What a Difference a Day Makes

Okay, The Greatest Lineup in History™ was down a few men on the left side of the infield last night, but….um….still. Only 24 hours after abusing the O’s like Clinton on Wallace, our Bombers couldn’t even muster a hit until the ninth against Daniel Cabrera by fellow Dominican Robi Cano. “He’s not my friend anymore,” says Cabrera. Boo hoo. For another one of their countrymen (and his teammates), things are even worse: Pedro Martinez will miss the playoffs. We can’t stand the Mets, not one bit, but as baseball fans, we’re disappointed. Harumph.

60 comments… add one
  • The Metros have been doing everything they did this year without him, what’s it matter now?

    Brad September 29, 2006, 11:58 am
  • Brad: I wouldn’t sneeze at 130+ innings and 9 wins. Anyway, I could care less about the Mets chances; what I’ll miss is the Pedro Show. Is there (has there ever been) a pitcher more fun to watch than a healthy Pedro Martinez?

    YF September 29, 2006, 12:02 pm
  • nope. My favorite player of all time – no questions asked.
    And when I said that he hasn’t been there all year, I meant “he” as in the normal post-season, inning-eating, strike out machine that we’re used to seeing. He’s now a washed up, injured version of himself who is living in the shadow of himself. His intimidation factor has now worn off, and since he can’t hardly pin the needle down on anyone, they sit on him. It’s sad if you ask me – they’re better off not depending on the guy that has showed up for them in the last two months.

    Brad September 29, 2006, 12:06 pm
  • My best Pedro memory remains the 6 no-hit innings in relief with a bad back as the Red Sox climbed out of a 6-0 hole to win Game 3 of the (1998?) ALDS against Cleveland.

    Paul SF September 29, 2006, 12:29 pm
  • Paul, that was one of the greatest pitching performances I’ve ever seen. Probably the height of Pedro’s legend for me, although there have been so many peaks. I didn’t watch Randy Johnson much during his stretch of greatness but most people think only he approached Petey at his best. I can’t imagine anyone being near to his level.

    Nick-YF September 29, 2006, 12:43 pm
  • I think my favorite will always be the early 2003 game in which he shut down the Yanks in mind boggling fashion, onto to have Soriano win it in the 9th–so the best of both worlds: a brilliant Pedro and a Yankee win. Which was not unusual, actually. But SF and I were at that game, and it was a dazzling display,
    To me, neither Clemens nor Johnson compares to Pedro. Those guys are 2-pitch pitcher: fastball slider. The genius of Pedro was that he had so many dominant pitches, and that he could throw them all with command and at varying speeds. He both out-muscled and out-thought his opponents. A wizard. And though it’s sad he’s only a shadow of his old self, I still find him compelling to watch, as he tries to engineer outs with the stuff he has. There’s something honorable there. I enjoy watching.

    YF September 29, 2006, 12:56 pm
  • “they’re better off not depending on the guy that has showed up for them in the last two months.”
    Right you are, but if you’re a Met fan, you’ve got to be scared shitless by a rotation that has Glavine and El Duque(love the guy, but c’mon, your #2?) at the top.
    Can’t wait to see my Met fan friends without the swagger they’ve had all year.

    Andrews September 29, 2006, 12:59 pm
  • Andrews –
    Take a look at those El Duque post-season stats. They’re gross. I’ll take his post season start every day of the week. Especially the way he’s been lately combined with that post season success.
    My favorite Pedro moment was easily his dominant seven innings in the WS against SL. Not the most memorable, but the favorite nonetheless.

    Brad September 29, 2006, 1:33 pm
  • The best Pedro game I’ve ever seen was in 1999, at Yankee Stadium. I think it was something like 1 hit (solo shot off the foul pole… Chili Davis??), 17Ks. He *toyed* with them.
    The relief appearance in the ALDS was amazing too. If I recall correctly the game was tied at 8 coming into the 4th inning. No other pitcher on either team could stop the offenses. Pedro comes, sore shoulder (?) and all, and throws 6 no-hit innings. Jaw-dropping stuff, that.

