Who Goes?

We think it is fair to say that there will be changes on the Sox this offseason. We hope they aren’t reactionary (fire the GM!) moves, but rather smartly considered personnel decisions tailored to the context. Beyond player personnel (Papi, Paps, what to do with an albatross like Lackey) we are curious to hear what people think will happen. We’re going with the following:

Theo – sticks around unless he quits, he is NOT getting canned
Tito – sticks around unless his health and emotions aren’t in it. He shouldn’t be canned, and won’t be
Allard Baird – gone
Curt Young – gone
Tim Bogar – gone, even Wendell Kim thinks this guy sucks

Thoughts?

74 comments… add one

  • One of the groups that needs to answer questions is the training/conditioning folks.
    Seems odd that we had our 2d year in a row that players began to breakdown at the end of the season at a cyclic rate. Some of these injuries may not be related, but someone there needs to answer some questions.
    I don’t know if Young should go or not, he has had just one season and he had some success and definitely some failures with the pitching staff. But 1 year of blaming him for some of the pitchers in the staff that he may or may not have had any possible input for is a tense issue.
    Bogar could be a sacrificial lamb, though we do tend to be a but more testy over our 3d base coaches for reasons unknown..:).
    Keep Theo and Tito….been a pretty good combination so far.
    The last month has been ugly, there were a number of bad decisions and bad circumstances that led to the collapse. The decisions look bad to us at times based upon how we see things vice being the in the dugout and having insider info.
    I know people want to have a goat, really the goat(s) in this are the players, the ones that underperformed or did not show up need to be held accountable. How that is accomplished, I don’t really know, but the usual victim in these situations is coaches and the players not held responsible.
    The question to ask, is who replaces Tito if fired? You need a manager with experience at dealing with this sized media and players with these types of contracts.
    Torre?…….

    Rob SF September 29, 2011, 5:53 pm
  • Young should be gone, but he will probably end up staying on since he has a two year contract, at least, he will get another year. He didn’t cause Buchholtz’s back to fracture (in my opinion their worst loss on the season), or cause lackey to suck.
    On the conditioning, you have to look there and their workout programs for the pitchers. From everything I’ve read the positional players workout like beasts in the off season. I’m wondering if the reason that Beckett and Lester take so long between pitches is they need to recover from the previous pitch. When Beckett is pitching it seems like other than throwing he expends as little energy as possible, slowly walking back to the dugout, working real slow could be a sign that he is out of shape.

    BillsBurgSF September 29, 2011, 6:25 pm
  • Tito, Theo, Young stay.
    Baird? Maybe. I have no idea what he does.
    Bogar? Gone. (Jesus, how hard is it to find a 3B coach who knows what he’s doing?)
    Lackey? Gone. No way he can pitch again for the Red Sox.
    Crawford? Tough one. He can’t be as bad next year as he was this year. And his trade value is REALLY low.
    Dean Wormer? Dead!
    Marmalard? Dead!
    Neidermeyer? Dead!
    RF … Do you start with a platoon that includes Reddick and hope Kalish is ready by July?

    I'mBillMcNeal September 29, 2011, 8:49 pm
  • I don’t know what Baird does, just looked at the Sox coaches and staff list on MLB.com and he is not listed at all. Thought he was like a bench coach, but DeMarlo Hale is listed as the Bench coach. It’s a mystery!
    Unfortunately I don’t think that anyone will take Lackey without the Sox eating about 90% of his salary and will probably only get low level prospects in return. I think he is back next year, at least that seemed to be the indications Theo gave during his press conference today.

    BillsBurgSF September 29, 2011, 9:08 pm
  • Ahh – Baird is their VP of Scouting.

