Who’s In Charge?!

Rumors flying that the Sox and their GM by committee have acquired Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell for some of that up and coming talent.  Thoughts will be offered when and if this gets confirmed, and by multiple sources. 

55 comments… add one

  • Gammons’ word isn’t good enough for you, SF?
    We live in skeptical times. Sigh.

    Sam November 21, 2005, 8:22 pm
  • I saw it posted on the Red Sox page of Boston.com… so thats why I’m skeptical. The last time I trusted that page Theo resigned with Boston. In the words of a great American: DOH!
    If this goes down the rotation Sox will have the Yankees over a barrel.
    Come on, SF, tell us what you think!

    mattymatty November 21, 2005, 10:54 pm
  • Well, this is a good one for the sox. Dammit!

    Nick November 21, 2005, 11:02 pm
  • Schilling, Beckett and Papelbon as our 1-3. What will the Yankees do to counter this one? So, how long till spring training again???

    mattymatty November 21, 2005, 11:21 pm
  • You mean the Schilling with the 5.50 ERA?

    Nick November 21, 2005, 11:28 pm
  • yeah, you’re right Nick. We ALL expect Schilling to have the same numbers this year as he did in the injury riddled 2005.
    He’s a terrible pitcher, and even when he’s healthy and winning twenty games, he’s probably overrated. I’d much rather have the likes of Pavano or Wright out there than a healthy Schill.
    What the hell was mattymatty thinking there?

    Brad-sf November 21, 2005, 11:39 pm
  • Or the Schilling of the never recovering ankle?
    This may be a good trade, but

    o  Will Boston get the new Lowell or the old?
    o  Nobody knows how good, or bad, Papelbon is over a season.
    o  Wells is leaving.
    o  Schilling, Beckett, Clement, Wakefield, Papelbon doesn’t scare me. And who’s first? (Or third, or second — or in center?)

    Of course we have to wonder what the Gator will do with the Big Unit.

    john yf November 21, 2005, 11:39 pm
  • Nope, I’m talking about the one with a 4.02 ERA in six games in September and October including beating the Yankees in Yankee Stadium (I’m sure you remember that). In all fairness, will Schilling be the same guy he was before ankle surgery? Of course I don’t know, but I think a 4.00 ERA is a pretty bet for next season based on those last six starts and the ten seasons that came before them.

    mattymatty November 21, 2005, 11:40 pm
  • The previous post should have read “pretty fair bet”

    mattymatty November 21, 2005, 11:41 pm
  • May as well take shots in the dark at Papelbon after he done nothing but absolutely sit guys down. I wonder how good he’s going to be over the period of five years. Ten?
    Even if Wells stayed, which he won’t, but what are the odds Boston makes it through another year without serious injury to his back or leg?
    I know John ate some crow with the Wells to the DL thing this year, but I would not want to make the bet for a second year.
    And, is it really a concern as to who is going to play the field for the Red Sox? Do you really think they are going to start the season with a group of schmucks they got off the trash heap?
    Well, that worked for the Yankees this year, so who knows.

    Brad-sf November 22, 2005, 12:06 am
  • Also:
    How is this even a question when it comes to being a good trade or not?
    Boston gets one of the great NL pitchers (and WS MVP, remember Yankee fans?) and a guy who has averaged 95 RBI for 5 of the past six seasons.
    Yeah, I think this “may” be a good trade, John.

    Brad November 22, 2005, 12:08 am
  • But, I may be biased since I have been in love with the career of Beckett since I saw him sitting down Yankees with uncommonly good precision in late October.
    I love it. I really do. I love the K-Rod enthusiasm this guy shows, and I love the fact that if the plate is a little crowded he may clear it out with a 99mph frozen rope.
    Did I mention the WS thing?
    Yeah, he’s good.

