"You don’t have to have a whole lot of experience to understand that
the game hasn’t changed. That’s what I’ve been talking to the guys about: Go out there and play baseball." – Kenny Lofton
Leading today’s gamer with a quote from current Tribesman and ex-Yankee Kenny Lofton may seem odd at best and a taunt of the mystic at worst, but the simple nugget of truth in Lofton’s message is the most honest thing I have read in the days of speculation, taunting, and prognostication surrounding the Yankee’s current "dilemma". Four days ago, Lofton produced four RBIs while leading the Indians to a 12-3 thrashing of Chien-Ming Wang and the New York Yankees. Then Carmona and Pettitte treated fans to a fine pitcher’s duel for the ages, regardless of insect insurgency. Their backs to the wall, the Yankees went out there and played baseball yesterday, capitalizing on missed pitches and defensive miscues, not letting three early runs stand in the way of their taking adavantage of the opportunities offered to play baseball again tonight.
Chien-Ming Wang is eager for his chance at redemption and picks up the ball for the Bombers on three days rest. Cleveland sends Paul Byrd, who lost his final two starts of the season while giving up 10 runs and 20 hits over 10.2 innings, his last appearance being September 27th. The Yankees faced Byrd August 11th and chased him after two innings.
There will be plenty of time to talk about contracts and clutchness, to say fond farewells and good riddances, to argue what ifs and what nexts, whether that conversation starts tomorrow or several weeks hence. Right now, go out there and play baseball, lads. Lineups will follow when I find them, comment away.
Pete Abraham recently reported that Ron Villone has been added to the roster in place of Roger Clemens.
Here are the lineups:
YANKEES
Johnny Damon LF
Derek Jeter SS
Bobby Abreu RF
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Jorge Posada C
Hideki Matsui DH
Robinson Cano 2B
Melky Cabrera CF
Doug Mientkiewicz 1B
Chien-Ming Wang RHP
INDIANS
Grady Sizemore CF
Asdrubal Cabrera 2B
Travis Hafner DH
Victor Martinez 1B
Jhonny Peralta SS
Kenny Lofton LF
Franklin Gutierrez RF
Casey Blake 3B
Kelly Shoppach C
Paul Byrd RHP
I don’t really understand the Shoppach move, Garko has been on fire. The only thing I can think of is Shoppach is Byrd’s catcher, otherwise it makes no sense. But then again neither does throwing a pitcher that lasted 2 innings last time he faced his opponent, while you have an ace waiting in the wings.
Go Yanks.
You don’t really want do-or-die games.
But you cherish them anyway.
I for one have always talked about taking the long view. About how the value of a team is best described in how they handled the season and the variances. About how the best team does not always win the short series and that not winning 3 of a particular 5 games is not reason enough to blow up a team.
Yet here we are. Needing two wins in two games against Cleveland, who decided to help us out by pitching Byrd instead of C.C. Although it is true that C.C. starts the *probable* Game 5 with Carmona providing relief, Cleveland could have attempted the killing stroke here instead of playing the conventional.
So here we are. I view the Yankees as a good team and a great plan. We have youth to invigorate us and veterans to sustain us. And thats a mixture that creates success for the foreseable future. Thats the long view. Its worth mentioning, but not really satisfying.
What would be satisfying is an easy comfortable victory at the Stadium and hoping it travels to Cleveland and stands guard against Sabathia. And the Holy War that is Yankees-Red Sox. The standards of satisfaction versus sanity will then change.
I try to think of the long view, because it is the sane, logical thing to do and it acts as a bulwark against me going crazy. Because I know that if the Yankees *gulp* lose today, the weeks of misery that follow will be horrible. We will dissect this loss along with the other losses, but end up with no real explanation besides “we lost. they won.”
And thats never satisfying and never enough, no matter how often you try to rationalize.
This may have already been beaten to death once Wang was announced to be the starter, so my apologies if this is old news. But I’ve always wondered, and this is as good a time to bring it up as any, what really is the deal with sinkerballers on short rest?
Whenever someone like Wang or Lowe is pressed into duty in a postseason situation after short rest, invariably the speculation (or outright declaration) that he’ll benefit from it begins. This begs (screams for, really) at least two follow-up questions, which I’ve yet to see:
1. Do the results actually show this? I’m sure a study has been done on this, as it’s a pretty easy thing to actually see what they did and on how much rest. But how exhaustive (sorry, pun) was the study? Since regular rotations mean the guys usually pitch on “regular” rest, the times they get more or less are going to be few and far between, right?
2. If it’s so beneficial (and not just hopeful casting about for a rationale), then why would teams ever wait around until this sort of situation to ‘take advantage’ of the short rest? Why not make the guy tired all the time? At first this sounds like a variation on the old “why don’t they make planes out of the black box material?” illogic, but I’m a little more serious. If, that is IF, we are to take this well-traveled assumption at face value, why not try to use it, instead of having it just come to us? And yet, they (the analysts) just leave it alone, and leave me to hope it’s true (Lowe) or not true (Wang), and also wondering if they’re just making yet another thing up off the top of their heads.
Given that it’s come up again in the playoffs, has there been any further research/discussion on the topic?
Carlos that sounds exactly like the gamer I put together for tonight. Unfortunately a certain someone, not naming names, beat me to the punch and provided a gamer. (Just busting your chops AG!) To follow up on your comment, we have lost how many different series since 2000 in every way possible. A duck snort through the middle in 2001, shut down by a team of youngsters in 2003, choked on a 3 game lead in 2004, Bubba and Gary colliding in 2005 and so on. Regardless of how we lose, it always feels sh*tty. The bottom line is this year is last year’s next year, let’s win NOW.
FSP, I’ve wondered that, too. Julian Tavarez has said that he feels he pitches better on short rest — when he’s a little more tired. Which might explain why he did so well (relatively speaking) as a starter.
FSP, the only way I could imagine that the short rest makes them perform better is that they are more focused. Generally when a pitcher’s arm is tired their pitches will be up, sinker ballers can’t be up, they have to live down. So in theory a tired arm or a less rejuvanted arm (3 days rest vs. 5) should lead to more hittable pitches. I think what happens is they understand they won’t be as strong and need to pay closer attention to the mechanics and details of pitching. Again that’s just my thoughts.
Trisk –
The rationale makes “sense”, in a roundabout sort of way; I have no problems with the theory, as it were. But I’ve heard it so often, without those two begging questions being dealt with, that I’ve begun to wonder if it isn’t just one of those instances of intuition being wrong. Again, if it benefits the pitcher to be tired, then why not make him tired all the time? ‘Cause I remember lots of Derek Lowe starts before which he must have slept like a baby.
Sinkerballers on short rest make a lot of sense and the reason why they don’t always do it also makes alot of sense.
First off, although a sinker is not a changeup, it is a finesse type pitch. Its a pitch that requires a feel of the ball and a sense of touch. Even when Wang is throwing it in the 90s and thus its hard to think of strong arm = bad pitch, pitching on short rest probably helps keep him away from overthrowing the sinker. An overthrown sinker won’t stay down. It will flatten out, it won’t break as far down, it’ll be harder to pinpoit. Its the same reason why sinkerballer get better as the game goes on. The arm gets tired, the pitch becomes a bit slower, and it really starts to sink down into the zone. The slower a pitch, the more time it has to rotate, the bigger the break.
The reason why they don’t always pitch on short rest has to do with innings, doesn’t it? 200 innings is alot and thats what a healthy 4-day rest starter gets. What if you throw in a couple of three-day rest in there. He’ll get more turns in the rotations and break down faster. I think its a compromise.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Hey John, I just realize we contradicted each other. I won’t argue cause I’m not an expert, but isn’t it the rotation of the ball that determines its sink, and thus not related to arm strength?
John – stealing the threads right off your back. Watch out for yer shirt. ;)
You made me laugh out loud with the slept like a baby comment.
They do try to have them pitch somewhat tired, that’s why there is usually a throw day in between their starts. I don’t think there is a true answer or that it’s a given it will work. Remember Joe passed up the opportunity to do this last season Vs. Detroit. He could have brought Wang back on short rest and didn’t.
The Yankees replaced Clemens with Ron Villone. Ugh.
I thought all pitchers have a throw day between starts. Do sinkerballers just get to throw more?
Not trying to predict anything or hint at anything but….
October 8th, 1956: Perfection
On this date Don Larsen pitched a perfect game in the World Series.
Its completely explainable, but isn’t it ridiculous that we are 4 games into the postseason, with a month left before we know who the World Series champ will be, yet 51 years ago, we were already 5 games into the World Series?
FSP: Right, all pitchers have throw days, not just sinkerballers. I am trying to type with my 2 year old throwing his ball and glove at me. By “Them” I meant all pitchers, sorry FSP.
Carlos you are right the sinker really is a feel pitch rather then a grit your teeth reach back and fire pitch. I still think regardless of the pitch it comes back to focus. Knowing that you don’t have your best stuff forces you to stay focused and pay attention to your mechanics. Arm strength is always related somehow. Remember it’s really arm speed (see Billy Wagner/Scott Kazmir)that determines how hard you throw and arm strength determines how long you can throw hard.
I don’t think we are far off Carlos.
Carlos –
What you say makes complete sense, and it’s exactly the sort of thing I wish analysts would think about. Otherwise, when I hear someone make that connection, it just ends up sounding like some curious factoid or a sort of “Hey Didja Know?” moment, as opposed to serious analysis. Which is really what my quarrel was with in the first place.
Of course, back then we had 8 teams in each league, and 154 (instead of 162) regular-season games.
Just to cancel out the “anniversary of Don Larson’s Perfect Game” mojo…
…Wang is pitching a no-hitter! *waggles fingers at TV screen*
Okay. We may all return to intelligent discussion now.
Ron,
Its more than a little amazing to me to think of the differences. I have a little Kurkijan in me; sacrifice flies amaze me too.
I was flipping channels and caught a few minutes of “61*.” Through serendipity, the same thing was discussed. The scene was of reported talking to Mantle and Maris about the differences between Ruth’s time and their own. Maris, much like real life, was a bit surly about people bothering him about such a thing. He mentioned having to travel to the west coast, specialist pitchers, ball parks being bigger, and son. Hearing him speak, I realized the gulf between 1961 and 1927….and then realize how much bigger of a gulf lies between 1961 and 2007.
Its amazing to me that with all the changes in baseball, and they are legion, its still a game oldtimers (and by oldtimers i mean fans of 1927 magically transported :)) would recognize immediately. And even more amazing is the fact that even with all the changes, we have crafted the tools to compare players from all over.
Sorry Atheose. On October 8, 1980 Nick Cannon was born. As we all know Nick Cannon hosts the TV show Wild ‘N Out which just so happens to be CMW’s favorite show. Re-Mojoed! Nice try!
While I thought it’d make me happy, this whole Clemens travesty actually makes me feel sorry for the mercenary
mojo shmojo… here’s to Byrd flying high
The Indians decisions here seem odd. Byrd? REALLY? Sure Sabathia three 100+ pitches, but *I* would brign him back on short rest.. assumign that a different ump = bigger zone. Then SHOULD it be nessecary I brign Carmona back on short rest as well.
This is Win Or Go Home time. I just dont get it. The Yankees, wisely, are sendign out Wang on short rest and will, I imagine, use Pettite on short rest tommorrow.
I hope the Indians pull it off, but I think they don’t. Veyr bad decisions.
Wedge is showing faith in his team that got him there, good for the team’s morale, maybe not so good for results. The decision to sit Garko is also a little odd if you ask me, the kid is hitting well right now. Anyway, the Yankees need to score runs regardless of who pitches or plays 1B.
Dionysus… a couple of corrections, if you look at the Indians history of using their aces on short rest (See Bartolo Colon), you might understand their fear of using Colon after throwing 110+ high stress pitches… I would try C.C. even with the dangers entailed because the upside is there, and if he gets shelled, then Carmona is waiting in the wings… bottom line, The Indians think they’re going to win one of these next two and are looking ahead, unwisely, to the ALCS rotation
Supposedly VMart can’t catch 4 games in row. I read that somewhere earlier today.
Really off-topic, but upon reflecting that the only Yankee reliever not to allow any earned runs this postseason so far is Rivera, I decided to look closely at his stats this year.
True, his ERA was the highest it’s been as a reliever, and his WHIP his highest since 1997, but those are not very telling when it comes to evaluating relievers. One or two stupid blowouts or lucky hits or would-be foul balls that instead skim the line for a triple will skew your stats for the rest of the season. Instead, look at the cumulative stats: he had 74 strikeouts in 71.1 innings, which translates into his highest K/IP ratio (9.33) since his miraculous ’96 season. Not that K/IP really means that much for Mo, his has always fluctuated around (and more than not under) that 9 K/IP mark. The strikeout is not his signature.
His walk totals were superb. 12 in 71.3 IP is right around where he always is. Homeruns, at 4, were a little on the bad side, but honestly, it’s one homerun worse than last year.
It’s the hits, really, that inflated his rate stats. 68 hits in 71.3 innings pitched is by far his worst as a reliever, and that’s what screwed him this year.
So while Rivera’s stuff and control remain the same as ever, could it be his command has gone off? Or is his stuff becoming more hittable? Is this a big step in the inevitable decline of old age? Looking at the stats, it’s hard to really make that argument with a straight face. 8 hits, really, are the difference between no-doubt-about-it-still-Rivera, and uh-oh-there-he-goes?
There is no doubt in my mind that Mariano Rivera remains in the upper echelon of major league relievers. Was he as good as Papelbon, JJ Putz or Joe Nathan this year? No, but then he wasn’t as good as Eric Gagne or Brad Lidge in their heyday, and where are they now?
There should be no question that Mariano Rivera will be effective as ever next year. His stuff hasn’t gone anywhere (he can still dial it up to 96mph), and his health this year was better than his health last year, which is to say, it was impeccable.
Rivera is the best closer in the history of baseball. He may give up 8 or 10 more hits than he used to, but he’s miles better than most of the retreads out there. Resign him immediately after the season, for as long as he wants. As long as you’ve got Rivera in your bullpen, it’s automatically at least average.
End rant.
By the way Dionysus, they don’t play tomorrow. Game 5 is on Wednesday, so Carmona and Pettitte would be pitching on normal rest.
This TBS pregame show is horrible. They have Ron Darling on the set tonight and he looks like he got stuck in a toaster/roaster a little to long.
Yankees need to hit, bottom line. Doesn’t matter if Marlon Byrd was pitching. Hit early, hit often.
By the way, I really like Frank Thomas. This is the first time I’ve ever seen him in a non-crushing-homeruns mode, and I have to say he seems like a real class act. He’s not the best announcer, but he’s humble, clear and concise.
I want Frank Thomas to stick around too, so I’ve given him the in-studio nickname: The Big Shirt. Hopefully it will bring him good luck.
Anyone know a bar near Bay Ridge? Struck here without a TV, and the thought of only Sterling at a times like this ..
Byrd doesn’t make it three, that’s my prediction. If the Yankees can’t destroy a sack like PB in their own yard they deserve to lose.
Tie series. Bank it.
I want Frank Thomas to stick around too, so I’ve given him the in-studio nickname: The Big Shirt. Hopefully it will bring him good luck.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA thanks FSP. I needed a good laugh.
Go Indians.
SF – I agree, though I’m not banking anything yet..
Prediction: Byrd goes 5 giving up 4 runs on shortleash, Indians win 5-4 after bullpen comes in, surviving a JB bases loaded experience
In the words of Jim Carey, oops I mean Skip Caray, “Paul Byrd is not chopped liver.” Paul Byrd will battle and it takes a real team effort to beat a gamer like Paul Byrd.
Nice try SF!
A-Rod: 1-4 1 single
Is Mussina the standby long relief guy?
no jinx intended. I have no respect for Paul Byrd and tremendous respect for the Yanks. The Indians might win, but that result would surprise me.
Underway…
Sizemore with a leadoff jack.
