hey, good deal acquiring Kotchman for LaRoche. Kotchman has upside, and is a good glove at first base.
    I agree this could be part of a bigger trade.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:26 pm
  • I think Andrew has been…rather civil recently, really. And I thank you for that, Andrew. If you care.

    Devine July 31, 2009, 3:26 pm
  • Heh, the Sox finally acquired the hitter they’ve always coveted from last year’s Braves-Angels trade. Mark who?

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:27 pm
  • As long as we don’t get into personal insults, we can bash whatever players or teams we want. I think I’ve tried to follow that rule.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:28 pm
  • And why do the Yanks want Hairston?

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2009, 3:28 pm
  • ry to express your excitement without flying off the handle at a Yankees fan.
    I’m not really flying off the handle, man. Nor, am I really all that excited. I think he helps the team, and didn’t cost too much, but I really wanted a pitcher. But, it was a good move.
    I really think something else is going to happen as this deal was just confirmed and done.

    Brad July 31, 2009, 3:29 pm
  • That’s an interesting angle, Paul. The Braves have now sent Saltalamacchia, Andrus, and two others into…Adam LaRoche. Who they had before, and traded away to get Mike Gonzalez, their erstwhile closer/setup man.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:29 pm
  • Kotchman is a younger LaRoche, with a better glove and less power. For years now I have waited for Kotchman to blossom and he has been a light hitting, all glove 1Bman. Just like James Loney. He’s a bench player in Boston if he sticks. Nothing to get excited over.
    On the Yankees front, Hairston is just slightly better than Ransom, he’s 33, he used to run, but doesn’t anymore…Super move Cash.

    John - YF July 31, 2009, 3:30 pm
  • 30 minutes.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:31 pm
  • I used to love Hairston, he stole 30+ bases for me at the 2B position in my first foray into fantasy baseball. At least he’s better than Ransom, and I think he can play CF.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:32 pm
  • Yanks are reportedly close to getting Halladay.

    Nick-YF July 31, 2009, 3:32 pm
  • Is this another mind-screw, Nick?

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:33 pm
  • Nick is trying to make my head explode.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:33 pm
  • Made you look.

    Nick-YF July 31, 2009, 3:33 pm
  • Nick..not nice.
    Scott plays CF, I don’t think Jerry does. I’ll check now.

    John - YF July 31, 2009, 3:34 pm
  • I personally heard they were close to acquiring Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:34 pm
  • My apologies, Paul, about being skeptical about what the Sox could get for LaRoche. Kotchman is no All-Star, but he’s certainly a good haul for a guy like LaRoche. You were right on.

    SF July 31, 2009, 3:35 pm
  • All INF positions but 1B, C and he plays LF. Not sure about CF. Either way he’s more versatile than Ransom.

    John - YF July 31, 2009, 3:36 pm
  • J Hairston has played about 17 innings in CF this year. So, he’s just a better version of Jerry Hairston.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:36 pm
  • Made you look.
    Yes, you did. :-P
    Yeah, on further review, Kotchman is a pretty good pickup as a backup 1Bman. Not in his prime yet, a good defender, league average bat. Why not?

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:36 pm
  • Harold Reynolds on mlb.com saying the V-Mart will upset the Red Sox chemistry.
    Oh, really?

    I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2009, 3:37 pm
  • Reds acquire Rolen, for probably nothing as Rolen makes a lot.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:41 pm
  • Rolen has been moved to the Reds.
    JPR has said that he’s not going to move Rolen until he knows what he’s doing with Halladay. Maybe he now knows what he’s doing with Halladay?

    Brad July 31, 2009, 3:42 pm
  • can’t find the harold reynolds thing – is he saying VMart is a jerk?

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2009, 3:42 pm
  • Nightengale says the Sox are keeping Kotchman. “They love him off the bench.” That’s a pair of solid deals for the Sox.
    Eighteen minutes to do another one.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:43 pm
  • with Masterson gone and Wakey due back, could we see Smoltz back to the pen?
    please?

    ponch - sf July 31, 2009, 3:43 pm
  • VMart once killed a puppy. I think I read that somewhere. Probably can google it.

