Being Brian Cashman

When the 2007 season ends Brian Cashman will have some major decisions to make.  Yes I know it’s only August, but it’s never too early to start to think about what direction they will go in 2008.  The Yankees have decisions to make on the contracts of four big name Yankees, Mariano Rivera, Jorge Posada, Alex Rodriguez and Bobby Abreu.  Jose Molina and Luis Vizcaino are also free agents after this season, but for now there are bigger fish to fry.  For Rivera and Posada the Yankees are all they have ever known, will they test the waters or will their allegiance to the Yankee family keep them in pinstripes until they call it quits?  Will the Yankees pick up Abreu’s $16 million option for ’08?  Will Alex opt out?   

Here’s my plan of attack:

  • Pick up Abreu’s ’08 option.  Abreu has put together a very solid second half and at 33 he isn’t exactly over the hill.  His option for ’08 is $16 million, that’s just 2 million more then what J.D. Drew went for last off-season.  Torii Hunter and Andruw Jones head the list of possible replacements if the Yankees decide to go elsewhere, but at $16 million Abreu might be a (gulp) steal. 

  • Sign both Mariano and Jorge to 3 year deals.  Going into the season the biggest concern with both players was health.  While some speculate at times that Mariano may not be healthy there is nothing that says otherwise.  As for Jorge, his 2007 numbers speak volumes.  Time will tell what their roles will be in years 2 and 3 of their contracts, but something tells me neither player will be dead weight.  If the Yankees decide to explore other options Francisco Cordero and Todd Jones lead the list of available closers. (The Twins have an option on Joe Nathan for ’08, otherwise he would obviously head the list)  Michael Barrett and Paul LoDuca head the list of free agent catchers.  (The Tigers have an option on Pudge for ’08)

  • Prepare for the Wilson Betemit era at third base.  Alex is going to opt out, that’s a given.  He is also going to opt for a new city.  Alex has never felt at home in New York and even with the new found love from the fans, he will be bashing home-runs for another team in ’08.  So much for Triskaidekaphobia! 

Time to chime in.  Hey it’s Friday, it’s a beautiful day, let’s hear what you guys think.  Comment away!       

116 comments… add one
  • I agree although it saddens me the way we’ve mistreated A-Rod over the years. We’ll definitely miss him. Signing Mo for three years scares me a bit. I would feel better if we had a young pitcher in the minors that could take his place if his production diminishes considerably. Resign both Molina and Viz.

    snowballa August 24, 2007, 11:18 am
  • they should make every effort to sign rodriguez. give him his $30M a year. do it. as the veterans hang ’em up and the youth movement slides into place, more money will be freed up.
    at the risk of setting a new standard for overwhelmingly massive understatements, the lineup looks less daunting when you subtract him.

    Anonymous August 24, 2007, 11:18 am
  • 1. I’m ambivalent on Hunter or Jones vs. Abreu. I don’t dislike Abreu. He is a consistently excellent second-half hitter, but he is he almost the definition of lackadaisacal in the outfield (not as bad as Manny, but then again, who is) and streaky. I could live with an extension for him, but would not be hugely disappointed to see him go either.
    2. On Mo and Posada, I agree, though I expect a big drop-off for Posada over the course of any 3-year extension.
    3. Not as sure about A-Rod as you seem to be. He is uber-conscious about history and being immortalized. There simply is no beter place to achieve both than with the Yankees. Of course, I think his wife despises NY (her fashion statement earlier in the year attests to that) and how could she not, given the lovely press treatment of her husband? Such at-home considerations are, I imagine, enormous, so maybe you are right, but I just don’t see the opt-out as a foregone conclusion.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 11:24 am
  • I don’t think A-Rod is going anywhere either, despite all the cat and mouse moves by Boras and Cash. Maybe it’s my “Yankee ego” talking, but he’s only going to burnish his accomplishments by achieving them in New York. They’ll get a deal done.

    nettles-yf August 24, 2007, 11:30 am
  • “I just don’t see the opt-out as a foregone conclusion.”
    there was a quote attributed to scott boras a while back (maybe when rodriguez hit #35 and people were talking about his consistent production, etc.?)…
    i think someone said that now boras would have something else to add to his “book”, alluding to the binders of flattering statistical data boras brings to negotiations with teams trying to sign his free agents.
    boras’ reply was, “if we need to put a book together.” (that is nearly verbatim.)
    i was surprised at his answer, implying that opting out might not happen.
    …or i just read a whole bunch into that.

    Yankee Fan In Boston August 24, 2007, 11:31 am
  • “Alex is going to opt out, that’s a given.”
    I should have been more clear here. I am certain Alex will opt out of his current contract, that is what I would bet the farm on. It’s just a sound business move. As for opting for a new city that’s personal and mainly just a gut feeling on my part.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 11:37 am
  • John, does that mean that you don’t beleive Cash when he says opt-out = no NYY participation in bidding?

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 11:39 am
  • This might just be unimaginative of me, but I expect the Yankees to re-sign each of those players you named. If anyone goes, I’d think it would be Abreu first, not Rodriguez. Yeah some of them are old, but they’re surer than most or all of who will be available. To wit:
    “…Francisco Cordero and Todd Jones lead the list of available closers.”
    Um, yeah, I’d rather have a one-armed Rivera.

    FenSheaParkway August 24, 2007, 11:40 am
  • Also, A-Rod has to know that he is almost assured of having great hitters surrounding him in the NYY line-up for the rest of his career, which will boost all his offensive numbers and history-chasing. Unless he is really confident that he will get that somewhere else, I think he will be wary to leave.
    I do think his decision to switch from SS to 3B (one HR shy of most HR by a SS ever and having to learn an entirely new position) at a time that had little to do with money (he already had the fat contract) is an indicator that he really wanted some things as much or more than purely the money – i.e. to play consistently in October and/or play for a great team in a big media market.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 11:43 am
  • Iron Horse I don’t know who to beleive. I think his stance may change if this team doesn’t make the playoffs, problem is I don’t think Alex will care. It’s pure speculation but I think he’s gone. The only way he stays is if the Yankees come in with an over the top bid, say $35 million per.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 11:49 am
  • He will opt out simply because it will mean another huge payday for Boras and him self. I’m with Trisk here, he’s opting out, no way around that.

    LocklandSF August 24, 2007, 11:51 am
  • He’s going to look good in a Red Sox uniform. :-)

    LocklandSF August 24, 2007, 11:52 am
  • i don’t think he’ll be playing in boston next year. perhaps that is wishful thinking, but the media isn’t any less rabid, nor are the fans.

    Yankee Fan In Boston August 24, 2007, 11:58 am
  • Wishful thinking, I’m sure. I would like to see them sign Lowell for two more years. But I, and I think a lot of Red Sox fans, would put aside our seething hatred for the man and welcome Arod with open arms.