Sizemore with a leadoff homer.
WOW….
Well that’s not a good way to start. I doubt that’s how it was written up.
You have got to be fucking kidding me.
Huh. Still, Cleveland jumped out yesterday…
awesome
Cabrera grounds out to Minky.
Ok good – groundball – that’s what we were expecting; lets just hope the kinks were all worked out with that pitch.
Wang’s definitely overthrowing… gotta keep that ball down wangie
well, in solace, the Yankees are facing Paul Byrd. ha.
Holy shit! I walked away to get a Sam Adams and I come back 15 seconds later and the Indians are up 1-0.
Off to a great start!
I know SF, I was just busting your chops.
Well, good job, Sizemore.
That’s your last Sam Adams Atheose!
I agree, he’s throwing way out of that sinker’s range.
Hah, Hafner tries to convince the ump that he got hit. Nice acting job.
Hafner takes one to left. Beats the shift.
Do you think his speed (95-96) is a sign of his stress or desire to “make up” for the last game?
So he’s overthrowing to make-up (when instead he should be doing the opposite).
keep… ball… down
exactly Rob
Does Wang’s pitches look flat to anyone else?
Hafner beats the pseudo shift. ARod was aligned at sshort.
Trisk, that’s the first Sam Adams of many if the game continues like this! ;-)
He just needs to pitch and stop throwing. I have to say, he doesn’t look sharp at all.
Think Wang can be talked into calming down?
I’ve always wondered how much the pitching coach can really do in talking someone into doing the right mechanics – I’ve always thought with pitchers you tend to be on or off.
i dunno trisk, this at bat with martinez is looking a lot better…
Wang is leaving WAY too many pitches up. He needs to settle down if he’s going to last more than Rocket did last night.
VMart grounds to Wang, Hafner to second.
Right and that’s because he isn’t trying to throw it through a wall. Just pitch Wanger, stop throwing.
The critical 2-out hits – gotta ensure Cleveland can’t keep those up.
How much of a pitch count do we think Wang gets tonight since he’s on short rest? I’m just wondering in terms of bullpen since I figure Joba is out.
Joba can pitch they said.
I’ve always thought with pitchers you tend to be on or off.
That’s true for a lot of pitchers, Rob, but the best ones are able to make small adjustments on the mound. Most experts will tell you that’s the most important part of pitching–making adjustments.
Posada with a super speedy sign to Wang. Hard to imagine that players can somehow steal them.
Wang usually starts out this way anyhow. If he can settle down, that would be good. We have to hit against Byrd anyhow..
Rob – they can hit 95 mph fastballs, I think they can read super speedy signs.. =P
I wonder what’s going through Mussina’s mind right now. Or Joe Torre’s for that matter…
Ok – remember when I said “gotta stop those 2-out hits”; DO IT!
Peralta with a blooping single that scores Hafner.
Bloop single to center field, 2-0 Indians. More 2-out runs for the Indians.
Wonderful.
Now a quail to make it 2-0. Blech.
Well, here’s Jhonny.
i’ll say this, the Indians are fighters
This game is far from over…
Let’s remember the other pitcher.
Lar, obviously I cannot hit a 95 mph fastball. I got dizzy trying to follow Posada’s signs.
Here’s the rampaging Lofton.
wang should be cut off at 80, regardless
Rob SF, more often then not you are looking to steal location more so then pitch. But if a runner is on 2nd for more then one batter is fairly easy to steal the pitches also.
Skeletor is cheering in the stands.
The sight of Rudy doesn’t help me.
Oh no, Rudy is in the crowd. They are pulling all of the old ghosts out.
Lofton grounds out to Wang.
Rudy Skeletor puts the hex on Lofton who grounds back to Wanger.
Rudy was there last night too.
I hope Frank Caliendo’s show gets cancelled after 1 show.
NOOOOOOOOO not another Frank TV commercial! (sorry gotta get that out of my system rather than whining about it the rest of the game)
Well Wang ends with a good sinker, but he seems to be hit-or-miss with them. Some are down, some are up – and that’s not a good sign. I’ll be curious to see how he comes out in the 2nd
This was not the ideal start to the game. Every Injun becomes Derek Jeter with 2 outs, RISP.
I agree Trisk, more than likely the majority of the signs had nothing to do with the pitch selection, but more a diversionary move to throw the runner on second off from stealing the sign.
But ask Brad he will tell you, stealing signs is bush. Location not so bush.
at this rate Byrd may give the indians a chance
Out for a bit. Daddy duty. Go Yankees!
OK I call for a Damon homer to start off the game – who’s with me?
Posada will say use my 3rd sign OR first sign after the fastball, etc…
Come on JD!
In a stunning turn of events, Paul Byrd threw a strike.
“He’ll invent stuff out on the mound if necessary.”
>>Here comes the turbo-screwball.
Ok I call for Jeter to ground out (let’s see how that one goes)
Jeter lines to right to single.
Captain singles with one out.
Bardol, Vagisil, I’ll even rub a little jalepeno in my nose get my nose running…You rub snot on the ball? Kid when you’re my age you’ll do whatever it takes to win.
C’mon Abreu, rally!
man Byrd has absolutely no power… this will be a long night
Where’s the squirrel?
Good eyes – I want Abreu to take a lot of pitches – Arod said that tended to help make him better at his at bat
Byrd equals disaster… here we go
“I don’t really understand the Shoppach move, Garko has been on fire. The only thing I can think of is Shoppach is Byrd’s catcher, otherwise it makes no sense.”
Guess I got my answer,thanks Bob.
Abreu singles.
You don’t need a HR from ARod, but c’mon, give us ANYTHING, and we’ll erupt!
Byrd doing his best job to screw up the 2 run lead he has.
This has the makings of a slugfest.
Okay ARod, time for a double play!
double play, here we go
Great – I’m happy he’s getting the MVP chants – he tends to need the support to get going.
I see a very fat meatball getting served here.
Sauce optional.
Good call Rob, he got and fouled it off.
I don’t know how ARod strikes out against Byrd. It makes no sense.
STRIKE OUT BY PAUL FREAKIN BIRD
Got A-Rod swingin’
At least it wasn’t a double play. here’s Posada.
Is this another game where we have to depend on the people (7-8-9 hitters) we’ll see in the next inning? I’m fine with that – just let me know so I don’t get my hopes up.
Would’ve been high. Ah well.
In an RISP situation, Posada scares me more than A-Rod because of a higher BA. A single is, after all, all you need to score the run.
1st pitch low and inside, a changeup…you don’t want to live there Byrd.
Something tells me this is going to be a very long game, no matter the outcome.
Chokey McChokester K’s. Giggle.
this has 4 hours written all over it, couldn’t agree more
stealing signs is like sleeping with a married woman. It’s not illegal for the guy, but it’s the most bush thing you could do in baseball.
I agree, FSP.
Posada swings through the old 96er.
Starting to rain here in NJ, about 20 minutes from stadium.
So much for Jim Carey’s call of no rain in the forecast.
or life…
Well, I hope they win, I don’t mind the long game..
Gorgeous change-up from Byrd, Posada swinging for New Jersey. 2-2 count.
Nice ccatch, Kenny!
Lofton’s wheels!
Lofton couldn’t hurt the Yanks with his bat last inning, so he steals people’s heart with his glove. I thought that ball may ddrop for minute there.
Ed – you guys whining about 4 hours? Just wait if it ends up being a Sox-Yankees series.
Heck we make regular games push 4 hours.
Posada dumps one to left field but Lofton barely gets there. Ah well.
Byrd got three outs!!! *opens champagne*
Rob SF – I like many others were trying to will the ball down lol.
Pitch counts through 1:
Wang 24
Byrd 16
Byrd survives one inning, two more and he bests his regular season start against the yankees
Seemed like Byrd threw more pitches.
Byrd at 17 pitches, Wang at 24 pitches after 1.
Wow, Guidry is really carving into Wang. I’ve never seen him this fierce/angry.
Let’s see how Wang does.
Sorry, 16, Rob SF’s right.
Leadoff single to start the 2nd.
I hear yah, soxs-yanks series… no sleep no how
Gutierrez with a hit. Another leadoff hit from the Indians.
Still up – that hit was on a ball that was mid-level.
Either Guidry told Wang to give up base hits, or he’s just not listening to him. Gutierrez singles.
So at this point you really ask – when does Moose come in?
Wang isn’t looking crisp – how much longer can we risk him leaving another ball up?
Come-on DP – need to change the tempo of this game.
stupid leadoff line… worst idea since the glowing red puck for nhl games
Blake singles past short.
1st and 2nd, no outs.
Wang’s steering wheel must be broken tonight.
Blake pulls one to the left side. 2 on no outs.
boos are coming out… sac bunt here
sorry… it’s the moose call
Man what to make of this – Wang has just lost it this post-season.
Moose is up in the bullpen. I can’t imagine it be that much better..
Mussina warming up.
Oh shit son! Fight!
WHOA
That was NUTS.
Where’s the replay?
“One of thses maangers is going to be upset”
Gee, thanks for some serious insight Tony.
HBP is the call.
Wow, the replay shows that it hit the bat! Even though the announcer says it hit his hand.
Rob SF – Don’t you just hate the TV announcers – look at the bright side, at least it ain’t the Fox crew. They regularly want me to throw a brick at my TV.
replay is pretty inconclusive if you ask me
Finally a good replay. Yep, definatly a HBP.
Now bases loaded, no outs. Still looks like a foul by if you ask me..
Man do you wonder what the game would be like if Moose had started?
moooooooooooooooose calls
Get it in the air, Grady
Indians radio announcers are saying it definitely hit the bat
Holy shit, Wang out after 1+ inning! Amazing!
Moose coming in.
Wow. Wang is coming out. I say take him out, but not right now, when he’s the best double play guy on the Yanks. Well, here comes Moose..
Wang out. I NEVER ever expected this. EVER
well I have a 52″ HD TV and the Yankees definitely got the short end that time..
At least Wang has that whole “more games in two years thing” going for him..
Moose should have been the choice to begin with.
that’s a quick hook there… rushed him back I guess
Good god – I have memories of 03 (please don’t let the reliever give up a hr)
Well he was getting his ground balls tonight but they were finding those holes.
Brad, I agree completely. Moose pitched an amazing September.
they were right to try wang on short rest, moose can be a liability, who would have thought two bad start my wang in a row?
Why is this thread full of SF’s? Was there this many YF in the Sox threads?
Good god – I have memories of 03
In the seventh game of the ALCS Moose came in and saved the Yankees, rescuing Roger Clemens. Is this what you are remembering?
there’s so many SFs because the sox clinched the ALCS yesterday and I love baseball… not trying to knock the yanks, I promise
Sorry Lar but all us Sox fans have a stake in this game tonight
Moose gets the DP.
Moose gets the big DP. Hard to argue with the result of that one.
Huge DP for the Yanks there. HUGE.
best case scenario for you guys
How great would it be for Moose if he pitched a Gem from here on out? Sweet redemption.
Best one run we’ve ever given up – the dp changes the tone.
Man, this has to be a historic level of suckitude. When has a 19-game winner ever not gotten out of the 3rd inning in his first two postseason starts?
more moose calls
Byrd hasn’t won this game yet..
But Moose still needs to get this guy out.
moose not looking especially sharp either, but certainly an improvement from wang
Who plays Aaron Boone this time around? Without Moose in the Game #7 the Yankees don’t win. If I remember correctly he gave up a run, but kept it limited.
Lar – I just like baseball. If I weren’t listening to this game, I’d have to go to the Little League park and see if there’s a fall ball game.
Another 2 out hit. Jees.
These guys are sick with these two out hits.
did I just hear applause in the announcer’s booth? wtf
Nothing we can do on that blooper – reached out to hit it.
This game is frustrating enough without the SF’s helping.. that’s all.. =P
4-0.
Yes you did Ed.
I thought I hated Joe Morgan and Tim McCarver…these guys are unreal, I can’t take much more.
what was that all about with the applause? That’s Joe Morgan like subjectivity
Moose isn’t much better. I still like Wang..
these announcers are indeed crap Trisk
SF’s there is a killer episode of How I Met Your Mother on CBS, you guys should give it a look… JK.
Really Lar?
I’m feeling my dinner slowly move it’s way up the throat….
TBS annoucners have been all crap.. cept for the Rockies-Phillies series with Orsillo.
oh come on Trisk, game is far from done
The Juggs gun operator can go get a hot dog and beer with Moose and Byrd pitching.
Well its not going to get much better in the ALCS when it moves to Fox. Oh how I loathe McCarver and Buck. Hopefully Buck is doing football instead.
Yanks get out of the inning.
Inning over.
Moose gets out of it, now the Yanks down 4-0. Moose with 16 pitches.
Up next, Matsui, Cano, Melky.
I still give advantage to the Yanks in this game. Indians need to score more runs before I feel comfortable about their chances.
Dane Cook needs to die, I thought these things were going to end after the first round.
any umps out there? trisk? what’s rule on the shoppach call, exactly: if the ball hits thumb and bat as he’s retracting, is it strike or hbp? strike, right?
Kevin SF – Sadly Joe Buck will continue to make everyone wish they could get away with murder.
I remember when I watched the ALCS with the Sox-Yankees and all of us (mixed fan base watching) wanted to mute the TV. Universally hated the Fox crew.
We tried to rig up a radio in our lounge so we could at least listen to a broadcast – but got stuck with Fox.
Can I be excused for wanting to kill Dane Cook? I can’t stand him or Frank TV.
Matsui’s been slumping, but let’s go..
Guess Wang isn’t the savior. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. Make sense that we’ll need to slug our way back to Cleveland.
Some how McCarver and Buck find away to be biased against both teams at the same time, I just don’t get how they do it.
Wow, catcher’s interference. Yankees not catching any breaks tonight.
The swing takes precedent over everything else. So is Shoppach swung and got hit then it’s a foul ball.
The catcher got away with one there..
Sweet – 2 calls against the Yanks. Bugs – Check; Bad calls – Check; Totally crappy announcing crew – Check
Just got back from an errand – were people really clapping in the press box? All I have is GameDay right now; is there more context to that? If it was the announcers applauding, that would be a fire-able offense if I were in charge.
some weird ass stuff going on right now
This game.. is interesting.
Lots of work for the Umps.
it really did sound like clapping, no joke
To be fair, on that one, the ump didn’t have to call the time out..
Uh oh.. Matsui works the count to 3-2. I have a bad feeling..
Matsui gets the walk anyhow.
It was the press box FSP, not the announcers. Still not right.
Leadoff walk. FRAK!
I missed who said that, but that’s just too much.
Byrd gets the strike called at the knees. Grrrrr
It was the press box FSP, not the announcers. Still not right.
Is Byrd losing it? I surely hope so.
Please announcers keep saying he doesn’t walk people (seems to be working to our advantage)
Byrd has lost the zone.
Sorry for doubler.
Come on Robbie please!!!
did the announcers really just compare Paul Byrd to Smoltz?
Cano singles. Again we have two men on. Now we have to start the chipping, one at a time.
Would CC be available in relief tonight or is he definitely getting the start for game 5? They could just pitch Carmona for game 5.
I predict the Yankees tying the score in this innign, at least.
Shit, shit shit.
time to call the bullpen wedge
I know Byrd hasn’t given up any runs yet, but I think it would be wise to have Sabathia warming up, secretly, in an underground bullpen.
Kevin – seems wedge is pretty set on CC for Game 5 (I think he’s wearing a jacket in the dugout)
Kevin – I can see that, but that’s really panic mode..
You cant mess with this lineup Byrd. They have good eyes.
Fantastic!
Melky helps Byrd out there with the pop up.
Melky with the infield fly..
Come on ball stealer!
C’mon guys! These Indians need to get a little confidence knocked out of them. We are the big bad guys, remember?
Seriously, stop praising byrd! His shit is hittable, he’s not impressing me with his pitching, we just haven’t gotten to him.
