Yank-ing Their Chain

Hmmm.

Mark Teixeira sat down with his wife on Dec. 12 to have dinner … And finally, she said, `I want you to be a Yankee.' So that's when it was done. And once we got the contract figured out, it was a no-brainer." …

The timing of his decision might be news to the Boston Red Sox, Los Angeles Angels, Baltimore Orioles and Washington Nationals, who also sought to sign Teixeira. He met with Red Sox officials on Dec. 18.

"When everyone's kind of around the same contract, there was no rush for me to make a decision," he said. …

On Dec. 22, Cashman called Teixeira's agent, Scott Boras, and the following day made a $160 million, eight-year proposal. Cashman thought until 11 a.m. on Dec. 23 that Boston was the favorite, then told co-chairman Hal Steinbrenner after hearing Boras' questions that the Yankees were the "lead dog." By 1:30 p.m., he had a deal.

Boras said the Red Sox had no cause to complain.

"I think Boston knows that they got good-faith proposals and they were given proposals, which means if accepted, the player would have signed the proposal," he said. "If teams reject them, they cannot in any way suggest that they were strung along."

Unless, of course, Boras invites the Red Sox to Texas under the pretense of making a deal, then gives them an offer he knows they won't accept six days after Teixeira has already made his decision.

Boy, that new Yankee sure gets more and more likable every day, doesn't he?

96 comments… add one

  • Tyler Kepner has these details whihc shed more light:
    Sometime after the meeting — Cashman was not sure when — the Yankees made a six- or seven-year offer for $20 million per season that Boras did not accept. The Yankees pulled the offer, and Cashman was unable to convince his boss, Hal Steinbrenner, that Teixeira was worth a longer contract than C. C. Sabathia, who signed for seven years and $161 million.
    But Cashman was trying, and he let Boras know that. With the Red Sox unwilling to guarantee $180 million for eight years — or $176 million for eight, and two options that could have brought the total to $220 million over 10 years — the Yankees had a chance.
    Teixeira said he decided on Dec. 12, in a dinner conversation with his wife, to make the Yankees his first choice if all offers were equal. Yet as late as 11 a.m. on Dec. 23, the Yankees had not made another offer. Boras wanted an answer by 1 p.m. that day, and Cashman said he expected the Red Sox to make the winning bid.
    Fearful of that possibility, Steinbrenner finally authorized the magic numbers Teixeira and Boras wanted: eight years for $22.5 million per season.

    Sounds like the Sox were in it, and the Yanks were out, until the very end. Let’s say the only thing separating the offers is a no-trade clause. Should the Sox have caved?

    Rob January 7, 2009, 9:41 am
  • Indeed he is more likable every day…

    sam-YF January 7, 2009, 9:52 am
  • Paul, I wouldn’t put much stock in anything Tex says. No disrespect intended to Tex, but he went where they offered him the best offer: both financially and chance to win perspective. I bet you diamonds to donuts (obviously this is a statement I can’t back up, just a hunch) that if the Sox offer was higher he would have been on the podium in Fenway talking about road trips to Boston as a kid and how he used to idolize player X. Just like I don’t believe CC that his decision was anything more than financial, I don’t believe Tex knew on Dec. 12th. All of this gibberish is lip service, I wore a Yankees hat, I love Don Mattingly…What I don’t get is why they (FA’s who sign here) feel the need to make these cheesy proclamations. I am sure it’s not all Tex either, I am sure his “people” have informed him on what he should say. I just don’t get why they think we as fans need to hear this poop! Just perform and it will all take care of itself.

    John - YF January 7, 2009, 9:52 am
  • Except that wasn’t the only thing separating the Yankees and Red Sox. It was $46 million and two additional years — neither of which I notice were in the Yankees’ final offer.
    Not surprising that Boras made such a proposal to the Red Sox, but not to the Yankees, given that Teixeira had decided beforehand that he wanted to be on the Yankees. It has all the makings of a proposal Boras knew the Sox would reject, for the express purpose of being able to say, “Hey, if the Sox would have just accepted this, he’d be wearing a ‘B’ on his cap instead of an ‘NY’!” Which, haha, is exactly what he said.

    Paul SF January 7, 2009, 9:53 am
  • Remember how much Gerritt Cole loved the Yankees? That seemed to work out real well, LOL.

    John - YF January 7, 2009, 9:54 am
  • and two options that could have brought the total to $220 million over 10 years — the Yankees had a chance.
    You really should read your own cited quotes before making a summation like you did, that the Sox were “in it”. The Sox were asked to pony up two (easily vesting, according to the reports) vesting options making the deal worth 220M. The Sox apparently (and correctly) took this as a sign that Tex and Boras were not negotiating in good faith. Notice that the Sox refused to accept these vesting options and that Tex didn’t end up with them in his contract from the Yankees. Boras was asking for a ridiculous topper to ice the deal with the Sox, the equivalent of getting a job offer from another company and going into your current boss and asking for a silly amount to stay, if you get it great but if you don’t then you will move on knowing you’ve got an insurance policy. Boras HAD the insurance policy in hand, the Yankees. The Sox walked away smartly, they were a second choice at a ridiculous price for Teixeira, and the Sox weren’t going there. So he went with his first choice. Henry’s email, in retrospect perhaps the most overanalyzed short-form missive of the last ten years, is clearly hiding almost nothing, there’s nothing cryptic about it. Henry knew the Sox had no shot, he detected a tell in Boras and Texeira and he realized the Sox weren’t an option for Texeira, just as the Angels did earlier.
    Another thing: you don’t hire Scott Boras, play hardball negotiations with big teams on multiple occasions, then not take responsibility for your choice of where you signed, say it was all ultimately due to the thoughts of your significant other. I find Teixeira’s use of his wife in this whole tale to be unseemly, a copout. I don’t begrudge him a family decision, in any way, but this is utter tripe, spoonfed to the fans and the media for effect.
    And lastly, John Henry is clearly very smart, at least as a negotiator. He saw a tell in that trip to Texas. And he likely cost Teixeria several million dollars (and saved the Yankees a good chunk as well, fortunately for them) because Tex and Boras weren’t able to mask their intentions well enough. For maybe the first time I think Boras left money on the table.

    SF January 7, 2009, 9:56 am
  • Great work from Tony Massarotti linked in the sidebar (under Red Sox News) and his column from yesterday’s news conference.
    Seems like Teixeira had a preference, but the Sox held firm right up to the deadline. That left the opening for Cashman.
    Speaking of which:
    Winning the winter means squat. – Brian Cashman

    Rob January 7, 2009, 9:56 am
  • You might be right, John, but it seems strange that Teixeira would go so far as to lie about a specific conversation he had with his wife. Hey, maybe he did. Still, all we have to go on is his word, and he is saying this stuff. And what he’s saying makes it sound like he strung the Red Sox along in an effort to get more money from the Yankees — likely a Boras plan, but one that was spoiled when Henry publicly refused to increase his offer.

    Paul SF January 7, 2009, 9:58 am
  • And SF and I are clearly on the same page here.

    Paul SF January 7, 2009, 10:00 am
  • From the Mazz column:
    As for Team Boras, take this into account: Earlier this offseason, one source in the agent’s camp indicated the Red Sox could have locked up Teixeira with an offer of $176 million over eight years. The same source said that the Sox declined. What the source did not reveal was that the proposal included a pair of vesting options that would have brought the deal to $220 million over 10 years. Withholding such vital information that makes the entire exchange downright deceitful and manipulative.
    Who’s the source, then, Mazz? How about burning that source so they don’t do this again, make it clear who can’t be trusted? Why still protect someone who is “deceitful and manipulative”, and who lied to you?

    SF January 7, 2009, 10:04 am
  • You really should read your own cited quotes before making a summation like you did, that the Sox were “in it”. The Sox were asked to pony up two (easily vesting, according to the reports) vesting options making the deal worth 220M.
    Who’s to say? Based on Massarotti’s analysis, we just don’t know if the Sox tried to negotiate those options away. Say $176 and one option. Maybe those options were included and they didn’t want a no-trade in return. How much is a no-trade worth? Would the Sox have offered $176 million and a no-trade? That’s essentially what Tex got from the Yankees.
    I can see where you guys think the Sox were used. But I have no reason to believe that Cashman is lying in the Kepner reporting. So, by that account, if the Sox had sealed the deal by the 23rd (by negotiating with the agent rather than through the press), he could have landed in Boston. Still, that probably would have meant a no-trade clause or the two options. Would you guys have added either? If not, then Boras legitimately waited for a better offer.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 10:04 am
  • I don’t think we are far off Paul, the bottom line for me is don’t believe we as Yankee fans believe any of this poppycock that comes from their mouths. They were FA’s driven by one reason or the other and in the end they made what they thought was best for them. They should just know that I don’t need them to bleed pinstripes, just hit in the clutch and pitch 200+ innings and we are all good.