    Brad-sf November 22, 2005, 12:13 am
  • I like this trade, but is anyone worried about Beckett’s numbers? Just to play devil’s advocate (also known as a yankee fan) Beckett’s K/9 have dropped each of the last three years, and he pitches in the NL which means that he gets to face pitchers once or twice which I pads those numbers. Also he pitches in a good pitchers park and Fenway is not a good pitchers park. Its not a good hitters park either (seriously, check the numbers) but it won’t supress runs like Pro Player or Bankrupt.com or whatever they’re calling that stadium in Miami this week.
    Of course, he has quite the injury history as well, though his total innings has gone up to a career high 180something last season (sorry, don’t have the exact numbers in front of me).
    Does any of this worry any other Sox Fans (or SF)?

    mattymatty November 22, 2005, 12:17 am
  • Do you remember the start AFTER Schilling beat the Yanks? Somebody (Tampa Bay?) KILLED him. His comment was, “I guess they watched the tapes of the Yankee game.”
    To make a long story short, he uncharacteristically threw lots of first ball fastball strikes against the Yanks, who let him get away with it. The next team jumped on him.
    I’m not happy to see him hurt, but anyone but a Sox fan has to wonder if he’ll ever be Schilling again. He’s been through one mediocre, erratic season, and age is not on his side.
    If Boston’s number one starter and ace has a 4+ era, I won’t be worried about the rotation. (or Foulke, probably)
    And, is it really a concern as to who is going to play the field for the Red Sox? Do you really think they are going to start the season with a group of schmucks they got off the trash heap?
    You think it’s easy to go out and fill 45% of your starting positions? (55% if they trade Manny) The Sox have a lot of questions.
    Maybe Theo didn’t like the answers to those questions. It’s hard to win a pennant.

    john yf November 22, 2005, 12:31 am
  • Beckett’s injury problems are related primarily to his blister problems, something most pitchers grow out of. Actually, his stay on the injured list has kept his innings down. Unlike a lot of young ace pitchers, he’s not been overused. His k rate is still very good. I’m a Yanks fan and I’m not going to play devil’s advocate here. This is a good deal for the sox.

    Nick November 22, 2005, 12:33 am
  • Brad,
    You don’t judge anything in baseball by one game.
    The questions about this trade are

    if Beckett’s an ace
    which Mike Lowell you’re getting

    The Marlins tried hard to send Lowell to a pennant contender before the deadline. The word then was that the old Mike Lowell is gone forever. We’ll see.
    I don’t know that he won’t be good. You certainly don’t know that all the scout’s opinions about his decline are wrong.
    Read most of the stories about the trade, and you’ll see that the consensus is that the Marlins are desparate to dump him.

    john yf November 22, 2005, 12:41 am
  • Brad,
    You don’t judge anything in baseball by one game.
    The questions about this trade are

    if Beckett’s an ace
    which Mike Lowell you’re getting

    The Marlins tried hard to send Lowell to a pennant contender before the deadline. The word then was that the old Mike Lowell is gone forever. We’ll see.
    I don’t know that he won’t be good. You certainly don’t know that all the scout’s opinions about his decline are wrong.
    Read most of the stories about the trade, and you’ll see that the consensus is that the Marlins are desparate to dump him.
    And weren’t you one of the Sox fans who pointed to Ramirez as a sure future Hall of Famer?

    john yf November 22, 2005, 12:43 am
  • I agree Matty, but I’m not going to read too much into it. I know that both he and Burnett were not happy in Florida, so who knows how much of that contributed to the injury thing. Also, I know that Beckett has some pretty bad blister problems on his snap finger.
    I still take him for his big game, and his SO/IP ratio has remained unchanged ofer theat same period of time. His walks per inning is slightly better over this last year, and his pre-post all star game numbers are almost identical. His home runs are also down this past year, which I can’t read too much into playing in the NL East, but something to look at just the same.
    If anything, I’d be a little bit worried about his record away from Florida (5-6) while going 10-2 at home. He’s a power pitcher, and when he’s getting hit, he really gets hit. Just like all of them.
    He’s obviously good enough to win in any city.
    Also, I remember the same arguments coming from everyone re: Clement last year, and he pretty much shut everyone up until the head shot.
    Let’s be Happy! The Sox have obtained one of my favorite players!
    PS – John, did you get your check yet?

