The View From Up Here: Jays-Sox Gamer XIV

Two of the finest pitchers in the game square off at Fenway as Doc and Josh take the mound. This is the kind of the game that gerbil truly enjoys, at least on paper. Lineups follow, comment away.

Toronto
V. Wells cf .252
M. Stairs lf .312
A. Rios rf .310
F. Thomas dh .269
T. Glaus 3b .263
L. Overbay 1b .250
A. Hill 2b .270
G. Zaun c .241
J. McDonald ss .250

R. Halladay 3.87

Boston
J. Lugo ss .239
D. Pedroia 2b .327
D. Ortiz dh .318
M. Lowell 3b .333
J.D. Drew rf .256
K. Youkilis 1b .288
J. Varitek c .261
C. Crisp cf .266
J. Ellsbury lf .393

J. Beckett rhp 3.29

241 comments… add one
  • Wells grounds out to third and Stairs strikes out.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:11 pm
  • Rios takes Beckett’s first pitch of the AB to center for a single.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:14 pm
  • Thomas swings at pitch that was rather low on a 3-0 count to fly out to center.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:16 pm
  • Lugo grounds out to 3rd to start the bottom of the 1st.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:17 pm
  • Nice play, Glaus.
    You @$$hole.

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:17 pm
  • Hi, rob.

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:17 pm
  • Pedroia singles to right. The kid is on fire.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:18 pm
  • Pedroia singles to right.

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:18 pm
  • Hey Devine, how goes it?

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:18 pm
  • Hahahahaha Devine.
    This ump has a pretty big strikezone, but he looks like he’s been consistent for both pitchers. Too early to tell much, but it looks like runs might be a premium tonight.
    And right as I type that, Pedroia gets himself a hit. No no-hitters tonight.

    Atheose September 4, 2007, 7:19 pm
  • I would really like for us to get to Halladay early in the game and not let him get in a groove.
    Papi line sout.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:19 pm
  • Rios runs in and grabs Papi’s liner to right.

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:20 pm
  • Ortizzle makes great contact, but it’s caught by Rios. 2 down.

    Atheose September 4, 2007, 7:20 pm
  • Lowell 6-17 w/ 3HR in his career off Halladay.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:20 pm
  • Lowell has a 16-game hit streak? Nice.

    Atheose September 4, 2007, 7:21 pm
  • Lowell got ate up with that low and away breaking ball.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:21 pm
  • I seem to recall the Sox really getting to Halladay a couple of times, though one of them was right before he went out with appendicitis.

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:22 pm
  • That was the game Devine, the guy has thrown like 3 or 4 staright complete games. Not what I want to see tonight.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:23 pm
  • ouch. Poor Lugo, he tries so hard and sometimes he makes these gigundo muffs because of it.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 7:27 pm
  • Lugo with another error.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:27 pm
  • Caught the tail end of that play. Lugo’s fault or no shot at the ball?

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:27 pm
  • Ah yes. His fault, then.

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:28 pm
  • It sure has been nice seeing the magic number shrink by 2 every day recently. (he said apropos of nothing)

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:29 pm
  • A sweet DP! Around the horn and me loves it.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 7:30 pm
  • Woohoo! DP started by Lowell. Looked close at 1st.

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:30 pm
  • Hill thankfully GIDP to end the inning.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:31 pm
  • Who is this Number 7 person? I’ve not seen a hit in quite some time.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 7:32 pm
  • Drew got a hit?

    rootbeerfloat September 4, 2007, 7:33 pm
  • Drew was actually able to remove the bat from his shoulder.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:34 pm
  • Tek K’s

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:35 pm
  • hoem for lunch.
    Someone tell me WHY Ellsbury isn’t leading off? Wasnt the Ellsbury/Pedroia combination awesome enough last ngiht to warrent another go? I fail to understand

    Dionysus September 4, 2007, 7:37 pm
  • Halladay keeping the ball down to Coco. Seems like he’s (Halladay) been a master of location this AB. I guess he is that in general, though.

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:39 pm
  • Even though Ellsbury isn’t leading off, the thought of Coco, Ellsbury and Lugo all hitting in a row means VERY fast baserunners, if they can get on base.

    Atheose September 4, 2007, 7:39 pm
  • Number 7 got a big hit in yesterday’s game to kickstart the Sox’s final rally (the double off the wall to set up 2nd and 3rd, none out).
    However, he HAS been sh*t this year, that’s for sure.

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:40 pm
  • At the very leats this AB is buildign pitch count

    Dionysus September 4, 2007, 7:40 pm
  • This has the makings of a very long night

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:41 pm
  • I think thats gonan be key in this game. Both bullpens are tired, whoever gets to the other first is the likely winner.
    Coco goruns out but manages to drive Halladays pitch coutn up to 29

    Dionysus September 4, 2007, 7:42 pm
  • Ohhhhhhhhh! Beckett’s hook for strike 2 on the outside corner just made me go “ahhhhhhh” out loud at work.

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:43 pm
  • Someone tell me WHY Ellsbury isn’t leading off? Wasnt the Ellsbury/Pedroia combination awesome enough last ngiht to warrent another go? I fail to understand
    Wondering the same thing myself. Worked so well that Tito is scared to do it again.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:43 pm
  • Wicked running play from Lowell to Youks. Nicely done.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 7:43 pm
  • So, rob, your sayign it was TOO awesome and Tito is afraid of ripping ahole in the fabric of space-time by employign such awesomeness again?
    I see.