    John - YF January 7, 2009, 10:10 am
  • Just to be clear: How much is a no-trade worth?
    I can completely see where Teixeira says the process was confusing.
    Say you have three offers:
    Nationals: 8 years, $160 Million, no-trade, two options
    Red Sox: 8 years, $176 Million
    Yankees: 8 years, $140 Million, no-trade
    How does one decide which is the better offer? If Boras knows the Sox won’t budge on the no-trade what else was he supposed to do? I can totally see the options as a way to mitigate the absence of the no-trade.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 10:12 am
  • just hit in the clutch and pitch 200+ innings
    Wow. High standards. Not even Babe Ruth did that for the Yankees! ;-)

    Paul SF January 7, 2009, 10:12 am
  • A no-trade is worth 5 million at most, since I think that’s close to what you would have to pay someone for them to waive it..

    Lar January 7, 2009, 10:16 am
  • If not, then Boras legitimately waited for a better offer.
    No argument there – he waited for a better offer than the one the Sox made. But he also accepted an offer for far less than what reporting is saying he asked for.
    When Boras says “the Sox had a legitimate offer on the table” and fails to explain that said offer was for nearly 30% more than what Tex got at the end, that’s a disingenuous statement. For example, I could say “I offered my Dad a used book that I own, and it was a deal he could have taken” but then don’t really explain that it was a 19th edition copy of “Green Eggs and Ham” and that I asked him for $895 for it, well, the truth outs. When Boras says the Sox had a deal that would have been accepted, he’s eliminating the phrase “BY US” at the end of it.
    A “legitimate offer” is typically not one that is laughed at by one party and significantly out of whack with what is ultimately negotiated. The final deal with the Yankees exposes Boras’ machinations here – he was asking the Sox for “F You” money to seal the deal. The Sox declined to offer it.
    ——
    Update from the Globe, Henry emails Jack Curry at the NYT last night:
    Henry said the Red Sox were unaware of [Teixeira's wife] Leigh’s preference for the Yankees, but “felt all along that the Yankees were going to get the last call” from Boras. Since the Red Sox had proposed an eight-year deal for about $170 million, Henry said he found it curious they were told “that we were the low bidders and Boston wasn’t high” on Teixeira’s list.
    “At one point, I asked Scott, given their feelings, why we shouldn’t pull out,” Henry said in an e-mail message. “His answer was, `Maybe you should.’ And we did.”

    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/01/henry_was_told.html

    SF January 7, 2009, 10:17 am
  • The problem with your analysis, Rob, is it’s based entirely on speculation and not at all on what people are saying.
    In fact, a no-trade clause is almost redundant because after Year 5 of the deal — when the contract would finally be small enough to allow a trade to anyone other than a very small number of teams (most of whom are in direct competition with Boston) — Teixeira would have 10/5 rights. A $21 million annual contract for the first four years of an eight-year deal is essentially untradeable (see the Sox’ many failed efforts between 2002-2005 to trade or waive Manny Ramirez’s contract).

    Paul SF January 7, 2009, 10:18 am
  • But ya, while it’s “neat” that he was possibly a Yanks fan, it doesn’t mean anything if he starts hitting .200. But then we’re the hardcore fans – casual fans might like him for it and maybe back him up on things.
    In either case, we’ll see, I guess!

    Lar January 7, 2009, 10:18 am
  • Sorry for the confusion funny guy, that comment was meant for CC and Tex, no just Tex.

    John - YF January 7, 2009, 10:18 am
  • Yankee fans believe any of this poppycock that comes from their mouths.
    I don’t subscribe to this cynicism.
    It seems some of you are trying to intuit the worst possible intentions. I think it’s much simpler. The Yankees were his top choice but they weren’t really in it. The Sox made a strong offer, but it was still close to what other teams were offering, and in some ways probably less appealing (lacking a no-trade). The Yanks came in, at the last minute, with an optimized offer: The money was the same and with a no-trade.
    Now sure, Boras could have told them what the offer needed to be. But it sounds like he did the same for the Sox – he was negotiating based on the offer at hand (lacking that no-trade). And remember, options aren’t included in guaranteed money. Ask Manny.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 10:20 am
  • Paul – on top of that, I’m sure the contract is structured to be backloaded to take additional advantage of the future money off the books (at least I can count Damon, Matsui..)

    Lar January 7, 2009, 10:21 am
  • And remember, options aren’t included in guaranteed money.
    They are when they’re vesting, and Teixeira is an extremely healthy player, making whatever vesting options Boras proposed likely very easy to reach. barring a fluke end-of-career injury.
    Ramirez’s options were not vesting, and he was the one who forced his way out of them, so that comparison doesn’t hold water. You are significantly overvaluing the value of a no-trade clause to make a false equivalence between Boras’ offer to the Red Sox and his ultimate deal with the Yankees. They are nowhere near equivalent, even factoring in the minimal value a NTC holds. Boras asked the Sox for Paris. The Yankees gave him Munich. Yeah, they’re both European cities I’d love to visit, but they’re not equivalent.

    Paul SF January 7, 2009, 10:26 am
  • fails to explain that said offer was for nearly 30% more
    Sorry, but you’re counting options when we don’t know what the structure would have been. Team options don’t count (because they can always be declined). Player options do. Vesting options don’t (because of the uncertainty).
    Also, we can’t know the worth of the no-trade. Say two teams offer the same money over the same years. One offers a no-trade. Another offers two team options. Which is worth more?
    The problem with your analysis, Rob, is it’s based entirely on speculation and not at all on what people are saying.
    Huh? It seems to be exactly what everyone is saying. The Yanks weren’t in it. The Sox were. The Sox pulled out. The Yanks swooped in.
    We’re left to wonder why. But since the money was so close, I can totally see where things like the player’s preference and a no-trade come in. Still, if the Sox had agreed, or worked with, the options-based offer, who’s to say what would have happened?
    Good point on the 10/5 rights. But that still would have been 5 years away. In three years say Lars is a stud and the economy has rebounded. They could have looked to trade him. I can understand where a player (and his agent) value stability. There’s no arguing that’s worth something and the Sox prefer that flexibility. Why shouldn’t they pay a bit more for that privilege?

    Rob January 7, 2009, 10:30 am
  • Your argument essentially comes down to the fact that a no-trade clause that would have value for the most untradeable half of a long-term deal is equal to $46 million and two extra years on a contract (both team and player would hope/assume he’d be healthy enough over the course of such a deal to make those options vest, so they do indeed count). There is no way that’s true.
    Based on the offers reported, the Sox were clearly not in this once Teixeira made his decision, and the Sox were correct to pull out and refuse to help Boras make more money from the Yankees off their involvement.

    Paul SF January 7, 2009, 10:34 am
  • Like I said Rob, I have no way of proving or backing up my statements, just a hunch. But truthfully the real issue here is that the lip service isn’t needed. I don’t care if we were your 3rd choice and you idolized Mo Vaughn as a kid, it makes no never mind to me. Just come put the uniform on and play baseball. Because even if you are being honest and Donnie Baseball was your idol as a kid, it comes off phony.

    John - YF January 7, 2009, 10:36 am
  • They are when they’re vesting, and Teixeira is an extremely healthy player, making whatever vesting options Boras proposed likely very easy to reach. barring a fluke end-of-career injury.
    They’re not guaranteed money when they’re vesting. There’s no denying that point. Contracts lay out possibilities. They don’t predict the future.
    All I’m saying is: What’s the worth of a no-trade? Two team options? Two vesting options? Two mutual options?
    You guys are assuming that the Sox made an identical offer. They didn’t. They made a close offer with a sticking point.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 10:40 am
  • There is no way that’s true.
    There’s even less to go on w/r to whether he’ll be healthy enough in year 6 or 7 or 8 to vest two hypothetical options and which we have no way of knowing what their structure would have been – team, player, mutual, or vesting?
    Options don’t get included in guaranteed money unless they’re player options. That’s a fact.
    The Sox don’t offer no-trade’s. Is that a good policy? Would it have been better to break that policy in this case? Does that remove the need for options in Boras’ mind?
    Who’s to say, but I can totally see how the negotiations were going and why they were confusing to the player.
    Boras says he had a better offer in hand. Who’s to say it wasn’t the Nationals for 8 years, $180 million, and a no-trade? That seems like a better offer to me than what the Sox had put on the table. The no-trade has some clear value.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 10:49 am
  • They made a close offer with a sticking point.
    The Sox’ final offer was worth less money than what the Yankees offered. I’ve never had a problem with Teixeira signing with the Yankees for more money.
    The Sox were told they could sign Teixeira on the spot with an offer worth more money and with expensive vesting options (note the no-trade clause is not mentioned in this proposal, so I don’t find its inclusion in the Yankee offer as particularly significant) that, given Teixeira’s injury history, were likely to have been met.
    The Sox saw they were in a rigged game and got out.

