CC Sabathia has lost 30 pounds! Or maybe not. (h/t to Brad)
Maybe they'll trade it (and Jesus Montero, of course) to Minnesota for Francisco Liriano?
by Paul SF on February 11, 2011 at 3:00 pm in
General Yankees · 27 comments
Montero for Liroano is flat out stupid.
Plus, why the hell would Minny do ANYTHING to make NY better. Having been eliminated from the playoffs, and basically just laying down for NY every year since I can remember didn’t teach them anything?
That deal is WAY too risky for Cashman, though, he did deal the kid with just as much hype for Curtis Granderson, so maybe he does it?
I think that makes Morneau available immediately if it happens.
And yeah, Cashman shitting on CC’s weight is just weird to me. Maybe he’s just joking?
Brad February 11, 2011 at 3:09 pm
I think the Yankees would be silly not to do what it takes to get Liriano, though Montero is probably too high a price, given his injury history. Still, I doubt the Twins are really thinking about trading away their ace a full two years before he’s eligible for free agency.
Paul SF February 11, 2011 at 3:15 pm
Montero won’t be traded for Liriano. Just put it in perspective with the other aces that have been traded: Greinke, Lee, Halladay, etc…Montero is a top 5 prospect (top 3 in some rankings). There were no top 5 prospects dealt in any of those deals. Nice prospects (including Drabek) but not top flight, top 5-10 prospects. If the Yankees make a move for Liriano it’d most likely be for someone in the middle like Sanchez, (who some believe is the more complete catcher, but why would Minny want a C?) Banuelos, Betances, etc…Marcum was dealt for Lawrie who is a good not great prospect and Marcum is a very good comp for Liriano.
Why would they trade him to the Yankees? Well because they aren’t going to re-sign him and by all accounts they have made that very clear. So count the teams that are desperate for pitching, have a very good farm system and are willing to part with talent for a possible short term solution? By my estimation I don’t see another fit other than the Yankees. Minny is finance first. I doubt who they are trading him to would even come into play to be quite honest. They believe in their farm system, being fiscally responsible and their managers ability to to be their strength and focal points.
Morneau is locked up through 2014, why would they move him?
Austin Jackson was never a top 5 prospect, ever. Maybe little league. He was a well regarded prospect (top 15-25) but he never got the type of minor league billing that Montero is getting. I am fine with that deal. Granderson is a nice player and a good fit based on him playing 81 games in Yankee Stadium.
I am really getting sick of Cashman and I doubt I alone. If he wants to be fired, fine just come out and say it. He needs to stop talking to the media with such reckless abandon, the same thing he got all in a tizzy over (and holds a grudge over) that Joe Torre did when he wrote his book. Granted Torre’s secrets and revelations were more insider info, but it’s the same thing: SHUT YOUR MOUTH! What he should be concerned with is how poorly prepared this team is pitching wise for the 2011 season. It’s a shows a complete lack of preparation. But you don’t see Hal, Hank or anyone in the Yankees system selling him out and telling the media how he f*cked up right? Study the market, study your expiring contracts, study when you farm system will be ready to provide a legitimate starting pitching prospect…this can all be done in years in advance. Bottom line is he put all his eggs in the Cliff Lee basket and you know what big mouth, you lost out. I’ve defended this man for the last time. He wants to prove himself in KC, or Colorado: PEACE.
John - YF February 11, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Montero won’t be traded for Liriano. Just put it in perspective with the other aces that have been traded: Greinke, Lee, Halladay, etc…Montero is a top 5 prospect (top 3 in some rankings).
none of those teams were 200M dollar teams with three holes in a rotation, either. No offense, but the Twins KNOW what the Yankees need, while they don’t need anything other than to fleece that need.
Listen, I wouldn’t move him either, and like Paul said, he’s two years from free agency, and they don’t have to do anything they don’t get a king’s ransom for doing.
The Yankees are exactly in that position. Most likely not going to happen – with anyone – much less than NY
Maybe Hank and Cashman are teaming up? It seems very weird and out of line with a traditional Cashman.
Brad February 11, 2011 at 4:08 pm
Worst scenario for New York is to be looking up at both Boston and Tampa, and closer to Baltimore (who I think is a damn good offensive team, and will win a shit load of games 10-8) at the break. Then, they do make a move like this just to keep pace for this year.
That’s a bad move.
Brad February 11, 2011 at 4:11 pm
He wants to prove himself in KC, or Colorado: PEACE.
This won’t happen under any scenario.