    Nick-YF July 31, 2009, 3:44 pm
  • Made you google.

    Nick-YF July 31, 2009, 3:44 pm
  • I’m sure Reynolds’ basis is that Proven Veterans Jason Varitek and Mike Lowell will be sitting a lot more often.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:45 pm
  • If Kotchman isn’t flipped, then does Tek become the backup with Kottaras going bye-bye?
    Then you have this depth:
    3B: Lowell (Youk)
    SS: Lowrie
    2B: Pedroia
    1B: Youk (Kotchman/Martinez)
    The defense is upgraded, particularly in a Kotchman-Ped-Lowrie-Youk scenario, with Martinez behind the plate. Lowell gets a rest. It’s an interesting logjam. Seems like Kotchman barely fits…

    SF July 31, 2009, 3:45 pm
  • Kotchman/Martinez has a Minky/O-Cab ’04 defensive upgrade all over trickle down vibe to me.

    SF July 31, 2009, 3:46 pm
  • SF, I think it’s:
    3B: Youkilis/Lowell
    SS: Lowrie (Green)
    2B: Pedroia
    1B: Martinez/Youkilis (Kotchman)
    C: Varitek (Martinez)

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:47 pm
  • rbf, HR said it during the trade deadline broadcast. Says someone’s gonna lose playing time and won’t be happy about it.

    gotta figure GKott headed for P’tucket.

    I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2009, 3:48 pm
  • Can’t we send Smoltz back to Atlanta with LaRouche?

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2009, 3:48 pm
  • And, really, 3B is Youkilis/Lowell (Lowrie).
    There’s a refreshing redundancy allll over this infield now, and the defense is massively upgraded. I’m liking these deals more and more.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:48 pm
  • Do Sox flip Kotchman to Toronto for Scutaro?

    I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2009, 3:49 pm
  • rbf: It’s LaRoche, not a crazed presidential fringe candidate!

    SF July 31, 2009, 3:50 pm
  • Do you think Adam LaRoche will be booed or cheered when he comes back to Fenway?
    (requisite question asked about former Sox player)

    Nick-YF July 31, 2009, 3:50 pm
  • Do Sox flip Kotchman to Toronto for Scutaro?
    I think the Sox are happy with Lowrie. He’s hit the ball well since his return.
    Mayo says he’s “trying to confirm” what he’s heard: That Austin Jackson is headed to Cincy, I guess as part of the Hairston deal?

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:50 pm
  • HA! That’s funny, Nick.

    Devine July 31, 2009, 3:52 pm
  • Um, Jackson is not sent for Jerry Hairston. 100% guarantee.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:53 pm
  • I was gonna say, he’s unavailable for Washburn, but not for Hairston?

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:53 pm
  • Mayo now says he thinks that info is not accurate. Ya think?

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:54 pm
  • You should be saying, isn’t Jackson a better hitter right now?
    I could see him going for Harang, although I wouldn’t like it.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:55 pm
  • Kotchman is all glove and hits too many groundballs. He’s a younger Doug Mientkiwicz. The power the scouts thought would blossom, never blossomed. He’s a bench player for the Sox and a bench player that gives you less power than LaRoche.

    John - YF July 31, 2009, 3:57 pm
  • Pretty busy trade season for the Sox:
    – Prospects for LaRoche
    – Lugo for Duncan
    – Kotsay for Anderson
    – Masterson and Hagadone for Martinez
    – LaRoche for Kotchman
    Three minutes.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:57 pm
  • gotta be either joba or hughes PLUS Ajax for someone of Hariston’s quality

    sam-YF July 31, 2009, 3:57 pm
  • John – LaRoche was going to be a free agent. Kotchman isn’t a FA for two years. He has a better glove and has better OBP skills.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 3:58 pm
  • He’s a bench player for the Sox and a bench player that gives you less power than LaRoche.
    True, but a much better glove, and the Sox’ defense has been unquestionably THE major weakness of the first half, in that it has been a glaring problem all season long, not just the past month or two.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 3:58 pm
  • 1 min to go….looks like you may have misread the Halladay situation Paul and SF.