    Paul SF January 7, 2009, 10:50 am
  • The Yankees were his top choice but they weren’t really in it.
    This is absolutely untrue. The Yankees made an initial offer. They had met with him, in person, they had expressed interest. They had a need at the position, and a salary slot for Tex. They transparently had/have a lot of money to spend.
    To suppose they “weren’t in it” is just silly. This is a big misunderstanding of what happened, to put it bluntly.

    SF January 7, 2009, 10:51 am
  • wow…i didn’t realize there was so much bitterness over this one…RSN=rationalize and spin nation…you don’t know that tex didn’t have a conversation with his wife where she suggested that he pick the yankees…so, to call him a “liar” is a cheap, petty shot…and what did you want him to say at a press conference at his new home, surrounded by his new bosses, wearing his new uniform shirt? “gee, i really don’t like the yankees or their entitled selfish fans, hate the city, traffic, etc….wish the angels or sox had offered me more, but let’s face it, money talks, and seriously, the yanks got the money and fans stupid enough to pay those outrageous ticket prices”…that’s not gonna happen, even if he felt that way…i know this’ll never happen either, but i’d love to see the press conference where the sox welcome back manny…that’ll be some priceless tripe…as for acting in good faith, gee, this is boras after all…you guys don’t seem to mind it when you’re on the winning side of those deals…not sure how boras “left money on the table” since the sox apparently went to their max and declared it so, being good businessmen and all [i think that was your spin last week, but well, maybe the yankees didn't overspend on tex after all, using that logic]…and, with his firm stance, henry effectively took himself out of the discussions, in essence allowing his chief rival an opening they couldn’t ignore…all they had to do was beat the best offer so far…not sure henry’s actions show any particular brilliance or negotiating acumen on his part, but if that makes it feel better, ok……painting this any other way than the yankees made a better offer that was accepted, period, is futile…you’re all speculating about the timing of certain events and conversations based on the snippets of information leaked out by participants and the musings of a few sportswriters…i’d be naive to think we’ll get all the facts about what went down, but making such grandiose and definitive conclusions beyond measuring one offer against another, and based on bits of information, is pointless…

    dc January 7, 2009, 10:55 am
  • Because even if you are being honest and Donnie Baseball was your idol as a kid, it comes off phony.
    It didn’t come off as phony to me. He talked about wearing a Yankee hat to O’s games as a kid and when Baltimore wasn’t very safe. That’s real to me, and from his press conference, I liked the signing much better. I still hate the years since they could have approximated the offense with Manny and/or Dunn. But I’m coming around on him because of what he said yesterday. Maybe that makes me naive, but it’s how I feel.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 10:56 am
  • so, to call him a “liar” is a cheap, petty shot…
    Dude, DC, you’re referring to a Yankee fan’s post.
    you’re all speculating about the timing of certain events and conversations based on the snippets of information leaked out by participants and the musings of a few sportswriters
    Wait, so should we take Teixeira at his word, lest we engage in a “cheap shot” by calling him a liar, or is the information about the timing from Teixeira’s own mouth nothing but “snippets of information leaked out by participants,” the commentary on which is “futile”? I’m confused.

    Paul SF January 7, 2009, 11:02 am
  • I am not calling him a liar, I am just telling you to me it’s seems phony. Not because it’s coming from Tex, but because it’s the same nonsense they all spew while standing up there. Maybe he is being 100% truthful, but how could every FA that signs with the Yankees have dreamed of playing here? AJ Burnett was the most honest signing…I signed here because it was the best offer, point blank. Good for AJ.

    John - YF January 7, 2009, 11:11 am
  • the unfair cynicism may have originiated with john on this thread, although i saw it from sf on yesterday’s “take your seats” thread, and i’ve seen a lot of piling on since then…heck, even my own comments suggested that his love of the yankees was probably a bit contrived, duh
    i’m not saying that you should take teixeira at his word, but to assume he’s lying, or being insincere, is unfair frankly…the commentary is fine, but trying to draw conclusions about one’s sincerity, or whether or not they received career advise from their spouse, is what’s futile…

    dc January 7, 2009, 11:17 am
  • sorry john, just saw your last comment…i think i agree, a healthy amount of cynicism is ok…even from us yankee fans… ;)

    dc January 7, 2009, 11:19 am
  • In my case DC, I have said 2 times, make it 3 now, that I have no way of proving it either way. To me it’s like the boy who cried wolf…that’s all I am saying.

    John - YF January 7, 2009, 11:21 am
  • And I posted before yours, Sorry DC.

    John - YF January 7, 2009, 11:21 am
  • The Sox saw they were in a rigged game and got out.
    I don’t see how it was “rigged”. I can see how you feel that way. But if the Yanks never came back with their final offer, I can also see Teixeira with a tough choice: no-trade in Washington/Baltimore or winning baseball in Boston.
    If anything, it seems like Boras was telling the Sox what it would take (if not a no-trade, then options). And they thought he was BSing them. Clearly he wasn’t. But Boras also knew that the Yanks weren’t going to have a problem with a no-trade. So for them the only question was whether they’d offer the same money as other teams.
    The whole process just seems like fairly standard negotiating – no “rigging” involved. The Sox walked away from the table. If the Yanks never came back, Boras would have been in a bind if Teixeira valued winning baseball over a no-trade.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 11:37 am
  • I can understand why you guys are upset, but when other players have chosen the Sox, was the process “rigged”?
    When Lowell gave the Sox a contract with one less guaranteed year than the Phillies offered, was that “rigged” against the Phillies?
    When A-Rod was willing to forgo salary to get out of Texas for the Sox, was that “rigged”?
    That’s a good comparison. Clearly the Rangers paid a premium becuase A-Rod wanted to go to a contender. The cash was different enough to convince him otherwise.
    What so wrong with thinking Teixeira wanted to play for the Yankees, but could have been convinced otherwise with a distinguishing offer (more money and/or no-trade and/or option years)? I don’t see a problem with that nor with the agent sending the appropriate message.
    The Yankees and Sox are so close as organizations right now (both great baseball towns with winning teams), I would absolutely expect little things like personal preference, the home stadium, no-trades, and options to play a big role. If the Sox have to pay more to overcome some of these things, then what’s the problem, exactly?
    I actually admire the way they didn’t go overboard (apart from the owner’s grandstanding). Now if they signed a guy like Dunn, they get a big chunk of the offense for half the yearly cost and over three years. That’s very strong team.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 11:56 am
  • from the deja vu department, or the ghost of murray chass lives:
    this discussion and the allegations of rigging remind me of the discussions we had about allegations that the sox tampered with jd drew…you’re chass-ing windmills with this one sox fans…

    dc January 7, 2009, 12:48 pm
  • So wait, if the Yankees had to go $60 million over Sabathia’s next highest offer because he presumably didn’t *really* want to play for them, where’s Paul and SF’s outcry against CC? Does this also make CC unlikeable?
    All the Sox had to do was meet Boras and Tex’s demands, if Tex were to go to Boston. His first choice, it seems, was the Yankees, but extra commitment from the Sox could have wrapped up the deal. Same thing with CC, except the Yankees actually met his demands, and now he’s a Yankee.
    The only people Sox fans have to blame for not landing Teixeira is the Boston FO and ownership group for not ponying up the cash that was required (or, perhaps, for trying to outsmart Boras and have it blow up in their faces). Or is it now unfair and unlikeable for a player to demand different amounts from different teams?

