The Man Who Stands in the Way?

Kei_igawa

Word from MLBtraderumors.com is that the Yanks have buckled under the pressure and are reluctantly discussiong Kei Igawa as a possible trade piece in the Johan Santana negotations that technically shouldn’t be happening if Hank said what he meant:

The Yanks and Twins haven’t talked much lately, but apparently Kei Igawa‘s name has come up in the talks.

Clearly Bill Smith has won this round of Spit War Go Fish Poker, forcing Cashman to show his hand. Dammit, Brian! Stick to your guns, man! There’s no reason to include Kei Igawa in any deal.

Oh yeah, the post also mentions that the Twins now prefer Jacoby Ellsbury over Jon Lester. If they play their cards right, they just might get Julian Tavarez as well.

49 comments… add one

  • Igawa has four years and $16 million remaining on his contract, and though he struggled last year, some scouts say they think he could benefit from a change of scenery.
    So which team insisted that Igawa be in the deal, I wonder? And who are “some scouts”? Does Hank on background qualify as a “scout”?
    Take my Kei, PLEASE!

    SF December 11, 2007, 11:09 am
  • i pray that igawa’s inclusion in any trade requests had no bearing whatsoever on the ultimate result.

    sam-YF December 11, 2007, 11:10 am
  • Kei Igawa’s name came up in talks
    The only talks Igawa’s name came up in were the ones in the writer’s room at “Jeopardy” while the staff contemplated a “Biggest Waste of a Posting Fee” category.

    SF December 11, 2007, 11:13 am
  • I seriously wonder if Cashman was a little embarassed when he first uttered his name or if he did it with a stright face.

    Nick-YF December 11, 2007, 11:16 am
  • I picture Cashman keeping a straight face for about 3 seconds, and then laughing uncontrollably in Bill Smith’s face.
    Also, I’m pissed that both sides are now talking about Santana again. I need to study for finals, damnit! I can’t deal with this anymore!

    Atheose December 11, 2007, 11:26 am
  • The Star-Trib says talks with the Yanks are “dormant,” which would mean Igawa’s name must have come up at the meetings.
    It also says, the Twins and Sox are haggling over the fourth player to be included with Ellsbury-Lowrie-Masterson. Which seems odd that it would be what’s holding this whole thing up.
    Unless the Twins want the fourth player to be Buchholz, of course. Har.

    Paul SF December 11, 2007, 11:49 am
  • Y’know I have to agree a change of scenery could do Kei Igawa good. His 89 mph fastballs and hanging changes up in the zone will fare much better in the Metrodome. I also heard some scouts say the crisp Minneapolis air could give Carl Pavano’s ailing shoulder and buttocks new life, so maybe we can throw him in, too.
    -Mark

    Mark (YF) December 11, 2007, 11:52 am
  • To borrow a line from DC, zzzzzzzzzzzzz….
    I’m so bored with this. Just do something and move on.

    LocklandSF December 11, 2007, 11:56 am
  • Lockland, I’m with you.

    The Sheriff (Andrews) December 11, 2007, 12:35 pm
  • Again, the logical inconsistency that is running rampant:
    1) Dice-K was supposed to be an ace. He sometimes performed as such but overall was average. People generally expect him to transition well in his second year.
    2) Igawa was supposed to be a back of the rotation arm. He sometimes performed as such but overall was below average. People generally expect him to continue to stink.
    All I am asking for is consistency. Either Dice-K and Igawa both transition or they both continue to perform below expectations. I can not see how it can be any other way (though I\’m sure a Sox fan will try to argue that Dice-K is different because…). Their situations and even their problems (increased walks and homeruns) are too similar to ignore.

    Mike YF December 11, 2007, 12:37 pm
  • Mike, the difference I see is the fact that Igawa likes to pitch up in the zone with his mediocre fastball. It’s just not going to work in MLB like it did in Japan.

    Anonymous December 11, 2007, 12:44 pm
  • I dont really understand how the Twins and the Sox could still be “in talks” about Santana. At this point the two sides know what each other wants to get or give and there is nothing more to discuss. The ball is in the Twins court as to what they want to do but asking the Sox for the 20th time for the same players isnt gonna change the results.

    sam-YF December 11, 2007, 12:45 pm
  • Sam -
    The Sox had no interest in getting a deal done. They were \”blatantly\” trying to drive up the price for the Yankees – nothing more.

