A Nice Couple of Weeks

Lost in the tenacity of what is sometimes a zero-sum rivalry, we must note that these past couple of weeks have brought good things to both of our respective teams.  Dustin Pedroia wins the Rookie of the Year.  Curt Schilling returns to Boston for fewer dollars than he could have gotten on the open market.  The Sox’ ownership ponies up $12M+ per year and gets their World Series MVP and fan favorite Mike Lowell to (if you believe the reporting) shun a four year deal elsewhere and return to the fold.  Jorge Posada quickly re-signs with the only team he’s ever known.  Alex Rodriguez comes back to the table without his agent and not only hammers out a deal with the Yankees but wins an MVP trophy during the negotiations.  Mariano Rivera appears to be heading back to the Bronx, which feels, even to this Sox fan, right.  Neither team has traded their young stars-in-the-making while filling needs for 2008 and beyond.

No one-upsmanship.  No name-calling.  Just a hot stove with (dare we say it?) some good old-fashioned warmth.

90 comments… add one
  • Don’t forget Joe G! And Jose Molina! And the return of Bobby Meacham! MEACHAM!!!!

    YF November 19, 2007, 4:26 pm
  • i’m so ready for april to come.

    snowballa November 19, 2007, 4:28 pm
  • I agree that once Meacham came back into the fold, the rest was just gravy. What are we supposed to do for the rest of the long winter?
    Johan Santana better be made available soon.

    DR November 19, 2007, 4:44 pm
  • If you’re a SF, you only have to wait until March 25.

    Ron Newman November 19, 2007, 5:09 pm
  • Oh, I forgot about Girardi. Sorry. But Jose Molina?! Come on, not deserving of a hotlink!

    SF November 19, 2007, 5:30 pm
  • as much as i would love Santana to be a yankee, I almost hope the Twins dont shop him. It would be kinda unfair to the rest of baseball if one of our teams end up with him. We gotta share a little…

    sam-YF November 19, 2007, 5:40 pm
  • And not just old-fashioned warmth all around, but plenty of greenbacks as well.
    That’s 300+38+52+45+8=$443M in “old-fashioned warmth”.

    SF November 19, 2007, 5:41 pm
  • Nothing warms the heart faster than money. I’m sure I’ve heard that saying somewhere…

    Paul SF November 19, 2007, 5:52 pm
  • Who’s waiting ’til April? I’m jonesing for pitchers and catchers to report in February!!!
    It’s gonna be another great season of baseball. Last year was a lot of fun – in a tortured way – to watch the Yankees crawl back into playoff contention after a disastrous start. Can’t wait to see what Phil, Joba and IPK can do over a full season!

    nettles-yf November 19, 2007, 7:08 pm
  • It has been a few nice weeks. I just wish that spring training was already here.

    Rob SF November 19, 2007, 7:20 pm
  • Spring Training? I am enjoying the football season…I am enjoying the break from nightly stress.
    (and what does YF think of Tom Brady at this point? Still overrated? Still only good because of the system? Still successful just because he plays in a poor division? I wanna know!)

    SF November 19, 2007, 8:11 pm
  • What about the emergence of quote machine, all-around hilarious guy, Hank Steinbrenner? The world has changed these past two weeks. We have met Hank the Yank!

    Nick-YF November 19, 2007, 9:25 pm
  • Hank the tank has been great! I actually have confidence in him for no reason that i can logically explain.

    sam-YF November 19, 2007, 11:15 pm
  • Hankenstein! HO HEY!

    attackgerbil November 20, 2007, 2:27 am
  • What’s really exciting for me is the emergence of Ellsbury, Chamberlain, Buchholz, Hughes, Pedroia and Kennedy, not to mention Lester, Ocho Cinco, Cano and Melky from last year.
    I’m glad that both teams have really refocused their resources on developing young kids, and picking up the occasional Drew/Abreu to round things out.
    What is this?? A love fest?! Come on, the Sox won the Series this year. I should be more bitter! I’m just too excited about our kids to be that bitter, though. Weird feeling.

    yankees76 November 20, 2007, 3:12 am
  • Sorry, Cinco Ocho.
    Couldn’t resist!

    yankees76 November 20, 2007, 3:14 am
  • No. They are not “our kids.” That wouldn’t be right.

    doug YF November 20, 2007, 3:38 am
  • The Sox are the champs, the Patriots are rolling, the Celtics are on fire and even the Bruins are winning…the only thing that can kill the beast that currently is Boston sports is a #27 in 2008.
    ARod will win a championship!

    krueg November 20, 2007, 10:45 am
  • The beast is already dead. The New England Revolution lost in the MLS championship game for the second year in a row.

    doug YF November 20, 2007, 2:31 pm
  • Sing me a song, you’re a singer
    Do me a wrong, you’re a bringer of evil
    The devil is never a maker
    The less that you give, you’re a taker
    So it’s on and on and on, it’s heaven and hell, oh well
    The lover of life’s not a sinner
    The ending is just a beginner
    The closer you get to the meaning
    The sooner you’ll know that you’re dreaming
    So it’s on and on and on, oh it’s on and on and on
    It goes on and on and on, heaven and hell
    I can tell, fool, fool!
    Well if it seems to be real, it’s illusion
    For every moment of truth, there’s confusion in life
    Love can be seen as the answer, but nobody bleeds for the dancer
    And it’s on and on, on and on and on….
    They say that life’s a carousel
    Spinning fast, you’ve got to ride it well
    The world is full of kings and queens
    Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams
    It’s heaven and hell, oh well
    And they’ll tell you black is really white
    The moon is just the sun at night
    And when you walk in golden halls
    You get to keep the gold that falls
    It’s heaven and hell, oh no!
    Fool, fool!
    You’ve got to bleed for the dancer!
    Fool, fool!
    Look for the answer!
    Fool, fool, fool!