    Rob (Middletown, CT) September 29, 2006, 1:40 pm
  • Rob (Middletown, CT) September 29, 2006, 1:43 pm
  • Brad,
    Yes, I know and love those stats, but the one apperance since 2002 as a starter was abysmal. I have bad memories of it, to say the least. He and Glavine have had great careers, but are too old to carry a team to a WS title.

    Anonymous September 29, 2006, 1:59 pm
  • I’m with Andrews on this one. I don’t think the Mets have enough with Duque, Glavine and A N Other to scare the rest of the NL. Their lineup will have to mash about 8 runs a game for them to have a chance and in case anyone hasn’t noticed, their bats have also gone relatively cold lately.
    I really want the Stros to overtake the Cards and see Clemens have one last shot at a WS. He won’t be spent in the post-season like he was last year.

    Sam September 29, 2006, 2:03 pm
  • Just goes to show how well I remember. It was Game 5 of the 1999 series after the Sox had been down two games to none, then promptly destroyed Cleveland in two straight games:
    Pedro came in in the fourth after Bret Saberhagen and Derek Lowe managed to give up eight runs on seven hits in three innings. Thankfully, Charles Nagy was equally inept, and the Sox had tied it in the top of the fourth.
    Pedro walked three batters and struck out eight in the six innings. The Sox broke the game open in the seventh on a Troy O’Leary homer.
    I was 17 years old watching that game on my living room floor. I remember distinctly the feeling that this would go down as one of the greatest pitching performances in the history of baseball.

    Paul SF September 29, 2006, 2:03 pm
  • Btw – YF, was Cabrera serious? I’m hoping he said that with his tongue firmly in his cheek.

    Sam September 29, 2006, 2:05 pm
  • still to this day i love pedro for dropping zim. in june of 95 jason bates (former rockie 2nd baseman) flew my father and i out to colorado to see one of his first major league starts. this happened to be the game zimmer quit on the rockies in the middle of the 5th inning. it was the worst display of disrespecting the code of baseball ethics i had ever seen. the coolest part was that the rockies came back to win that game. i’m glad pedro gave him what he had comming.

    sf rod September 29, 2006, 2:30 pm
  • In his post-game comments, Pedro said that he dropped Zimmer for the Colorado fans.

    Nick-YF September 29, 2006, 2:36 pm
  • Sending Soriano the Jeter to the hospital back to back for diving over the plate wont be forgotten all that easily.

    Brad September 29, 2006, 2:45 pm
  • Or showing Flemming what the strike zone looks like and where it’s located by making small box with his hands from the mound was great as well.
    I thought the Zimmer thing was a little over the top, but when he plunked Sheffield and then laughed when he started barking (all he ever does) at him all the way down the line.

    Brad September 29, 2006, 2:47 pm
  • I think Pedro did it for Bill Lee and the ’79 Sox, who should have/would have gone to the Series that year without his stubborn refusal to pitch him during that last weekend…

    Paul SF September 29, 2006, 2:49 pm
  • “Sheffield and then laughed when he started barking (all he ever does) at him all the way down the line.”
    memory is a trciky thing. I seem to remember Pedro being respectfully quiet and straight faced.

    Nick-YF September 29, 2006, 2:57 pm
  • Memory is a tricky thing – Pedro looked like a scared little choir-boy when Sheff was yelling at him, no doubt.
    While it’s hard not to respect Pedro for his pitching, throwing an old man in his late 70’s to the turf is hardly anything to laud – give me a break. And by the same token, since that punk has had to bat, he hasn’t really sent anybody to the hospital, has he? C’mon.

    Andrews September 29, 2006, 3:20 pm
  • Andrews:
    Where does throwing half of a razor-sharp bat fall on the toughness scale?