    Dionysus September 4, 2007, 7:45 pm
  • Didn’t you guys hear about the Ellsbury Rules?

    FenSheaParkway September 4, 2007, 7:46 pm
  • “ripping ahole”
    That’s certainly what the Sox offense did yesterday.

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:46 pm
  • Didn’t you guys hear about the Ellsbury Rules?
    He’s allowed to throw at people’s heads?

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 7:46 pm
  • Why would Lugo EVER lead off?!

    SF September 4, 2007, 7:47 pm
  • Because Tito hates our Freedom, SF

    Dionysus September 4, 2007, 7:49 pm
  • Why would Lugo EVER lead off?!
    To make SF angry.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:49 pm
  • Stolen base, but he got Wells looking (who has a bazillion home runs or so vs. Beckett lifetime).

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:49 pm
  • Hard to be angry about anything right now, frankly. More like “confused”. Did Tito not see last night’s game?

    SF September 4, 2007, 7:50 pm
  • Oof, this ump has definitely made a couple of borderline calls for both pitchers That 1-2 pitch to Stairs was very close.

    Anonymous September 4, 2007, 7:51 pm
  • Supposedly Tito sets the lineup depending on who is pitching.
    Not sure other than the old, righty-lefty thing that it matters.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:51 pm
  • That was me…

    SF September 4, 2007, 7:51 pm
  • Jacoby’s a lefty, though, so that makes no sense.

    SF September 4, 2007, 7:51 pm
  • OK, well done Julio. Thank goodness Matt Stairs runs like he’s a double-amputee with no money for prostheses.
    Runs, fellas!

    SF September 4, 2007, 7:52 pm
  • Come on Ellsbury!! Get things started.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:52 pm
  • Out of it on the grounder to short.

    Devine September 4, 2007, 7:52 pm
  • Did anyone see the highlights from yesterday’s Cubs game? Zambrano got thrown out on a play at home. He made Papi look like a 100m dash champion.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:53 pm
  • Jacoby with the leadoff single! Time to face to the right and head to second.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:55 pm
  • Wow, that was quick, even for a SB.

    FenSheaParkway September 4, 2007, 7:56 pm
  • He steals! Lugo needs to sac him over.

    rob September 4, 2007, 7:56 pm
  • Seriously… this guy is amazing. Im glad he wasnt playign all year.. then he and Pedroia would have to fight each other for ROY

    Dionysus September 4, 2007, 7:57 pm
  • Nice Jacoby!

    SF September 4, 2007, 7:57 pm
  • OK, good eye by Julio to get it full…
    and the payoff pitch: bad eye, Julio! Looking at the third strike. Passive, there. Too close to take.

    SF September 4, 2007, 7:58 pm
  • And Lugo called out on Ks. WHY DIDNT HE BUNT ELLSBURY OVER?

    Dionysus September 4, 2007, 7:58 pm
  • Dustin pops to center. Poor hitting by the Sox here with Ellsbury at second. With Beckett on the mound, I actually wouldn’t have minded the sacrifice, get the lead. Bad baseball. Grrr. Now THAT makes me a little peeved.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:00 pm
  • This is a pitchers duel people. That means its time to go fro the small ball. Dammit. If we dont score now, Im gonna kill Tito for not giving the bunt sign

    Dionysus September 4, 2007, 8:00 pm
  • I like the fact that Tito is basically saying “Julio Lugo, now there’s the guy I want getting the MOST at-bats on our team tonight”. How does this make any sense?

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:01 pm
  • If gamedays location is correct, Ellsbury would have scored on Pedroias fly.. ahd he been at third liek he shoudl have been

    Dionysus September 4, 2007, 8:01 pm
  • This is going to be one of those nights I end up walking away angry.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:03 pm
  • If gamedays location is correct, Ellsbury would have scored on Pedroias fly.. ahd he been at third liek he shoudl have been
    Yeah, he would have scored on that flyball, but you can’t make the assumption that Pedroia would have done the same thing with Ellsbury on third. That’s a fallacy. Still, they should have bunted, I agree.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:05 pm
  • Does Halladay have any other superfluous body parts that need removing? Tonsils? Spleen? Anything? The Sox (and Terry) could use a little help here.

    FenSheaParkway September 4, 2007, 8:06 pm
  • Do the Sox ever get Rios out? It seems like he’s hitting .900 against us this year.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:06 pm
  • Yay, they got him out!

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:07 pm
  • Good K on Thomas. Two down.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:09 pm
  • Overbay out on the fly to Crisp. Four scoreless for Beckett.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:11 pm
  • Drew, Youk and Tek up. Sounds like the three Whiffateers.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:13 pm
  • Drew draws the walk surprisingly.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:14 pm
  • Leadoff walk for JD, he’s been on-base twice tonight.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:14 pm
  • I am attempting a little negative reinforcement for those three.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:18 pm
  • You guy LAY OFF my friend JD, who just motored to third on a single by Youk.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:18 pm
  • Something I can’t stand: Tek’s little spin-move after a called strike he doesn’t like.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:18 pm
  • Time to break through.