    Brad-SF November 22, 2005, 12:44 am
  • If the Sox get the ’05 Lowell thats ok, as long as they get the ’05 Beckett. Lowell can play third if his numbers pick up, but if not he can sit the bench and collect a paycheck. Next year Beckett will earn about $4M. Lowell will earn $9M. Even if the Sox get nothing out of Lowell ever, $13M is not an outragious price to pay for a top of the rotation starter, which Beckett is supposed to be. And if Lowell turns into something servicable, or the Sox eat his contract and trade him for someone servicable then all the better.
    I’ll say this about Lowell: usually you don’t have a guy drop off a cliff like that unless there is some sort of injury or problem of some kind. The fact that he won a gold glove at third last season is proof on some level that he wasn’t seriously injured. Not that I wish pain on the guy, but that makes it much more UNlikely IMO that Lowell revives his career.

    mattymatty November 22, 2005, 12:50 am
  • Um, John if you could find that HOF link re: Hanley Ramirez that would be great!
    Is it anywhere near the link that you used to cite all of the money issues in the previous threads?
    Also, it makes some sense on paper to use Ramirez in this deal. You’re getting a good pitcher, if not an ace, and a guy who HAS had great numbers for most of his career for a man without a position.
    While I don’t like to see Hanley go, if he’s never going to play, he deserves to have his shot. Just like Youkilis. I love Youkilis, but if the Sox were going to sign Mueller again, I’d want to use him in a trade because of the fact that he’s not going to ever play.
    Besides, it’s Beckett, and no matter how you spin it, he automatically becomes an intergral part of the rotation and a feared pitcher. I think opposing teams much rather face Arroyo than Beckett, no?
    PS – Arroyo to the pen with Timlin, Myers (hopefully), Hansen, and Foulke if healthy again? Could be nice if the pieces fall correctly. Big “if”, but I like it just the same.

    Brad-SF November 22, 2005, 12:56 am
  • Sox fans have to love this. Yeah, they dealt two top-tier prospects, but they get a legitimate ace, and a solid third baseman. As Nick points out, Beckett has not been overused, and his rate stats are excellent (the whole WS thing is over-rated, but it certainly doesn’t hurt.) With Manny and Ortiz sitting in the middle of the lineup (and pending a resolution of the CF situation), the Sox aren’t likely to be hurting for runs, no matter what Lowell does. Ramirez was blocked by Renteria at short. They kept their top young pitching prospects, or at least the ones closest to ML level.
    Who needs Theo?

    YF November 22, 2005, 12:58 am
  • I also remember another aging superstar getting absolutely shelled by the Rays and other less talented teams on several occasions this year. One which has an entire team and city on his back next year. Much like Schilling, he has a lot to prove this year. It’s going to be interesting between the two of them.
    I guess they watched the tape on him too.

    Brad-SF November 22, 2005, 1:01 am
  • The deal still isn’t confirmed, so I am gunshy (see Epstein, Theo) to comment. But I am with YF on this one. I see no reason why this isn’t a spectacular deal for the Red Sox. Gold Gloves aside (I disregard that award, as I have said previously), Lowell had a terrible year last year — but that was an anomaly, and we’ll see if the anomaly becomes a trend. But Beckett. Wow. That’s what you do with a strong farm system. You keep guys around (Lester, Hansen, Papelbon, Pedroia) and you trade other guys for proven, front-of-the-rotation players. Brilliant. The Sox still have plenty of bodies to move at a deadline, if necessary, even with the offloading of Sanchez and Ramirez. If Beckett flames out with injuries or Lowell stinks up the joint and Ramirez is the second coming of Ozzie Smith then I am sure there will be plenty of hand-wringing, but that will all be convenient Monday morning you-know-whating. This is, in theory, a fantastic deal for the Sox, particularly if Burnett goes to the Jays and the balance of power in the East perhaps begins to shift. The arms race is on (maybe!).

    SF November 22, 2005, 7:49 am
  • To me, trading for Beckett is like trading for Prior. They’re the same age, they’ve both proven that they can be dominant pitchers at the major league level, and they both are capable of being #1 starters for the next 5 years. This is a great deal. I wonder if the Yanks even inquired about Beckett, and I wonder if they had prospects that would have satisfied the Marlins.