    BillsBurgSF September 29, 2011, 9:16 pm
  • Wait, what the hell did Curt Young ever do to merit a multiyear deal? That seems like another huuuuuge over reach. And how did he help this year?
    I look around the diamond and I see painful choices. How can they let Ortiz and Papelbon go? Then again, how can they give them multiyear deals at market value? There goes payroll flexibility.
    1B and 2B is set and excellent. The left side is ugly and sad. Will they throw huge money at another Crawford-type player in Reyes. I hope so! And while Middlebrooks is close, how can they count on Youkilis? But they can’t trade him either. Can they? Perhaps they have no choice there. Some NL team will bite on him, perhaps.
    In the outfield, Ellsbury seems solid, finally, but how can you expect the same year again? They have no choice but to count on Crawford, but at what cost? He was awful and he’s the type to get old fast. What to do in RF? Let Kalish and Redick compete? Sign up for another huge contract?
    Is Varitek finally done? Who’s the personal catcher for “Play the Game the Right Way”? Is Salty really an answer when he finished the year with a 0.7 fWAR? Do you just say fuck it and see if Lavarnway doesn’t hack, on offense and defense, too bad?
    Then we get to the rotation. No doubt Lester and Beckett are excellent. But what caused their stink fest in September? Will Beckett ever throw 200 innings again? Lackey is below replacement level. And Kyle Weiland isn’t viable. Buchholz has to prove he can stay healthy….etc.
    Bullpen is fairly solid with Aceves and Bard. Then….?
    I see big, big changes for this Sox club. And with their recent signings, and no clear upgrades on the farm, I don’t see how the corrections don’t get even more expensive.

    James YF September 29, 2011, 11:45 pm
  • Shit.
    Looks like Tito’s out.
    Fucking damn it.
    Fuck, fuck, fuck.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 8:11 am
  • Oh, boy. It’s coming out on Toucher and Rich.
    Apparently we’ve returned to the 25 guys 25 cabs days of the 1970s.
    Just what I didn’t weant to hear.
    You know, you love your team the most when what you hear about them makes you want to hang out with them. I felt that way during most of Tito’s run.
    I doubt I’d have wanted to hang with this team. And I’m very disappointed in that.
    Makes me even more depressed about this season.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 8:36 am
  • Yeah, looks like Tito has maybe just had enough of Boston. On one hand we love Tito, on the other hand it does seem like his time may have run out. It is a chicken and egg thing – did Tito lose the clubhouse because his style has become too familiar? Or did the players just stop caring to the extent that Tito had no possible means to control things?
    So on one hand you might say that it is “time for a change” if Francona is emasculated, on the other hand that change might really need to be in the on-field personnel instead of the skipper. No easy answers obviously. Theo has a lot of self-assessment to do, he made this team the onus is on him to right the ship.
    One last caveat: I have never been one to over-credit “chemistry”. Winning teams have great chemistry (the “Idiots”), losing teams don’t (hello, 2011). Trophies always make up for fractiousness, the narrative always works out that way. Not much was said of the fractured Sox 45 days ago, right? So who knows the truth. Surely there seem to be some problems that have to be addressed. How much worse those are than elsewhere is very hard to say and likely distorted by the last few weeks’ events. Tito stepping away would seem to corroborate that they were in existence prior to the collapse.

    SF September 30, 2011, 8:45 am
  • I didn’t really pay enough attention to individual Sox games to evaluate Francona and whatever moves he makes, but I don’t think 2011 will define his tenure with the Sox, just like 2007 didn’t define Torre’s tenure with the Yankees. Francona remains a legendary figure in Boston sports, and good for him for recognizing his own personal limitations. If things were really as bad as rumors say, I don’t think anyone can blame him for cutting himself loose.
    I really hope, for you Sox fans’ sake, that the team doesn’t actually consider Bobby Valentine as manager. I would hate a ‘personality’ as manager, since as Francona showed, more often than not a guy without a huge ego is really best-suited to run a team with its own collection.

    AndrewYF September 30, 2011, 9:05 am
  • I just want to know where all the vaunted leadership was in that clubhouse. Seems like people were too busy with fist pumps and pirouettes to give a damn about each other.
    Where’s Jeter when you need him? :)

    James YF September 30, 2011, 9:21 am
  • James, that’s the question we’re all asking, just not so derisively.
    Where’s Jeter? Probably looking for new skank. (haha)

