Trouble in Gotham?

Si_bizarro_color

Holy Steinbrenners! Flash the Joba Signal!

78 comments… add one

  • That super-buff Ray is clearly in his home uniform, even though the setting is clearly Yankee Stadium.
    No respect for the canon, I tell you.

    Kazz May 22, 2008, 1:38 am
  • Its an awesoem cover though. Creative and fun. Props to SI.

    Dionysus May 22, 2008, 1:56 am
  • Me am worst player in baseball. Me play for worst team in baseball. Me come off abled list soon. Me am so in love with Old York, me take salary cut just to stay. Me lead team to last place!

    Biza-rrod May 22, 2008, 2:20 am
  • Great cover, indeed. Too bad that Ray is clearly juicing. And of course, Verdouchi takes pot shots at the Yanks rather than simply focus on the great things the Rays are doing. Such is life as the best organization in American sports history.
    The linked Newsday piece is total crap. Sure, it’s Hank’s fault that Joba will be made a starter! Yup, that’s why he was a starter in college, they drafted him as one, he was one almost all of last year, and he prepared as one over the winter and into the Spring. Meanwhile, Cashman asked him last night where his heart is, and he said he wanted a chance to start.
    For once, Abraham has it right. No matter what happens this year, the 2009 Yankees have, right now, one clear starter (Wang) with Mussina and Pettitte likely gone. Above all else this year, they need to prepare for the future now. And with 4 million tix already sold, it’s the perfect time for the youth movement. 2008 = out with the old. Call me very excited.

    A YF May 22, 2008, 8:05 am
  • Crawford angry, Crawford SMASH!
    It was a good sign to see the Yankees offense come alive last night. Jeter may be the captain, but the team needs ARod more than anyone right now. Well, except for good starting pitching.

    Atheose May 22, 2008, 8:22 am
  • Not into comic books, but that cover is pretty cool. Does that purple Superman have any signifance? (Not a Comic Book guy, so I ask)
    Joba to start…No comment.

    John - YF May 22, 2008, 8:28 am
  • “The way the plan is, I am going to continue to stay here, there is no better place than here to learn and take your licks and get better,” Chamberlain said.
    Hmmmm so I guess the Yankees are planning on either blowing out other teams, getting blown out or really short outings from their SP’s. Stretching him out is going to require any combination of those things to happen. It’s also going to require regularity. How do you just assume you can give the kid that? He has to be sent down at some point even if it’s for 2 weeks. They can deny it all they’d like, but honestly I don’t see it happening any other way.

    John - YF May 22, 2008, 8:47 am
  • What happened to the “No comment”? ;)
    “Hmmmm so I guess the Yankees are planning on either blowing out other teams, getting blown out or really short outings from their SP’s.”
    Hasn’t that been exactly what’s happened so far this year? And with regularity?

    A YF May 22, 2008, 8:54 am
  • That newsday article is rediculous. There is no evidence at all that hank has anything to do with this move or its timing. As far as I can tell this timing matches what the plan starting in feb would have been. The author is simply putting a spin on the story that doesn’t exist.

    sam-YF May 22, 2008, 9:17 am
  • A YF: I think you’re demonstrating why no one wants you around here anymore. You already account for 25 percent of the posts, you’ve made a crude joke regarding Verducci’s name, called another piece “crap,” and then taken an argumentative stance with John. It’s not so much that the points you’re making are invalid, but the way in which you present them here is entirely contrary to the kind of atmosphere we’re trying to create. I really don’t want this thread, on an important subject for the Yanks—Joba’s move to the rotation—to degenerate into (a) a long argument about your presence here or (b) your personal forum to air your opinions. It’s neither. So let me just say that you’ve now made your points, and it’s time to step back from this thread, and let the rest of the community participate.

    YF May 22, 2008, 9:26 am
  • The comments by Biza-rrod above really do sound like something that A-Rod would say in a Bizarro universe, where his slick media-conscious personality would be inverted.
    And according to scientists, parallel universes really do exist!
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/paralleluni.shtml

    SoxFan May 22, 2008, 9:37 am
  • The Rays in home uniforms and Yankees in road uniforms at Yankee Stadium is part of the Bizarro theme.

