Sox Gamers/Postmortems Yanks Gamers/Postmortems

Game On? Sox-Yanks Hopeful Gamer

In the unlikely event there is a game tonight, comment here on your Josh Beckett/CC Sabathia Beantown/Bombers action.  Otherwise, have at it on whatever topic of the evening you wish.


Celtics v. Magic Game II
NBA draft (Waiting for my Blazers to pick a guy who actually bursts in
to flames moments after hugging Stern)
Habs (YAY!!!) v. Flyers (BOO!!!)
Hawks (BOO!!!) v. Sharks (why do they have hockey?!!)

Comment away

201 replies on “Game On? Sox-Yanks Hopeful Gamer”

You aren’t missing much dc, this game is BOOOOOOOO-ring, aside from the fact we are winning it’s been a snoozefest. Weather is terrible in the Bronx tonight…
CC struggled but made it through 6 and only gave up the HR to Youk. That’s what makes him so great, doesn’t have his best stuff but still battles. Good stuff.

Flyers won again tonight…wow, they are on fire. All the injuries yet still rolling. I really don’t like Philly in any way but hate the Habs more so…hope the Sharks just crush whoever comes out of the East anyway. That’s my $0.02 on hockey.

Get stream torrent, dc, works a lot of times for me when I get no TV coverage, when overseas or just in blackout, wathever. If you wanna blame the broken shutout on me, krueg,I’m fine with that, coming in unnanounced and all… hehe

I like to think that the rain factor is what’s making CC kinda struggle, with a guy that merges power and accuracy like him this weather really must be a bitch. And like you I hope Sharks dismantles chicago, since I’m a Redwings fan.

Yeah, thanks to a early teens in Motown I fell in love with the game from the north. Hockey is actually ranked 3rd only after football and baseball for me, I’m not a big NBA guy, unless Lebron comes to NY,hehe

Yep, I’m more hockey than baseball, more a Yankee fan than a baseball fan. I can’t watch other games if we aren’t playing. Sabres kill me every year.

Yeah, but they made the call to the bullpen BEFORE they even came out to the mound to check on Beckett…it was weird. Thus the protest.

I’m like this, if my team is out, I want the other conference to win, no matter who, or if the Yanks are not in a postseason(not that it will happen soon) I want a NL team to win, except the Queens team,of course. Actually I’d really like a NLW team on the WS this year, maybe the Zito and Lince team? Or the Brooklyn of the west.That’t be nice.With the Yankees there of course

I really don’t even pay much attention when my teams are out Fiddy…i didn’t watch a second of any of the Sox World Series games. I haven’t really watched any of the NHL playoffs once the Sabres lost. Football is different…if I never watched after the Fins lost/didn’t make it I wouldn’t have watched football much the last decade!

It’s not their announcers so much as the commercials, spots for sox dating shows, etc. They distract with all the hot chicks ala FOX news…
Joba gives up a single to Ratatouille, 1st and 2nd, no outs…COME ON JOBA!!!!

Yeah, that’s true about the Fins,man. I just like to watch any kind of playoffs, it does have a good side because you can’t posibly suffer about any result, you just point out good and bad things but your heart won’t skip a beat about anything, when it’s not your team there.

5-fucking-4. You have got to be kidding me. Joba is getting, not rocked, but knocked around…that call on first was big.
1st and no outs now.

Me too…but I’m staying up to watch “Justified” regardless. It’s a great show on FX if you haven’t been watching it by the way.
Joba cannot even throw a fucking strike???

On that behalf I’m thankful for the Yanks, the Wings and occasionally the Giants to give some shots of happiness ;) Need a coffee, thanks Joba. One out VMart grounds Youk to 2nd.

Haven’t watched yet, kr, will look into it. I’m watching older ones now, Carnivale and Hung.Man, is Papelbon available to pitch to NY cause tonight? Seems like the Yankees need clutch pitching by Paps.