    FenSheaParkway September 4, 2007, 8:19 pm
  • Tek obviously was not listening to me.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:19 pm
  • God, that was a PITIFUL at-bat from Tek. He’s really not at all dependable in important spots, at least that’s what it seems like to me.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:20 pm
  • COCO WITH WHEELS! Beats out the DP ball and Drew scores. 1-0 Sox.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:20 pm
  • ooh, lucky, looks like Coco was out by a bit.
    ELLSBURY!!! DINGER!!!
    3-0.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:21 pm
  • Coco drives the run in.
    We have a lead.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:21 pm
  • ELLSBURY!!!!!
    he is the heat!!

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:22 pm
  • I think they should consider making Ellsbury the 4th outfielder next year.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:22 pm
  • Lugo with a gapper – double for J-Train.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:23 pm
  • Okay, Jacoby’s power certainly wasn’t at the forefront of any report I read. Are these Debut Dingers, or were the scouts holding out on us?

    FenSheaParkway September 4, 2007, 8:23 pm
  • Halladay falling apart. Lugo doubles.
    Pedroia is up.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:23 pm
  • I think they should consider making Ellsbury the 4th outfielder next year.
    This could be the off-season they finally take cents on the dollar for Manny.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:24 pm
  • Droid rips one to the wall, 4-0 Sox!

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:25 pm
  • It may be SF, I think we let Manny go if we can get ARod.
    The Gecko doubles!!

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:25 pm
  • Papi…blood is in the water.
    Finish Halladay.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:25 pm
  • Dustin Pedroia is the tits.

    QuoSF September 4, 2007, 8:26 pm
  • Dustin Sequoia, keeping things moving…

    FenSheaParkway September 4, 2007, 8:26 pm
  • 72 pitches, 1-0 to Papi.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:26 pm
  • Inning over – well done!

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:27 pm
  • The questions is for next year, do we let Manny go and start Elssbury full time if we do not get ARod. I think if we do not we keep Manny next year and use Ellsbury as the 4th oufielder.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:29 pm
  • Hell, let’s just put Coco and Ellsbury in the outfield- with their speed, we’ll only need TWO outfielders.

    Ayuh - SF September 4, 2007, 8:31 pm
  • No way… If Manny is healthy, he’s still the best option offensively out there. Now starting Jacoby over Drew is another story entirely.

    ToddSF September 4, 2007, 8:32 pm
  • What’s the scoop in Ellsbury’s arm? I’d love to see him in right next year.

    Ayuh - SF September 4, 2007, 8:33 pm
  • From SoxProspects.com:
    Scouting Report: Amazing athlete with a great work ethic. Ellsbury has consistently won awards for his defensive play in centerfield. He is extremely fast and knows how to run the bases (but does get picked off a little too often). Great on base ability. Gap power with the ability to leg singles into doubles and doubles into triples. Not much home run power. Projects well as a major league lead-off hitter. Doesn’t slump too often because you can’t turn off his blazing speed. Team leader. Lettered and excelled in five sports in high school, including football, where he could have played at a high collegiate level as a kickoff returner. However, he enjoyed baseball the most. Could stand to bulk up a little bit. Arm strength is average.
    MLB Comparison: Kenny Lofton

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:35 pm
  • Definately need a DP here.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:36 pm
  • Beckett getting loose here. Come on, Josh.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:37 pm
  • Ellsbury is not starting over Drew unless Drew is traded. I don’t see him as a fourth outfielder; he’s spent enough time developing to be given a fair shot at a full-time job. So either Drew gets traded (and Ellsbury doesn’t have right-field arm strength making that less likely) or the Sox take advantage of Manny only having one year left on his deal and move him to a team he will approve of for talent. I see the latter happening more readily than the former.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:39 pm
  • Or, Crisp gets traded. That would not make me happy, frankly. I like Crisp a lot.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:40 pm
  • Makes sense. I do not see the Sox trading Drew and saying they made a mistake. We already did that with Renteria.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:40 pm
  • Are you f*cking kidding me? Matt Stairs?
    Terrible work by Beckett this inning. Jeez. Four run lead and he hands it back to a f*cking pantload.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:41 pm
  • Friggin Stairs. Where was that when he was with us?

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:41 pm
  • Beckett with 82 pitches through 5

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:42 pm
  • Youk has now struck out in 5 of his last 7 AB’s.

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:49 pm
  • Halladay with 80 pitches through 5

    rob September 4, 2007, 8:51 pm
  • Youk’s cold, not good.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 8:51 pm
  • This game seems to have taken a turn: Beckett struggling to get guys out now, can’t shut the door after getting ahead of Thomas. Leadoff single for Big Frank.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:53 pm
  • For what its worth, I don’t see the Sox trading Drew either (not that they could right now, IMO), but the literal thought of him being our biggest name OF *if* Manny leaves scares the hell out of me. Manny certainly has the highest chance of not being with the team next year, but then who is gonna protect Papi then? Lowell has been brilliant lately, but he’s not the answer. He may not even be here next year either.

    ToddSF September 4, 2007, 8:56 pm
  • Glad to have missed the high and low here. I just walk into a lead…and a Blue-Jays-half-ending DP!

    Devine September 4, 2007, 8:57 pm
  • re: Varitek
    Career with RISP he hits .256, below his career .268 average.
    Career with the bases full he hits .231
    Career with 2 outs, RISP, he’s at .240
    Career, late and close: .271
    2007 RISP: .231
    2007 late/close: .349
    2007 two outs, RISP: .183

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:58 pm
  • I see Crisp as the most likely to be traded — he’s good, affordable, plays the position Ellsbury is clearly ready to step into.

