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That’s right, friends. It’s another edition of "Late Night With Santana." At this rate, we’re gonna need a little "Black Magic" to get this thing done.

In two minutes (or two hours, whatever), the Red Sox and Twins will reopen negotiations that could last well into the night. Greeeaaaaaat.

We’ll be here. Waiting …

135 comments… add one
  • Get some sleep, Paul. Chances are nothing will happen.

    AndrewYF December 5, 2007, 12:01 am
  • It’s not in my makeup, Andrew. I’ll just toss and turn all night. Might as well spend it being “productive.”
    As it was, I could barely concentrate on “No Country For Old Men” this evening…

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:03 am
  • from the Star Tribune:
    ” learned tonight that, despite what Hank Steinbrenner says, the Twins have not been told by the Yankees that they have pulled out of the Johan Santana sweepstakes.
    The Twins are expected to hold more late-night negotiation sessions tonight, and it doesn’t look like anything is close. If something develops, we’ll post it here. But I’m going to jinx myself and predict that nothing will go down tonight. So go to bed.
    I already regret writing that….
    I still find it hard to believe that there’s not at least one L.A. team getting involved in this… ”
    Paul, please get some sleep!

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:05 am
  • I can’t believe after all that talking today, the teams aren’t that close. I mean, what’s been going on then? Have the various leakers ALL been talking out of their butts??

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:06 am
  • How was it, Paul? Some reviews said it was the best Coen brothers movie. That’s saying a lot.

    AndrewYF December 5, 2007, 12:07 am
  • they’ve been leaking out of their butts (gross). I think maybe this is why the YFSF vets are jaded by the hot stove season. A lot of noise, maybe not so much action.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:08 am
  • I just got back from work! Brewing tea now. Lets rock this casba! *goes and catche sup on what he missed.. finds out what the latest offers are, who that cf in BP’s article from earlier is, and how the Detroit Tigers BLOCKBUSTER trade has affected the Angels jumping in*

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:09 am
  • FWIW, I saw it and liked it as well. It’s not my favorite Coen Brothers, but it’s the best one in a few years. This one like Blood Simple, Fargo–very dark, not much humor and warmth. Tommy Lee Jones is great, delivering McCarthy’s language perfectly. Bardem is haunting and crazy. Brolin is good.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:10 am
  • That movie was awesome, loved it.
    As I said in the last thread, there are only so many iterations they can try to work out a deal. I dont really understand how much else there is to discuss at this point. The Twins arent gonna discover a new prospect in the sox minor league system that they didnt know about for the last week. If the sox havent put their best offer on the table yet the better do it before the rest of us go mad! I dont think this is a war of attrition, so color me a bit confused at this point.

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 12:10 am
  • I enjoyed it, Andrew. The acting and writing is very good, but the source material (Cormac McCarthy) is excellent, so that helps.
    I’m a little biased, as the movie is based in a lot of the small towns I’ve covered as a reporter in West Texas, and I really enjoyed seeing roads, signs and buildings I recognized.
    It’s definitely different, though. I wouldn’t go in expecting a traditional movie. I can see a lot of regular moviegoers turned off by it.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:10 am
  • The program I had on my Cell NEVER updated. All it EVER had was the ‘early this morning’ Stark article and, eventually, the Tigers explosion

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:11 am
  • Speaking of movies… am I the only YFSFer that is indescribably excited about Sweeny Todd? I mean.. awesome musical (I love me some Sondheim).. then you add Tim Burton AND Johnny Depp? Yes, yes, yes.

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:13 am
  • Well, Dio, that’s because nothing happened. :-P I was fully expecting a bit more finality when I came home tonight.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:13 am
  • Bardem was brilliant, I think that he will get an oscar nomination for sure on that one. I read somewhere that he was so successful at freaking everyone out that at the party after the premier nobody would talk to him. After seeing it, id believe it.

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 12:13 am
  • Had not the Twins said they wanted to get something done today? Are they just stringing the Red Sox along, hoping the Angels or Dodgers jump in? If so, the Sox at some point have to stop the madness…

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:14 am
  • Wow. You weren’t kidding. The onloy thing I see is the Gammons update that counter BP’s article by sayign Kalish is iN ADDITION to Lowrie, thus indicating that Jacoby isnt in that package.. and that was hours ago.

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:16 am
  • I think its clear the twins arent getting what they want from anyone at this point. They need to decide to take the sox or the yanks best offer or fold up the tent and head home. This is nuts.