    AndrewYF January 7, 2009, 1:12 pm
  • kinda interesting that CC’s wife amber didn’t want to go to NY, while marks wife leigh made the final call to go to NY.
    maybe the sox need to spend less money scouting over seas and start focusing in on entertaining potential free agent players wives. socials followed by shopping excursions to harvard square wrapped up with a tea and cookie get together might be more advantageous in the long run. is it collusion to wine and dine a players wife while the player is still under contract with another team?

    sf rod January 7, 2009, 2:09 pm
  • Rob, DC and Andrew are all missing the key point. It’s not untoward at all for a player to say, “I don’t really prefer your city/team, but if you blow me away, I’ll sign with you.”
    The problem is Teixeira never said that. He chose a team, then his agent tried to get the other team to accept a supersized offer while trying to also make them believe they were still in the bidding. Teixeira and Boras knew he was going to the Yankees, but that didn’t stop them from presenting to the Red Sox that they were in the running and could work out a deal with a simple trip to Texas.
    It clearly did not take long for the Red Sox to figure out the truth once they were hit with Boras’ ridiculous request. When I say the game was rigged, I mean just that: The Sox were led to believe they were playing on an equal footing when in fact they were at a significant disadvantage. Wrong or right, that’s negotiations, and I imagine it happens fairly often. But let’s not try to make this out as something similar to A-Rod exercising a plainly written opt-out agreement to get more money elsewhere. That’s another false equivalence.

    Paul SF January 7, 2009, 2:44 pm
  • So if “that’s negotiations”, what’s the problem? Why the snarky “Boy, Teixeira gets more likable day after day”? Is what he and his agent did morally wrong? Does it make him universally unlikable, or only to fans who feel slighted because he didn’t sign with their favored team?
    Is that really shaping your like or dislike of the man? I wonder how things would be if his choice was Baltimore, and he signed there. All I know is, if Boras told the Yankees *this* is what it takes to sign him, and the Yankees passed (or tried to beat Boras at his own game and failed), and he ends up signing for less than what was demanded with Baltimore (because he simply liked Baltimore better), I would certainly not blame the agent or the player for the loss, but the Yankees for passing (or outsmarting themselves).

    AndrewYF January 7, 2009, 3:03 pm
  • The problem is Teixeira never said that.
    Of course not. He hadn’t received a competitive offer from his preferred team and there was no indication he would. So they negotiated with other teams. How is that shocking?
    Teixeira and Boras knew he was going to the Yankees
    Why are you making stuff up out of spite?
    I see nothing different here than the Sox “rigging” the bidding for Lowell last off-season. If he had no intention of leaving Boston, even when they gave him a clearly low-ball offer, then why wasn’t he more forthright with other teams from the beginning?
    The duplicity being displayed in this thread is simply astonishing. There was a clear negotiation process. A bunch of teams were in it, until they weren’t. The Sox, rightly in my opinion, stuck to their perceived value of the player. The Yankees paid market rate (as set by the Sox and Nationals) for a player they clearly felt they needed.
    What the problem, again? That the Sox couldn’t sign Teixeira with about the same money but less incentives? That they didn’t want to give a no-trade and so Boras proposed two options?
    Seriously, that’s why some SFs are so upset?

    Rob January 7, 2009, 3:37 pm
  • What sucks about the whole situation is that Theo, Henry and the gang wasted time on Teixeira when he admittedly had made his decision a week beforehand. Having Boras continue to dangle Tex in front of Theo even though there was no reasonable possibility of signing him is a douchebag move. That’s time that could have been spent on more important matters (like signing someone better than Nick Green–wtf Theo?)
    Tex admitting to making his decision on Dec. 12 is the equivalent of saying “Yeah I knew I wasn’t going to sign with the Sox, but Boras and I strung them along anyways to see if they would offer us ARod money.” I’m sure it happens a lot, but that doesn’t mean it makes him a likable guy.
    Keep in mind it’s not just us that are pissed about the whole situation–the Orioles and Nats GM’s have expressed frustration about the whole situation as well.

    Atheose - SF January 7, 2009, 3:41 pm
  • He hadn’t received a competitive offer from his preferred team and there was no indication he would. So they negotiated with other teams. How is that shocking?
    You’re acting as if the negotiation process is a one-way street. This isn’t Junior-high where only the boys ask the girls out; if Boras had gone to the Yankees and said “180 with a no-trade and he’s yours right now” then Cashman would have pulled the trigger. Using the excuse “but the Yankees didn’t make an offer!” is irrelevant.

    Atheose - SF January 7, 2009, 3:45 pm
  • “is it collusion to wine and dine a players wife while the player is still under contract with another team?”
    I think it’s just a little creepy in a Hank Steinbrenner is at your door kind of way.

    Nick-YF January 7, 2009, 3:46 pm
  • is it collusion to wine and dine a players wife while the player is still under contract with another team?
    I dunno, ask Lenny Kravitz! ZING!

    Atheose - SF January 7, 2009, 3:48 pm
  • Boras’ ridiculous request
    Again, I understand your hurt feelings, but tell me how you would have acted had you been the agent for the player. Team A has a policy of not giving no-trades. Team B is willing give the same money, over the same years, but a no-trade.
    How do you fairly give Team A a chance? What more could Team A do, especially if they’re not willing to add guaranteed dollars or years? If anything, Team B in this instance is the one that was most “used”.
    And that’s what’s interesting to me here. Henry clearly thought that Boras was bluffing. But by all accounts he did have the Nationals offer in hand. If the Yankees never entered back into the picture, because for instance Hal never relented, the it seems clear that Teixeira would have had a tough choice:
    Door 1 – Red Sox, winning but a bit less money and fewer incentives
    Door 2 – Nationals, rebuilding but a bit more money and a no-trade
    The Yankees, by all accounts, came along behind Door 3, and just two hours before the deadline for Teixeira’s decision, with the best combination of the two offers.
    You know what else is interesting here? By the accounts of Teixeira’s meeting with the Sox, he was asking what would happen to Lowell if they signed him. You may not think that involves the no-trade clause, but clearly the Sox feel they can trade Lowell and some here advocated as such. Considering that Lowell took a paycut to return to Boston, I can absolutely see why Teixeira would have wanted a no-trade from them or some other incentive. The Sox want the lowest possible cost and the best parameters for them. I think that’s a fantastic long-term philosophy, but it means they can easily run into situations like these. It’s interesting to me that SFs here are willing to ignore instance where their team “rigged” the process – to the short-term (one fewer guaranteed year) and long-term (possibility of being traded mid-contract) detriment of a likeable player on your team.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 3:52 pm
  • so i started digging info for the courtship of certain players wives…..
    ashley saltalamacchia is 14 years jarrods senior and was a teacher at his highschool. maybe the sox can offer her a cushy job in player development.