    Anonymous May 22, 2008, 9:46 am
  • I’m a lurker (and comic book guy) who just had to comment on this great cover. The artist is Mark Bagley, who recently finished a great run as a Spider-Man artist.
    To answer your question, John, the character is Bizarro Superman, an imperfect clone who is a backwards version of Supes (and speaks in the manner of Biza-rrod’s post).
    And Kazz, besides reversing the home and away unis, which might be intentional given the central idea, Jeter’s uni also includes his name on the back. I assume that’s to make it clear which player it is, but it’s obviously not correct. I’ll have to see if Paul Lukas picks up on this.
    Love the site, BTW. I always feel I want to participate, but never feel I have anything of value to add.

    RiceLynnEvans May 22, 2008, 9:46 am
  • I think they should have given the Superman character the head of Selig. Would have worked on many levels.
    John: he may have to go down for a bit, but I think they’ll be able to find the innings for him in the short term. It’s really not that hard a task, as last night demonstrated, and I don’t think it will require blow-outs. Down the line, a bit of creativity will also help. (IE: give him a 3 inning start.) The Yanks showed they were up to this kind of thinking when they held back IPK in KC with rain in the forecast. I’m not saying it’ll be easy. But this isn’t cold fusion either.

    YF May 22, 2008, 9:57 am
  • I liked the cover too – and was glad to see it. Now all we YF’s have to do is let the SI curse do its things, and we’ll be back on top in no time. Unless of course this curse ends up being a reverse anti-jinx, in tune with the Bizarro theme.
    -Mark

    Mark (YF) May 22, 2008, 10:01 am
  • YF – I am sure it can be done, but my main point is that this kid is the future of the franchise. Why not just send him down for 2 weeks (down the line, closer to him being ready) and let it be done the right way. Part of the process of building up his arm will be to get on a schedule and routine. Pitching every 5th day, having a throw day, side sessions, etc… Pitching out of the bullpen does not allow you that luxury. It’s more than just finding him the innings and building arm strength. It’s finding him those innings on a schedule. There has to be a balance between what’s best for the team and what’s best for Joba and to me it’s going to be a difficult task. Not impossible, but difficult.

    John - YF May 22, 2008, 10:05 am
  • Mark
    I assume if the curse worked like normal, it would make the Rays play badly, not make the Yankees play better. Anyway, the Rays aren’t in first place anyway.

    RiceLynnEvans May 22, 2008, 10:09 am
  • I agree 100% with John. Being a starting pitcher isn’t just throwing a lot of pitches: it’s getting into a routine. Each of the 4 days between starts is spent doing something very specific, and falling into that routine is just as important as stretching him out to the 100-pitch mark.
    Also, if anyone wants to laugh a little bit at Gagne this Dugout is really, REALLY funny:
    http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/05/12/the-dugout-eric-gagne-with-a-spoon/
    “I’m so bad at saving, I tried to use a coupon and it made my groceries more expensive. I tried to put a dollar into my savings account and somebody came out of the bank and tried to shoot me with a gun.”

    Atheose May 22, 2008, 10:12 am
  • Anyway, the Rays aren’t in first place anyway.
    They currently have the Wild Card though, which is what the Yankees are hoping for right now. I’m not saying the Sox are guaranteed to win the division and that the Yankees are not, but right now based on starting pitching the Yankees need to worry about whether they making the playoffs at all.

    Atheose May 22, 2008, 10:15 am
  • When Joba moves in to the rotation, who would you guys most like to see be the bride to Mo?
    If I were a Yankee fan, I would have mixed emotions about this. Yes, I would want to add a dominant starter. But, who gets you to Mo, and, more importantly, who replaces Mo in the very near future.
    It’s exciting as a baseball fan though, any time a great young pitcher comes up and gets a chance to make an impact in the rotation, it’s exciting, even if it’s for the Yankees.

    LocklandSF May 22, 2008, 10:22 am
  • Isn’t Joe Nathan’s contract up soon? They’ll never find someone as dominant as Mo, but they shouldn’t have trouble finding someone good.

    Atheose May 22, 2008, 10:25 am
  • To continue the Bizzaro theme, the Joba situation is (to me at least) not entirely unlike the discussion of how best use Papelbon that the Sox went through a couple of years ago.

    RiceLynnEvans May 22, 2008, 10:28 am
  • Lock, who bridges that gap is a HUGE concern. Problem being that right now we can’t get to that gap if we can’t get decent SP’ing. Before the stumbles of IPK and Hughes I was all for keeping Joba where he is, but now I think it’s the only choice we can make.
    I also would love the Yankees to look into signing Freddy Garcia. I know he is not a stud, but if healthy (June?) he could be a solid addition without having to give up a single player in return.

