The Jeter Meter: Oh Captain, My Captain Edition

You think we’re nuts for Captain Perfect? We barely qualify as fans compared to the stalkers who populate this site. Yikes. Anyway, their hearts are in the right place. And on this day, when a certain someone has declared himself unofficial Yankee helmsman, we though it a good time to remind ourselves—and you, Dear Readers—why Our Captain is truly Our Captain. Like, forever.

BA: .312
OBP: .392
OPS: .845
OPS last 7 days: 1.093
R: 82
Arm Candy: Back with Vanessa (according to THTJB)

40 comments… add one
  • And to think someone on this site recently came up with a list of 7 shortstops he’d rather have on his team than our great captain.

    Nick August 8, 2005, 1:37 pm
  • On the other hand, Nick, if Jeter was on the team I rooted for, then my team would be 3.5 back, with a rotation that’s about as deep as Jessica Simpson.

    SF August 8, 2005, 2:02 pm
  • SF, are you sharing that absinthe with YF?

    Nick August 8, 2005, 2:08 pm
  • Too subtle, I guess.

    SF August 8, 2005, 2:46 pm
  • Please limn the thought process that led to such a subtle retort. If you write the ironic parts in blue that’d help me.

    Nick August 8, 2005, 2:57 pm
  • i’ll comment when i’m done projectile vomiting.

    beth August 8, 2005, 4:04 pm
  • Beth, you seem to have a lot of body ailments whenever you post.
    Just kidding Beth.

    Brad-SF August 8, 2005, 10:16 pm
  • it’s all the jeter talk. excuse me–blleeaaaggghhhrrrhhhhggg

    beth August 8, 2005, 10:26 pm
  • Plus with Jeter, you get the following this year :
    – a measley .260 batting average away from home.
    – another measley .255 with runners in scoring position – no matter where it is!
    – someone ,who with 75 srikeouts this year is rapidly approaching a new record for himself with K’s.
    – someone batting just about .250 after the seventh inning of games, and .228 with runners in position after the seventh inning. Remind me again – with bad pitching and suspect bullpens, when is it that “clutch” a player needs to come through?
    – Against his biggest rival, Boston, the Captain has struggled this year, batting only .229, all the while the opposing Captain strides in at .375 and .488 with runners in scoring position agains the Yanks – go figure.
    Not only is the Red Sox captain a better one now (batting from both sides, with more power, and keeping a entire rotation in line), but the leadoff hitter is better as well. But, before all the frequenters of this site pound me with stats from Kevin Millar and Mark Bellhorn, remember I’m not the one who boasted a stat line a mere seven days old.

    Brad-SF August 9, 2005, 8:59 am
  • One thing you are right about, however – “yikes” is absolutely correct. How many of those people do you think the Captain has restraining orders against right now?

    Brad-SF August 9, 2005, 9:22 am
  • According to the fine statheads at Baseball Prospectus our Captain’s VORP (Value Over Replacement Player) is higher than Damon’s, Manny’s and V-Tek’s. Now, I don’t know how the hell VORP is measured but it seems to be a ranking of overall value for players (e.g. Derek Lee is #1 and Pujols is #2 on their list). In any case, I trust the people at BP’s valuation of players over Brad’s Sox-slanted system.
    Here’s the link to the rankings:
    Derek is aging well. What a career he’s had! I can hear Beth’s renewed vomiting from here.

    Nick August 9, 2005, 10:25 am
  • Nick — VORP is value over replacement player at the same position. So while VORP is useful for saying “he’s one of the best shortstops in baseball”, it’s wrong to say he’s better than a CF, RF, or C based on VORP alone.
    In any case, if you want to use VORP, there are 2 AL shortstops (3 if you count A-Rod) higher than Jeter.

    Earl August 9, 2005, 12:09 pm
  • Brad: Grow up. One of the true and fundamental joys of baseball, and certainly of being a Yankee fan, is watching the career arc of a great player. Derek Jeter is, to any intelligent baseball fan–not to mention his peers and just about every reputable journalist and sabermetric analyst–a great player. The best at his position in the league? Maybe not. Does he have the most upside? No. The most potent player on his own team? Not even close. Is his compensation fair? Who knows and who cares?

    YF August 9, 2005, 3:04 pm
  • Derek Jeter = OFF LIMITS. Derek not such a good fielder? Too bad: OFF LIMITS. Derek not so good in the late innings? Too bad: OFF LIMITS. Derek a cavalier swordsman who treats women like chattel? Too bad: OFF LIMITS. Doesn’t everyone know that? You mess with Derek, you mess with YF. And you mess with YF, you’ve got one angry, 5’2, 130lb soaking wet, but incredibly mature person to deal with. So write carefully. And grow up.

