The Last Laugh?

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Well, at least one person long-associated with the Yankees’ run of playoff appearances is heading back to the post-season.

Congrats to the Dodgers’ manager, someone for whom we always had a lot of fondness, pinstripes and all.

33 comments… add one

  • You are really showing your true colors today SF…and to think I ever had respect for you as not a typical SF.

    krueg September 28, 2008, 9:49 pm
  • whoa, where’d that come from, krueg?
    Besides, you don’t think it’s a trip for us SFs to watch Torre manage Manny, Nomar, and D-Lowe?? Too bad they’ll continue Joe’s recent trend of losing in the first round.

    stuck working September 28, 2008, 10:32 pm
  • Please. This is the second post from SF today looking for a rise from YFs. This post was there to simply rub salt in our wounds. I hope this comes back around to you in about 6 days….

    Sam-YF September 28, 2008, 10:36 pm
  • jeez guys, chill. The first post today wasn’t salt in anyone’s wounds, the game had not even been played yet! Also, I fully acknowledged my own immaturity in that same post, that ought to make my seriousness clear. This post is meant for Hank Steinbrenner and Randy Levine, not Yankees fans. There are a lot of Yankee fans who probably share my sentiment, I think it is highly unfair to make this out as an attack on the fan base. It isn’t.

    SF September 28, 2008, 11:05 pm
  • Hey SW…maturity and class are taking the high road. When you are on top, there isn’t much reason to rub it in. At least that’s how I feel about it. Of course many people don’t subscribe to this and it is apparent now that SF is one of them.
    Just remember…no one stays on top forever. What goes around comes around.

    krueg September 28, 2008, 11:08 pm
  • Do you really take us for fools SF? Really? Again, you had me fooled for a long time but it is obvious the kind of person you really are…A typical Sox fan and an embarrassment to the very kind of forum you supposedly support.

    krueg September 28, 2008, 11:11 pm
  • I am just trying to figure out which thread is more infuriating/unnecessary this one or the Moose thread? Wow SF…

    John - YF September 28, 2008, 11:12 pm
  • krueg:
    Repeat: not rubbing it in YF faces. Yankees front office? Different story.
    Sorry you read it that way. I have nothing but disdain for the way the Yankees treated Torre, this is all on the record from me months ago, and this puts a nice cap on it. Again, NOT meant as a dig at YFs.

    SF September 28, 2008, 11:14 pm
  • Whatever you say SF, it sure feels like one.

    Sam-YF September 28, 2008, 11:25 pm
  • Question for Joe T.: What’ll you tell Manny the first time someone goes face high with a 97mph fastball?
    Just wondering.
    YFs: Lighten up.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 28, 2008, 11:26 pm
  • I don’t think YFs need to “lighten up”, Bill. I just wish they’d understand that this post is directed at the FO. I mean, how could it possibly be aimed at YFs, who had nothing to do, at all, with the unceremonious way he left? If anything, YFs are immune in this one.
    Sam, this has everything to do with the highers up, and nothing to do with the fans or salt in anyone’s wounds. I can’t say it more forcefully.

    SF September 28, 2008, 11:36 pm
  • Fair enough SF. I give you the benefit of the doubt.
    Maybe this is karmic retribution if you arent being forthright ;)
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/09/28/beckett.injury.ap/index.html?eref=si_topstories