Minky – time to channel Boone (HR)
noone’s praising byrd’s stuff, I promise carlos
I wont praise Byrd, carlos.. the announcers are wrong. He looks like crap. The Yankees are gonna pound him.
Ugh ugh ugh
Byrd is not himself tonight it seems, those walks are the evidence.
here come the rain…
Maybe the Byrd will get bothered by the rain and lose it.
I told you it was going to rain…It was POURING here.
And here comes the rain.
I say if there is a long rain delay… you warm up CC Sabathia during the delay.
I would kill for a Dougle Play right about now.
Alphabets battlign here.
Can games be called early because of rain or do you have to play all nine?
Wow, I was JUST outside a couple minutes ago, is it really coming down that hard?
playoff games that is
I can’t remember a playoff game being called early.
Doug maybe getting a break with that one.
Payback call there on Minky.
strike three robbed
Radar shows ONE cell of rain in the entire Metro NYC area, and it’s over the South Bronx.
Damon HR
It was pouring here FSP. My wife went food shopping so in between innings I had to bring in the groceries in the rain. It’s not a drizzle.
Yankees get the call this time. I suspect it’ll be a doozy. Byrd has no command.
See? Walked him.
Stupid, stupid.
Bad call right there, but I suppose its justice.
Bases loaded with Damon up.
Wow, 2 walks against Byrd. When’s the last time that happened?
I meant the announcers, not on here. We have sense.
bases loaded, the man for the moment. His GS in 2004 destroyed my world. The Clang of it hitting the foul pole was deafening.
Bad call right there, but I suppose its justice.
Come on Captain…
Damon retired. Fielders trying their best at being Keystone Kops.
Wow, I was hoping they drop that. It was close from dropping it too..
Here’s Captain Clutch.
HUGE popup. Still have to get Jeter though. Byrd is crap. Warm CC.
loved the damon red sox highlight, caveman seems so long ago
Being down against Byrd is like being down runs in dog years. Four is more like .8 runs for a team like the Yankees.
Captain – time to redeem yourself.
Captain – time to redeem yourself
No shit, Tek has been AWFUL for like 10 wee– er, sorry, wrong team.
Maybe a rain delay would be good right now. An excuse for Byrd to be pulled without, you know, having to pull him.
Diving play saved a double and maybe a run or two, but at least a run comes in.
Damon out.
I love how Jeter just hacks. I mean, he should take and be patient, but his aggressiveness is not reckless. He just has no fear.
Come on, we need something!
Infield hit! Thats how things get started!
Jeter knocks one in. Blake stops the ball, could have been out of the inning.
Hey guys that awesome Jimmy Fallon and Drew Barrymore movie is on HBO you guys should go watch for awhile. ;)
error?
some of that playoff magic Damon was talking about bringing to the Yankees..
Not sure if I want Abreu up here – I know he’s good I just tend to see him more of the table-setting type
OH how was that an infield hit? He clearly screwed that up. Sorry Jeter-hater in me acting up.
John – =)
in comes laffey.. what a meatball for abreu
It’s an infield hit because you can’t expect someone to make a diving play? =P
What are they cheering? is that Abreu? it’s hard to tell. Sounds like there’s an extra syllable in there.
Byrd sucks. He SUCKS. WHy woudl you EVER use him in October?
If Bobby gets on base, it’ll be another chance for ARod to redeem himself..
Byrd looks so freaking hittable… I don’t know how they aren’t pounding him into the ground.
Ideally, a rain delay would allow Wedge to bring CC in as a surprise to shut it down. How cool would that be of him to try.. Go with Carmona if it doesn’t work. I would totally do that.
If anyone is interested, Tony Romo just had a pick returned for a TD. Bills on the board first.
Mike Lowell would have made that out. And Grand Slam because of that foul ball.
Wow, that was close.
Ok can we get the fact he’s coming in and tight on us? It’s like we’re surprised we’re constantly knuckling it.
that’s twice the Yankee scorekeeper has give DJ a hit on an error. Being home has it’s advantages..
Byrd dodges a disaster there.
Whew. Considering how BIG a mess that was, 1-run is a gift.
WARM
SABATHIA
NOW
This is shaping up as a VERY long game.
If it turns into a slug-match, my money would be on New York.
Another opportunity wasted. Abreu got to do more than that..
SF I need Witten, Lee Evans and Dallas D to score 20 pts. Keep me posted!
Thanks SF
That happens at all parks, Brad.. but Im not sure it was an error.
// that’s twice the Yankee scorekeeper has give DJ a hit on an error. Being home has it’s advantages. //
Yep. I’m having an easier time understanding his Gold Glove awards.
Wow. So if a 4-run lead for Byrd is more like 0.8 runs up playing the Yankees, does that mean giving up only one run is like yielding 0.2 runs? I think my ERA calculator just exploded.
Abreu got a good pitch to hit. Surprised he could only pop up to shallow center. Oh well I guess we hope to hold them and then hit some more.
Frank TV does a STRONG Bush…
SF –
I need my Bills to lose, to keep draft-pick pace with all the other terrible teams out there. It’s going to be a long downhill battle, but I think we can do it.
Byrd with 47 pitches after 2 innings. Unforunately, only 1 run. Keep him in! But the Yanks got to break through..
Best case scenario right now: tonight gets washed out, the Commish says the game will be resumed tomorrow, and CC comes in to finish the game with a 3 run lead.
Worst case: the rain holds off, and Byrd gives up 6 runs in about 5 minutes.
//Yep. I’m having an easier time understanding his Gold Glove awards.//
Ha, are you accusing the Yankee official scorer of favoritism?
Byrd is now at 47 pitches.
And Moose with a leadoff walk. Grrr..
Peralta walks to leadoff.
FrankTV does a really strong bunch of people. It’s annoying as could be, but he is quite talented at impersonations.
This must be what purgatory will be like…
Romo intercepted again, this time at his own 49, at the 7 minute mark of Q1.
Gwynn packing on the pounds or is that the TV lying?
Lofton out with a long fly to center.
I wish Dane Cook, all three TBS announcers, Ted Turner AND Frank Caliendo would choke on a Turducken.
Lofton reverting to what he is: not good.
Gwynn looked bigger yesterday…the black suit tonight is slimming…
Go Bills, can’t stand Jerry Jones
I know a show I will never, ever watch: FrankTV. Not that there’s any chance I would have watched it anyways, but with the incessant ads there’s no way in hell I will ever watch it. Nice job, TBS advertising unit. Textbook case of how to make people NOT want to watch something: annoy them.
Gwynn has packed on more than a few lbees.
these announcers are idiots, Paul Byrd is hanging on a thread right now
I don’t think Turner owns TBS anymore I think Time Warner does.
Go now!
They just called Byrd a “crafty veteran”…
They couldn’t hate NY more in this booth.
Couldn’t agree more SF. Although props to the Bud guys for putting all those signs in the background at the stadium. Definitely making my mouth water.
ball
Moose strikes out Gutierrez.
Trisk – Turner only owns stock in Time Warner now and has no hand in the operations what so ever.
My apologies Kevin, but he can still choke for marrying Jane Fonda. There, we are back on track.
this game is so sloooooooooooooooooooow
I saw Gwynn for the first time yesterday and…YOWZA. That guy is enjoying retirement. Five or six times a day, by the looks of it.
(In my house we refer to bacon cheeseburgers as “retirement”)
how many pitches for Byrd?
Mussina showing Joe Torre how little he knows about managing a pitching staff here. This has to feel good for the Moose.
SF you are a riot!!! My wife wants to know why I am laughing!
Back to back K’s for Moose.
Big inning for Moose.
Wow, Moose strikes out Blake on a high fastball. Didn’t know Moose can still do that anymore..
47 Ed
Mooooooose!!
Hold it together. Hold it together!
btw, its time Romo came down to earth. I was getting tired of “Second Coming of Staubach” stuff. Is there ever a time when we can appreciate a player honestly without him sucking horribly or being a golden god?
Damn.. Where. Is. CC?
Moose with 38 pitches after 3. He’s throwing a lot of pitches..
C’mon ARod.
Ugh – ARod is swinging at crap.
You have a better chance of seeing CC Deville pitch tonight.
COME ON ALEX.
ARod quickly down 0-2.
ARod struck out three times against Carmona. Byrd is no Carmona. Let’s not strike out again.
MVP MVP MVP!!!!
ARod K’s
Let’s start a rally!
K-Rod. Second tonight.
A-Rod is really trying to NOT make more money in a few weeks.
When Giambi is in the lineup does he normally hit behind ARod?
Am I the only YF here???
CHRIST these announcers are biased. I hate teh Yanks, but this is even pissing me off.
Posada double, one gone.
Posada with a double. Nice. Too bad he wasn’t at bat with the bases loaded..
But we’ll take it. Let’s go Matsui!
Posada doubles.
Surely Posada’s double was the result of Byrd’s guile and craftsmanship…
Not this year. It’s usually Posada and Matsui.
That was almost a home run
I hate Byrd.
John, I’m still here. Though yaaaa…
GOOD BYE BYRDIE???
Godzilla ground-out, 2 outs, runner to 3rd.
VMart playing first base, and showing off the glove. Now two outs, Posada at third.
This is just depressing – glad I have to run an errand – so sad to see them being out pitched by PAUL BYRD!
Who does the Tribe have for middle relief? Hard to imagine Byrd getting beyond the 4th or 5th…
how can indian fans watch paul byrd without some tums
I thought Cano took that for a ride there.
SHUT UP ABOUT BYRD!
Seriously.. I cant handle this. This is horrible announcing
Cano takes it for a ride, too, but this one is caught.
That was a 9 pitch inning by Byrd.
Cano flies out pretty deep, but not deep enough. Three outs sandwiching a Posada double, and it was a relatively easy inning by Byrd. 54 pitches after 3.
I’m not even going to ask the Yankees for runs anymore. That, clearly, is too much. Instead, I’m going to ask for 4-pitch at-bats. If the Yankees can do that twice per inning, they have won for me.
I believe you are, Trisk. At least we’re not trolling though. We’re being decent.
Hey, if I had CC and Fausto on my team, they could prop up Dennis Martinez on the pitching mound and I wouldn’t complain.
These Sonic commercials drive me nuts. The food looks so freakin good, but there isn’t a Sonic anywhere near my house, why tease me?
Byrd kinda having a Kenny Rogers type outing here…
Strange how these bats do this.
7-0 Bills, 1:30 left in the first. Dull affair.
Trisk – It’s my belief that Sonic is not an actual food company, but rather a psychological experiment to advertise food but not make it available.
How’s married life Brad?
Ahhh former Red Sox phenom Kelly Shoppach’s turn to hit.
My Dad just called and said simply “four runs isn’t winning this game”.
I think he’s right. Byrd’s a lucky bastard. It can’t/shouldn’t hold.
Trisk…I hit Sonics up every week. The food is good.
FSP, Paul SF said in Texas Sonic is pretty big. Here in NJ I know of none.
Mussina overpowered Shoppach there. Geez.
3-2 now.
They did not get Wang out of the game by working the pitch count..
Moose throws strike 2…taking a page from the Paul Byrd playbook, Gwynn?
GRD for Shoppach. I didnt see that coming.
Well that isn’t nearly as much fun as my theory about Sonics. :)
Shoppach with a GRD.
Texas also has Whataburger. Another delicious fat factory.
Shoppach, whoever he is, doubles leading off. Mooooooooo..
Trisk, things are great. She’s asleep on the couch right now – hence my availability to chime in..ha. This week has been crazy with all the family that came in for the wedding.
Indeed Lar. Wang took himself out of that game.
In’n’Out. California, mostly. Very, very good.
Sonic definitely exists, and is definitely delicious. Problem is, they’re nowhere on this side of the Mississippi River, ha.
Witten just caught a pass for 8 yards, Trisk.
Sizemore looks uncomfortable.
On the mention of In-N-Out my mouth watered.
I am going to play my own TBS drinking game, anyone care to play? Everytime these announcers say Byrd, crafty, veteran or Wedge you drink.
What kind of leadoff man strikes out 155 times?
We need some bugs to attack Byrd..
I’m in Trisk – though I’m drinking the high life, so I’ll drink twice to keep up! ha.
Thanks SF!
John… do you want me to call 911 awhile or shoudl I wait?
Mussina not finishing off hitters..
Sac bunt time?
What I have learned from the commentators of this game, so far:
The Indians are the most patient team in baseball history, and occasionally, they work counts.
Moose loses Sizemore on walk after starting off 1-2.
What is amazing about the TBS crews is that EVERYONE HATES THEM. And it’s not that the criticism is all about how partisan they are (though there have been some mentions of that, though I haven’t noticed it), it’s that they don’t know what they are talking about, at all.
Walk to Sizemore. 1st and 2nd, no outs.
I really feel for you yanks, you deserve better announcers than this
The video work again? Seriously. Can we kill these guys? They are gonna make me root for the Yankees.
Ok maybe not.. but man are they bad
Need a bunt pop up triple play. That would be sweet.
Justin Bateman did a better job in Dodgeball than these guys.
Battery needs to charge, be back in 15. Remember the rules…Byrd, Crafty, Veteran and Wedge.
ESPN Ocho is a good channel.
Witten catches a 25 yard (or around that) TD. 7-7 (pending PAT).
Smartest thing Joe Torre has done in three days.
load basis for VMart?????
Sac bunt moves the runners over.
IBB to Hafner to face VMart bases loaded. Sigh.
Bunt works.
Still donbt like bunts in general. Never make outs
See.. now they IBB Hafner and the Inning Ending Double Play is set up. Bunt was a horrible idea.
That sacrifice bunt only goes to show you Byrd’s guile and craft — oh, wait.
Mussina’s PC has now passed Byrd’s.
The sound effect on that was totally unnecessary.
Sac bunt moves the runners over. Now they’re IBB’ing Hafner.
Who will they bring in? Moose isn’t look too good either, though we need a few innings from him..
Stupid Wedge. This bunt is gonna kill you.
Though Moose is up 1-2 on a lot of pitches, just not finishing them off..
Moose does not have the craftiness of..
Aaaand VMart singles in the 5th and 6th runs.
BASE HIT! Wow!
Wow, VMart with a grounder through the gap.
2 runs score.
Wow, the Indians bunted with nobody out and 2-3-4 coming up? Seems colossally dumb to me.
They get a ground ball from VMart, but between the fielders. Sigh.
I almost can’t believe this is happening. It’s like something’s not right here with NY on the brink of NOT facing Boston next week. It’s crazy.
no lead is safe with paul byrd on the mound
And now I look dumb with that comment. Why I am not a Manager 101 right there.
These are the bases loaded hits that Yanks were not getting off that crafty Byrd.
Season highlights:
Joba Chamberlain
ARod’s career year
one hit too late
ARod gets the DP to end the inning, but it’s 6-1 Tribe now.
DP, but not before the Indians tack on 2 more runs. Moose at 62 pitches, but that doesn’t even matter right now..
Wel.. there was that double play. Just a batter late.
I DID predict a DP, so I was aprtially right
Don’t forget Posada’s historic year for a 37 year old catcher!
Arod’s arm is a nice highlight. Gotta pick something.
will byrdie hold up?
Byrd is sneaky, sneaky.
Still only a 5 run lead. Agaisnt the Yanks. With BYrd who’s been crap. Most of the Game to go.
Im not feelign good yet.
Steinbrenner has backed himself into a corner…he’ll need to whack Torre if they lose tonight…if not, it’ll appear he’s no longer in charge
I’m a SF intermittently watching this game. I get the feeling that the announcers hate the Yankees….
My cup is still half full. It’s only the 4th inning. Let’s go Yanks!
Drink
Steinbrenner is the problem, not Torre, this is coming from a sox fan
Dionysus, Not feelin good yet? Why wouldnt SF’s be lookin forward to another Yanks/Sox series? I certainly was hoping for it…
Byrd, with that windup, looks like a Bird. I’m being horrible and stupid, but I stand by what I said.