    martin November 20, 2007, 3:18 pm
  • Why are you quoting Dio/Sabbath?

    attackgerbil November 20, 2007, 3:28 pm
  • Because that song/lyrics fit anytime.
    Or I was just listening to it.

    martin November 20, 2007, 3:47 pm
  • So…. Has anyone tallied up where the Sox and Yanks payrolls now stand?
    (I know YFs think that a $60-$70 million difference is the same as zero, but I’m curious.)

    Anonymous November 20, 2007, 3:48 pm
  • So…. Has anyone tallied up where the Sox and Yanks payrolls now stand?
    (I know YFs think that a $60-$70 million difference is the same as zero, but I’m curious.)

    Hudson November 20, 2007, 3:49 pm
  • “(I know YFs think that a $60-$70 million difference is the same as zero, but I’m curious.)”
    If you find out that the gap has widened will it make it easier to talk to your Pittsburgh friends?

    Nick-YF November 20, 2007, 3:51 pm
  • Pittsburgh friends? When did this site become YFSFPF?

    Hudson November 20, 2007, 4:10 pm
  • The Yanks did get Pavano off the books, I think. Anyone else?

    Lar November 20, 2007, 4:17 pm
  • Nope, Pavano is on the books for 2008 for $11M; club has a $13M option for 2009 with a $1.35M buyout.

    attackgerbil November 20, 2007, 4:25 pm
  • Roger is off the books, and Andy P at this moment is as well. But we want Andy back.

    Nick-YF November 20, 2007, 4:26 pm
  • Oh.. and Pavano has a no-trade clause.

    attackgerbil November 20, 2007, 4:26 pm
  • they are gonna non-tender pavano i thought.

    sam-YF November 20, 2007, 4:28 pm
  • Oh.. and Pavano has a no-trade clause.
    Sweet. I wonder when we’ll start hearing the “Pavano is in good shape, and should be able to contribute” lines this offseason?

    Brad November 20, 2007, 4:30 pm
  • The deal Pavano and his agent originally worked out with the Yanks says he can’t be traded to the Mets because he never wanted to play in NYC. Yanks management was confused at the time, thought he misspoke. But it all makes sense now.

    Nick-YF November 20, 2007, 4:32 pm
  • You might be right Sam. Today’s the deadline I think.

    attackgerbil November 20, 2007, 4:33 pm
  • Sam, that was reported by George King, who might have been premature. He claimed the Yanks were resigned to letting him go and eating the rest of his contract to make roster space for another player on the 40 man. But the Yanks claim otherwise because it doesn’t serve them any good for other teams to know that.

    Nick-YF November 20, 2007, 4:34 pm
  • > it all makes sense now
    Nick, you are a funny man.

    attackgerbil November 20, 2007, 4:43 pm
  • is that non-tender comment a joke? The Yanks don’t have that option. Might release him.

    QuoSF November 20, 2007, 5:11 pm
  • the non-tender is a fantasy, but yes they could release him. No matter what happens,they are gonna pay him alot of money to do alot of nothing.

    sam-YF November 20, 2007, 5:16 pm
  • Yankees have a metric ton of dead weight on their payroll that is leaving forever after next year. The cost of the team they actually put on the field regularly is much less than $200 million.

    AndrewYF November 20, 2007, 7:28 pm
  • Lowell gets it just right with this soundbite about his re-signing for $37.5 million/three years:
    “The tough part was searching between four years from other teams and three years with the Red Sox, but I can’t say that I’m upset with the situation. I mean, how can you be upset with the money that I’m going to be making in the next three years and with the team that I believe is going to compete for a world title.”

    Hudson November 20, 2007, 8:22 pm
  • Been working on this for a post, but I am swamped. So here is what I have salary wise for the 2008 Yankees.
    Andy Pettitte $16M 2008 player option
    Free Agents:
    Roger Clemens Free Agent
    Luis Vizcaino Free Agent
    Doug Mientkiewicz Free Agent
    Jose Molina Free Agent
    Jim Brower Free Agent
    Ron Villone Free Agent
    Under Contract:
    Alex Rodriguez $27,000,000
    Jason Giambi $21,000,000
    Derek Jeter $20,000,000
    Bobby Abreu $16,000,000
    Mariano Rivera $15,000,000
    Jorge Posada $13,100,000
    Johnny Damon $13,000,000
    Hideki Matsui $13,000,000
    Mike Mussina $11,000,000
    Carl Pavano $11,000,000
    Kyle Farnsworth $5,500,000
    Kei Igawa $4,000,000
    Juan Miranda $2,070,000
    Jose Molina $2,000,000
    Andrew Brackman $1,130,000
    Robinson Cano $490,800
    Chien-Ming Wang $489,500
    Melky Cabrera $432,400
    Wilson Betemit $405,000
    Brian Bruney $395,545
    Joba Chamberlain $390,000
    Shelley Duncan $390,000
    Alberto Gonzalez $390,000
    Phil Hughes $390,000
    Ian Kennedy $390,000
    Ross Ohlendorf $390,000
    Edwar Ramirez $390,000
    Chris Britton $390,000
    Bronson Sardinha $390,000
    Matt DeSalvo $390,000
    Jeff Karstens $389,495
    Darrell Rasner $384,523
    Jose Veras $382,475
    Sean Henn $382,048
    Humberto Sanchez $380,000
    Andy Phillips $331,150
    Scott Patterson $330,000
    Nov-07 $183,492,936
    Opening Day 2007 $189,639,045

