Last Night of the Dynasty? Tribe-Yanks ALDS Gamer III

Rumors of his demise have been greatly exagerated. George Steinbrenner, seen recently at the Trop in Tampa, is alive and most certainly kicking. Actually, according to the Boss himself, he is “doing all right.” And so it would seem. Taking a page from his old playbook, George gifted an interview to the Bergen Record (take that Post, News, and Times!) during which he announced, appropos of Joe Torre: “His job is on the line. I think we’re paying him a lot of money. He’s the highest-paid manager in baseball, so I don’t think we’d take him back if we don’t win this series.” As Cliff Corcoran notes on the Banter, there’s some wiggle room in there with that “think,” but it hardly seems the Boss was parsing carefully, and he’s been known to change his mind regardless. As for Alex, it seems he’s wanted, probably: “I think we’ll re-sign him. I think he’s going to have a good run the rest of the (postseason). I think he realizes New York is the place to be, the place to play. A lot of this (postseason) is laying on his shoulders, you know, but I think he’s up to it.” Got that Boras? So, yes, George has managed to redirect the spotlight on himself, where it most assuredly does not belong, while making a difficult day all the moreso for his employees. Classic Steinbrenner.

So, now that this is out of the way, Baseball. The Yanks hope to stave off elimination this evening, and they do it with The Rocket himself on the mound. This is why he was acquired. It’s a great drama on the biggest stage. Will he be up to it, after the long layoff? What do the baseball gods have in store? What does Joe Torre have in store? Lineups have yet to be posted, but we suspect Jason Giambi to start, in the hopes of lifting what has been an anemic Yankee offense over the past two games. Jake Westbrook takes the hill for the Indians. Can the Yanks get to him before the locusts arrive? We’re spraying ourselves down with a good coating of Cutters, and settling in for a day of baseball. Let’s Go Yanks!

393 comments… add one
  • Just found this blog (via LoHud Blog) – this is a great site. I love the commentary and do like the fact it has a rational Red Sox and Yankee fan talking to one another.
    A Yankees fan myself – but never understood why there couldn’t be a more rational interplay between the two sides.
    As for George – definitely not needed. I hope Torre is kept on simply because there is nothing he can be blamed for when no one bothers to show up for their at bats.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 3:52 pm
  • The lineups, courtesy Pete Abe. Giambi in at first. Matsui the DH. This is the Yankee hitting lineup. Wedge counters with Trot:
    YANKEES
    Damon LF
    Jeter SS
    Abreu RF
    Rodriguez 3B
    Posada C
    Giambi 1B
    Matsui DH
    Cano 2B
    Cabrera CF
    Clemens RHP
    INDIANS
    Sizemore CF
    Cabrera 2B
    Hafner DH
    Martinez C
    Garko 1B
    Peralta SS
    Lofton LF
    Nixon RF
    Blake 3B
    Westbrook RHP

    YF October 7, 2007, 3:53 pm
  • Thanks Rob. Welcome to our little family.

    YF October 7, 2007, 3:54 pm
  • Im heading up to the Bronx tonight. Everyone pray, sacrifice small animals, sit in the right seat, wear your lucky hat, or whatever it does you do to help the Yankees win!
    GO YANKS!!!!

    Sam-YF October 7, 2007, 4:10 pm
  • george is right…if the yanks don’t make some kind of show here…even if they come back and lose in 5, then somebody’s got to pay…he spends a lot of money, compensating his “employees” well….so, put up or shut up…

    dc October 7, 2007, 5:25 pm
  • Now there are two Robs on here, one a SF, one a YF. A little case of split personality eh?

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:08 pm
  • No this yankees fan is off in Ohio – I moved from being surrounded by Sox fans to being surrounded by Indian fans who hate my guts this week (or have laughed at me)
    Great fun was had by this (sadly non-split personality) Rob!
    I hope they pull it out tonight – but more than that I hope A-Rod pulls through since I just want him to be free of some cloud until next season. We wouldn’t be here without him.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:15 pm
  • Well I had to adjust the old display name so we don’t pull a complete hoodwink on everyone.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 6:20 pm
  • I don’t necessarily think Joe has done anything in this series to deserve being fired, but maybe the time has come.
    Let’s win this game and worry about everything else afterwards!