That last pitch looked like a ball, but you got to respect the ump..
Melky gets a single to lead off the inning. Go Yankees!
Ok.. Byrd needs to be pull. 3 straight balls.. then after a close strike, a single.
I can’t freaking keep up.
my heart can’t take a sox-yanks series right now
That single was surely all part of Paul Byrd’s broader plan to toy with the Yankees and be a big-time clutch genius veteran righthander, etc. etc. etc.
MY GOD, STOP KISSING INDIAN REAR!!!!!!!!!!
The Yanks can’t get even those kind of hits to dump in..
I think I’ll sit out that drinking game, though I’ll probably need to drink after this..
Byrd is “making him look like a genius early”?
Apparently the bar for genius has been lowered considerably since the days of Einstein and Freud.
Lewis is now warming up in the bullpen. C’mon Yanks!
Is it at all appropriate for the announcer to wish the Indians manager “good luck” mid-game?
The Yanks not doing much with the leadoff single. I want Melky to be running and make things happen. They seem placid right now..
I hope the FJM guys are watching. This is Eckstein-like treatment of Byrd here.
2 hours, 4th innning.
Jeter lines out to Blake. Bah.
Yankees again strand an early runner.
“Yankees trying to figure out a way to put runs on the board,” TBS informs us. You know, as opposed to all other teams in all other games.
dknyc: Stein won’t can him; he just won’t re-sign him.
As far as the anti-Yank bias by Chip Carey, no comment.
Good contatc by Jeter, however Byrd use his Guiley craftiness to place the fielder right in the correct spot.
“Sonic definitely exists, and is definitely delicious. Problem is, they’re nowhere on this side of the Mississippi River, ha,.”
They are all over the place here, and I am east of the Mississippi. It’s right down the road a few miles! Never ate at Sonic, though. Anyone ever eat at a Krystals? Now that is some vile crap. But then I hate all fast food…
I know that Steinbrenner said Torre was fired if they lost the series, but Torre’s contract is up and technically not under contract. How is that fired? Or is that just George?
Krystals!
Skillet Scab emporium.
Lofton.. WHY woudl you swing at a first pitch, you moron?
Moose gets Lofton to fly out on one pitch. Definitely needs more of that..
I think what he said is that he wouldn’t be brought back. “Fired” wasn’t part of the press release.
“Paul Byrd has been dazzling”
r we watching the same game here?
“the Chrysler Building in downtown Manhattan”? What?? Since when is 42nd Street downtown?
Worthless play-by-play/color commentary asaide, is there anyone else out there with HD at home that thinks the TBS HD single looks like crap compared to other mlb hd signals?
“Yankees fans are stunned. Paul Byrd has been dazzling.”
8 baserunners in 4 innings: Dazzling.
“This is Eckstein-like treatment of Byrd here”
Lol, good analogy. These announcers don’t want to let reality get in the way of the script.
I really wonder why the Yanks don’t run more with the faster runners. C’mon, you’re down 6-1. Get some fire started. Do something, anything!
you’re right “fired” was never used
Josh BECKETT was dazzling. Schilling was shiny.
Byrd is NOT dazzling.
I guess midtown is downtown when you’re in the Bronx?
Other possibility: The announcers are dumb.
Ed.. agreed.. he just said that the Yankees have had a baserunner in every inning, yet he’s dazzling. I don’t think _he’s_ watching the same game he’s watching.
Perfect game, Don Larsen. Ya, okay.
I’m too busy being stunned as a Yankee fan to realize Mussina’s Byrd-like craftiness.
Moose with a good inning, much needed.
The Yanks have 15 outs to score a bunch of runs. They could do it.
A 1-2-3 inning.
Understand now. I think I saw the way it was labeled on certain web pages.
“I don’t think that word means what he thinks it means.”
haven’t they heard? Kenny Lofton’s on the Indians, and playing in the ALDS!
Inconceivable!
My point was that he set himself up to have to follow through on his threat…my issue is that I dont see an attractive alternative. I cant imagine the veterans wanting to play for Showalter-esque Girardi and Mattingly has never managed on any level. Bobby V would be interesting because of his in-game knowledge, but he’s so damn combative…LaRussa a similar story.
Byrd: 4 ip, 6 hits, 2 bb.
His awesomeness defies description.
DHL caps on Kenny Lofton. Weird advertisement.
Okay, I said I wouldn’t comment on Carey, but I will say this. He is an announcer in _love_ with the sound of his own voice.
Bills now up 16-9 on an INT/TD – ball knocked up in the air by a DL, caught by said DL who scampers three yards into the end zone. Romo not doing fantasy owners much tonight with two pick-sixes.
Let’s see if A-Rod can somehow go down on 0.5 pitches.
15 outs is A LOT of outs… shut up, god these guys suck
I get the impression that it’s a corner Stein doesn’t mind painting himself into. I think he wants Torre gone anyway.
Sorry, 17-7.
Abreu not doing much with ath pitch. 1 out. Let’s go ARod!
Watching on the scoreboard in the Jake? How? Why?
Why woudl there be fans in the Cleveland stadium? There’s no GAME!
Is soemthign special goign on? Jumbotron viewing of the game? Or are the annoucners jsut spectacularly stupid?
Bills are up?
This is the same Yanks teams that smacked Dice and Schill around? They also kept thier pimp hand strong with Beckett.
Gets a single. Nice.
Bills up, yes.
when did Arod start to hit like Jeter?
Romo is having a bad game…
Posada lines to the 2B. ARod stays at first.
Where’s the 9 feet graphics?
that would be bad luck
Matsui pops out, and again the Yanks are not hitting.
When he grimaces, Paul Byrd looks like a young Foster Brooks.
That was what — 5 pitches for Byrd? This is disgusting.
Wow. Two first pitch outs.
Pick # 4 for Romo!!!
Byrd and Moose both at 74 pitches.
Five pitch inning by Byrd? Talk about inconceivable!
I still like the work the count against Byrd better than swing at early pitches. They were working walks against him, just not getting the big hits..
Dallas may get its first T.O. media explosion this week.
I agree Lar. That first pitch swinging did nothing for them and keeps his “craftiness” in the game longer.
Veras up and warming.
Was Kennedy on the Yanks roster?
Rob – ya, it’s not like the Yanks are striking out against Byrd all that much, so even down two strikes they aren’t so bad. Just that they’re not getting it done..
Yanks look like they always look this past few years in the post-season–anemic.
Im Back.
I have to admit I changed the channel for a minute and saw Kelsay’s awesome play for a TD for the Bills.
New word for the drinking game, Asdrubal.
He was out.
Clearly out..
BLOWN call. Whatever.
GREAT play by Doug. aaaand.. he was out by a step. Blown call, big time.
Bad call, Sizemore should be out.
Awful call.
Does this prove just how pathetic the NFC has become, that a Super Bowl favorite can look this bad against a bottom tier AFC club? (See also: Seattle at Pitt; the Steelers are a good team, but 21-0 is just sad)
Oh, there’s a baseball game tonight, too. Too painful to watch; I actually miss Scooter the talking baseball right now. And Byrd is pretty gruesome, too.
Working on a paper, else I’d be more then a ghost tonight…
bad call… umps have been off tonight
Not getting the calls, though it doesnt account for the 5 runs differential, I’m still frustrated.
Finally Tony Gwynn says what has happened with the calls tonight. Meanwhile that F-ing idiot continues his weird crusade against the Yankees.
What are the words so far? I’ll play!
What am I missing here?
Pettitte was called a ‘warrior’ among other superlatives to describe giving up 9 baserunners in 6 innings, throwing 63% strikes.
Byrd is being described as a mutt for putting 9 baserunners in 5, throwing 67% strikes.
Pettitte was ‘crafty’ enough to give up no runs. Byrd has been the same, giving up one.
You guys ever wonder why most people despise Yankee fans?
Hop to it, NY. Play your part as a good soldier for the East. Waste CC for the us.
He wasn’t “out by a step,” but he was out.
Was Kennedy on the Yanks roster?
No, he was shut down with back pain, I believe.
Casey or whatever he goes by…
Byrd, Crafty, Veteran, Wedge and now Asdrubal.
“A little Vitamin D from the Melkman”… as he proceeds to catch a routine flyball???
Moose leaves. Better than I expected from him, but the Yanks got to hit..
OK, gotta hit the hay everyone. Keep it civil in here, please! So far so good…
I am also open to any suggestions since this game is not getting any more pleasant to watch.
Six word anyone?
Villone in?
Vitamin-D from the Melk-Man. That’s about the most flare the commentators have offered the Yankees. And now the mop-up crew comes in for the Yanks. At least, after all this, the Yanks’ postseason record isn’t any worse than it was last year.
“…BLOWN call….”
is it just me, or do we seem to be saying that a lot more lately?…
re football: the bills must’ve sifted through the dumpster outside of goodell’s office for bits of cowboy film from belicheater’s private library…
the bills kicked a field goal, it defelected, was then caught for a touch down!?!?!?!
The Yankees offense so far in this game reminds me of the way the Sox offense looked for a few months.
thanks for the lead line guys, so very worthless
What was the crowd chanting right there? I couldnty make it out
of course the red sox care about this game, they play one of these guys… the sox never want to play the yankees, regardless of who’s on the mound, sox and yankee series are always out of control
PARBY: I’ve got no problem with the fact that Cleveland has frankly outplayed the Yankees most of the this series, but Chip Carey, as an announcer, is painful. Every phrase has to drip with overwrought drama, over insinuated gravity. Whether there is bias or not doesn’t matter, so I’ll leave that part out. The fact is, he SUCKS, on every level. The one thing he has going for him, which is a nice timbre, he abuses. I’d rather frankly much rather listen to Remy and Orsillo call this game. And unlike general baseball knowledge, in this case, trust me that I know a little bit about what I speak.
Drink Trisk
12 outs left.
I think everyone agrees this announcing crew sucks, gerbil. I think I’d rahter Joe freakin Morgan right now
They just showed the guy who played Arli$$ in the bleachers. We are screwed.
Was taht to be, Rob? The were chantign “Drink Trisk”? *is confused*
Robert Wuhl? TBS really brings out the stars!
Three and a half innings left to go and I’m heading down to Professor Thom’s. I hope the back pages are interesting tomorrow. Good night everybody!
I am starting to have trouble also. Too many Jameson and Cokes.
Im amazed Byrd is still out there. Hasnt he thrown a bazillion pitches?
No they were chanting PAUL O’NEILL why I don’t know…
Robbie!!!
6-2 on a Cano HR. Effing finally, though it’s with bases empty.
Cano homers, pull Byrd.
Whoa, He freaking Golfed that. That was one hell of a swing!
Thank god. Maybe now they will SHUT UP about Byrd.
Wedge get that Pen of yours in this game,
Robi with a pull to right for a dinger.
That looks like that will be it for Byrd.
6-2 on the Cano solo shot.
“Magnificent” Paul Byrd coming out.
Byrd threw 77 pitches.
Robbie Cano, forestalling the inevitable. Clearly veteran Eric Wedge doesn’t understand Byrd’s even more veteran genius.
about time they pulled byrd… though he was “magnificient”.. ???
Finish your beer on Grand Slam.
I was not refering to the announcers, but to the commenters on this blog. Either Byrd is doing a pretty damn good job or the Yanks are in a funk even Wakefield could expose.
(Jameson & Coca-Cola is a most excellent drink, Rob.)
Dionysus – he threw something like 47 the first two innings, and then the Yanks suddenly switched strategy and started swinging earlier in the count, and had a few innings of like, 5 pitches or something stupid.
Caray: “Paul Byrd was magnificent”
Gerbil said it all…
Okay, I’m drinking once for every “dazzling”, twice for every “magnificent”, and three times for every “brilliant”. Any other overblown adjective will be subject to an on the field call.
If the indians hold them here I like their odds
I heard some new Bon Jovi song on the radio the other day, and had to change the station after about 25 seconds, it was so painfully bad.
Jon Bon Jovi…does he own the Indians, or something…?
I will follow your lead AG! Can we have a complete list..
If they say “genius” again, gerbs, you have to do a beer funnel.
Perez now in. Let’s kick this guy’s ass.
Ed – if the Indians don’t give up 4 runs in the next 4 innings, I like their odds.
PARBY: The Yanks are definitely struggling with the bats tonight. They should have undressed Byrd several times tonight, but it just didn’t happen.
The new Skippy makes a magnificent play!
Yanks are waking up. This is gonna go south, fast.
That ballboy just made the best grab of the night there…
Melky with the ground out to third base.
The strange part is that TBS ought to be absolutely *panting* for the Yanx to win this one, so they can sell ads for a high-ratings Game 5.
Hudson! Good call. Genius means three drinks as well, and if they combines two superlatives in once sentence, finish your drink.
Crap he just said “perfect” throw. Drinking.
Duncan batting for Minky.
Imagine if this was CC instead of Perez
I was diggin Bon Jovi’s shirt, though… ha
Sell Ads? So far all I have seen are Captain Morgan, Frank TV and Sonic…I think those 3 will be tapped after this game.
C’mon Duncan. Take zero in the way of junk.
Maybe they are trying to jinx the Indians, Hudson.
Fore arm shivers for everyone!!! Nice job Shelley.
Here comes New York. SH*T.
“Line DRRIIIIIIIVE… base hit.”
Spoken, on a weak single, as if he’d just hit a grand slam to tie the game.
Hudson – I was talking about that with my friend the other day. The breakeven point is usually 4 games in a series, I think I read a long time ago (I could be wrong). But whatever it is, it isn’t 3 games, so you have to kind of feel bad for them that there were three sweeps this playoff..
But then again, if I had to listen to them that much more, I would’ve killed myself or something..
PATIENCE PLEASE, TAKE SOME PITCHES
Upper deck, Johnny. Or, at least maybe a walk. Or maybe a wild pitch and two throwing errors that’ll score Duncan.
And here they come…..
the announcers are already changing sides here, so hillarious
“GROUND BAAAAAL, base hit!”
Again belted out like the game was just tied up.
Come on DJ PLEASE!!!
Damon singles, Shelly to third. Who knew, after Byrd came out. If they weren’t trying to hold Duncan (really?) on first, it might’ve been a DP. And here’s Captain Clutch.
Bye Indians. I knew you’d frak this up.
Damon hits under the glove of the 1B. Why was he holding the runner at first?
Jeter at the plate. We need a big hit. I need to see a fly ball here. We need a run here. No groundballs. Something in the outfield. Have to keep chipping away.
Let’s roll.
TBS really trying to whip up the drama here.
Drink, Gerbil. Drink, drink, drink. The man’s mouth is completely out of control.
Man.. they need to pull Perez now.
Perez looks pretty intimidated out there.
PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE
Gwynn is catching Carey’s stupidity: “if there has ever been an offense that can overcome a five run deficit” (we’re in the sixth inning mind you, and the starter is already out) “it’s this one.” Gah.
This really should’ve started at 5 so it’ll end by 10..
That was a “just get it over” pitch.
Finally a strike; cologne-wearing batter taking all the way.
Spear right to the heart of NY.
Vomit.
Double Play!
Captain Clutch seems like Captain Double Play this series. Could’ve done anything (other than that) and at least chip away at the lead.. bah. Bah.
Tom.. give me a second to put on my other hollow leg.
Carey shrieks, “WHATTA PITCH BY PEREZ” as Jeter grounds into a routine DP.
Well, that was fun for about five minutes. Okay, so which prospects are looking good for 2008? And have the Bills blown tonight’s game yet?
Captain intangibles GIDPs.
Giant whooshing sound of air escaping from the crowd’s collective balloon.
no trolling guys, just genuine amazement
The best Capt Morgan commercial so far.
God I love Dane Cook.
Farnsworth in.
farnsworth?!?!?!
FARNSWORTH???
Carey: “Webb… master of the sinkerball.” Drink for the word master.