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 10:16 am
  • Andrew, I completely agree with all of your points.
    And I highly doubt Valentine would be on their radar. There’s a reason he’s not managing right now.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 10:19 am
  • SF – Character seems to be an issue.
    Seems like we had a bunch of entitled guys. So the days of Roger Clemens bitching about carrying his luggage returned.
    So … we’ll have to figure out where blame falls among Henry, Lucchino, Werner, Theo, Tito.
    I think we already know there are at least a handful of players to blame, starting with Lackey and Beckett.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 10:27 am
  • This is such a remarkable and depressing turn of events. Our franchise apparnetly is an absolute clusterfuck.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 10:33 am
  • “Where’s Jeter? Probably looking for new skank. (haha)”
    You would do well to get even one of the Captain’s sloppy seconds IBM! ;)

    krueg September 30, 2011, 10:44 am
  • Getting rid of Tito is a horrible idea. Right now people are looking to throw blame around, and getting rid of Tito (or letting him walk) would be a horribly reactionary decision. The Red Sox are a much better team with him as manager than any other option that’s out there.
    Personally I think the blame falls squarely on the players. Mainly Lackey and Wakefield, though obviously the Buchholz injury is up there too.
    Everything else (the conditioning, the managing) is secondary to the above.

    Atheose - SF September 30, 2011, 10:45 am
  • So apparently the “Henry has decided not to pick up Francona’s 2012 option” story is coming from the New York Daily News. I think I’ll wait until an official announcement is made. I just can’t see them letting him go like this.

    Atheose - SF September 30, 2011, 10:48 am
  • Well, krueg, seeing as I’m married, I’ll let that one slide. :)

    Another reason we should have seen this coming: http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2011/07/hell_yeah_red_s.html

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 10:49 am
  • Belichick not happy about this, either.

    Jesus, how does this happen?
    I have so much respect for the Big Four coaches/managers … Tito, The Bill, Claude, Doc. How fortunate we have been to have this group.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 10:54 am
  • SF and I disagree…yet again ;) We disagreed back when I said it was time for Torre to go as well. I think managers run their course. There’s only so long their act can last with a core group of players. Complacency sets in, players get too comfortable and most importantly the message gets lost. As a coach that’s very difficult for me to say, but I believe it to be true. I don’t know enough about the Sox day in and day out to say this definitely is the case with the Sox, but it very well could be based on what I’ve heard. From Millar to Schilling they have all made comments re: this Sox team lacking the “team” aspect. Millar just said on the radio he thought “something was missing.” You Sox fans know far more about this situation than I do, but I can tell you as difficult as it was to say I knew as a Yankee fan that it was time for Torre to go.
    Heard a few reports that it’s Tito that’s asking to be let go and not that he’s being fired. Apparently he has interest in the White Sox job?
    As for the players that stay/go: I think finding anyone to take Lackey is a long shot. Heck if you can find interest please let Cashman know so we can ask about AJ as well. Other than Lackey, this is a solid team for years to come. I believe Crawford needs one more year. Either he adjusts to playing in Boston or he doesn’t, but you can’t make a one year snap judgement on a player as good as him. The catching position is another spot, but even there by all accounts I’ve read re: 2011 minor leaguers, Lavarnway has come out of nowhere to become a legitimate candidate to be a solid big leaguer. Closer? Well maybe they don’t resign Papelbon but rather a veteran guy on the cheap that can bide the time needed to transition the job to Bard. I don’t buy that this team needs a major overhaul. Solid 3 front end SP’s, good offense and the chance of having a real good OF for years to come.
    As for Papi, who knows what he’ll ask for. Obviously you don’t want to do what the Yankees did and overpay because of the past (Posada) but if he comes on the cheap you can’t go wrong.
    Maybe I am a closet Sox fan, but I don’t see the “clusterf*ck”…I just don’t.

    John - YF September 30, 2011, 10:55 am
  • Ath, everyone is reporting it.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 10:55 am
  • Good grief. Stop paying attention for 12 hours…
    I’ve been composing a post in my head about this abominable month and crazy conclusion, and now it just gets crazier.
    Suffice it to say: Thank God I’m in grad school and was too busy to do much more than read box scores for the past four weeks. But this is really surprising to me.