    Mike YF December 11, 2007, 12:47 pm
  • Sam, as part of their negotiations they are only allowed to say three words each day to each other.

    Nick-YF December 11, 2007, 12:47 pm
  • Mike, to expand on anon’s point, the bigger adjustments that I saw were things like moving from a 6 man rotation, smaller ball with more grip, mound height, then the usual social and cultural changes. I don’t really see how adjusting to any of that is going to add more speed to Kei’s fastball, or help him keep the ball down in the zone. That’s the type of pitcher he was.
    I do see all those factors playing a part in Matsuzaka’s control issues, his tendency to implode in one bad inning, pitch selection, etc.
    My point, from what I saw in both pitchers I feel it’s much more likely for Matsuzaka to mature as a MLB pitcher.

    LocklandSF December 11, 2007, 12:53 pm
  • “I also heard some scouts say the crisp Minneapolis air could give Carl Pavano’s ailing shoulder and buttocks new life, so maybe we can throw him in, too.”
    Since the topic of Pavano was broached, the comments in response to Pete Abe’s post are hilarious!
    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/12/11/yankees-offer-pavano-a-parachute/#comments

    Anonymous December 11, 2007, 12:56 pm
  • That was me.

    The Sheriff (Andrews) December 11, 2007, 12:59 pm
  • My god, that place if full of holiday spirit today. I can’t say I blame them though, what a d-bag.

    LocklandSF December 11, 2007, 1:08 pm
  • “a change of scenery could do Kei Igawa good”
    Yeah. If he moved to a planet without any Yankee fans he’d be much safer.

    IronHorse (yf) December 11, 2007, 1:12 pm
  • he moved to a planet without any Yankee fans he’d be much safer..
    Or baseballs. Just remote control cars and game systems..

    Brad December 11, 2007, 1:41 pm
  • The Yankees can also just release Pavano, the only reason they want him on a minor league deal, which he is under absolutely no obligation to sign up for, is to avoid the embarrassment of Pavano signing with another team and contributing something on the Yankee dime.
    So where is that in Pete’s story? Carl is just a “clown”. Nice, a journalist name-calling. That’s a great example to set from a professional journalist – no wonder the comments get nasty.
    So why don’t the Yankees just RELEASE him if they want the roster spot? What am I missing here?

    SF December 11, 2007, 1:43 pm
  • what you’re missing if I understand the situation correctly is that the yankees only collect insurance money if he is on a roster. It says so in Abe’s post and is a believable consideration. If they cut ties to him completely they will not receive this money. If this is right, the story is not an overreaction and extremely selfish on Pavano’s part.

    sam-YF December 11, 2007, 1:46 pm
  • Stick it to ‘em, Carl.

    Anonymous December 11, 2007, 1:57 pm
  • It’s a business, so Carl is technically right here. Taking a minor league contract from the Yanks would limit his ability to sign with other teams, and let’s be honest. There is another team that probably would be willing to sign him a major league deal.

    Nick-YF December 11, 2007, 2:01 pm
  • Look at it another way. I think it’s clear that there’s not a lot of good will between the two parties. How many leaks about Pavano’s work ethic and passion were there from management. By my count, there were a lot. Why would he want to help them out then?

    Nick-YF December 11, 2007, 2:03 pm
  • “My god, that place if full of holiday spirit today.”
    I really liked the reference to “It’s A Wonderful Life”:
    “The Yanks probably have a life insurance policy on the fool.He’s worth more dead than alive, George Bailey.”

    Anonymous December 11, 2007, 2:07 pm
  • “There is another team that probably would be willing to sign him a major league deal.”
    It’s okay, you can just come out and say it’s the Mets. If the Yankees do end up cutting him, I’d take a flier on him. And by “flier”, I mean, “a sheet of Domino’s coupons from the Sunday paper”.