Farnsworth in. Torre does not want a job next year.
well they’re down now so he’ll likely be lights out
Well there is a bright side to everything guys, this could be the last time we EVER have to see this stiff in pinstripes.
is this farnsworth’s last year?
Farns couldn’t get the outside corner there, but decent pitch on the 0-2.
Quick Cleveland Indians history lesson from Jim Carey. Awesome.
If Yankee fans have anything to say about it is Ed.
Okay, that was weird. At least the commentators are extending their Indians bias past the Yankees, and onto Boston. Is that a form of fairness?
John.. I liked when he explained they had to beat the Yankees, and then Boston, and then win the world series to….. win the world series.
typical farnsworth, lights out in a non hold or save situation
The Indians manager looks like he’s auditioning for the part of Hungover, Wicked Uncle Ernie in a remake of The Who’s “Tommy.”
Farnsworth in pinstripes again next year.
Finish your beer, Brenly said “Hump”
Gotch ya Trisk… maybe the mets will take him
Peralta singles to right on a belt high pitch at the inside part of the plate. Here’s Kenny.
Kenny Lofton is the most calculating hitter in the game today.
Wedge definitely looks like a hobo
AG, just to clarify the Yankees not only have to score 5 runs to advance, if they do they would then have to win on Wednesday and then go on to beat Boston to go to the WS. I know it gets confusing…LOL.
Crap. Good thing mine was almost empty.
man, LoHud is downright hilarious tonight.
I just have this feeling that this may soon be an 8-2 ballgame…
Lofton not much of a power guy…
Yeah, John, I was backed into a corner working that one out. Thank goodness Chip has got my back.
Ah, Tony Gwynn talking basketball in his best Urkel voice.
Chip Caray… nice hair douche bag
3-2 to Lofton.
The only “Rack” Gwynn can take it to these days resides in an Outback Steakhouse…
This at-bat with Lofton has lasted 35 minutes.
“Wonder what he’s thinking”… obviously about what Chip Caray is talking about right now
Chip Carey has the gall to ask the question, speaking of Joe Torre, “Wonder what he is thinking?”
I’m guessing it’s about the fact that Kenny Lofton is at the plate, with Farnsworth pitching and a runner on first. You know, baseball, Chip.
Drink, Jim Carey said “Outstanding”
“Paul Byrd… outstanding.”
“Paul Byrd, Outstanding.”
10 baserunners in 5 innings… Outstanding.
I wonder what Posada said to Farnsworth
My bet is “Purple Monkey Dishwasher”
No, I don’t know how to spell Caray.
I wish my TV had SAP…
I think the Tigers kind of lost the division on their own…
Damn it! drinking.
Seriously.. these are the worst announcers in the history of time.
Farnsworth is so money… without the lead
I hope that kid drops the helmet full of ice cream right on his dad’s lap. How could you be the GM of the Indians and let your kid eat out of a Yankee Helmet?
I know so much about the Indians now — wait, don’t tell me: on July 19th, 2003, at 11:36 am, Travis Hafner bought a hat.
Please no Ronan
God I love this part…It never gets old.
Farnsworth gets Gutierrez, how about that.
Gotta get as far as possible from the TV for Gobbless Murrika as sung by the guy with the giant teacup ears.
what exactly is this guy a doctor of?
It’s not over until the fat.. wait.. what?
I love this guy though..
This “God Bless America” thing, during the Yankees playoffs, has had such a feeling of dread to it over the past few years.
YFinMA: Little known fact.. it was Cleveland, who under stealth played Detroit 17 times in the last 19 games.
“On the cusp of upsetting the Yankees”, though it’s the top of seven.
Cusp refers to a specific point or on the verge of changing states. That’s worth a drink.
Shelly Duncan, not a looker
Torre thinking: “Well, at least I may never have to listen to this cornball crooner again.”
Shelley Duncan…appearing to know the words.
That ol’ Ronan feller looks like some some of them boys I saw up in the hills of Arkansaw a while back. They was scary…
Just in case you can’t get enough Ronan
http://www.ronantynan.net/
they should let Ronan take an at bat, he looks like a natural DH
The “doctor” part must be an honorary degree… Piled Higher and Deeper.
Dane Cook looks like he’s about to crack up, like “These commercials are ridiculous, i’m getting paid for this?”
Perez still on.. probably only for Abreu.
From Ronan’s web page:
He later became a full-fledged medical doctor, specializing in orthopedic sports injuries, with a degree from prestigious Trinity College.
Gerbil — ah yes, those Indian owners really had it all figured out. Not only did they stock their team with youth, they also traded away players with undying Indian loyalty, in-turn stocking other teams with undercover Indians. Man, the genius of…whoever their GM is.
wow, you serious Rob?
Abreu down.
Has Bobby Abreu ever driven in a run in the postseason — ever?
Yes, pulled it down from his web page.
Guy’s Ronan is a full fledged medical physician. I have the Irish Tenor CD for some reason, and they mention it on it.
WHy is Perez on to face A-Rod?
here comes the MVP
These commentators have the A-Rod controversy checklist covered tonight — they have really read the New York Post over the last month.
He also has two aputated legs.
Erkel defends ARod.
Tynan is an M.D., .. and an accomplished tenor .. and a double amputee. It’s a tough road to make a joke at his expense.
Now I feel bad…
Born with lower limb disabilities, Tynan elected to have both legs amputated at the age of 20 due to complications caused by a car accident. Within weeks of the accident, he was climbing stairs at his college dormitory on artificial legs. Within a year, Tynan was winning in the international Paralympics. Between 1981 and 1984, he amassed eighteen gold medals and fourteen world records.
In the following years, Tynan became the first person with a disability ever to be admitted to the National College of Physical Education, Limerick. He went on to prestigious Trinity College, Dublin and became a physician specializing in Orthopedic Sports Injuries.
Caray shows he’s done his homework on Borowski
What did that last comment about Borowski have to do with anything at all, exactly?
4 run game.. they probably will use Borowski. So the Yanks have a pretty good chance to win, even IF they are still down by 4 in the 9th
So, what’s the over under on the opt-out now? I say no freaking way he goes now..unless of course he wants to just make less money in LAA or Chicago.
Wow, ARod hit a homer.
ARod obviously doesn’t understand clutch, hitting his homer with nobody on.
ARod hits it out of the park at last. With no one on, natch.
6-3.
SH*T!!
Seriously.. Why still Perez?
Are the Indians now off the cusp?
They were NEVER on the Cusp, Hudson
Tom, don’t feel bad. I personally got tired of hearing God Bless America in the stretch a long time ago, though I have to admit it is a heck of a lot better listening to someone sing it live than listening to a tape like usually happens.
wow, Arod hits a homer
Do the Yanks bring in Rivera next inning?
Dion, don’t sweat it. I’m actually sort of hoping the Yankees come back, only to have their hopes dashed in Cleveland, thus screwing with the Indian rotation/pen.
3-1 on Matsui.
Why isnt there a new pitcher?
This game is still SOOOOOOO far from over. Not to mention that Borowski is coming due soon.
STUPID PEREZ!!!
Indians are gonna lost.. FRAK
Hudson, why not wish for a Sox-Yanks series?
Even if the Yankees win, it won’t be because of them. One run on 8 hits in 5 innings against Paul Byrd? Disgraceful.
C’mon Cano. You’re gonna get paid a ton in arbitration this off-season.
Sox-Yanks games are too stressful. I cant handle one of those.
Perez has NO command. I think wedge has left him in two batters too long.
Perez pitching scared now.
I hate to be so bitter, but you can really hear the desperation in the crowd. At least they care and have hope.
Whew. Three is NOT comfortable at all..
God.. I hope NO ONE watches FrankTV.
Indians need to score a few here.. will Torre use Joba for the third game ina row?
Nope. Veras.
Yay for A-Rod – again glad the monkey is off his back (least he won’t get *hit in the press tomorrow). Wish he could’ve done more, but heck it was Abreu’s job to get on base so it could’ve been a 2-run shot.
6 more outs…uggh.
I would put any amount of dirty play pass the press, Rob. If Yankees lose, I expect A-Rod to still get hit.
Man, that was some pitchign right ther eby Veras
God, do I want to beat these Indians to get to the Sox.
Caray said “Asdrubal” DRINK.
quiet a large strike zone there
it has been said, Joe Buck announcing the ALCS… god have mercy
They are bringing in Rivera!
John.. drank.
Mariano Rivera comes to the mound in the eighth. Leaving it on the field.
Ed – I’ll be happy to troll around the Red Sox thread just to make fun of Buck if you’d like lol.
Buck and McCarver… *vomits*
The crowd is chanting “Joe TORRE”. I’m going to drink a toast to him.
Sooooo where’s my scotch? I have at least a bottle around here I can polish off soon. I don’t have much faith in us pulling it out here simply because the team hasn’t shown drive or life. even when we get a hit it seems more an afterthought.
I got hope, just not as much as I might like.
Drink, Asdrubal
How drunk are you guys at this point? O.o
“Maybe the biggest superstar in our game that no one knows about”.. except everyone that watches baseball… and he says Asdrubal.. That’s what.. three drinks?
Dio.. I’m not as drunk as I would like to be, but I’m more drunk that I would want to be if I weren’t drinking.
Well the best news of the night I just sold my Giants tickets on StubHub for the Pats game for $600.
I still think Borowski will blow this game. He’s no Paps, no Mo, no Putz.. hell he isnt even a Bett Myers (who shouldnt be allowed to play in the MLB)
This could be the last time Rivera pitches for the Yankees. I must watch.
I am drunk enough that the Frank Caliendo commercials are getting pretty funny!
Caray: “Was that the final visit to the mound for Joe Torre in a Yankee uniform….(next sentence) in the eighth inning.” Quick recap as well, the Yankees must win to.. um… win.
Oooh, Postgame show with Allyssa Milano intervirew…
Wow. I thought that was DP for SURE
I’m just where I need to be, Dio. ha.
Well said Brenly, Mo can you please let them hit it harder.
Brenley says that Mariano breaking bats and generating weak ground balls is a bad thing.
That first pitch was one to drive.
How many times are they going to show the RISP stats?
We know already.
“The Indians are not afraid to score on a wild pitch” OOH That pitch is WAY to wild for me to want to score upon!
When I was like ten, I was two of those kiddy fan clubs: Roger Clemens and Allyssa Milano.
Funny story: I wrote her a letter detailing my love for her (ssshhh), and my Grandmother wrote me a letter back so I wouldn’t be disappointed that she didn’t return my letter. ha.
Don’t tell anybody.
Jeter: ALL OR NOTHING PLAY!
Finish your drink.
Man, that was a great play by Jeter.
Rivera just keeps lowering that ERA.
Good play by Jeter.
Wow, can Hafner be any slower? I think I saw a Pinto on his back.
Brad, that’s a great, sweet story. I love that sort of thing when ma/pa/grandma/pa step in on stuff like that.
Can Hafner be any slower?
Yes, he could be Mike Lowell.
Yeah, its kind of sweet in retrospect, but when I really look at it now, it’s like that skunk cartoon that used to be on : when you watch it now, he’s just a psycho stalker always groping that girl skunk.
“When I was like ten, I was two of those kiddy fan clubs: Roger Clemens and Allyssa Milano.
Funny story: I wrote her a letter detailing my love for her (ssshhh), and my Grandmother wrote me a letter back so I wouldn’t be disappointed that she didn’t return my letter. ha.
Don’t tell anybody.”
This is a Happy Gilmore reference, right? Or are your lives just strangely similar…?
Giambi in the game. Btenacourt pitching
Ok time for a rally with our back of the order. Come on Young Guns.
I will cry if they bring in Borowski
Was that a Gilmore reference? Dang, hooked me.
here’s mr steriods
steroids*
Pne is a weapon reference. Drink, those hwo are drinking.
“Don’t worry about me Happy, I got my hand back…”
here come the Jeter, A-Rod, Posada attacks
No, Josh. I still have the letter. Was that in that movie?
Just had a thought – remember if the Yankees don’t pull it out the Baseball Tonight guru’s will all talk about how they all knew the Indians were going to win (never mind the flirting with the “awakened Giant” of the Yankees)
Sigh.
Here we go Diamondbacks, here we go. Here we go Diamondbacks, here we go.
“No, Josh. I still have the letter. Was that in that movie?”
Haha yeah, it was. Happy’s talking to the love interest, I think at an ice hockey rink, about his Grandma and why he wants to win the tourney/save her house. She did the exact same thing, only I think it was like Cindy Crawford, or something. That’s funny.
No sure I buy into this Donnie Baseball Manager thing.
“Joba has been a wonderful addition to New York.”
Drink twice.
Did Jim Caray just say Kei Igawa was a promising young Yankee pitcher…KILL ME PLEASE!!!
Good lord did the announcers just discuss Clemens as if the Yankees were counting on him as a strong part of the rotation next year?
Good god they get paid too much money for nonsense like this.
I hear yah Rob, typical baseball pundits…
OK.. Betancourt jsut DOMINATED the Yankees.
I’m sorry.. frak closers., You let him pitch the 9th, no matter what.
Heyyyyy I won, the meat Jackpot!
The Cleveland Indians are praying for more runs with Borowski coming in… yikes
I think I switch to rooting for the Rockies? Don’t know seems whoever I root for they lose (also a proud Dolphins fan – and you can see how well THAT is working out). Course least I can care about the Draft this next year (we might be number one!)
No, mine was definitely from something like Teen Magazine that my sister had, and all you had to do was send her a letter and she would write you back with an Allyssa Milano fan club card.
Again, please don’t tell anyone! ha.
Although, that bitch never did send me my card.
I forgive her. Completely.
Seriously, when was the last time someone announced a game without storylines? Without trying to put some nice cap on every pitch, every at-bat.
Call the game, provide analysis OF THE GAME, provide inside info OF THE GAME, provide historical context OF THE GAME SITUATION.
This whole “This could be the end of….” is just annoying, pandering and ridiculous.
Brad she choose Carl Pavano over you, LOL!
“Baseball Pundit” n.
1. One who pontificates
2. One who was hit in the head with a baseball bat, sniffed enormous amounts of pine tar, and then handed a microphone.
3. Jackassery at its finest.
“It all comes down to inning number nine” unless it goes extras. Drink.
To the victor goes the spoil. Hahaha.
“To the Victor go the spoils tonight” Wowza
“To the Victor go the spoils”?
Really?
A weak ground ball up the middle is a “SHOT” to center field.
that was pretty good actually
“To the Victor go the spoils”
That’s gotta be worth 2-3 drinks.
I’d be up for a Yanx/Sox series, but it ain’t gonna happen, even if New York mounts a giant comeback here, imho.
Can someone please tell Caray Joe Borowski is from BAY-OWN, not BAY-EEWN. Bayonne you moron.
music from “Major League” is on in the background, haha
They are playign the “Major League” music over those Indians stats/pictures!
Lofton up, one more chance for him to stab NY in the heart?
Yeah, I know. And, I’ve hated Carl Pavano since long before she started dating him. He was the starter of the Connecticut Class L state baseball championships, and promptly made my team look like we had never played the game before.
Although, Matt Harvey is now coming out of my high school, so we’re even with big leaguers now. My high school and the one Pavano went to are big baseball rivals.
Hudson said “Mount” and Brenly said “Hump” that’s the whole bottle boys.
Wasn’t Chuck Wepner the “Bayonne Bleeder”?
What HS Brad?
Dammit – and this team is going to get blown-up because King George is “back in charge”.
I wouldn’t be that worried if I trusted that the new Cashman program is going to be followed. This just means it won’t.
Bring in Wild Thing Wedge
Pavano went to Southington,
I went to Fitch.
I wonder if Wedge’s wife stopped shaving also?
Gerbs, you might as well just hook up a grain alcohol I.V. drip for the bottom of the 9th.
Yes Tom, only guy to ever knock Ali down.
Lofton makes a smart play by listening to the base coach. Drink.