    Paul SF September 30, 2011, 11:13 am
  • Millar on WEEI right now saying some very interesting stuff.
    He’s actually defending Lackey.
    Says Papi MUST be back. Paps, too.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 11:21 am
  • Gotta say, I love Millar.
    He is one funny sonofabitch.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 11:23 am
  • “if he comes on the cheap you can’t go wrong.”
    Good luck with that. Moreover where is Ortiz in all this? Talk about a guy that seems to put himself, and his numbers, first. Shouldn’t this be *his* team?
    “Solid 3 front end SP’s, good offense and the chance of having a real good OF for years to come.”
    If all of Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz can stay healthy. But who rounds out the rotation? They don’t have the arms in the system. What are they going to do, sign Bart Colon?
    I don’t see it in the OF either. Ellsbury may maintain this level. Or he may not. Crawford is sunk cost. And RF is a big unknown.
    A-Gon and Pedroia are worth building an offense around. The problem is they have too many holes elsewhere (SS, 3B, RF, LF, C, DH) at a time where there aren’t a great many players available in free agency and when this payroll is already bloated.
    90 wins is a great base to build off of. But they’re in a stacked division. The extra wild card will help.

    James YF September 30, 2011, 11:26 am
  • Edes is reporting that Francona told his staff last night that he would not be returning. Wow.
    If the Sox have even a .500 September, he’s back in 2012. Amazing how these things happen.

    Paul SF September 30, 2011, 11:35 am
  • John, I would say we don’t disagree much at all. I think it is nuanced. First, it is very possible that Tito’s tenure ending is natural, that “losing the clubhouse” is the same as his system or personality not working for the players in-house. Conversely, it could be that Theo failed to give Tito the “right” players for his system. Or, that players changed and no longer felt that their deference to the manager was necessary. In every case these are problems, and I think that like with most things in life the truth involves elements of all of those parts. Some prima donna-ism, some fatigue on the manager’s part, some poor matchmaking by the front office. All contribute. I still stand my ground on “chemistry”. It is largely optical, volumetric when begat by success and lacking when magnified by failure. I don’t worry about it all too much (that is not to say it is irrelevant).
    I am also with you on the “clusterfuck” thing. The end of the season results themselves may have been such a thing, but this situation with the manager is only as bad as what the front office does to solve it. If they do a good job then there will be a transition, a change, an improvement potentially. If they do a poor job then, well, things will turn out badly. There is just no way of knowing. This ownership chose Francona, they can certainly choose well again.

    SF September 30, 2011, 11:40 am
  • James, please. You’re grasping at straws.
    It will all come out. It always does.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 11:42 am
  • James, who is to say Ortiz wouldn’t take a discount to stay in Boston? Is it that crazy of a statement? By all accounts the dude loves Boston, the team, the fans and he’s a vet. If he was 26-28 getting his first big deal I’d lean towards what you are saying, but…
    “If all of Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz can stay healthy.”
    If CC goes down (God forbid) then where are the Yankees? You can’t deal in what ifs because you do that for all teams. Beckett, Lester, Buchholz are as good a trio as there is in the game sans Hamels, Halladay, Lee. That’s a pretty good jumping off point.
    You cannot write off Crawford just because. Nothing says he’s done or that he cannot repeat his productive seasons. His decline or adversity were not due to his legs or age, a bounceback is probable. Crawford, Ellsbury…Reddick/Kalish, maybe a FA, that’s a pretty good outfield regardless.
    The core of the Red Sox is more than Pedroia and Adrian, that’s just not a fair statement. This is a STILL a very good team.

    John - YF September 30, 2011, 1:18 pm
  • “You’re grasping at straws.”
    Ortiz was on the 2004 team. If he’s not a leader of this team, who is? Wakefield?
    Looking at the folks with the most seniority – Ortiz, Wakefield, Youkilis, Beckett – which one of those guys should take the blame? And which one can they easily get rid of?
    I agree that Francona should have the full support of ownership. They might think they bought the right talent, but it needs to gel. It sounds like they’ve never given him that support. But changing the manager does cover up nicely for the fact that there’s little they can do to improve next year’s club. Another bridge year….three in a row.
    “Thank God I’m in grad school and was too busy to do much more than read box scores for the past four weeks.”
    Again, what!? The best drama in the sport and you guys had something better to do?