    Sam-YF September 29, 2008, 12:11 am
  • i thought i had sf and some other sf’s straightened out the other day with my comment on “the franchise” thread…at least sf is honest and admits he’s petty, and digs for reasons to bash hank…he may not have seen my comments, or conveniently ignored them so he could take another obligatory “i told you so” torre-shot, but those of you calling him a “typical” sox fan are right on…his snarkiness is trumped only by his sensitivity for his precious sox…yank fans on this site taking similar cheap shots are met with all forms of indignance, but when he’s called on his attempts to flame, sf usually responds by saying “lighten up” [this time it was his surrogate, bill with that advice], or jeez, i was just kidding [insert smiley], or “my insults are not for yf’s, but for the front office”…uh huh
    here’s my comment from “the franchise” thread…still relevant, still right on:
    “i think some of you may have missed the point…your reflexes tell you to bash hank at the sound of his voice…you can’t help it…all he’s saying is that he has been getting, and will continue to get, a rash of sh– about how torre guided his dodgers to the playoffs, while his former team will stay at home for the post-season…we’ll never know how the yanks would have fared under torre this season, but there’s no reason to believe he would have been able to manage around 2, not 1, formidable opponents in their own division any more effectively than the other joe, or if he could have managed around the injuries, particularly to wang…would he have had better luck with kennedy and hughes than girardi did?…was cano’s [and even jeter's] off year due to joe’s absence?…could he have kept matsui off the disabled list?…again, we’ll never know, but a reasonable person would doubt it…on the other hand, we can speculate about how much torre’s current team benefited from being in what is probably the weakest division in baseball, in the weaker league, and the mid-season acquisition of a manny ramirez, who appears to be reborn in LA [for now anyway], but that’s all worth a few games you would think…all hank is doing is trying to fire back at the critics who can’t get over the departure of torre, and couldn’t wait to play the “i told you so” game with him, all the while ignoring the different circumstances the dodgers and yankees found themselves in this year…i do however, agree that once again his execution and choice of words become the focus, and that tends to diminishes his point for many…”

    dc September 29, 2008, 12:40 am
  • dc- your credibility as a voice of reason and moderation is somewhat undercut by your comment earlier that SFs are “the most despicable losers of all time.”
    Uh…yeah, I’m sure SF will totally take your complaint seriously now.

    stuck working September 29, 2008, 1:57 am
  • or “my insults are not for yf’s, but for the front office”…uh huh
    Yep, you nailed me. I should have remembered not to go to the “my insults are not for yfs but for the front office” well again, I think that makes it like 47 times this year – it’s one of my favorite backtracking excuses. Seriously, dc? This is what you come up with?
    In retrospect I do understand why YFs might have seen this is as a dig in general, but I am still a little lost as how it can be seen as a dig against YFs specifically. It wasn’t. Torre had nothing against YFs, even in the exodus, and rightfully. YFs, even in the exodus, mostly treated Torre with reverence and respect, rightfully. So, to reference the title of the post and ask a question, at whom would Torre laughing? Certainly not the Yankee fanbase. No way. After last week’s snub during the video tribute, I would have thought that this post would have been even more clearly about Torre and the Yankees front office. I guess not, and I am sorry that offense was taken.

    SF September 29, 2008, 6:55 am
  • no apology necessary sf…i understood your point exactly as you meant it [torre gets some measure of revenge on the team that he feels disrespected him...you're probably right that he feels that way], but i still don’t like it, or your intent to rub our noses in it, again…you say that your criticism was for the front office and not we yf’s…i say so what?…you had to know it wouldn’t be well received by yf’s, regardless of your intended target…[and, to answer your question, your most common backtrack may be this one, but i think your favorite is that you were "just kidding"]…torre wasn’t the only snub at the stadium closing cermony, and he’s certainly not the only wildly successful manager the yanks ever fired [stengel]…the notion that the yankees should have some remorse over torre’s departure because his current team [with a worse record by the way than his former team] made the playoffs while his former team won’t partake in the post season, takes the apples and oranges debate to a new level…i’m just growing tired of hearing the stuff about torre’s leaving, and apparently so was hank…honestly, we can’t know what would have happened…if torre could have healed wang for example, or magically made cano remember how to hit, then you’d have something…it’s like someone harping on what might have been if manny stayed in boston [and got the money and butt-kissing he felt entitled to] …maybe the sox would have finished in first like his current team…with a first place finish and perhaps the best record, they would have enjoyed home field advantage, and a weaker opening round opponent…i know you rationalize that bay has helped the sox forget about manny [and you may be right in the short run], so using that logic, why wouldn’t you think that the yanks could be satisfied with girardi’s performance, particularly under the circumstances, rather than kicking themselves for letting the other joe go?…i’ll answer that question for you: when the sox reached the point with pedro, manny, and damon, where they decided that those guys were at the end of their run with regard to expected performance and salary demands [which the players viewed as a sign of disrespect], they were praised for making sound personnel decisions, even before anyone saw how they turned out…when the yanks decided that bernie, and later torre, had reached the end of their run, and weren’t worth the money anymore, the team was vilified for showing disrespect to 2 beloved and successful contributors…the fact that all 5 of those guys felt the same way is the common demoninator here, but for the fans, i guess it all depends on who’s doing the disrespecting…
    in response to sw, i’ll take back my “despicable” rant on the other thread…it was excessive…to be fair though, some of you have turned into what you used to hate most about yankee fans, but not all of you…i don’t necessarily consider myself a voice of “reason” or “moderation”, but if so, hopefully my reputation isn’t too tarnished…i’m probably not alone in wanting to take back something after i’ve hit ‘post’, but that’s the way it goes i guess…