    Paul SF September 4, 2007, 8:58 pm
  • Jeez, Thomas didn’t even make a run at the bag, went out of the baseline at Lugo about five feet to the right of second, how is that not interference?
    DP turned regardless, but that was marginal.

    SF September 4, 2007, 8:59 pm
  • Tek is just horrid.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:00 pm
  • Tek has been brutal at the plate last 2 weeks.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 9:00 pm
  • I really hope they don’t trade Crisp.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:00 pm
  • Tek hit .234 in August, hitting .222 (not including tonight) in the short September month. He looks awful, like he’s got no shot at even making contact right now.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:01 pm
  • 2004 aside, Tek has tailed off dramatically and horiffically in the final two months of each season.

    Paul SF September 4, 2007, 9:02 pm
  • Ah well, catchers have always been more important behind the plate. As long as he continues to call good games and goes at least 1-20, I won’t be too irritated.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 9:02 pm
  • Methinks that with no Oki or Papelbon available tonight (per Don and Jerry), this four runs may not get it done. I can’t imagine that they would send Delcarmen back out either, and unless Beckett has an extremely fast inning, he hasn’t much time left either.
    Should be interesting, and as long as it has NOTHING to do with Mike Timlin, there is hope.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:02 pm
  • Crisp is really tagging the ball but getting no luck: last night he crushed three balls and only had a single hit out of those three, tonight he rips one right at Wells.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:03 pm
  • Someone else care to explain why Lugo and Ellsbury are switched in the order?

    Paul SF September 4, 2007, 9:03 pm
  • Yeah, Tek is on pace to start getting pinch hit for late in games…
    Man, that hurt to say.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:03 pm
  • I’d say that there’s a good chance the Sox don’t hold onto this game, as you say Brad. I think we see Timlin for sure, and maybe Corey. Ugh.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:03 pm
  • I guess it’ll be a Snyder and Corey night. That should be interesting, to say the least. Unless Gagne’s feeling better…

    Paul SF September 4, 2007, 9:04 pm
  • TRIPLE>>>>>>>
    THe FIRE!!!!
    Holy Shit he is fast…he was near second when it landed..

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:04 pm
  • Ellsbury with a triple! Almost a jack to right. He doesn’t have this kind of power, I don’t think – but he crushed a decent pitch from Halladay there, low and just off the dirt.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:04 pm
  • Ellsbury! A double short of the cycle, yes?

    Paul SF September 4, 2007, 9:05 pm
  • WOWOWOW!!!! This kid gets better every at bat!

    ToddSF September 4, 2007, 9:05 pm
  • A double will do it, Paul, that’s correct.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:05 pm
  • Just thought I’d stop by and ask…. Coco or Jacoby in 2008?????

    TJ September 4, 2007, 9:06 pm
  • I always forget about Snyder…
    Oh, did I mention that I love Jacoby on this team, which is where he should be since he isn’t a prospect?

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:06 pm
  • Would love it if Lugo got him home.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 9:06 pm
  • What a nasty pitch to Lugo there. One more and that’s a K, no doubt.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:06 pm
  • SF – I’ve seen him play quite a bit, and while you’re near right in your power estimate, he does hit A LOT of warning track outs in Pawtucket.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:07 pm
  • And instead he strikes out pretending its ball 4.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 9:07 pm
  • Stated before:
    trade Manny. Coco to left, Ellsbury to center, Drew stays. Find a bat. Maybe down I-95…

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:07 pm
  • A good reason why you don’t want Lugo batting leadoff. At least put Pedroia up there. Sheesh…

    Paul SF September 4, 2007, 9:08 pm
  • I hate to think about the Ellsbury or Coco debate that’s going to rage all winter, but I think in the end, it’s going to be Ellsbury with Coco/Manny getting traded somewhere.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:09 pm
  • SF, we’re in tune tonight. I nearly typed it, but figured I’d stay away from the arguments that surely follow such statements.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:10 pm
  • Hopefully Beckett can get through this spot in the order, though Hill seems to handle the Sox well and Zaun always ends up pissing me off for some reason.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:10 pm
  • It always seems to me that Lowell knows exactly how hard he has to throw the ball to get the out. He shows flashes of an absolute cannon when he’s in the hole or behind the bag, but when it’s a routine grounder, he just gets it there in time – everytime.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:11 pm
  • Is it possible that the Sox move Lugo for pennies and slot Lowrie in, Brad?

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:12 pm
  • That was Lugo, Brad.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:12 pm
  • Zaun = Hilenbrand. Only worse.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:12 pm
  • WTF was wrong with that 2-1 pitch to Zaun? Come on, Blue.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:13 pm
  • Zaun popped up, Lowell makes the grab. Two down.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:13 pm
  • I’d prefer Timlin over Snyder, at least. Snyder walks too many guys and seems to almost always come in with control issues (which he does seem to correct during the outing(s)). Maybe Corey 8th, Timlin 9th? Given the options anyway. I’d prefer Timlin’s “beat my defense” mentality than Snyder’s “let’s be way too careful because my fastball isn’t nearly as good as it was pre-surgery”.