    sf rod January 7, 2009, 3:54 pm
  • Teixeira when he admittedly had made his decision a week beforehand
    No he didn’t. He didn’t have an offer to do so.
    then Cashman would have pulled the trigger
    Except he didn’t have an approval from ownership to do so. By all accounts, that came on the 23rd well after Henry sent his text around.
    I understand SFs want to find a “villain” and preferably one outside of your organization. Boras and the Yankees work nicely there. Except for the minor detail that, using the same insane logic being applied here, Boras has “rigged” negotiations previously to benefit the Sox (e.g., Nancy Drew). And the Sox have “rigged” negotiations to benefit themselves (e.g. Lowell).
    Time to wake up, kids. This is SOP.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 3:58 pm
  • Beltran is a perfect example where the player had a Yankee preference but the Yankees never came back into the picture, even at less than he eventually got. So I suppose that process was “rigged” too, until it wasn’t.
    Having watched that go down, and this year’s pitching spending, I bet the Sox thought that the Yanks weren’t in it and that Teixeira wouldn’t sign with a team like the Nationals or Orioles. So they were comfortable holding on their legit offer. The common wisdom on Beltran is that the Yankees had hit their payroll limit. Considering that Cashman needed to work hard convince his owner that Teixeira was worth, this assumption may not be that far off.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 4:09 pm
  • Let me clear up a few of my own thoughts, just so this doesn’t degenerate.
    1) The Sox are grownups. They are a business run by businesspeople. They are neither stupid nor naive. Implying or maintaining that they were treated unfairly without a more bilateral explanation of why or how isn’t that illustrative or useful. They know who Scott Boras is, how he works. They had experience with Texeira long ago, and they know him, to an extent, as well.
    2) Scott Boras isn’t that honest. He’s a great negotiator. He’s a brilliant agent. His honesty (or lack thereof) is all part of the negotiation process, so I don’t use it to judge him morally, but rather it should be looked at as a barometer of business ethics and in the context of this high stakes game. His barometer points a little lower than others. At the same time I say this, you would be hard-pressed to find anyone else at this site who has expressed more interest in or respect for his abilities than me.
    3) To paraphrase John, a Yankee fan, Teixeira’s pithy comments shouldn’t really be all that convincing to YFs, much less SFs. When I commented yesterday, it wasn’t out of anger at not having signed Teixeira (that would have been evident a couple of weeks ago had I felt that) but rather a general cynicism with the “stories” that players tell to endear themselves to their new fanbase. In Teixeira’s case, though, his statements betray a lack of guile; someone probably would have been wise to coach him on what he should have left out of his interview, in particular the exact dates on which he made decisions. The dating of his desire to play for the Yankees, the involvement of his wife, that all betrays a serious lack of guile.
    4) That lack of guile is probably what set off Henry after he met with Boras and Tex in Texas. While he probably thought or was led to believe by Boras (and that’s what reporting says, though I have established my skepticism about the reporting) that he was going to finish a deal, not be faced with a 25% increase in Tex’s demands, far beyond what had already been offered, that’s a dead giveaway that things weren’t as he expected or as he was led to believe. But, Boras being a tough negotiator, the Sox being grownups, all that and the fact that Boras may have been dishonest, that the Sox may have been misled, these are not mutually exclusive.
    5) Henry must have known he wasn’t there to finish a deal, that he his shot at Tex was over at that point as soon as the vesting option and 200M+ demand hit the air. Only someone with no experience at all would misunderstand that move from Boras. I return to my “get a job offer from a competing company but go into your existing boss’ office and make a silly demand in order to retain your services” metaphor. This fits it almost to a T.
    6) On a personal level, I don’t begrudge Teixeira and Boras (or the Sox) their right to “play games” during hardball, high intensity, high stakes negotiations. But that doesn’t mean we should blindly buy into the idea that every tactic is fair game, that there are no boundaries with regards to business ethics, that there is no deception worth reproach in such high stakes games. There are such things. And it is quite normal of fans to react to the visibility of these things, particularly when they involve one’s own team. Boras, upon reflection, seems to have come very close to the line here. Ironically, in doing so, he may have in fact cost his client money. That’s interesting to me: Boras and Teixeira, in these dealings, got themselves the highest offer, a success for sure. But the Angels and Sox recognized the game being played, without any question whatsoever. Henry’s email is now utterly transparent – the Sox would not be a factor because they weren’t a factor. Brian Cashman and Yankee fans are collateral beneficiaries of Henry’s awareness of the tactic, his unwillingness to be the guy who ponied up the “fuck you” money.

    SF January 7, 2009, 4:19 pm
  • So are we all finally in agreement that Henry’s email was not some brilliant, mastermind calling-of-the bluff, but actually an honest assessment of the situation?

    AndrewYF January 7, 2009, 4:26 pm
  • Really, the interesting thing to me about Henry’s email was that it was public. In retrospect, maybe this reinforces the idea that it wasn’t a negotiating tactic, that it was as Andrew writes and I think SF agrees just an honest assessment of the situation that he wanted his fanbase to know.

    Nick-YF January 7, 2009, 4:35 pm
  • So are we all finally in agreement that Henry’s email was not some brilliant, mastermind calling-of-the bluff, but actually an honest assessment of the situation?
    Seems to me that it was 100% honest and blunt. Hindsight makes that somewhat easier an assessment, of course. I looked at the thread Paul posted about it at the time, the comments make an interesting read in retrospect.
    http://www.yfsf.org/2008/12/the-end-is-near.html

    SF January 7, 2009, 4:48 pm
  • I think it was an honest assessment.
    Someone’s read of the situation on SoSH, which seems plausible, is that Tex figured out he wanted to sign with the Yankees, but they weren’t heavily involved. So he asked Boras to get them involved. Boras didn’t want to call up the Yankees and lose leverage by saying “guys, Mark really wants to sign with you” so he tried to create leverage with the Texas meeting – make it look like Boston was about to sign Tex to see if he could trigger a Steinbrenner wallet explosion.
    Henry and company go to Texas, are faced with a ridiculous proposal for “I’ll sign this here and now” that Boras knows they won’t accept, realize they’re being used as leverage to try to get the Yankees in it in a more serious way and that Tex isn’t serious about Boston, and leave. Henry then sends the email.

    Micah-SF January 7, 2009, 4:48 pm
  • I think that’s a pretty good read of the situation, Micah, and in line with my sentiments. It is an explanation that provides us with a motive for Henry’s email: he figured out the Sox weren’t the team for Tex, and that’s regardless of whether the Yankees were even involved at the moment he boarded the plane. Henry recognized Boras’ tell.
    I lightly wonder whether he had no involvement from the Yankees or not-quite-enough involvement at that moment. I am guessing that Cashman, at their earlier meetings, told Boras that he shouldn’t make a move without calling the Yankees first, in those words or in other more clever words. But I am not sure we’ll ever know the answer to that question, if it even matters.
    (See, I should have gone to that dinner with Hal Steinbrenner on Sunday. Seriously, I could have gone to a small, intimate dinner with some friends – and Hal. Dang it. See, I am no journalist, as has been proven over and over again)

    SF January 7, 2009, 4:53 pm
  • Scott Boras isn’t that honest.
    Except in this case, he seemed to be. He did have another offer (from the Nationals). The Henry text seems to have been simply been a statement of fact. They weren’t going any higher. And yet, they easily could have “won” had the Yanks never re-entered the picture.
    The dating of his desire to play for the Yankees, the involvement of his wife, that all betrays a serious lack of guile.
    So what? I, as a YF, liked the statements even as I wasn’t thrilled with the signing. And nothing he said changes the statements from Cashman that the Yankees weren’t involved with a competitive offer until the 23rd.
    not be faced with a 25% increase in Tex’s demands
    No matter how much you want to believe otherwise, vesting options aren’t an increase of anything. And Boras was right to ask for something in return for not getting a no-trade clause, like he would have gotten from the Nationals and did get from the Yankees.
    Henry must have known he wasn’t there to finish a deal
    This is pure conjecture. If they had been willing to include the two option years (in some form or another – team, mutual, or vesting) as a replacement for the no-trade they were getting from the Nationals, the Yanks may have never entered back into the picture.
    Boras, upon reflection, seems to have come very close to the line here.
    And when the Sox trade guys like Arroyo or, perhaps, Lowell after getting sweetheart, discount, deals? Or the Sox and Boras snuggling up close during the Drew debacle? Please don’t cite ethics. This is par for this free agent course. What I find much more interesting is the collusion w/r to Manny.
    Henry’s email is now utterly transparent – the Sox would not be a factor because they weren’t a factor.
    Again, you can’t know this. If the Yanks never come back, as they didn’t with Beltran, I can easily see a scenario where Teixeira chooses to play for a contending team over one that wouldn’t, even if it meant leaving money and incentives on the table. Boras and the Sox do, after all, have a history of finishing negotiations not long after public acrimony (Dice-K).

    Rob January 7, 2009, 5:07 pm
  • I think that’s a pretty good read of the situation, Micah, and in line with my sentiments.
    Except it took another week and half for the Yanks to seriously re-enter and then only because they were faced with a deadline.
    Cashman knew the text message was BS. The Sox were still a player, so long as, Teixeira was willing to take their lesser offer (compared to the Natioanls). That’s why he went to Hal. So says Kepner’s reporting.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 5:13 pm
  • I am guessing that Cashman, at their earlier meetings, told Boras that he shouldn’t make a move without calling the Yankees first, in those words or in other more clever words.
    Except Boras, or any agent (see Furcal this year), would do this for any team, if they asked. He’d be stupid not to. He did the same thing with Beltran and the Yankees passed.
    The Sox made it perfectly clear they weren’t going higher. Cashman’s job was as easy as beating the last published offer (Nationals) and giving a no-trade (which he knew the Sox wouldn’t match). Done and done.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 5:30 pm
  • Well, I didn’t say it really WORKED. Boras got the Boston guys to Texas, but they walked away from the table and Henry sent the email, pretty much removing the pressure on the Yankees to get involved right now that Boras had clearly been trying to create. He was eventually able to pull them in at the deadline a while later, but he wasn’t able to pull them into a bidding war to ratchet up the final value a bit more, which is I think what he was trying to do.
    This left the Sox as a player, but only if the Yankees refused to enter the bidding altogether, or at a level so far below Boston’s that Tex wouldn’t consider it. That’s what Henry recognized at the Texas meet – that the Yankees might not be involved right now, but that they were the real target and that Boston’s offer wasn’t going to get it done unless one of two things happened: they blew Tex away with a ludicrous contract, or the Yankees refused to get involved at all.
    From that standpoint, the “we aren’t a factor” email makes perfect sense. I don’t think Henry had any delusions that the Yankees would somehow not swoop in at the last minute

    Micah-SF January 7, 2009, 5:30 pm
  • or, perhaps, Lowell after getting sweetheart, discount, deals?
    Your methodology is really, um, interesting. And entirely a double standard. You are dismissive of some of my sentiments (pulled out of their available for all to read, remember) context above as “pure conjecture” yet to prove your own case and solidify your own position you cite a fictional, speculative, never-been-executed trade of Mike Lowell as evidence of some sort of institutional attitude of the Sox? That’s utterly laughable.

