Post any Manny-related news here, discuss the cost/benefit of obtaining lefty journeymen for HoF sluggers here.
by SF on July 30, 2008 at 10:15 pm in
General Red Sox · 98 comments
I think I’d rather have Hermida, and the Sox’ prospects better not be Lowrie or Bowden. I wonder if Lowrie is no longer considered a “prospect”, since he’s on the ML roster. Anyone know anything about Grabow?
You’d rather have Hermida than Bay? I know the former is 5 years younger than Bay, but still I think Bay is an elite player.
Atheose July 30, 2008 at 10:18 pm
John Grabow: http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/grabojo02.shtml
LIfetime ERA+ of 99, though it’s 132 this year. Pretty high WHIP for a reliever.
Atheose July 30, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Will Carroll (he of “Santana to the Red Sox in minutes” fame, so use that salt shaker) says:
The Commissioner’s Office has been informed of a deal involving the Pirates, Red Sox, and Marlins. The Commissioner has to sign off on any deal involving cash considerations of more than a million dollars and there was clearly going to be cash involved in any deal. There’s also some formality about Manny Ramirez waiving his 10-5 rights and no trade clause and I’ll admit not understanding the technicalities.
So here’s what Pee Wee Herman would call the “big but.” The teams, I am told, have not agreed on the specific prospects to be included in the deal. It’s expected that in addition to the principals, the Red Sox would get John Grabow and give up two prospects while the Marlins would get one prospect and give up two. There’s still a lot of haggling but my scribbling notes make it look like the structure of the deal is:
Marlins get Manny Ramirez, one prospect (BOS), and cash (likely Ramirez’s remaining salary)
Pirates get Jeremy Hermida and three prospects (two FLO, one BOS)
Red Sox get Jason Bay and John Grabow
There is still potential for this to fall apart over the prospects, though things appear closer now than ever before.
Paul SF July 30, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Ath, Im not sure what your definition of an elite player is but for me Bay is not one. He is a very good OF, above average no doubt, but elite is pushing it…
Sam-YF July 30, 2008 at 10:26 pm
I don’t understand: how would the Sox make a deal that involved unknown prospects (unless there is a list of such prospects to choose from and that list has been agreed upon) and agree to a deal before those prospects were known?
Secondly, why do the Sox have to give up two prospects, pay Manny’s salary, and trade Manny, just to get back a guy with one year left on his contract and a shitty middle reliever? I know that I’ve been saying “cents on the dollar”, but at some point you just have to say “no thanks”. Is getting rid of Manny worth that price? If it is, then the prospects really suck, and don’t involve anyone named Bard, Lowrie, Bowden, Masterson, Buchholz, Kalish.
SF July 30, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Oops, didn’t realize that had been reported in the gamer.
I’d rather Bay for this year, and I’m not sure if I’d rather Bay or Hermida for long term. Bay’s more of a known quantity.
People keep acting like Bay would be a huge downgrade from Manny, to which I reply: How? Same offense at this point (Bay has more win shares and more runs created than Manny this season with a similar OPS+ and virtually identical counting stats), while Bay is younger, a better fielder and a better baserunner.
Paul SF July 30, 2008 at 10:27 pm
The fans are standing up to him! The first baseman is standing up to him! The traveling secretary is standing up to him! And by golly, if I could get down there, I’d be standing up to him!
Why on earth did you have to go and invoke Slap Shot. Now I’m going to be doing this all night.
attackgerbil July 30, 2008 at 10:29 pm
It’s definitely worth a top post. I just read it at the same time I put up the gamer so I let it alone.
attackgerbil July 30, 2008 at 10:30 pm
I think it will include Bard — and I’m OK with that. The other guys we should not have to give up if we’re eating Manny’s salary. Also, other reports have Grabow going to FLA. I think the Sox will do Mayhay for Moss, which is a better deal than including Grabow for a prospect…
But replacing Manny with Bay ($7.5M next season) is a plus for this season and next. I don’t see a problem giving up a prospect or two for that, as long as it’s not one of the Top 5….