    John - YF May 22, 2008, 10:29 am
  • Sam-YF writes:
    // “There is no evidence at all that hank has anything to do with this move or its timing.” //
    Yep, no evidence, no evidence at all… Oh, except for Hank Steinbrenner demanding repeatedly that Joba start, despite Girardi and Cashman’s known reservations.

    Hudson May 22, 2008, 10:31 am
  • Sorry Hudson but I really dont see it like that. The plan all along has been to transition Joba to a starter at some point in July. All of the timelines I read at that time included him starting to stretch himself out in mid to late May.
    I realize that Hank was blowing hot air on this topic over the last week but I still firmly believe that the baseball people (Cashman, Girardi, etc) made this decision. Im not really sure if there were reservations on this subject as you suggest. Girardi alluded to the option of keeping Joba in the pen all year but again better long term strategy for his development argues against doing this due to the lack of innings he would get doing so.
    There are arguments on both sides as to if this is the correct choice or not but given the yankees SP issues so far this season, it seems like a baseball decision to me. I think that you give Hank WAY too much credit.

    Sam-YF May 22, 2008, 10:40 am
  • I agree with Sam, though Hank had a temper-tantrum about Joba not being in the rotation a month ago, the plan all along was to transition him there around this time. Hank’s tirade to the media has nothing to do with this happening right now.

    Atheose May 22, 2008, 11:05 am
  • It’s more fun to call out Hank though, that’s for sure

    LocklandSF May 22, 2008, 11:19 am
  • Intellectually, it’s impossible to justify not moving Joba to the rotation, and that has always been the intention. It’s 70 quality innings vs. 200 quality innings. The latter is clearly more valuable.
    We’ve been worrying over the “immanent demise” of Mo ever since we started this blog. But there’s no real sign of decline except age. If he goes down, the Yanks will have to deal with it, but down the line they have a ton of young hard throwers in the minors, and from this group they clearly will the set-up and potentiall closer roles as necessary. This is the logical way for the team to move forward.

    YF May 22, 2008, 11:22 am
  • Intellectually, it’s impossible to justify not moving Joba to the rotation, and that has always been the intention. It’s 70 quality innings vs. 200 quality innings. The latter is clearly more valuable.
    Again, this is very similar to an argument put forth in 06 and 07 regarding Papelbon.
    Which is not to say it’s wrong, by any means. Chamberlain, even more than Pap, should help the Yankees rotation immensely.
    But the similarity is a bit…bizzaro

    RiceLynnEvans May 22, 2008, 11:30 am
  • Rice: i hardly ever add any value to conversations and they put up with me for the most part…right SF??? ;)
    Welcome to the discussions Chowda-head!!!
    As for Joba…good. I always wanted him in the pen but our starters are attrocious. With his track record out of the pen, he should translate to an above-average starter this year. Keeping him in the majors, mowing down major league hitters can only keep his confidence up as he makes this transition. I don’t think it’s going to be a problem…the kid and eaten up every challenge so far, why not this?
    As for who will fill in, gotta let Veras, Ohlendorf or maybe one of the youngsters down in AAA get a shot…won’t matter much if we don’t have late leads that need protecting. That hasn’t happened much lately for sure…
    I could really dig a rotation next season of C.C., Wang, Joba, Hughes, Rasner/Karstens/IPK/some free agent…

    krueg May 22, 2008, 11:31 am
  • Thanks krueg. Now that I’ve finally gotten the nerve up to post, I hope to participate here somewhat regularly. This place has some of the best discussions involving our two teams I’ve found, at least most of the time.

    RiceLynnEvans May 22, 2008, 11:36 am
  • Welcome RLE.
    “70 quality innings vs. 200 quality innings”
    This is, of course, assuming the 200 innings ARE quality. I’m a little suspect of his pitching style/pitching arsenal working as a starter at the MLB level, but of course only time will tell.
    Odds are, he will be a very solid starter, but this is a huge transition.
    Exciting times, for the future of both teams.

