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15 comments… add one
  • If we’re talking MVP debate here. How about we change the 2 main players to Jeter-Manny?

    Nick-YF July 29, 2006, 12:10 pm
  • Are you gonna start that again? lol
    It just seems that our longest and most vitriolic threads tend to be about those two players and the three letters at the end. That’s all I’m saying…

    Ozzie July 29, 2006, 12:13 pm
  • Wow, Ozzie came back. Not sure how that happened… Or why he’s taking ownership of my post ;-)

    Paul SF July 29, 2006, 12:14 pm
  • MVPs:
    Papi: 0
    ARod: 2
    ARod: 0
    I am thinking it is safe money that every player would give up any and all of their MVPs for one ring.
    While talking about MVPs, I think ARod was robbed of the MVP in 2002 as well, but Tejada got it because he played on a much better team and Texas stunk. Should an MVP player be able to come from a last place team? Subtract player : Still Last Place. Hmm.

    attackgerbil July 29, 2006, 12:44 pm
  • I bet Ozzie posted here by mistake…he was actually trying to send a hate email to Mariotti. Been drinking again, Oz?

    yankeemonkey July 29, 2006, 12:46 pm
  • Gerb, there’s prescedent: Andre Dawson. I don’t have a problem with it. Especially if the last-place candidate has numbers far and above everyone else’s.
    One more thing, I continue to be amazed at Papi’s ascention into the MLB marketing stratosphere. I saw an MLB ad on TV yesterday in which he was featured Jeter. Not that I think Jeter minds sharing the spotlight with Papi as the face of MLB. Pretty good for a waiver wire claim.

    I'm Bill McNeal July 29, 2006, 12:53 pm
  • A huge aspect of Papi’s meteoric rise has to be because of the market he plays in. Granted, he’s become a terrific hitter, etc. etc. since he left Minnesota and he’s got a great personality, but do you think he’d be so marketable if he’d had the same sort of success with the Twins? Consider the fantastic seasons Mauer and Morneau are having, yet they don’t get nearly as much attention.

    yankeemonkey July 29, 2006, 12:59 pm
  • That’s a given, YM.
    And it raises another interesting thought: should MLB do more to market key players in small-market cities instead of sticking with the guys from the best-known franchises? What about Dontrelle Willis? I do believe MLB, with great help from ESPN (gack!) leans too heavily on Boston-NY. Even Chicago and LA seem to get shorted. I mean, it seems like you never hear about Vlad and Konerko.
    Is this where you thought this thread would end up, Paul?

    I'm Bill McNeal July 29, 2006, 1:07 pm
  • Absolutely. How often do you see the Marlins/Brewers/Twins on nationally televised games, whether it be FOX or ESPN?
    And right on cue, the FOX pre-game is doing a feature on Ortiz…at least it’s semi-topical since it’s a FOX game but still, no love for Vladi even.

    yankeemonkey July 29, 2006, 1:16 pm
  • If the Yankees had signed Vlad and not Sheff, I think Vlad would be one of the three biggest MLB stars today. It’s odd how LA gets shortchanged in baseball when it is so glamorous for NBA players.

    Sam July 29, 2006, 2:18 pm
  • Ichiro gets some marketing, but maybe that is only on the west coast. I have no idea why there isn’t more weight thrown behind Vlad, but then again I don’t recall Glaus getting much play in the media after the Angels won the series. Anaheim must have trouble with marketing. Look at the whole naming fiasco; they still don’t have a clear identity.
    A playe has to reach iconic status before MLB makes them an icon it seems. Chicken/egg. Ortiz is there. Jeter is there. Ichiro is there. Pujols is getting there.
    The markets have everything to do with it.
    Boston and New York are _intense_ baseball cities. There’s no where near the kind of fever and direct attention about baseball on west of St. Louis, which is a huge baseball town. Chicago? The ChiSox franchise wasn’t taken seriously by anyone not living in the south side prior to the second half of last season, and their most visible player isn’t a player, it’s Ozzie. And the Cubs, well, it’s the Cubs. Texas has fielded decent baseball teams but it’s far and away a football state. Griffey still gets attention in Cincy, and Barry gets the wrong kind of attention in San Fran.
    Take 10 “baseball fans” not from Minneapolis/St. Paul and ask them to name five players of the Twins roster.
    It’s a vicious cycle.