    LocklandSF August 24, 2007, 12:07 pm
  • Is Boston not a “big market”, where everything he does in front of Manny or Ortiz will be paid attention to nationally?
    This “New York is the best place for him to play because it’s New York” thing is slightly overblown. Check that, it’s way overblown. He’ll be just a big of a star player with Boston, LAA, The Dodgers, or San Fran. Regardless of whom he plays for, one thing is sure, it won’t be under the current contract he’s under. If New York wants him, they’re going to have to prove it to him by paying for him.
    I don’t think A-Rod is just going to forget how he was treated in NY for the first two years by the media, the fans, and the like. If they want him back, they’re going to pay him. Not to say that they wont, but I am saying they will have to.
    Also, IronHorse:
    Any combo of
    Ortiz – Manny – ARod or
    Orlando Cabrerra – Vlad – ARodod or
    Delgado – Wright – ARod
    Barry – ARod
    is just as good if not better than what he’s getting now from a protection standpoint.

    Brad August 24, 2007, 12:09 pm
  • Fellow yf’s prepare to pounce on me for this…
    I do want A-Rod around as I think a. he works very hard and is likely among the best 5 players ever and b. I think it would be incredibly exciting to watch him go for all kinds of crazy records as a Yankee and in the new stadium (we need some history to be made there too!).
    Having said that, I can’t explain why, but I don’t think I’ll feel huge loss or panic if he leaves. Yes we will need a big right-handed bat and we will never replace his multiple skills in any one other player. But the 30-35 million/year that would otherwise have gone to paying him will go to possibly 3 other excellent players (or maybe, one ace – Santana!?!?!!? – and one other great player) and, franly, the most exciting thing to me about the Yankees right now is the broader trend of where they seem to be heading with Cashman pursuing investment in the farm, a crop of young arms, etc.
    I am more concerned that if the Yankees don’t make the playoffs this year, Steinbrenner – or the mini-Steinbrenners – will take back the reins from Cashman and abandon the proper building mode. That would ensure in my mind several years of disappointing performance much more so than the departure of A-Rod.
    OK – kill me.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 12:11 pm
  • Yeah, but Lockland, can you imagine ARod and Varitek sharing the locker room?

    yankeemonkey August 24, 2007, 12:11 pm
  • Yankees right now is the broader trend of where they seem to be heading with Cashman pursuing investment in the farm, a crop of young arms, etc.
    Clemens?

    Brad August 24, 2007, 12:15 pm
  • IronHorse:
    You can’t build a perennial winning team based solely on the farm system. Having a core of young homegrown talent is great, but you have to supplant it with at least some veteran presence. The key is to have a balance between the two. Add to it the fact that Yankee farm system is not exactly overflowing with talented position prospects….So, I don’t see a problem with having a whole bunch of cheap farm-raised kids + an ARod or two. Santana isn’t a free agent until ’08, right? Giambi, Moose, Pettitte all come off the books then, they should have plenty of cash for him.

    yankeemonkey August 24, 2007, 12:16 pm
  • Brad: Fair point on the protection plans that Boston or LA would provide, but two things:
    1. I think you are way off on the Mets. Wright/Delgado (who appears well on the decline incidentally) is nowhere near the others. And I don’t think he could handle staying in NY if he left the Yankees – he gets to deal with the same press with have the city now really hating him…no.
    2. I didn’t even consider Boston because I just don’t think there is any way he goes there now. It’s not just about the media and fans. The players there have been a*&holes about and toward him – literally. and I don’t think the “stick it to NY by going to Boston” thing is in him – he is too thin-skinned to invite even more hatred on his own shoulders by stayign in that rivalry.
    I think the only really legitimate contenders for his services are the Angels – a stadium in which he hits HR’s like crazy, a perennial contender, the protection he’d have as you rightly point out, etc.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 12:20 pm
  • YM, I think they could get past their issues, even if they didn’t, I don’t care. Clubhouse chemistry is a vastly over-rated factor in baseball.
    In other news, all you Yankee Fans should just give up now, it’s over….
    WE SIGNED Royce Clayton!!!

    LocklandSF August 24, 2007, 12:21 pm
  • YM:
    Agreed, my point was in part that I think you can get 2-3 great players off trades, etc. with the amount of money you spend on one A-Rod, that’s all. That, plus the farm investment could yield as good or better a team without him, depending on who those 2-3 players are of course.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 12:21 pm
  • Can somebody, anybody, please explain to me how Royce Clayton managed to stay on any MLB roster for 17 seasons!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

    LocklandSF August 24, 2007, 12:25 pm
  • Bad example Brad:
    By raising Clemens are you seriously trying to make the point that the Yankees are pursuing the same strategy under Cashman’s consolidated authority this past year as they were from 2000-2006? If so, you are simply wrong.
    There will always be a big acquisition or two. The difference is whether you trade one or even multiple strong prospects and young players for short-term rentals. (Even Clemens is not an example of them having done that by the way)
    In fact, the best example I can think of for that these days is…..Eric Gagne for Gabbard/Murphy/Beltre. Welcome to NY circa 2000.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 12:27 pm
  • Agreed.
    I don’t really know for sure if the whole “fans hate him in Boston” thing is overblown. Most of the A-Rod detractors, namely Nixon, are not part of that squad. On top of that, every single Sox fan I know would love to have him.
    I don’t think they’re going to get Lowell on the cheap and short, and I don’t think they’re getting doing the Schilling either.
    Also, I firmly believe that this is Manny’s last year in Boston, so if added up, that’s way more money shaved than A-Rod is going to ask for or get. I think it could happen, and even if it doesn’t, Boston is definitely going to be in the mix to drive up the price through the roof on whomever.
    I agree that LAA is the scariest place for him to be when you put all that speed and baserunning talent in front of him, with Vlad behind him, with their pitching, it’s scary.
    I can’t speak to the whole “thin skinned” or “stick it to NY” thing however, since I’m not sure how he thinks about that. I do however feel that he hates being overshadowed by the inferior mate to his left on a daily basis. He knows that he’s the best player on earth, and I think he wants it to be known by the city and fanbase, and I don’t think that happens in NY. Again, I don’t know him, so maybe I’m just being hopefull in the situation. I’d give anything to have him hitting in Boston’s lineup, and apart from Beckett, he’s easily my favorite ML player.
    Also, I agree on the NY (mets) thing. I didn’t really think of it that way, but I’m sure they’ll make a big push as well.

    Brad August 24, 2007, 12:29 pm
  • It’s all about the benjamins and A-Rod is going nowhere. The Yanks will pay him more than anyone else without the money that Texas if pitching in, they can certainly afford to pay more including Texas’ money. He isn’t going anywhere.

    RussellNY August 24, 2007, 12:29 pm
  • Lockland, I agree, I also think the “clubhouse chemistry” is BS. However, considering how sensitive Alex is, and how much he wants to be liked by everyone, I could see the tension getting to him. This is not Reggie Jackson circa ’77 we’re talking about.

    yankeemonkey August 24, 2007, 12:29 pm
  • Bad example Iron,
    Gagne cost the Sox very litte in terms of players. Well, I can’t say so on Beltre just yet, but the others were more than expendable.
    And, I was just busting stones. Cashman has done a very good job of not caving under the immense pressure to work on that rotation.