Papi admiring his HR, I mean, hit off the wall…ties the game but gets gunned at 2nd.
We left so many men on base in this game.

Thames is a terrible fielder Ath, it is what it is but Papi should have run it out…not a valid comparison dude. He did tie the game though so…

Well it’s one thing to be a poor fielder, but he didn’t even TRY to field it. He just slowly jogged as if he knew it were a homer.
Though if he did it on purpose to fool Ortiz it was genius.

That’s not the point krueg. The point is that he didn’t even TRY to field it. Saying “he probably couldn’t catch it” in retrospect is irrelevant.
Ortiz’ laziness still had more negative impact though.

It would be genius if there was none on base, it cost a precious run though. Now is time for Jeter’s hit of the game, he needs at least one to keep up avg, come on cap’n.

What gets you in the craw from a dad’s standpoint is when the free games get killed for you, like last night’s AWESOME game (and it was awesome).. damn school plays. My son was an owl.
Who Who.

They called to the bullpen before going to the mound and saying Beckett was hurt, thereby allowing Delcarmen as much time to warm as he needed, which the Yankees objected too as how could they know he was hurt without asking him???
Jeter singles…he was due. 2 out rally???

Looks like the pitching coach came up to the mound without the trainer and then called for a injury replacement, so it looked like Becket asked out, maybe I’m way off here, but it was a weird move.

I’m not sure I understand what’s wrong with the scenario. The whole “let the bullpen pitcher warm-up longer by talking on the mound” thing happens somewhat often. Or am I missing something?

Because Delcarmen wasn’t warming up…therefore, he should have had to come in cold. The Yankees are saying the Sox lied about Beckett being hurt to give Delcarmen more time to warm up…if he were hurt, how could the Sox have known without at least coming to the mound first. He appeared to be fine?

Oh, so he came straight to the mound and was given extra time to warm-up on the mound, not in the bullpen?
Whew Bard gets out of this. Though it’ll just end in the 9th with another walk-off.

Tex chokes. We have left like 1,000,000 guys on base this game…I can’t wait until we get our real lineup back. Sigh.
ps I hate Mo coming into tie games. Just sayin’.

I’m not sure of the rules, Ath, but they keep saying that the pitching coach going without the trainer.So maybe he couldn’t qualify to call an injury to the ump and the sub without the trainer being present. Maybe krueg might have a better explanation, I wasn’t really paying attention at the time…

My internet service is a fucking joke…kinda like Marcus “I can’t catch a fucking pop fly” Thames. Lucky we pulled out the game last night. This is just horrible. WE NEED OUT FUCKING STARTERS BACK!!! Get well Curtis and Swish please…
Luckily my internet was out when it all went down. I’ve calmed down some. Motherfuckers.

Not to mention the ump squeezing Mo…I mean, Hermida actually struck out. Same thing happened in the last Twins game. Not sure what that’s all about…
Here we go again. I can’t believe I stayed up for this but I can’t turn it off when we still have the magic.

I am stuck with the provider in my complex, some kind of bullshit contract…I pay $53 a month for basically dial-up but they call it high speed. I hate living in Memphis.

Paps is pacing in the pen like a beast trapped too long on a cage. Let’s tame the beast Yanks.
And by the way, I don’t believe he blows it this time.But I sure hope so.

Walk…up to Miranda now. Can the kid come through??? I’m not going to even say what’s in play now with 1st and 3rd, 1 out…not going to say it.

Told you. Debilitating loss right there. Turning point for the Sox. Rays are going to fucking kill us the next two games.
Fucking pathetic effort. Thanks Joba and Thames.

Game. I’m pretty sure Paps is gonna puke for a long time now in the clubhouse out of relief ;)
Good luck with the rest of your sequence Sox, you gonna need it.
Winning streak starts tomorrow 7:05 vs Tampa

Yeah it’s pretty funny when both teams have entire outfields that are devoid of starters. Hall/McDonald/Hermida and Winn/Gardner/Thames are pretty underwhelming.
And yes I realize that Gardner is a starter, but still.