    SF September 29, 2006, 3:22 pm
  • You’re talking about Clemens? They should have thrown the mf out of the game, no doubt.

    Andrews September 29, 2006, 3:27 pm
  • …uh, pedro has never been disrespectfully quiet about anything…just when the positive recollections earlier in this thread started to mellow my memories about the guy, i’ve been reminded of his dark side…the head-hunter in him…and before someone lectures me about hitting batters being part of baseball, he has a bad reputation for those “purposeful” pitches that do more than move a guy off the plate, that could have resulted in an ugly incident or serious injury, even uglier than his attack [don’t even try the self-defense angle] on zimmer…sf, just a reminder that clemens was your boy to begin with, and from what i understand you want him back…didn’t you ever teach him any manners when he was growing up in beantown?…

    dc September 29, 2006, 3:29 pm
  • …some sf’s are still pissed at him because he had to leave boston to win…your beef is with Theo I [dandy dan d]…

    dc September 29, 2006, 3:31 pm
  • Sam: Yes, Cabrera was totally joking according to several stories I have read. Cabrera and Cano live two minutes from each other in the DR.
    Last night’s jewel was Cabrera’s 2nd complete game of the year; he threw a 5-hit shutout in a 15-0 trouncing of the Jays in August. He also still has a 1.58 WHIP and a 5+ ERA to go along with that AL walks lead. So basically, great performance last night. Maybe not a fluke, but highly unlikely, though his up-side is tremendous should he resolve that control issue.

    attackgerbil September 29, 2006, 3:39 pm
  • SF,
    While we’re on the topic, where does beating up an old man fall on your toughness scale?

    Andrews September 29, 2006, 3:45 pm
  • …and I’m guessing that it has to be a sliding scale…

    Andrews September 29, 2006, 3:47 pm
  • when did “escorting to the ground” become “beating up”?

    sf rod September 29, 2006, 3:55 pm
  • As a Yanks fan, I found nothing wrong with what Pedro did to Zimmer. In fact, Zimmer apologized to his team for going after Martinez. I think Pedro’s reaction was reasonable. But this is old territory we’re covering.

    Nick-YF September 29, 2006, 3:59 pm
  • where does beating up an old man fall on your toughness scale?
    Who “beat up an old man”? In the game I watched, Zimmer ran at Pedro, Pedro sidestepped him, and threw him down. What would you do if someone charged you, even if they were much older than you? Would you stand still? Would you try to dodge the guy with your hands at your side like a lightpost? Or would you do something mildly violent but not harshly so, and then step away?
    Only in Bizarro Yankeeland does Pedro tossing Zimmer to the ground become “beating him up”.

    SF September 29, 2006, 4:09 pm
  • Ask Robin Ventura about beating up old men.

    attackgerbil September 29, 2006, 4:14 pm
  • “respectfully quiet”
    He did at first, then waved his golve at him in a suggested “whatever” move, and smiled at Varitek. I have it on DVD at home. He knows, just like everyone else, that Sheffield wasn’t going to do a damn thing but yell at someone. He’s the posterboy for All Bark – has been for years.

    Brad September 29, 2006, 4:30 pm
  • “All Bark”
    is that because he did not pull an Artest and take out the entire right field section like he should have?
    Knowing that people in that area (Groundskeeper Willy or something) already like to press charges on yankees players…

    Seth September 29, 2006, 4:40 pm
  • I am referring to when he was attacked by fans, not the pedro incident.