    QuoSF September 4, 2007, 9:13 pm
  • Steven Tyler Tina Cervasio says that Gagne still unavailable. Doesn’t sound good – Tito says “progress” but it doesn’t seem like he’s that close based on how they explain the situation.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:14 pm
  • Quick inning for Beckett – I imagine he starts the eighth with a short leash.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:15 pm
  • Coco + Lester + ?? for Miguel Cabrera?

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:17 pm
  • I know Lowrie’s glove is better, and while his range is not as good as Lugo’s, not many SS do have that kind of range. He’s not as fast, and I’m not so sure he’s ready for the jump.
    In reality, I can see them making a move for a SS and eating some of his contract for a stop-gap for next year. Say, Tejada, who we all know will be available. If they moved Manny, that kind of bat is almost a must have. Tejada will only be one year deal, Baltimore could pay partial money on Lugo, and we would have a bigger bat rental until Lowrie is ready. Lowrie would probably get the late call-up for defensive purposes.
    But, I do see them moving Manny this year, so a bat like Tejada’s would be essential, and really, unless they make a huge deal for a third baseman, that’s the only spot they can make that kind of move.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:18 pm
  • Anyone think Hatchet Face/Batshit McCracken may make a surprise appearance? He’s not scheduled to start anytime soon.
    Interesting idea, SF. I would guess they might actually be more interested in a position player (C or 3B, maybe?) in Lester’s spot rather than Lester himself. Several young starters to sort through down there as it is.

    QuoSF September 4, 2007, 9:21 pm
  • No way. They ask for Buchholz and Delcarmen for Miguel. A deal that I would NEVER make. If they ask anything more than what you just said, I never do it. He is a young Manny Ramirez, and while anyone with a brain would love to have that, I’m tired of coming up with defense arguments to support that crap.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:22 pm
  • Not that we have a C or 3B prospect to send unfortunately.

    QuoSF September 4, 2007, 9:22 pm
  • I don’t know if the Birds would be willing to trade Tejada inside the division. I’d love to see him in a Sox uniform, just for one year.

    Ayuh - SF September 4, 2007, 9:22 pm
  • See what I mean? He throws just as hard as he has to. Never more, never less.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:23 pm
  • Tito had better have someone ready here in the 8th, I’m tired of him leaving pitches out there to dry.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 9:23 pm
  • Move Manny in a contract year??
    Bush, I say. BUSH!

    BostonRAW September 4, 2007, 9:24 pm
  • Oh, he’s going, Ayuh. They are not going to put up with anymore of his antics about being traded, and he’s a FA this year, so they’re going to look for a viable replacement, locked up for awhile. Lugo fits the bill, but the Sox, as always, are going to foot part of the contract. Like half of it.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:24 pm
  • Papelbon is stretching. Do they use him three times in a row?

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:25 pm
  • Miguel is a young Manny whose personality quirks make him appear to be a humongous jackass rather than just a lovable hitting savant.

    QuoSF September 4, 2007, 9:25 pm
  • Sox when leading after 7:
    75-3 .962
    This isn’t a jinx and I will NOT be blamed if something bad happens (which it might), I am just giving everyone the facts: most teams have phenomenal records when leading after 7 innings, the Devil Rays win at over an .800 clip when in the same position, the Royals are 50-9 in that spot.
    Meanwhile, I fear Alex Rios. A lot.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:25 pm
  • 117 pitches and a nasty K to end the 8th!

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 9:27 pm
  • Rios Ks! Good effort by Beckett, but for the Stairfart.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:27 pm
  • I won’t say it, but he has a nice trophy headed his way soon, and Paul is going to get a nice free car wash when it goes down.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:27 pm
  • You, my friend, will ABSOLUTLEY be blamed.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:28 pm
  • I don’t doubt that Tejada is leaving Baltimore- I just don’t think he’s staying in the AL East. But you never know- these are the Orioles we’re dealing with.

    Ayuh - SF September 4, 2007, 9:28 pm
  • Tejada’s trends aren’t, uh, great. But for one year I suppose he’d be ok. All depends on what happens around that spot, I suppose.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:28 pm
  • Alex Rios is an absolute nasty ballplayer, so your fears are well founded. To bad, on this night, the ace had control of it…
    Awesome. YOUKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:29 pm
  • Youk rips one!!! Dinger to deep center!

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:30 pm
  • Nice insurance run from Youk!

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 9:30 pm
  • Yeah, that’s what I’m saying, SF. It’s only one year, he provides awesome power with Ortiz in front and Lowell or maybe the real JD Drew behind. Then, it’s Lowrie time, who is better than Tejada or Lugo as an all round player.
    Papelbon up and preparing to continue his absolute dominance of his role.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:31 pm
  • Tek SMASHES one. 300 feet.
    He looks cooked. Might be time to revert to “Toast”.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:31 pm
  • Maybe it’s the SS fatigue talking, but if getting rid of Lugo meant eating a huge chunk of his salary AND taking on another short term experiment, I’d sort of rather just stick with Lugo. I think his ability is closer to what he’s done in the second half than the first.

    FenSheaParkway September 4, 2007, 9:32 pm
  • Doc does not want to lose this game to Beckett.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:32 pm
  • I think Lowrie will get a full season at AAA next year before any decision is made…
    That gives Boston atleast a season to bring Lugo’s value up.
    I think the most intriguing thing this winter and next spring will be the corner infield. Will they make a run at A Rod? If not do they just simply move Youk to third and sign a veteran 3rd baseman to have and give Chris Carter a shot to win the 1st base job in the spring and have the fall back with the veteran if he doesn’t perform well.