    sam-YF July 31, 2009, 4:00 pm
  • Aaaaaand it’s 4 pm.
    How long do we give it to definitively say our teams are done for the deadline?
    The Manny-for-Bay deal first broke about five minutes after and wasn’t any more than rumor for a good 10 more minutes, IIRC.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:01 pm
  • rbf: It’s LaRoche, not a crazed presidential fringe candidate!
    that made em laugh…

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2009, 4:02 pm
  • I own Kotchman and have owned Kotchman for many years in our Scoresheet league, so the only people who know him better have the last name Kotchman. His glove is great, but I am telling you he hits groundballs like it was his job.
    Andrew, I would be ecstatic if Kotchman was the 1Bman in Boston for the next 2 seasons. As I say that he will be the next Bill Mueller.

    John - YF July 31, 2009, 4:02 pm
  • ….looks like you may have misread the Halladay situation Paul and SF.
    You might be right. I should learn to never underestimate the incompetence of JP Ricciardi.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:02 pm
  • NOO, THE ITALICS!
    Marlins acquire Nick Johnson at the last minute.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 4:02 pm
  • I didn’t say he’d be their first baseman, I said he’d be their backup, and he’s a darn good backup.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 4:03 pm
  • Why is everything italics? Was not me, mi amigos, I don’t know how to do that…LOL.

    John - YF July 31, 2009, 4:03 pm
  • Deep breath in, deep breath out…I didn’t say YOU said anything, all I said was I would be happy etc…

    John - YF July 31, 2009, 4:05 pm
  • Fixed the italics and deleted the comments that were trying to fix the italics. Ha.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:05 pm
  • Thanks Paul.

    rootbeerfloat July 31, 2009, 4:06 pm
  • Here’s something interesting from Joel Sherman:
    fact rolen got done when jays execs said no rolen trade unless halladay is dealt, makes me wonder if hallday actually got moved

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:06 pm
  • SoSH says Gammons says “Angels?” RE: Halladay.

    Devine July 31, 2009, 4:09 pm
  • Angels, huh? Better than the Yankees.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:09 pm
  • not so sure, Paul. I’d say the fact that they’re 4th in MLB in strikeouts in the No. 1 problem. Def. is No. 2.

    I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2009, 4:11 pm
  • Tim brown at Yahoo! says Halladay’s agent says the pitcher has received no requests to waive his NTC.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:11 pm
  • I kind of enjoy this tense, silent wait in the minutes immediately after the deadline. It’s like everyone’s waiting for a shockwave to hit.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:14 pm
  • I think we’re done. Now we see if Cashman was just blowing smoke when he said the trade deadline “doesn’t really mean anything”.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 4:17 pm
  • Sherman on the Martinez trade:
    Yet to hear any 1 overly impressed by #Indians haul for Martinez: like Hagadone arm, but health worries. some wonder if Price is mid rlvr

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:17 pm
  • I will say, w.r.t Halladay, that while the Sox obviously never offered anything like my “modest proposal” below (and might have been laughed out of the room if they had), they did (apparently) offer Buchholz plus one of Bowden/Masterson/Anderson plus others, and Ricciardi turned it down.
    I guarantee you he doesn’t get a better offer than that next offseason… assuming, of course, we’re actually done here.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:20 pm
  • looks like you may have misread the Halladay situation Paul and SF.
    No, I never said he’d be traded. I believe that he is at maximum value right now and, if the Jays were looking to trade him, this would be the best moment. I never asserted that he wouldn’t be on the Jays come tomorrow. If anything, I slagged off Ricciardi countless times because I think he’s not smart enough to recognize this.
    I never said a Halladay deal was a certainty. Paul was pretty emphatic about that.

