Hankfan vs. Halfan

I saw this Tyler Kepner piece linked on the indispensable River Ave. Blues, one of the best Yanks blogs going.

Hank’s brother, Hal Steinbrenner, is just as powerful as a successor
to their father, the principal owner George Steinbrenner, who is
essentially retired. Hal Steinbrenner’s primary responsibility is to
oversee the Yankees’ finances, and he is reluctant to add another huge

According to several people who have spoken to the
brothers recently, that is the crux of the debate in the organization
over whether to trade for Johan Santana of the Minnesota Twins.
Both Steinbrenners want the team to keep winning. Hal Steinbrenner
would try to do it with the existing payroll of roughly $200 million.
Hank is more inclined to add Santana, largely to keep him away from the
rival Boston Red Sox.

Steinbrenner did not return a telephone message Thursday, and Hal
rarely grants interviews. But the result of the internal debate is that
nothing has changed since the Yankees pulled their offer at the winter
meetings in Nashville a month ago.

So are you an HF or an HF? You rooting for Hank or Hal? As the younger brother of a tyrant I am partial to Hal’s position. And yet I was a tyrant to my younger brother, who had opinions he should have kept to himself frankly. So I can see Hank’s view. Hal is being an annoying little twerp. I guess that leaves me kind of agreeing with both brothers.

Here’s one insight I can give: In my family, the oldest brother always won the fight.

34 comments… add one
  • Of course, their positions aren’t in conflict next off-season. And to a large extent they’ve already played chicken with Smith. Indeed, after the highly public Yankee offer, let’s see him trade Santana for a pitching prospect that doesn’t even have the numbers of Kennedy and a all-field, no-hit CF.

    Mike YF January 4, 2008, 1:45 pm
  • And to a large extent they’ve already played chicken with Smith.
    And if it weren’t for that damned Peter Gammons, Santana would be in pinstripes!!!!

    SF January 4, 2008, 2:12 pm
  • Classic Nick, I’m the middle of three brothers and I couldn’t agree with you more. My older brother needs to see the light and my little brother needs to fall in line. Same way it’s always been and I think it always will be.

    LocklandSF January 4, 2008, 2:41 pm
  • Live chat over at Baseball America regarding Sox prospects. Interesting stuff.
    Q: J.P. from Springfield asks:
    Had Beltre not been traded to TX, would he have cracked the Top 10?
    A: Jim Callis: Interesting, hadn’t thought about this . . . He probably would have just missed. He wasn’t as impressive in the GCL as Oscar Tejeda (No. 9) was, and Josh Reddick (No. 10) had a strong season, too.
    Q: JAYPERS from IL asks:
    Better prospect and arm overall – Buchholz or Joba? Which one ranks higher on your personal Top 50 list?
    A: Jim Callis: Chamberlain has a better pure arm, but Buchholz has a deeper arsenal of plus pitches. In other words, Chamberlain can throw harder, but he can’t match Buchholz’ repertoire of plus fastball, plus-plus curveball, plus slider and plus-plus changeup. I had Buchholz at No. 2 and Chamberlain at No. 3 on my personal Top 50 list, with Jay Bruce at No. 1.
    Q: Aaron from Boston, MA asks:
    Jim, you rated Lars Anderson best hitter for average over Jacoby Ellsbury? We all know you love Lars but please explain.
    A: Jim Callis: I do love Lars, and I think the Red Sox may love him more than I do. I talked to several sources, and the overwhelming majority believed Anderson is a better pure hitter than Ellsbury. Ellsbury was a close second, and obviously his speed is going to help him leg out a lot of hits. I can’t wait to see what Anderson does this year in Lancaster.
    Q: Aaron from Boston, MA asks:
    Jim, you rated Lars Anderson best hitter for average over Jacoby Ellsbury? We all know you love Lars but please explain.
    A: Jim Callis: I do love Lars, and I think the Red Sox may love him more than I do. I talked to several sources, and the overwhelming majority believed Anderson is a better pure hitter than Ellsbury. Ellsbury was a close second, and obviously his speed is going to help him leg out a lot of hits. I can’t wait to see what Anderson does this year in Lancaster.
    Q: Mike from Lynchburg, VA asks:
    Jim – love the chats. How far behind Votto would you say Lars Anderson’s ceiling is? Or is it higher? How many homers can you see him hitting eventually in the big leagues?
    A: Jim Callis: Votto has proven more, but I think Anderson has more upside as a hitter. I can see him hitting 30 homers in the majors once he’s older, stronger and pulls the ball more than he does now.
    Q: Ben from Leland Grove asks:
    If Epstein doesn’t trade Lowrie, how soon could he be pushing for a starting SS job at Fenway?
    A: Jim Callis: That depends on how much slack they’re going to give Julio Lugo, who is due another $30 million over the next three years. On many clubs, Lowrie would the Opening Day shortstop or get the chance to win that job in spring training. But Lugo’s contract makes it more likely that Lowrie will open the year in Triple-A. He could hit enough to play second or third base, but he’s blocked at those spots by Dustin Pedroia and Mike Lowell. I think he eventually does become a trade chip.
    Sorry to threadjack!