    Brad August 24, 2007, 12:31 pm
  • Re: royce clayton
    its beyond me how guys like this can keep in the bigs. I cant believe the sox dont have someone better in their farm system than him. “Veteran presence” in his case is a detriment to the team id think.
    Re: Arod
    I havent read the whole thread but I cant see him in another uniform next year for many reasons.
    1. the yanks will throw the checkbook at him for an extension since they will be able to deduct texas’ money from what ever they give him for the next 3 years.
    2. No matter what he says or how we treat him the NYC market is the best place for him to be playing. Boras knows this, alex knows this.
    3. I dont think any other team is gonna be willing to give as much as Boras thinks he should get. The sox and the halos arent gonna lock up that much on one guy, i dont see it.
    4. The yanks will spend the money bc they will get it back and then some with his record chases in the second half of his career. They need him for the new stadium.
    The decision is all about money, he could care less what the yankee fans said and did last year. Thus, he signs with the yanks.

    Sam-YF August 24, 2007, 12:32 pm
  • Also, if A-Rod wants to win a World Series to plug him in as a winner, why would he go to Boston? That’s like going to South Korea to be safe.

    RussellNY August 24, 2007, 12:32 pm
  • Brad:
    Fair enough…but I thought you guys had relatively high hopes for Gabbard’s future?

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 12:35 pm
  • Now, now, Russell…

    yankeemonkey August 24, 2007, 12:36 pm
  • Russell, that was funny.
    On chemistry/thin-skin:
    1) Correct that chemistry is overblown. But I think it plays a slightly bigger place when a guy is considering where he wants to go than it does when he is already on a team and the chemistry isn’t that good. I think multiple players and coaches reaching out to a guy to say they really want him can help management to land him (Pettitte loved this and despite the view that I think a lot of SF’s have that Pettitte was just all about the money all along, I think it played a big role in his return). This isn’t chemistry, but about being wanted, and becomes more important the more a guy needs that…and this brings up the second point…
    2)A-Rod is absolutely thin-skinned and extraordinarily needy for an all-time great. He is not Barry, who thrives on being one against the world. He is not Sheffield, who has thicker skin than my daughter’s pet turtle. He may develop more toughness, and I think already has had to thanks to NY media and fans, but of all the great players, I have been surprised at how sensitive he is and I think pressure can and does get to him at times in ways that other greats either were/are immune to or learn to turn around. SF’s hate Jeter, but he loves to (and generally does) rise to the occasion, in much the same way admittedly that Ortiz does or, in other sports, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, etc. have. A-Rod has been much more clutch this season, but I feel like he still is learning/building up to being ice-water in the veins when the pressure is on.
    I can’t speak for the guy’s mind, but having watched him intensely the past few years, I think softer considerations than money probably play a bigger role for him than they might for a lot of other greats.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 12:49 pm
  • LocklandSF August 24, 2007, 12:54 pm
  • I don’t know many Red Sox fans that hate Jeter, he’s kind of hard to hate. Other than being a total pretty boy. I would love Jeter on the Red Sox, especially considering our SS issues, I would look past his limited range. ;-)

    LocklandSF August 24, 2007, 12:57 pm
  • “Also, if A-Rod wants to win a World Series to plug him in as a winner, why would he go to Boston? That’s like going to South Korea to be safe.”
    Har-har. Seriously, if Rodriguez wants to win a World Series, he should just sign with whatever team has David Eckstein next year. But he’ll have to stay at 3B though.

    FenSheaParkway August 24, 2007, 1:02 pm
  • FSP: What’s the Eckstein thing about?

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 1:04 pm
  • It’s sort of a crack at the general Eckstein-fixation that comes up every once in a while in the popular press. I like Eckstein, but I’m amused by the adulation he gets.
    And the dude has two rings!

    FenSheaParkway August 24, 2007, 1:06 pm
  • Let’s see if I can get through another day without getting banned (not that’s a problem one way or another)
    RE: Abreu’s option
    Picking it up is the right call because it’s “relatively” cheap in terms of years. That’s Cashman’s strategy going forward – overpay but for shorter lengths. Abreu fits well (except being left-handed). Then in 2009, they won’t have Giambi on payroll, can make a run at Manny or Vlad, with Tabata and Jackson on their way. Better all that than signing a Hunter or Jones to very expensive and multiyear deal.
    RE: A-Rod
    John clarified himself in his comment, but really I think it comes down to a personal decision on his part. Yanks have some time to offer an extension. The money will be right (30-32 million/year beginning after the current contract) for him to stay. It will be up to him if he decides to. The decision won’t be getting more money elsewhere. It will simply be if he’s had enough of New York.
    I think paying A-Rod big money in an extension makes sense, especially because they’ve saved over $70 million during his time in pinstripes (the Ranger money bringing down his “market” value).
    But if A-Rod flees (and I don’t think he will – he’s made it in NYC and that ain’t a bad place to be), then I go for signing Lowell or Koskie to a short deal. Betemit is too good for the bench and flexibility.
    RE: Mo and Jorge
    It’s a no-brainer. Sign them to 3 year/36 million deals. Worry about the future when we get there.
    RE: 1B
    Not mentioned, but it’s about time they either brought in an almost prospect (Carter would have been fine, trade pitching for a Votto) or sign someone like Hatteberg. Even still, this Cairo to Phillips to Minky nonsense is enough. It’s been three years now.
    P.s. Gabbard is RIGHT NOW (using Brad’s logic) a better major league pitcher than Lester or Tavarez. And Beltre is looking very good. Hard to say they’ve given up nothing. Meanwhile, my criticism of the Gagme deal is they didn’t need him. And I think I’ve been proven right (unless the playoffs prove otherwise).

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 1:07 pm
  • So, you would have passed on that trade, knowing that you could get by without Gabbard to add another arm to the bullpen, capable of dominating, because you were worried about who started that fifth day, when in reality, there are three viable options?
    I can’t agree, Woosta.
    I think that if GagNe continues his more recent outings, and is a reliable arm in front of Papelbon down the stretch, this deal was completely one thousand percent worth it. With a team like this current Red Sox sqad, which is in reality, headed into the last month in a very good position to have home field advantage in the playoffs, you can’t base your decisions on a guy like Beltre.
    Also, it’s worth noting that WMP brought back a great AAA first baseman, so essentially, the Red Sox lost a touted young prospect, but gained another one a few weeks later, and at a position that is in more demand in the system.