    Nick November 22, 2005, 8:04 am
  • Brad,
    Here’s what you said on June 13:

    Agreed. Boston’s most important off season contract to ensure: Theo Epstein. Stick with what’s there, possibly get into the bullpen race with other teams that are contending, and worry about the starters that are in town already. Roger Clemens is the answer to nothing right now, and I am in no way whatsoever in favor of giving away any of the Sox good young players. For someone of the caliber of The Rocket, Boston would have to give away the likes of Alvarez, Hanley Ramirez, or even worse Youk (who has quietly become Beantown’s favorite son) – and none of that is worth it.

    And now it’s worth it because?
    Yes, Beckett is probably the best pitcher available. Is he better than Vasquez or Pavano? Pavano was 18 – 8, 3.00 in Miami. Of course Yankee fans are hoping he just had arm problems and an off year. Let’s not make Beckett a feared American League ace until we’ve seen more of him.

    john yf November 22, 2005, 8:30 am
  • Because Josh Beckett is 25 years old and making $4M and still arb-eligible, not a 40+ free agent making $20M a year. Come on, John, you’re not serious, are you?

    SF November 22, 2005, 8:31 am
  • Yeah, John, I think you’re reaching here. Beckett is as young as a prospect, and he has the added positive of being proven. The Sox didn’t sacrifice their future for a short-term solution.

    Nick November 22, 2005, 9:29 am
  • This move has all of us at youkdeathwatch.com very anxious. What can this mean for the GG of BBs? The word “bait” comes to mind. *sigh*
    It’s hard to see this as anything but a great move by the Sox. Someone’s earning his keep up there. Cash? Retort, please?

    Spidey November 22, 2005, 3:24 pm
  • Buster Olney says the Yankees are retorting by refusing to retort. Shorter Buster Olney?
    “The Yankees chose not to pursue Beckett at all and will not respond rashly because their farm system blows.”
    Read Buster in all his hideous glory here

    SF November 22, 2005, 3:37 pm
  • Wait a darn minute here!
    SF has gone crazy in his remarks about the fabled Yankee farm system!
    Do you not recall the near rookie of the Year winner hitting in the middle of one of the best lineups in baseball, and pitcher with the bad rotator cuff?
    Jeez, SF – memory is short.
    And yes, John, you really are reaching there. Rocket versus Beckett comparisons?
    You’re better than that every day of the week. Beckett is EASILY better than ANY FA pitcher on the market this year, and the Sox gave away things that they don’t need nor have a place to put them. You’ll notice they gave away nothing that is near full-time ML ready or waiting to fill a position later (Pedroia, Lester, Hansen…) and they STILL have Shoppach to shop if need be. Hopefully, he stays – at least until the trading deadline where the Sox can use him for good bullpen help if need be.
    PS – It’s now my firm belief that with Lowell in the lineup and at third, the Red Sox are not going to budge on the Damon issue and Manny stays. If Damon is not going to come back to earth for the Sox, I believe they are going to let him go and have Youk play first and lead off.
    Just my own thoughts on the issue.

    Brad-SF November 22, 2005, 3:50 pm
  • “Wait a darn minute here!
    SF has gone crazy in his remarks about the fabled Yankee farm system!
    Do you not recall the near rookie of the Year winner hitting in the middle of one of the best lineups in baseball, and pitcher with the bad rotator cuff?
    Jeez, SF – memory is short.”
    The sarcasm is unwarranted. The reports are that the Marlins approached the Yanks about Cano and Wang and another prospect for Beckett and Lowell, and the Yanks rebuffed the offer. Apparently, Florida felt that Cano and Wang were comparable to Ramirez and Sanchez (2 of the best 4 prospects in the boston system). Whether it was wise for the yanks to reject the offer is another thing. But they still do have some top-level talent in that farm system.

