60 comments… add one
The thing that worries me is the 4 BB’s that Lester had. His lack of command is what troubled him during the last two years, and it is what needs to improve if his overall stats are to improve as well.
What were Keith Foulke’s stats in the 2004 preseason?
15 ER in 9 IP over eight games. 15.00 ERA, third-worst of the spring, in front of guys named Shiell and Yarnall.
Should thrown Hansen on there too (though since mid ’06, I don’t think I’ve ever expected great things).
Wait, aren’t you the same guy that called the Kei Igawa “experiment” over?
Now “Spring stats mean nothing”?
Which is it?
That’s why it’s called the “Keith Foulke Method”. Foulke had a 15.00 ERA during spring training, and then dominated in 2004.
Also, the Red Sox finished in last place in the Grapefruit League for the last three years. Spring Training is a good way to meet some of the prospects and to get everyone warmed up, but aside from that it means nothing.
It’s the beginning of ST. If he’s still walking people like that the week before the season starts, I’ll be worried. Otherwise, meh.
Even more than being spring stats, doesn’t it go without saying that we aren’t going to learn anything definitive from 2 and 1 innings pitched, respectively? I mean, if those ERAs looked the same by March 20, I’d be concerned, even though they’ll still be ‘spring stats’.
Red Sox didn’t finish last in 2007. But yes, the stats mean absolutely nothing.
Wow, my mistake Andrew. Well to back up my point that Spring Training doesn’t matter:
2007 Grapefruit League Standings:
-St. Louis 16-10
6 of the top 7 failed to play the playoffs.
Pitching, more than anything, doesn’t mean anything in ST. It’s my understand that pitchers in ST are told, pretty much, exactly what to throw, how many times to throw it and in a lot of cases, when to throw it, not just in ST bullpen sessions, but also in ST games.
With all due respect Ath, you can’t just discount everything as “Spring Training is a good way to meet some of the prospects and to get everyone warmed up, but aside from that it means nothing.” For the young pitchers like Lester, Buchholz, Hughes, IPK, Joba, these players it does mean something. If there are issues now, they could linger into the season. Established guys like AP, Wake, etc…have been through ST and yes it is a warm up and a way to get them on track. They have established routines and simply know when to put it in gear. I worry when the young pitchers struggle because they have a lot more to focus on then the vets. They have a lot more to work on then the vets. Ideally I would like to see the young guys get in and be sharp right away. On the Yankees side it means getting to know their new pitching coach also. That’s a relationship that needs to form and be successful in order for some of these guys to be successful. (See Brian Bruney’s comments) Not saying what is happening now will happen in the season, but ST is pretty important for the young pitchers at least.
As for Igawa, I can’t wait to see him throw. I don’t care if spring training is 8 months long until he learns how to locate his pitches he is never going to succeed. He has stuff, but that doesn’t make him a pitcher. He is a weird guy, they let him go back to all his rituals and so on, but that’s all fine and good, he still needs to learn where he can and can’t pitch in the big leagues.
Sorry John, I meant more along the lines of gauging a team’s likelihood for success. Spring Training, for me, is useful for seeing if certain players have made specific adjustments from last year (such as Lester’s BB problem), but aside from that the high ERA’s of Buchholz and Lester do not worry me and are no way indicative of how they will do in the regular season.
“Pitching, more than anything, doesn’t mean anything in ST.”
No way. I would agree that results don’t matter tremendously, but mechanics, throwing strikes, locating pitches are all things that seriously matter. Even if their outings are scripted they still need to hit spots and make good pitches. I would say that pitchers more then any other position get the most out of ST. They are there sooner then the hitters for a reason. Getting their arms in game shape, getting back into routines, so on all takes time. Hitters start behind the pitchers when camp opens and slowly but surely move past them in a matter of days.
As for the team’s record, I would agree that has little to do with how a team is going to play in the regular season.
Sorry, I worded that wrong. I should have said.
“Pitching results, more than anything, doesn’t mean anything in ST.”
I agree with you John that pitchers get the most out of ST, that’s not what I was trying to say.
I firmly believe that the results are meaningless though.
Shouldn’t this post be entitled The Mike Mussina Method? His line today:
2.0 IP 6H 5R 4ER 0K 0BB 1HR 18.00 ERA
I hope he continues to stink up the joint and retires rather than be banished to the pen. The Yanks have too many good young arms to be clogging things up with his rubbish and attitude.