    Brad August 24, 2007, 1:20 pm
  • Woosta-
    Agree with your point on Koskie (They do have an ’08 option on Koskie, which I am sure will be declined). That guy has the skill set to be a decent player if he could only stay healthy. The free agent third base class is thin, but Koskie and Lowell are the “Cream” of that crop. 2009 will provide a better selection: Glaus, Blalock, Crede and Chipper Jones. So if Alex does flee a 1 yr stop gap is a great idea.
    Also you are 100% correct about 1B. One idea could be signing Michael Barrett and moving Jorge to 1st base. Being a former infielder the transition shouldn’t be too difficult for Jorge. This will also give us a 3 year solution and extend his productivity. Getting out from behind the plate could only help his longevity.
    Great post Woosta, not that you need me to tell you so. Very insightful.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 1:26 pm
  • 1. Sign Posada.
    2. Offer A-Rod a blank check. If A-Rod wants to leave, then he’ll leave no matter what they offer. But this won’t come down to money.
    The Yankees have more money than anybody else, plus they have the Rangers paying part of the salary. It would be very, very, very tough for any other team to come up with an offer that would be substantially greater than what they Yankees could offer.
    If A-Rod just wants more money, the Yankees are the best bet. They can (and should) offer more than anybody else. If A-Rod just wants out of NY, then he’ll leave regardless of the offer.
    But if A-Rod wants to get out of the NY pressure cooker, why on earth would he go to Boston? Boston is just as tough on its athletes as NY. If he goes, he goes to California.
    3. Sign Mo to a short (1-2 year) contract, maybe with an option to add more based on health.
    4. Sign Betemit.
    5. Then sign Abreu.

    KurticusMaximus- YF August 24, 2007, 1:28 pm
  • KM – If Mo would agree to a 1-2 year contract I think all Yankee fans would be for it. I just don’t think Mo or his agent (Fernando Cuza) would go for it, I think it will be 3.

    Anonymous August 24, 2007, 1:32 pm
  • RE: Manny
    The Sox are probably going to trade Manny somewhere this offseason to get something for him before his contract expires. I don’t know what they could get for him, but they’ll try harder this offseason than in the past.
    RE: ARod
    If the above happens, they will go after ARod hard; they’ve proven they’re very interested by holding out on resigning Lowell. A Red Sox lineup without Manny is going to be significantly weaker (like a Yankee lineup without ARod would be) so the Sox would push extremely hard for him. I think (hope) ARod has realized that New York loves him now that he’s putting up more MVP numbers, but that if he slumps at all next year the way he did in 2006 (which were still excellent numbers) the fans will go right back to booing him. The Boston media is tough too, but compared to the New York press anything is a step down.
    Also, I think that if ARod did come to Boston the Yanks would probably scoop up Lowell. I would hate to see that happen.
    RE: Gagne/Gabbard
    I think it was an amazing deal at the time–we didn’t need Murphy (with Ellsbury coming up) and we traded Gabbard when he was at prime value. Gagne has proved to be a real shitty aquisition, but like Woosta said maybe he can turn things around in the playoffs. Stranger things have happened in baseball before.
    RE: Mo/Jorge
    Jorge I would resign for 3 years, but I would get a shorter contract for Mo. He’s been really up-and-down this year and hasn’t looked like the same closer that he’s been in past years. This is probably more wishful thinking on my part but I feel it’s pretty risky.

    Atheose August 24, 2007, 1:36 pm
  • We’re ignoring the fact that Cashman has already said that if he opts out, the Yankees won’t be in the mix. Yankee fans are sidestepping this little nugget as if they know for fact that he’s lying.
    Why would he risk pissing off both Boras and A-Rod, when he clearly knows that he doesn’t have a cat in the fight, like with Matsuzaka.
    A-Rod, hearing that Cashman claimed that he’s “not worth it for the Yankees without the Texas money” can’t exactly be elated to hear the GM state his worth to the world.
    I know you guys would love to believe that Cashman is simply sticking it to Boras where it hurts, but Boras (above anyone) knows that by moving ARod to Boston or LAA, the end sticking goes directly to Brian Cashman.
    Boras is in complete control, and Cashman knows this, which is why I think he’s being genuine in his remarks about not bidding for A-Rod. Boras knows that even without the Yankees in the mix, A-Rod is getting more money from someone for longer. Cashman knows that too, just as we do, so why make disparaging remarks towards the player in which you diminish his value to you?
    I happen to think that, for once, the Yankees will play frugal with him.

    Brad August 24, 2007, 1:38 pm
  • One last comment, with regards to NY vs Boston media: Shaugnessy aside, the Boston media is rather light on it’s stars. Manny is having a down year and they’re not ripping into him the way NY ripped into ARod last year.

    Atheose August 24, 2007, 1:40 pm
  • Re: Sox will try to trade Manny: When have they not?!?!?
    Woosta, if the Yankees went after Manny my love for the team would be seriously shaken. I really don’t like him, don’t like his admire-every-home-run BS, don’t like seeing him in the field. Yeah, they could go for him as DH, especially if they need a right handed bat, but I would literally be happier with a weaker hitting yankee team without manny than a stronger hitting team with him. That’s how much I dislike him. In the hall-of-hated-RS over the past decade for me, he comes up only slightly behind Schilling, Pedro, and around equivalent to Cowboy-up moron and Trot.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 1:43 pm
  • Sorry, Brad, I just don’t agree on Gagme. They gave up too much for too little. And I’m very certain history will show that (unless he helps them win a ring).
    Papelbon has been UNDERworked this year. And they had a nice division lead. The impact of a fantastic relief pitcher is mimimal, especially in two months, and Gagme hasn’t come close to that standard.
    RE: A-Rod
    I’ll just reiterate what other are saying – It’s not about the money.
    I agree on Carter, unless he really is unable to play an adequate first base. And he may not hit enough to be a DH. But I certainly would have rather the Yanks traded the equivalent of what the Dbacks got (a crappy young pitcher) for him.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 1:45 pm
  • Ironhorse: I don’t blame you. If Manny played for any other team than the Red Sox, I would hate him. Some of what he does is funny (the petting of Tavarez had me giggling for a week) but the rest is just annoying. I’ll miss his power when he’s gone, though. Ortiz needs someone behind him.

    Atheose August 24, 2007, 1:46 pm
  • Brad: I don’t think anyoen is ignoring Cash’s stated intentions. I think several YFs are saying that prior to any possible optout, the Yankees will offer a very large extension of his current contract, and will be aided in doing so by the continued Texas payments for the next three years. What they could offer at that point, is likely to equal as much or more than what any team would offer after an A-Rod opt-out and so A-Rod’s decision to opt out will probably say more about whether he actually just wants to leave NY than about the money.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 1:46 pm
  • Do Red Sox fans truly want A-Rod in a Sox uniform? It seems to me that he’s been public enemy #1 for both the Sox players and fans since he signed with the Yanks. It wasnt just Trot…spring training of ’04 began with a different Sox player each day stating how it would have never worked for ARod in Boston. And any visitor to this site or bostondirtdogs the past few years can attest to the amount of hatred and photoshopped images directed at ARod.

    dknyc August 24, 2007, 1:46 pm
  • I have no problem with Manny. None. He has a job and he does it very well (except this year). For the Yanks, he’d be mostly a DH with maybe a little RF thrown in.
    And I’d rather Manny than Vlad. The latter’s back worries me, even as he’s he significantly younger. Plus, they’d get Manny on a cheaper, shorter contract.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 1:49 pm
  • Make that Spring Training ’05

    dknyc August 24, 2007, 1:49 pm
  • Brad –
    Because of the difference in the current deal plus the Ranger money, any other team has to give A-Rod another 200 million in a brand new deal (7 years @ 30 million). The Yankees get by with 150 million (5 years @ 30 million) because it’s an extension.
    To A-Rod that’s all the same money. Indeed, the Yankees will make it so (more money in the extension than any team could pay). The Yankees have gotten A-Rod very, very cheaply. They’ll make up for it now if they have to.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 1:54 pm
  • dknyc,
    I think a lot of Boston fans and players would be willing to forget some of the past if it meant ARod coming to Boston. Especially if Manny is gone–they’re going to need that extra power in the lineup, otherwise Ortiz will get 4 IBB’s a day.
    Woosta, I’m with you with regards to Vlad’s back. He’s an amazing hitter and I wouldn’t mind seeing him involved with a Manny trade to Cali, but I picture him doing one of his crazy bend-over-and-swing-at-a-pitch-3-feet-outside maneuvers and pulling something.