    James YF September 30, 2011, 1:45 pm
  • “You’re grasping at straws.”
    Ortiz was on the 2004 team. If he’s not a leader of this team, who is? Wakefield?
    Looking at the folks with the most seniority – Ortiz, Wakefield, Youkilis, Beckett – which one of those guys should take the blame? And which one can they easily get rid of?
    I agree that Francona should have the full support of ownership. They might think they bought the right talent, but it needs to gel. It sounds like they’ve never given him that support. But changing the manager does cover up nicely for the fact that there’s little they can do to improve next year’s club. Another bridge year….three in a row.
    “Thank God I’m in grad school and was too busy to do much more than read box scores for the past four weeks.”
    Again, what!? The best drama in the sport and you guys had something better to do?

    James YF September 30, 2011, 1:46 pm
  • I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 1:57 pm
  • James, much of what you say might carry more weight if it wasn’t just another smart-ass way for you to gloat.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 1:58 pm
  • “Again, what!? The best drama in the sport and you guys had something better to do?”
    This is just an asshole thing to say. Some people have lives, jobs, families.

    I'mBillMcNeal September 30, 2011, 2:03 pm
  • “If CC goes down (God forbid) then where are the Yankees?”
    JOHN!!!! Shut it man!!! ;)

    krueg September 30, 2011, 2:05 pm
  • “James, much of what you say might carry more weight if it wasn’t just another smart-ass way for you to gloat.”
    After this past off-season, we’re not allowed to gloat?
    The best team ever!

    James YF September 30, 2011, 2:06 pm
  • “Some people have lives, jobs, families.”
    Not me. Just sports.
    Of course my wife spends 10 hours a day in a lab and I live in science-forsaken Memphis.
    :)

    krueg September 30, 2011, 2:06 pm
  • “The best team ever!”
    Dude, I don’t think any of the SF’s on here were the ones saying that, nor are they the SF’s we meet on the street and want to knock out. Come on man. Take it easy on them and take it out on the randoms in the bars!

    krueg September 30, 2011, 2:07 pm
  • “Some people have lives, jobs, families.”
    Don’t we all?
    Only fanatics post comments on baseball blogs. Only sheer fanatics run baseball blogs.
    Somehow if it were the Yankees collapsing and the Sox cruising I think there would have been a different “enthusiasm” level here.

    James YF September 30, 2011, 2:09 pm
  • Like Krueg says, the media were the ones calling this the best Sox team ever. Now, a lot of the mods picked the Red Sox to win the WS (including some YFs) but that’s much different than saying they were the best team ever.

    Atheose - SF September 30, 2011, 2:13 pm
  • ” who is to say Ortiz wouldn’t take a discount to stay in Boston? Is it that crazy of a statement?”
    Seriously? This was the guy who barged into a press conference because he was mad he lost an RBI. No, he’s looking for a multiyear deal. If the Sox give it to him, while letting Tito go, something is seriously wrong with Henry.
    “Beckett, Lester, Buchholz are as good a trio as there is in the game”
    None were healthy enough to throw 200 innings this year. When CC has trouble the Yankees will be too….unless they ride Garcia and Colon to victory! Like magical unicorns of the night!
    “You cannot write off Crawford just because. Nothing says he’s done or that he cannot repeat his productive seasons.”
    Have you seen his career OBP? That’s not a guy you invest big dollars in. Moreover, where was his vaunted defense? Can defense slump too? Cause people are killing him here for letting that ball drop. I don’t see how he ever escapes the fate of many before him – reviled, overpriced athlete. He could bounceback but it won’t be sustained. He has the exact opposite of old man skills.
    “This is a STILL a very good team.”
    Yes they are…in a very stacked division.

    James YF September 30, 2011, 2:16 pm
  • Krueg, my reason for saying it is that you can say that about any teams starting pitching. Even more so in the case of the Yankees.

    John - YF September 30, 2011, 2:18 pm
  • “Dude, I don’t think any of the SF’s on here were the ones saying that”
    They weren’t projected to win 103 games here? There’s was plenty of hoopla here too. But yes, I’m partly venting at the media as a whole. I saw a team a few games better than 2009.
    Can someone throw up a ALDS thread? I’m done ragging on the Sox. Plus, we have all off-season for that!