    dc September 29, 2008, 10:26 am
  • correction, the yanks didn’t actually “fire” torre, i guess it just seemed that way

    dc September 29, 2008, 10:28 am
  • dc- i guess it’s just a little weird for you to think that SF’s post is an oblique but serious and offensive insult when you spout off with really clearly offensive stuff. Practice what you preach, brother, that’s all I ask.
    Well, that, and maybe cool it with the ellipses…

    stuck working September 29, 2008, 12:03 pm
  • Intent aside…it was a dick move to post both of them yesterday. Obviously us YF’s are hurting in light of missing the postseason. Semantics or not it was an unnecessary slap to the face of YF’s. Especially those of us that enjoy reading and occasionally posting to a site that is supposed to represent the best of two of the WORST fanbases in professional sports. The amount of crap that has been spewed in the general direction of YF’s this entire season was really unnecessary. A YF was blasted and eventually booted but was he any worse than some of the SF’s that posted and continue to post to this site?
    I’m sorry SF but you aren’t going to talk your way out of this one. Your insensitivity just shows you are either clueless or a typical SF.
    And for those of you telling us to calm down…I can’t even imagine the backlash if one of the YF Mods posted anything close to this if the shoe were on the other foot.

    krueg September 29, 2008, 12:09 pm
  • Your insensitivity just shows you are either clueless or a typical SF.
    Sorry you feel that way, krueg. I figured that an entire season of exchanges would be worth more than one misinterpreted post.
    The amount of crap that has been spewed in the general direction of YF’s this entire season was really unnecessary.
    At this site or in the general world outside this site? This is WAY off base, and I imagine that the YFs who author this site might agree.
    As for the two posts yesterday, the Mussina one was prefaced as being petty. Full disclosure. I am, in many ways, no different as a sports fan than any other fan, that much I cop to: I have a few sincerely odd and irrational dislikes, one happens to be Mike Mussina. I have mentioned this here on several occasions. I don’t pretend that my dislike of him is normal or acceptable, but it’s how I feel. I don’t have much defense for my sentiment: it’s visceral and not that mature. Hence my post as I wrote it. I don’t see how that comes off as a slap at YFs. If anything, I posted it knowing that it makes me look kind of silly. But we’re honest at this site, if anything.
    As for this post, I am extremely annoyed that you are, after all these months, unable to take me at my word. I get that people might have read this as kicking YFs when they are down, but I also think my honest and reasonable explanations (at the least my explanation is utterly reasonable) and my history of posts at this site ought to be clear enough evidence that it wasn’t what you think it was.