    SF January 7, 2009, 5:42 pm
  • “That’s what Henry recognized at the Texas meet – that the Yankees might not be involved right now, but that they were the real target and that Boston’s offer wasn’t going to get it done unless one of two things happened: they blew Tex away with a ludicrous contract, or the Yankees refused to get involved at all.”
    A minor quibble: why is the assumption that Henry knew that the Yanks were Tex’s primary target and not, say, the Orioles? (I have an extreme sinus headache so pardon me if this isn’t completely relevant). I think Henry’s an intelligent man, but he’s not necessarily all-knowing. I think the email signified that the Sox were not going to be used to ratchet up the price for whatever team would eventually get him (and Henry was holding out hope that the team would be the Sox).

    Nick-YF January 7, 2009, 5:47 pm
  • I suppose it theoretically could have been the Orioles, but I don’t think – given Tex, and given Boras – that they were anywhere near the most realistic choice. I mean, no, he’s not all-knowing (he certainly wouldn’t have flown to Texas if he was), but the Yankees makes far more sense than anyone else as the “team that was really being targeted.”

    Micah-SF January 7, 2009, 6:00 pm
  • That’s utterly laughable.
    What’s with the unnecessary aggression?
    Many folks here and elsewhere have assumed Lowell would be the one to go if they signed Teixeira. I don’t think that’s laughable – unless you’re laughing at them too.
    I see a complete double standard in this thread. Boras and the Sox are seen as acting in ways contrary to ways they’ve certainly exhibited in the past. Sorry but that just doesn’t wash. Negotiations are all about getting the best possible deal for your side. This situation is no different – not text message, Boras’ communications with teams, Tex’s preferences, nothing. I came down to money and incentives.
    I see a standard negotiating process, nothing more. The text message changed nothing from Cashman’s perspective. He still thought the Sox were about to “win”.
    But like I said earlier, I still don’t see why some SFs have such a problem with the way this went down. They offered a less appealing contract – not just money but the incentives too. They could have upped the offer – with a no-trade, or options, or more money, or more years and more money. They didn’t. I think that was very smart of them. But somehow that story is too simple so folks want to spin all sorts of “creative” interpretations.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 6:00 pm
  • http://www.yfsf.org/2009/01/yanking-their-chain.html#comment-6a00d8341c583d53ef010536baed9b970c
    That’s my comment, I stand by it. I am going to disengage, there’s just no reason to beat this horse beyond the flogging it has received. If you want, cite where I accuse Boras of crossing an ethical line. I only discuss the boundaries, Boras’ closeness to the line, my thoughts on the situation. It’s ALL conjecture, no shit. That’s implicit in any discussion like this. When I say “Henry detected Boras’ tell”, it’s conjecture. No shit. Why the urge to continually point this out, as if it’s invalid because it is conjecture? Your methods are repetitive and frustrating, Rob, or whatever you have chosen to call yourself today.
    I have never understood why nuance is frowned upon, why interesting subjects (and certainly negotiation methodology is a very interesting subject) need to be reduced or why a single comment is conveniently extended across an entire subject willy nilly, for no reason other than for rhetoric. Situations are not black and white. One team is not “right”, another party is not “evil”. An owner isn’t “all-knowing”. I refuse to assert these things, and haven’t asserted them. I think fans who do that are simplistic, just as those who look at this as garden-variety normalcy are too.

    SF January 7, 2009, 6:16 pm
  • Wow, that aggression is really overboard and unecessary.
    just as those who look at this as garden-variety normalcy are too.
    You’re right. I bet Teixeira told Boras to stick it to the Sox and their fans as much as possible before signing with the Yankees for the best deal he could get from them.
    For all your conjecture, the Sox didn’t include a no-trade. You can pretend that’s worth nothing, and that vesting options are guaranteed money. Neither is true. And that’s “nuance” you’re completely ignoring.

    Rob January 7, 2009, 6:37 pm
  • I am not reading everything posted above my comment, just a few …
    We know from history that at the end of the day, if the Yankees want a player, they are willing to outbid all offers to get him.
    I cannot recall a SINGLE PLAYER, well, a big-ticket player, anyway, that the Yanks wanted in free agency that they didn’t get. The Red Sox have NEVER outbid the Yankees for a plyer the Yankees were willing to pay for.
    We know the Yanks had interest in Tex. Boras and Tex knew it, too. They knew that as long as there was even slight interest from the Red Sox, they’d be able to get Cash and Stein to keep adding money to the pot.
    I have no reason to believe that the Red Sox ever had a shot at Tex as long as the Yankees were in the bidding. And I have very reason to believe that Boras was using the Sox as leverage to get more $$$.

    I'mBillMcNeal January 7, 2009, 7:26 pm
  • The major, persistent story is that for the next-near decade the Yankees are chained to a guy for whom they paid a shit-ton of money over a relative infinity in baseball years. It is a locally intense idea that Boras and Teixeira continued negotiations _after_ his mind was “made up.” Hey, it’s business. That’s a point made several times. My takeaway is more along the dour lines in that Boras and Teix got smiley and cuddly with the Yanks but left room for one more gesture to Boston, if only to bump the Yanks even higher if possible? I think John was right in his comment at 9:52 and supplemented at 10:36: to put any stock in this “my mind was made up by the twelfth” — “I wore his cap would have eaten Donnie’s jock” stuff is an ugly ingratiation. And I respect AJ for saying he grabbed the money.

    attackgerbil January 7, 2009, 7:51 pm
  • > The Red Sox have NEVER outbid the Yankees for a plyer the Yankees were willing to pay for.
    Not FA, but Matsuzaka’s posting fee/signing is in the realm of discussion. I realize.. sealed bids.. and I think it was a genius move by Boston.

    attackgerbil January 7, 2009, 7:53 pm
  • Anyone read Gammons’ latest tripe? Talk about sour grapes. He even insults Teixeira’s wife’s apparent dislike of Boston (“she doesn’t like the shops on Newberry St or something”), which is horribly amateurist, and even smacks of sexism. Jesus.

    AndrewYF January 7, 2009, 9:27 pm
  • I will happily admit I was wrong in overparsing Henry’s e-mail. Turns out he meant exactly what first impression said it meant — he believed the Sox were out, based on what Boras demanded they offer, and he was right.
    The e-mail seems to, intentionally or not, have essentially torpedoed Boras’ plan, and there were reports at the time that Boras was angry the Sox had done that. Which also makes sense: He could no longer use the pretense of a meeting/nearly done deal to get the Yankees to offer more money (given that NY had already made and withdrawn an offer and met with Teixeira, including creating a video package for him, by the time of the Texas meeting, I don’t think it’s accurate to say the Yankees were ever not involved in these negotiations).
    It became clear to the Angels sooner than the Red Sox, but in the end both clubs — nay, all four other clubs, including the O’s and Nats — were being used to engineer the highest possible bid from the Yankees. Now obviously when five teams are all interested in a player, you use their interest to elicit higher and higher bids until finally they reach their limits, if they have any. But to pretend as if those other four teams are on an equal footing when the player has actually already made his decision, well that’s the very definition of stringing someone along (or, as I called it earlier, a rigged game). It’s why Boras is so successful, but it’s also why he’s so detested. As one who respects the good job he does for his clients — while detesting the means he uses — I see this as the perfect example of his style.
    What is especially laughable is Boras’ quote that teams can’t suggest they were strung along. From Dec. 12 to Dec. 24, that’s all Boras and Teixeira were doing.
    At any rate, if we’re assigning some sort of moral order to Boras’ actions, this ranks well below what I believe he did earlier in 2008 — urging Manny Ramirez to engineer his way out of Boston as a way of canceling two team options.

    Paul SF January 7, 2009, 11:03 pm
  • Actually, Andrew, that interview with Gammons is, besides that stupid quip you cite, a very interesting read, and comes off about as far from sour grapes as one might imagine.