    Atheose August 24, 2007, 1:54 pm
  • Woosta, re: “He has a job and he does it very well (except this year)”
    I would agree with you, assuming his job description reads:
    1. Hit for power and average.
    2. Run out at least 25% and no more than 50%of the balls you hit.
    3. Keep your head in the game 25-50% of the time that you are in the field (to be judged by whether you know how many outs there are, throw to the correct cut off man, play in the appropriate position based on hitter, pitcher, and situation, etc.)
    4. Keep your head in the game 25-50% of the time you are on the basepads (to be judged by knowing how many outs there are, not over running a base or getting caught in between bases).
    5. Have a mediocre arm in the outfield as judged from assists and general strength/accuracy of throws (he has one assist this year playing in the easiest assist-outfield-position in history).
    Yes, Manny is a freak of nature as a hitter. Unfortunately, this isn’t softball where he can bat and someone else can run the bases for him, let alone play the outfield, even as a sub.
    But in the end, I admit that purely on performance, and if you are looking at him primarily as DH, that you are right. He is a phenomenla one-dimensional player and DH is a pretty one-dimensional role. Much of my reaction regards his attitude and my persistent – perhaps unreasonably – adherence to the belief that the Yankees try to play the game a certain way, and that Manny’s way is not it.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 2:07 pm
  • From a business standpoint – ARod’s time in pinstripes coincides with record breaking attendance. Because Steinbrenner is, first and foremost, a business man,the yanks will spare no expense in re-signing him. If he leaves, his choice will be made because of personal reasons – fan treatment, playing in Jeter’s shadow, his family’s happiness, etc. In such a scenario I see little chance of him signing with boston – the angels are the obvious fit.
    Sign Mo to his usual 2 year deal – that will take us through ’09; he said that he wants to pitch in the new stadium before retiring.
    Sign Jorge for 2 yrs if possible – if not, pony up for 3, and deal with a possible position change.
    Pick up Abreu’s option.
    Brad,
    “…the inferior mate to his left on a daily basis. He knows that he’s the best player on earth, and I think he wants it to be known by the city and fanbase, and I don’t think that happens in NY”
    Would that happen in Boston, given the “inferior” (by your declaration) hitters (Ortiz and Manny) batting before and after him in the lineup?
    (Sorry, couldn’t let the Jeter bashing slide…)

    Anonymous August 24, 2007, 2:16 pm
  • me. Typekey is such a royal PITA!

    Andrews August 24, 2007, 2:17 pm
  • Another option to consider would be signing Aaron Rowand and declining the option on Abreu. I myself would like to see him do it offensively one more season before I get on the bandwagon, but defensively he surely is sound. The issue then would be do you move Rowand or Melky to RF? Just another option to throw out there.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 2:18 pm
  • Does A-Rod need to formally opt-out before he can talk to other teams without it being considered tampering?

    Anonymous August 24, 2007, 2:24 pm
  • “the end sticking goes directly to Brian Cashman.”
    Why would Boras want to queer his relationship a free spender like Cashman by making him look bad? It makes no sense…

    Andrews August 24, 2007, 2:24 pm
  • CAUTION! THE FOLLOWING MAY BE CONSIDERED HIGHLY INFLAMMATORY. THOSE WITH WEAK CONSTITUTIONS SHOULD NOT ATTEMPT TO READ.
    Iron –
    I actually think Manny would fit in better in NY and in the Yankee dugout.
    In Boston, it’s Manny or Papi. And Papi has been universally beloved. By contrast, Manny has gone through many, many, ups and downs with the team, the organization, the fans, and the media. He loafs and, after many years of collective gnashing, there are no consequences. It’s just “Manny being Manny”.
    Being more of a strict DH would help. There would be less opportunity to criticize him. And as a native New Yorker, he’d be treated like one. Moreover, the other stars would help keep him in line and busting his butt through the example they set. The fans will love what he does (as a DH 75% of the time) and the media will find bigger fish to fry. Manny would have more of a chance to be himself even as he’d play harder.
    In Boston, he’s done more for the team and for longer than Papi, and yet he isn’t treated as such. New York would be a fresh start. I think he’d play accordingly.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 2:32 pm
  • Andrews,
    No.
    He’s clearly better than both of them as all-round players, and he knows it. As do we.

    Brad August 24, 2007, 2:35 pm
  • That’s not true, Woosta. The fans have always loved Manny. The media just hates him.

    Devine August 24, 2007, 2:36 pm
  • Woosta, valid point about Manny, but what would we do with Damon and Giambi in ’08?

    Andrews August 24, 2007, 2:36 pm
  • John –
    Melky may hit enough to be a RF, or he may not. I think that’s still very much up in the air. And that’s also why I think they’ll pick up Abreu. It will give them one more year to see the development of Melky. With his cannon, he could be the RF if he’s OPSing .850 consistently. Then they still have a fading Damon for CF in 2009 and Gardner, Tabata, and Jackson as the homegrown talent waiting to take over.
    The more I think about it, the more certain I am they will pick up Abreu.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 2:37 pm
  • Woosta, I couldn’t agree more. I think in NY, Manny is just as good as any player they’ve had there in ten years. Maybe twenty. I’ve always felt that he wanted to go there, go home, and stick it to the Red Sox for all they’ve done and not done for him.
    I’ve always held the belief that we had the opposite all-stars. The press conference ARod gave saying that he loved Boston, that his family was there, and that he couldn’t wait to be in the uniform and all has always made me wish that he was in Boston and Manny was in NY.
    The two fit better. Much better. Regardless of the hypothetical stats Iron Horse thorws out there, Manny does indeed play LF just as well as Matsui, and has played in all but three games for the Red Sox this year. I’ll chalk it up to yet another Yankee fan buying into other Yankee fans rhetoric that Manny doesn’t try or care.