    SF July 31, 2009, 4:21 pm
  • Heyman says Peavy has been dealt to the White Sox again, but not sure if Peavy has approved it this time. Wow.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:22 pm
  • “You might be right. I should learn to never underestimate the incompetence of JP Ricciardi.”
    Why because he didnt trade one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball to his division rivals for a decent/mediocre set of prospects?
    Like it or not we have to wait to pass judgement until after the off-season on this non-move. My main point was that he was clearly not under orders to “slash payroll at all costs” as you had posited earlier. I thought that was an optimistic view of things at the time…

    sam-YF July 31, 2009, 4:22 pm
  • osters onb BTF are saying that Rosenthal is tweeting that the Pads have traded AGon and Bell to the Dodgers for Loney and prospects. Crazy

    Nick-YF July 31, 2009, 4:23 pm
  • Well, I was pretty emphatic that Halladay SHOULD be traded, and assumed (incorrectly, as it looks) that Ricciardi was not a moron intent on receiving less-than-maximum value for his best player. As I said before, I obviously underestimated yet again the depths of his incompetence.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:24 pm
  • Wow on the AGon trade. The Dodgers look fearsome, if that’s true.
    Sherman says Halladay was not traded.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:25 pm
  • Why because he didnt trade one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball to his division rivals for a decent/mediocre set of prospects?
    Read above where I delineated my belief in general from my arguments about the specific trade I was advocating.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:26 pm
  • a bigger deal, for Toronto ace Roy Halladay, fell apart when Boston refused to part with both Buchholz and reliever Daniel Bard.
    Buried lede on ESPN? This is the last line of the Martinez/Masterson trade report.

    SF July 31, 2009, 4:30 pm
  • Lots of teams improved today, the Yankees didn’t.

    AndrewYF July 31, 2009, 4:32 pm
  • For the record, Rosenthal doesn’t have a Twitter account that i can find, and I don’t see ANY RTs that would signify that. Closest is a tweet from 3:56 saying Rosenthal is saying AGon MAY be headed to LA.
    Rosenthal is saying that a last-ditch effort by the Angels fell apart, and that Halladay remains in Toronto.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:33 pm
  • Peavy to the White Sox.

    I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2009, 4:34 pm
  • Bummer about Halladay. The Sox were right to stick to their guns. Ricciardi had a chance to land Buchholz and Lars Anderson (or Michael Bowden, if he preferred), among others, and threw it away.
    We’ll see come the offseason, but I suspect he’s going to be looking a lot like the Twinkies did when they turned down Lester-plus and Ellsbury-plus for Santana.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:37 pm
  • Of course Martinez is better than average, but there is reason for concern if you’re a SoxFan. He’s coming off a really bad, injury plagued 2008 season and is mired in a lengthy slump this year. Here’s Keith Law’s take:
    “Martinez has been horrible for more than two months after a roaring start; he was hitting .400 entering May 22, but since then is hitting .193/.284/.340 over 243 plate appearances, including 80 against weaker NL pitching. He’s a poor defender behind the plate and Cleveland has often toyed with the idea of moving him to third or first base. For Boston, he could replace Jason Varitek, or could fill in at multiple positions, playing every day but splitting time across catcher, first base and DH, especially the latter when a left-hander is on the mound. He’s a legitimate switch-hitter and controls the strike zone, so at worst the Red Sox just got a catcher who can get on base and who’s under contract for a reasonable $7.5 million next year.”
    Of course that worry is tempered by the fact that the Sox didn’t give up much – Masterson’s a nice, versatile guy to have around out of the pen or to make a spot start. Hagadone is potentially high upside but is coming off TJ surgery last year and struggling with his command. Never heard of the other dude.
    The Sox are a better team now than an hour ago, and certainly more flexible at C/DH/CI. How much better depends on whether V-Mart is in an extended slump that he will snap out of or if he’s a banged up/fatigued from his health issues last year.