    Nick November 22, 2005, 4:26 pm
  • Well, I’m clearly no GM, but I’d rather have Sanchez and Ramirez (Hanley) than Wang and Cano. Just my opinion. The Yankees guys have done it in the Bigs, but I think the Sox guys (or Marlins guys?) have more potential and talent. Time will tell…

    mattymatty November 22, 2005, 6:05 pm
  • The whole “Marlins asked for Cano and Wang plus but the Yankees rejected it” smacks of Yankee propaganda to me. I have no basis for this claim, admittedly, other than it just sounds like an effort to make it appear as if the Yankees were players in the Beckett deal. At the very least, and from most reporting, it seems like the Yankees were never a factor, even if they did make a perfunctory phone call when they found out what was going down. Olney’s claims make it sound like (as per every story ever about a deal the Yankees got clotheslined on) it was the Yankees deal to make, regardless of who else was involved. I find this very hard to believe, considering Blalock was on the table from the Rangers as well.

    Sf November 22, 2005, 6:19 pm
  • Good point, SF. Ya know, I never heard about any Yankee involvement until I read it on this thread. Smacks of revisionism to me as well.

    mattymatty November 22, 2005, 6:32 pm
  • I’d guess that any team that deals with the Sox approaches the Yanks as a way of pushing up the asking price. I would, given the team’s entwined dealings (A-Rod, Contreras, Bernie, etc etc). So, it’s entirely plausible that the Marlins mentioned to the Yanks that the Sox were close to landing Beckett, and asked the Yanks about prospects like Cano, Wang, Duncan and Hughes. Whether they had a real interest in these players in unknowable. At the same time, I think Cashman is truly committed to rebuilding the farm system (and holding onto prospects in the process). He has said this publicly over and over again. And it’s entirely plausible that Beckett’s injury issues scared him away from truly entertaining offering the Yanks best prospects. To use SF’s word, there is a newfound organizational “ethos” toward player development. When Theo showed this committment, SF lauded the man. When Cashman does, there’s only silence.
    This leads to a question: Do you think if Theo was still around, this deal still gets done?

    Nick November 22, 2005, 7:25 pm
  • Very good question, Nick. I think the answer is that Epstein certainly would have strongly considered dealing from his strength, which is the farm system. So, yeah, I think he would have been at least involved in talks. If anything, the deal shows that despite the Sox’ postseason failure last year, the front office did a smart thing not dumping Hanley and/or others for a guy like Burnett at the deadline.
    Regarding the new Yankee “ethos”, as Olney points out correctly, the new ethos is born out of a hollow farm system, and trading Wang or Cano or Duncan would have crippled their already weak system. I don’t know why that’s such an accomplishment.

    SF November 22, 2005, 7:45 pm
  • wait a second. Theo refused to trade top notch prospects for the same reason. He came into a situation in which Duquette and previous GM’s had created a mess of a system. Theo recognized the situation and reversed it. Good job he did there.
    To point out the fact that Cashman presided over the farm’s decline is to ignore what has become clear this off-season: his pleas to develop from within were largely ignored by the boss during this decline. Now that he has more power, he’s showing that he’s committed to rebuilding the farm. Why refuse to recognize that Cash is acting like Theo did?

    Nick November 22, 2005, 8:32 pm
  • youkdeathwatch.com?
    The kid already has a first baseman’s mitt. As long as somebody tells him to keep it oiled this offseason, both he and his lovely OBP’s will be fine. He’ll still be a Sock next year, never you fear.

    Sam November 22, 2005, 8:55 pm
  • Well, Cashman has been the GM for several years, Nick, whereas Epstein inherited a terrible system and turned it around in an absolute flash. So who is blame for the destruction of the Yankees farm system? Was it the asleep-at-the-wheel Cashman? Or was it the Big Boss Man’s fault, who wouldn’t allow Cashman to do the smart thing? I can’t see how either scenario makes Cashman look good. Either he was responsible for the gutting of the minors, the decision maker who decided to void the developmental system given to him by Stick Michael, or, perhaps worse, he was a powerless flunky who has only now, after several years on the job, been given a small iota of decision making power. Which one is it?