    TJ September 4, 2007, 9:32 pm
  • Papelbon up and preparing to continue his absolute dominance of his role.

    Dude, you just took the jinx blame from me.
    Another ball crushed by Crisp tracked down just short of the fence. He’s really had no luck these last two nights.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:33 pm
  • Hey if you guys could be so kind and lose we would greatly appreciate it! 9-1 Yanks.

    John - YF (Trisk) September 4, 2007, 9:33 pm
  • You need some patience, Brad. Lugo, Crisp and JD are very talented, multi-faceted players. I’d rather they all stay, and if Manny is going he alone is replaced with another power bat. First or third base. Your choice.

    BostonRAW September 4, 2007, 9:35 pm
  • If not do they just simply move Youk to third and sign a veteran 3rd baseman to have and give Chris Carter a shot to win the 1st base job in the spring and have the fall back with the veteran if he doesn’t perform well.
    I just can’t see the Sox going into a season with a potential rookie at first and a middling power hitter (Youk) at third. That’s just not enough power from the corners. I see them making a run at Lowell and leaving Youk at first before going with a strategy like you describe. If what you describe happens, it’s because the Sox were asleep at the wheel, and it would be a potential disaster as far as I am concerned.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:35 pm
  • No way dude! We like winning- it’s, like, way better than losing.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF September 4, 2007, 9:35 pm
  • Oh, I agree, FSP. I’d rather keep Lugo for another year, then…it’s Lowrie. I always thought they abandoned Edgar to quickly, and I’d hate to do it again. Also, by keeping Lowrie, you could always use him as the chip to get Orlando back, who should have never left to begin with..
    All of this is based on the idea of trading ManRam, which probably won’t happen again, but if it does, the only viable options they have that aren’t pitchers would be Lugo and Coco. No way they trade any of these current prospects. Maybe Moss, but not likely.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:35 pm
  • Lowrie’s defense according to Sox Prospects:
    Lowrie is an intelligent shortstop with slightly below average range and a decent glove. His arm is strong but he needs to work on his throwing accuracy. May be moved to 2B, but his strong work ethic is increasing the chances he could stick at SS.
    Aside from the “slightly”, he sounds like someone we all know who plays in NY.

    QuoSF September 4, 2007, 9:35 pm
  • I shudder to think if Chris Carter at first- he makes Mo Vaughn look like Brooks Robinson

    Ayuh - SF September 4, 2007, 9:36 pm
  • LOL this coming from the same person advocating 2 speedy poweless outfielders?while at the same time the third OF couldnt hit a HR to save his mothers life.

    TJ September 4, 2007, 9:37 pm
  • “Hey if you guys could be so kind and lose we would greatly appreciate it! 9-1 Yanks”
    You have one pitcher left. What ever will you do after him?
    :)

    BostonRAW September 4, 2007, 9:37 pm
  • He may make Mo Vaughn look like Brooks Robinson, but he did some fine work on the X-Files.

    QuoSF September 4, 2007, 9:38 pm
  • “You have one pitcher left. What ever will you do after him?”
    No clue what that means BR.

    John - YF (Trisk) September 4, 2007, 9:39 pm
  • I know. I don’t want Lugo or Drew gone, but Coco, while playing excellent CF this year is simply holding the spot for a better player in Jacoby.
    Manny, I can deal without, so Coco HAS to be the chip involved there.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:39 pm
  • “May be moved to 2B”
    Ummm, I don’t think so. Not for the SOX, anyway.

    BostonRAW September 4, 2007, 9:39 pm
  • “he needs to work on his throwing accuracy… unless he’s throwing rainbows from deep in the hole.”
    Now I think the report sounds like who I think you want it to sound like. heh.

    FenSheaParkway September 4, 2007, 9:40 pm
  • Paps!!!
    I think he’ll be unavailable tomorrow.
    BIG win. Superb work from Beckett, Ellsbury, Paps, etc.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:41 pm
  • Sorry Trisk, can’t help you. Sox win!

    Devine September 4, 2007, 9:41 pm
  • I’m sure he won’t be, RAW, but that’s the crux. If he can’t handle the territory at SS, then he’s trade bait.
    He may have a full year at AAA next season anyway, could be a good time for him to learn 3B.

    QuoSF September 4, 2007, 9:41 pm
  • See, I didn’t jinx squat.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:41 pm
  • Yankees continue to boost their Pythagorean record, which, as we all know, counts for nothing.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:42 pm
  • It means I am not impressed with any starter the Yanks can come up with after Wang and Pettitte. Nor are you, I assume.

    BostonRAW September 4, 2007, 9:43 pm
  • FenSheaParkway,
    After I posted it, I realized the report mentioned nothing about “jumping and throwing needlessly”.

    QuoSF September 4, 2007, 9:43 pm
  • I really wish I had the time to look this up, but it seems like everytime the Yankees win, the Sox win, everytime the Yankees lose the Sox lose. It really is crazy. So much for “So Your Telling Me There’s a Chance” idea.