Paul SF July 30, 2008 at 10:39 pm
the fact that any sox prospects are involved makes this a bad deal. theo needs to give cincinnati one more call.
sf rod July 30, 2008 at 10:52 pm
why rod?…depending on the combination of other variables, i.e. players, money, a prospect might be necessary…of course, it doesn’t need to be a top level prospect…other teams are assessing the sox desire/need to unburden themselves of manny…i’d say it’s telling that they might be willing to kick in some of his salary…
dc July 30, 2008 at 11:03 pm
“might be willing to kick in some of his salary”? dc, I’m pretty all the reports have always had the Sox paying all or most his salary. I don’t see what’s telling about that, though — how else are they supposed get back fair value on a two-month rental? If they get someone younger (ie, not Pat Burrell), then the only way to make it work is to pay.
stuck working July 30, 2008 at 11:07 pm
“…I’m pretty all the reports have always had the Sox paying all or most his salary. I don’t see what’s telling about that, though …”
uh, true about kicking in the salary not being a secret, but [and i'm not an insider] it appears that the sox are too eager to get rid of him, including a public rebuke about his disrespect of the FO, and the now famous release of his mri’s…that’s what’s telling, and driving down his value, to their detriment…not that the sox are botching this, but they may be letting their frustration get the best of them…keeping manny doesn’t seem to be an option when it gets to this point, and their trading partners know it…
dc July 30, 2008 at 11:17 pm
keeping manny doesn’t seem to be an option when it gets to this point, and their trading partners know it
Keep in mind all of this has happened before with Manny, so other teams should know that Boston is willing to keep Manny if they don’t get fair value.
Atheose July 30, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Another NO WAY prospect is Argenis Diaz, the REAL SS of the future.
I'mBillMcNeal July 30, 2008 at 11:24 pm
but ath, what about all the “straw that broke the camel’s back” talk and such?…i’m not trying to be a jerk, but it seems like a more serious fracture this time…
dc July 30, 2008 at 11:24 pm
no offense bill, but you guys have way too many “no way” prospects…the last were hanley and annibel…oops
dc July 30, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Doing a quick scan of some Yankees sites, it’s awfully disheartening how excited they all are about this. Ugh.
stuck working July 30, 2008 at 11:27 pm
I’m ready to just …
… No, no, no. Don’t let the beer talk. Remember my very reasonable “just calm down” post from earlier today, the one before I started drinking. …
This is so hard. Jason Bay. I really, really love shiny, new things. It’s the worst thing about ebay. … I surprised Theo hasn’t posted Manny on ebay.
I'mBillMcNeal July 30, 2008 at 11:27 pm
“no offense bill, but you guys have way too many “no way” prospects…the last were hanley and annibel…oops”
go back to your Old Style, dc. Leave me in my mental disarray.
I'mBillMcNeal July 30, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Aside from BP, what other websites are people looking at for news? It’s sort of silly, since I imagine things would be announced tomorrow at this point, but I’m curious where people are looking for updates, rumors, etc.
stuck working July 30, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Stepping away from the emotion for a minute …
… This is what I love about baseball. Put this in the dead of winter, during the NFL playoffs, in the middle of new accusations of something unsavory against The Bill, this would be the best hot stove season EVER.
I'mBillMcNeal July 30, 2008 at 11:32 pm
This is so hard. Jason Bay. I really, really love shiny, new things.
Well said! Bay is going to love The Monster.
Atheose July 30, 2008 at 11:33 pm
> but they may be letting their frustration get the best of them
Maybe. I think it is more like there are “big” moves being made by other teams and writers are getting the best of us, trying to get us to ride the “WHAT WILL THE SOX DO??” camel, and that is getting the “best” of the fans. There’s a shitstorm flying around because of the Teix trade, IRod trade, etal, but the Sox don’t need to make any move based on that noise.
attackgerbil July 30, 2008 at 11:35 pm
this would be the best hot stove season EVER.