My CT knowledge is limited to like Rocky Hill, Chesire, Notre Dame, St. Joe’s…
We are quickly approaching the 4 hour mark.
Big K by Mo
Unless they score 2, I predict Yankees win
They’re both always good, and never face each other until the state tourney, and his years were the harderst, though I’d assume they say the same thing about Matt Harvey now. He used to attend our practices when he was a just a kid – his father was our coach in high school, and still is.
Though, with Boras inthe picture, I’d assume he’s close to retiring for good to follow Matt around the bigs!
“If our series ends tonight….” don’t worry there will still be plenty of opportunities to see promos for Frank TV!!
You ain’t kidding, Hudson.
Caray said “Grizzled” drink drank drunk…
“grizzled veteran”! Drink!
Damon just stopped 50,000 butt holes from puckering.
nice catch Judas!
Wow, Damon.
Yankees win now.. *sighs*
Damon makes a routine catch to end the Yankee ninth, but, somehow Caray makes it into Willie Fucking Mays. DRINK.
Notre Dame sucks at everything not named Hockey…as do most of the Catholic schools here, with the exception of Xavier, which has a long standing rule that every boy must participate in at least one sport, so the odds have always been in their favor for finding someone with a bit of talent.
This Doctor looks like a real life Hannibal Lector
Um, i am glad that Damon caught it, but it wasn’t that difficult of a catch. He was tracking it all the way..
still
bottom fo the ninth.
do or die, indeed.
Y’know, call me crazy, but I think announcers should reserve the THE SHOUTING AS IF YOU JUST WON THE LOTTERY AND A DATE WITH SHARAPOVA VOICE for catches which involve jumping, diving, or sliding…
AG with the F-bomb….
Now we know they’re terrible! ha.
If the Tribe wins this, who for Yank fans here are they going to pull for?
Big commentary by the hitting coach to A-Rod I’m watching I’m sure.
“hey you know that baseball – need to hit it”
“ok”
Trisk, get out a fresh twelve-pack and open all of ’em now.
A-Rod with two on for the first out?
That would suck for him!
I would laugh.
did the announcer just say “One error could end”?
ONE>>>> COULD END. ONE>>>>> COULD BE JUST BEGINNING.
Please.
Bye-on NJ LOL I can’t stop laughing…I told you he would say it
nope.
Jeter up. Crappy Joe pitching.
1-0 Oh god.
1-1 Not too bad still you suck
POP UP! ONE DOWN!
Jeter pops out..
The Captain pops up. 2 outs to play with.
Rob SF – I’d root if Wake were pitching or if they had Trot (liked both of them); you’ve lost some of the guys I respected.
I think in general I’ll just root for good baseball – I think you’ll crush the Indians to the curb like nobody’s business anyway.
Asdrubal. Drink.
Paul Byrd is the player of the night… this is why you must play and watch the games
Brenley just linked a whole slew of drool on the Yankee offense. Drink at will.
Paul Byrd has entered the rarified air of Ted Lilly tonight with this performance.
Rob — I thought most YFs hated Trot… ?
Ed – I had the feeling he was going to pull out a Lowe-like night (I thought he’d suck and the Yanks would win that 4th game); just knew something was going to go wrong and he’d pull out some amazing play beyond all friggin reason.
Don’t worry I’m sure against the Sox he’ll manage to pitch BP
Abreu.
0-1.
1-1. Outside by a helluva lot. That wont cut the mustard.
2-1. Stop doing that.
FRAAAAAAAAAAAAK.
Abreau with a HR.
ruh-roh.
Abreu with a towering homer. And I’m not referring to Carey.
God my heart…Thank you Bobby.
HOLY SHIT>
HERE THEY COME>
unbelievable… all the sweeter if they lose
Bobby is upper deck.
Late solo homeruns. Hmmmm…. We still need to get at least another runner on. Cut the “Natural Music” unless it’s tying or winning the game.
Why did you pull Betancourt? WHY?
Hudson – I actually didn’t mind him – though I think that’s partly because he was a big idol of a friend of mine who was a Sox fan – probably where I got it.
If the Yankees lose is this the last time we will see the squirrel on the right field foul pole?
Time for a pop out – you can tell he’s overswining trying to “top” Abreu
oh goodness, shut the hell up!
enough with the A-Rod stuff, guys. They’re so, so bad.
Now, please let him ground out to the first baseman so we can move on.
Still need 2..
It’ll be interesting to see if the Indians regret making him pitch last night – never understood why they brought him in last night.
0-1
0-2
Get this Out, you scumbag.
1-2.
2-2.
THIS SUCKS
Betancourt better be the closer nect year for the Indians.
GOT HIM!
ARod flies out to right.
ARod: Not Manny.
It was a fly out, but I wouldn’t call that shallow right. Not that it matters..
Can’t swing at those really outside pitches.. wtf..
A-Rod popped up to “shallow right” according to Caray…. a few steps from the warning track!
Caray “Just missed that outside corner” .. if that 1-2 had been called a strike, I would have been so pissed.
Now Alex pops up to “shallow right” 6 feet short of the track to the weak side.
DAMMIT
MY GOD
That was close. The stadium might have erupted with that one.
If only ARod got on base instead of swinging for the fence.
Posada didn’t miss it by much.. though it still doesn’t matter.
Posada: Just foul.
I’m looking forward to MannyOrtez facing Byrd/Borowski. Nojinxnojinxnojinx.
this guy blows
I think it’s time for a series of HRs
Posada gets a hold of one, but it is foul to right.
0-1.
FOUL.. baaaarely. God that was scary. 0-2.
GOT HIM!
Yankee Season Ends!
and he struck out Posada
OVAH.
Gameover. Sigh. See you guys next year.
“And an era ends in New York. Perhaps.”
Such bold predictions.
Condolences, YFs. Your team had a hell of a run.
::sound of scotch bottle being unscrewed::
Good season, Yankees. It was a fun ride. Thanks for all you guys here at YFSF making it all the more interesting. Gotta go get some dinner to eat with my lady.
Might be back later. We’ll see.
Of course we got the Indians (instead of the Angels) the one year the Angles were walking-wounded
What a shitty ending to a great second half of the season.
Indeed.. you guys ha da hell of a season and kept us nervous all year long. You have nothign to be ashamed of. YOu stuck with your team through the bad and the good. and for that, I tip my cap.
Stick around YFs, we’d miss you in the gamethreads. Seriously, I mean it.
here’s the “wizard” that is Paul Byrd
Condolences, Yanks fans. You guys played amazing to get this far, which is no easy feat. Next year you guys are going to be tough.
Anon was me
Condolences, Yanks fans. You guys played amazing to get this far, which is no easy feat. Next year you guys are going to be tough.
Beckett vs Sabathia on Friday in Fenway!
Hudson, Ed, Rob-SF I’ll try to stop by on your threads later – as of now time to drink myself to sleep.
Later all – I’ll await tomorrow to see what the damage is (I could just see George like walking down to give Torre his pink slip)
Some would say the run at the wild card coupled with the division series loss invalidates the season. I disagree. You guys made a race of it in the end and came back from the dead in one of the greater runs ever since the end of May. I must say even though I breathe a bit easier knowing the Yanks won’t see the Sox, I do feel just a bit of a pang at the idea that the Sox and Yanks won’t meet in another brutal clash.
Now it’s time to be scared of Sabathia and Carmona.
I agree, I really enjoy YFSF, it wouldn’t be the same without you guys commenting. You have nothing to be ashamed about this season, and Torre has nothing to apologize for. I fear your rotation next year.
Yeah, Hudson said it right–stick around in the game threads, YF’s. You guys make it fun :-)
Hell of a season guys, no gloating here, of every team, the Yankees were the one I didn’t want to see in the post-season. See you next year and every year there after. I hope you stick around the site.
And let me wish a fond farewell to Chip Caray… may you never again befoul my television set as long as you live.
Thanks for CC, chokers. Thanks for working the Indian starters for us. For that matter, thanks for almost making a single Indian break a sweat.
Pathetic
Have at it, George. They deserve it.
Rob, don’t drink too hard bud, it IS a weeknight. I think it’s clear the fans and the players want Torre to stay, I hope he’ll be here next year.
Good night all…see u Friday
4 runs on 12 hits. Bah.
Man, the Indians sure know how to throw around champagne
Indians, worthy f%^&$# adversary dude
Btw, thanks for the classy comments Sox fans
I feel for Torre, he really sounds like he’s saying his goodbye here
Speaking of classy, that “win tonight or lose your job” statement from Steinbrenner was anything but.
//Speaking of classy, that “win tonight or lose your job” statement from Steinbrenner was anything but.//
Agreed!! Ten times over- agreed.
Indians are on their way…
Depends if you believe $300 million should be enough to expect a better series against Cleveland then was produced.
You guys are all aware that George actually loses money on the Yanks every year, right?
I personally would gut the whole mess if I was him. It ain’t working and getting worse.
Man, this Torre press conference on YES is tough to watch…really feel for the guy
Hey BRAW: NOBODY LIKES YOU, NOT EVEN OTHER BOSTON FANS. NOBODY WANTS YOU HERE. YOU ARE A PATHETIC BANDWAGON FAN. It’s interesting you’re nowhere to be found after a Boston loss. If anyone deserved an IP ban, it’s you.
Ron Newman: Oh look, the bandwagon Sox fan decides to make an entrance during the playoffs, after the game. Where were you at YFSF during the regular season? I was about to say thanks to the SFs in this thread for being classy guys, but you just had to go ahead and be witty and clever. Please.
Anyway, thanks to the SFs for being a group of classy, intelligent baseball fans. This season has been a wild ride with crazy ups and downs and memorable moments. Thanks for all the great baseball talk.
Michael Kay just said that he still thinks the Yankees are the better team, and he’d match them up against the Indians any time.
Really, you homer?
They just played four of them.
What a cancer.
everyday, Doug.
Most appreciate the way it goes here on most days.
Go away, Braw. We don’t like/appreciate/respect/want to hear anything you have to say about anything.
These guys don’t deserve to be chided.
Steinbrenner allegedly loses money on the yankees, NOT on YES, where he makes millions
Stick around for the rest of the postseason, Doug. You can help make fun of JoeBuck and McCarver.
Its been fun talking wiht y’all
Michael Kay should be fired, not Torre
It should be a good series between Bos and Cle. Cleveland definetely has two better pitchers than the Yankees.
Good luck to you all.
Michael Kay is the dumbest human being on earth.
“laden with talent”
“they’re the best team in baseball”
“MLB has to change the rules”
“clearly better than every team on paper”
Please choke on your mic, you moron.
I think Boston beats CC, then loses to Carmona.
Then all bets are off.
why don’t they trade Jeter, Michael? You putz
I’m wondering if Cleveland will unleash the killer midges on Okajima and Papelbon next Monday….
// Kay just said that he still thinks the Yankees are the better team, and he’d match them up against the Indians any time. //
Holy cr@p, that’s like predicting “Kerry will beat Bush” … during Thanksgiving dinner, 2004.
I think it’ll be a 4-3 series, who loses the series is up in the air
Michael Kay looks like he’s going to jump off a building… maybe the change needs to come in their announcers, what an ass
The big question now for this SF is how Tito lines up the Sox rotation.
Does he go for the Beckett/Sabathia and Schilling/Carmona deathmatches to open, or push Curt to Game 3, treating Game 2 as a “bonus” win if DiceK can somehow manage one?
good night all, hopefully i’ll see you yank fans for the series against the indians
And will he drop useless Gagne from the roster?
George loses money every year on the Yankees operation, which assumably includes any Yes receipts which pertain the Yankess.
That is, unless his books are as poorly kept as his baseball team.
I would assume that by now both the Sox and Tribe have some lowly staffer tasked with finding out exactly what repellant works on midges, just in case…
Yeah, goodnight.
My buddy just called and said that Suzyn Waldman was crying on the air.
Now that’s funny and sad at the same time.
It was a fun season.
Now you YFs can start rooting for the Indians. It’s what we would do in your shoes.
I’m not sure what to do.
I believe in the team as is. I believe we have youth that will serve us well. Wang, Hughes, Kennedy and Joba. Cabrera and Cano are a good pair. If folks leave, I hope we have a young catcher in our system somewhere. There is going to be so much change; maybe not the big ones people can not stop talking about, but enough that the 2008 Yankees will be very different.
But what does this mean at the moment? The Youngins performed very well and the veterans could not get it together. The magic of Posada’s hit against Pedro could not be repeated. Abreu couldn’t set the table. Jeter can’t be perfect all the time. Rodriguez struggled, but I still want him during the season.
In the end you have a team of parts that click, but don’t exactly fit. What position does Giambi play? Shelly Duncan, Betemitt, Mient are more than enough first basemen, and thats not even Duncan’s natural position. Cabrera, Abreu, Damon and Matsui…neither of them is a “platoon player.”
There are questions and hopefully Cashman and Co have some answers. My thoughts are not too blow up the team but to change the model a bit and work on guys who get on base more than slug their way through.
It was a painful way to end; with the belief that we did not live up to our own expectations, but instead wilted in the face of a great opponent. Even if we credit the Tribe’s pitching staff, the fact remains that they succeed when they could have failed and we did not.
its going to be a hard year, but I want to make this a learning process and a way to help our young guys grow.
My condolences. If it makes you feel any better, I’m quite relieved that we don’t have to face y’all on Friday… and I’m already nervous about next year.
An exciting season, YFs. Tough break.
To the overwhelming majority of SFs on this site:
Thanks for treating our ALDS loss with dignity, its nice to be part of a community that keep the rivalry the positive thing it should be. It was nice to come back and read this thread after an insanely long night in the bronx.
That said, GO TRIBE.
To the Moron(s) who kicked us while we were down: GFY. If you think that the Yankees losing makes you a bigger person. You’ve got a series of reality checks on their way.
Also, if Michael Kay wants to play baseball “on paper” he should join a fantasy league. Im sure we could make room for him over at YFSF next season….
Indians are gonna be tough. They looked good against the Yanks. You know, if you clinch best record, you should be allowed to face the loser of the other ALDS ;-). Except no team is as good as they look when they’re winning or as bad as they look when they’re losing. So I guess no matter who won this series, I would be nervous about facing them. I just wish the Indians had looked a little more average in doing it…
“We got beat in the four games played”, Damon said. “Overall, are they the better team? I don’t know.”
Oy, Johnny.
Johnny is entitled to feel that way. The fact is the tribe got it done and beat them. They were certainly the much better team this week.
Its hard to be sent home by a team that you have beat 7 times and only lost 3 times over the course of the year. Thus this sentiment.
Yeah, but this is one of those “feel it, just don’t say it” kind of lines. Win with a little class. Don’t belittle the victor.
To all my fellow Yanks fans and the cool Sox fans out there who appreciate the game, thanks for a lot of great give-and-take this season (and to the few morons on both sides who pollute the air, go look for a life).
It was a terrific six months; now it’s time for a few golf weekends before ski season. See you in April.
SF agreed. Frustration can get the best of you I guess.
I did not intend any disrespect for YFs or Yankee players in my remarks. If that’s what came across, I apologize. But I still think your team’s owner did you no favor with his interview in the Bergen Record.
Agreed, on the tough Indians. They looked very, very good. Sabathia and Carmona is a very potent 1-2 punch for four games. And their bullpen looked excellent too. I’m not that afraid of the offense. Pronk still seems to be struggling. And the rest are station to station hitters that rely average pitching to string hits together. I think Becks and Schill can shut them down. I’m less confident in Dice and Lester.
Still, I’m calling Sox in 6 games.
So did the Sox choke the last two years, and the previous 86 years before that??? Last I checked they haven’t won anything yet…if they lose to the Tribe will that be considered a choke job??? I wonder if you would be so bold as to make comments like these outside of an anonymous message board??? There are jerkoffs on both sides of the aisle and you are definitely one of them…
What many SF’s need to understand is that these things come in cycles. The Yanks are down, but I’d give my left nut to make the post-season for 12 straight years.