    John - YF (Trisk) September 4, 2007, 9:43 pm
  • Two speedy outfielders with no power…
    That’s the Yankee talk. You don’t have to hit homeruns to win games. In fact, you could win and not hit any at all. Guys who make contact, take bases, and play good defense are just as, if not more, important. Ask the Angels. One real power threat on the entire team.
    Plus, it’s likely the Red Sox have A-Rod hitting behind Ortiz next year.. how much power do they need? :)

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:44 pm
  • Trisk, you’re absolutely right. I see that the other Yankee team showed up tonight.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:44 pm
  • Magic number: 17.
    For the record, the Sox can give up most anything for Miguel Cabrera EXCEPT Buchholz and Ellsbury and I’d be happy. I don’t think the Marlins would take anything less than one of those, however.
    I do think a Crisp/Lowrie combo could get a good bat in here. Not sure who, but the Sox simply HAVE to be active on the trade market this winter, considering how close this team is to being a purely dominant force. They’ve got the pitching and most of the hitting.

    Paul SF September 4, 2007, 9:46 pm
  • I really wish I had the time to look this up, but it seems like everytime the Yankees win, the Sox win, everytime the Yankees lose the Sox lose.
    Mmm, I think there have been several times when this hasn’t happened. ;-)

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:47 pm
  • I didn’t come here to start an argument RAW, the Yankee thread was empty. But you really have a short memory. That team with only 2 “impressive” pitchers just took 3 games from you. Our rotation is what it is, not much you can do about it now. Moose will take Rocket’s start in KC and with some luck he’s back next week. As for Hughes and Kennedy, they are babies, let’s let them pitch awhile before we write them off as “Unimpressive”

    John - YF (Trisk) September 4, 2007, 9:47 pm
  • Lowrie is a good player. He makes some boneheaded moves, but his arm is fine. He’s every bit as strong as Lugo with the throw, and his range is not great, but yet, I said that.
    I also said that next year is too soon, but I don’t think that they’ll trade him at all.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:47 pm
  • I try not to get swept up into the excitement over rookies, knowing that it’s really hard to predict future performance from their first months up… But Ellsbury is really hard not to like.
    OTOH, the idea that anyone can fill Manny’s shoes is just silly. Few if any hitters have been as consistently and massively productive in the past decade. The Sox should keep him through his contract at minimum.

    Hudson September 4, 2007, 9:47 pm
  • Or they could just sign A-Rod for ridiculous amounts of money. Is $30 million too much to significantly upgrade a team that could be good enough to win the World Series this year? Nahhh.
    Though I’d much rather root for Lowell.

    Paul SF September 4, 2007, 9:48 pm
  • Quo.
    The SOX do seem to have a quandry on their hands, now don’t they. They have, potentially, 3 very effective leadoff men in Crisp, Lugo and Allsbury. Two excellent CF’ers in Crisp and Ell’s, and, if Manny goes (which I do not think he will) a future OF seriously lacking power. Even if some stud 1st or 3rd baseman is signed…
    oh my, this is not our fathers Red Sox organization!

    BostonRAW September 4, 2007, 9:49 pm
  • Beckett really manned up, btw. He seemed cooked in the sixth, then managed to last eight and really save the bullpen. Bravo!

    Paul SF September 4, 2007, 9:49 pm
  • Manny’s dropped something like 260 OPS points against righties this year. He has a bad back. He’s about to be in his late thirties. He’s got one year left and is about as tradeable as ever based on the limited burden that a team would have to take on. Let’s see what happens for the rest of the season before making any real judgments about moving him, but the stars are aligning for him to be moved, as long as he approves (10/5 and all that). I have no position on whether it’s a good move, you can’t make that assessment in a vacuum, which is what we are in right now.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:50 pm
  • Two of those three pitched their best games in months, Trisk…to be fair. Also, the Sox were way out of character as well.
    But alas, it is what it is. That’s why they play 162 instead of 10: mistakes rarely happen, and the most consistent team normally wins out in the end.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:50 pm
  • “Moose will take Rocket’s start in KC ”
    Magic number at 16
    Sorry :)

    BostonRAW September 4, 2007, 9:51 pm
  • Yeah Brad but it took 6 innings for them to show. They were making Horacio Ramirez look like Sandy Koufax for a while there.
    Again Wang gets out of inning after inning with the groundball. I am glad I am wrong but this kid is as lucky as they come.

    John - YF (Trisk) September 4, 2007, 9:52 pm
  • Quo – Oh you know those scouts; always trying to put a positive spin on a player’s foibles…
    I wanted to make an impassioned defense of Pythagoras but after a quick check – yeah, there are some outliers this year. Seven teams at least 5 games away from their expected wins at this point (not including tonight’s games):
    Boston, NYY, ChiSox, Seattle, St. Louis, Arizona, San Francisco
    And Arizona is a ludicrous 11 games off of Expected.

    FenSheaParkway September 4, 2007, 9:52 pm
  • Easy decision, Paul, if A-Rod’s available. Sign him. Trade Manny. Move Crisp to left.
    You will have six guys at minimum next year, I believe, in Youk, Pedroia, Buchholz, Lester, Delcarmen, Papelbon. Thirty mill for the best player ever still makes the average salary for those seven players about what an upper third payroll club pays their average guy.

    SF September 4, 2007, 9:53 pm
  • Allsbury?
    Who dat?