Is there anything more pointless (bordering on childish) than protesting a game? When was the last time that worked?
And would the Yankees expose Hughes to injury under the same circumstances? Put the shoe on the other foot and it shows the petty and ridiculous nature of such protests.
Not to mention that the Yanks were up 5-0 at the time. Did Manny Delcarmem score 7 runs?

Obviously SF’s are going to think it was pointless, but it wasn’t. There is a clear procedure for the scenario that was not followed. Am I saying that the Sox cheated or anything? No. But procedure certainly was broken. I mean hell, I’m no baseball purist/expert/whatever and the wife and I both thought it was weird??? I get Girardi’s point. What’s to stop other teams from yanking starters that are falling apart and saying they are hurt?
You really can’t see this Hudson???

I think it’s pointless in the way that it won’t stand up. Watching the video, Farrell AND the ump motioned for the bullpen – Farrell appeared to tell the ump that there was an injury.
It was definately weird though.

What’s to stop other teams from yanking starters that are falling apart and saying they are hurt?
This is pure flame throwing here. The guy was coming off a week when he missed a start with back spasms. Falling apart had little to do with the fact that he was probably pitching under that condition in cold, pouring rain last night. I’m sure spasms aren’t something easy to deal with (never had a back issue), but something tells me he probably put up with it as long as he could.
Assuming, correctly or incorrectly, that Beckett asked out because he was getting hit is very short sighted. You have no idea what was going on.
I listened to Francona this morning, where he stated that “Josh was in some pain, and it was getting worse. Ferrell went to the mound, and asked if he was okay, and Josh responded that he was not. Ferrell told the umpire that we have an injury and need to get a pitcher, and the umpire said okay and they both motioned to the pen for an arm”.
Paraphrasing of course.
Earlier in this thread, you stated that they called to the bullpen before speaking to Beckett, which was not the case at all. Francona said he knew something was wrong before Ferrell ever went out there, and they went out to allow for time, but when Ferrell got there Beckett was really hurting, so he made his own call.

So you are saying Beckett wasn’t kinda falling apart at that point in the game? Perhaps you weren’t watching?
It’s not an indictment of the Sox or Beckett per se, more the situation and how it went down. It was unusual and I completely see the Yankees point. I have never seen that happen before. The commenters on YES pointed it out and the Yankees “protested” the call. I’m not flamethrowing, it was weird. And Beckett was getting knocked around at that point Brad…not shit talking, he was.

“I listened to Francona this morning, where he stated that “Josh was in some pain, and it was getting worse. Ferrell went to the mound, and asked if he was okay, and Josh responded that he was not. Ferrell told the umpire that we have an injury and need to get a pitcher, and the umpire said okay and they both motioned to the pen for an arm”.”
Except that’s not at all what happened. They motioned to the pen well before anyone went out and talked to Beckett, which is the issue. The fact that the injury was mentioned after that fact and Delcarmen was then allowed as much time as necessary was the issue. It really isn’t that big a deal to me, but I see our point. I also see your point, as SF’s, thinking it’s stupid. I wonder if it were the other way around if you and the other SF’s would feel the same way. I doubt it.
Again, really not that big a deal.

And this statement, “What’s to stop other teams from yanking starters that are falling apart and saying they are hurt?” was to say how OTHER TEAMS could abuse the same situation…it’s pretty clear I wasn’t talking about the Sox.

And on cue, Beckett to the 15 day DL.
And yes, they motioned to the pen because he said he knew “beckett was hurting bad”.
And yes, I would feel that way. If Joe had noticed something was wrong, motioned to the pen due to injury, I would completely and utterly understand his delimma. Especially when said pitcher is placed on the DL 12 hours later. He wasn’t asking out because he was getting hit. He was asking out because he couldn’t stand the pain (per Benjamin) anymore and couldn’t pitch. It wasn’t a freaking ploy to mess with the batter. It was an injury, and while you’re right, they did go about the replacement wrong, they knew he was hurt. Going out there was just the next logical step.