What makes this Manny deal exciting is that the clock is ticking. Theo has 16 hours to get it done, which isn’t much time considering all the squabbling over prospects that will likely happen.
Atheose July 30, 2008 at 11:35 pm
You know, I’ve had a few beers, we just got swept by the OC, and in embarrassingly futile fashion, yet I’m in an oddly good mood. Maybe it’s because I can see an end to this thing.
I'mBillMcNeal July 30, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Was just thinking that this reminds me of ’04, but that’s not true because none of us saw that coming. All of the nervous anticipation came AFTER the Nomie deal because we weren’t sure if it was OK to be optimistic.
I'mBillMcNeal July 30, 2008 at 11:38 pm
“….what other websites are people looking at for news?”
mlbtraderumors.com seems to be a reliable and well informed source.
sf rod July 30, 2008 at 11:40 pm
my “…Old Style…”…?
huh?…what was my old style bill?
by the way, despite the fact that this is a negative story, sort of, for now, i agree with you that this is “hot stove” worthy…
and, as far as other teams being able to “read” the need to rid the sox of manny, you need to hope they don’t watch espn…
dc July 30, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Was joking, dc. I mean Old Style beer.
I'mBillMcNeal July 30, 2008 at 11:44 pm
I was pretending to be defensive.
I'mBillMcNeal July 30, 2008 at 11:45 pm
This deal had better be done by the time I wake up in 5.5 hours. I can’t handle hitting “refresh” on the trade rumor webpage every 10 seconds while I’m at work.
Atheose July 30, 2008 at 11:47 pm
sf rod- I assume by calling mlbtraderumors.com “reliable,” you mean that they can be reliably counted on to purvey almost anything anyone tells them? I check it out, but they have contradictory stuff up there all the time.
stuck working July 30, 2008 at 11:48 pm
SW, MLBTradeRumors.com, Rosenthal on FoxNews.com, Heyman on SI.com, the ESPN Trade Deadline blog, Sons of Sam Horn, the Globe’s Extra Bases blog, the Herald’s Clubhouse Insider and Bradford Files blogs, the ProJo.com Sox blog, plus the staff-writer blogs for the Miami Herald and Pittsburgh-area newspapers.
How’s that for starters?
Paul SF July 30, 2008 at 11:49 pm
MLBTradeRumors is a reliable collector of information reported by other sources. It’s a good summary of what’s being reported about any particular player or team. You have to judge the credibility of the original sources for yourself…
Paul SF July 30, 2008 at 11:52 pm
The last two posts on mlbtraderumors.com, the most recent at 11:35 EDT:
“10:33pm: The Palm Beach Post says a tentative agreement has been reached, despite Gammons’ comments. Here’s the deal:
Marlins get: Manny Ramirez, cash, prospect from Red Sox
Red Sox get: Jason Bay, John Grabow
Pirates get: Ryan Tucker, Jeremy Hermida, one prospect from Red Sox
10:22pm: More from Gammons. The deal is definitely not done – the Bucs aren’t yet satisfied with the players they’d get from Boston for Bay. Nothing has been done in regards to Manny’s no-trade or paperwork to the Commissioner’s Office.
Gammons expects this to go right down to the wire.”
Too much. Two prospects, AND Manny AND we’re gonna pay his salary? Too much. Unless we can trade Wily Mo again.
I'mBillMcNeal July 30, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Wow, Paul, maybe I’ll let you take care of the internet scouring and I’ll just await your updates here! Sounds more efficient that way. Now if only i could convince my itchy fingers to stop hitting F5 all the time…
stuck working July 30, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Palm Beach Post reporting the Marlins have reached a “tentative agreement” with the Red Sox and Pirates:
MIAMI GARDENS — The Marlins have reached a tentative agreement to acquire Manny Ramirez from Boston as part of a three-team deal that will send Jeremy Hermida and three Florida prospects to Pittsburgh, an American League source said Wednesday night.