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 12:16 am
  • I love that musical as well, although I can’t say I’m super encouraged by the previews so far, and musicals on film…well, they can be debacles. Also, I haven’t liked a Tim Burton film in a while. Probably Ed Wood was the last one I liked. I guess I find him boring, superficially wilfully weird.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:16 am
  • Yeah, he brought that character to life. I was impressed with Woody Harrelson, too. His scene with Bardem is just amazingly acted.
    Incidentally, Sanderson — where Tommy Lee Jones’ character is sheriff — is one of my favorite little towns. I spent a day there doing interviews for a story on the 40th anniversary of the flood that swept through there in 1965, one of the deadliest in Texas history. It’s got a lot of character, not all of it good. A great setting for the book/movie.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:17 am
  • Burton did a good job with “Sleepy Hollow.” Probably my favorite of his movies, and I’m a fan.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:18 am
  • I also love Cormac McCarthy, although I haven’t heard great things about that novel. I heard from some people it was his worst in fact.
    Blood Meridian is his masterpiece in my opinion.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:19 am
  • I read a review (Harry of Aint It Cool) that Sweeny is on par with, if not surpassing, Ed Wood. Actually I love the trailers I like that they are going very dark and I think Depp will play the role well. Even hsi singing (what we get of it) doesnt offend me and I tend to be picky

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:20 am
  • You know, I haven’t seen Sleepy Hallow, so I’m being a bit unfair. I’ve heard good things about it.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:20 am
  • OCfOM is fantastic. McCarthy’s language shines; I felt myself growing into a texan ranch hand just reading it.
    And I am also looking forward to Sweeney Todd, but I also a theatergeek.
    Enough of that.
    What did folks do before the internet? i feel so incredibly informed (which paradoxically means I know nothing at all) that I can only imagine what an internet message board would have been liked during the Reggie negotiation in ’78. Or the 13 times that George fired Billy? Or Mantle/Maris versus the Babe.
    I don’t mean to quote Bill Simmons, but we have nothing to complain about.
    Aside: i’m getting tired of the Miguel Cabrera = HOF talk. I guess I’m getting burned up.

    Carlos YF December 5, 2007, 12:21 am
  • Dio, I think I’ve been unimpressed with what I can hear of the music and singing on the trailers. But you know what they say about small sample size:)

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:21 am
  • “The Road” may be one of the most captivating and profoundly affecting novels I’ve ever read. I still find myself, months later (and yes I read it before Oprah jumped on the bandwagon), thinking about certain passages.
    “No Country” is a frustrating novel, to me. I loved every page until the last two chapters, which ramble on with no discernable point and peter out with no real conclusion. You don’t need a conclusion, but you do need to conclude, you know what I mean?

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:21 am
  • Im most excited for there will be blood. Paul Thomas Anderson is one of my favorite directors and Daniel Day-Lewis is brilliant. That one has all the makings of a classic.

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 12:22 am
  • I read “The Road” when it came out. “Affecting” is the right word.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:23 am
  • One of the things I like about “No Country” is exactly what you describe, Carlos. He accurately captures the language and dialect of small-town West Texas without turning it into country-bumkin hick talk, like a lot of authors and screenwriters seem wont to do.
    Helps that McCarthy is from West Texas, and Tommy Lee Jones has a ranch out this way.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:23 am
  • Wait, Paul Thomas Anderson has a movie coming out?

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:24 am
  • I’m ready to give Daniel Day Lewis the Best Actor Oscar just for his performance in the trailer, Sam.
    “These ………. people.”

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:24 am
  • Wee! More theater geeks! All right.. who here are actors and who here represents the vastly better looking and superior in every way Techies?

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:24 am
  • Situations like this one are where i appreciate Hank’s mouth…
    Yankees VP Hank Steinbrenner said he wouldn’t pay the same kind of price for Dan Haren he would have for Johan Santana.
    Steinbrenner called that price for Haren “ridiculous” and vowed: “It won’t happen, not with us.” The A’s aren’t believed to have a lot of interest in Melky Cabrera, so they’d probably ask for at least Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson.

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 12:25 am
  • Apparently, Tommy Lee convinced the Coen Brothers to shoot it in Western Texas even though they had planned to use Arizona for financial reasons.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:25 am
  • Ever since I saw the posted for PTA’s movie, I got chills. What a great title. “There Will Be Blood.” I even love the font of the title.
    It seems so outside PTA’s usual quirk, and I’m looking forward to Paul Dano. Yay for supressed homicidal rage!