    SF August 9, 2005, 4:29 pm
  • The only thing that’s OFF LIMITS is the constant, idiotic harping from Red Sox fans. Not a clutch hitter? Aside from the question as to whether such a thing even exists, let’s note his career .302/.375/.434 World Series line. As for 2-out and man-on hitting and vs-the-Sox, we’re talking small sample size. Fielding? Even BP credits him as a plus fielder. What he does in his private life? SF, like so many in RSN, is happy to make things personal for no reason other than his own sorry venality. “Derek Jeter treats women like chattel.” This based on SF’s occassional readings of Page Six. Or pehaps he’s seen something first hand on a misogynistic tryst of his own deep into the night at Bungalow 8? The gutter is a sad place to be. Let’s not go there.

    YF August 9, 2005, 5:26 pm
  • I think you’re joking, YF, but if you aren’t, then please, take a time out. Go on a long weekend with the Missus to Hedonism 2 or something. Get out. Enjoy life. Have a Mr. Softee and a Papaya Dog. Seriously. If you missed the point of that last comment (130 punds soaking wet? Dead giveaway, dude. YF knows I know he’s a 230 pound Giambi-esque bruiser), then my bad, but really, can you please lighten up, just a little? I know it’s Derek, and I know you’re just a tiny bit sensitive about people knocking your crush, but come on. Telling Brad to “grow up”!? At THIS blog? Puh-LEEZE!

    SF August 9, 2005, 5:51 pm
  • wow. I have never slammed jeter in any sense. I just put the stats out there as an argument to yours. Way to go overboard YF. Just like your numbers don’t lie about his worth, neither do those I put up.

    Brad-SF August 9, 2005, 7:23 pm
  • Now, Brad, let’s be honest here. In your own way, you did slam Jeter. My question is: so what? So you cited some unflattering numbers, just as YF cited some great ones. That only gives us a better picture of what kind of player Jeter is. A great one, but not without his flaws. And those flaws are worth discussing, just as Manny’s are, or Sheff’s, or anyone else on our two crazy teams. I am not sure why YF is so bent out of shape, and I am not sure why you would disavow “slamming” Jeter. To this date, I think the only person who has done that is Jessica Alba.

    SF August 9, 2005, 8:25 pm
  • hahah.

    Brad-SF August 9, 2005, 10:06 pm
  • SF, YF’s numbers more correctly reflect the greatness that has been Jeter’s career. Brad’s comments, in no way, give us a better picture of the kind of player that Jeter is.
    As the ever reliable VORP rankings point out, Derek is the 14th most valuable offensive player in all of MLB; that is, because he plays SS, his peculiar offensive prowess (unusual for his position) is so rare that his loss to injury would be harder to replace than such Sox heroes as V-Tek, Manny and Damon.
    Sox fans surely would prefer to vomit, moralize about the man’s sex life, exaggerate flaws in the great captain’s game, or discuss definitions of VORP, rather than face the truly impressive accomplishments of Derek Jeter, who Yank fans will always love until he hangs them up.

    Nick August 10, 2005, 1:22 am
  • Ah, sorry, Nick. I didn’t realize calling Jeter a “great” player was insufficient. My bad.
    As for the “moralizing”, you need to go to the same vacation spot as YF and try to relocate your sense of humor.

    SF August 10, 2005, 7:27 am
  • You’re right Nick. I totally agree that it’s harder to replace the third or fourth best SS in the league (who is still batting .250 when able to drive in a run or two) than it is to replace the best catcher in baseball, easily the best leadoff hitter in baseball – and the guy currently leading the league in BA, and the World Series MVP, and possibly this year’s MVP as well.
    What are you talking about, Nick? If Jeter went out, the Yanks would put A-Rod at SS (which would be a huge improvement) and never miss a beat. In fact. When he hurt his shoulder and missed all that time, remind me agian what their record was when he was out. I’m pretty sure it was the best in baseball at the time. Damon has replaced Jeter as the best leadoff hitter between the two teeams , and Varitek (who cant be replaced by anyone in baseball) and Manny can be replaced by MAYBE one other player in the league.

    Brad-SF August 10, 2005, 8:01 am
  • Brad: if Jeter got hurt for any length of time, I (and 99% of Sox fans) would be happy. Not at Jeter being hurt, but at his not being in the lineup. There’s a legitimate debate in here somewhere about Jeter’s skills and his flaws (the skills far outweigh the flaws, that should be pretty damn obvious). Making a case that Jeter has flaws is different than saying that the Yankees wouldn’t miss him (they would, dearly) or that he’s not that great (he is). Even our partisan nature should allow us to admit that Jetes is a hell of a ballplayer. You are digging yourself a big hole, one that gets bigger with every post you make. And this is coming from a sympathetic character, who appreciates Jeter but thinks that the hagiography that Yankees fans perpetuate is numbing. Their reflexive response to your initial posts should be evidence enough that they have merits. After all, why would YF fly off the handle (he of the self-proclaimed “lifetime of success and inner peace”) if you didn’t hit a nerve? There’s no need for you to sully your own argument with the hyperbole in which Yankees fans traffic.