Officials with the Marlins and Red Sox did not confirm the deal but the source said a tentative agreement was reached about 10 p.m. Wednesday.
The Marlins will get Ramirez for Hermida, right-hander Ryan Tucker and two other prospects, with those four players being flipped to Pittsburgh for outfielder Jason Bay and left-hander John Grabow.
The Red Sox will send the Marlins enough cash to cover the remainder of Ramirez contract, as well as an unnamed prospect.
Pittsburgh gets Hermida and two prospects – two from Florida and one from Boston. One of the Marlins’ prospects is believed to be Tucker. …
The Red Sox were seeking a big right-handed hitter in return to protect David Ortiz in the lineup, something the Marlins could not offer. The trade with Pittsburgh met that need by bringing them Bay.
Paul SF July 30, 2008 at 11:56 pm
I disagree with Bill, depending on the prospects. If they’re low-level guys, this is a good deal for the Sox. You replace Manny’s production on offense and improve it on defense and on the bases, you get a cheap Bay for another year on top of that. The Sox have money to burn so paying Manny’s salary doesn’t mean anything to me. I worry about who the prospects are. Bard and a low-level guy, or a middle-range guy? Do it. Bard and Kalish or Bowden and anybody, stay away…
Paul SF July 30, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Fair enough, Paul. Bard and Carter, yeah, I could live with that.
I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2008 at 12:00 am
The PBP story isn’t very well written, but it sounds like the Sox may be giving up only one prospect — ya know, if their version is in any way correct.
Paul SF July 31, 2008 at 12:00 am
Manny straight up for Favre?
That’s a cost savings.
I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2008 at 12:02 am
“…Old Style beer…”
mmmm, beer, are you buying bill?…i’ll buy the next round…
dc July 31, 2008 at 12:03 am
So Manny is barely jogging to first now, saying the team that payed him deep into 9-figures does not deserve him, and holding up signs saying he is being traded for Brett Favre.
I say that as long as he doesn’t hit anyone, this is all just Manny being Manny. It’s not a problem. It’s all about his child-like love for the game. Take up his option now.
And the fact that he is quitting, taking plays and arguably entire games off for selfish reasons is also a completely out of the blue development. He never did anything like that until these past two weeks. He must have been abducted by aliens or something. Who could have ever seen anything like this coming…
IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008 at 12:05 am
Jon Heyman is MUCH more optimistic than the ESPN guys:
The Marlins and Pirates are both said to be haggling with the Red Sox over a prospect or two in a potential three-team blockbuster that would send embattled superstar Manny Ramirez to Florida in what could rank as the surprise blockbuster of the century. But while there’s still some back and forth going on, people involved in the talks are still expressing optimism that the deal will eventually get done and that the $20 million player will go to the $22 million team.
The Red Sox have talked to other teams about Ramirez, but their talks appear to be centered on the Marlins now. People involved in the discussions say several combinations of players and teams are being discussed, but in just about all of them Ramirez would wind up with the Marlins. No deal has been agreed to yet, and it’s still possible Ramirez could remain with the Red Sox, though it’s now believed that the deal will be consummated close to Thursday’s 4 p.m. ET non-waiver trade deadline.
Paul SF July 31, 2008 at 12:09 am
I’m buying, dc, but I ain’t buying Old Style. I might live in Chicago, but I don’t drink that crap.
I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2008 at 12:09 am
Well Im heading to bed guys. I’m calling this move a success–Jason Bay is good times.
Cheers, to the rest of the season and the future ahead!
Atheose July 31, 2008 at 12:11 am
Horse, please don’t make fun. This is OUR tragedy.
I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2008 at 12:11 am
Also, Heyman seems to indicate the Sox will be sending Manny to Florida one of two ways, either by trading him for Hermida and two prospects, or in the three-way with Pittsburgh. Holds out the possibility that the Sox might drop Pittsburgh out if they keep dickering over prospects.