His next job is special assistant to Theo:)
Brad February 11, 2011 at 4:13 pm
Oh they can ask for whatever they want, doesn’t mean they will get it. We all speculate in re: to these trades but when was the last time a top flight prospect was traded prior to any major league exposure? (Delmon Young for Bartlett and Garza, after he showed he was a head case) I can’t think of any. Not to mention that Liriano is not an ace. I’d certainly hope that Cashman’s diarrhea of the mouth hasn’t spread to his brain in which case he’d be smart enough not to make such a deal.
The Yankees have 2 holes in their rotation. As much as it pains me to say this AJ Burnett cannot be considered a hole simply because he’s under contract for a few more years. He’s ours good, bad or indifferent. I’d even argue that Nova isn’t a hole either, but I don’t have that type of energy. The Yankees are missing one impact pitcher.
The Yankees could very well be chasing those teams, but I don’t think it will be early, it will be late. They don’t need a #5 for quite some time into the season and with the bullpen they have assembled plus their offense if they are going to fade and chase it will be in August and September when their shortcomings (age, lack of SP depth, etc…) get exposed.
I agree. Baltimore has put together quite an offense, too bad their pitching propects aren’t ready yet. Tillman, Britton, etc…are still not ready to make an impact. Their offense could be scary if Wieters starts to live up to his billing. I think Toronto is the team that has the best shot of that group to contend with the Yankees and Sox. Rays lost too much offense and their bullpen is borderline awful.
John - YF February 11, 2011 at 4:31 pm
agree. Baltimore has put together quite an offense, too bad their pitching propects aren’t ready yet.
I can agree with this as well. I think Toronto has lost too much offense, though.
I’d even argue that Nova isn’t a hole either, but I don’t have that type of energy.
Unless we’re just talking about stuff, I’d argue that you can’t.
Brad February 11, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Heyman is tweeting that Millwood (yeah, Kevin Millwood) is still a likely candidate for NY’s fourth or fifth spot, so the last five comments are for nothing anyhow if that’s the case.
Brad February 11, 2011 at 4:38 pm
To me a hole is Sergio Mitre, Freddy Garcia, Bartolo Colon…It’s a spot in your rotation occupied by a player that either is past their prime or has no upside. Nova showed some promise last season. Certainly not #1-3 promise, but flashes of being a very capable 4/5. Will it happen, I don’t know. What I do know is that I can’t consider him a hole until he proves otherwise.
As for Millwood, anything $5M or less and no more than 1 year and I am fine with him.
John - YF February 11, 2011 at 4:44 pm
As for Millwood, anything $5M or less and no more than 1 year and I am fine with him.
Brad February 11, 2011 at 4:48 pm
gotta love the giant gnads sox fans have grown by basically replacing beltre and martinez with crawford and gonzo…oh yeah, it’s a bit of an upgrade, and they do get ped and youk back…but, let’s see how it all plays out…this site could be a ghost town by the end of july like it was last year…with me and gerb, and occasionally the good sport brad, talking to ourselves…february’s not the time to gloat fellas…but it is good to see you participating again… ;)
dc February 11, 2011 at 11:34 pm
It *was* a pretty bad year all around for commenting here. Gerb was basically keeping the site running by his lonesome, the Sox had a pretty crappy year and the Yankees slid badly through the end of the season. I was watching the games, but between the extremely pregnant wife and the lack of drama in how it would turn out for the Sox, I didn’t see fit to post too often, it’s true.
However, YF’s did their own disappearing act in ’08. People are allowed to get off the ride when it’s making them sick.
Devine February 12, 2011 at 12:37 am
I am always here…like a virus. :)
krueg February 12, 2011 at 10:51 am
“That deal is WAY too risky for Cashman, though, he did deal the kid with just as much hype for Curtis Granderson, so maybe he does it?”
Austin Jackson was hyped as much as Montero? Huh? I don’t think Jackson cracked the top 30 of any national prospect list. Montero is a bigger, more hyped prospect than Jackson ever was. You have prospect mavens saying his bat could be as good as Miguel Cabrera’s.
My vote was to go for Greinke, even if it meant trading Montero. Actually, I’d probably still include Montero in a deal for Liriano. I just don’t see where Montero is going to play on the field and in the line-up for the Yanks. He is about as badly a matched prospect for them as you can have. The idea that he’s going to catch seems far fetched and Yankee spin based on the fact that the whole industry thinks he can’t do it. The problem with Liriano, however, is his injury history and the fact that he might not have the endurance for a whole season. He faded last season after legitimately pitching like an ace for the first half–look at the numbers, John!
Nick-YF February 12, 2011 at 8:38 pm
Nick I like Liriano but I don’t think he’s an ace.