    FenSheaParkway December 11, 2007, 2:09 pm
  • ” Why would he want to help them out then?”
    I know that if an organization just paid me 40M for 21 starts, I would feel that maybe I owed them one.

    Anonymous December 11, 2007, 2:12 pm
  • Do baseball teams give out money to players who gave them their best during their cost-controlled years and then suffered a big injury in their contract year?

    Nick-YF December 11, 2007, 2:18 pm
  • Technically, Pavano owes no one anything. The Yankees still owe him some money, unless they do decide to release him. An MLB contract is a guarantee of employment, not a guarantee of performance.

    Paul SF December 11, 2007, 2:35 pm
  • Hey, maybe Hank will set a deadline for Pavano to sign the MiL contract, then leave the door open for him to sign it whenever he wishes?

    Brad December 11, 2007, 2:41 pm
  • “Technically, Pavano owes no one anything.”
    True; I’m just saying that a decent person might feel that MORALLY he owed them, given the vast sum he’s been paid, for which he has done so little in return.

    The Sheriff (Andrews) December 11, 2007, 2:51 pm
  • ” The Yankees still owe him some money, unless they do decide to release him.”
    According to Cot’s, the yanks owe him 12.95M, whether they release him or not.

    The Sheriff (Andrews) December 11, 2007, 2:53 pm
  • Asking Pavano to give up his rights because the Yankees paid him a lot of money is an easy position to take. Pavano is a convenient target. As a converse, have the Red Sox sent a bag of money to Jonathan Papelbon? To Jacoby Ellsbury? Have the Sox said “hey, Paps really helped NESN make a ton more ad revenue, let’s send him a couple of million”? Does Ownership, out of the kindness of their heart, give rights to players just because the players performed well, unilaterally? Or do they hold players to their contracts as per the Collective Bargaining Agreement that they negotiated? Why should Pavano be expected to give something back to Ownership just because he got paid while hurt, and why should fans excoriate him for being “selfish” when he signed a deal and agreed, as a member of a union, to the CBA that gives him certain rights, rights which he shouldn’t have to donate to a team out of generosity?
    I don’t have any love for Carl Pavano. But what justifies Pete calling him a “clown”? That he isn’t looking out for the Yankees’ financial interests? Isn’t that the team’s own responsibility? Pete is effectively calling Pavano a jerk because he won’t help the Yankees collect their insurance money at the expense of his own career flexibility.

    SF December 11, 2007, 2:55 pm
  • True; I’m just saying that a decent person might feel that MORALLY he owed them, given the vast sum he’s been paid, for which he has done so little in return.
    Does ownership feel a moral obligation to pay cheap, young players for their performance if they overachieve? Why should they?

    SF December 11, 2007, 2:59 pm
  • Completely agree with SF. It’s interesting to see how little the morality standard is applied to management by fans.

    Nick-YF December 11, 2007, 2:59 pm
  • It’s especially interesting because just last week, some people (in both fandoms) were saying the Sox were morally obligated to at least consider giving Josh Beckett a new contract if Johan Santana signed with the team.
    If anyone deserves more money, it’s Jonathan Papelbon, who is making peanuts (comparatively) despite putting up arguably the best relief season in Red Sox history … TWICE.

    Paul SF December 11, 2007, 3:06 pm
  • some people (in both fandoms) were saying the Sox were morally obligated to at least consider giving Josh Beckett a new contract if Johan Santana signed with the team
    Not sure if that’s what people were saying, Paul. I don’t think morality entered the discussion. I think the talk was about whether or not Beckett deserved to be given a raise and whether he had the leverage needed to get that raise if the team acquired Santana. There was no discussion of morality, I don’t think. Someone should correct me if my memory is faulty, though.

    SF December 11, 2007, 3:16 pm
  • Well, the implication is morality — or maybe ethics. No one was arguing the Sox were legally required to do so, but Gammons seemed to be leading the charge that the Sox would HAVE to do so. For what other reason, if not on moral grounds?
    Back to the original point of this thread. Olney today:
    “Wrote here last Friday that the folks in position to have insight into the Johan Santana talks strongly believe that the Twins and Red Sox will eventually work out a deal, and as Joe Christensen writes this morning, the two sides continue to talk. The Twins seem to prefer a package built around center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, rather than Jon Lester.
    It goes without saying that the Red Sox rotation could be extraordinary this year, with this alignment:
    RHP Josh Beckett
    LHP Johan Santana
    RHP Curt Schilling
    RHP Daisuke Matsuzaka
    RHP Tim Wakefield/Clay Buchholz”
    Nothing really new, but damn, that rotation.