    LocklandSF May 22, 2008, 11:45 am
  • Brad and I have some great discussions for sure…right buddy???

    krueg May 22, 2008, 11:48 am
  • Thanks Rice, we’re happy to have you! The gamers have been a little thin lately.
    The longer CC goes unsigned, the more I worry. With the Yankees set to lose Moose and Pettitte (most likely, anyways) that leaves Wang, Hughes, Joba, IPK and Rasner. Wang will probably pitch consistently the way he usually does, but the other 4? I’d be shitting my pants if I was a YF. Young talent is great, but not en masse. 3/5 of a rotation occupied by youngsters is risky; 4/5 is downright cheap.
    The more and more I look at that potential rotation, the more and more I see Sabathia becoming a Yankee.

    Atheose May 22, 2008, 11:49 am
  • To add on to my above post: I do think that Hughes will end up being a great starter, and think Joba will too once he transitions. But Rasner is likely to regress (according to all the scouts), and I’ve never seen much in IPK. 4/5 of a rotation made up of players who are giant question marks is not a good idea.

    Atheose May 22, 2008, 11:54 am
  • Thanks for the welcome Atheose, Lockland.
    I probably won’t be in a lot of gamers for the moment, I don’t have a TV in the same room as my computer. That’s gonna change sometime this summer though.
    Today being a day start, I will probably slip in a comment or two between working (which is what I’m doing now) as I listen to gameday audio.

    RiceLynnEvans May 22, 2008, 11:58 am
  • We’ve got a day game today? NICE! Didn’t check the schedule.
    It’s a slow-ass day at work, so it’ll be nice to have something to watch.

    Atheose May 22, 2008, 12:07 pm
  • I have nothing earth-shattering to add other than that John is right: Joba, if moved to the rotation, should be mvoed in a manner least risky to his health. If that means he loses ML-level innings then that’s what the team should do, he’s too important a talent. And as for Hank, how can it be argued that he doesn’t have (or hasn’t had) a say in this matter? And conversely, why disclaim his involvement? It’s the right move for the team in the long run, so what does it matter if it has been instigated by Hank (which in this case he surely has been an influence — he’s the owner, this is his position, he’s made a public play for this to happen, etc – Occam’s Razor and all that). In this case, he’s mandating something that makes sense. I see no reason to offer a disclaimer about his influence, particularly when he has gotten something right.

    SF May 22, 2008, 12:08 pm
  • I think that the Yankee stadium might also be mirror-imaged–it looks more like a reversed version of right field than left field, I think.

    Kevin Youkulele May 22, 2008, 12:22 pm
  • SF-
    My initial comments were in response to the article that Paul linked to in his post. The general gist of which was Hank overruled everyone in the yankee organization and said Joba will start. I just dont think that this is the case. He may very well have said lets get this transition going acting on the advice from the baseball people. The way its been framed, at least to me, is that this decision was a unilateral one made by an impatient owner. This isnt the case IMO.

    Sam-YF May 22, 2008, 12:23 pm
  • But SF, it was made well-known in spring training that Joba would most likely be transitioned to the rotation mid-season. Hank’s comments merely reinforced that.
    Additionally, Hank’s comments were more along the lines of “This wasn’t my idea, he never would have gone to the bullpen last year if I was in charge.” That’s very different than him commanding that Joba be moved to the rotation.

    Atheose May 22, 2008, 12:24 pm
  • According to this article…
    Cashman said that team ownership had no part in pushing Chamberlain’s plan into action, and also said that the Yankees’ recent struggles — 21-25, last in the American League East — did not affect the timetable.
    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080521&content_id=2746128&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

    Atheose May 22, 2008, 12:27 pm
  • I didn’t read the linked article, so forgive me for that. But personally I believe the following:
    Joba needs to be in the rotation. The Yankees planned to move him into the rotation at some point. Hank wants him moved faster, the front office baseball guys have responded to both the team’s circumstance and the Owner’s desires. I see no problem with this, nothing controversial at all. I can’t imagine Hank is without influence, but he’s only, in this case, influencing something already planned.

    SF May 22, 2008, 12:28 pm
  • According to this article…
    Cashman said that team ownership had no part in pushing Chamberlain’s plan into action, and also said that the Yankees’ recent struggles — 21-25, last in the American League East — did not affect the timetable.