That isn’t a slight. His numbers are good. He’s lefty and he’s still fairly young. He’d slot in behind CC for sure but he wouldn’t be our ace. I wasn’t saying he’s trash but he should not require a top 3-5 prospect to obtain. That’s just my opinion.
I think you’re being super hard on Montero. Victor Martinez caught for awhile right and by all accounts and stats he’s nearly the same defensively if not a tick better. His bat will play and really that’s where the appeal is. If he remains a Yankee they will find a spot for him.
John - YF February 12, 2011 at 9:54 pm
Admittedly I’ve never seen him play but Wil Myers another top prospect who can flat out hit is being moved to the OF. Pedro Alvarez is eventually moving to 1B by all accounts and Mauer will eventually move out from behind the dish (sooner than later) to preserve his knees and prolong his career. His (Montero) bat is special they will find a place for him somewhere. RF? DH? I wouldn’t be concerned about current mismatches.
John - YF February 12, 2011 at 10:02 pm
Save Montero for the blockbuster trade we’ll make in June/July…even hide him for another season in AAA if need be. I’m excited to see if playing in the Bronx will rejuvenate Martin and if so? They guy could turn out to be a steal.
As Nick said, Montero doesn’t really have a spot on the team so use him so you don’t have to use the Three B’s and can let them be the next generation of Yankee pitching?
krueg February 13, 2011 at 2:23 pm
Jon Heyman says CC lost 25: http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/37156100281212928
Bump February 14, 2011 at 9:31 am
Guess who found that 25lbs?
Holy Smokes. Did this kid sit on the beach sipping Corona and eating nachos?
Lil soft around the edges, Master Phil.
Brad February 15, 2011 at 8:34 am
That’s what Spring Training is for :) What’s with all this weight obsession lately? The goal is to leave Spring Training in shape, not come into Spring Training in shape…it’s just an added bonus if you do. Why are you looking at pictures of the Yankees anyway?
John - YF February 15, 2011 at 10:19 am
What’s with all this weight obsession lately?
Well, that’s what happens when everyone comes in fat.
Remember when Beckett and DiceK showed up overweight (and subsequently had horrible years, no less)? Everyone was a buzz about the spare tires.
Also, I find it highly interesting that Hughes showed up in shape like this. You don’t?
And while I agree that the goal is to leave spring training in shape, it’s equally important to not be starting from zero when it gets going.
Downplay this if youw want, but to me, it’s inexcusable. He’s as big as CC is, and maybe it’s just the grey shirt and B-cup-man-tits, but he looks really out of shape.
And, I always check the spring training pics: of both teams.
Brad February 15, 2011 at 11:13 am
I’d only be alarmed if he left spring training looking like that and even then I am not going to be overly concerned unless of course he struggled. Physical appearance is one thing, his arm strength is another. Heath Bell, CC, Todd Coffey, David Wells and on and on and on…it’s what’s in the wing I worry about, not the gut. Now if the weight started to play into longevity and effectiveness of his outings than I’d say he’s better suited pitching at his previous weight. Until then I am not worried.
John - YF February 15, 2011 at 11:28 am
Right on, but in most every case you listed, those guys were husky at birth.
Phil was in good shape last year; this weight is a new thing and packed on in the matter of a few months.
I hope you’re right. Or not, I can’t make up my mind.
In other news, just saw Clay Buchholz, who apparently thinks he’s Bronson Arroyo (or the lead singer for Puddle of Mud).
Brad February 15, 2011 at 11:33 am
That’s a valid point fo show. We shall see. I am a defender of the husky as I am one of them! I never came into March in shape and I never felt that it hindered my ability. But you’re right there’s a difference in the two. We shall see. As long as he’s in better shape than Colon, I am cool with that! ;)
John - YF February 15, 2011 at 11:41 am
I agree with John. Why would “Husky” mean unfit regarding a pitcher? I’m guessing that someone(s) at some point did a study about fielding, but at just over 60′ from the mound, I doubt that unless one is a mutant that can adjust the nature of the fourth dimension, one’s agility regarding being a lighter guy will make very little difference regarding reaching a ball versus a heavier version of a guy in those rare chances spread across a career. Chow down and throw fire, big guy.
attackgerbil February 15, 2011 at 11:52 am
Chow down and throw fire, big guy.
I agree. But, that wasn’t my point. My point was that there is such a difference between what he was six months ago. Nothing at all wrong with being a bigger dude..maybe an issue when bigger happens in a few short months. No?
Brad February 15, 2011 at 12:13 pm
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