Man, let’s leave off bagging on Moose. He’s a sensitive guy. If we make it acceptable then before you know it one of the clues in the Sunday Times x-word will be 7 letters, with the clue “16-0-8-28-2007″ and then where will we be? He won’t even be good for relief anymore.
Honestly, even if he stinks it up it’ll be worth having him around. We need a veteran pitcher who doesn’t have Henry Waxman growing out of his stomach like that dude from Total Recall.
To hell with vets, I say, after Pettitte’s head explodes because of the pressures of being a rat, I say go with a staff that’s completely 28 and under!
Average age: 24 years young!
Eh, with Moose especially spring stats mean very little. I don’t know if I read it here or someone else, but in 2006 Mussina’s spring ERA was like 7. As long as he starts off healthy like he did in 2006 (and didn’t in 2007), there’s reason to be optimistic.
Except he gets by on fooling hitters and can no longer fool them with an 84 mph fastball. I think it’s going to end badly. The last time he had an above average full year? 2003.
I’m in the “spring stats meaen little” camp.
I’m not convinced its statistics that are examined so much as it is location and command.
If a pitcher gets an ump with a bad strike zone, or an ump goes to sleep on a couple of pitches, that could lay the foundation for a bad outing.
Or a non-regular defender fails to make a play that the regular would have made. Such things could lead to an undoing.
Also, one could surmise (or rationalize, I suppose) that a pitcher who belives he has something to prove (such as Buccholz, Lester, Hansen, Igawa and even Mussina, given his struggles last year and the youngsters pushing him now) might start out overthowing.
Buccholz second inning in his crappy outing was much better.
And all of the names mentioned have had just one outing, except Buccholz, who was much better in his first outing, I believe.
So our sample is very, very small.
(I’m getting very good at riding the fence.)
The guys over at soxprospects.com were saying that Buchholz was topping out at 91 the other day.
That sounds familiar. That sounds like Hughes last year.
I implore you all not to count on rookie pitchers for much. It ain’t* gonna happen.
I don’t think that’s unexpected, Mike. Buchholz sits in the low 90s, and tops at 97. I doubt he’s being asked to air it out at 95-97 in his first spring training start.
“That sounds familiar. That sounds like Hughes last year.”
Hughes was injured. He has stated numerous times that his velocity was down due to his leg issues.
Damn, those scars do run deep:
Red Sox mob beats up Yankees fan in Cambridge
I’ve been getting shit wearing my camo NY cap (I’m a militant fan) around Beantown and in Cambridge, but I have a simple retort: “Times are good for you guys. Enjoy them”.
Still, it’s always important to know how to pull an eye from a socket. But four bodies are tough to fight. Put a wall to your back, and fire with arms are legs – viciously. I really love the fact now that I wear the equivalent of gang colors and signs just because of the baseball team I root for.
Cut the crap, A. There are plenty of Sox fans who have left Yankee Stadium or the Bronx with physical injuries not of their own making. This whole “scars run deep” thing is like a broken record from you. Enough, ok?
And just for reference, we have this
As a moderator I am asking that we not let this go any further on this site. Nobody here should engage A-YF on this.
I’m sorry. I had never heard of the converse. I can’t read your link, but I understand what you’re referencing. I’ve seen drinks dropped on people at Yankee Stadium back in the 80′s. It’s awful all around. That’s the end of that, on my end.
Now, I can. I hope every single one of those scumbags rots in jail while shitting baseballs. My apologies again.
Out of respect to SF, fine.
Sorry, SF, I can’t let this one slide. This guy wasn’t at a game. He was just having a drink in Central Square with his girlfriend. Yonkers is not Mass Ave, not by a long shot. I go to that bar at least twice a month, and it was really useful for me to hear about this incident so I don’t go out with my cap on.
I don’t think it says anything about SFs in general, but it’s a pretty big deal.
If you don’t wear your cap, the terrorists win!
I don’t think it says anything about SFs in general, but it’s a pretty big deal.
It’s a terrible thing, as is the story about the Yankee fans maiming a Sox fan in Yonkers as I linked to above. But they have no relevance to this site, and broad generalizations about what the motives are behind such sociopathic activity adds nothing to this blog.
Grrr….. Trying hard here SF, trying real hard.
Has anyone here played “The Show” yet? I know it came out today, but just trying to get a sense of if it’s better then last seasons?