    I just find this very hard to believe, all the evidence and circumstance leads to the opposite conclusion – Hughes and Kennedy being injured and struggling, the general woes of the team, Hank’s vociferous desires, and the already extant plans to move Joba to the rotation all lead to a simple explanation: Joba is being moved sooner (not much sooner, but sooner) than was planned. Why is there an effort to deny something that is a sound baseball decision? Is this to protect Cashman? To shield Hank? I don’t get why there seems to be such evasion on this issue. The original plan was NOT to have Joba stretched out in May. There was, according to Cashman earlier this year, no timetable at all. On April 23rd in the Times, the Yankees say there is no timetable. On March 20th Joe Girardi indicated that they hoped that everyone remained healthy and that the plan was to make Joba a starter, but on no timetable. So now we are supposed to believe this was always the plan? Seriously? Saying “it did not affect the timetable” implies that this has always been the plan and that this was the timetable.
    To repeat, I think this is the right move, so most of this is just noise, chatter. But why does the team have to come off as so dishonest about it?

    SF May 22, 2008, 12:36 pm
  • “then taken an argumentative stance with John.”
    Wow, you guys have exceedingly thin skins if you think THAT was argumentative. I hope your feelings weren’t hurt, John. If so, I’m really very, very sorry. Please forgive me.
    And that Newsday pieces WAS a load of crap – no surprise that some SFs want to take it at face value. The last two years of evidence (college and minors) says everyone knew Joba was a starter, and before Hank even came aboard. Melacon and Cox, by contrast, were dominating college closers. They’ll be in the mix for the 8th inning before the season is out.

    A YF May 22, 2008, 12:40 pm
  • Melacon and Cox, by contrast, were dominating college closers.
    So was Craig Hansen. Hopefully they’ll be in the mix just like Hansen was his first couple of cups.

    SF May 22, 2008, 12:43 pm
  • “But why does the team have to come off as so dishonest about it?”
    Why are you trying to start something that isn’t and never has been there? Really, what’s the point? What are you trying to prove? That professional sports teams always make their plans perfectly obvious? Shocking!
    “Joba is being moved sooner (not much sooner, but sooner) than was planned. ”
    This is “overly simplistic” and completely wrong. They always planned to move him mid-season. The transition now will take 6 – 8 weeks. Exactly on schedule.

    A YF May 22, 2008, 12:43 pm
  • Nah, SF, isn’t being “argumentative” in the least. Give it up already.

    A YF May 22, 2008, 12:44 pm
  • By the way, I’ll take a dominating closer from Texas or Arizona over the baseball powerhouse known as St. John’s any day of the week and twice for a double-header.

    A YF May 22, 2008, 12:48 pm
  • Whoops, I’ve now made three posts in a row (no, four!). To the penalty box…

    A YF May 22, 2008, 12:52 pm
  • Wow man, you’re such an ass, what’s the point? Just go away.

    LocklandSF May 22, 2008, 12:56 pm
  • SF
    I totally disagree with your supposition that the team is being dishonest with their plans for Joba. I think they have made the moves exactly how and when they have wanted to and have been pretty open discussing it with the press. Fact is that there is some give and take with how this plan is done and they are somewhat doing it on the fly.
    I also dont see why you say he is being moved sooner than planned. Explain?

    Sam-YF May 22, 2008, 1:10 pm
  • It’s just a reason to rip the Yankees…nothing more fellas. They said they were going to do this and they did. Anything else is reaching for reasons to rip the team…is this not transparent to you guys or are you trying to call out SF on this point?

    krueg May 22, 2008, 1:15 pm
  • i dont think that most of the regulars are very prone to do this around here but i tend to agree with you Krueg.

    Sam-YF May 22, 2008, 2:11 pm
  • Surely the myth of the SI cover curse died with this ?

    Ron Newman May 22, 2008, 2:17 pm
  • I hear you Sam, I’ve become somewhat of a pariah around here since I defended A YF a few times…oh well.
    I don’t think SF can help it..just years of anti-Yankee programming!!! Right SF??? ;)

    krueg May 22, 2008, 2:41 pm
  • “Brad and I have some great discussions for sure…right buddy????”
    ha.

    Anonymous May 22, 2008, 2:50 pm
  • ^me.

    Brad May 22, 2008, 2:51 pm
  • This is even more pronounced in the playoffs – if you can take the best out of 4 SP’s (with Joba), it would be better. Of course, this assumes Joba is at least say, a #3 starter by then.