The one problem they seem to have is with dominant starting pitching. They can get through a season with average pitching and a dominant offense. But we’ve seen the offense become more ordinary against better pitching and their average pitching gets exposed.
Before SF’s get too excited, the Yanks have set themselves up with excellent pitching in the minors. Worse, they seem to have the prospects and desperation to trade for Santana. Or, even if they hold onto the full set of Hughes, Joba, and Kennnedy, at least one would seem to have the stuff to emerge as dominant. Problem is, will they patiently wait the few years it will take?
As a SF, I have to say I’d be glad to see Torre go. He’s not a great manager, but then any other problem doesn’t stay calm in the storm to get them to the post-season.
Can I suggest that folks not respond to the trolls? SF’s may be feeling great, but last I checked the Sox did nothing to end the Yankee season – there’s nothing to gloat over. It’s not 2006 or 2004 or 2003. No fanbase has anything on the other. If anything, no one was gloating in 2005 and if the Sox don’t play well, their season will end too.
I deleted that antagonistic comment from a certain someone, who is banned and posting on a dynamic IP (so our banning ability is limited). Please, everyone, do you best to ignore the obvious inflammatory comments, BR is an irrelevant commenter as long as we treat the comments as such. Nobody, SF or YF alike, agrees with him.
Here’s a question for the group, did Torre make the right call in starting Wang last night? My apologies if this has already been covered
rz-yf: On Wang, while it was a bad move in hindsight, I think chances were at least 50-50 that a start by Mussina could have gone just as badly and we would have been asking the same question in reverse. No # 1 starter should ever suck completely as Wang did in both games this ALDS. Having an off-day is one thing. Having two of the worst starts of your career at the most crucial time is not excusable nor the manager’s fault in my view at least.
ugh. What a bad series for Wang, Jeter and Posada. Not much else to write. I had a bad feeling about this series from the start.
1000!
I am against making pitcher’s throw on short rest, especially in crucial games. I was a pitcher through High School and I had a mental block knowing that I did not have the rest that I needed. Of course that’s why professionals make the big bucks and I’m in IT now.
Nevertheless, I would have gone with Moose. He had pitched several great starts in September (proving that he was good enough to make adjustments late in his career). Seeing Wang struggle so much in Game 1 turned me off to him quickly.
Agreed, IH
I disagree, BRAW, I don’t think they’re done for a “very, very long time.” I think they’re done just to the start of next season. Then its tabula rasa, albeit with a very different team.
Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy will be a very good rotation next year. I’m a SF and I’m willing to admit that I would be salivating if I were a New Yorker.
for what its worth….last night A-rod was busy exchanging autgraphed bats with Katic Couric DURING THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!! I kid not. I was sitting right there at first base as he came off the field, eyed her, and instructed the team security man (not rent a cop) to do something. Next thing two bats in sani socks appeared at Ms Couric’s seat. She signed one and kept the other. Like a contract…two originals…
Really encouraging stuff to see when your team is down in crunch time.
I wonder if he’ll be signing up for 08 and beyond that quickly?
ESPN showed what was actually a fairly interesting graphic in the leadup to yesterday’s game. Before last night, teams had won something like %36 of their playoff games when their starter had been brought back on short rest. I can’t recall the time period, but the sample size was close to 100 games; smallish, but not really THAT small. And when you consider that these starters are generally aces or twos…that’s a pretty telling stat.
Still, sometimes you have to take a chance. I thought starting Wang was the right move for New York, particularly given his home splits. Mike Mussina was hardly an attractive alternative.
rz-yf: The man of many names (but no insight, no respect from regulars here, and no knowledge of baseball pre-Oct ’04) forgets the following: Boston had a rebuilding year in 2006 in which they finished 3rd to Toronto. They have come back very much stronger. NY just had a rebuilding year in which they lost in the ALDS. Everyone on this site but him feels that their piching at least will be much stronger next year. Their almost 1,000-runs-producing offense may stay the same or change hugely depending on A-Rod’s decision. If he stays, only a fool would predict they are a worse team. Which explains perfectly why that particularly-discredited-poster predicts exactly that here.
The ghosts of Carlton Fisk and Yogi Berra would be so ashamed. If they were ghosts at all that is.
“I thought starting Wang was the right move for New York, particularly given his home splits. Mike Mussina was hardly an attractive alternative.”
I can’t disagree with you, Josh, but at the same time, Moose’s starts after he was placed in the pen were fairly decent, if memory serves correct.
And Atheose, it’ll be nice to see our rotation match up better with yours next year
Exactly, Atheose. The Yanks have lost the battle but they’ve shown they’re very ready to keep fighting the war. And their GM knows they can’t go out and sign a bunch of starters. I think the one worry they have is that neither Hughes or Joba will have enough innings to give a full season in the rotation next year. So they either try to make do with them and supplement as necessary from the lesser talents (Igawa, Karstens, etc) or trade Hughes or Joba plus Melky and more for Santana.
Pete et al: The other big issue here, much more than Torre leaving in my view, is whether or not Cashman too gets the ax. If he does, then I get much less optimistic about the coming years because all the hope for the future that has been built up this year for me has been on the basis of the moves he did and didn’t make and the consolidation of his power over decision-making, which got guys like Gene Michaels taken seriously again within the orgnization. If that all gets reversed, then the future gets much more uncertain.
“And a catcher that cares about D?”
Excuse me? Stats, please.
Sorry Pete et al – anon was me.
“If he stays, only a fool would predict they are a worse team.”
…ehh. I wouldn’t predict it, but I would intimate the possibility. It’s way too early for this, though; there’s no telling what’ll happen over the winter and speculation is pointless for the moment…at least until there are some juicy trade rumors to digest.
“Moose’s starts after he was placed in the pen were fairly decent, if memory serves correct.”
Yeah, you’re right there. But Wang’s the Ace after all–well, besides AP–and Mussina the aging soft-tosser. No disrespect intended, but as much crap as Paul Byrd got last night, I really don’t think Moose’s stuff is demonstrably better, at least not anymore. Cleveland made a huge gamble and it paid off; it seems to me that Wang was less risky for NY.
Why do people worry about a guy who can’t spell N-O-W?
Pete: lol
Josh: Fair enough on predicting, but if the starting rotation is Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy/Mussina, and if A-Rod stays, then yeah, I will absolutely predict that they are going to be stronger going into the season then when they went in with the same line-up and a rotation that included Pavano and Igawa.
I think Cashman is safe for one more year. He obviously has a plan and I’m not sure Steinbrenner has complete control any ways. The “sons” will give him a chance to see how that plan works out.
Meanwhile, I’m not convinced Torre is gone. Remember, it was the same story last year. And he did do a nice job of turning the team’s season around. And if I’m Torre’s supporters, I point out that the guy they would have hired to replace him (Pinella) had his team swept in the first round after management dropped over 200 million. Plus, the only thing glaring that I think Torre did worng is not leaving Hughes out there and rushing to bring in Joba. But that didn’t hurt them. The players – as Nick points out – didn’t perform. That’s not the manager’s fault.
it’s unclear why anyone would want to ruin the friendly and civil conversation that goes on between most of the posters here. I guess some people are petty, mean-spirited, and unimaginitive. It only does a disservice to you if you engage such people because you are more interesting and have better things to do. Really, please disengage.
Here’s the thing: Reading over this thread, I am blown away by the words of some of the SF posters. They recognize that this is a great sport precisely because it can be heartbreaking at times and uplifting at other times. I will enjoy the rest of the post-season. The good thing is that I won’t experience heart palpitations and angst. Of course, that is also the bad thing as well.
And if the Yanks trade for Santana, don’t they become a team to beat?
Meanwhile, the Sox will have many questions of their own – Lowell, Schill, Manny. Even if they win it all, their management has shown little interest in keeping a winning team together. They could win another ring and all three could be gone.
My only thing with the youth-movement in the rotation is that as great as it looks on paper, A: Injuries to young starters in their first season are quite common, and B: Won’t a few of these guys have pretty severe innings limitations? It’ll be fun to watch as it develops.
“And if the Yanks trade for Santana, don’t they become a team to beat”
They’re already a team to beat. Not THE team to beat, but A team to beat, if that makes any sense. And that’d cost a few of those young’uns they love so much, so who really knows what the team would look like afterwards. As for the Sox…they’re still in this, not really interested in looking at next season, personally. :-)
I am against making pitcher’s throw on short rest
I’m working on a piece that I’ll hopefully have up in the next day or two about the worst postseason pitching disasters in history. I’m getting together a Top 10, and almost invariably if the pticher in question who laid the egg is a good pitcher, the bad start came on short rest.
How’s this for a crazy deal:
Buchholz + Crisp + Manny = 10 million for Santana?
Sox only give up one of their young pitchers and help keep the Twins in contention. Meanwhile, they get a truly dominant starter and Ellsbury becomes the CF. And they could sign Andruw to play any OF position.
They could win another ring and all three could be gone.
And if they win a ring it will be because the front office made moves over the last three years to make that happen. You can’t have it both ways, Pete. If the Sox win it all, they will have won in part because the FO adapted after the 2004 championship and made several smart decisions leading to the team as we know it. Crapping on the FO in advance for breaking up a championship team seems kind of silly.
Meant “+ 10 million” – to help cover Manny’s salary.
Uh oh, I’ve inadvertently found myself in a conversation with a troll.
Even if they win it all, their management has shown little interest in keeping a winning team together.
Which is good. Because the Sox wouldn’t be anywhere in 2007 if we had kept Pedro, Damon, Mueller, Millar, et al.
As for the Yanks’ rotation next year, I’ll reiterate what I’ve said several times: If the Yankees are starting three rookies in their rotation on April 1, I will be a happy Sox fan. The chances are very good that only one will pan out.
The Sox are just as much in on Santana as the Yankees. Buchholz, Lester and Crisp could indeed get that done, and I’d do it while re-signing Schilling: Beckett/Santana/Matsuzaka/Schilling/Wakefield (or Bowden or Masterson or Pauley, depending on spring training, health, etc.).
But like Josh said, there will be plenty of time to discuss the Sox’ offseason. It hasn’t arrived just yet…
On Torre:
I hope he is gone and that is not meant with any disrespect. I acknowledge that he was great for the Yanks these past many years and I appreciate how unmatched he is in terms of respect from everyone in the league. I think he is probably the best clubhouse manager in the game and is great with veterans and with the media. He is not a great in-game manager and neve has been. He was stronger in this regard when Zimmer was his bench coach – the last bench coach that Torre listened to rather than mentored a la Girardi, Mattingly, etc. And he is terrible with bullpen management.
But the bigger issue is that he should go because any manager or coach with the same team for 12 years has been there too long. Torre’s style (loyalty to guys who have done it before/trust the regulars) has become more of a liability as those regulars have gotten older and older. It’s a standard liability of coaches with longevity in a place where they have early success.
He is part (an invaluable part) of a team that looks back for its glory to years that are further and further back, rather than just focusing on the present and future. I think this every time I’m at the stadium and they flash great plays from ’96-’00 to try to “spur a comeback”. They did this last night ont he jumbotron with the words “Let’s Do It Again” and higlights form Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS. I thought, how many of these guys are in a position to “do it again” since the vast majority were not even here???
I loved those years and I like reliving them on Yanks Classics. I don’t like the two-tiered system the team has exhibited for 7 years now of “the guys who have done it” and “the guys who haven’t proved themselves yet”. This has only started to get broken down with the emergence of clutch performers (note Melky, Cano, Hughes, and Chamberlain this year) that Torre ended up going to only when he had no other choices left.
I love Torre. And I think he should go.
Andruw Jones sucks. That is all. Absurdly overrated defender and I don’t think AL pitchers would have much trouble with him. I don’t want him, and definitely not on the multi-year deal he’s looking for. Think he and JD Drew will make a quality OF in a few years? I don’t.
ugh, jesus.
Here we go again.
Pete the Red Sox are in the ALCS, had the best record in baseball, two candidates for ROY, the probably Cy Young, and two awesome run producers and threats in the middle of the lineup…when are you considering them a success story? What do they have to do to earn some respect? The Yanks have gotten more praise from you in the last two hours, and they’ve been eliminated from discussion. The Red Sox are every bit as tooled with young stars as the Yanks, so lets give some credit where it’s due.
SF –
I know and you’re right. Still, we have to get through the next two weeks. And Becks still has to keep performing at his career ceiling. And I better never see Gag in pivotal spot.
I will say I’ve thought a lot about trading Buck for Santana and the big difference there is that it would be pitching for pitching whereas Becks for Hanley was imbalanced based on their positions.
Where to give the FO props? In their payroll flexibility. Problem is they’d be much more flexible had they never signed Drew and Lugo.
I agree one thousand percent, Paul. Not one of them, outside of a Joba closer which won’t happen, is a lock, especially in the first full year.
Sorry – posted the Torre comment on the wrong thread…
Problem is they’d be much more flexible had they never signed Drew and Lugo.
How can you possibly know this?! Did the Varitek deal (a big deal at the time) prevent them from going after Daisuke, Drew, Lugo? Did the Renteria deal prevent them from going after Beckett and extending him? What contracts have hindered the Sox from going after players the past few years? I see no evidence that any contract has hindered the Sox and created inflexibility. There’s just no evidence of this, anywhere.
If the Sox have a personnel issue, they will deal with it through off-loading a player with subsidy or a straight trade. And even if you want to make assumptions about the finances of the club, then one has to admit that they have a TON of flexibility due to the vast number of young players making close to the minimum.
Brad –
Sorry, Becks doesn’t and shouldn’t win the CY. Sabathia had the better year – more innings and better numbers.
Pedroia is a legit ROY. And the front office deserves props for believing in him. But they had no idea what they were getting with Okajima.
And Brad, I predicted the Sox in the World Series and just about winning it (after predicting their sweep). I don’t know how much more positive I can get.
SF –
Another fair point. I think they realized exactly that – the free agency pickings weren’t going to get much better in the future so they might as well spend now. Still, I know I’d rather Andruw than Drew. And Rentaria than Lugo.
And I do admit the flexibility – they’ve done a marvelous job there.
Pete if it were up to you, we wouldn’t be having this Beckett conversation ever, because the Red Sox would still have Hanley, and be out of the playoffs altogether. But, whatever. Hate all you want, he’s every bit as good as CC (he was on the DL this year), and has just as good a chance to garnish the award.
I’m done. We both know where we stand, so there’s no sense in arguing about it.
But they had no idea what they were getting with Okajima.
And this is a strike against them, how? Did they not scout Okajima and sign him? Would they have signed him if they had not expected him to succeed? Did he not then succeed? It’s statements like that that make people doubt that you are what you say you are, Pete. No, you don’t have to prove anything, but you exhibit what appears to be a pathological hatred for the Red Sox’ FO to the point that you look for ways to discredit their most notable successes.
I agree I’d rather have Renteria, but no, I’d take Drew over Jones. I agree with Josh that Jones is absurdly overrated — moreso as a defender, but other than his one 50-homer season, he’s shown me very little to be excited about. Consider his struggles this season, then consider him trying to adjust to AL pitchers next season. Pass.
Brad –
I assume you just want to have a disagreement today?
I’m not convinced they would be out of the post-season. If they made Hanley an untouchable, they could have found another way with a player of dynastic propostions. Who knows of course? My only point has always been the Sox “lost” that trade because Becks’ performance wasn’t where it needed to be, not even this year. But I’ve also said if he continues to pitch better in the post-season then I’ll promptly STFU no matter what happens in subsequent seasons. If not, then he’s fair game in my book with the knowledge that a 140 ERA+ is a stepping stone and not an end goal.
I agree on Jones as well, though he would supply an awesome treat defensively. I always wanted him, but his struggles this year makes me rethink that.
Also, I’m more than fine with Drew and Lugo. They were both part of a team that is getting ready to play in the ALCS and had the best record in baseball… how freaking much more do we want? An all-star at every single position? No thanks, I’ll take a role player or two. Jeez.