    Carlos YF December 5, 2007, 12:25 am
  • Techie here! I did light design for about 5 years til I got sick of all the actor types…

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 12:26 am
  • That’s a smart decision. Everyone thinks the West looks the same. Arizona is NOTHING like West Texas. You might get away with filming a West Texas scene in southern New Mexico, but people think desert is desert. It ain’t. :-)

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:28 am
  • neither-I’m the son of a theater professor though. I grew up listening to Sondheim.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:28 am
  • The font for “There Will Be Blood” is the same used for Sinclair’s book, “Oil!”, which it adapts.
    I did movie and theatre reviews in college. That’s my extent, unfortunately.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:29 am
  • I’ve done light design, set design, stage crew, sound and props. I’ve also Stage Managed and Tech Directed.

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:33 am
  • Ha, well I have good friends originally from South Carolina, Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Florida. Until I knew them, back when was growing up in Brooklyn, I thought all southerners were the same.
    I dare not say that now. My texan friends will kill me in my sleep.
    But as an ex-aspiring screenwriter, you are always trying to communicate something to an audience. And getting an accent/patois right sometimes risks confusion with the audience. A guy growing up in Houston and a guy growing up in Waco are both texans, but some outsiders may get confused if you get all specific. Generic texan may be easier. (As an aside, as a latino, I used to say a similar bit: why is this character, who is supposedly cuban speaking like a mexican?)
    I didn’t know if the west texas in Old Country was “authentic”, but it felt like a special time-worn land, filled entirely with dirt-cheap motels and highways. It felt special, almost as special as the Minnesota in Fargo.
    I’m also a techie while being a theatergeek and a sports fanatic. :)

    Carlos YF December 5, 2007, 12:33 am
  • Nick didnt you go to Wesleyan? I feel like everyone there had some involvement with at least one show there no matter how obscure it was.

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 12:34 am
  • *was born to wear Blacks*

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:36 am
  • Update!
    Gordon Edes
    “If the Sox do not trade for Johan Santana, an outcome last night as plausible as a deal going down, it may stem in part from some ambivalence on the part of club officials on whether they really want to do it. Theo Epstein and Co. enjoy watching the kids develop and win–going out and signing Santana makes them more like the Yankees. And surprisingly, there might be a greater willingness, at least on the part of some on the baseball ops side, to let Jacoby Ellsbury go in a Santana deal, and hold onto Lester, the belief being that 1) Ellsbury’s value will never be higher and 2) Lester may have a higher upside than he’s given credit for. At the same time, the Sox are well aware of the attachment many fans already have developed to Ellsbury. On the other hand, how do you pass up the chance to acquire Santana, a pitcher as special as Pedro Martinez was a decade ago?
    These are the thoughts that get kicked around while waiting to see if anything develops at the midnight gathering of the Sox brass, development people and scouts. ”

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:36 am
  • I did go to Wesleyan, but I never did anything with theater. Just went to the shows. I had a couple of friends who were actors, but, in general, the theater scene scared me:) I did have a morning show on WESU that had a following of about 5 people. My imitation of Dougie B. was quite popular among the fans!

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:37 am
  • Even when the Yanks are in it.. they have an effect on it. It’s so.. so.. them! Grrr!

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:37 am
  • Authentic enough for me, Carlos. Of course, Jones doesn’t have to stretch far, and Bardem’s got his own crazy going. They weren’t drawlig Georgia-style, and that’s good enough. I’m not a native, so I imagine someone who grew up here could pick up problems better than I. I’m having to work to keep my speech accentless ;-)

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:38 am
  • Thats a better WESU slot than my buddy had when we lived in Clark. 3 am on sunday night/monday morning. Im pretty sure that 5 listeners would have been a record for him.

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 12:39 am
  • Who is Gordon Edes?
    “Like the Yankees?”
    This is why I’m growing fond of Hank; he seems to want to kill this Yanks versus Sox thing. Its one thing to be two deeply committed fan bases, its one thing to claw each other for an AL East Title and a championship, but this “We are the Sox, we will never be like the Yankees” good versus evil, evil empire thing is grating on my nerves.
    Make the choice that is best for you, not the one that makes you the anti-Yankees.

    Carlos YF December 5, 2007, 12:41 am
  • My friend and I started out doing the 4am to 6am shift. We had a countdown at 4:20 for all the hippies lighting up and we cursed like sailors unaware of FCC rules. WESU never got caught. Once a real-life hippe called into our show. That was awesome.
    I have no idea what Edes’ post means. Are the Sox backpeddling? Was this a bluff the whole time?

