That sound you hear is Red Sox Nation breathing a collective sigh of relief. Julian Tavarez isn’t going anywhere!
Well, that was fun while it lasted. Woulda been cool to see Helton chewing up pitchers for the next coupla years. It’ll be even cooler to see Craig Hansen closing games in a BoSox uniform the next coupla years.
Stupid Rockies…you only offer $36.6MM AND you insist on a good prospect?
Oh well…when the Yanks are in 2nd place come the break, maybe they’ll jump? Heh…
“It’ll be even cooler to see Craig Hansen closing games in a BOSOX uniform the next coupla years.”
Is that the same Craig Hansen that had the 6.63 ERA and the 1.61 WHIP in 2006?
That boy need some work in the minors.
Yeah, a half should do him. But hey, you never know. Greg Madduz had a pretty wretched opening stint in the majors too. *shrug*
Hey speaking of young pitchers trying to get a foothold in the Majors, I like this line out of Baseball Prospectus:
“The once-fallow Bronx farm is primed to churn out some outstanding arms to supplement the Bombers.”
…looks like uncle theo read my posts about the yanks grabbing tex next year while he was trying to figure out how to get helton to hit more homers in fenway…i shoulda kept my big mouth shut…oh well, glad to see the sox kept tavarez and delcarmen…the joke’s on you again uncle theo for chokin’…
“When you are taking about a player of Todd Helton’s abilities, you need to get someone back who will be an impact player, and it didn’t work out.”
In other words, the Sox organization was greedy and failed to get the job done. History of violence. Long live the Evil Empire Redux!
Thank god. Now I don’t have to hear about the Godfather of Sabermetrics for a little while
Keep this in mind, dc. The Tigers inquired about a Bonderman for Teixeira swap. I’m pretty sure it was the Rangers who put the brakes on in that potential deal. Bonderman = proven, cost-controlled, 24-year old starting pitcher. The closest comparable pitcher the Yankees have is Phillip Hughes (though if Wang doesn’t regress, I suppose he could be a main piece in a package), 21, unproven, and cost-controlled. Hughes’s ceiling is higher, but expect the asking price to be about that high. A package of “potential” (Clippard, Sanchez, etc.) doesn’t seem like what the Rangers would be looking for in return.
And man. Never knew you were related to Theo.
Not surprising. Theo wanted to see just how desperate the Rockies were, and they weren’t desperate enough.
quo…i didn’t mean a trade…tex is a free agent after ’07…the yanks signed minky for 1 year…my hunch that they’re setting up for a run at tex…i was hoping that the sox would get helton so that they’d be out of the running…now it looks like they may compete, with the lowell contract expiring and youk’s logical move to 3rd…the good news is that they’ll just make some noise, drive up the price, then choke at the last minute…either way, the yanks end up with tex…yay…
Umm…I’m pretty sure Tex is a FA after 08. At least, that’s what mlb4u has, and though the contract it details in his information ends after 07, that’ll only be 5 years of service time; he broke in in 2003, so he’s got 4 right now.
Pretty sure d1 is right here, dc, which is why I figured it would have to be a trade. And I guarantee the Rangers aren’t going to accept a pittance or package for him, as I said. “Best” FA 1B after 2007? Sean Casey. Enjoy.
Yep, 2007’s 1B and 3B FA class is truly awful. When Casey and Lowell are the best options…both our teams could be left in a bit of a bind, especially if A-Rod opts out. I suppose Carlos Guillen could play 1st, or one of the OF’rs available, but that’d hardly be ideal. Who knows, though…maybe Juan Miranda or Chad Spann will surprise this season…
I would actually try to sign Guillen as a 3B. He’s got the arm. His defensive shortcomings seem a lot like Lugo’s: Great range, strong arm, not as accurate an arm as you’d like. I’d say 1B too, but I have some doubts about Youk moving back to the more demanding position after two full years at 1B.
QuoSF, Yankees would never trade Wang, Hughes, or Sanchez for him considering he is a free agent soon. Do you understand how valuable young pitching talent is? The Yankees have a good amount of it now. I bet with that Helton trade, Cashman could have gotten something done so I have to agree with dc here, SF, Boston choked.