    SF November 22, 2005, 8:56 pm
  • I think the Cashman-asleep-at-the-wheel bit is silly. I imagine that a major reason not to offer up cano, wang, and prospects would be that adding a 20 mil. dh to a team that has an 80 mil DH and a 170 mil third baseman may not be the best thing for a team that is well past it’s saturation point in spending.
    Beckett was a great piece for the Sox, who will still be contenders for the AL wildcard next year. However, the real winners are the marlins if only because 19 mil for two years gets real heavy when it’s dead weight.
    Beckett…well, I can’t wait for the commercial where Josh and Curt try to out theatricize one another with bloody socks and gloves in an attempt to make the final cut for the dramatic story line intro to the first Yanks-Sox FOX game of the week.

    walein November 22, 2005, 9:33 pm
  • Soxaholix has a two-sided look at the trade today, and reports that Sons of Sam Horn has a lot of negative comment. Do Sox fans only admit what they’re really thinking when there are no Yankee fans around? BradSF you’re not only contradicting yourself, you’re aggressively contradicting yourself.
    Soxaholix also quotes Ortiz saying that Manny’s definitely going. (Of course he also said Pedro was definitely staying.)
    That’s all for the Soxaholix quotes.

    john yf November 22, 2005, 10:23 pm
  • SF, it seems to me that Cashman was in favor early in his tenure with the Yanks (first 3 years, 3 championships-compare that to Theo’s 3 years: 1 championship and a soap operatic departure from New England)Then 2001 happened, and Georgie kind of went ape shit, and turned more to Tampa people, and over-ruling Cashman on matters. Cashman was bound to a contract, plus he had a young family, plus he was loyal to the team that gave him his start (in this day of three year mercenaries does that not count for something?). So he stuck it out, while his organization turned away from its farm system, and its usually sound decision-making. At the end of that time, he worked his way back into favor, getting more power in the deal. And now, with him at the helm, he’s begun implementing a plan to develop more players from the system. Tino’s gone, and Andy Philips takes his place. Cano and Wang are near untouchable. He’s slashing payroll, avoiding MIke Lowell type contracts, etc. Is he not acting like a good general manager?

    Nick November 22, 2005, 10:25 pm
  • SF —
    If I understand you correctly, you’re saying the reason we know Beckett will do better in the AL than Pavano is because he’s younger?
    Two years ago, everyone thought Pavano was the best of the Marlin pitchers, better than Beckett and Burnett, no? Vasquez had a 3.24 era .
    Gammon says Beckett is going to be great. I don’t know that he’s not, but it’s like because Yankee fans are around the Sox fans don’t say what they really think.

    john yf November 22, 2005, 10:39 pm
  • John, I am not sure where the confusion is here. I mean, really, did you actually read what you wrote yourself? You cited Brad’s post about why he thought it was a good thing for the Sox to steer clear of acquiring a player like Roger Clemens for prospects mid-season, and asked why it was any different now with the acquisition of Beckett. Just to re-explain from my standpoint and in response to your question, the difference is that Beckett is 25 (vs. Clemens 40+) and that Beckett is being paid $4M (vs. Clemens’ 20+) and that Beckett is arbitration-eligible and Sox’ property for the coming two years minimum (vs. Clemens pending free agency). Pavano has nothing to do with anything. At all. And that’s why I never mentioned his name even once.

    SF November 22, 2005, 10:50 pm
  • First Schilling and now Beckett:
    “The 24-year-old Beckett — a George Bush conservative whose other loves include deer hunting and country singer Kenny Chesney — had been dating Fox Sports’ The Best Damn Sports Show Period regular Leeann Tweeden for most of this year.”
    from some article I saw on Dirt Dogs. At least Mike Mussina’s a Democrat.

    Nick November 22, 2005, 10:59 pm
  • Or, Nick, you could look at it this way: Cashman inherited a roster that was already maturing (actually, pretty much fully mature), and he had almost no major player development decisions to make; his major responsibility was to work with scouts on the drafting and replenishment of the minor league system vacated by Rivera, Posada, Williams, Jeter, etc. (none of whom I might remind you he had anything to do with drafting). In the process of those first few years, he drafted poorly and traded away the few chits he had and failed to restock the minors (with the assistance of some bad scouting, of course). So now the Yankees are bottoming out (as much as division winners can “bottom out”, of course), and even Steinbrenner can see it, that even a team as fearsome as the Yankees can’t buy a farm system. Seriously, I don’t see Steinbrenner giving Cashman “power” as any indication of Cashman’s past prowess, or of validation of his philosophy. I see it as a necessity borne out of five years of pretty bad player drafting and development, coupled with some overpriced free agent signings (that may or may not have been Cashman’s idea, but whichever one it was it’s not good for BC).