    SF August 10, 2005, 8:57 am
  • No one’s denying Jeter has flaws, it’s only that Brad’s enumeration of Jeter’s “measely” stat lines in certain situations should not be taken seriously as they wildly diverge from his stat line this year, are based on dubious notions of clutch/unclutch, and rely on small sample size. YF, on the other hand, provided only one dubious stat line (Jeter’s OPS in his last 7 days) One of the more striking ironies is Brad’s choice to point out the difference between Varitek and Jeter against each other’s respective teams. In 2004, the Sox Captain (who I recall had a brilliant season that year overall) struggled against the Bombers, batting an anemic .169. His performance against the Yanks of course tells you nothing about his overall work.
    Brad, the idea behind VORP (and Earl, please correct me if I’m wrong) is to measure a player’s offensive value relative to a replacement-level player at his position. The drop off from Manny to Jay Payton (I’m assuming he’s a replacement-level outfielder) is less than the drop-off from Jeter to an Alex Cora. In the open market, based on this season, Jeter’s offense at his position would be more valuable than the three Sox players I mentioned.
    SF, you said there was a legitimate debate somewhere in this thread about Jeter’s flaws versus his skills. So far, the only flaws that have been pointed out have been by Brad, who provided easily refuted stats to back his idea that Jeter just isn’t that valuable or elite a player, or as good as Varitek. Especially funny was when Brad chirped about the merits of Varitek being able to keep that entire rotation in line. Is this the rotation with a near 4.5 ERA. Good job, Jason!
    Here’s the one flaw in Jeter’s game that I would point out: his range to his left is limited, and, often, it seems that balls get through the middle that other SS’s would get. There’s his flaw.
    SF, again if you would make the text flash or blue, I’d understand better when you were joking.

    Nick August 10, 2005, 10:23 am
  • I am done with this discussion – it’s a dead ender at this point. It’s simply not enough for Yankees fans for a Sox fan to agree with them, and say that Jeter is “great” and vital to his team’s success, an indispensable player. It doesn’t matter that the indispensable player discussed strikes out too much, or has improved from pitiful to barely average in the field, or that he hits worse in the late innings, or that he’s imperfectly great. Nope, that stuff can’t be discussed, lest it offend hypersensitive Yankees fans.
    I’ll just make sure to keep this thread in mind when us Sox fans are accused of being blindly partisan, dogmatic, and ridiculously emotional, and that we lack “inner peace” or the objective ability to praise and/or criticize our own players. We’re the nutjobs, apparently.

    SF August 10, 2005, 10:39 am
  • Apparently you are; Nick’s reasoned argument basically refutes your entire post. It’s almost as if you didn’t read it, SF. We obviously see Jeter’s flaws, and we don’t deny them. But Sox fans seem incapable of the reasonable discussion of his flaws/attributes that the rest of the baseball universe seems to engage. There’s no containing the rage. Our squib about his very lovely girlfriend is somehow transformed into a suggestion that he treats women as livestock.
    It’s not us; it’s you.

    YF August 10, 2005, 4:35 pm
  • jeter is king. My bad

    Brad-SF August 10, 2005, 7:42 pm
  • Nevermind that. I happen to think that they guy is an average short stop now, however great he was five or six years ago. Is Jeter a plus to have in the lineup – obviously. Does Jeter warrant the praise he gets from Yank fans – obviously. Does Jeter warrant the heckles that he gets from the rest of the league – obviously. The “measly” stat lines that I posted are true facts. They can’t be overlooked this year. You just can’t throw out a stat line and not expect Jeter critics to refute them with a few of his bad ones.
    All players have their flaws, and I’m truly sorry if you don’t like to see them in print.
    Nick. I’ll take your Varitek comment with a grain of salt, since i know the numbers to be true, but I stand by my comment – who could do a better job? He’s the best catcher in the league, and can’t be replaced by anyone.

    Brad-SF August 10, 2005, 7:51 pm
  • “refutes your entire post”
    Wait. So he’s not “great”, “vital”, or “indispensable”? Okay, fine. You said it, not me.

    SF August 10, 2005, 10:40 pm
  • Jason Varitek has struck out 82 times, 7 more times than Derek Jeter. He is batting a weak .238 with men in scoring position and 2 out. With the bases loaded he is batting .250. He’s batting a mere .269 at his hitter friendly home park. Way to treat the fans to a show, Jason! Against the dazzling pitching staff of the D-Rays, he is batting .258. The Mariner pitching staff gives him even greater trouble, as he has hit at a .133 clip this season. The Cleveland pitching staff have his number as well: .143 against the Indians.
    I think SF will agree that these stats provide all with a better understanding of the Sox Captain’s flaws as a hitter.