    SF January 7, 2009, 11:06 pm
  • Andrew, it’s Newbury Street. And it’s a pretty hip little avenue.
    I sense a lot of defensiveness here and I think we all need to calm down a bit.
    IMHO, the crux of the issue with Red Sox fans isn’t that Tex went NYY, it’s that Tex and Boras seem to have done one thing yet they want us to believe they did something else. As has been said, if Tex simply said, “I wanted to be a Yankee and I wanted Yankee money and they obliged so my decision was easy,” well then I can live with that.
    But what we really have is post negotiation posturing by the agent who wants us all to believe that the bidding was open to all to the end when in truth it was not.
    Why is Boras doing this? Because he’s covering his ass for future negotiations and other clients. He wants all MLB GMs to believe that he will negotiate in good faith with them.
    Put it this way: Free Agent Z is wanted by Teams A, B, C and D. Teams A, B and C have a lot of money to spend, but Team D has far more money to spend. It does Agent/Free Agent Z no good to listen to only Team D because then Team D would only be bidding against itself.
    So Agent sets up phony negotiations with Teams A, B and C to make them believe they have a shot, knowing all along that whatever the best offer is, Team D will trump it.
    It looks like its on the up-and-up, but in reality it is not.
    Look, it’s a business. I understand that. Yankees made best offer, Yankees got Teixeira. That’s basically how the Red Sox got Beckett. They met the Marlins’ asking price of Ramirez and Sanchez and that other guy and agreed to take Lowell’s contract.
    The problem I have is not that Tex went to New York, it’s that Boras and being disingenuous about the negotiations and there is plentyof evidence to support that. There is every reason to believe that at the end of the day, no matter what the best offer was, the Yankees were prepared to top it and Boras knew that. There is no way that Boras was negotiating in good faith with Boston, Anaheim, D.C. or Baltimore.
    To be fair, it could be any player any team. It’s still slimey. It’s just that in this case the teams are the Red Sox and Yankees, so it’s going to be overanalyzed. Believe me, Yankee fans, I’m not trying to suggest that the Yankees are the bad guys here. They had a clear advantage, they knew it and they used it. Cash knew all along that all he had to do was wait in the wings for the dust to clear and then swoop in.

    I'mBillMcNeal January 7, 2009, 11:40 pm
  • You mean aside from his 8-year-old Teixera/A-Rod ‘feud’, and this awful, stupid line: “Also, we haven’t really seen Teixeira in a situation where the expectations are really that high, and he’s going to have to deal with them in New York.”
    Teixeira has never been in a situation where expectations were high? REALLY? Jesus, Gammons, did you watch baseball at all last year?
    “On whether they Sox will sign Varitek, a Boras client:
    Gammons: Well, if he calls and says, ‘I’ll sign at $2 million,’ they might do it.”
    What a stretch.
    “This is one of the worst winters I can ever remember. What happened this winter is that, as the internet has expanded to become the media power, the flow of information is quickly controlled by agents.”
    Peter simply has sour grapes that he was made to look foolish. He was all atwitter when it looked like his favorite team was going to sign the best free agent. If you watched ESPN you could literally see him deflate when it turned out Teixeira was going to the Yankees.
    Gammons is becoming more and more of a hack every single day. It’s sad what he’s become.

    AndrewYF January 7, 2009, 11:43 pm
  • IBM – I even live in Boston and like Newbury Street. I don’t know how I could misspell it. Dumb me.
    But also, I don’t think you know the definition of “good faith negotiations”. Boras clearly stated that he made offers to teams who rejected them. Pretty normal. Not negotiating in good faith means that he wasn’t prepared to go through with the signing if the team accepted the terms he offered. That’s simply not the case.

    AndrewYF January 7, 2009, 11:46 pm
  • “This is one of the worst winters I can ever remember. What happened this winter is that, as the internet has expanded to become the media power, the flow of information is quickly controlled by agents.”
    Every word of this is true. There was far more misinformation flowing than fact. How many times has Peavey been on his way to the Cubs? What about Boras and the bogus Red Sox offer to Varitek? The rush of reporters to Boras’ side every time he walked through the lobby at the winter meetings.
    Ridiculous.
    I’ll admit that Gammo shows his colors more often than I’d like, but he’s still one of the best in the business.

    I'mBillMcNeal January 7, 2009, 11:48 pm
  • Sorry about the Newbury Street crack. That was a bit snarky. Especially from a guy who lives in the Chicago suburbs. I failed to stay above the fray. …
    Andrew, I think that’s one definition of Good Faith.
    What it means to me in this case is that he led several teams to think that Tex was available to all suiters for the right price when in reality he was not.
    Boras knew all along that Tex preferred the Yankees and that no matter what any team offered the Yankees would up the ante.
    That’s not good faith.
    Let me ask you, honestly, knowing how badly the Yankees needed Tex, how badly they needed him to not play for Boston and how much money they had to spend do you really believe that there was any way in Hell that, when all was said and done, Tex was not going to end up with the Yankees?

    I'mBillMcNeal January 7, 2009, 11:57 pm
  • On the other hand …
    There’s a lot of emotion flowing through this site and I love it. It’s freakin’ January.
    Cubs-Cardinals can kiss my ass. THIS is the only rivaly that matters.
    Five weeks until pitchers and catchers report.

    I'mBillMcNeal January 8, 2009, 12:00 am
  • “Not FA, but Matsuzaka’s posting fee/signing is in the realm of discussion. I realize.. sealed bids.. and I think it was a genius move by Boston.”
    I don’t know that I can agree that it’s in the realm of discussion, AG.
    The Yankees didn’t have a chance to counter Boston’s sealed bid.

    I'mBillMcNeal January 8, 2009, 12:02 am
  • Sounds like you SFs have it about right – except for the fact that had the Yanks never gotten back involved, Teixeira likely would have signed with the Sox and for 170 million and without a no-trade. Cause the Nationals weren’t pulling a Hicks.

    Rob January 8, 2009, 8:01 am
  • Rob: Except there’s no way the Yankees weren’t going to get involved.
    Cashman’s plan all along – and I have no evidence of this, just a hunch – was to wait in the wings while it was hashed out in the papers and then make an offer when Boras told him what the top offer was.
    Not suggesting this was nefarious. Just the way to do business when you know you can trump any offer.

    I'mBillMcNeal January 8, 2009, 8:10 am
  • Cause the Nationals weren’t pulling a Hicks.
    And the Yankees were NEVER NOT GETTING BACK INVOLVED. Pardon the double negative. It would have made NO sense for them to stay away. Occam’s Razor, again – the Yankees had a need, the money, the salary spot, the new stadium, etc. etc. In fact, had they not gotten back involved it would have been utter negligence on the part of Cashman, a complete failure of his GM responsibilities. He’s not that dumb, he’s not incompetent. And that’s what it would have been to not get back involved.
    As an aside:
    Let’s speculate for a moment, about that Texas trip by Henry. What statement from Boras would get Henry on a plane? For me it had to be something on the order of “we can wrap this up if you come down here, we’ve got a deal that can work”. Now if you are the Sox and you don’t do too much parsing and you’re excited and you think you’re about to sign Tex, you overlook the fact that Boras says “WE” have a deal that can work, meaning he and Teixeira (the 200M+ deal with the options” and not “we” as in the grander Sox-inclusive “we”. Boras can then legitimately say he never implied that there was a done deal, he didn’t mislead. But it’s also a really suspect kind of statement. When Henry arrives, he says “I thought you said we had a deal that can work”, and Boras says “We do. Tex and I will sign right now on these terms, we can work with that deal”, and Henry walks out.
    Again, this is rampant speculation (but hey, I am no NY Post reporter and I have a lot of spare time down here in my basement), but it would fit with Boras’ MO, where he can claim “there was a legitimate, acceptable offer out there” (to him, of course, not to anyone else in that room), and then get reporters talking about the Sox’ involvement. Boras was, again, masterful in this orchestration. But I do believe he left (marginal, to an extent) money on the table for his client in a more aggressive grab from the Sox. The Angels wised up faster than the Sox, to their credit.

    SF January 8, 2009, 9:00 am
  • And the Yankees were NEVER NOT GETTING BACK INVOLVED.
    Except there was a week and half where they weren’t involved (unless you think Cashman is lying too) and where the Sox had walked away from the table.
    I understand where you guys think the Sox got played. But it’s pretty obvious they had an inferior offer (lacking a no-trade). We can argue all we want about what would have constituted a fair offer from the Sox. But the fact is they never offered one that was competitive with the Yanks or Nationals. It’s pretty obvious why they lost out, and sure they might always have if the Yanks wanted to be involved. But I’m far from convinced the Yankees wanted to be involved unless the price was right. It was.