    John - YF January 4, 2008, 3:44 pm
  • Q: Hank from New York, NY asks:
    Is Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masteron too much for Santana? And who has the better offer on the table, the Sox or the Yanks offer that’s rumored to be Hughes, Cabrera, Marquez, 4th prospect. Thanks for the chat.
    A: Jim Callis: I don’t think that’s too much. From Boston’s standpoint, you’re upgrading Lester to Santana; replacing Crisp with Ellsbury; Lowrie has no place to play right now; and Masterson is a setup guy who could start or close elsewhere. That’s better than the Yankees’ offer, though I would take Hughes over any of the guys in the Boston package.

    John - YF January 4, 2008, 3:47 pm
  • Between Hank or Hal — the Buffoon or the Mute — I guess the one who doesn’t shoot his mouth off and who has yet to destroy his own credibility is preferable.

    Hudson January 4, 2008, 3:53 pm
  • nice constructive comment.

    sam-YF January 4, 2008, 3:55 pm
  • “Between Hank or Hal — the Buffoon or the Mute”
    Hey Hudson – lose that BS. It makes you sound like a dick.

    The Sheriff (Andrews) January 4, 2008, 4:14 pm
  • Hey Trisk, Hank didn’t give his last name, did he? :)

    Anonymous January 4, 2008, 4:16 pm
  • Again sorry to threadjack. I am going to post something regarding the Callis chat from BA today. It was very informative. The Yankees chat is Monday. Callis released his Sox top 10 prospect list as well.

    John - YF January 4, 2008, 4:24 pm
  • I’m a Hal guy – I really want to see the youngsters develop. (and I hope Santana goes to the Mets)

    The Sheriff (Andrews) January 4, 2008, 4:48 pm
  • i’ll take felix lopez. not only is he a solid baseball mind, my hedges have never looked better. although….he did get bitter when i asked him to cross-cut the sox logo in my yard.

    sf rod January 4, 2008, 5:20 pm
  • “i’ll take felix lopez. not only is he a solid baseball mind, my hedges have never looked better. although….”
    That has a racist tone to it that I’m frankly uncomfortable with, rod.

    The Sheriff (Andrews) January 4, 2008, 6:38 pm
  • A Sox fan with racist leanings? Nah.

    Mike YF January 4, 2008, 6:58 pm
  • Guys, Felix’ nickname in the Yankee organization is “Felix the Gardner”, at least according to this Daily News story.
    I suggest you both retract your comments. They are both off-base. And MIke, making a blanket statement about Sox fans like you just have is an incredibly dangerous one, I will leave it at that.

    SF January 4, 2008, 10:20 pm
  • sf, to be fair and balanced, you need to scold rod too…

    dc January 4, 2008, 10:28 pm
  • oops, you did…sorry

    dc January 4, 2008, 10:29 pm
  • If sf rod was making a comment about anything but Lopez’ nickname, then that too is WAY off base. If he can clarify that I’d be pleased to hear from him as well. As it is, Mike’s generalization about Sox fans’ racism is way over the line, ridiculously so. We don’t traffic in crap like that at this site.

    SF January 4, 2008, 10:30 pm
  • Uh… the article “A” signifies a singular entity which rod’s comment represents. There was no generalization no matter how much you want to read one into it, Andy.
    For the record, a generalization would be: Sox fans are racists. Given the history of the organization, that generalization wouldn’t be too far off-base either /joke.

    Mike YF January 4, 2008, 10:40 pm
  • Nice try, Mike, but the sarcastic “nah”, as in “big shock, a racist Sox fan” is exactly that, a generalization.
    This is BS, your evasion of responsibility for your comment.