    James YF September 30, 2011, 2:21 pm
  • I guess time will tell on Ortiz. How many teams need a DH? Now how many of those teams are going to be able to spend Boston $ on a DH…gut feeling he takes less than what he’s actually worth to stay in Beantown.
    Who knows if they pitch 600+ innings in 2012, not me, as my crystal ball is broken. All things equal they have the best 1-3 in the AL. You might get some sh*t from Angels fans, but all in all it’s pretty close.
    He’s never been an OBP guy, big deal. Plenty of really good players have succeeded without being high OBP guys. Sure I’d obviously prefer my 100+ million dollar OF’r to get on base more than 35% of the time, but he has other skilled areas that offset that. If you said his SB’s and XBH’s were down and he was 32, I’d say you are right, they are never going to return to such levels…but he’s not 32 and his legs have not gone yet. He may be overpaid, no arguing there, but he’s certainly not washed up just yet. Let me see one more season before I make up my mind.
    Listen where the Sox will finish next season or how good the Rays and Blue Jays will be next season is not the point. The point is they are still prepared to be a very good time for the at least the near future, regardless of the division. They are not suddenly going to sink to the bottom of the AL east. Come on man.

    John - YF September 30, 2011, 2:30 pm
  • I know John…just messing with you.
    OK, time to head home from work and begin the pregame festivities.
    The game thread should be very interesting this evening.
    Go.
    Yankees.

    krueg September 30, 2011, 2:39 pm
  • AG, paging AG…I started to put one up but remembering back to 2009 and my unlucky streak caused be to stop. Plus if they win then, knowing me, I will have to do one for each of the games going forward. See you tonight Krueg. Going to try and comment and keep the book at the same time.

    John - YF September 30, 2011, 2:44 pm
  • John,
    Show me the superstars in game’s history who have thrived with a OBP south of 33% and into their 30s. And if he’s not getting on base, he’s not stealing bags. His other skill- defense – also went missing this year. Like I said, I could see him bouncing back for a year or two of his contract. But he’ll still be reviled here in Boston. JD Drew is and he helped them win a ring with far better numbers than Crawford has ever produced.
    No one said they sinking to the bottom. But I wouldn’t be surprised to see a fourth place season before we see a first place season again. Injuries are one thing. Injuries with no depth ready on the farm is something else entirely. To escape from 2008, the Yankees had youth and cash. The Sox only have cash.

    James YF September 30, 2011, 2:46 pm
  • Off the top of my head, without digging I’d say Alfonso Soriano. I think we are are somewhat saying similar things, you just in a more abrasive/aggressive fashion. I just want to see what he does in 2012 before I cast judgement. Boston and New York are tough places to play, especially when you are coming from Tampa. I will agree that I don’t see anyway he is a superstar type player by the end of the contract, but I think everyone already knew that when they signed him.
    I don’t see them as a 4th place team. The still have more pieces than the Jays and Orioles and that’s before any off-season moves. When Orioles finally get a pitching prospect to pan out I will maybe start to worry, until then they are an old, slow team with very little pitching. The Jays have more pitching than the Orioles, but definitely not enough to compete for 3rd place next year. Henderson Alvarez was a nice surprise, but they still lack an ace.

    John - YF September 30, 2011, 2:54 pm
  • Torii Hunter
    Jermaine Dye
    Adrian Beltre
    Raul Mondesi
    Matt Williams
    Joe Carter
    Just a few I found right away…All with OBP of .330 or lower

    John - YF September 30, 2011, 3:03 pm
  • Without digging, that’s a fantastic comp to Sori. He has significantly more power than Crawford ever has. It’s just amazing that the Cubs gave him that contract. Let’s not forget that playing on turf helped Crawford by 50 points in OPS.
    You don’t think Romero is an ace?

    James YF September 30, 2011, 3:11 pm
  • You had it best with Sori (also a LF with speed). Still, that’s not exactly an inspiring list. Crazy to think the Sox are going to be paying him $20m for each of the next six years. And SFs will never forgive him for this year and how it ended. They’re crucifying him here.