    Mark-YF July 31, 2009, 4:43 pm
  • Martinez is in a slump, sure, but he’s getting on base at about 100 points better than his batting average and is ISO in the slump is roughly .150, or only slightly below his career average.
    His BABIP in June was .227, and in July it’s a terrible .186. Looks like a lot of bad luck to me, but not reason for concern going forward.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:51 pm
  • “Ricciardi had a chance to land Buchholz and Lars Anderson (or Michael Bowden, if he preferred), among others, and threw it away.”
    How could you possibly know this is true?

    sam-YF July 31, 2009, 4:55 pm
  • Well, it’s what was reported, at any rate. Gordon Edes hated Manny Ramirez irrationally during his time as a Globe writer, but he’s a good reporter when it comes to potential deals. I trust what he reports, the leak pissed off the Sox, and it hasn’t been contradicted by anyone or anything that’s happened since.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 4:59 pm
  • I wonder if the Sox had traded Bay, would Law be discussing how the Sox
    did well by dumping a horribly slumping void in their lineup? Or would he be talking about Bay’s typical performances, the solidity of him historically for his new team?

    SF July 31, 2009, 5:25 pm
  • Paul – As mentioned in KLAW’s blurb, his OBP skills are fine. And he’s had some bad luck in the slump, but it’s far from solely attributable to that. He is also striking out more and hitting a lot fewer line drives.
    Before May 23 (175 AB)
    15 K (1 every 11.67 AB)
    40 LDs (1 every 4.4 AB)
    Since May 23 (212 AB)
    39 K (1 every 5.4 AB)
    25 LDs (1 every 8.5 AB)
    His ISO is largely the same through the slump because he still managed to hit 7 HRs in June while slumping.

    Mark-YF July 31, 2009, 5:28 pm
  • (175 AB) … (212 AB)
    I would consider the size of those numbers before I extrapolated conclusions from the size of any others.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 5:45 pm
  • Hopefully in a year SFs will be laughing at the non-Buchholz-for-Halladay trade just like we’re presumably laughing at the non-Lester-for-Santana trade.

    Devine July 31, 2009, 5:51 pm
  • Hopefully in a year SFs will be laughing at the non-Buchholz-for-Halladay trade just like we’re presumably laughing at the non-Lester-for-Santana trade.
    I predict this: We won’t regret not trading for Halladay. Certainly not at the price Ricciardi was asking.

    Paul SF July 31, 2009, 5:57 pm
  • 212 ABs is more than a third of a season and not exactly SSS, Paul. Not when we’re discussing a player’s impact on this year’s pennant race. When a guy is in that bad of a slump for 2+ months, yeah that’s cause for some concern. Especially for a catcher in a year following a season lost to injuries.

    Mark - YF July 31, 2009, 6:03 pm
  • Oh and K-Law isn’t exactly a Sox basher. He’s consistently high on their farm system, player development and FO.

    Mark - YF July 31, 2009, 6:11 pm
  • Anyone remember Martinez crying (I for one don’t hold it against him in any way) in the dugout when the Indians lost the ALCS in ’07? Hopefully the Sox can give him some good memories to associate with Fenway in October…

    Devine July 31, 2009, 6:22 pm
  • Pretty decent trade. Martinez is a clear upgrade, one the Sox have needed all season. Though I agree, his bat is not as good as advertised. Masterson seems like a guy who could surprise as a starter. His peripherals are actually better this year. I wonder how much he was hurt by the Sox defense. They lose a ton of value from Masterson if the Indians show he can be a starter. If not, the Sox did a very good job getting an upgrade without giving up much. I wish I could say the same of the Yankees, that’s for sure.
    Kotchman, not so much. I have never understood the interest in carrying a glove-only 1B. And for the Sox, when you have Youkilis, there seems to be even less reason to waste the roster spot in that way. Seems like they were scrambling to get something, anything, for LaRoche. That’s pretty funny.
    Not surprised at all that they didn’t move Halladay. I think the Jays could compete next year if they get back most of their young pitchers. If not, they’ll move Halladay for one excellent prospect next July – exactly the rumor on what they would have gotten this year. The difference is in the second tier of the deal. For a marginal difference I don’t see how Ricciardi is “incompetent”. At worst he knows he’ll get two first rounders. Seems like teams were trying to squeeze him in prospects based on the money remaining. If so, I would have done the same thing.

    Rob August 1, 2009, 9:10 am

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