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:42 am
  • Gordon Edes is a columnist for the Globe

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:42 am
  • I’ve lived in the Midwest for nearly 10 years now after Brooklyn, I know what its like to wake up one morning without your accent.

    Carlos YF December 5, 2007, 12:43 am
  • Ah, Wes. How kind of you to do the 420 countdown, at least you knew your audience well.

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 12:43 am
  • Hey, look, baseball!
    Edes:
    “If the Sox do not trade for Johan Santana, an outcome last night as plausible as a deal going down, it may stem in part from some ambivalence on the part of club officials on whether they really want to do it.”
    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/12/mixed_emotions.html
    It goes on and finishes with:
    “These are the thoughts that get kicked around while waiting to see if anything develops at the midnight gathering of the Sox brass, development people and scouts.”
    Ugh. Just do the deal already. It’s Johan Freaking Santana!
    And do the Sox really feel they’re so much less like the Yankees? If they do, they’d do better to realize who the only other serious suitors in this mess are.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:44 am
  • They don’t want to be like the Yankees is the funniest reason I’ve heard to back out of a trade. Are teams psychogical living beings?

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:44 am
  • Im not sure either Nick. It may be that they are losing interest. Or it may be hogwash heresey

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:45 am
  • Oops, missed your update, Dio.
    The main thing to me is Edes’ feeling that the trade not getting done is just as likely as it getting done.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:45 am
  • I don’t liek the “we arent the Yankees” reason either. If you genuinely think you have a better chance to win logn term with the kids, stick with them. If you geniunly think Santana is a bigger help with th cost, then make the damn trade

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:46 am
  • That is beyond absurd. Cold feet on the prospects + $20+ mil a year sounds more plausible

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 12:47 am
  • And really, considering the deals reportedly on the table, there’s no excuse to get cold feet about the prospects. Money? The Sox sometime between Pedro Martinez and Daisuke Matsuzaka decided they were going to stop pretending Boston was a small market, so that doesn’t wash either.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:49 am
  • Speaking of horses, what about other holes in the Yankees? I’m watching ‘Baseball Tonight’ on tape-delay and i somehow got the impression that Johan Freakin’ Santana isn’t the only player available. Who knew?
    The yanks right now have Pettitte/Hughes/Wang/Chamberlain/Mussina with Kennedy hanging around. Pettitte is our #1 in this and who knows what will happen with that? So trust in Hughes/Chamberlain becoming the #1 of the future, or splurge on Haren? Can Haren be the #1 of the future? Are there other pitchers available?
    1b – be nice to get a good 1b, or do we feel some hope that Betemit can grow into that role for 2009-onward? I was lusting over Texiera(sp?) back last year.
    Outfielders? How long do we think Abreu/Matsui have? 2-3 more years? Do we know of any Double/Triple-A guys that we can fit into the future plans?
    See, i’m so burned out i’m not thinking about 2008, i’m thinking about 2010.

    Carlos YF December 5, 2007, 12:49 am
  • Hey check out the Stephen A Smith article beign lampooned on Fire Joe Morgan. Wow.. I mean.. wow..
    Is he seriously sayign the first admendment shouldn tapply to the internet?

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:49 am
  • I don’t want to be a conspiracy theorist here, but if the deal doesn’t go down and it is the result of the Sox backing out of the deal, you’d have think that perhaps the Sox were truly just interested in bidding the Yanks up.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:51 am
  • You’re right, Nick. I would be seriously disappointed in the Sox brass if that was truly their intention. I just can’t imagine that’s true though.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:54 am
  • I think..yup…thats what he’s saying. That in able to “disseminate informations to the masses” there should be some training process. In essence that distribution be limited only to the properly accredited.
    All I can say to Screaming-A, who I used to love is, you can’t stop the signal.

    Carlos YF December 5, 2007, 12:55 am
  • There arent any other ways to describe it if thats the case. That said it will likely be successful.

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 12:55 am
  • I mean, I can’t imagine the Sox will bow out. They may hold firm on a deal, with the Twins walking away. I can see that as the most likely case if a deal isn’t done.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 12:57 am
  • God, I want Johan to be traded so badly to an NL team right this second!

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:57 am
  • And this whole past 24 horus was for.. what? Show?
    Meh. I still expect the Angels to pop in now that thy lost Cabrera

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 12:57 am
  • Paul. You may or may not agree but even if the sox dont bow out, i think holding firm could be read in the same way. Who knows?