    John - YF (Trisk) October 7, 2007, 6:27 pm
  • Hey, don’t get me wrong, i have the major hots for Julia Stiles and all, but WHERE”S THE FRIGGIN GAME!!!!!!!!!!???????????!!!!!!!!!!!

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:28 pm
  • Seems rather fitting, “Save the last dance” to be interrupted for the Yanks.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 6:30 pm
  • WHERE’S THE GAME!!??!??!?!??!?!??!??!?

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:33 pm
  • Julia stealing Derek’s airtime.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 6:35 pm
  • THANK YOU. Cripes.

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:35 pm
  • Roger Clemens……Roger Clemens
    Like the first ground ball – I think our team NEEDS a 1-2-3 first inning, get us off to the right start.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:38 pm
  • 1 up, 1 down. RAJAH!!!

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:39 pm
  • E6. Crap. Shoulda been an out there.

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:39 pm
  • Ooops.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:39 pm
  • I thought you hated the “dynasty” thing, YF.

    SF October 7, 2007, 6:40 pm
  • derek had more time than he thought, i think. ugh.

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:41 pm
  • SF: It was kind of saracastic.

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:41 pm
  • Jeter throws the ball way over Giambi, and it’s ruled an infield hit.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 6:42 pm
  • So just wondering outloud – how short a leash is Clemens on? And if he gets pulled do you bring in Moose in relief?

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:42 pm
  • 3-2 to Hafner.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 6:43 pm
  • Walked him. 1st and 2nd, one out for VMart.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 6:44 pm
  • hafner with the walk. this hurts. looked like we were off to a blazing start, then the error, and now careful with hafner,…..

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:45 pm
  • I don’t have a good feeling….

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:45 pm
  • Clemens having to work hard so far.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 6:45 pm
  • now 2-0 to martinez. trouble.

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:46 pm
  • I don’t like that stat (the ERA when facing elimination) – it’s like when I watch football – if my kicker is coming up to make a field-goal don’t JINX it by showing the stat of how many he has missed.
    But that just proves I’m insane.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:46 pm
  • 2-2 now. come one rocket. mr. splitty time!

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:47 pm
  • If ARod has another 0-for tonight and the New York fans boo him, I think he opts out for sure. What do you guys think?

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 6:48 pm
  • Works out of it! Nice job Rocket!!!

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:48 pm
  • NICE – good job to get a pop out, now there’s less of a worry (pop out or grounder)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:48 pm
  • Damon in left?

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 6:48 pm
  • Atheose: Just watch the game, let that take care of itself later.

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:49 pm
  • I think we have to be fair to the Rocket due to how long it has been since he pitched. Just sad he’s in this position he might get pulled simply because we have no choice (yay 5 game series!)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:49 pm
  • Garko scores Cabrera, 1-0 Tribe.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 6:50 pm
  • Run scoring single up the middle.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 6:50 pm
  • Why did I open my mouth? But shut them down on this one (show it’s just baseball and not a total bleed) and we’ll be fine.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:50 pm
  • And the single up the middle F^CK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1-0.
    That’s on Jeter.

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:50 pm
  • Single up the middle, Indians score first. Rocket looking rusty.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 6:50 pm
  • Sorry RobSF (forcing you to adjust your name)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:50 pm
  • Good thing for the Yanks is Westbrook is pitching.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 6:51 pm
  • Huge pitch count now. This sucks. Really, really, horrible error from Jeter. Did I mention that?
    Roger a bit timid, staying with that slider.