    John - YF November 20, 2007, 8:48 pm
  • Francisco Cervelli, Steven White and Jefferey Marquez were added to the 40 man, but I don’t have salaries for them.

    John - YF November 20, 2007, 8:56 pm
  • In this holiday season of goodwill to all men, I think it is long overdue that YFs and SFs join hands and sing a rousing rendition of Kumbabya.
    Who’s with me?!

    SoxFan November 20, 2007, 9:46 pm
  • should be: Kumbaya

    SoxFan November 20, 2007, 9:47 pm
  • > Sing me a song, you’re a singer
    Okay.. the smoker you drink, the player you get.
    Joe Walsh is funny too.

    attackgerbil November 21, 2007, 12:53 am
  • ARod should be significantly cheaper, and Mo/Posada’s contract are also backloaded, if I had to venture a guess. At least for 2008.
    Though I could misinterpret what you’re doing John. Thanks for the data anyhow!

    Lar November 21, 2007, 1:42 am
  • Kumbaya and Happy Thanksgiving to all warring factions. Even the visitors from NYYfans.
    As always, I pause to give thanks for my many blessings, such as actually living to see a Sox championship, or 2 or more, and that I didn’t grow up a diehard KC Royals fan.
    Also, remember your O’s friends in Maryland. It is like the Dark Ages down there.
    And yes, we are the Huns.

    CT ball fan -SF November 21, 2007, 8:04 am
  • Mike Lowell Thoughts on Yankees
    Yankees weren’t first for Lowell: Did Lowell really consider the Yankees as one of the teams he would sign with if things hadn’t worked out for the Red Sox? Sure he did. At least until Alex Rodriguez re-upped with New York, eliminating Lowell’s chances of playing the hot corner for the organization that originally drafted him.
    “Maybe I should preface it by saying that I understand that everyone in New England thinks that if you play for the Red Sox you have to hate the Yankees,” said Lowell. “Unfortunately, although every time we play the Yankees, I want to beat them, I came up through their system and there were a lot of people in that organization who were very instrumental to me getting to the big leagues and having the career that I’ve had.
    “Utter hatred for the organization, I just don’t have, because they actually helped me in a big way. It was definitely a factor because it was another organization that I was familiar with. Like I said, the parameters of where I weigh a team is: Are they going to be a playoff contender? A team that year in and year out will do what it can to win a world championship. Obviously the Yankees fit that bill. I will say it was somewhat diminished by the fact of moving to first. I think it would have been more of a consideration if it would have been staying at third. Once again, I’m very happy staying here and I look forward to the rivalry between the two teams.”

    Jh-Yf November 21, 2007, 8:22 am
  • Mike is a smart and rational (and likeable)guy, for sure. He’s got a great perspective on things.

    SF November 21, 2007, 8:57 am
  • Lowell’s a nice guy…however I can’t wait for him to start putting up lines of .280/.340/.470 again.

    AndrewYF November 21, 2007, 10:19 am
  • Seriously, let’s see how he hits at Fenway when teams learn to not give him anything on the inside of the plate.

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 10:35 am
  • Well, they had all season to figure that out Mike, but they didn’t. I saw Lowell pull balls pitched outside many times, I don’t think it’s as simple as you’re making it out to be, otherwise they would have done it.
    I fully expect Lowell to come back to earth a bit next year, but not because of an adjustment from the pitchers, because it was a career year for him.

    LocklandSF November 21, 2007, 11:14 am
  • Uh huh…in his 3rd year at Fenway, suddenly the adjustment will be made. That sounds like wishful thinking to me. Sorta like how the league would adjust to Papelbon in his second full year (they did a little…his numbers were magnificent instead of incredible).
    I don’t expect Lowell to hit .300 again with the Sox, but I do imagine you’ll be hearing that metallic clunk and watching him chug into 2nd pretty often the next couple years.

    Devine November 21, 2007, 11:15 am
  • The dude hit .373 at Fenway whereas he’s a .280 career hitter and hit .272 on the road in 2007. If you don’t expect him to hit .300 again, then we’re saying the same thing.
    And actually, he himself is the one who made an adjustment last year. The splits don’t carry over to his first year in Boston. If anything, he trained himself to wait for certain pitches in a certain zone. That’s why his hitting chart is so dramatic. Hitting with men on probably helped. The challenge for teams now is to adjust back. But pulling outside pitches into the air is extremely difficult. Either he learns to go with them the other way, or he hits grounders.
    Just an interesting sub-plot for 2007.