The River Ave crew has a review up today.
trisk- haven’t played “the show” yet but, MLB 2k8 on the Wii is giving me the best workout i’ve had in years. it’s like playing 9 innings at every position on the field. i bought it this morning and called out sick to work after playing it for 5 min. i’m dedicating today to my new toy.
I don’t wear my cap in Roxbury or put Yankee stickers on my car. Once I turn 21, I won’t be wearing my Yankees hat around in bars (except maybe when they’re playing Boston…but seeing stories like these make me think twice about going outdoors with any Yankee gear on). It’d be like a woman walking alone with a short skirt in a seedy neighborhood at night. Not saying they deserve it or are asking for it at all, but christ be a little smarter than that.
However, for the idiots who wear Boston hats in the bleachers when the Yankees aren’t even playing Boston, I don’t feel sorry for them one bit when they get verbally abused, they really are asking for that.
I deserve an award for biting my tongue today.
In the “This deserves a post of its own” category:
A Boston Red Sox scout was arrested, accused of masturbating at the window of his hotel room in front of two women and two underage girls at the swimming pool, records show.
Jesse Levis, 39, faces two felony charges for committing lewd and lascivious acts in front of children under the age of 16.
The hotel manager, Ken Glass, told police a similar incident had happened last year, when Levis was checked into a room on the fourth floor overlooking the pool, the report said.
What the hell is going on, Lockland? ;)
“The River Ave crew has a review up today.”
I never read River Ave, are they a worthwhile read?
“…that’s a pretty girl down there Richard, I wonder if she goes out with one of the Yankees???”
I guess Jesse learned all he knows from the Yankees’ newest analyst, David Cone.
I really like the analysis by the River Ave Blues guys. They’ll tell you what they think regardless of whether it popular. For instance, their latest kick is saying Melky is pretty much a 4th OF on a contending team. I think it’s to early to say that, but I admire their willingness to say what they think. They’re also big on the Big Three (tee-shirts for sale). I can’t argue with them there.
Ouch on the Cone comment. Not sure, he was ever with an underage “model”, but the bullpen thing is still pretty funny. He was really nuts when he was on the Mets. Amazing contrast from his boyish good looks ;)
A- wiki yankee great Luis Polonia. i dare you.
Oh, I know all about Luis. Without looking, was it Milwaukee?
yup. and then the yanks resigned him the very next year. my guess is that jesse won’t be resigning any contracts.
Yeah, he’s a dirty, dirty little man.
This thread was just ugly today. Like god took a crap on the internet.
Well done everyone for not allowing it to grow.
Um, just maybe, we could talk about some spring training games instead, Guys? Dice-K apparently looked sharp. And I read Kei Igawa’s name in the same sentence as “perfect game”. And it wasn’t in The Onion.
Well, officially (USF doesn’t count), Kei has a better spring ERA and WHIP than Dice-K, who I think let in a run today. Someone should contact Pete Abraham.
Andrew – Thaaaaaaaaaaat’s what I like to see. Trash talking about spring training stats. This thread has taken a turn upwards.
USF doesn’t count
Why not? I say if you give up runs to a college team, they should count double.
I’m joking. Kinda.
Come on, I can’t possibly rush to Igawa’s defense. But Dice-K didn’t exactly overpower the Pirates. Whereas the Yanks will be fine if Igawa spends purgatory in Scranton, the Sox absolutely need Matsuzaka to take a step forward this year.
Meanwhile, I’m still waiting for Ellsbury’s first hit this Spring :)
I’m sure Igawa will rectify his statistical mishap soon enough.
Meanwhile, the Yankee spring training game is on YES and ESPN today. I think it’s Joba and Kennedy pitching, or maybe just one of them, but they should go for a little longer than previous starters, having each pitched two innings at USF.
Delete the whole thread. TIA
The site just needs some new posts to push this down and away. I would even accept a post regarding Papelbon running his mouth about his contract, even though Yankee fans will enjoy it too much.
He’s just being a good union soldier. Can’t have the best reliever in baseball accepting a contract less than the NL’s 2006 MVP. Not that he’ll get it, or anyone in Boston’s FO cares.
If I were Theo I re-sign him for 10% less just for opening his mouth. Tell him that’s what he gets for demanding a ridiculously high arbitration figure in 2009.
Leave a Comment
Next post: Lazy Spring Days
Previous post: Hank Steinbrenner: Member of ‘Red Sox Nation’
Spalding’s World Tour