    Lar May 22, 2008, 4:10 pm
  • Also, on the “earlier than planned”.. if you go the other way, you can say the “Yanks are stubborn”, so I rather just call it an adaptive move – Hughes and Kennedy just didn’t get the job done. Even if they had just performed like the wildly inconsistent Ervin Santana (of a few years back) it would’ve been “good enough” (for me, though they would probably get trashed by people..)

    Lar May 22, 2008, 4:12 pm
  • We’re buddies…right Brad? We’re all on the same team come Olympic time. Just remember that!

    krueg May 22, 2008, 4:19 pm
  • It’s the right move for the team in the long run, so what does it matter if it has been instigated by Hank (which in this case he surely has been an influence — he’s the owner, this is his position, he’s made a public play for this to happen, etc – Occam’s Razor and all that). In this case, he’s mandating something that makes sense. I see no reason to offer a disclaimer about his influence, particularly when he has gotten something right.

    Joba needs to be in the rotation. The Yankees planned to move him into the rotation at some point. Hank wants him moved faster, the front office baseball guys have responded to both the team’s circumstance and the Owner’s desires. I see no problem with this, nothing controversial at all. I can’t imagine Hank is without influence, but he’s only, in this case, influencing something already planned.

    To repeat, I think this is the right move, so most of this is just noise, chatter. But why does the team have to come off as so dishonest about it?

    So this is me “ripping” the Yankees, or being argumentative, just because I perceive the front office as being a bit deceptive about the plan? I don’t get it: I think this is the right move by the Yankees. But the fact is that they are contradicting their own prior statements, and I just don’t understand why they are doing this. It may not even be devious or intentional, I just don’t know. But they said there was no timetable and now they are saying they are sticking with the timetable they had (which didn’t exist, supposedly). It’s minor and not really all that important, I have already said this, but it is still awkward. That’s it, nothing more.

    SF May 22, 2008, 5:04 pm
  • per Sam:
    “I also dont see why you say he is being moved sooner than planned. Explain?”
    What statements are they contradicting SF? I was under the impression they were going to try and get him in the rotation by the end of June…is he not on schedule by starting the process the second to last week in May? You seem to be nit-picking bro…you still haven’t answered Sam’s post?

    krueg May 22, 2008, 5:38 pm
  • I may very well be nit-picking, krueg!
    Here’s the thing that is confusing to me, as best as I can articulate it:
    — There is no “timetable” for Joba being in the rotation, per the Yankees’ public comments until recently, and I only did a cursory search of the Times but there has to be more, for sure. I quoted what I found in a two-second search above.
    — Today thy say they have made no alterations to their timetable for his return to the rotation, indicating that there was, in fact, a timetable for his return.
    Again, not a big deal, I wasn’t trying to make it into one — certainly this is the exact right move for the team. I just sense a bit of duplicity, and by this I don’t mean it is nefarious, it may just be a front office guarding their information, who knows. But it seems to me that all the people talking about Joba and his transition haven’t been on the same page (Hank, Girardi, Cashman, etc.), and that’s led to this confusion on my part. I don’t find this surprising, frankly, nor do I find it to be much of an issue (as I have stated several times).

    SF May 22, 2008, 6:05 pm
  • “Again, not a big deal, I wasn’t trying to make it into one”
    Sure you were. But nice bit of backtracking!

    A YF May 22, 2008, 8:06 pm
  • >Sure you were
    Please, stop.

    attackgerbil May 22, 2008, 9:05 pm
  • heehee
    i got tired, and ‘a yf’, along with krueg have picked up the slack with keeping you sf’s honest….i love it….
    “…please stop…”….i expected the earlier reaction from lockland, totally within character, or lack thereof, but if you’re really a yankee fan ag, and i’m beginning to have my doubts, you need to push back a bit more at sox fans who still seem obsessed with the evil empire myth…after all, we’re not nearly as despicable as the patriots….
    crickets…
    tree frogs…
    ha ha ha

    dc May 22, 2008, 11:38 pm
  • > evil empire myth
    I can not defend nor destroy a metaphor I never helped construct nor in which ever I believed, my friend. Good to see you back ’round these parts. I can withstand scrutiny. Allow your doubts to roam where they will.

    attackgerbil May 23, 2008, 12:13 am
  • Allow your doubts to roam where they will.
    I don’t think you are really a gerbil.