    SF September 29, 2008, 12:30 pm
  • “Practice what you preach, brother, that’s all I ask.”
    well sw, the point you’re forgetting is that i didn’t take the first shot…i merely responded…the timing was bad to poke at yankee fans, especially about something already controversial, but i’ll add another layer of skin…i guess i should show more self-restraint, rise above the fray, and turn the other cheek, but the site is supposed to be about making comments, stating opinions, and then expecting to be challenged…apparently it’s about busting balls too, which i’ll remember, and i promise to ignore the resulting backlash/whining…i went to the extreme with my response, painting all sox fans with the same brush…but then i expressed regrets for being too harsh…what else would you like me to do?…

    dc September 29, 2008, 1:47 pm
  • the timing was bad to poke at yankee fans
    For the last time, and this is the biggest misreading that is making me very annoyed: it wasn’t a poke at YFs. How is pointing out Torre’s potential satisfaction at making the playoffs while the Yankees miss it about YFs? What does Torre’s “last laugh” have to do with Yankee FANS, who almost universally (even those who didn’t mind how the situation ended) treated him with the utmost respect?
    As for the timing, when would it have been appropriate to post something, dc? Ever? If not on the final day of the season as we move to the playoffs, then when? If not after Torre was snubbed in the Stadium closing video and on the heels of his sucess this season, then when? November? Next Spring? I suppose if a YF had posted this it would have been met with spirited discussion, not hyperbolic derision directed at the author. This site has been built on an understanding that we, as authors, are able to write with some authority about our rivals, and that not every cross-subject post is an attack on the fans of the other club. To repeat, this post had absolutely NOTHING to do with Yankee fans, and everything to do with Torre and the Yankee front office.
    I can say this over and over and over, but clearly it makes no difference.

    SF September 29, 2008, 1:59 pm
  • “Sorry you feel that way, krueg. I figured that an entire season of exchanges would be worth more than one misinterpreted post.”
    Um…two posts. On the day the Yankees season ended.
    “At this site or in the general world outside this site? This is WAY off base, and I imagine that the YFs who author this site might agree.”
    You truly are clueless then…
    “As for the two posts yesterday, the Mussina one was prefaced as being petty. ”
    Oh, Ok then…i can post whatever I want as long as I preface it with the fact that I am actually being inflammatory? Good to know.
    “I don’t see how that comes off as a slap at YFs.”
    Um…OK. You rip on one of the few bright spots in an otherwise dark season and expect no response? Oh yeah, you prefaced it by saying you were being an ass.
    “As for this post, I am extremely annoyed that you are, after all these months, unable to take me at my word. I get that people might have read this as kicking YFs when they are down, but I also think my honest and reasonable explanations (at the least my explanation is utterly reasonable) and my history of posts at this site ought to be clear enough evidence that it wasn’t what you think it was.”
    You have done this before SF…backpedaling and semantics aside, you got out there what you wanted to say, congrats. I guess I’m the jerk for taking offense to your sacred posts and comments. Of course you are completely objective when it comes to the Yankees…you have lots of friends that are YF’s, right?
    Enjoy the playoffs.

    krueg September 29, 2008, 2:06 pm
  • “I don’t see how that comes off as a slap at YFs.”
    Um…OK. You rip on one of the few bright spots in an otherwise dark season and expect no response? Oh yeah, you prefaced it by saying you were being an ass.

    All other points aside, about which I think you are overreacting to say the least, this cut and paste job of yours is wrongheaded: I was speaking of the Torre post, which for the eleven millionth time had nothing to do with Yankee fans, as explained above. You want to conflate that and the Mussina post. That’s wrong.
    Meanwhile, I still haven’t heard a good explanation of why the Torre post would be so strongly construed as an attack on Yankee fans, which is what has been charged. I would like to read a well-reasoned explanation why it is seen as such.