    Rob January 8, 2009, 9:06 am
  • The Yankees made a video presentation for Teixeira before the Sox’ Texas trip. You don’t go that far with someone and not be involved the whole way. Lack of an offer should not be confused with lack of involvement. Boras and Teixeira knew the Yankees would be involved, and they knew the Yankees would sign him.

    Paul SF January 8, 2009, 9:47 am
  • i’m sure he’s a great guy, but gammons should retire, and maybe go fishing with murray…i’ve been saying that for a couple of years now…he’s an embarrassment and unabashed homer…not that there’s anything wrong with being a homer, but it colors his commentary very uncomfortably…
    i’m on board with the whole “boras is a sleazeball” bunch, but i’ll reiterate my previous sentiments that the sox are trying too hard to place blame for this botched negotiation outside their own organization…i understand the psychology of that…heck, i even defend hank once in awhile for his right to say goofy stuff…but you can’t ignore the fact that the sox were in these negotiations until they took themselves out…perhaps relenting on their policy not to give a no trade would have gotten the deal done, perhaps not…the apparent fact that tex had a “preference” for the yankees means nothing frankly unless the terms of the offers are nearly identical…there’s no evidence anywhere that suggests he would take an inferior offer just for the privilege of playing in pinstripes…i suspect that there are very few, if any, cases of free agents giving discounts to their favorite teams…getting the best deal, and playing for the yanks was apparently a win-win for him, but the priority all along was to get the best deal…we’ve been led to believe that at some point the sox had the better offer, until they didn’t…so, with the ball back in their court, all the sox had to do was beat the yankees offer…simple…negotiations 101…once one of the bidders reach their breaking point [reference henry's e.mail], game over…that’s how it works guys…you don’t have to like it, but boras, with all his warts, played the game the right way, no rigging, no cheating, no borderline ethics…the sox concluded that the auction was getting too rich for them, and decided they’d gone far enough, and since we’re speculating so rampantly, i’ll suggest that they were pissed about it, and henry fired off his e.mail…no bluff-calling, no brilliant negotiating tactic…they were pissed because the yanks were about to trump them with yet another high profile free agent, and they were going to look foolish to their fans for passing on a guy for what some would perceive to be a few lousy million a year [many fans don't pay attention to stuff like no-trade clauses and other incentives...the money gets all the attention by the media]…and i suspect many fans get tired of hearing the “we have our limits” disclaimer, as true as it might be…henry’s very public e.mail was damage control to assuage the fans that everything that could be done had been done, and it probably was…sox fans are pissed, and they have every right to be…but not at just the player or the agent, who used the negotiating game and leveraged the interest of multiple teams to their advantage…i agree with the argument that henry’s e.mail probably torpedoed boras’ chance to squeeze more yankee money, but i don’t agree that was his motive…he was pissed about being brought to texas under what he perceived to be false pretenses, and pissed about how he’d explain losing another free agent to the yankees, so he took his ball, and went home…at that point i don’t think he had a choice…he was hamstrung by his own policies…it’s time to rethink the whole no-trade thing guys if you really want to level the negotiating field with other teams…

    dc January 8, 2009, 9:49 am
  • You know how I also know the Sox weren’t played?
    Just considering the Nationals offer, Teixeira still got the best possible package from the Yankees. That is, if they were only competing against the Nationals, they still would have won AND Teixiera gets a contract at the market rate.

    Rob January 8, 2009, 9:55 am
  • I am not arguing that the Sox got “played”. As I said earlier they aren’t patsies or stupid or naive or inexperienced with Boras. I am also not arguing that the Sox’ offer was superior – it was not, most clearly. Teixeira and Boras used all their powers to get the highest offer on the table. They were successful. But the circumstances over how they accomplished this are interesting and worth discussing.
    In my opinion, Rob, you are confusing a discussion over the circumstances of how this all went down with the results themselves, which aren’t really in dispute.

    SF January 8, 2009, 9:57 am
  • to place blame
    I guess the term “blame” is what I object to. For me, this isn’t about “blaming” anyone. It’s not about blaming the Sox for being naive, or the Yankees for being wealthy, or Boras for being a slimeball (not to me he isn’t). Blame is simply the wrong word. As you know, dc, I am intrigued by these business dealings. They fascinate me to no end, as we’ve discussed quite a bit over the years here. The Sox and Yanks as a pair of teams provide an amazing case study (along with Boras, other players, other situations) of how rivals challenge each other, negotiate, succeed, and fail. I know it is unrealistic for everyone to separate animosity towards their rival, or jealousy, or anger from a discussion about business dealings, but that’s my (naive?) hope, and what makes these discussions frustrating in moments.

    SF January 8, 2009, 10:01 am
  • i’m with you sf…i said yesterday that certain facets of this discussion were futile…having said that, i do share your interest in the mechanics, gamesmanship, and strategy that goes on with these negotiations…it’s facinating really, and i [naively] wish more of the details could be exposed to enrich the discussion…unfortunately, as you say, the other stuff, can’t be eliminated because it’s human nature, especially when all we can do is speculate about how something happened, what might have been said, or what someone was thinking…i know my defensive hackles go up when the speculation is anti-yankee…sorry if that offends or degrades the discussion, but like you, i have a great regard for the facts, and speculations, particularly rampant ones, are not facts…
    substitute “criticism” for “blame”…from some of the comments posted, i sensed a need to criticize someone for how these negotiations evolved, or at least divert criticism away from some who should share in it…i still believe that’s the case with some, but if i’ve miscontrued your intent in any way, i stand corrected…

    dc January 8, 2009, 10:47 am
  • Typepad is messing with me. I cannot get to the comments past the first page.

    I'mBillMcNeal January 8, 2009, 12:29 pm
  • RE: The last two replies from dc and Paul, I’m with you guys all the way on this.
    I want the facts and the lack of forthrightness about those facts from all involved is what has led to the wild speculation about what really happened.
    That said, I firmly believe that Tex was Yankee bound from the beginning, and that the other teams were used to get the most money possible.
    Although I have no proof, this is how I believe it unfolded: At some point, there was a conversation between Cash and Boras that went something like this:
    Cash: “We want him. We’ll get him. But we’re not going to make an offer now. Just let us know your deadline, your terms and the highest offer at that point and we’ll make sure that our offer is the best one.”
    Boras: “That’s all I need to hear. Tex wants to be a Yankee. And you were great last night in bed.”
    Can anyone tell me why this is not only plausible, it’s probable? (Except for the smarmy last comment, of course.) Everything I have read suggests that this is exactly what happened.
    p.s. Sox apparently have reached a deal with Smoltz. I love that we have this guy.

    I'mBillMcNeal January 8, 2009, 12:45 pm
  • you are confusing a discussion over the circumstances of how this all went down with the results themselves
    I think I could say the same about you. I’m fascinated by how the option years came up with the Sox. Whereas most SFs here seem convinced the purpose of those options was solely to drive up the price for the Yankees and only the Yankees. By me pointing out the lack of a no-trade, I was exactly concerned with the process rather than the results.
    The time gap between when the text message was sent and when the Yankees gave a final offer tells me they were in monitoring mode. They did the same thing with Beltran. But just because the Yankees had that interest didn’t make them a sure thing. So even though Teixeira may have had a mutual interest, it makes perfect sense for why other negotiating was still on-going. After all, if you have a client with a preference, but without a matching offer, the obvious thing to do is to keep other options open.
    If the Yankees sometimes have to pay a premium to convince players to play for them, I don’t see why it should be any different for the Sox. Why is this shocking to some? I know the Sox front office has continually conditioned their fanbase that they can’t compete financially with the Yankees. But their efforts in this case show that’s just not the case. If the free agent had preferred Boston, it could just as easily broken the other way (unless they value a no-trade clause).
    These negotiations were par for the FA course. Something like how Drew’s went down is much, much, shadier in my book, and much less so, with Lowell and the Phillies last year or Furcal and Atlanta this year.

    Rob January 8, 2009, 1:14 pm
  • Just read the Gammons interview. It’s sad how cynical he has become. It’s like he’s forgotten his favorite team won two series in the last five years.
    Any case, is it obvious now that the text message from Henry was meaningless? Gammons has them negotiating on the 21st.

    Rob January 8, 2009, 3:14 pm

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