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 12:58 am
  • The Edes post suggests the beginning of spin and excuse-making on the part of the Sox brass. It’s a weird update.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 12:59 am
  • Honestly, if an NL team came in and swept Johan away, I’d be ecstatic. Let it be the Phillies. LORD knows they need pitching. Of ocurse, they wont pay him

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 1:00 am
  • Well, it seems the Sox have increased their offers by including Kalish, and that was after the Yankees’ deadline passed. So it seems there are efforts at accomodation being made apart from the Yankee offers. At some point, the Sox have to say, “We can’t go any higher,” just like the Yankees (supposedly) did.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 1:00 am
  • I honestly think the Edes update was just what he said it was — random thoughts kicking around his and his colleagues’ heads to pass the time.
    Maybe he was subtly passing on more than that, and I’m too sleepy/blindly hopeful to see it. I’m not going to deny that possibility, at any rate.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 1:01 am
  • Didnt they include Kalish at the expense of someone else. It may have been an effort to improve the offer without really changing it much.

    sam-YF December 5, 2007, 1:02 am
  • Of course it could all be some bizarre tactic to conivnce the Twins tim is running out without being an asshole like Hank.

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 1:02 am
  • yeah, Paul, I guess I didn’t bother to read his last paragraph. I can see it as pure speculation on his part.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 1:04 am
  • Depends who you read, Sam. Peter Gammons indicated Kalish was ON TOP of the four man Lester deal. BP indicated he subsititued for Lowrie in some form (that was the whole Lester, “a centerfielder”, Masterson, Kalish) thing.
    I trust Peter Gammons more.

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 1:04 am
  • Gammons later said Kalish was part of a three- or four-person deal. He might have replaced Lowrie, but I think details since this afternoon seem to have gotten really fuzzy. Probably because there’s two different deals on the table, each with a different set of prospects but with some overlap. Confusing.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 1:06 am
  • I suddenly have the image of the Sox suddenly announcing they’ve traded Lester + prospects to the As for Haren.. out of the blue.

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 1:12 am
  • I just can’t do it two nights in a row. If this gets done without me, so be it.
    Good night, all.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 1:13 am
  • Gammons said nothing about 3 person deal that I see
    Here’s what I read, from the blog,
    3:28 p.m., from Peter Gammons
    • The Twins and Red Sox could be getting closer to a Johan Santana deal. Boston has sweetened its offer by adding a fifth player to the trade proposal — outfield prospect Ryan Kalish, a ninth-round draft pick in 2006 out of Red Bank Catholic High School (Shrewsbury, N.J.).
    fifth player indicates on top of the four person lester deal. Of course it was a freakin century ago so anythign could have changed

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 1:14 am
  • Weakling!
    But seriously, sleep well Paul. Everything will probably still be status quo in the morn

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 1:15 am
  • SO I guess I’m all thats left? Right then.

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 1:23 am
  • I’m out as well. See ya in the morning.

    Carlos YF December 5, 2007, 1:30 am
  • *holds the line!!* I shall not fall!

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 1:31 am
  • This is madness.
    This is SPARTA.
    Here is something to keep ya awake.
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/the_bonus/11/08/van.zant/index.html

    Carlos YF December 5, 2007, 1:32 am
  • *will be here until the GMs go to bed if anyone wants to talk*

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 1:48 am
  • This might be heresy here, but I’m with Edes – I don’t know if trading so many young kids for one guy is worth it. I mean, yeah, he’s Johan Freakin Santana (an aside, but I will kind of be sad when this trade period is over just because I like using the bold tags), but he’s just one player. I mean, what if – God forbid – he blows out his arm in spring training and never pitches again? What if he is beginning a short, precipitous decline? It’s just so much money and so much young talent for a single, albeit great, player… it makes me a little nervous, you know?

    Jackie (SF) December 5, 2007, 1:53 am
  • Oh, and I don’t think “we don’t want to be the Yankees” is something that the FO really thinks about (though the fanbase might). It’s just an easy barb. I don’t even think the trade would be a stereotypical Yankee move… usually when that insult gets used it’s to describe a huge sum of cash being lobbed at a declining free agent. (Not that the Yankees are the only team who do that, since I can name about 10 who did it last year alone.) Though I suppose any move to hike our payroll way over the luxury tax limit would have a whiff of Driven to it.