“There’s a good chance this will get done. The tentative framework appears to be in place” — Marlins beat writer on XM Radio just now.
Paul SF July 31, 2008 at 12:12 am
And the Cubs won. Crap.
I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2008 at 12:13 am
Finally, Heyman confirms Carroll’s assertion that the sides gave notice to Selig that they’re far enough along on the deal, so he’ll know it’s probably coming down the line for his approval tomorrow once everything’s in place.
Paul SF July 31, 2008 at 12:13 am
…this suddenly feels like a breakup, where at first the clean break feels great but then you start regretting it. I just can’t believe the Manny Era in Boston is about to be over.
I have a sick feeling in my stomach, even though I’ve been drooling over Jason Bay for the last 5 hours.
Atheose July 31, 2008 at 12:15 am
Favre has one SB ring, Manny has two WS rings, and Favre remains a bigger story. Effing Midwest bias.
I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2008 at 12:17 am
Bay wears No. 38.
This could be trouble.
I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2008 at 12:18 am
The Globe is getting beat all over the place on this story, essentially forced to react over and over to other outlets’ reports, this time responding to the PBP:
My sources tell me that is not true, a deal has not been struck, but the sides continue to talk. It may be getting close.
Paul SF July 31, 2008 at 12:19 am
Sorry IBM – that wasn’t meant for you, or even most sf regulars here.
Although I would love to see Manny hit one off Papelbon while playing for the Marlins and stand there to admire his handiwork while sfs around the world graciously take it as a beautifual example of his joie de vivre…or something.
OK, I’ll leave you to your tragedy now. It’s tough though. With a 4pm trade deadline tomorrow we may be able to break double digits in the number of Manny-dedicated threads we’ve got going here in less than a week.
IronHorse (yf) July 31, 2008 at 12:19 am
Do you really feel that Bay is a full replacement for Manny offensively? Seems to me, as a yankee fan Id rather be facing him in a key spot than Manny any day of the year. I realize he’s had a good season but he still remains an unknown quantity on the big stage…
Sam-YF July 31, 2008 at 12:21 am
Another problem. Can the RS really allow Manny to be replaced by a … gulp … Canadian?
However, the last Boston sports star to hail from British Columbia was CAM NEELY!
I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2008 at 12:21 am
Just teasing, horse. I’m punchy.
I realize he’s had a good season but he still remains an unknown quantity on the big stage…
I just don’t know that that’s quantifiable. Plus, Bay has had a great career (minus one injury-marred year), not just a good season. His peak won’t approach Manny’s peak, but we’re not aiming for that. We’re aiming for Manny’s decline phase. Bay is worth more than Ramirez right now…
Paul SF July 31, 2008 at 12:23 am
“…Bay is worth more than Ramirez right now…”
wow, never thought i’d hear a sox fan utter those words paul…get under that bus manny…
dc July 31, 2008 at 12:29 am
gloat away ih…you are right on in your assessment of this, and the sox fans/manny apologists don’t deserve any more of a break on this one than they’ve given us on our heartaches…this is fun, all in fun, of course…
dc July 31, 2008 at 12:32 am
Truth is truth. Is it throwing someone under the bus to say a superstar player isn’t worth as much as another superstar player?
Paul SF July 31, 2008 at 12:35 am
I dunno if I buy it Paul, i think this weakens the Sox. The only reason they are making this trade is because Manny is forcing their hand. They wouldnt be trading him otherwise. I admire your optimism though.
Sam-YF July 31, 2008 at 12:36 am
Rub it in now, but if Cash signs Manny next year, I don’t want to hear any whining.