“They motioned to the pen well before anyone went out and talked to Beckett”
that is not correct. They talked to him, and the umpire and Farrell motioned to the pen.

No one claimed the Red Sox cheated – let’s not erect that straw man. And therefore proof that Beckett was really hurt has nothing to do with the poin other than to prove what we all suspected anyay.
But the Sox screwed up on a procedure for which there are rules – in other words, they broke a rule. The yankees, being up 5-0, didn’t wait until they lost to lodge a protest, they caught it as it happened and said something.
Just as Billy Martin’s protest of Brett’s pine-tarred bat was petty gamesmanship because there was no way Brett’s breaking of a rule had anything to do with the home run he hit – and yet it was legit in that Martin was correct as per the rule (and therefore the protest stood up) the same could apply here.
When Chris Webber mistakenly calls a timeout at a critical juncture in a game, should the referees have just looked the other way because it really didn’t effect the game and Webber was clearly not meaning to break the rule?
When a golfer nicks a blade of grass that barely nudges his ball without in any way effecting how advantageous the lie is, is it ridiculous to enforce the rule that penalizes him for it?
You can legitimately argue either side of any of these cases: A. enforce the rule and gain any advantage you can over your opponent if you ever catch him breaking a rule even if you know he didn’t do it to gain an advantage OR B. use judgment to gauge whether the breaking of a rule gives the offending team an advantage and only enforce the rule if it does.
What you can’t do is say either is “absurd” because that’s just plain wrong. Sports are governed by rules. And let’s not pretend that the only option would have been “putting Beckett at risk of further injury”. There was another option: make MDC pitch without extra warm-up time. And that’s what enforcement of the rule would have led to.

No one claimed the Red Sox cheated – let’s not erect that straw man.
But isn’t the point of protesting to say that the other team had an unfair advantage in a game? That’s what Remy said “protesting” is.
It’s definitely an unusual situation, but I have yet to see anyone actually cite a broken rule.

The Yanks didn’t protest what the Sox did. They protested that the umpires missed the enforcement of a rule.
In the end, the Sox did indeed enjoy an advantage over what would have been had the umps enforced the rule by the book, which is the only way umps and refs can and should enforce rules so as to avoid preferential treatment, corruption, or even simply the appearance of improrpiety. If the umps decide to let something slide for whatever reason, that’s fine – as long as they do it consistently (nieghborhood plays, strike zones, etc.). But if they let something unusual slide and the opposing team calls them on it, it’s hard to see how the opposing team could be seen to be in the wrong.
Again, I don’t think the issue is that the Sox did anything to gain an advantage – Farrell simply had a brainfart. Then the umps did too. And Girardi was not absurd to call out the umps for not catching it. In fact, if Girardi worked for me and did not catch such things I’d be upset. If this was Game 7 of a playoff series and MDC got warm-up pitches he should not have gotten by the rules of the game, I think even those who are criticizing Girardi’s actions now would want him to do the same thing if they were his manager.

The rule on warm-up pitching:
When a pitcher takes his position at the beginning of each inning, or when he relieves another pitcher, he shall be permitted to pitch not to exceed eight preparatory pitches to his catcher during which play shall be suspended. A league by its own action may limit the number of preparatory pitches to less than eight preparatory pitches. Such preparatory pitches shall not consume more than one minute of time. If a sudden emergency causes a pitcher to be summoned into the game without any opportunity to warm up, the Umpire-in-Chief shall allow him as many pitches as the umpire deems necessary.
It never says that you have to notify the umpire of the injury before calling for the replacement pitcher. So calling for Delcarmen and then notifying the umpire of the injury is not in violation of the rules.
If no announcement of a substitution is made, the substitute shall be considered as having entered the game when:
8.03.J.1 If a pitcher, he takes his place on the pitcher’s plate;

If the umpire wasn’t immediately notified of the switch then Delcarmen technically didn’t enter the game until he set foot on the mound. So the Red Sox calling to the bullpen means nothing until the umpire is notified or until he’s physically on the mound.
Discussion over.