Also, SF, you seem to be “pretty sure” about a lot of things. Yet know nothing. If he became a free agent in 2008, Yankees could negotiate a deal. If Texas tried to unload him in 2007, the Yankees have the prospects to do so. Boston, however, does not. And even with the right prospects, they can’t negotiate worth a damn. That’s why they ran their head into the wall and screamed 50.1 million! Before they realized what they did. Long live the Evil Empire Redux!
I do understand how valuable young pitching talent is. So do the Rangers. They wouldn’t accept Bonderman for Teixeira, so that’s where the bidding would start. I’m perfectly aware that the Yankees could attempt to negotiate a deal, which is why I laid out what the Rangers terms would likely be.
Boston doesn’t have the prospects? Bucholz. Bowden. Hansen. E-Mart. Ellsbury. Place. I don’t want to see any of these guys go, but they are in the system. Can’t negotiate worth a damn? The Rockies were driving the negotiations. The Red Sox don’t need Helton. A high-OBP first baseman who plays good D? We already have one of those. The Rox needed to make this deal a lot more than the Sox did. Facts, Whatever(#2). They can help.
…he signed a ml contract in 8/01…for 02-05 [$9.5m total]…he “re-signed” in 1/06 for 06 [$6.4m] and 07 [$9m], with some incentives…’07 would actually be his 5th full season with the rangers, which is his 6th full year under a ml contract…technicality, but you got me on that detail [service years v. contract years]…so we wait a year, same result…
quo…the rocks may have proposed the deal for helton, but the socks were very interested or it wouldn’t have gone on as long and get as close as it did…only theo’s unwillingness to give up anything other than overpriced spare parts killed the deal in the end…he misjudged the rocks desperation…
…it seems unlikely that arod would opt out after 07 since he stands to make $27m per year for 07-10…who else would be willing to pay him that much…the red sox wouldn’t bite 2 years ago even with texas picking up a big share of that tab…would they now be willing to pick up the whole thing?…he’d really have to want out of ny to blow $108m plus incentives for 4 years…
dc, testing the Rox desperation was exactly what Theo was doing. He was under no pressure to make the deal. The onus was on the Rockies to make an offer “he couldn’t refuse”. They didn’t, so it fell apart. It really is that simple.
…actually arod would be walking away from 3 years at $27m per, but you get the point…
…my mistake, i thought the sox actually were intrigued by the idea of getting helton…it’s the cost that wasn’t intriguing…there was a lot of space and discussion wasted discussing hypothetical lineups and the disposition of lowell and others…so you’re back to where you were [which incidentally, wasn’t so bad]…
So if Theo had ‘gotten the deal done’ at a $10.7MM AAV while giving up Craig Hansen and/or MDC, you’d be praising this deal for Boston, dc? Don’t think so. Tell me…did you happen to read what the Rockies’ owner was saying publicly as this went on? I believe it was something along the lines of, “We want 1 or 2 impact players, and we won’t deal him for anything less. No, Tavarez and Lowell don’t count. We want more.” So unless Theo worked some sort of jedi mind trick to convince him that Manny Delcarmen was an impact player worthy of $45MM coming over with Helton, getting this trade done would have cost a lot. As in, way too much. Period.
That came off a little angry…basically my point is that this was probably never a priority in the Boston FO, just a chance to see how dumb/desperate O’Dowd and company are. No choke…not even any real evidence to suggest a choke, since most reports had the Rox as the aggressors and the owner made fairly asinine demands publicly the entire time. (Which also pissed off the Boston FO, apparently)
I doubt A-Rod would opt out, I was mostly just effing around. The money matter pans out like this: If he stays on 2008, 2009, and 2010, he gets $81MM before testing the market at age 35. The issue is whether the $81MM + his age 35 deal would be greater than whatever he could get in a long term deal if he left at age 32. Personally, I wouldn’t be that shocked to see someone guarantee him $21-24MM per through his age 38 season. And the bigger issue, of course, is whether he really wants out of NY or not. In any case…depending on the size and length of whatever long-term contract he could sign after 2007, he might make more money that way then he would if he waited until age 35. But it’d be tough.