    James YF September 30, 2011, 3:17 pm
  • Based on the relative performance of Julio Lugo to the level of hate I had for him, one might think that Carl Crawford would be living in the sub-cellar of my Sox doghouse. For some reason he isn’t. Despite his poor performance and high salary, I never developed any animosity for him.
    Maybe it’s irrational hope that the player we saw this year was the outlier of all outliers? Or a hope that his offense will surely improve next year (BABIP regression alone would take care of a lot) and his defense, well, who knows. But I haven’t been on his case nearly like one might expect, and I think the SFs at this site have NOT been on him with nastiness like we (I?) were on Lugo. Maybe it is denial, who knows.

    SF September 30, 2011, 3:43 pm
  • Damn it, man, take down your ALDS thread right now. You have no right! NO RIGHT!

    James YF September 30, 2011, 3:49 pm
  • Can someone throw up a ALDS thread?
    Be careful what you wish for. We got Carl Crawford, you got a gamer. You win.

    SF September 30, 2011, 3:51 pm
  • I refuse to acknowledge that gamer. It’s an obvious jinx effort. Geeerrrrrbiilllllll!

    James YF September 30, 2011, 3:53 pm
  • I would say that we SFs have provided pretty good material for YFs these last few weeks – anything we touch turns to Yankee gold. Again, be careful…

    SF September 30, 2011, 3:56 pm
  • No way! Your collapse was all your own. The Yankees simply took care of their business. For once, Yankees-Sox took a back seat to Sox-Rays.
    No, no Yankee post-season push begins with SF leading the way. I refuse! You take your “luck” and find a Tigers blog. You guys can unite on your Yankee hatred!

    James YF September 30, 2011, 4:00 pm
  • SF choosing/having to write a Yanks gamer thread for the ALDS is a delicious treat for me. I know a good thing when I see it. I’m going to email Nick, John and IH just to make sure they see it.

    attackgerbil September 30, 2011, 5:17 pm
  • Noooooooooooooooo!
    Okay, I trust you, AG, but I shall not participate.
    Mmmmm, baked beans are the best. You use brown sugar or molasses? Hopefully with some ribs?

    James YF September 30, 2011, 5:25 pm
  • Molasses! And Brats for adults, wieners for kids.

    attackgerbil September 30, 2011, 5:42 pm
  • Mmmmmmm, beans and brats…
    We’re doing smoked turkey thighs here. Those beans sound so darn good I just wish I had soaked them last night!
    Damn, this Matt Moore kid is good. And how ballsy of the Rays to start him? I would not be surprised at all to see them come out of the East.

    James YF September 30, 2011, 6:03 pm
  • gerbil beans
    serves 8
    3 cups drained white beans (or 2 cans not drained)
    3 cups drained pinto beans (or 2 cans drained)
    1 1/2 lb chopped bacon
    1 large onion medium-dice (at least 2 cups-ish)
    2 large cloves garlic minced
    1 tsp kosher salt
    1 tsp black pepper
    1 tsp powdered ginger
    1 c hot water
    1/2 c blackstrap molasses
    1 can (6 oz) tomato paste
    2 T dijon or stone-ground mustard
    (you can throw in a smoked ham bone/turkey bone in there as well but mind the salt)
    Preheat oven to 350
    Get a dutch oven hot over medium heat
    Add the bacon, onion, and garlic and saute for 5 minutes, stirring regularly (don’t over-brown anything)
    Add the rest of the ingredients and bring to a bare simmer on high
    Bake 350 covered for 30 minutes, uncovered for 30 minutes more

    attackgerbil September 30, 2011, 7:14 pm
  • That’s good if the kids are eating. I like to make it substantially more spicy if it is just for adults… smoked paprika and lots more black pepper typically.

    attackgerbil September 30, 2011, 7:28 pm
  • Oh man that sounds sooooo good. Enjoy!

    James YF September 30, 2011, 7:30 pm
  • I am drinking dinner. :)

    krueg September 30, 2011, 8:22 pm
  • So I guess that now that Tito is gone, those other coaches SF listed will also be gone? Maybe a few players as well.
    For me, he will go down as one of the best Red Sox manager ever.