    Brad August 24, 2007, 2:39 pm
  • The 2008-09 FA class includes Endy Chavez, Moises Alou and Shawn Green, Which means the Mets will be looking for OF help…Something tells me Mr. Minaya will have some say in where Manny ends up.
    Just throwing that out there…

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 2:40 pm
  • Brad, granted, but my question was if “he wants it to be known by the city and fanbase and I don’t think that happens in NY”
    would that happen in Boston? Given the reverence for Ortiz (and others) there, I don’t.

    Andrews August 24, 2007, 2:43 pm
  • Agreed Woosta, I think the Abreu option is as good as done.
    You bring up Damon which is yet another issue. I think the Yankees may be best suited to see if they could find someone to take him of their hands in the off-season. He is under contract through ’09 and if he can’t play the field, I really don’t see the point of keeping him as a 4th OF’r/DH. Since nobody will take that Giambi (signed through ’08 with club option in ’09) contract, the best shot we have is to dangle Damon out there.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 2:45 pm
  • “The two fit better. Much better.”
    Manny plays 3rd??
    Fits better, says you, not me…

    Andrews August 24, 2007, 2:46 pm
  • Manny isn’t free until 2009 (if Beantown doesn’t pick up his $20M option – can’t see how they will with Papi).
    Giambi is free for 2009 (they’ll buy out for $5M rather than pay $22M). Indeed, the problem with Giambi is that he can’t play anywhere else (like Papi). Manny can at least play a little OF to rest Matsui and the RF.
    Damon is still serviceable as a CF (his RATE and RF are actually above average this year – he can cover the ground).
    With Manny, they could go Matsui, Damon, Melky (RF) in 2009 and rotate in Manny when they’re resting Jorge/A-Rod/Jeter/Matsui/Damon in the DH slot. If Damon is really putrid by that point, they’ll have a youngster (Gardner, Tabata, AJax) to rotate in to win the CF job.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 2:46 pm
  • “Damon is still serviceable as a CF (his RATE and RF are actually above average this year – he can cover the ground).”
    But his arm is a SERIOUS liability. Seeing him in person, it’s really shocking how weak it is. I would hate to see him back in CF on a regular basis

    Andrews August 24, 2007, 2:52 pm
  • Brad –
    A-Rod would have been a fantastic fit in Beantown and as a fan it would have made the rivalry so much better. You can thank Lucky for that one.
    Jeter made things so much harder for him than he needed to. And with A-Rod on the other “side” it wouldn’t have mattered. It would have been more fun.
    That said, we (and they) are past that point. I know I’ve love to have Manny hitting in that lineup.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 2:53 pm
  • 2008 by Trisk:
    C – Barrett
    1B – Posada
    2B – Cano
    3B – Betemit
    SS – DJ
    LF – Hideki
    CF – Melky
    RF – Abreu
    DH – Damon/Giambi
    Bench: Molina (Re-sign), Gonzalez, Duncan, Gardner

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 2:58 pm
  • I could see them trading Damon. But they won’t get much in return and they’d still have to pick up some of his salary. Maybe Atlanta after Andruuw leaves?
    Otherwise, 50 games in CF, another 25 in LF, and 25 as the DH wouldn’t kill them.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 2:59 pm
  • I think Posada is still serviceable as a C, and I don’t think they’d re-sign him to then go out and sign another full-time C. And I honestly think Posada (with Pena watching him) will be a good enough C and esp. with his bat, to retire there. I don’t think there will be a need to move him. I bet he’d sooner retire.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 3:02 pm
  • Wow and just checked the score. 1 to 1 in the middle of the third. Beckett has thrown 57 pitches through 2 innings.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 3:05 pm
  • Agreed, I don’t think the need to move him, but by moving him they can help the team on the whole. There is nobody out there via free agency at 1B (Sean Casey), so if you could land Barrett why not try Jorge at 1B, I don’t think the transition would be too difficult and it has it’s definite advantages as far as longevity.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 3:08 pm
  • Woosta,
    Make it 50 in LF, and 25 CF, and I’ll sign on…

    Andrews August 24, 2007, 3:08 pm
  • 2007 Free Agent First Basemen:
    Sean Casey DET
    Tony Clark ARZ
    Jeff Conine NYM
    Julio Franco ATL
    Kevin Millar * BAL
    Olmedo Saenz LAD
    Mark Sweeney LAD
    Mike Sweeney KC
    *=Club Option
    2008 Free Agent First Basemen:
    Rich Aurilia SF
    Ben Broussard SEA
    Carlos Delgado * NYM
    Nomar Garciaparra LAD
    Jason Giambi * NYY
    Wes Helms PHI
    Kevin Millar BOS
    Richie Sexson SEA
    Mark Teixeira ATL
    Frank Thomas * TOR
    Jim Thome CWS
    Daryle Ward CHC
    *=Club Option

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 3:10 pm
  • I don’t think it’s a good idea for at least two reasons:
    1) It’s easier to find a 1B that hits (though with the Yankees recent history…) than a C that does. Better to have both, than one or the other.
    2) I think Posada has too much pride. He’s worked very hard to be a decent catcher. I don’t think he’d give that up. Not the least in 2008, if ever.
    As for Damon in the OF, I could imagine some work around that gets him playing about 100 games in 2008-2009. It’s not ideal, but then they waited three years to find a CF.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 3:13 pm
  • I was pretty sure Hatteberg was a free agent this off-season. But, man, that’s an ugly list.
    Cashman did try to sign Wes Helms this past off-season. Great.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 3:15 pm
  • Brad,
    I never said anythign about how many games Manny plays in. In fact, the very fact that he has played in all but three games this year and still has only one assist in the most assist-friendly position in the entire league is testament to my argument about his poor fielding.
    I don’t think Matsui is a great fielder, but he is certainly better than Manny. Even if you argue comparable arms, I can’t believe you would think Manny’s range matches Matsui’s – not because Matsui’s is great but because Manny’s is nothing. And Matsui has to police death valley in left center, Manny has to patrol a living room. Manny gives elderly Barry Bonds a run for the money for worst outfielder in the league, so please…
    I admitted that I was being unreasonably harsh on Manny because I don’t like his style of play, but are you really trying to say that the mental lapses of Manny are just a creation of anti-Manny media? He is c…a…r…e…l…e…s…s in the field and on the basepads.
    Woosta’s strongest argument is based on the fact that he is talking about Manny as DH – and I admitted that this role plays to Manny’s one-dimensional skill set. But I think you have very weak ground to defend Manny as anything but a pure hitter.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 3:17 pm
  • Both very good points.
    As for #1, I think that catcher is out there in Barrett (or even LoDuca). Will he give us the numbers that Jorge would, no, but then again nobody would. Now if you tell me we had to get Ausmus and then move Jorge to 1B I tend to agree with you. It’s all predicated on being able to sign Barrett (or LoDuca).
    #2, I agree Jorge has worked hard and I am sure it wouldn’t be his first choice, but he’s a team guy.
    I think they missed a chance this past offseason by trying to get Kotchman. His value coming into this season was low. Too late now.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 3:21 pm
  • “…But, man, that’s an ugly list.”
    Sure is! I agree with you. Like you said in theory you would think finding someone to play 1B that can both hit and field would be easier then to find a catcher, but that list proves otherwise. Don’t even look at the 07 list and skip to 08:
    The only player on that list that I would want is Tex and I am certain the Braves will lock him up long term. They traded away TOO much to let him walk.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 3:29 pm
  • Barrett is good for:
    .266 .323 .427
    on his career and he’s trending downwards.
    Lo Duca is good for:
    .288 .338 .413
    and also trending downwards.
    So a .750 OPS from both?
    I’d rather have Jorge and his .850 OPS behind the plate and a Hatteberg or Millar (shudder) with an .800 OPS at 1B.
    Actually, I’d rather have a young 1B (like Carter). But .800 OPS from a decent prospect isn’t that tough to top. Shoot, Juan Miranda could probably give that. At the very least, Betemit could.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 3:35 pm
  • Woosta,
    You have now supported the possible acquisition of both Manny Ramirez and Kevin Millar by the NY Yankees. I feel myself drifting very very far from you……….Woosta………………..are you still there………………………..Wooosta…