    Jackie (SF) December 5, 2007, 2:00 am
  • Im with you Jackie. I understand and with each passing hour I like the Deal less and less. I think the Sox might be the same way…
    Im beginign to doubt this happens

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 2:01 am
  • so where exactly is the airplane right now paul?…oops, sorry, wrong vigil…
    “…going out and signing Santana makes them more like the Yankees…”
    …puh-leez, gordon…ya mean “theo and co.” didn’t think the dice-k transaction, jd drew, and others already make them “more like the yankees”?…
    “…Theo Epstein and Co. enjoy watching the kids develop and win…”
    …yeah, like annibel sanchez and hanley ramirez…
    also nice to see the character assassinations continued in one of the earlier comments here…classy, sox fans…the latest one had profanity too…let’s see if it get’s deleted tomorrow…

    dc December 5, 2007, 2:06 am
  • DC, I think we’re all stressed out. I don’t know what character assassination you refer to, but most of us didnt get hardly any sleep last night and had a day full of tension over this. SO be forgiving of our slips, please. Its the stress and lack of sleep talking.

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 2:08 am
  • “…What if he is beginning a short, precipitous decline?…”
    i agree jackie…that’s the exact same concern i had about the yankees resigning arod…i mean, like santana, he’s a special player, but putting up that much dough over such a long period of time is very risky, not only from an injury perspective, but from an age/declining skills perspective…i guess the chance you take is a few special years with an greatly enhanced chance to win a few championships against a few years of baggy unfulfilled payroll expense…

    dc December 5, 2007, 2:12 am
  • dc,
    Did you read the contents of all the postings today, or just the character assassination as you call it?

    QuoSF December 5, 2007, 2:13 am
  • Im really doubting this happens now. Its taking too damn long. and Im almost glad…

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 2:19 am
  • Is it accepted thinking that Pitchers are more prone to performance-declining injuries than a position player?
    Thinking off the top of my head: I can think of several outfielders and third basemen that kept some of their value after shoulder and leg injuries, but i can’t think of a pitcher who after being hurt “remained the same.”

    Carlos YF December 5, 2007, 2:21 am
  • no problem dio…i may be a little defensive because:
    some of your colleagues came unglued monday night and ganged up on me when i made an obviously facetious observation about “some” sox fans assessments of certain sox players calling out no one in particular, no profanity…pretty innocent really, since i was making a gross exaggeration to prove a point…i was accused of misquoting “someone”, a phantom poster i guess, and my credibility was called into question…seemed silly, but insulting and a gross overreaction…one of the rules of the site is not to get personal or use profanity…i guess owners are fair game though, so i should continue to expect crude comments about hank s…i don’t know him personally, so i have no stake in how he’s treated, but i thought sox fans would critique other teams with the same decency they demand for their team…like i said, no problem, i’m already over it…i’m more just curious about how the hypocrites running this site will deal with it when they see it later on this morning…

    dc December 5, 2007, 2:30 am
  • Yeah, that pretty much is conventional wisdom, Carlos. And conventional ina good way, not in a small-ball, bunting, David Eckstein si worht money sort of way

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 2:31 am
  • what do you mean quo?

    dc December 5, 2007, 2:31 am
  • I ithink everyone, Sox fans AND Yanks fans, have been giving Hank crap for his mouth. I know if Theo talked like that I’d be nailing him to the wall

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 2:33 am
  • carlos, pitchers seem to be more brittle…not a very scientific observation on my part obviously…position players can remain valuable if they can still hit, but can’t run well, or can field but can’t hit, but with a pitcher, it’s pretty much one dimensional…and they use more than just their arm to throw, so an injury other than arm [see carl pavano’s butt injury for example] can still be a real problem….

    dc December 5, 2007, 2:36 am
  • Thats what my experience told me, but i wanted some outside confirmation.
    The amount of strain pitchers put on their bodies is definitely extreme.

    Carlos YF December 5, 2007, 2:40 am
  • I read once that pitching – th way you move when you do it – is an unnatural motion and thus, essentially, bad for the body. This is supposedly why Pitchers tend to wear down mor often than position players.

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 2:42 am
  • Thats it for the night, folks
    Gordon Edes
    “Another night passes, no deal between Sox and Twins. We’ll see what the morning brings”

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 2:43 am
  • “…talked like that…”
    talked like what?…doesn’t it seem reasonable to ask the twins to make up their mind?…the deal’s not getting any better…someone needed to send a message to the twins not to play the game of pitting the sox against the yanks well beyond the point at which it was already played out…i doubt theo is any less annoyed with the twins, but he somehow scores points for humoring them, instead of taking the same approach as the yanks…if the twins turned their backs on both teams instead of making one of the deals, or no deal, out of spite, they wind up the real loser…i could insert a joke about hank needing to teach theo to “grow a pair”, or the sox having changed their deal so many times that the twins may be so confused they won’t know what their getting until the guys show up for spring training, but that wouldn’t be fair, right?…

    dc December 5, 2007, 2:46 am
  • I dont beleive its appropriate to publically call out another team like that. Its something to be said personally, not publically. I see it as rude.