    Nick August 11, 2005, 12:00 am
  • Derek. Average. Exactly. With a .390 OBP.

    YF August 11, 2005, 12:40 am
  • Yes, some of them do, Nick. Not too hard to admit.
    Some of the numbers you cite are samples that are too small (and you know that, I am pretty sure, and that’s why you cited them, to antagonize only). But yes, there are always numbers that help articulate a player’s abilities and/or shortcomings. Some of those that Brad cited fit in to that, some don’t. Your grandstanding (just like Brad’s, which I pretty harshly criticized) doesn’t help your case at all.
    It’s not that painful to acknowledge this. Try it sometime. Regardless of the love affair. You too, YF.

    SF August 11, 2005, 6:46 am
  • WOW. I simply gave another impression of Jeter that YF seemingly forgot to include in his stat analysis of his Captain.
    Other than comparing what the respective Captains have done against each other this year, I never boasted any of Jason’s stats in my argument, as I’m well aware of where Jason can be taken advantage of. I know Varitek’s shortcomings better than most, but all I said was he would be harder to replace for the Red Sox than would be Jeter for the Yanks. A-Rod moves to shortstop and the Yanks have an immediate upgrade at the position is all I was saying.
    In the past on this blog, I’ve praised him for his leadership and skill at his position, and given him credit for helping to change the way teams looked at potential shorstops. But, even though I feel this way, I still have the mental capacity to know that a full stat line is very often not as flattering as a pieced one – as you showed us with the Varitek statline, but then again, I never boasted of Varitek’s stats this year. I simply said he could not be replaced at his position. Just like A-Rod at shortstop, there is nobody in the league that is better than him there.
    At least now I know that when it comes to Jeter, all that is not in praise should just be left out of the discussion due to the immediate and painful retalliation of YF (grow up?).

    Brad-SF August 11, 2005, 8:08 am
  • SF, I guess when I said that Jeter has limited range to his left I wasn’t acknowledging a flaw in his game. Sorry, I think outside of Jeter’s increased k total, nothing Brad provided in his pieced stat lines was meaningful in terms of giving us a better understanding of Jeter’s performance this year. FWIW, Jeter’s increase in k’s correlates to an increase in walks, which probably means he’s looking at more pitches a la Bellhorn.
    Again, I am not arguing that there are not numbers out there that give us a better understanding of Jeter’s limits as a player, I’m just arguing that Brad did not cite those numbers.

    Nick August 11, 2005, 10:47 am
  • Exactly, Nick, because for all of his posturing about presenting some kind of honest, clear-eyed appraisal of Jeter as a player, that’s obviously not what Brad and SF are interested in. They’re in this to disparage (and okay, this is Yanksfan-vs-Soxfan), to make an argument for the sake of argument, never mind that it’s irrelevant. And the Yanks-can-spare-Jeter-more-than-the-Sox-can-spare-Tek is utter bullshit. First of all, Sox fans need to come to terms with the fact that A-Rod is now a third baseman. But if, for the moronic sake of argument, he were to move back to short, his replacement would be Felix Escalona. Jeter to Escalona vs. Varitek to Mirabelli/Shopach? Note that Varitek is only playing 4/5 days as it is. Either way it sucks. Which way sucks worse? Well, let’s hope we never find out. And by we I mean Yankee fans.

    YF August 11, 2005, 2:42 pm
  • They’re in this to disparage
    Not to put too uncouth a point on it, but shut the f**k up, PLEASE. In this thread I have called Jeter “vital”, “indispensable”, and “great”, and stated what an enormous loss it would be if he were out of the Yankees lineup. Call that “disparagement”, hell, call that whatever the f**k you want, YF, but you just sound like a bitter, hypersensitive whiner when you type things like that.

    SF August 11, 2005, 5:57 pm
  • Yeah. We’re bitter. Because our spelling is only a slight improvement on are old pal Hi-Thum (BTW: wherefore art thou, HT?). Though we were not the ones to call The Captain a misogynistic chattle wrangler. All we did was post an innocent little item noting Our Hero’s fine season. And all we got was [CENSORED].

    YF August 11, 2005, 8:39 pm
  • Excuse me. Our. Excuse OUR grammar, SF.

    YF August 11, 2005, 8:39 pm
  • PS: The Captain tonight, thus far: 3-4 with a pair of doubles and the go-ahead homer in the eighth. Yeah, we’ll take that.

    YF August 11, 2005, 10:24 pm
  • Man, did I ever see that coming.

    Brad-SF August 12, 2005, 10:52 am

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