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 3:39 pm
  • In the AL, the first base position seems to have degraded significantly over the last couple of years. The NL has a bunch of big name first baseman, especially now that Tex is in Atlanta. One upshot of this is that having a mediocre first baseman in the AL doesn’t put you at such a competitive disadvantage. You’re not losing as much ground as you previously had. I am not saying that I’m happy with the Yanks’ situation there, but I guess it’s not quite as alarming as it could be.
    Now, I think the most realistic option for the Yanks to significantly upgrade the position might not be an attractive one: Todd Helton. Because of his contract, the Rox are always going to be willing to talk about trading him. He is a high OBP guy, a good fielder-very comparable to Youkilis.

    Nick-YF August 24, 2007, 3:40 pm
  • Sad as it is, Iron, I root for the uniform. I hated the Damon signing. Now, they just need to do what it takes.
    Nick –
    I’m all on board with Helton, but I fear that ship has sailed. When the price was cheap (because everyone though he was hurt – like Lowell and Tavarez cheap) it made a ton of sense. Now I’m not sure how much they’d have to give up. And the prospects plus the money owed, plus the chance his road hitting predominates, plus the chance his back could give out makes it a very tough call to support.
    I’d rather they trade some of that pitching for a young 1B like Votto. Send the Reds any two pitching prospects not named Hughes, Joba, or Kennedy.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 3:46 pm
  • Brad-
    I don’t think anybody is ignoring Cashman’s statement that if A-Rod opts out, the Yanks won’t chase him. In fact, I think he’s being really smart about it.
    If the Yanks don’t chase, Boras suddenly loses a lot of his negotiating power. Now it becomes a bidding war, without the biggest bidder. Boras can’t say “Well, Boston, that’s a nice offer, but look what Cashman just offered…”
    It also makes it a much bigger gamble to opt out. There’s no safety net, and there’s a reasonable possibility that A-Rod would end up signing without getting much of a raise from his current salary, thus negating the entire purpose behind opting out at all.
    All in all, a good (and expected) move from Cashman. And it goes to show that this really isn’t going to come down to money. Nobody leaves New York to get more money.
    RE: Manny
    As a Yanks fan, I think I’d throw myself off a roof if he came to New York. Boston fans seem to like him, so that’s fine. You guys can have him. I don’t care what his batting average is, I don’t want that guy in our clubhouse.

    KurticusMaximus- YF August 24, 2007, 3:52 pm
  • Off topic (sort of), but as you’re talking about the future of the Yanks…
    I just inherited a TERRIBLE fantasy keeper team, and I’m in the process of overhauling the roster. The guy has Shelly Duncan on the bench. My question – is there any scenario under which Duncan is a starter for the Yanks next year? Isn’t he basically a 5th outfielder?

    Tyrel SF August 24, 2007, 3:55 pm
  • While Helton looks more attractive than anyone on that list, I don’t like the idea of being locked into an older guy with injury issues and a full no trade through 2011.

    Andrews August 24, 2007, 3:56 pm
  • If they could get Votto, go for it! I doubt that Cincy would give him up, but it’s worth a try. He’s got 21 HR’s, .390 OBP and he’s batting .300. He was the 43rd ranked prospect going into ’07, he’s also 24. Add to that Dunn being a FA in ’08 and Griffey in ’09, I think the asking price would be sky high.
    Helton is an option, but only at the right price.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 3:57 pm
  • Tyrel the only way you keep Shelley is if they throw in Chris! Otherwise he is useless fantasy wise.

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 3:59 pm
  • Regarding A-Rod, how many teams can afford him? In reality, can Boston afford him as an increment to their existing payroll or will they have to drop someone expensive and who would that be? I just don’t think Boston can afford adding the expense.
    Abreu? Melke can play either center or right so you are looking for a center fielder or right fielder and there are plenty with good numbers and much better defense.
    In my opinion, Cashman has FINALLY learned the lesson that defense wins in October, not bats and this is going to be a big factor in his thinking.

    Steve August 24, 2007, 4:02 pm
  • “Barrett is good for:
    .266 .323 .427
    on his career and he’s trending downwards.”
    …and maybe a sucker punch aimed at Varitek and/or Mussina…:) (would love to see both, actually)

    Andrews August 24, 2007, 4:04 pm
  • Woosta…
    “Moreover, the other stars would help keep him in line and busting his butt through the example they set.”
    Do you honestly think Manny is going to change his behavior because he’s with another group of people?
    I think the whole country doesn’t understand Manny. He’s a pod. He’s not lazy, he’s not loafing on purpose. He just lives on Planet Manny, and since they haven’t sent a representative to tell us what’s going on there in years, good luck getting in his head and changing his ways.
    Frankly, I love the guy the way he is.

    LocklandSF August 24, 2007, 4:04 pm
  • Outfielders
    Bobby Abreu * NYY
    Moises Alou * NYM
    Milton Bradley SD
    Mike Cameron SD
    Brady Clark SD
    Jeff DaVanon OAK
    Adam Dunn * CIN
    Darin Erstad * CWS
    Kosuke Fukudome, Chunichi, Japan
    Luis Gonzalez LAD
    Shawn Green* NYM
    Eric Hinske BOS
    Torii Hunter MIN
    Geoff Jenkins * MIL
    Andruw Jones ATL
    Bobby Kielty BOS
    Rob Mackowiak * SD
    Orlando Palmeiro HOU
    Corey Patterson BAL
    Aaron Rowand PHI
    Reggie Sanders KC
    Brad Wilkerson TEX
    *=Club Option
    Steve where are these “plenty” you speak of?

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 4:05 pm
  • Shelley Duncan won’t start outfield for the Yanks. Melky and Matsui are back for sure and most people expect Abreu to be extended. If he is not, Yanks will go out and get someone before relying on SD. Then there is Damon, who is still under contract.
    Most people view him as a flash in the pan, all be it a very pleasant and inspiring one for now. But his power is legit – there is no denying that.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 4:06 pm
  • Thanks Trisk, that’s what I thought. I’m going to drop him for WMP. Seriously.
    This team I inherited is AWFUL, but it’s a long term keeper so I can build it up over the next couple years.