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 2:50 am
  • I hope I’m not committing any character assassinations… I’ll plead 2nd degree, if so (character manslaughter?)
    //i could insert a joke about hank needing to teach theo to “grow a pair”, or the sox having changed their deal so many times that the twins may be so confused they won’t know what their getting until the guys show up for spring training, but that wouldn’t be fair, right?…//
    Eh, go for it, I might laugh.

    Jackie (SF) December 5, 2007, 2:53 am
  • What I mean is “hypocrites hypocrites hypocrites”. “Apparently okay for Sox fans, apparently okay for Sox fans, apparently okay for Sox fans.” I dunno. Some other tired lines I’m sure…

    QuoSF December 5, 2007, 2:57 am
  • I know I wasnt posting HERE at the time, but I gave plenty of crap to the PTBs of the Sox during the Theo-Gorilla-Suit fiasco.
    As for the Twins, I think they are being jerks too and I’m as annoying with them as anyone. Still, Hank was wrong.

    Dionysus December 5, 2007, 3:02 am
  • I think nerves are just wearing thin right now, but I thought the whole point (or maybe just half the point) of this blog is to bring YFs and SFs together for some ribbing of the other fans/team/FO. And sure, a lot of that ribbing gets old quickly and is only loosely based in reality, but so what? YFs are never going to get SFs to drop the A-Rod slap, SFs are never going to get YFs to drop the 26 rings thing, but would you really want it any other way? I love this blog because 80% of the comments are the model of civility, but it wouldn’t be as much fun without 15 of the other 20% (with the other 5% being really nasty).
    And I didn’t realize that profanity was disallowed. Shit.

    Jackie (SF) December 5, 2007, 3:30 am
  • It’d be funny if Santana does not get dealt after all this hype, hoopla, and anticipation.
    Peter Gammons’ would be rendered speechless.

    SoxFan December 5, 2007, 7:23 am
  • As long as he doesn’t wind up in NY I don’t care what becomes the conclusion to the Santana talks.
    Nothing yet and hank doing his best alienation job. So far, so good.

    RS Fanbase December 5, 2007, 7:31 am
  • I think the Twins are really just jerking everyone’s chain. Jerks.

    Paul SF December 5, 2007, 7:43 am
  • Long-time lurker & very infrequent poster. Just wanted to say that I enjoyed the Film-Book-Theatre reviews and discussions overnight on the thread… It was a welcome change of pace from the marathon waiting game.
    [Also, I, too am a former theatre (dir./SM/tech/mngmnt.) person — currently in television.]
    Keep up the good work.

    Kluv (SF) December 5, 2007, 8:05 am
  • Good morning everyone, I see we still are Santana-less. Oh well, looks like I won’t get any work done today.

    Atheose December 5, 2007, 8:13 am
  • And for what it’s worth (to catch up to the previous conversation), Edward Scissors Hands was the best Tim Burton movie.

    Atheose December 5, 2007, 8:20 am
  • Since we’re talking movies, how long is it before they make Fever Pitch, the Sequel starring that guy from SNL and the lovely Drew Barrymore?
    They should always make a cheesy romantic comedy/baseball flick whenever the Sox win the World Series.

    SoxFan December 5, 2007, 8:53 am
  • starring that guy from SNL
    You mean Jimmy Falon, who plays the greatest Sox fan in HISTORY? Some of my favorite SNL skits were the ones of him screaming “NOMAHHHHH”. That and the Pete Schweaty ones.
    But I agree SoxFan, a new cheesy movie for every Sox World Series would be great. Think of the man-crush he could have on Josh Beckett!

    Atheose December 5, 2007, 9:03 am
  • The Detroit/Florida deal entered the news very quickly. Did the teams really hash it out in about an hour and a half? Or have they been working on it quietly for a longer period of time? I know what I think.
    Seems more and more to me like this Twins/Sox/Yankees/Angels/Rangers (yeah, the Rangers were mentioned last night) thing is a big joke, a real series of discussions that has turned into a circus due to the lack of discipline of both the teams involved and the press.

    SF December 5, 2007, 9:29 am
  • The Rangers? Hah! They’ll probably end up paying him for 3 years, and then trading him to the Yankees.