Krueg and other YFs defending the juvenile “protest” move… No matter what you believe (from listening to John Sterling or Michael Kay or whoever) that the sequence of events was with the umps and Farrell, do you also think the only on-field communication that occurs is via mound visits?
You don’t think players ever manage to communicate their situations to anyone else on the field, or that something could have been shouted to the dugout by Youk or a coach or the catcher, etc.? Especially with there being a far less than full stadium on a night like that (i.e., a lot less fan noise than usual)?
Anyway, launching a Federal investigation of exactly what happened is as silly as these protests are in the first place. Again, when was the last time a protest actually affected any outcome?

Having said that, I can see how the above could be abused by certain teams. But that’s why you have on-field umpires to make a decision on a case-by-case basis.

Atheose, I am more than happy to get into a discussion about what the rules actually say and to be proven wrong on them since I don’t pretend to know them all. I do think that what you cited however – which is primarily from the “pitcher” portion of the rulebook (chapter 8) – is only part of what is at issue and not the part that Girardi protested.
What he protested is drawn from the Game Preliminaries section (chapter 3), specifically the portion regarding how substitutions are to be made. I’ve cut and pasted the relevant paragraphs below. The part you cite at the end of your post above (that – if no announcement is made – a pitcher is considered to have entered the game when he steps on the pitcher’s plate) is a bit misleading out of context. As you’ll see below, that statement is meant to cover for the umpire if HE hasn’t announced the substitute. It is not meant to cover for the manager for substituting a pitcher without first (and, by the letter of the rule “immeediately”) informing the Ump-in-Chief. If I read it correctly, for all injuries, it is actually the Ump-in-Chief who determines that a player is in fact too injured to continue on
and then the manager informs him of the substitute, which he (Ump-in-Chief) then announces.
Now according to the rule, MDC shifts from being an “improper” pitcher to a “proper” pitcher as soon as he throws his first pitch. But this is why Girardi protested when he did – he protested at the point when MDC was still improper.
Again, not pretending to be an expert – I am looking this stuff up too – but it is not as clear as your citation makes it appear and I think it is actually clear that Girardi was technically right.
(a) The pitcher named in the batting order handed the umpire-inchief, as provided in Rules 4.01 (a) and 4.01 (b), shall pitch to the first batter or any substitute batter until such batter is put out or reaches first base, unless the pitcher sustains injury or illness which, in the judgment of the umpire-in-chief, incapacitates him from pitching…
(c) If an improper substitution is made for the pitcher, the umpire shall direct the proper pitcher to return to the game until the provisions of this rule are fulfilled. If the improper pitcher is permitted to pitch, any play that results is legal. The improper pitcher becomes the proper pitcher as soon as he makes his first pitch to the batter, or as soon as any runner is put out.
Rule 3.05(c) Comment: If a manager attempts to remove a pitcher in violation of Rule 3.05(c) the umpire shall notify the manager of the offending club that it cannot be done. If, by chance, the umpire-in-chief has, through oversight, announced the incoming improper pitcher, he should still correct the situation before the improper pitcher pitches. Once the improper pitcher delivers a pitch he becomes the proper pitcher.
The manager shall immediately notify the umpire-in-chief of any substitution and shall state to the umpire-in-chief the substitute’s place in the batting order.
The umpire in chief, after having been notified, shall immediately announce, or cause to be announced, each substitution.
If no announcement of a substitution is made, the substitute shall be considered as having entered the game when —
(1) If a pitcher, he takes his place on the pitcher’s plate;
As for Hudson’s much less rational – though typical – commentary on the subject:
1. “launching a Federal investigation”
2. “Listening to John Sterling, Michael Kay”
3. “do you think the only on-field communication that occurs is via mound visits”
4. Hudson
1. hyperbolic and absurd
2. irrelevant and unnecessarily snarky
3. completely irrelevant
4. all of the above

I’m not an expert either, I just quickly looked up and pasted what I thought were applicable rules. I guess my question now is: what’s an “improper” pitcher? I assumed an improper pitcher was one who was not qualified to pitch in the game itself. I can’t find a definition of “improper pitcher” though.