    SF January 4, 2008, 10:52 pm
  • Meanwhile, I thought generalizations are okay around here? Shoot, Hudson seems to be a nice representative of Red Sox Nation. But I thought specific insults earned a wrist slap. Even then I didn’t say Rod = racist. Nor did Andrew. Worse, regardless of the kid’s nickname, Andrew was spot on to call out the tone of the comment. It’s a shame we’re now the ones being called out, first and foremost, like we somehow overreacted. The problem is the original comment. Why not stick to that chastising that, Andy? Somehow I feel like it’s Groundhog Day around here. It seems like the Sox Fan authors always find a way to defend their guys, even here when they make racist comments.

    Mike YF January 4, 2008, 10:54 pm
  • I don’t think I have ever been more disgusted by the turn a thread has taken on YFSF than this one since 6:58 p.m.

    Paul SF January 4, 2008, 11:35 pm
  • Mike, you’ve got to do a better job reading the comments. As I mention above, Lopez’ nickname in the Yankee organization is “the Gardener”. So if sf rod is just making a joke based on that there is nothing racist about it. It might be a bad joke, but that’s up to each reader to decide. On the other hand, and as I have already stated above, if it is not based on that nickname then sf rod is way off base and in a pretty terrible spot. Without hearing from him first I am not willing to make that judgment. That’s eminently fair.
    Your comment about Sox fans effectively states the following: “it is not suprising that a Sox fan is a racist”. I imagine if I said something like “it is not surprising that a Yankee fan is a misogynist” I would be (properly) reprimanded for tarring Yankees fans in general, despite the use of the singular. That is a copout.

    SF January 4, 2008, 11:38 pm
  • Paul, a subtle insinuation of racism is the WORST MOST DESPICABLE thing you’ve *ever* seen on this site? Really? Really?
    Personally, if we’re all being held to the same standard, I don’t see how Hudson’s clumsy attempt at witticism by labeling (“buffoon” and “mute”! oh ho ho clever!) isn’t called out.

    doug YF January 5, 2008, 1:03 am
  • There is a prevailing current in this thread that shows a tacit misunderstanding about how things work here regarding checks and balances of written conversation, and it is supremely annoying.
    I get the fact that some commenters and site authors may have issues with each other. Believe me, all site authors have issues with one another, manifesting themselves in manners that can be less than gracious.
    There is practically no direct moderation of comment whatsoever at this site. That is on purpose, because here is the thing: regardless of the affiliation of the authors and the contribution of the authors and commenters, this place gains its true worth by comment from readers. The authors do what we do because we truly love baseball, and though we have affiliations of varying degree with the great span of baseball in its varied stages (and culinary arts, strangely enough), that is the reason why we invest our time, energy, and thought. We do this in the hope that we may all learn a little more about the game that we all love, learn a little more about what it is about you that involves you in the Game, with a hope that the anonymity afforded by the medium does not obviate respect for one another.
    It would be rather refreshing for people to more regularly admit that they wrote something off the cuff, that upon a second reading or by being addressed by another reader, would make that person say, “yeah, I stepped over the line, sorry,” regardless of what _anyone_ else writes. Better yet, hit “preview”, read it twice, and think, “is this what I really want to say to someone with whom I have a common passion?”
    It’s forty days until pitchers and catchers report. Let’s not make it forty nights as well.

    attackgerbil January 5, 2008, 3:44 am
  • andrews- get a grip. the man that used to cut hal and hanks lawn(s) has worked his way into the position of Senior Vice President of the New York Yankees as well as being named to the Yankee Global Enterprises LLC Board of Directors. if the guy who used to deliver pizzas to hank and hal married his way into 3rd on the Yankee hierarchy depth chart, i’d have a quip for that too. i guess at that point you would label me a “whatever race the sheriff feels most pizza-delivery-boys are” hater. if you chose to imply a “racist tone” that made you uncomfortable, i’d recommend you don’t do it anymore.
    mike- ag’s poignant post made me delete the response i had for your shitflingging.

    sf rod January 5, 2008, 7:40 am
  • Glad to know racist “jokes” are okay, especially when someone already has a nickname along those lines.
    AG – Those are fine thoughts and all. I agree with them in theory. But when I’ve now been called out on multiple occasions by Andy and Paul (working as a tagteam as usual) while SF’s slide right by with jokes AND get the benefit of the doubt. The problem isn’t with the theory but how it is applied.
    Doug – Give up on expecting equal treatment around here. It’s not going to happen.

