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General Red Sox

He’s Out

Curt Schilling is officially retired, having posted the announcement on his blog.

This party has officially ended. After being blessed to experience 23 years of playing professional baseball in front of the world’s best fans in so many different places, it is with zero regrets that I am making my retirement official.

For all his flaws, Curt Schilling was a damn fine pitcher, author of one of the most awe-inspiring postseason performances in baseball history. His acquisition may be the single most contributing factor to why the Red Sox have been the most successful World Series team this decade.

Farewell, Curt. We'll see you in Cooperstown.

19 replies on “He’s Out”

He was good – look forward to his induction speach… he really sacrificed his 2005 season to win in 2004.
now when does the argument start in this thread about hall worthy.

I listened to Schilling interviewed where he said he was not a Hall of Famer; and I agree with him on that point.

“now when does the argument start in this thread about hall worthy.”
You mean the latest argument, dw? There have been several the last couple of years. Let me summarize:
A. He belongs in Cooperstown.
B. He does not belong in Cooperstown.
:)
Seriously …
Those who say say “yes” point to his dominance when he was at his best and his unGodly postseason numbers. At his best he was one of the best. Great control and a terrific K-to-BB ratio. four WS, three championships.
Those who say “no” point to his lack of a larger body of work and one or two too many mediocre seasons. He was late to develop as a dominant pitcher and he played for some bad Orioles and Phillies teams.
Predicting the vote … I think he will be a tough sell. It will be close.

We’ll hear a lot of comparisons to Mussina, who, like Schilling, also is borderline.
If Schilling gets in and Mussina does not, it will be because of the postseason performances. To me it’s a tipping point. If you hold out the postseason stats, I see both maxing out at just below the minimum number of votes needed to get in, Mussina with a slight edge. With the postseason numbers, Schilling shoots well ahead of Mussina.
(But as long as they receive the minimum number of votes, anything can happen over 15 years.)

yeah, I know there’ve been a few arguments on this site (and others!). If Schill wasn’t so darned tuned into the camera I think more people would be inclined to see his pitching abilities. Obviously, his blovating abilities are also well known….

I don’t think this post had enough hyperbole. He was decent, but having Manny and Papi hitting back to back meant so much more. Take either of those guys away and it’s a very different lineup with vastly different results. We saw that clearly last year.
As for the argument, the general public seems to think he’s a lock. But yeah, if Schilling gets in so should a lot of other good, not great, pitchers with Moose being just one.

The Red Sox had Manny Ramirez for three years and won nothing. They had David Ortiz and Manny Ramirex hitting back to back in 2003 and won nothing because their pitching staff was weak (and so was their manager).
Curt Schilling was the lone significant acquisition for 2004, and as his contract stipulated, he was brought in so the Red Sox could make that leap and win the World Series. Obviously you can’t say one single player is most responsible for a World Series win — which is why I didn’t say that.
Also, I’m on record saying Mussina deserves the Hall. And I’d put Kevin Brown in, too. Everyone forgets how good he was because he tanked in New York. Schilling’s postseason numbers, strikeouts (everyone above him in career Ks is, will be or should be in the Hall) and K/BB ratio (best all-time) are the clinchers on an otherwise-borderline career.

“cooperstown for curt? surely you jest.”
You’re very dismissive, dude. Make your case, if you’re so certain, spell out why. And then I’ll tell you why you’re wrong.

for the same reason i would say no to someone like orel hershiser (204-150; 3.48 ERA). great pitcher, great career, but didn’t do it long enough.
i know you’ll probably get all bill james on me. don’t waste your time. if i am “dismissive”, then you already have made up your mind on this too, re:”I’ll tell you why you’re wrong.” thus, we are not really having a discussion.

They had David Ortiz and Manny Ramirex hitting back to back in 2003 and won nothing because their pitching staff was weak (and so was their manager).
The only difference between 2003 and 2004 was luck (and perhaps a decent closer). Pedro certainly wasn’t weak, Lowe and Wakefield were good enough to win a championship, and they won Game 6 with John Burkett starting. Furthermore, Schilling wasn’t a difference maker in 2007. If they had simply held on to Lowe, the results would have likely been the same, and they would have been much more competitive in 2005 too.
The common denominator between 2004 and 2007 is Ortiz and Manny. As I said, having both was the advantage over every other team. Every playoff team has a pitcher of Schilling caliber.
The bloody sock game stands as a remarkable testament to human will (with the help of pain killers). But the player’s value has been vastly overstated because of it (though exactly in the direction he craves).
Yup, Orel is another one that deserves enshrinement if Schilling gets in.

I’m annoyed because I had a much longer post and Typepad ate it, so here’s the condensed version re: Schilling and Hershiser.
Career ERA+
Schilling, 127, 43rd, tied with Tom Seaver and Bob Gibson.
Hershiser, 112, 258th, tied with Bartolo Colon, Chris Carpenter and Al Leiter.
Career WHIP
Schilling, 1.137, 45th, ahead of Fergie Jenkins and Don Sutton
Hershiser, 1.261, 304th, behind Brad Radke, Ben McDonald and David Cone.
Career strikeouts
Schilling, 3,116, 15th, behind only Hall of Famers and future Hall of Famers, and ahead of Cy Young, Warren Spahn and Bob Feller.
Hershiser, 2,014, 60th, in a group with Javier Vasquez, Catfish Hunter, Andy Pettitte and Kevin Appier.
Career K/9 innings
Schilling, 8.60, 13th, ahead of Roger Clemens and John Smoltz.
Hershiser, 5.79, 258th, behind Danny Darwin and Frank Viola.
Career K/BB ratio
Schilling, 4.38, 2nd (1st after 1900), ahead of every Hall of Famer in the game.
Hershiser, 2.00, 243rd, behind Mark Mulder and Dontrelle Willis.
Postseason
Schilling, 11-2, 2.23 ERA, 10 team series wins in 12 appearances; 4-1, 2.09 ERA in the World Series, two rings in three appearances, and the bloody sock.
Hershiser, 8-3, 2.59 ERA, seven team wins in 12 appearances; 3-3, 4.07 ERA in the World Series, one ring in three appearances.
Schilling v. Hershiser = Not even close.

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