Big Apple Upcharge?

Do our esteemed Yankees Fans who visit this site really think that the Brian Cashman can’t make deals like Theo Epstein just because he’s a Yankees employee, as many who post over at do?  This thread, which is about the Wily Mo acquisition, includes several entries that posit that Epstein gets players, and I quote one comment, "practically for free, deals that would never be made for Cashman".  Another states that for this reason "it’s futile to compare them on this basis". 

Can this be true?  Does our beloved Theo really have players handed to him like cocaine to Kate Moss?  Does Cash have to work that much harder with his trade partners?  Is Theo such a super-genius that other GMs just throw their hands in the air and give up potential studs for a pile of resin bags?  Are the members of NYYFans from this planet?  Help us out, YFs.  Tell us what you think.

10 comments… add one
  • Only spoiled, whiny Yankee fans could come up with such pretzel logic to explain away their preposterously, outrageously lavish payroll.

    Hudson March 22, 2006, 9:32 pm
  • “Yankees Fans Caught in Being Stupid Shocker!”

    airk March 22, 2006, 10:16 pm
  • I would say that there’s a lot of MLB owners and executives that don’t like the Yankees for a number of reasons, among them, the Yankees money, the Yankees success, and George Steinbrenner, not necessarily in that order.
    And there,s some of them that will be damned if they’re going to do anything to help the Yankees.
    Here’s an example. Jerry Colangelo, who used to be GM of the Diamondbacks, hated Steinbrenner for reasons that go way back, and may have been justified. I know ol’ Georgie hasn’t been a saint for much of his life.
    Anyway, when Curt Schilling became available, the Yankees had first crack, and Arizona demanded Soriano and Nick Johnson, or no deal. Cashman said no way, and Big Schill ends up going to the Sox for what, Casey Fossum and a couple of nobodies.
    Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that was the trade. Are you kidding me? It was screw the Yanks, or give him to Boston, which could end up hurting the Yanks, and did.
    Now, that’s just one example, but I do think there is at times, a certain bias against the Yankees.
    Having said that, I think Theo is a great GM, and a first class guy, and deserves lots of credit for what he’s done for the Red Sox.
    Trying to compare Cashman and Theo, who are in two completely different situations, is like comparing apples and oranges.

    whatever March 22, 2006, 10:51 pm
  • First of all, SF, did you read the whole thread? I just did, and aside from the quote, it’s really not that bad. Most of the arguments are basically that there is a Yankee tax due to the fact that Steinbrenner will pay more because he’s like a 3 year old and he wants it now!!!!!!!!
    I, too, agree that the Yanks get short-sided on a number of deals, but it’s not all Cash’s fault (so he claims). This past off-season was favorable based on non-moves. The minors are in tact, and for the most part we’re a better team (as long as nobody gets injured). If Cash has full control, we’ll see what happens. We’re not going to be getting any handouts (see: Mark Loretta), however.
    whatever: Brandon Lyon, Jorge de la Rosa, and Michael Goss are the other gems that were traded with 5’4″ 120lb Fossum.

    RichYF March 22, 2006, 11:09 pm
  • Of course Theo gets players handed to him. It’s in the fine print of his contract. Besides, what other GM could resist Theo’s dizzying intellect. Cashman is a mere mortal, and at an obvious disadvantage. I mean, how do you induce a trade when you have dollar bills pouring out of your eyes?? It sounds nice, but in reality it’s a disgusting sight. Very difficult to work with.

    mrdavis March 23, 2006, 12:35 am
  • Really only have two thoughts on this topic:
    1. Cashman doesn’t have the same kind of freedom to wheel and deal that Theo has. Don’t get me wrong, Larry the Snake can be as much of a pain in the ass as King George, but the crucial difference is that Larry doesn’t think he knows more than his GM about who to acquire and for what.
    2. There may have been a Yankees tax in the past, but I’m not sure I see it to be particularly prevalent now. Its more of a large market vs. small market tax. Often, what the Sox consider reasonable dollars-wise is not reasonable for the small market teams. So when young Theo makes a trade, he often has to throw in some cash to subsidize the small market teams taking on higher salaries. A case in point is Arroyo for Pena, but there have been others. I’m sure Cashman has to contend with the same kind of mindset.

    Craig March 23, 2006, 6:30 am
  • Yes, I read the thread, which is why I asked our readers to chime in. I can’t imagine this is a position held by a majority of Yankees fans. We tend to hear the following about Cashman:
    1. He hasn’t ever had full power, so it’s hard to know what he’s capable of.
    2. He’s a good GM, regardless of the Yankees budget.
    and because of their budget
    3. Cashman’s skills can be attacked, since there’s no way to know what he would do on a team where he would have to think like Billy Beane, or Cashman’s skills can’t be criticized, since he’s just working within a system not of his own design.
    I haven’t yet heard about the Yankees being at a disadvantage because of them being the Yankees, nor had I heard much about a Cashman/Epstein comparison being patently unfair, just because of their team circumstances. If anything, some Yankees fans have criticized our rosy view of Theo because they assert that the Red Sox and the Yankees are the same, both big market teams that have nearly unlimited funds, and therefore the GMing is of limited challenge. Beyond the Schilling deal, which was in the short term a total cracker for the Sox and which Yankees fans have complained about for some time I hadn’t encountered this line of reasoning. On the other hand, if you look back in several years and the worst case scenario transpires this year w/r/t Schilling’s health, you might find that the Sox traded 4 players – two of whom are major leaguers and cheap – for a $40M, one-season pitcher. Not exactly a fleece job, the World Series notwithstanding. And the Schilling thing may have been reprisal over the David Wells screw-job, don’t forget. It was situational, not institutional.

    SF March 23, 2006, 9:10 am
  • NYYFans is the lowest common denominator of Yanks fans as far as intelligence goes. I had to stop reading those forums because of all the two word, idiotic, pointless replies in every thread. It sucks because it’s too open, SOSH sucks because it’s too closed, and it’s tough to find a happy medium. Blogs like this and some of the ones you guys link to are increasingly the best place to read Yanks (or Sox, for you chowderheads) discussion. My guess is it’s only a matter of time before the message board hordes invade the blogosphere.

    knuckles March 23, 2006, 9:30 am
  • One thing that’s not clear to me is how important issues such as taxes are to players. All these guys are in the highest tax bracket, and playing in NY for 50% of the games has got to be a huge slice of one’s salary taken away. Definitely compared to TX and FL; probably compared to BOS as well. It sure seems like some players are so motivated by money that issues such as those could make a real difference. Just a thought…

    Earl March 23, 2006, 9:38 am
  • Good point, Earl. As a NY denizen I can attest to the steep taxes, though I don’t have to pay them like A-Rod. I kind of wish I did! For all the complaining about high taxes, if you’re paying them it means you’re in a high bracket, and not doing too badly. YF’s 6 year, $118M contract with this site puts him in that bracket, and all I hear from him are complaints. It’s tiresome.
    Massachusetts has a top personal tax bracket of 5.3%, New York’s is 7.7%, the federal tax is obviously the federal tax consistently. Mortgage exemptions and other things I don’t know about. It would seem that there isn’t a huge difference between the two states, though NYC taxes are an additional burden, perhaps a nominal one. Like you say it’s a battle between places like Florida, Texas, and other states that have extremely limited personal income taxes and states like New York and Massachusetts. Or Canada vs. the States, though the US dollar has weakened to the point that a dollar there isn’t as devalued. It’s an interesting thought you have, and there may be a dissertation on that subject somewhere. Or even at another blog.

    SF March 23, 2006, 10:07 am

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