    SF November 22, 2005, 11:02 pm
  • Jeez, Nick, it took you way too long to dig that up – I saw that this morning and was hoping nobody here would notice.
    At least John Henry’s a Democrat (and no ex-felon, either!).

    SF November 22, 2005, 11:04 pm
  • ‘…a George Bush conservative whose other loves include deer hunting and country singer Kenny Chesney…’
    D’oh. Nice catch, Nick. He and Schilling’ll be tight as lice.

    Spidey November 22, 2005, 11:23 pm
  • Tyler Kepner’s column in tomorrow’s Times goes at the topic of whether this signals a sea change in the Yankees’ ethos with the same kind of logical mumbo jumbo that we see here. In just the course of the first few paragraphs he states that:
    – The Yankees had almost no chance at ever getting Beckett
    – that their lack of attempts to get the ungettable Beckett shows they have truly changed.
    – even though they may have made attempts or inquiries, albeit half-assed, to get Beckett
    Everyone at once: HUH!??!?!

    SF November 22, 2005, 11:36 pm
  • Man, I’d sure love to know how I’m contradicting (aggressively even) myself?

    Brad-SF November 23, 2005, 1:14 am
  • OK – Beckett will be the greatest pitcher ever, and this was a fantastic trade. Schilling will have a 1.25 era next year and the body of a 25 year old. The Sox have the greatest farm system ever and will crush the Yankees for the next 25 years, winning 27 World Series in that time. All Sox fans are right all the time, even when they contradict themselves and speak out of both sides of their mouth.
    Is that about it?

    john yf November 23, 2005, 9:06 am
  • Oh and two other things –

    Watch for Pavano to beat Beckett next year, mano a mano,
    Mike Lowell is overpaid, declining at the plate, and a traffic jam on the bases.

    As the Yankees have discovered, basecloggers can be a problem in the playoffs.

    john yf November 23, 2005, 9:19 am
  • John, you just don’t get it. Something is haywire. I don’t want to come off as hectoring, but you really do a disservice to your own critiques by first misunderstanding the facts of certain situations (i.e. the whole A-Rod is being paid 6M by the Yanks thing) or by transmogrifying other people’s positions and written statements into different, unrelated ideas (Pavano vs. Beckett? Where did you get that from? Schilling’s 2006 performance? Eveb Brad-SF says Schill “has something to prove next year”, hardly an overconfident prediction of a pending Cy Young). It’s baffling, frankly, the depths of your logical misfirings, and it doesn’t serve you well.
    Try answering three simple questions about this deal, which is the basis for any and all assessments of the trade, if and when it goes through: first, does it improve the Red Sox, for the short term and the long term? Second, does it compromise their farm system? Third, does it compromise their 2006 roster? Answer them without involving the Yankees, in any way. The answers are quite simple, I think.

    SF November 23, 2005, 9:48 am
  • sf, can’t you just believe my myth? Afterall, history is an agreed upon fiction. Cashman is a redemptive figure, who’s arrived to bring the Yanks back to glory. Believe the hype!

    Nick November 23, 2005, 1:08 pm
  • John,
    I’d take the time to point out how outrageously silly your post was, but SF beat me to it.
    I’ve never said ANY of those things.
    But to be sure, Beckett is the best pitcher to switch uni’s this winter.
    I know you are upset at this little deal the Sox have ended up falling into, but to start twisting my words to suit your argument is below you.
    When you get my ten dollars that I sent you, head down to the CVS and pick up a pair of those cheap reading glasses. You are obviously having a little trouble seeing the words on the screen.
    Just kidding John, don’t get those Yankee underoos in a bunch.

    Brad-SF November 23, 2005, 7:47 pm

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