    Paul SF December 11, 2007, 3:38 pm
  • FWIW, I thought the Beckett talk was based on the business angle. In any case, I find that when it comes to salaries and money, most fans are able to express their anger with more frequency toward “overpaid” athletes; not stingy ownership.

    Nick-YF December 11, 2007, 3:43 pm
  • Paul, looking at that rotation, I just don’t understand how the Yanks can let that happen. I guess myabe it’s wishful thinking, but I don’t think the Yanks are out of the Johan sweepstakes.

    Nick-YF December 11, 2007, 3:45 pm
  • And “Schilling” could really be “Schilling/Lester”, if Lester isn’t included in the deal and Curt can’t make 30 starts.

    SF December 11, 2007, 4:00 pm
  • At least if the Sox deal Ellsbury I can keep saying “God bless Coco!” throughout the season when he earns his second first gold glove.
    God that rotation is amazing.

    Atheose December 11, 2007, 4:08 pm
  • Paul, looking at that rotation, I just don’t understand how the Yanks can let that happen. I guess myabe it’s wishful thinking, but I don’t think the Yanks are out of the Johan sweepstakes.
    I agree Nick. I have an eerie feeling that the Yanks swoop in and get him. They CAN’T let him slip through their fingers, and letting him come to the Sox just makes things unfair all around.

    Atheose December 11, 2007, 4:11 pm
  • The Yanks WILL pay the Twins’ asking price when the time comes. Unless Hank the Tank is willing to actually re-build (and I don’t think he *really* is, given the veteran re-signings this year), he’s going to grab Santana, even at the cost of Hughes, Kennedy, Cabrera. But if he doesn’t, I think I might stop calling him Hank the Tank. (Well, maybe not…I just find him pretty funny/a good show.)
    Way late to say this, but I was right about A-Rod opting out and then coming back (not that a million people predicted that or anything).

    Devine December 11, 2007, 4:27 pm
  • For what it’s worth, I believe in giving Josh Beckett a bigger contract because he was good if and only if Josh Beckett gives back the money when say, his elbow blows out or something.
    Contracts are signed to help both sides. You don’t have to sign them, but that’s the “risk” you take.

    Lar December 11, 2007, 5:28 pm
  • ” But what justifies Pete calling him a “clown”?
    Maybe his dubious injury record?
    Throughout his time with the Yanks, Pavano has had, according to many an endless stream of suspect ailments which have kept him off the mound. I don’t know of any other pitcher who has insisted on having TJ sugery when there was doubt in some doctors” minds whether or not it was needed. He’s a clown.
    Your point about his contract is a good one, technically. I think, however, there is a chance that doing the right thing by the Yankees might be something that would benefit Pavano in future negotiations with other clubs – with his career in shambles, showing a little character certainly won’t hurt him.
    As for his flexibility, since he had TJ in June, and hasn’t exactly been a quick healer recently, his chances of pitching competitively next season are quite slim. He doesn’t have a lot to lose.

    Anonymous December 11, 2007, 5:51 pm
  • IPK + Igawa + Horne + Melky + Gardner. Lo, it shall be so. But seriously, SFs, can you give me some insight into why the Twins want the entire rotation from the Yankees but are willing to settle for Lester/Ellsbury ++ (but not both! no! never!) and why they’re giving the Sox a pass on Buch-y?

    Saint Yrieix of the Yankees December 11, 2007, 5:54 pm
  • Also, I think we’re reading too much into Pete’s name-calling. I always figured Pavano was a clown because of his hilarious season-ending pratfalls (arm goes flying, buttocks injured in freak industrial accident, etc). He’s either a clown or one of Batman’s nemeses (note: not mutually exclusive!).

    Saint Yrieix of the Yankees December 11, 2007, 5:59 pm

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