    Mike YF January 5, 2008, 9:09 am
  • Man, I wish Oil Can Boyd was still pitching. I’m sure we could have a lot of “fun” with racist jokes there.

    Mike YF January 5, 2008, 9:11 am
  • it seems like the Sox Fan authors always find a way to defend their guys, even here when they make racist comments.
    This is offensive to me. It implies a deep intellectual dishonesty on the part of one half of the authorship of this site, and personally I think that’s a ridiculous charge. The idea that I (or Paul, or anyone who authors this site) would defend a racist or racist positions simply because they root for the same team as us is beyond the pale. If you believe this is the case with us, Mike, then I suggest you find another site to traffic. I have no use for this kind of attitude towards me or my colleagues.

    SF January 5, 2008, 9:17 am
  • Still picking a fight, huh?
    That sentiment goes back to my original post.
    The fact is, in this thread, I made a bad joke and was promptly taken to task when no amount of leeway was given to me. Rod made a bad joke and he received every amount of leeway. You guys tripped all over yourselves providing it to him while slamming me. Interpret that however you want.
    This wasn’t the first time such disparity was obvious and it won’t be the last.

    Mike YF January 5, 2008, 9:34 am
  • sf rod, I was completely unaware of Lopez’ nickname within the yankee organization, therefore I was completely off base by calling you out on what I took to be a racist undertone in your post. For once I’m quite happy that I was wrong. Sorry.

    The Sheriff (Andrews) January 5, 2008, 11:25 am
  • It’s nice to see this was resolved. I raised an eyebrow at SF Rod’s initial post, but then he explained it later and it was all OK. It looked seriously sketchy for a second, which is pretty funny if you look back at it.
    Anyway, here’s a recent Peter Gammons quote from Pete Abraham. His take on the Johan Santana trade market:
    “The more I’ve thought about the Santana deal, the more I’m convinced it’s not a great idea. Whether it’s the Ellsbury deal or the Lester deal, the Sox would still be giving up three young players and I don’t discount the importance that Lowrie will play in the next couple of years. Theo has rebuilt the RS farm system in a very short time and changed the culture. And I think that culture is really important. The baseball people with the Yankees feel the same about what Cashman has done and would prefer not to make a Santana deal. There are days when I really believe that the Red Sox and Yankees wake up and hoping somehow the Mets can find 4 or 5 good prospects in the organization and make the trade, but right now, that’s highly unlikely.”
    At this point, I wish the Mets would just go ahead and trade Reyes and some others for Santana. Reyes’ speed won’t last, and a lefty ace would be so much more valuable to them in the NL. Trading Lastings Milledge in a non-marquee deal was such a waste. He could have been the starting CF the Twins are demanding. Reyes, Milledge, and other prospects could have gotten the deal done. Nice going, Omar.
    If anything, Hal and Cash are on the same side. Hank can’t do anything without Hal’s financial approval. Hank really needs to shut up, this vacillating is not the kind of public statements a loudmouth owner type like him needs to be making.

    doug YF January 5, 2008, 1:26 pm
  • > The problem isn’t with the theory but how it is applied.
    Then I strongly suggest you reconsider how you apply the theory.
    > Doug – Give up on expecting equal treatment around here. It’s not going to happen.
    This clarion call to rally individuals to turn this into and us/them situation is not at all accurate in its basis, nor is it warranted, and it is most certainly not welcome.
    There is not a specific “standard” to which any commenter is held based on affiliation. There is no cadre that occurs between SF, YF, Paul, John, or myself about defense of another, nor any “tag-team” type mentality where some sort of “I got your back” sort of thing occurs _except_ in the event when we all try to refocus the discourse of the site when we find conversations straying into boundary issues that disenchant the readers. There most definitely is a standard about decency and respect that applies to all participants. If you disagree with the standard or a specific incident, email the address under the contact link and it will be diligently considered.

    attackgerbil January 5, 2008, 3:52 pm
  • andrews & doug- sorry if i offended either of you. hopefully you guy’s realize that was not my intentions.
    what are missing mike? if randy levine was the steinbrenners former pizza delivery guy, i’d make a dig like……..how do you get the president of the Yankees off your doorstep? ……you pay him for the pizza. somehow in your bitter little world this would be antisemitic or anti-stoner. i made no reference to felixs race or creed, only to his former occupation. you are the one that made the disingenuous leap.

    sf rod January 5, 2008, 5:41 pm

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