I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2008 at 12:38 am
My life will be better if I never have to hear anyone use the phrase “thrown under the bus” every again. What is it with that phrase this year?
stuck working July 31, 2008 at 12:38 am
“…Is it throwing someone under the bus to say a superstar player isn’t worth as much as another superstar player?…”
it is if you want to get rid of your superstar and are bashing him in the process…not to say you are, but some folks are…how did it get to this point?…i’m frustrated for you…how did this manny thing get so out of hand?…
dc July 31, 2008 at 12:39 am
“…What is it with that phrase this year?…”
this year?….that phrase has been around since manny was a pup…where you been buddy?
dc July 31, 2008 at 12:43 am
That’s fine, Sam, but please show how replacing Ramirez with Bay weakens the Sox.
Here’s a list cribbed from SOSH:
Defense (Fielding Bible):
Baserunning (bases added/taken away):
Hitting (batting runs created from THT):
GPA (from Fangraphs):
GPA speaks to your question about hitting in the clutch, Sam. And according to the various runs created numbers, Bay has been worth about four to five wins more than Ramirez this season.
Paul SF July 31, 2008 at 12:44 am
I can bring myself to accept some version of this deal if Manny would basically refuse to play had the Sox picked up his option years, which is what I had basically been expecting them to do. That still means, in my mind, that this deal makes the Sox worse for 2008, but it could help going forward, particularly if the Sox spend the difference between Bay and Manny on positions of need.
And dc, do you see anyone here bashing Manny tonight? I don’t. Your touching concern and frustration for us are really not needed. I guarantee you, I don’t think I’ve ever experienced frustration on behalf of Yankee fans (well, maybe except when Mourneau won the MVP over Jeter — that was stupid).
stuck working July 31, 2008 at 12:45 am
…i’m frustrated for you…how did this manny thing get so out of hand?..
No joke, dc. It happened so fast, but his comments recently seem to make it clear the relationship between him and the Sox is over.
If he is traded, I’ll miss him. I’ll miss his presence, the production, the M-b-M moments. He’s an irreplaceable part of the two most successful Red Sox teams of my lifetime. But I can’t say his leaving would be bad for the Sox. Just like Nomar in 2004, it seems he’s become more of a liability than an asset, and it also seems this team needs SOMEthing to get it back into gear. At this point, with the Sox sliding into oblivion, what do they have to lose by acquiring a younger, cheaper better hitter with a better attitude?
Paul SF July 31, 2008 at 12:48 am
Paul, those are very impressive comps, but I think it’s hard to adjust them for life in the AL East — not to mention the experience of replacing a guy like Manny. It could be a rough transition. Or, who knows, the guy could flourish — maybe Manny’s teammates are really sick of him and his distractions, etc (though I generally think talk of team chemistry is bunk). I’m generally very sabrmetrically inclined, but there some other variables here.
Also, speaking as a fan, I’ll miss him. So many good times.
stuck working July 31, 2008 at 12:51 am
What Paul said.
I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2008 at 12:51 am
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette continues the optimistic approach:
Jason Bay might have played his final game for the Pirates.
Deep into last night, management was discussing a three-way trade with Boston and Florida, a multi-player transaction that would go like this: Bay, the two-time All-Star outfielder, and reliever John Grabow, would go to the Red Sox. The Pirates would get outfielder Jeremy Hermida and two prospects from the Marlins, as well as another from the Red Sox. Boston would send superstar outfielder Manny Ramirez, a prospect and cash to Florida. …
A source in New York with direct knowledge of the transaction last night described it as “a tentative deal,” but that might be too strong: For one, the prospects have not been fully determined, are the Pirates are thought to be dissatisfied with some portions of their pool. For another, Ramirez must waive his 10-and-5 rights where a player can veto any trade if he has played in the majors for 10 years, five with the same team. The latter had not happened as of late last night.
Paul SF July 31, 2008 at 12:54 am
I’m generally very sabrmetrically inclined, but there some other variables here.
This is where my trepidations lie, Sw. Hitters coming to the AL generally struggle because pitching is better here, and it’s harder in the AL East, never mind the pressure cooker, etc. I think Sam mentioned some of this, as well.