    BillsBurgSF September 30, 2011, 10:56 pm
  • This whole thing is just one big embarrassment.
    Many have the that the Red Sox have become what they abhore, i.e., the bloated, entitled and underachieving Yankees of 2001-2008.
    Nope. They’re worse.
    The front office values spin, lip service and saving face over honesty and true accountability. I’m yet to hear from any player who wishes to accept responsibility, although this is all still fresh and that might take a bit of time.
    And the saddest thing is that the guy to right the ship isn’t walking though that door. He left yesterday.
    (I can’t believe Cafardo is endorsing Valentine. William “Billy Ray” Valentine would be a better option.)
    Maybe it’s not as bad an I’m interpreting it to be and maybe it’s a relatively easy fix. I’m not in the clubhouse and I don’t know.
    But as I said, much worse than the disappointment I felt over the collapse, I’m far more embarrassed by how it happened.
    Who would have thought that the Bruins were a better example of a model franchise?

    I'mBillMcNeal October 1, 2011, 11:49 am
  • IBM, Pedroia has owned it, predictably. Classy player, but we all knew that.

    SF October 1, 2011, 12:25 pm
  • I don’t see how a large part of this season isn’t on Theo and his crew of nerds. Beltre had another monster season. If he’s the Sox 3B, they’re still playing. Whoever thought it was a good idea to replace him with Youkilis was looking at spreadsheets not baseball. Worse, apparently Youkilis was pissed about the A-Gon trade. Then they go out and spend another $50M on a guy who is worse than Beltre – offensively and defensively, but at a much less important position.
    For all the previous financial discipline and for them to just blow it up on Crawford makes no sense. Of course guys are going to be selfish now. One of their teammates is collecting a check for $20M/year while looking like he needs to re-learn how to swing and catch in AAA.

    James YF October 1, 2011, 12:40 pm
  • “Theo and his crew of nerds”
    Nice pejorative comment.
    “Beltre had another monster season. If he’s the Sox 3B, they’re still playing. Whoever thought it was a good idea to replace him with Youkilis was looking at spreadsheets not baseball.”
    Great observation, Captain Obvious.
    Frankly, you are yet to post anything insightful and thoughtful about this situation. It seems as it your goal is simply to continue to take jabs at a team you don’t like.

    I'mBillMcNeal October 1, 2011, 1:20 pm
  • The fallout from The Collapse has helped cement some opinions of Sox for me. While there are plenty of punks who I don’t think anyone actually likes (Beckett, Lackey, Papelbon), there were some surprising new inclusions. From Adrian blaming the schedule, and possibly whatever deity he worships, instead of taking personal responsibility, to Ortiz publicly questioning his manager about who he should be starting, to Youkilis apparently being a clubhouse cancer – it casts a lot of bad light, which of course is to be expected. Not too many come out looking good in these situations.
    But one player I have actually come to grudgingly respect is Pedroia. No, I still don’t think he’ll last much beyond his 30th birthday, and yes, I do think he suffers from the Red Sox epidemic of blaming umpires for every called third strike, but the guy is an upstanding individual, not to mention pretty funny to boot. Good on him. Maybe he’ll request a trade to wherever Tito manages next.

    AndrewYF October 1, 2011, 3:33 pm
  • I had a 1600 SAT. Nothing against nerds, but there’s more to baseball than numbers. The real question is how they could so greatly overvalue Crawford and undervalue Beltre. Do you have an answer, smartass?
    How’s this for thoughtful and insightful:
    It came down to Papi or Tito. Ownership chose Papi. They’ll re-sign him for three years and double-down on the current roster. They’ll trade Youkilis, likely to the NL, for pitching help. Depending on how the Brewers finish up, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Youkilis for Marcum deal, for instance.
    By the way, I have a hard time believing you wouldn’t be taking “jabs” at the Yankees if the situation was reversed. The Sox had the greatest stretch collapse in the sport’s history. Of course we should examine the details.

    James YF October 1, 2011, 4:35 pm
  • Perhaps the funniest post yet from Abraham:
    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2011/10/red_sox_tissues.html
    He’s spot on about Sweet Caroline too. Why play that song every game as the Titanic was sinking?

    James YF October 1, 2011, 4:48 pm

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