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:52 pm
  • No problem Rob…lol. Would have made things really interesting around here otherwise.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 6:52 pm
  • 27 pitches for Rogah.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 6:52 pm
  • Sorry YF, it’s easy to forget that the Yankees–facing elimination–have bigger worries. I’m not saying that to be antagonistic, I’m just not used to this. The Yankees are usually on the other end of the sweep.
    Ground-out ends the inning. 27 pitches from Rocket so far.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 6:52 pm
  • Ok time for us to work the other pitcher – even it out (a CC Sabathia type inning – just with more scoring)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:52 pm
  • And he gets the grounder to Jeter there. FEH. Horrible big pitch count inning.
    Clemens looked a bit shy to unload the heater with men in scoring position. Wisely keeping the ball down, to get the grounder. One got through, the next one an out. He’s cagey, that Clemens. Wasn’t going to give up the big hit.

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:54 pm
  • Damon singles to left. Are we looking at a possible slugfest tonight?

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 6:57 pm
  • That’s what I’m talking about!

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:57 pm
  • OK I want Jeter to pull this and get a double.
    AWWWW so close!

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:57 pm
  • Damon having fun out there! Jeets just foul with the bunt. DAMN. We need a break.

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:58 pm
  • Please tell me they can’t say Torre isn’t doing his job – a great call to try and get something started.
    I have a lot of respect for Big Stein – but sometimes it’s silly.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:58 pm
  • Ha, Jake Westbrook.
    The Yanks ought to score at least five or six off of him, easy.

    SF October 7, 2007, 6:59 pm
  • The Ultimate GameKiller: Double Play

    Rob October 7, 2007, 6:59 pm
  • Un.Be.Lieve.A.Ble.
    Nothing going our way.
    Jeets killing us!
    Come on Bobby!

    YF October 7, 2007, 6:59 pm
  • I hope we get up A-Rod – I want to see him hit a homer early and just shake up this whole series in the first inning.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:00 pm
  • 3-1 to abreu. come on. get on for alex….

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:00 pm
  • nope. a hard out to first. easy play. back to defense. nothing.
    so frustrating.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:01 pm
  • Ok you know I think I’m going to start saying what I DO NOT want to have happen – since saying what I want seems to do the opposite.
    I want a plague of locusts to descend from the direction of New Jersey on Yankee Stadium!

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:01 pm
  • “I want a plague of locusts to descend from the direction of New Jersey on Yankee Stadium!”
    I think they’re still hanging out in Cleveland…

    Josh SF (D1) October 7, 2007, 7:03 pm
  • Lofton swipes a short fly to Jeets. 1 down.
    Rocket sure could use a quick one.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:06 pm
  • Nixon dinger. Friggin’ Nixon. 2-0.
    FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:07 pm
  • Ok – big question – when does the leash get yanked?
    Ugh – sorry for the slight pun.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:07 pm
  • TROT! 2-0 Chiefs.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:08 pm
  • I guess that’s why Rocket’s been kinda shy with that heater.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:08 pm
  • Nice pitch there! Curveball rolled to Cano. 4-3. 2 down.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:09 pm
  • Ok – big question – when does the leash get yanked?
    I don’t get it? Are you referring to Trot’s description as a “dirt dog” ?

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:09 pm
  • sizemore single to right. need the out here from carmona. don’t want hafner up with 2 on.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:10 pm
  • “A Rocket into right field” – off the Rocket – get it???
    Man I wish I got paid enormous amounts of $$$ to say inane things at a ballgame

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:10 pm
  • Altheose – referring to the short leash I’m sure the Rocket has (because you can’t let this game get away)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:11 pm
  • Very short leash for Roger tonight.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:11 pm
  • I know the Yankees are doomed we’re not even getting the invisi-tags anymore! ::sob::

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:12 pm
  • Oh, okay. For some reason I was trying to think too hard, lol.
    Sizemore steals 2nd.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:12 pm
  • Sizemore sb.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:12 pm
  • Sizemore “limbo’d” under that tag.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:12 pm
  • Why the hell does Asdrubal Cabrera wear a peal necklace?

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:13 pm
  • Cabrera to Cabrera. 3 down. just 1 in. gotta start scoring some runs at some point, right?