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 11:45 am
  • Of course, I meant 2008.
    And the stats support that interpretation:
    Men on:
    2006: 305 PA .291 .354 .444 .798
    2007: 339 PA .355 .407 .532 .939
    Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find those stats for only Fenway. But he did get more selective when he had the chance to. Pitchers need to not give in and stick to throwing strikes away and junk inside.

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 11:51 am
  • One more fact:
    Of his 30 XBHs at Fenway in 2007 (15 doubles and 14 HR), exactly 1 double went the other way.
    In 2006, it was 3 doubles of 33 XBH (24 doubles and 9 HR).
    So he really learned to turn on pitches for power to get them over the Monster while being more selective. Seems like a smart hitter to me.

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 12:10 pm
  • Guys –
    Everyone have a great Thanksgiving.

    Brad November 21, 2007, 12:23 pm
  • Thanks for those numbers, John. Sounds like the Yankees will probably wind up around $200 million come opening day, or a little higher if they go after Santana.
    Anyone got figures for the Sox?
    (As for the “dead weight” salary issue, I can understand Yankee fans’ desire to take that out of any comparison… However, the full amount is entirely relevant, as most other teams don’t have the luxury of shrugging off multimillion dollar mistakes. I’m sure others would like to take the Steinbrenners’ scattershot approach — spend wildly, and hope something sticks — but they don’t.)

    Hudson November 21, 2007, 1:03 pm
  • I think its a bit simplistic to say that the yankees take a scattershot approach to building their team. Sure the yankees can absorb mistakes better than most due to their financial situation but they put a ton of time into scouting and thinking about how they build their team. They dont just sign every player can and hope for the best. The same statement can be made about the Red Sox who also have a higher proportion of “dead weight” than most other teams. I believe John’s point was that once the “dead weight” players are off the payroll, there will be even more flexibility given many of them arent every day contributors.

    sam-YF November 21, 2007, 1:19 pm
  • It should be noted though that the Yanks get to apply their luxury tax to the new stadium. So the more they spend now, the more they get to invest. And after 2008, they’re subtracting at least $65M from five players (Giambi, Mussina, Pavano, Abreu, Farns). No doubt they’ll replace some of that, but what, I want the team to keep their profits? With 50 million in additional revenue from the new stadium, I don’t care if their yearly payroll is $250M.
    But Sox fans talking about salary differences is pretty lame. They just spent more than anyone in history on a championship. Go explain to an Indians or Rockies fan how that championship wasn’t bought, especially with 225 million dropped last off-season on new acquisitions.

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 1:30 pm
  • Apart from Clement, I can’t think of any high-profile dead weight that the Sox have carried of late. Who’m I missing?
    The word “scattershot” may be too harsh. But I think there’s an element of truth there.
    When the Yankees stumble, it’s not disputable that Steinbrenner has pulled out his wad of cash and thrown it at the problem. (Abreu in 2006 and Clemens in 2007 come to mind… What other team can do that mid-season? When the Sox ran into problems with Nomar in 2004, they solved it by finding bargains like Cabby and DAVE FRICKIN ROBERTS, not by buying an All-Star replacement).
    It’s just a fact that the revolving door of once-great or once-promising pitchers to be brought to the Yankees swings at an alarming RPM. Ironically, the only reason that Cashman’s sound management of the farm system has come to public attention at all is that high-priced Yankee talent has faltered, forcing New York to bring up prospects much earlier than intended.
    (By comparison, Theo has had problems settling on a shortstop, with Renteria as arguably his biggest blunder; and the Sox have had more middle relievers than I can remember during his tenure… Crisp looked like a brilliant move for about three weeks, but has been a huge disappointment since the early injury; it’s telling, however, that his replacement will come from the Sox system, and looks to be a huge star in 2008… I think the jury is still out on Drew and DiceK, and there are high hopes of them flourishing as expected in their second Fenway year.)

    Hudson November 21, 2007, 1:38 pm
  • But Sox fans talking about salary differences is pretty lame.
    John was the one who wrote the break-down of salaries for 2008, and I don’t see any Sox Fans talking trash. Don’t use that as an excuse to bash the Sox’ 2007 aquisitions.
    Also, Lowell only had 1 extra-base-hit to the opposite field last year, but what about singles? I saw PLENTY of balls punched through the right side this year by Lowell, and you completely ignore those numbers.

    Atheose November 21, 2007, 1:59 pm
  • The Sox absolutely could have acquired Abreu in 2006 and Clemens in 2007. There was nothing preventing it. Abreu especially would have been a better deal and with better numbers than Drew, and he would have kept them in the race in 2006. Instead, they dropped twice as much on an inferior product in Drew during the off-season.
    But who did Cashman trade of significance for all those pitchers? They weren’t great acquisitions but they didn’t give up much of anything. The problem is they didn’t draft well. That’s what’s changed.

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 2:00 pm
  • [Aquiring] Abreu would have kept [the Sox] in the race in 2006.
    If by “Abreu” you mean “two or three healthy starting pitchers”, than you’re right, Abreu would have kept the Red Sox in the race in 2006.
    If you think lack of offense was the Sox’ problem in 2006 then you weren’t paying attention.