    Seth September 29, 2006, 4:41 pm
  • seth- by “artest” do mean how sheff attacked the fans in chicago when he was with the dodgers in may of 2000?

    sf rod September 29, 2006, 4:50 pm
  • …sf…nice try, but you can’t wiggle out of this one for pedro…you are right, he didn’t beat him up, but only in bizzaro-beantownsoxland is is ok for a man half his age to throw a 70+ guy to the ground…you guys would be screaming bloody murder if jeter knocked down al nipper or tito…what could pedro do?…he’d have been more of a man to just walk away from it…he can outrun zimmer can’t he?…and, no [since you’re so predictable] we wouldn’t have called him chicken for doing so…and before you forget, the real villian in the incident was veritek [with is mask still ON] for sucker-punching arod on the way to first base…

    dc September 29, 2006, 4:58 pm
  • I am aware Sheffield is not “all bark”. He also attacked fans in Arizona I believe. I was merely questioning the labeling of him as such.

    Anonymous September 29, 2006, 4:59 pm
  • dc, I would APPLAUD if someone took out Nipper.

    SF September 29, 2006, 5:00 pm
  • …you kill me sf…that’s the funniest thing i’ve heard anyone say on this site in days…he’s not that bad is he?…

    dc September 29, 2006, 5:03 pm
  • I dont understand either how Pedro “attacks” Zimmer, when Pedro is backing up and moving out of the way during the incident. Odd words from the yfs.

    Paul SF September 29, 2006, 5:05 pm
  • Semantics aside, you sidestepped my question. OK, let me get this straight: on your scale it’s cool for a 32 yr old athelete to throw an old man to the ground in a “mildly violent fashion.” In the game I watched it wasn’t mildly violent at all – in fact Zimmer had to go to the hospital to be checked out.
    Let me refresh your memory on 2 points – 1. Pedro started the whole fracas by hitting Karim Garcia in the back with a pitch. Later he threated to hit Posada in the head.
    2. Zimmer sustained a life threatening injury when he was hit in the head with a pitch – he has a plate in his head from it. It’s somewhat understandable, then that Zimmer would snap given Pedro’s headhunter’s reputation and threats.
    Throwing that old man to the ground was not necessary – he could have easily avoided the whole thing by stepping aside.
    Pedro is a punk for doing that – he is quite the hit man when he doesn’t have to pay the piper. Why didn’t he challange Sheff to come out to the mound? Because Sheff would have pounded his punk ass into the dirt.
    I’m astounded that some in RSN actually lauds this disgusting display.

    Andrews September 29, 2006, 5:32 pm
  • “and smiled at Varitek.”
    Maybe he thought Varitek would start another fight with his mask on.

    Andrews September 29, 2006, 5:39 pm
  • So it’s cool for a man as long as he’s older and has a good enough back story to charge at another man, and that other man should then consider all this information and make the collected decision to not in any way defend himself? I’ll remember that next time.
    Don’t forget, it was Zimmer who tearfully apologized for embarrassing himself, not Pedro for defending himself.

    Paul SF September 29, 2006, 5:49 pm
  • yeah, “all bark” doesn exactly mean beating up the drunk guy in the fist row, and yelling at the player that hit you in the elbow. The only person I’ve ever seen Shef real… oh nevermind, he’s the toughest person to ever live. Everyone is scared to death of him.
    Pedro’s is an ass for not letting Zimmer bull rush him and run away to avoid the incident. I know I would have – wait, nevermind I definitely would not have. Being old is no excuse for being stupid. He knew what might happen when he charged.

    Brad September 29, 2006, 5:49 pm
  • “So it’s cool for a man as long as he’s older and has a good enough back story to charge at another man, and that other man should then consider all this information and make the collected decision to not in any way defend himself? I’ll remember that next time.”
    this explains why I always get my ass kicked in bar fights. I always consider all the background information leading up to the assault on me, and then it’s BLAM.

    Nick-YF September 29, 2006, 6:05 pm
  • pedro should have also taken into account that zimmer was a quitter. who knows, zim might have been running to the exit located behind pedro.
    don’t bring in posada into this. no one knows what pedro was saying. and jorge is the master of dugout tough guy. always yelling about handeling things in the parking lot. what a joke.
    i have no doubt sheff would punch 9 month pregnant cancer victim on life support if it was good for sheff. no one loves sheff like sheff.

    sf rod September 29, 2006, 6:13 pm
  • “I’ll remember that next time.”
    Works when you have a chance to fight women and children too.