PS: Another interesting bit…if anyone in baseball makes more money then him in 2008 or 2009, he gets the option to void his contract again. According to mlb4u, at least. That probably won’t happen, I just thought it was a weird clause.
Kind of a Boras thing, overall. I’m sure, at the table, Boras was making the point that statistically, no player could top what A-Rod brings to the table/field (somewhat right about this) so no one should be able to top his pay. Maybe Boras foresaw the salary explosion. Had someone like Pujols, Cabrera, Santana, etc. come into free agency this off-season, how much would they have topped Soriano’s deal by? Could’ve happened, anyway.
Santana comes in after 08. Who knows what kind of money he’ll get if he wins another Cy…or even if he doesn’t. He’s saying he wants to stay in Minny, but unless he really loves Minnesota…it’s really hard to picture them hanging onto him.
Cashman could have gotten something done so I have to agree with dc here, SF, Boston choked.
Also, SF, you seem to be “pretty sure” about a lot of things. Yet know nothing.
Uh, I haven’t posted in this thread yet. Can you please try to use the correct handles when insulting people?
Montfort is blowing smoke. There’s no way a deal for Helton is dead, with the Sox or with anyone. The Rockies want to save money. This is negotiation. Montfort loudly shouts he’s willing to walk away, and good for him – if he’s unhappy with what the Sox have offered then he should do exactly that. However, this is pretty transparent in it’s motive: he wants the Sox to offer more (or he wants everyone in the league to know he’s not, at the moment, ready to deal Helton for filler), while PRing himself as a defender of a very popular Rockies player.
Let’s put it this way: it very much sounds like if the Sox called back today and offered Hansen in the deal, it would be done. The Rockies are “stuck” with Helton at $90.1M. That’s a gargantuan number for a player like Helton, trending like he is. And everyone knows it. Remember what was said right before A-Rod got moved to the Yankees? Something about him being the Captain, about being with the Rangers for a long time?
This doesn’t mean that Helton getting traded is a foregone conclusion. But he’s still on the market, you can be damn sure of that.
…actually, i would be praising theo…i said as much on the “rocky mountain hire” thread to brad when i told him: “…if theo pulls this off the way it’s rumored, i will give him a virtual genuflect for out-borasing boras, and for this latest deal…he will truly be the best gm in my mind…and no, i’m not kidding…for a change, there’s no punch line for this one…”
now, by “the way it’s rumored” i meant in response to the prior comment by ettet who said the denver post was reporting that the sox wanted helton for lowell, tavarez, and the roks would pay $40m of his remaining salary…later on in a comment i said theo should just throw in delcarmen already, and run like hell before the roks realize they got fleeced…it was basic supply and demand…theo is happy with his current 1b and 3b and figured if he could sip some champagne for the same price as a beer, what the heck…i don’t blame him…we all know the yanks are the only team that overpays…
…i agree with you sf, i don’t think the helton deal is over with yet…the roks seem to eager to dump his salary…they may be hoping someone else comes out to give the sox some competition, so well see, but it’s probably not over…
…as for arod, like i said earlier, i don’t see him going anywhere…$27m is a lot of money, even in this market…if he suddenly returns to his old form this season and participates on a ws winner, it would increase his market value, even as the market itself would be limited to a handful of teams…no telling what the yanks reaction might be to that…they might just let him walk and use the money elsewhere…
Maybe A-Rod opts out and signs with Boston for the reduced price he agreed to in 2003. Problem solved! Hehe
“However, one source with knowledge of the negotiations told the Boston Globe that it would not be surprising to see them rekindled in spring training.”
There is hope for the Yankees!
Key sentence, if anyone’s still reading down this far, from the Herald story:
“The Sox apparently only would have parted with a prospect if the Rockies were willing to pay approximately half or more of the remaining money owed to Helton. It is believed Colorado agreed to subsidize no more than $27.5-28 million of Helton’s albatross contract.”
In that case, good for Theo.
Good for Theo? How about “Theo didn’t even have to think before hanging up the phone”. Not a tough decision, Paul, at those dollars. Let’s not give him too much credit.
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