    SF September 29, 2008, 2:41 pm
  • You basically posted the fact that Torre made the playoffs and the Yankees didn’t, i.e. rubbing it in. That is not in keeping with the supposed tone of this site.
    “Well, at least one person long-associated with the Yankees’ run of playoff appearances is heading back to the post-season.”
    This statement is basically saying to us YF’s (that took offense), haha Torre made the playoffs and the Yankees didn’t. No where in your post does it say, HAHA Yankees front office, you screwed up. You did not mention the front office in your post, as you tried to clarify in your backtracking explanations, did you?
    So if the Sox lose in the first round, we can post a picture of Manny and say, “At least one player from the Sox championship teams is still playing!” and you don’t think that would ellicit some pissed off responses? Are you serious?

    krueg September 29, 2008, 4:15 pm
  • We’re really just beating a dead horse at this point…this is your site and you can say whatever you want. Forget it. Go Sox.

    krueg September 29, 2008, 4:17 pm
  • So if the Sox lose in the first round, we can post a picture of Manny and say, “At least one player from the Sox championship teams is still playing!”
    Well, you’d have to add in Derek Lowe too, you realize, to have it right. Frankly, if Manny goes deep into the playoffs and the Sox exit early, I would think that this would absolutely positively be legitimate material for this site, in particular if Manny has a big thing to do with the Dodgers’ success. How would that not be at least somewhat relevant to this site?

    SF September 29, 2008, 4:43 pm
  • SF – It totally would be and if a YF mod posted it the day the sox got eliminated the SFs around here would not be too pleased. Hopefully, we will be able to put this to a test next week…
    I was initially annoyed by the post because it was posted the day our season was officially over. It felt like rubbing salt in the wounds. I trust you that wasn’t your intention but it still felt that way.

    Sam-YF September 29, 2008, 7:50 pm
  • sf, you and i have had misunderstandings before, and i appreciate the fact that you are annoyed at thinking we don’t get it this time…except, we said we got it, yet you refuse to understand our point of you…yes, you intended to poke fun at yankee management, which i acknowledged earlier, even though your initial post did not mention the target of your joke, so we reacted accordingly…whether you want to admit it or not, your joke has a trickle down effect on us fans, who are quickly tiring of the “poor joe” bs, and other pointless attacks on yankee players and management…krueg, sam, and i have pointed that out quite effectively i think, but you don’t seem to want to see our point of view, instead taking the approach of defending your posts, and refusing to acknowledge that there may be a kernel of controversy in them…you may be annoyed with us, but i’m offended by your insistence on dismissing our point of view…instead, you insult me again by suggesting that i “misread” your post…this is your site, and i’ll defend your right to post whatever you want, but you need to be prepared to be challenged and expect to hear differing points of view, and interpretations of what’s posted…if this site is merely about endless streams of semi-relevant stats, pontificating about nothing, or you breaking our balls [or our team's player's and management's balls] without allowing any push-back, you’ll be guaranteed to keep participation to a minimum of devoted sox fans and stepford yf’s, and in some cases you’ll probably wind up discussing your posts with yourself…

    dc September 29, 2008, 11:08 pm
  • yet you refuse to understand our point of you
    Really, not true. I wrote, before you posted the above this:
    I get that people might have read this as kicking YFs when they are down
    and this:
    In retrospect I do understand why YFs might have seen this is as a dig in general, but I am still a little lost as how it can be seen as a dig against YFs specifically.
    Let’s move on -

    SF September 30, 2008, 10:32 am
  • He’s right, we’re wrong…now let’s all move on and forget it. SF’s character is above reproach people…don’t you know anything? Jeez.

    krueg September 30, 2008, 10:39 am
  • enough, krueg, ok? You seem to be the only one still hanging on to this difference of opinion – we can all agree that feelings were hurt (which wasn’t my intent, you certainly can remain in disbelief if you so choose, I can’t change that sentiment clearly) and that I understand why they were hurt (though I sincerely believe that’s due to a misreading or, for sure, a lack of clarity on my part). Fair enough, let’s move on. But I certainly am not making any claims of being above reproach – I am not. I am just trying to make sure that facts are articulated as such. dc accused me of something that wasn’t true based on the actual comments issued, that’s all.

    SF September 30, 2008, 10:56 am
  • Yes sir.

    krueg September 30, 2008, 11:08 am

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