    Atheose November 21, 2007, 2:04 pm
  • Hudson was trash-talking the dollars. Those arguments are irrelevant when it comes to YFvSF and it’s about time they’re retired.
    And I agree, Lowell hit singles to all fields. Like I said, he’s a smart hitter. But the big difference in his production was converting the doubles into homeruns – that’s his SLG difference and at the same time he was more selective. Obviously, if a team has to choose, you force him to go the other way for the one base rather than giving him something to pull for two or four bases. Then it becomes more a matter of chance on whether he hits it at a fielder, because it won’t be for power.

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 2:07 pm
  • Gentlemen,
    I only provided the salary breakdown of the current 40 man roster for reference. You guys were discussing where the Yankees would be in ’08, I had it, so I provided it. Not for any other reason.
    As for A-Rod, Jorge and Mo, the numbers could be slightly inflated, the break down for each season has not been provided yet. (That I can find) Otherwise all salaries should be accurate.

    John - YF November 21, 2007, 2:07 pm
  • Hudson was trash-talking the dollars
    Where? All I see is this:
    “Thanks for those numbers, John. Sounds like the Yankees will probably wind up around $200 million come opening day, or a little higher if they go after Santana.
    Anyone got figures for the Sox?”

    How is that trash-talking, Mike?

    Atheose November 21, 2007, 2:09 pm
  • It’s all relative. If you’re having trouble preventing runs you can help yourself by score more runs – that’s the Pythagorean formula. And better, having Abreu would have prevented the Yankees from scoring more runs. I’m not saying he alone would have gotten the Sox to the playoffs, but you can bet they would have been much closer than 10.5 games. Based on WARP he was worth 3 wins. Take 3 from the Yankees and add three to the Sox and that’s a 4.5 game deficit with meaningful ball in September.
    Schilling did call him a difference maker, and he was right. He hit .330 .419 .507 in 58 games for the Yankees.

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 2:13 pm
  • You can talk about pythagorean formulas and WARP all you want, but anyone who paid any attention to the 2006 season will tell you that the reason we did poorly was because we had David Pauley, Devern Hansack, Lenny DiNardo, Kyle Snyder, Jason Johnson, Julian Tavarez and Kevin Jarvis start a total of 55 games. That’s almost 1/3 of the season, and that’s not even counting the 12 games started by Matt Clement and his 6.61 ERA.
    Pitching was the problem, not hitting.

    Atheose November 21, 2007, 2:24 pm
  • “However, the full amount is entirely relevant, as most other teams don’t have the luxury of shrugging off multimillion dollar mistakes. I’m sure others would like to take the Steinbrenners’ scattershot approach — spend wildly, and hope something sticks — but they don’t.”
    Uh, but that’s EXACTLY what the Sox did last off-season and when they signed Clement/Rentaria. They would have signed Contreras too if they could. There’s no difference so why talk trash like that?

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 2:25 pm
  • Also, we were ranked 26th in baseball last year, just ahead of the Devil Rays, Nationals, Orioles and Royals. Our offense ranked 9th in runs scored.

    Atheose November 21, 2007, 2:28 pm
  • Not to be a troll, but I do expect a regression to the mean. But then again, I said that about Paps, Okajima, etc.
    But then again, one doesn’t have to look far to see former “can’t miss” relievers now not doing so hot.. Gagne, Lidge, Guardado, Foulke..
    You get my point.

    Lar November 21, 2007, 3:31 pm
  • Calling acquiring Abreu throwing money at a problem is totally wrong. The yankees had a need for a solid hitting OF due to two major injuries to Matsui and Sheffield. They looked around and traded for the best possible fit they could find. It wasnt lets take a flyer on this Abreu fella and see if it works, it was a calculated baseball decision. The red sox did the exact same thing with Gagne this year, flexed their financial muscle to have him waive his no trade clause. Glass houses and stones if you ask me.

    sam-YF November 21, 2007, 3:33 pm
  • Manny Ramirez $20,000,000
    JD Drew $14,000,000
    David Ortiz $12,500,000
    Mike Lowell $12,000,000
    Julio Lugo $9,000,000
    Jason Varitek $9,000,000
    Daisuke Matsuzaka $8,000,000
    Josh Beckett $9,500,000
    Curt Schilling $8,000,000
    Tim Wakefield $4,000,000
    Coco Crisp $4,750,000
    Julian Tavarez $3,850,000
    Alex Cora $2,000,000
    Hideki Okajima $1,250,000
    Craig Hansen $700,000
    Jonathan Papelbon $425,000
    Kevin Youkilis $425,000
    Clay Buchholz $390,000
    Manny Delcarmen $390,000
    Jacoby Ellsbury $390,000
    Dustin Pedroia $390,000
    Bryan Corey $450,000
    Brendan Donnelly $390,000
    Devern Hansack $390,000
    Kyle Jackson $390,000
    Jon Lester $384,000
    Javier Lopez $425,000
    Jay Marshall $380,000
    Edgar Martinez $390,000
    David Pauley $390,000
    Kyle Snyder $535,000
    Dusty Brown $390,000
    George Kottaras $390,000
    Chris Carter $390,000
    Argenis Diaz $390,000
    Brandon Moss $390,000
    Craig Breslow $400,000
    Nov-07 $127,434,000
    Opening Day ’07 $143,026,214