No, Pete. I don’t want an argument. You continue to shit on Beckett, the front office, and everything Red Sox, and it’s just old is all. How much better can they all play to make you happy?
Beckett
Hanley Ramirez
Buck should have been a RP
Gagne is the devil
George Kottaras is the next Pudge
Don’t you get tired of talking about the same things over and over and over again? If you really are a Sox fan (and I doubt that as I have stated before) why wouldn’t you focus on being 4 games from the WS? Unreal.
If not, then he’s fair game in my book with the knowledge that a 140 ERA+ is a stepping stone and not an end goal.
I’m not sure what this means. Are you saying a 140 ERA+ isn’t good enough, or is that the level he must achieve before the trade is a “win” in your mind?
At any rate, what pitcher could the Sox have received without giving up Ramirez? Beckett is 27. He’s got at LEAST four more years of prime left. He’s not at traditional peak age. Find me a pitcher like that who’s been available in the last three seasons that would have cost less than Ramirez. Oh, and the Sox got an All-Star, Gold Glove, 120 RBI third baseman in the deal, too. Or does that not count because the Sox didn’t know he would be that good?
also, how the hell could he pitch any BETTER in the post-season?
Just give him the freaking credit he deserves. He’s done nothing but get better since coming here.
The Yankees have a great short-stop, and not ace….where are they right now? How far did that great short-stop take them this week? Do you think Joe Torre would have rather used Beckett last night? It’s crazy, man. Bats mean nothing without pitching – how many times do we need to see it?
me.
Sorry.
Either Brad and Paul have the thinest skins around or their homerism just can’t let any opinion lie unchallenged, no matter how minor or the surrounding context…
Paul –
Please – no one could have predicted the level of success for Okajima. And no one would be surprised if it disappeared just as quickly. But for all of their scouting, no one noticed he hasn’t topped 55 innings in many years? His abuse this years reached absurd proportions.
As for Drew/Jones and defense:
Jones in CF: 106 RATE in career/ 99 RATE in 2007
Drew in RF: 102 RATE in career/ 94 RATE in 2007
So let’s see: Andruw is a better defender in CF than Drew is in RF, but the latter is better overall? And Jones seems to have the better arm too – with many, many more OF assists.
Besides, everyone knew Drew was a piss ant. And he’s shown exactly that. Andruw doesn’t have the best personality, but I think playing in Boston would energize him – he’s not a stiff.
Pete, honestly what gives? You discount every success the FO has made, and overemphasize every mistake. The Red Sox have the best record in baseball, and are hitting on all cylinders now in the playoffs. What more do you want?
There are always mistakes. Deal with them and move on.
Pete: you and i have never had a beef and I really don’t want one. But if you were a Yankee fan you’d drive me crazy.
Criticizing your own team is not the issue – most of us here do it and if anythign I think it’s a sign of maturity and some objectivity. But from all the posting I’ve seen over the weeks, the only passionate tone in any of your posts has been the Sox-bashing ones, never the Sox-did-great ones. On the latter, you seem to exhibit a distanced-rationalism (i.e. “I picked them to go to the WS”) while on the former you are seemingly always worked up and 75% of your posts seem to be in this vein.
I’d agree with some that you are a Yankee-fan-in-disguise, but I don’t think that would be fun to pull off in such a nuanced way so I believe you are an SF. I just don’t understand how down you can be on a team that right now, has to be the odds-on-favorite to win it all.
their homerism just can’t let any opinion lie unchallenged
Besides, everyone knew Drew was a piss ant. And he’s shown exactly that.
These two statements are asinine. There’s no other word for it. Our conversations are over.
Ironhorse–thanks for the help. I’m glad a YF notices something wrong with Woost–errr, I mean Pete.
No, not thin skinned at all. You continue to shit on one of the best aces in baseball, and when you need to, you turn to VORP or some other stat to back your argument, cherry-picking whatever you can to make a point.
I’m sick of it. You hate everything the front office has done, you never give credit without following it by a back-handed slap at something else, you do nothing short of kneeling at the New York alter, and you continually push buttons when you have no room to do so.
Also, you leave Lowell out of the equation every single time (not that it needs him anyhow).
Could you please just come clean here. At least we could all respect that.
People wonder why I argue my opinions? Look at the absurd level of knee-jerking I’m getting. SF makes fair points and I agree with them but somehow all I do is crap ion the team?. I predicted the Sox sweep and their hopefully impending rings and somehow I hate everything Sox?
Please get some perspective people…
Never said Becks could get better in this post-season. He was fantastic and hopefully will keep it up. Next year I’m looking for a further step forward. But if he brings home a ring and just stays consistent, in my book call me satisfied.
The Red Sox are the best team in baseball. Speaking in broad generalities, that means the Front Office did more good than bad. When it comes down to it, that’s all that matters. As Ironhorse said the Sox are 4 games away from playing World Series baseball in Boston, yet you still find ways to bring up Hanley. Hilarious.
Or, maybe I’m just a thin-skinned homer for not thinking they’ve done too bad, or that Beckett has been absolutely awesome this year, or, and this is a long shot, they’re a well-constructed team that is on the verge of going to the playoffs.
I still contend that you are hoping with all your might that Beckett gets pounded, Drew gets hurt, Manny goes hitless, and Gagne blows a game so you can say “told you so”.
I know you’re upset over the Yankee loss and all, but really, it’s freaking old here, man.
edit: verge of the world series I mean.
Even if they win it all, their management has shown little interest in keeping a winning team together. They could win another ring and all three could be gone.
Posted by: Pete | Tuesday, October 09, 2007 at 11:00 AM
That’s how this started. Out of nowhere. And it escalated from there.
Here’s a fun exercise: Name three things you think the Sox FO has done right since Epstein was hired in 2002/03 (after which the Sox have made the postseason in every year but one and won the World Series).
Atheose –
The Yankees had the best record for a few years and nothing came of it. I don’t think that’s anything to hang your hat on.
Like I said, they win a ring, I’ll promptly STFU. But deep down, I don’t want one (or two) – I want a dynasty. And from this FO, I don’t see dynastic thinking across the board. It’s flashes of smart decisions mixed with incredibly short-sighted ones.
Next year I’m looking for a further step forward.
See, I’ll take three or four more years just like this one. That will have been an all-time great deal for the Sox, if it pans out that way, trading a non-sure thing AA ball player for five years of an elite ML starter (and a near team-MVP third baseman as a throw-in, to boot).
Glad to know Beckett has to improve on being one of the three or four best starters in the AL to satisfy you, Pete. Your expectations are quite absurd.
Jesus Christ.
Out of freaking control.
They are on the verge of their third ALCS in four years, and the chance to win their second WS in the same time, but somehow, their long term view of winning hasn’t been good enough for you.
Amazing.
On Sox prospects the rest of the way, I think they are the best team, but I also think the pitching match-ups for the coming week are pretty compelling. The schedule allows for Sabathia and Carmona X 2 each. Not only their games against NY in the ALDS, but even their regular season performances make me think Carmona is the ace now. The matchups between them and Beckett SHOULD be epic and those with any of the other Boston starters and one or the otehr of these two should favor Cleveland. Of course, Boston’s offense outclasses Cleveland’s as does its closer and all starters after the #2 guy. But those top pitchign matchups should make for some great pitching duels.
That’s because he’s a Yankee fan. We all know, we’ve all called him on it, and he continues to bitch out on admitting it. Those expectations come from the other side of the fence, where everything short of a world series is a failure.
I mean, he compared Lowell to Brosious. Enough said.
I don’t see dynastic thinking across the board.
Which must be why they traded all their young pitch– oh, wait.
Well, it must be why they’ve missed the pla– wait, no.
You do realize that the Yankees are the only team in 30 years to have a dynasty, don’t you? And that the game’s parity has increased exponentially since then? So what you’re really doing is criticizing the Sox’ FO for not being lucky enough to have a dynasty. Sounds like good reasoning to me.
And from this FO, I don’t see dynastic thinking across the board
Pete:
Not to put too fine a point on this, but this is a moronic statement. I don’t want this to be taken as calling YOU a moron, clearly you are not that. But “dynastic thinking”? What the f*ck is that, even? What team thinks “dynastically”? The Patriots? The Yankees? The Patriots, a “dynasty” (to use an awful term, as we’ve discussed here before), famously let Deion Branch go for draft picks, still made the AFC Championship. They let Lawyer Milloy go for nothing, and still won a title. These are moves that if the Sox made you’d KILL them for, but which show more foresight and intelligence than anything, but which don’t fit the “dynastic” attitude you so desire.
The Bush and Clinton families exhibit “dynastic” thinking…
Brad –
How many players from 2004 are on this team?
Sorry, that’s not a dynasty. It’s restocking without losing value and that IS a nifty trick. Sure, lots of accolades. Bravo!
SF –
A very good (shudder to use only the word “good”) starting pitcher is not as valuable as a top of his generation SS. That’s a fact. And Becks inconsistency is also a fact. But how many times do I have to say that I’ll STFU about it if he brings home a ring? It won’t matter much what happens afterwards, though in 2011 other people may still crow about the trade if he doesn’t keep it up while Hanley most certainly will. Position players develop at much more consistent lines than pitchers.
Meanwhile, I’ve already been proven right on Gagne and Buchholz in spite of the friction I received here. I’m VERY comfortable in my opinions, thanks. And one of those is the Sox win the ALCS in six games.
Dynastic thinking is not trading Hanley or Beltre (and most certainly not for a relief pitcher rental) cause you never know the one that will become a Jeter or Bernie.
But how many times do I have to say that I’ll STFU about it if he brings home a ring?
You would have had a hell of a time with Ted Williams.
Who should they have kept?
Millar?
Pedro?
Damon?
Guy, letting those guys go was an essential move to ensure that they’re able to win in the future, and not waste money and time on people that are not going to continue to produce. Sometimes, retooling the right way, which they HAVE DONE, is the way to win. They have shown us that. Yes, there was a down year, yet here they are, right back in the mix for another title.
Who should they have kept that would have qualified for “dynastic thinking”? Pedro? Kapler?
I’m listening.
SF –
Decent wide receivers are very cheap but not so cheap as to be completely ignored. And Billy learned the hard way.
Ah, the Jeter and Bernie comparisons yet again.
Unbelievable.
You’re too much man. I’m resided to believe that you’re sitting in your yankee chair, posting on LoHud right now, sipping green tea from your Scooter mug. I can’t take you seriously any longer. Well, not that I ever really have because you are the ONLY person on earth that would rather have Hanley than Lowell and Beckett.
Doesn’t it strike you as odd that every fan on this board, on both sides, has asked you to stop acting like you’re something you’re clearly not.
The Beckett trade worked out marvelously for us–our best pitcher and team MVP came in that deal. We are now in the ALCS because of it, because let’s be honest: Lowell carried this team offensively, and Beckett carried it defensively. Therefore, it was a good move.
SF –
The ring isn’t the only standard. But for Beckett, after this “very” good year, it’s enough for me. Still, he’ll have a hard time of it if he has another sub-100 ERA+ year and the Sox miss the playoff.
Brad –
Who among the 2004 team? To say so now, based on what we know, wold be a silly argument. But at the time, I thought Cabrera, Damon, and Pedro. Looking back, relative to their other moves, only Pedro would have been the clear mistake.
Sorry, it’s been fun. But I get to go have dinner with my beautiful wife in Italy. Sucks not having baseball to stay up to 4 am.
Till next time…
Brad, I think it’s safe to say we should all ignore Woost. It’s just annoying us, when we SHOULD be focusing our energy on the ALCS.
Meanwhile, I’ve already been proven right on Gagne and Buchholz
Funny because what you SAID was the Sox didn’t need Gagne. And that was wrong.
yes but would you trade Jeter for an average pitcher and Brosious? That’s how you MUST judge this deal.
So, now we can’t give the credit for having the hindsight to see that those moves were not good ones to make? Again, no credit where it’s due. They just cheaped out on all of them, I’m sure. They didn’t see any downside to signing any of those players.
That’s stupid, Pete. No matter how you look at it, the Sox made exactly the right moves with that ’04 team once it was over, and it’s paying off for them, if not a “dynasty” (you already enjoyed one of those, remember?), a very well constructed long term team.
I’m confused … what good has Gagne done the Sox?
Gagne ended up being a bust, but we DID need another relief arm. That’s Paul’s point.
Gagne will be a bust when the chips fall, but until then, I’ll just say he’s not done well so far. If Gagne goes out in the next series, or better in the world series, and throws four or five shutout innings in a few key spots, I’ll forget all about his August.
Little late to the game here, but I’m kind of amazed that Pete doesn’t see the continuity between the 2004 and 2007 Red Sox. Sure, there’s been turnover, but Manny and Papi are still the heart of the lineup, Tek is still spreading his intangible juices all over the plate, and Wake and Schill are still two fifths of the rotation. Hell, even Timlin is still our requisite good ol boy in the pen. That’s 3 key position players, 2 starting pitchers, and a reliever.
By contrast, look at the 1996 vs. 99 Yanks – Only 4 position players (Tino, Jeter, O’Neil and Bernie), 2 starters (Pettitte and Cone), and 2 relievers (Nelson and Mo) survived.
So apparently the difference between a dynasty and a non-dynasty is 4 vs. 3 position players and 2 vs. 1 reliever. Who knew?
“Tek is still spreading his intangible juices all over the plate”
Why do I feel dirty after reading this?
Atheose –
Right, they DID need a relief arm. Too bad he tossed a no-hitter in his second major league start and is now watching the playoffs on TV. And trading Beltre for three months of Gagne is inexcusable, especially before seeing if Buck or Delcarmen could handle the job.
Tyrel –
You forgot Posada. And I wouldn’t call Papi a position player seeing as he rides the bench for half of the World Series. So yeah, 5 position players versus 2.5 – yeah, I’d call that significant. Meanwhile, three of the Yanks’ five were at the three most important defensive positions. And Mo Rivera is in a different league from Mike Timlin. With Paps, Hanley, Ells, and Pedroia, the Sox could have had a fantastic core going forward. Without Hanley, they lost the second most valuable player in baseball.
“You forgot Posada.”
No I didn’t. Posada played in only 8 games in ’96. But I did forget Youk, who played in 72 games but didn’t play in the post-season.
And if you only consider Ortiz half a player, then it’s obvious you haven’t been paying much attention for the last five years. He and Manny are the heart of this little thing we’ve had going.
“they lost the second most valuable player in baseball”
The Sox lost Albert Pujols?
VORP! VORP!
Rememeber, we can’t take into account that he hits against objectively the worst pitchers in baseball in the NL East, in front of a young Manny Ramirez, plays in a city with absolutely no pressure (or fan base to speak of) whatsoever, and hasn’t shown that he’s capable of carrying a team the way Lowell (and Beckett has) yet. See Florida has a great young SS, but no pitching to speak of, which ultimately results in not making the playoffs and not even sniffing a world series. But, we should be upset we got a Cy Young contender (and probable winner) and Mike Lowell.
VORP!
Also see : New York, Philadelphia, the other New York, and countless other teams with great six holes, no pitching, and an open schedule for the rest of this month.
Edit: The Yankees do have some pitching, or at least positive futures, but just not enough this year. No offense meant to that staff, which simply didn’t show up for them when they needed them to.
And I wouldn’t call Papi a position player seeing as he rides the bench for half of the World Series
Splitting hairs, considering the Yankees’ DH wasn’t consistent between 1996 and 1999. Tyrel’s point is an excellent one, and your attempt to refute it sounds pretty desperate, Pete. If the Sox win in 2007, they won;t have a dynasty, but it will be arguably the “same” ballclub — same offensive leaders, same management, same front office. The main difference of note is the closer and the ace starter. in this day, it’s very rare to see the majority of a team stay together for more than two years at a time, which is why the whole concept of “dynasty” is tenuous.
Dear God, Please cancel FrankTV. It hurts. It hurts so much. Make it stop.