    Tyrel SF August 24, 2007, 4:07 pm
  • Gentlemen I am out of here. Thanks for a GREAT day of baseball discussion! I have my fantasy football draft…and with the 3rd pick Team Trisk selects Larry Johnson out of Penn State.
    Go Yanks!

    John - YF (Trisk) August 24, 2007, 4:08 pm
  • Tyrel –
    It they don’t pick up any one, I have to imagine Duncan is in the running for 1B. He’s shown he could give them an .850 OPS and that would make up for any fielding problems. In my mind, it’s better that than signing a Millar or Hatteberg. They could even re-sign Minky and have a defensive lefty for when Wang is on the mound.
    Steve –
    All the other options for the OF would come on expensive multiyear deals (Jones, Hunter, Rowand). Abreu is one and one. Cashman prefers that flexibility than getting tied down with longer deals.
    Lockalnd –
    He could. Different city (where he grew up). Other superstars around him that bust their butts (Jeter and A-Rod; unlike Papi). And as mostly a DH, I think he’d be more ready to kick it into gear when necessary.
    So, yes, I do think he could be a different player for the Yankees.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 4:12 pm
  • I think you’re dreaming if you think anyone is going to change Manny, but we can agree to disagree.
    I’m pretty sure it’s a moot point though, I really don’t see Manny ending up in NY.

    LocklandSF August 24, 2007, 4:16 pm
  • “Abreu is one and DONE”
    BTW: Duncan is starting tonight. Abreu is terrible against lefties – worse than Damon even.

    Anonymous August 24, 2007, 4:19 pm
  • Penalty flag for Lockland! He’s about ready to ruin this thread with the incendiary ad hominen! All cause I don’t agree with him! Quick, someone threaten to ban him!
    (And Lockland, I think you have your head up your ass. But we can agree to disagree.)

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 4:22 pm
  • Huh? How and in what way did I attack you?

    LocklandSF August 24, 2007, 4:26 pm
  • Woosta: good point about Duncan at first – I forgot about his play there. I would actually support that experiment – put the kid in a regular spot and see how he does, especially given limited options.
    On Damon, someone tell me what you think the deal is. At first I figured injuries, but this is deeper than that now. Is it just a throw-away year frmo which he is likely to rebound, or has his bat slowed enough that he is just a declining hitter even if he is spared the center field play?

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 4:29 pm
  • IronHorse…
    Watching him play every day in Boston, we knew his body couldn’t hold up for much longer, the same reason we all loved him was the very thing that was going to shorten his playing days. He was just a constant danger to him self. This is exactly why a lot of Red Sox fans were fine too see him go.
    It’s not so much of an “injury” but just repeated and sustained abuse of his body of long period of time.
    It’s possible that he could turn it around, lots of slow rehab for his shoulders, knees, back, wrists, and every other important body part might work.

    LocklandSF August 24, 2007, 4:34 pm
  • I think them seeing Duncan at first every day in the Spring would help. He’s young and agile enough and has played a bunch of games there.
    Another manager would help too. I mean Melky couldn’t hack CF last year (in Torre’s mind).
    And with Duncan he could have a a .900 OPS season or two in him. Not likely, but he could. He’s already shown he’s not a simple smash or K hitter. Small sample but his K:BB in the majors has been about the same as it was in AAA, and that equals about 100 K in 400 AB against 50 walks.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 4:36 pm
  • Damon’s recent numbers make you think he is coming around. I think you have to chalk it up to injuries, but time will tell, and that time may be spent in another uniform…

    Andrews August 24, 2007, 5:08 pm
  • Last year when they were shoe-horning Sheff into first and we had gotten our first sustained look at Melky in teh outfiled, I was wondering if Damon could hack first – not only to allow us to start Melk, but also to lengthen Damon’s career and also because, at that time, we had nothing at 1B. Well “nothing” has now been replaced by a mish-mash. Doesn’t it make sense to talk to Damon after this season and tell him that if he wants to start for the Yankees, he should get work in at 1B in the pre-season and could land himself an every-day place there if he can hack it. It’s perfect for his lack of arm and has some of the least wear-and-tear of any position on the field.

    IronHorse-YF August 24, 2007, 5:33 pm
  • Problem is, Iron, will Damon hit enough to be a 1B? You could get a defensively challenged 1B like Millar or Duncan who will give you an .800 OPS at least. I’m not sure Damon would give that and his defense, having never played the position, isn’t likely to make up the difference.

    Woosta YF August 24, 2007, 5:37 pm
  • I can’t comprehend why the Yankees aren’t trying to extend Rodriguez now and have stated that if he opts out they aren’t interested. How can they not be interested? How can they not be trying to lock in this guy? He SAVED their season. He’s the best player in the game, one of the best ever, in his prime.
    This is negotiation? If I’m Scott Boras, I’m laughing. Do the Yankees think that by announcing their intention to bow out of the bidding they are making Rodriguez cheaper? Has Scott Boras ever not been able to create a market (Jarrod Washburn, anyone?) when true free agency is available? I find the Yankees supposed future conditional non-interest laughable from a baseball standpoint. If they want to give up the third base position to someone else, I will be absolutely thrilled. So I think they are bluffing. And if they aren’t, they’re stupid. The former won’t work for them with Boras, and the latter works just fine for me as a Sox fan.
    As for a three year deal for Mo, why not two if he’ll take it? Not saying he will, but I don’t see why the Yankees would ink a guy through age 41, no matter what his legacy. If that’s the deal it has to be, then maybe.
    Abreu: agreed, exercise the option, deal with the position long-term in another year.
    As for A-Rod on the Sox, I love the guy as a player, and I have been able to root for plenty of folks who I don’t like off-the-field or whose persona I find off-putting. Sign him up, it’s not my money. Machiavellian, maybe, but Curt Schilling and I couldn’t be further apart politically and religiously, but thank goodness he played for the Sox in ’04.

    SF August 24, 2007, 9:57 pm
  • SF –
    Who’s going to pay 30M$/year for A-Rod? How about 35M$/year?
    The point is, as others have mentioned, the Yankees can pay everything and anything. We all know this. So it’s a game of poker. But A-Rod can’t leave NY for more money.
    It’s the same as Matsuzaka, actually. Well, not really but at least in this point: The culture has determined the outcome. The only question is how much? And the Yankees pay it. Because the best players belong in NY.

    Woosta YF August 25, 2007, 12:15 am
  • ” The former won’t work for them with Boras, and the latter works just fine for me as a Sox fan”
    SF, of course he’s bluffing – you know as well as anyone that this is just a negotiation dance. What do you expect Cashman to do, hand Boras a blank check? Is anyone really surprised?
    To back up my earlier point about Damon, here are his numbers for the past 28 days:
    AVG OBP SLG OPS
    .351 .424 .500 .924
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=damonjo01&year=2007

    Andrews August 25, 2007, 2:11 pm

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