    Atheose December 5, 2007, 9:33 am
  • “…And I didn’t realize that profanity was disallowed….”
    apparently it’s not jackie…ok for some, not ok for others…
    yf’s post was informational, even if profane, while the profanity i was referring to was aimed at a specific person, even if he is only an owner that i don’t think any of us know personally, and apparently a more hated one than i realized…i’ll drop it after this comment, because it’s not worth it, as you said it will continue, the comment remains undeleted, so it’s time to move on…

    dc December 5, 2007, 10:35 am
  • “Soxfan: They should always make a cheesy romantic comedy/baseball flick whenever the Sox win the World Series.”
    huh? NO. you want more bad accents?
    that was my first thought upon hearing that Boston was the “hot new place” to film movies. more Diane Lane and Mayor Quimby-like accents from non-natives!!
    look guys, just let Matt, Ben, and Casey handle anything involving a B-accent. the rest of you please step aside…I’m looking at YOU, Fallon, you hack!

    Anonymous December 5, 2007, 11:12 am
  • Matt, Ben and Casey manage, their Cambridge classist eitism shining through, to caricature true Boston working class accents. Larry Fishburne did the best accent in recent years in Mystic River.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 11:15 am
  • “Do you like apples?”
    “Sure I guess”
    “Well I got her number. How do you like DEM apples?”
    I have the sudden urge to watch Good Will Hunting again.

    Atheose December 5, 2007, 11:19 am
  • uggh! After I watched it once, I felt like erasing my memory!

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 11:20 am
  • you know, I am starting to think I want the Yanks to get Santana, just for the prospect of this happening:
    October 2008, ALDS, Joe Buck: “this is Joe Buck, Tim McCarver, live from Yankee Stadium. well, Tim, the yanks got mussina and pettite on the 30-day DL, and Wang here can’t get out of the 3rd inning! with Joba Chamberlain on a 5-game suspension for starting that bench-clearing brawl last night, looks like Torre is gonna have to pitch Santana every other day at this point…Alex Rodriguez at the plate, batting .189 in his last 10 at-bats…”
    McCarver: “can we please talk about my inexplicable obsession with Manny Ramirez again? I don’t like focusing on Yankee faults – it hurts my brain”

    Lyndsay December 5, 2007, 11:20 am
  • “you know, I am starting to think I want the Yanks to get Santana”..
    what i meant was, I wish they HAD gotten Santana. past tense – I know they are out of it now and Hankie is being consoled by Cashman with a milkshake somewhere.

    Lyndsay December 5, 2007, 11:22 am
  • “Larry Fishburne did the best accent in recent years in Mystic River.”
    I don’t recall him having an accent past the first two scenes, so I am really hoping you’re being sarcastic on this one, Nick. I think Casey Affleck and Damon do the best accents I’ve heard in a while because they get all of the nuances down – for example, “MI-YEN” for “MINE”
    and the two absolute abominations of accents I’ve EVER heard were without a doubt Diane Lane in Perfect Storm and Laura Linney in Mystic. those two make my ears bleed.

    Lyndsay December 5, 2007, 11:28 am
  • “Matt, Ben and Casey manage, their Cambridge classist eitism shining through, to caricature true Boston working class accents.”
    what is “elitist” about it? because they weren’t working class by your definitions? Affleck’s dad was a janitor for crying out loud.
    I’m from Lexington – does it make me “elitist” that my parents, the children of city workers and cops, moved outta Mattapan?

    Lyndsay December 5, 2007, 11:36 am
  • Lyndsay, calm down. I’m joking. Just trying to rile the feathers of a cousin of mine who visits the site and is from the school the Afflecks went to. Actually, I am sorry for the joke. Shouldn’t have uttered it.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 11:38 am
  • no prob, I’m new here, not in on the inside jokes yet…anyway, its the afflecks so I don’t know why I’m going to such lengths to defend them anyway…I had like no sleep last night and a lot of coffee this morning is my excuse.
    Rindge and Latin you’re referring to? or Hahhhvad?

    Lyndsay December 5, 2007, 12:44 pm
  • no prob. It’s not even an inside joke on this site. Just in my own head, and between me and my cousin.
    Rindge and Latin. Actually my cousin was an actor there, who was a year below Casey Affleck. He likes those guys. I tend not to be a fan of their work.

    Nick-YF December 5, 2007, 1:04 pm
  • my mom went to R&L. the only other thing I know about the school is that “Pat Ewing went there too!” which must be beaten into the head of every graduate now.

    Lyndsay December 5, 2007, 1:25 pm
  • from one of the experts: “…Some other tired lines I’m sure…”
    …uh, nice comeback buddy…let it go

    dc December 5, 2007, 4:20 pm

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