It seems to me it was just about Delcarmen’s warm up time, that was what was in question and the source of the protest. I wasn’t trying to say “Beckett sucks” or that the Sox cheated, just that I understood the protest. I also understand what you guys are saying and why you are peeved. I think IH pretty much summed it up and again, it’s no big deal.
Just got back from playing 9 holes to see we have picked up where we left off…sucking ass. I guess this is where we fall apart until everyone heals up. Fuck it, I have DVR stuff to watch anyway…

Ortiz learned his lesson about not hustling last night. He hits a homer (that’s not called a homer) and he hustles the whole way and ends up on third.
Umps reviewing it thankfully.

It’s pathetic that we have homerun-reviewing technology and so many umpires are unwilling to use it. Ortiz’ shot last night was almost not reviewed (Tito had to argue for far too long before they eventually did), and Josh Hamilton hit what was CLEARLY a homerun but was never reviewed despite insistence from the Rangers’ coach.

i’m with you ath…umpiring has become more of a challenge than ever with the advance of technology putting every call/non-call under a microscope, but that’s no excuse for not using common sense…i wouldn’t think the umpires should have any discretion here…if it’s a close call, take a look…after all, wasn’t that the whole spirit of installing replay in the first place?…and if there’s a question about what’s “close”, go ahead and appease the protesting manager…hello, bud, bud, bueller, are you out there?…what i wouldn’t give to see guys like earl weaver or billy martin interact with this current crop of umpiring boobs…that would be some funny stuff…

It seems some of these umpires have bigger ego’s than the players? They don’t want to be shown up by technology…whatever it takes to get the call right would be preferable.

“…They don’t want to be shown up by technology….”
but they are though, that’s the problem, and why replay was started in first place…not using it in an attempt to get the call right just makes them seem more clownish…sorry if i sound like i’m on an anti-ump rant, but it’s annoying as f to have the guys who are supposed to have the least impact on a game having the most impact…

Ath, Krueg, and DC: Ditto.
Ideally, the job of those presiding over the game (Umps, Refs, etc.) is to make the correct call and be a backdrop to the game. The best situation is if you don’t even notice that they are on the field–I believe there are some umpires who believe that their calls (mistakes included) are “part of the game” as one would say, where in fact they should exist in background to those actually participating.

I hate umps dc…no apology needed. The crazy endzone dance-like punch outs??? Really??? Joe West the walrus calling out our collective teams and going so far as to calling them names???
I hate NHL officials more. ALL officials should be seen and not heard. Period.
PS Man, do we need a win tonight. Pettitte needs to come up HUGE! I think our pitching has been the issue lately, even more so than all the injuries…

I told you Ath…you guys are on fire now, we are the opposite. Although, we are mounting a comeback with 1st and 2nd, no outs in the bottom of the 9th. Only problem is we’re down 4 runs!
Wake me up end of June when we’re healthy. Assuming we can get/stay healthy ever…

I have a feeling we’re going to have to get used to this for awhile. Thank science we started out well so when we start playing .700 ball around mid-June we’ll be fine.
I hope.

You guys are just going through a bad streak. Joba and Mo having back-to-back horrible outings? How often is that going to happen? Though Joba’s velocity (or lack thereof) is surprising. He was in the low 90’s in the Sox game.

Hopefully it’s just s funk…we’ll see. Either way, the Rays must be stopped. My friends in Tampa are becoming unbearable…as if any Championships are won in May. I tell them act like you’ve been there before but of course, they haven’t. ;)

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