    attackgerbil July 29, 2006, 2:22 pm
  • I think Vlad is a much bigger name than you’re giving him. Remember, Pepsi used Vlad and A Rod for their commercial about big power hitters. Out west here Vlad is a pretty important name for baseball folks. Basketball is just in a different league of celebrity than baseball.
    The only person that comes close is Jeter and that’s do in no small part to his social life.

    walein July 29, 2006, 2:22 pm
  • Papi is quite possibly the greatest clutch hitter in baseball history. The fact is; Papi can play a passable 1st base and he might not be a gold glover but he’s scooped a fair number of errant throws in the dirt, including one by ARod in the All Star game. He also made a sweet play to throw out Suppan off third in the 04 series. Another fact is; the Red Sox have an On Base machine with a way better than average glove in Youklis at first. So Papi is the DH, but in N.L. parks you can bet your ass Ortiz plays first base. If ARod is higher in the MVP voting this year over Papi you have to know the thing is fixed… Especially this year, at least Papi is a consistant first baseman when he plays the position. I mean really, where’s the advantage in the field now that ERod can’t seem to play his position without booting the ball or throwing it away on a fairly regular basis?
    The Fact is; if the Red Sox don’t have David Ortiz they lose to the Yankees in a sweep in 2004. Hell, they probably don’t even make the playoffs, THAT is what it means to be MVP, it’s just not good numbers.
    Seriously folks, David Ortiz has had game winning hits in from the 9th inning on something on the order of TWENTY times in the last three years. If that isn’t MOST valuable then I dodn’t know what else qualifies… besides leading the league in HR and RBI, I mean.

    Brian July 29, 2006, 9:03 pm
  • Red Sox fan that I am, I agree that David Ortiz deserves to be MVP, if any DH (well, him or Travis Hafner, and only one plays for a contender) at all. That being said, “passable” defense at first base can mean a lot of things. I’m pretty certain if Papi played 1B everyday I would be about as comfortable as Yankee fans when Giambi is there. That being said, here are who I think will be the main MVP candidates come voting time,
    David Ortiz
    Mariano Rivera
    Jermaine Dye (IFF the White Sox make the playoffs)
    Manny Ramirez
    Derek Jeter (and if he wins, let’s all agree that post-win, Tim McCarver will be permanently muzzled after his ten minutes of gushing)
    Vladmir Guerrero (same stipulation as Dye)
    The truly unfortunate (if you can call it that) thing is that the Detroit Tigers don’t really have any MVP candidates. This does work in the Tigers favor however, as no one is sitting around waiting for David Ortiz to smack a homer or for Jeter to double into the gap in right-center. (I’m looking at you, Trot, Tek, A-Rod)
    As a side note, and this is probably the wrong place, will someone please put the A’s away for good this season. Based on .avg and run production, A-Gon would bat no lower than 5th or 6th in that lineup. Which is as much praise for A-Gon being a more than decent #9 hitter as it is an indictment of every non-pitcher the A’s have.

    Quo July 30, 2006, 12:59 am
  • Okay, so I can believe a few of those guys deserve the MVP, but seriously, if you are going to include Mariano Rivera, a reliever in the mix, let’s do a little side by side comparison
    Mariano Rivera 2006
    Gms 46,In 55.1, H 44, R 13, HR 1, BB 9, SO 41, W 4, L 5, SV 25, WHIP 0.96, BAA .222 ERA 1.95
    Jonathan Papelbon 2006
    Gms 46, In 53, H 27, R 3, HR 2, BB 9, SO 54, W 2 L 1, SV 29, WHIP 0.68, BAA .147 ERA 0.51
    Now, don’t get me wrong, Mariano is the true prototype of the intimidating closer… who doesn’t seem to have an off year AND he’s having a typical stellar year for the Yankees… But Papelbon’s numbers to this same point are better than any relievers numbers EVER, all time! …And he’s a rookie, he’s still a KID, for heaven sake. His ERA is about one quarter of Mo’s his BAA is 75 percentage points lower than Rivera’s, and he’s given up almost 40 percent fewer hits, Mariano has given up over 4 times as many runs! By almost any objective measure there is, Papelbon’s the guy that you want on the hill with the game on the line. I might dare say that without Papelbon the Red Sox are trailing the Yankees and probably in a battle with the Jays for second. Perhaps even trailing the Jays… All I know is that no one has ever had what Jonathan Papelbon is to the Red Sox… and remember he’s doing this as an emergency closer, he was slated to be a starter this year.

    Brian July 30, 2006, 1:45 pm

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