    BostonRAW September 4, 2007, 9:53 pm
  • I agree, SF. That, and I’m tired of all the drama that he comes with. It was fine when he was jacking 35HR year in and out, killing lefties, and hitting about .400 RISP, but now that all that has slowed, I say move him while you can.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:55 pm
  • Abslolutely, SF. I’m right on board with that one. A ton of speed surrounding those two will equal a ton of runs.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 9:57 pm
  • Paul and SF, I think A-Rod’s asking price starts at over $32 million per season. Reason being his current contract pays him $27 million for 2008-2010 AND there is another opt out clause where the team would have to add $5 million to his salary OR he can opt out again. So I would venture to say Boras starts at $32+.

    John - YF (Trisk) September 4, 2007, 9:58 pm
  • Brad, I wasn’t being a d*ck, I was just retaliating.

    John - YF (Trisk) September 4, 2007, 10:00 pm
  • dude, I know that. I wasn’t insinuating you were one, buddy.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 10:04 pm
  • Ellsbury is most valuable as trade bait. He can bring more than Crisp due to age and contract. The Sox need to make moves to shore up the offense, Manny will be replaced either this winter or next, and they need to do something at either 1st or 3rd. They need to replace Manny with someone who can come close to duplicating his numbers. Packaging the young talent is the way to do it. The Red Sox are not going to be a team developing young talent in order to field a young inexpensive team. They need to develop young talent to trade for top players in their prime, like they did with Beckett.

    Tom sf September 4, 2007, 10:04 pm
  • Good Good, I honestly didn’t come in here to cause trouble, just lonely over in the Yankee thread. Amazing what a difference a week makes. Too bad it’s not Sox/Yankees everyday! (At least for the sake of the site!)

    John - YF (Trisk) September 4, 2007, 10:06 pm
  • Not to mention both teams going 81-81 and missing the playoffs entirely, probably losing a significant amount of players to fights, 100MPH tosses at the head, and coahes getting tossed around the infield at times. ha.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 10:14 pm
  • HA.
    verbatim, Beckett in his postgame interview just said the follwing when asked about how good Papelbon is…
    “Who in the world would have thought a dumb little redneck from Mississippi could be that good…he’s the best I’ve ever seen”
    Ha.
    My response to this: Who calls Papelbon “little”? I mean, the rest of it is the old “if the shoe fits” thing, but I hardly think many people can call him little.

    Brad September 4, 2007, 10:21 pm
  • there’s really no dilemma for the red sox here. Ellsbury is crisp 2.0, he’s, younger, cheaper, faster a better offensive player and with a year at fenway it’s not hard to see him being nearly as good a center fielder. I think that crisp will be traded, he’s pretty inexpensive and a gold glove level center fielder and a fairly decent offensive player who could be much better in the NL he should be fairly easy to move to a NL contender.

    Bob September 4, 2007, 10:57 pm
  • I really have to wonder when people complain about “all the drama” Manny brings.
    Seriously now: Has anyone ever heard any teammate of Manny Ramirez say he was a distraction?
    Has any teammate of his ever said he was anything but one of the hardest workers and most disciplined guys out there, taking endless batting practice?
    Has anyone who actually had to play the game with Ramirez ever wished someone else was coming to the plate in a clutch situation?
    This is all *media* b.s., people, used to sell papers. Yeah, we all know that Manny has an unusual personality. But it is a personality which seems to only endear himself to his teammates, and which certainly has not prevented him from being one of the greatest hitters any of us will ever see swing the bat.
    And if anyone thinks A-Rod brings *less* drama along with him, you’re seriously deluding yourselves…
    And even if he drops off a bit in his late 30s, he will remain head and shoulders above 95% of the hitters in the majors.
    I hope Manny finishes his career in Boston.

    Hudson September 4, 2007, 11:25 pm
  • Thanks, Hudson. I totally agree.
    And also, further than that, I would prefer Theo and Red Sox Nation show more loyalty to players who have meant so much to the organization, in one regard or another. The new guys too, for that matter. There’s nothing wrong with showing loyalty. It does not have to be Jeter @ $23m Loyalty but some loyalty would be nice.
    Give Manny the opportunity to sign. If, and only if, he pulls a Damon, let him go. But give him that chance.
    If JD is worth $15m so is Manny.

    BostonRAW September 5, 2007, 12:40 am
  • …actually guys, there were reports at the end of last year that maybe the sox mgmt had finally started being more open about being weary of manny’s eccentricities and annual sabbaticals, and that even teammates were growing tired of it…if i remember right, we even had an extensive discussion about it here…now, take it with a grain of salt because i don’t believe there were any direct quotes [most players won’t throw a teammate under a bus (sox are best at protecting each other), and management has always been careful with how they treated manny, aside from the annual waiver/trade gymnastics], but there was apparently enough circumstancial evidence [i.e. grumbling] to support the rumors…i don’t believe in rumors mind you, like the one that came out early about the sox having the highest bid for dice-k…oh wait, oops…
    if you need some proof, check this out courtesy of the onion:
    http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/manny_ramirez_asks_red_sox

    dc September 5, 2007, 8:08 am
  • Is anyone seriously thinking the Sox will sign Manny AND A-Rod? A third of the teams in baseball don’t pay what they’re going to ask for.

    thomyf September 5, 2007, 9:03 am
  • Lady friend sitting next to me on the couch last night, turns and says…
    “Is that Clement? What the hell is he doing there?”
    Solid W for the books.

    LocklandSF September 5, 2007, 9:17 am

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