But you have to take a chance, I think. Those concerns do exist. As do the concerns about what happens if an unhappy Manny stays in Boston the next two months. It’s all a matter of weighing pros and cons, for which I’m glad I do not get paid the big bucks.
Paul SF July 31, 2008 at 12:57 am
Ok, I’m out for a while. Might be back before I call it a night. I imagine the teams have already done so…
Paul SF July 31, 2008 at 1:01 am
dc, Sam, horse, lemme ask you this: How are we SUPPOSED to feel? Manny likely on his way out the door, he’s doing so while making an ass of himself, we’re still in this pennant race …
I can’t just throw up my hands and say, “If Manny goes, I go.”
If that was OK, I’d have done that when the Red Sox traded Fred Lynn for a pair of panty hose.
It’s not like they’re trading Manny for NO REASON.
I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2008 at 1:02 am
I admit I have no statistical evidence to back up my assertion at this time. However, as SW said above I dont feel that stats accrued this season in the NL central are a fair comp for performance in the AL east. Do you believe the sox would be making this trade if everything was “normal” with Manny? Id so very much no.
We’ll see what happens I guess and how Bay performs with a B on his hat. Fenway will most certainly help him coming from PNC…
Sam-YF July 31, 2008 at 1:03 am
IBM. I dunno how you are supposed to feel. Its a tough call, Im not saying you should give up your place in the RSN. I cant imagine being happy about losing one of the top hitters of our generation in the middle of a pennant race. Ultimately, you will root for your team whoever the put out there on the field.
Sam-YF July 31, 2008 at 1:07 am
i should also add that manny absolutely kills yankee pitching, so my joy in a possible trade is helped by that.
Sam-YF July 31, 2008 at 1:10 am
There you go. We have to prepare to move on. That’s where I am, anyway. I’m also just about convinced that we’re THIS close from being out of this thing. Nothing is working right now. Nothing.
Good night, all.
Keep the stove warm.
I'mBillMcNeal July 31, 2008 at 1:12 am
Why did my posts disappear?
Mr. Incredible July 31, 2008 at 8:06 am
Any one know how to contact the authors of this blog? I submitted a few posts this morning and they’re gone now.
Mr. Incredible July 31, 2008 at 8:10 am
I dont feel that stats accrued this season in the NL central are a fair comp for performance in the AL east.
It’s not just this season, it’s his stats accrued over five full seasons. In four of those seasons he had an OPS+ of 132 or greater, and last year’s injury-riddled season is an anomaly.
Atheose July 31, 2008 at 8:11 am
Very good point about Manny killing the Yankees, Sam. I had forgotten about that.
Bah. I hate breakups.
Atheose July 31, 2008 at 8:13 am
Seems as if I’ve seen this type of writing somewhere from a poster…
Brad July 31, 2008 at 9:25 am
Yep, just ignore it Brad.
Less than 7 hours until the trade deadline, and I’m already getting antsy.
Atheose July 31, 2008 at 9:29 am
I’m briefly without internet at home until this evening. I’m pretty sure I’m glad about that. This is driving me nuts.
LocklandSF July 31, 2008 at 9:37 am
Everyone loves to balk at the idea that the Red Sox are going to be fine without Manny Ramirez, which is a load of crap.
There are plenty of other players, who given the chance to hit in that lineup, will prosper. You have to think that Bay is going to get better being surrounded by competent baseball players.
The Red Sox’ hands are tied, and Manny has been nothing short of a pain in the ass. DC can be a jerk and call it “throwing him under the bus” all he wants, be he (and every other fan) knows full well that Red Sox fans have excused more from this man than any other player EVER. We’re not throwing him under the bus, we’re pointing out how things got to this point.
Saying Bay is a great player, who should fit right in in LF is far from throwing Manny under the bus. Anyhting short of A-Rod wasn’t going to replace the production of ManRam, but how much will be said for actually getting him off the team and getting someone who gives a shit.