    John - YF November 21, 2007, 3:33 pm
  • As a Yankees Fan, I want Salary Cap in Baseball Once a for All just to shutup Yankees haters and Media. Every Media and The Yankees haters criticizing yankees for buying pennants and championships thru free agency. Yankees needs to prove doubters and Yankees haters wrong that They can win thru building thru farm system and salary cap in place.. Is it me that Media loves the Redsox more than Yankees because of “Underdog” role and lovable losers mentality until they won a championship in 2004? And Fact The Yankees are Evil and Redsox are good since Mr Larry Lucchinno aka Lucifer shouted “The Yankees are Evil Empire” around the World…. The Yankees haters can’t stand NY and what Ny represent for because They’re Jealous . City like Ny has everything to offer unlike other cities in Usa. How would Larry aka Lucifer feel a team like Jets and Knicks haven’t won championship for fourty years while Celtics won 16 championships and Patriots won 3 ? Every Boston sports Fan still moaning and crying because They haven’t won championship for years.
    Please Mr.Selig, I want a Salary Cap in Baseball once a for all . I had enough of media critizing Yankees more than Redsox… “Everyone loves Redsox because they do it in right way. Like spending on Matsuzaka, Jd.Drew, Lugo. Eric Gagne… I bet Manny and Ortiz came thru Redsox farm system. Jason Varitek doesn’t deserved The Captain since He never came up thru Boston Organization. He was traded from Mariners Organization along with Derek Lowe on Heathcliffe Slocumb trade.
    Redsox payroll is 6x more than Devil Rays Payroll.. Redsox payroll is $165 million and Drays is $25 million

    Dj_Yf@ November 21, 2007, 4:14 pm
  • http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/b…icleid=1043916
    Of course, there is still a long way to go between here and there, but let’s all step back for a moment and acknowledge the obvious facts. From the moment John Henry, Tom Werner, Larry Lucchino and Theo Epstein took over the Red Sox five years ago, the Sox have not merely become bigger; they’ve thought bigger. Using the luxury tax formula, the Red Sox finished 2007 with a payroll in the range of $165 million, the highest in club history and roughly $30 million higher than they spent in 2006.
    Yankees Payroll next year for 2008
    Contracts: A-Rod -27.5 Mil (up from 16 mil)
    Giambi – 21 mil
    Jeter – 20 mil
    Abreu – 16 mil
    Jorge – 13.1 mil
    Damon – 13 mil
    Matsui – 13 mil
    Moose – 11 mil
    Pavano – 11 mil
    Farnsworth – 5.5 mil
    Igawa – 4 mil
    That’s 155 million for 11 players on the 40 man roster, not counting pro-rated signing bonues, manager, GM, money owed for traded contracts etc.. and the rest of the players on the roster, not to mention Petitte who will no doubt get a 3 year 18 mil deal or something. It’s easily going to be 225 mil or better.
    Pavano, Igawa, Moose, Giambi, and Farnsworth are all basically worthless anyway…

    Dj_Yf@ November 21, 2007, 4:15 pm
  • what about Clement and renteria? dont they count against the payroll or are the sox done with them?

    sam-YF November 21, 2007, 4:16 pm
  • Let’s take another look at things:
    Yankees 2008 Probable Payroll:
    C – Posada: $13 million
    C – Molina: $2 million*
    1B – Giambi: $21 million
    1B – Phillips: $ .5 million
    2B – Cano: $3-4 million (arb)
    SS – Jeter: $20 million
    3B – Rodriguez: $27.5 million
    OF – Matsui: $13 million
    OF – Damon: $13 million
    OF – Abreu: $16 million
    OF – Cabrera: $ .5 million
    UTIL – Duncan: $ .5 million
    3B – Betemit: $2-3 million (arb)
    SP – Pettite: $16 million*
    SP – Mussina: $11 million
    DL – Pavano: $10 million
    SP – Wang: $5-6 million (arb)
    SP – Igawa: $4 million
    SP – Hughes: $ .5 million
    SP – Kennedy: $ .5 million
    SP – Chamberlain: $ .5 million
    RP – Rivera: $15 million*
    RP – Farnsworth: $5.5 million
    RP – Bruney: $ .5 million
    RP – Britton: $ .5 million
    2008 Payroll High Arbitration Range: $204 million
    Without Andy, Mo or Molina = $170 million
    We still need another player for the bench and 2 relievers.
    If Mo, Andy and Molina all return and arbitration figures are as high as I expect, payroll might go over the $208 million we had in 2006.
    After 2008, we shed nearly $70 million in payroll and are unlkely to take on more than $30-40 million to replace the lost production.
    Payroll will come down but it will be gradual.
    Here is quite a lot of money coming off the books next year..
    Giambi: $21M
    Abreu: $16M
    Mussina: $11M
    Pavano: $11M
    Farnsworth: $5.5M
    Thats $64.5M. Lets assume Pettitte comes back, add $16 more that will come off. Thats $80.5M dollars that will come off the books.
    Now there is a RF and 2 SP spots that need to get filled. Both could easily be filled with young guys. As far as the guys who are under contract, most of them have base salaries that wont be going up. Po and Mo will get raises, about $10 million dollars more combined for both of them. Wang and Cano will get substantial raises through arbitration or extensions so lets just say after next year, they’ll have roughly $50-60 million off the payroll. I’d say a good amount of that will be spent in the great FA class next year anyway.
    I am embarrassed a little that our payroll is so much higher than everybody else but the yankees have the most money so they spend the most money, its as simple as that. At least we know the steinbrenners arent putting money in their pockets out of greed like some franchises.
    Redsox whiney Fans will complain about the Yankees payroll when Their team is second in terms of payroll. They just won world series this year..
    Fact the yankee payrol lhad balloned to keep the nucleus together these players could have had and were offered higher deals else where.
    Another fact,
    OTHER teams had set the trend for balloned salaries with stupid deals (bartolo’s angel deal, Zito) don’t blame the yankees because the market rose due to other owners stupidity
    First Option is put a Salary Cap in Baseball
    Another option would be letting the market sort matters out. Let’s try not to lose sight of the fact that Bolshevik Bud’s Billionaire Boondoggle has only been in effect since 1997. I’m not sure how baseball survived up until that point, but Wikipedia confirms that it certainly did.
    But I’m not entirely opposed to a salary cap. It just has to be set at the appropriate level so as to not unfairly hobble the better-managed and more-profitable franchises. Say, $20 million/team? Picture it – $1 ticket nights, cheap beer at the stadium, polygamists could finally afford to take the entire clan out to watch a ballgame. What could be better for baseball?
    Competitive balance IS good for baseball.
    There was competitive balance before 1997, just like there is competitive balance after 1997. Just look at the facts:
    World Series Champions, 1987 – 1997
    1987 – Minnesota
    1988 – Los Angeles
    1989 – Oakland
    1990 – Cincinnati
    1991 – Minnesota
    1992 – Toronto
    1993 – Toronto
    1995 – Atlanta
    1996 – New York Yankees
    1997 – Florida
    Is that not competitive enough? Oakland, Florida, Minnesota, Cincinnati? These are the current welfare queens of baseball, raking in tens of millions in free cash every single season, which makes losing in 2007 as profitable as winning a World Series a decade earlier. If you’re an owner simply looking to line your pockets that’s the ultimate win-win situation.