    Andrews September 29, 2006, 6:19 pm
  • “don’t bring in posada into this. no one knows what pedro was saying.”

    Andrews September 29, 2006, 6:23 pm
  • pedro probably should have taken into account some of the background info with posada as well. jorge’s kid has craniosynostosis (giant head disease). that was just poor form on pedro’s account.

    sf rod September 29, 2006, 6:35 pm
  • …paul, i don’t disagree with you that zimmer was wrong for charging pedro in the first place…that’s the reason he apologized, because he felt his actions embarrassed himself and the yankees…but, the point you’re missing is that pedro [and you could see the angry look on his face] had his manhood threatened by this 70 year old guy running at him, and instead of doing the noble thing, and just avoiding him, or getting someone to step between them, he forcibly “assisted” zimmer to the ground…let’s not forget, it was pedro that started all the BS in the first place, and that coward, your captain, jason ‘the mask” veritek…those 2 losers owe the yankees and baseball fans everywhere an apology…

    dc September 29, 2006, 6:44 pm
  • I slipped, I tell you, I slipped. I wasn’t “put down” “assisted”, or “escorted to the ground” by Mr Mango. If I hadn’t lost my footing they would be calling that game the “Last Mango In Boston”. I would have wiped the mound with that little jackass named Pedro!

    Don Zimmer September 29, 2006, 6:54 pm
  • Andrews:
    Can you stop making absurd generalizations about the entirety of RSN? Try, just once. Please. It’s not very hard.

    SF September 29, 2006, 7:23 pm
  • “some in RSN”
    What part of some do you not understand?

    Andrews September 29, 2006, 8:41 pm
  • …come on zim, it’s a better story if you let folks think pedro beat you down…
    …sf, you mean all RSN’ers don’t drink the same anti-yankee koolaid?…

    dc September 29, 2006, 8:42 pm
  • …sf’s, help me out…i think i saw [or dreamt] somewhere that it costs money [as in dues] to join the nation…is that true?…and if it is…well, i’ll do my best to refrain from comment…if it isn’t, i’ll skulk back to my corner and come up with some other way to make fun of you…

    dc September 29, 2006, 8:47 pm
  • I think joining what is sold by the Sox as “RSN” is like joining some sort of fan club. The Sox have co-opted the idea of “a Red Sox Nation” and made it into a for-profit gimmick called “Red Sox Nation”. It’s lame: totally greed-driven.
    And Andrews: I stand corrected. I missed your modifier. My bad.

    SF September 29, 2006, 10:17 pm
  • Wasn’t Red Sox Nation a Shaughnessy invention? (I know Curse of the Bambino was)… At any rate, it’s a nice phrase and it means a lot to me as someone who lives 2,000 miles away from my New England homeland. Several times while working my job — and on vacation at the Grand Canyon most recently — I’ve had great conversations with people I never otherwise would have met simply because we both were wearing Red Sox caps or whatever. That’s what being a part of RSN is for me, finding a bond with complete strangers thousands of miles from Boston. You certainly don’t need a damn membership card :-P

    Paul SF September 30, 2006, 3:32 am
  • paul sf, you’re right, or at least you should be…it shouldn’t cost a damn thing or require membership to be part of the family of fans that support a particular team…i know plenty of folks who are proud to say they are a member of RSN who don’t pay for the privilege….i was just try to confirm a rumor that a “pay to join” version exists, which sf confirms having heard about as well…i agree with both of you [that may be a first] that it’s BS…

    dc September 30, 2006, 10:17 am
  • Ueah, dc, you can go to redsoxnation.com I believe and pay for an official membership card… They were quite in vogue after 2004 — surprise, surprise…

    Paul SF September 30, 2006, 4:41 pm

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