    SF May 23, 2008, 12:20 am
  • i love you buddy…i’m just being contrary tonight…i’ve been off for awhile, but i missed you all…i would like to see you push back more at the sox fans though…you’re one of the more intelligent and thoughtful yf’s [unlike myself], and i think certain sf’s need to be put in their place more often, despite the recent history, which has emboldened them, perhaps understandably…that doesn’t give them free reign to disparage the yankees, which some posts and many comments seem intent on doing, by stretching a point, or downright hallucinating…this thread is a good example…

    dc May 23, 2008, 12:26 am
  • > I don’t think you are really a gerbil.
    My mother was a hamster?
    and your father smelt of oh never mind.

    attackgerbil May 23, 2008, 12:27 am
  • SF: I think this is supposed contradiction is merely the product of guys being on record constantly, and the term “timetable” being used in various contexts. That’s not disingenuous, necessarily. The Yanks always had a “timetable” or “plan” to move Joba into the rotation, but it’s always been flexible, of necessity, and it continues to be so. The FO ends up commenting on this constantly, and this is what happens. But really. Is there any there there? Not really.

    YF May 23, 2008, 12:31 am
  • dc:
    I am not going to go near the “putting SFs in their place” BS, since that is really something that our site is NOT about, but let me just state that I am something of a cynic with front offices, always have been to an extent. Here’s a comment of mine from a thread on Papelbon’s return to the bullpen last year, about the SOX’ front office, a team I actually root for:
    My big question, if this is true, will be one based in cynicism: how much did the front office lean on the medical staff, and do the Sox employ a medical staff that can be leaned on? I hate to think there might have been some pressure on the diagnosis, but I can’t get the idea out of my head.
    Suffice it to say that there is a red herring in always defaulting to the charge of unmitigated bias or a need to always defame the Yankees – I may dislike the team but I think it is fair to say that I am at heart a critic, and in many cases it doesn’t matter what hat the person wears whose actions I question. Oftentimes I am simply wrong about things, but often that wrongness has little to do with a uniform and much to do with, well, not knowing a hell of a lot.

    SF May 23, 2008, 12:35 am
  • cross-posted with YF –
    I tend to agree with you, there’s not much there (as I have alread said above, a few times), but I still find it semantically contradictory, and, as I say above, I tend towards cynicism. Haven’t I established that here rather well over the course of the years?!!?

    SF May 23, 2008, 12:37 am
  • fair enough sf for the most part…
    however, on the subject of pushing back at sf’s, i wouldn’t call it bs…the debate is unbalanced and i’m not the only one who perceives it that way…i’ll chalk it up to a couple of factors: the sox recent success has emboldened sf’s while humbling yf’s…that, and ag, nick, and yf come across as a bit more objective and mellow [and i know i’m offending you, for which i’ll apologize, but won’t retract] than their sf counterparts…you guys have an innate hatred of the yankees, which doesn’t seem to be shared about the sox by your colleagues…

    dc May 23, 2008, 12:48 am
  • Can’t see getting very worked up over this front office matter. It’s entirely possible, and perhaps even most probable, that the Yankees wanted to do something mid-season with Joba (and perhaps even had a more specific timeline) but didn’t want to go on record as such so as to avoid being called to question if they didn’t do it exactly as they had stated one, two, or three weeks earlier. They therefore said there is no timeline. In this case, once they bit the bullet and started the transition they could very honestly say that this is all happening according to their timeline.
    I don’t think front offices are inherently honest or dishonest, but I am surprised frankly that the question over which the Yanks front office was in this case has generated so much heat. Does anyone really care that much one way or the other?

    IronHorse (yf) May 23, 2008, 1:29 am
  • Well said, across the board, dc.
    The real problem in this thread was SF pushing the “dishonesty” card – which he couldn’t possible know and doesn’t seem to follow our team enough to actually know. Indeed, based on his own admission, it was based on a cursory search (“two seconds”) of the Times archive. So why push something that he was so ignorant of? dc, sam, and krueg nailed it.
    The plan was always to move Joba mid-season. And they’re exactly on schedule. End of story.
    “Does anyone really care that much one way or the other?”
    No, but then SF made it into a big deal where there wasn’t one. And he kept being “argumentative” even when shown to be flat out wrong.
    If we were having this discussion one month ago (when the pitching was also struggling), then the “sooner” angle would apply. We’re not and it doesn’t.
    Next…

    A YF May 23, 2008, 7:48 am
  • Glad to have another in the “fight” DC…I couldn’t agree with your 12:26 post more.

    krueg May 23, 2008, 10:55 am

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