    Dj_Yf@ November 21, 2007, 4:20 pm
  • Sam from what I can see Renteria is off the books as of 2008 season. He was on the books for $3,000,000 last season.
    As for Clement, he is a FA.
    The biggest thing I can see from just looking at all that salary data is that the Yankees have definitely overpaid for certain players. Giambi, Abreu, Damon, Matsui, Mussina and Pavano. The fact that everyone in that group makes more then Papi (except Pavano and Mussina) shows that the Yankees truly have overpaid to fill needs. Giambi is the most bloated salary off them all. He gives you 1/2 the production of Papi, for double the price, that’s tough to get around.

    John - YF November 21, 2007, 4:43 pm
  • Atheose – wouldn’t you have preferred a 5 game deficit to an 11 game deficit? Meanwhile, during the five game sweep he went: .500 .630 .700 in 27 AB. Think you would have gotten swept with those numbers on your side and not for Yankee tally? And each game in that series was worth two in the standings. Sox take two there and it’s a race with the Sox 2.5 back instead of 6.5 back. They take the three winnable games and they’re .5 game back.
    Like I said, “I’m not saying he alone would have gotten the Sox to the playoffs, but you can bet they would have been much closer than [11] games.”
    John –
    Papi is paid less than Drew. They got a great deal there. Beckett too. The Yankees could have locked up Jorge and Mo before the season. But they would rather overpay and know what they’re getting. That’s the philosophy going forward. All of those bad contracts off the books next year. And when you see what Tori Hunter will get (career 104 OPS+), you’ll see Damon really isn’t overpaid (career 102 ERA+) and Damon is rated ahead of Hunter defensively – by Dave Pinto’s PMR method and BP’s RATE stat.
    Speaking of Pinto, Varitek is almost as bad as Victor Martinez while Jorge is among the best in the game.

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 4:57 pm
  • I also dunno that Id call Abreu vastly over paid. $16 mil aint cheap but I think he’d get close to that in the open market for sure.

    sam-YF November 21, 2007, 5:07 pm
  • The Yanks overpaid for flexibility. It’s hard to argue with that logic when they can afford it.

    Lar November 21, 2007, 5:12 pm
  • Actually, let’s look at things based on recent market deals:
    Abreu (16 million) isn’t overpaid relative to Drew (14 million) and still produces better. Abreu’s contract is up after this year while Drew is signed through 2011.
    Damon, like I said, isn’t overpaid either. He’s still a very capable CF. Hunter’s contract will prove that point. And while Hunter will sign for three or four years, Damon has two years left.
    Matsui, too, is paid right at the market value. He had a much better year than Drew, for instance, and earned less. Both are where they should be given their careers (Drew = 128 OPS+; Matsui = 125 OPS+)
    Mussina was supposed to be a league average pitcher. Based on that, he’s worth it. No one was saying he was overpaid either when he signed the extension after 2006.
    So that leaves, Giambi and Pavano. The Sox had their own Pavano in Clement. It happens. And I have a strong feeling that Giambi will have a very good contract year. But either way, he signed when Manny signed. That’s what the market was giving back then.
    The real difference in salaries is how the Yanks are tied to their players from the last dynasty. Jeter (20M), Jorge (13M), and Mo (15M) are getting legacy salaries and there’s no equivalent on the Sox. Even then, they’ve locked up Papi and Beckett for below market value. Call that smart, but it’s just not the Yankee philosophy. They feel they’ll pay whatever it takes, but only when they have to.
    The real story is that the Yankees have that 65 million coming off the books in one year. And they have youngsters in-line to fill all the gaps. They’ll sign one or two free agents, but for the first time in a long time, they won’t have to. I know I’d rather they spent the money than lined their pockets.