Bay is a great hitter. Manny is a better hitter. But, this is going to save the Red Sox a boat load of money in years to come, thus allowing them to spend it on top tier pitching – like Sheets.
That’s how you make up for the loss of Manny. You allow less runs, while putting up good numbers with his replacement.
New York has had some of the greatest hitters on this planet of late – what did it get them without the pitching?
Pitching wins, and if you can clear a 20spot off the chart when some good/great players are available to take the bump, and RID YOURSELF OF A FRONT OFFICE HEADACHE in the process – you do kartwheels through hoops of fire when it’s complete.
I pray that it is.
Griffey to the White Sox, and they’re shopping OCab.
Man, that would be freaking sweet.
Brad July 31, 2008 at 9:39 am
DC – not calling you a jerk (wrote that wrong), but meant to say it’s a jerk comment, and not true at all.
Brad July 31, 2008 at 9:40 am
Griffey to the White Sox? What’s sweet about that? I’m happy to see him playing for a team that doesn’t suck, but aside from that I don’t want the White Sox getting better.
Atheose July 31, 2008 at 9:46 am
Just read that too Brad. What are the Sox going to do with Griffey? Makes no sense. Seems like there could be another destination? Hmmmmm…
I cannot wait to hear talk radio here in NY if the Mets don’t get a corner OF’r. Mets fans are going to go bananas. I love this time of year.
John - YF July 31, 2008 at 9:47 am
I meant the fact that they’re shopping OCab. I agree that Griffey to the Sox is not at all “sweet”. ha.
Brad July 31, 2008 at 9:56 am
They are going to put him in CF – amazingly. So I guess we can just sit and wait for him to mess up that hammy once again. Podsednik is going to the bench, per EEI.
Brad July 31, 2008 at 9:57 am
Yeah Brad, we should reacquire him! If Lowrie is in the Manny trade and we get Jack Wilson back in return I’ll gladly get OCab.
Atheose July 31, 2008 at 10:07 am
I couldn’t agree more, Ath. I love Wilson’s defense, which is just awesome, but to turn and flip him for OCab (who should have been here the whole time), with some other prospects to Chi would make my day complete, and I’d come off the Theo ledge a bit. Get Bay and OCab in one day.
Man. Now I’m officially on the “unrealistic” level with the callers on EEI. ha.
Brad July 31, 2008 at 10:14 am
sorry brad and others…the “bus” comment was not intended for the fans…moreso your management…i don’t think we really know who fired the first shot in this battle…manny or the FO…i had suggested in one of the 18 threads about this topic that perhaps this was a parallel to the nomar and pedro departures [esp. nomar], both having their fair share of acrimony…i guess it’s a coincidence because manny and i don’t talk, but it seems he’s now saying the same thing…is he merely disgruntled, feeling unappreciated, or does he have a point?…i guess we’ll never know because the FO has been silent, while manny’s been doing all the talking…you can call my “bus” comment a “jerk” comment, but i’m not so sure it doesn’t have legs…i realize that the nomar and pedro departures were best for the sox, and ultimately history will probably say the same about manny leaving…there’s no delicate way to do what the sox have to do, and probably manny’s feelings couldn’t be spared, but i don’t know how it got to this point…what conversations with the FO had him feeling so unloved?…
as for my frustration for you guys, despite sw’s brushing it aside, it’s genuine…i do like seeing my sox fan friends twist in the wind a bit like i’ve had to so many times, but i can empathize with how crappy the past few days have been for you…
dc July 31, 2008 at 10:30 am
You overestimate my feelings right now. I love the idea of Manny not being on the Sox, and I couldn’t be happier if the Red Sox take the contents of his locker, put them in a box, and have the Boston Police escort him out of the stadium.
I’d rather lose than keep him, and while I think they’ll be a better team without him, I want him gone. Now. I have stood by this sentiment for some time now.
Brad July 31, 2008 at 10:47 am
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