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 5:16 pm
  • Put it another way, they could sign Santana next year for 20 million/year and Teixeira at 15 million/year and still be cutting 30 million from their payroll to come in at 170 Million.

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 5:24 pm
  • I am not concerned with how much the Yankees payroll is, that’s not my point. My point is that Theo and the Sox brass have done a wonderful job of not overpaying for their players. (With the exception of Drew) As a Yankee fan I didn’t really comprehend the difference until I looked at the list of the current 40 man roster and their salaries. Giambi is grossly overpaid. The Abreu option was a no brainer, this year’s FA’s would have cost the Yankees as much if not more for a longer period of time, so taking the option wasn’t a bad call at all. But with that said Bobby Abreu is NOT a $16M player and Johnny Damon is NOT a $14M player. You can provide all the stats you would like, Johnny Damon at his age is not worth that money.

    John - YF November 21, 2007, 6:55 pm
  • Actually, in this market, Damon would get more than $10 million. It’s not as horrible a contract as many would like you to believe.
    Yankees overpay for their players because it doesn’t hurt them one bit. They are set to become richer than ever in 2009, when they don’t pay luxury tax for 3 years, and they’ll get a higher ticket revenue from all the luxury boxes (but don’t cry foul, Fenway will still have the highest average ticket prices).
    The difference between the two teams is that Theo spent larger, better (along with a large bit of fortune by hitting the baseball jackpot with Ortiz) than Steinbrenner/Cashman. The Red Sox are by no means a small-market team, nor do they really act like one. The differences in payroll don’t mean much at all. I thought we went over this last offseason when they did something no small-market team would or could ever, ever do, and signed JD Drew, Julio Lugo, and Matsuzaka to long-term contracts.
    Can we please stop the payroll nonsense? It makes no one look good.

    AndrewYF November 21, 2007, 7:12 pm
  • You’re not seeing my point: Relative to market values, neither Damon nor Abreu are overpaid. Don’t believe me? Watch what Torii Hunter gets this year (as a comp to Damon), or Carlos Lee or JD Drew last year (as comps to Abreu). Damon is the same hitter career-wise as Hunter and a better defender right now. To say Damon isn’t worth the money is to say Hunter won’t be worth the money. But another team will give it to him. Same deal with the corner OF’s. Abreu’s bat is equivalent to Drew (70 million/5 years) and Lee (100 million/6 years) but he too is a better defender than both. To say either Damon or Abreu are overpaid, you’re talking maybe a 1-2 million difference in salary a year. And they’ve paid that to remain flexible – Abreu is one in one year, Damon (and Matsui) in two.
    Giambi you’ll get no argument from me. But when he was signed, that same salary was given to Manny based on similar numbers. You can’t fault the Yankee FO because he destroyed his body with PEDs.
    Now whether the market values are inflated is an interesting question, but that’s a separate discussion. The Yankees just have the ability to sign more guys, in number, at market value. They’ve got 11 guys at market value (from the top to Farnsworth). By contrast, the Sox have 7 guys at market value with another three well below their values (Beckett, Papi, Wakefield).
    The Sox are smart to lock up guys long-term early on at below market rates. That’s just not the Yankee philosophy. They’re willing to push the market value a bit (Jorge, Mo) if it means flexibility.
    And according to this article, A-Rod is worth 45 million/year:
    A-Rod deal is still a revenue winner for Yanks

    Mike YF November 21, 2007, 7:26 pm
  • I find it hilarious that the mere mention of payrolls is deemed “trash talk” by thin-skinned YFs.
    And I’m glad Yankee fans are crowing about $65 million coming off the books next year. It just puts the gap into perspective: that would bring your payroll to almost exactly even with the Boston payroll.
    Until then, only the mathematically illiterate can say that the difference is irrelevant. Spending 35-50% more than your nearest competitor is a significant competitive advantage in any sport, and that’s what the Yankees have been doing in this century.
    All other teams can complain about the Sox payroll except the Yankees, imho. If a Cleveland fan wants to complain about the disparity, they have every right.
    And as far as the Sox spending “more to win a world series” than anyone in history, now *that’s* trash talk. The only reason any YF can venture such a statement is because your much higher-salaried team hasn’t managed to win since 2000…

    Hudson November 22, 2007, 10:03 am
  • // Damon is the same hitter career-wise as Hunter and a better defender right now. //
    Hunter must have a very weak arm.

    Hudson November 22, 2007, 10:04 am
  • According to Pinto, Damon has marginally better range than Hunter. I believe this is what the previous post was referring to.
    Hudson- So when someone says something about the Sox payroll it becomes “trash talk” but any objection to comments made about the Yankees payroll means we are “thin skinned” That is a very convenient construction on behalf of the SFs. To me objecting to a comment about spending the most money to win the world series is “thin skinned”
    Also, Yankee fans dont complain about the sox payroll they simply point out that its not too different from our own. You may have had a slightly smaller payroll last season but lets not forget the $51 mil they threw down for Matsuzaka. Add that in to last year’s payroll and suddenly the Sox spent more than the yankees last season on their team.

    sam-YF November 22, 2007, 10:38 am

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