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:14 pm
  • Wow I NEVER had noticed that. It’s just odd. If there is a meaning behind it I’d love to know.
    But in general I never have understood the need to wear a necklace, all I can think of is how annoying it’d be having something on your neck as you’re running all over the place on the field, but everyone seems to need one.
    I don’t get it – maybe it’s like a player’s union clause “Must wear jewelry of some sort”

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:15 pm
  • gotta start scoring some runs at some point, right?
    Yep, and hopefully it’s in March in a split-squadder!

    SF October 7, 2007, 7:15 pm
  • LOL

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:16 pm
  • Alex gets a hand, but no one’s too happy about anything.
    First pitch swinging, fouls one back to the screen. That was low and outside.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:17 pm
  • Cabrera’s pearl necklace is something that his mother made for him. I believe he wears it as some kind of good luck charm or something.

    SoxFan October 7, 2007, 7:17 pm
  • Was A-rod cheered? Since they made such a big deal about how he was going to be entered I loved how the announcers felt that was the perfect time to keep talking (and not letting us hear the crowd’s response).

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:17 pm
  • Yeah, everyone on the Sox wears necklaces too. There’s probably some superstitious reason.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:17 pm
  • 3-1. Westbrook not giving him much.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:17 pm
  • Yes!

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:18 pm
  • Chokey-McChokester brought his big-boy pants to the game tonight. No boos tonight.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:18 pm
  • SINGLE. Off the schneid.
    HERE. WE. COME. (I hope.) (Fingers crossed) (PLEASE!!!!)

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:19 pm
  • ARod with a thun-drous… single.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 7:19 pm
  • Posada GIDP, rally over.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:20 pm
  • Ok well so much for A-Rod breaking out of his struggles – the middle of this lineup hasn’t done its job (he’s a part of a general problem, not THE problem)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:20 pm
  • “Biting and biting hard.” Yep.
    2 innings. 2 dps.
    Derek and Jorge: Killing us!

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:20 pm
  • The announcers on TBS are ear-splitting. After Jered Weaver wiggled out of the second (men on 2/3, nobody out), Steve Stone said “that could be the save that sends the Angels on to victory!”. In the second inning. I couldn’t help but think back to Pettitte in the sixth on Friday, and how great that effort was, and how that game ended. These guys have NO memory at all, or just don’t care.

    SF October 7, 2007, 7:20 pm
  • YAGO, as the gerb would have it. 3 down. Meat of the Tribe to come. Yanks can’t catch a break. Or make one for themselves.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:21 pm
  • Jorge: Killing us!
    And in seven innings, you may not have to worry about that happening ever again, except in interleague play when the Yanks play the Mets…
    ;-)
    I jest.

    SF October 7, 2007, 7:21 pm
  • So much for Giambi providing some “pop”. I’m sure that means Torre is the worst manager ever and should be fired as part of the “entertainment” during the 7th inning stretch.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:22 pm
  • I’m torn between wanting the Yankees to win a couple to tire the Indians out for the Sox, and wanting an ALCS re-match… and the powerful desire to see the turncoat Rah-jah dressed down in his final MLB appearance.
    So much schadenfreude, so little time.
    OK, I’ll stop trolling.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 7:23 pm
  • Hughes up. Smart Joe not taking chances.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:24 pm
  • Uh oh, something’s wrong with Clemens. I know we’ve all said this SEVERAL times before, but could this be the last time we all see Clemens on a baseball mound?

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:25 pm
  • Gotta stop giving them extra outs – who do you think we go to first in the bullpen?

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:27 pm
  • BB to Hafner after getting ahead. Roger real shy around the zone.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:27 pm
  • lol, Hudson.
    Roger’s hammy just pop or something? A walk isn’t exactly like him and now Hughes (Yooghes) is up.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF October 7, 2007, 7:28 pm
  • 0-2 VMart, and the splitter doesn’t fool VMart. Wish he went to the brushback before it.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:29 pm
  • Hughes is already up in the ‘pen. If not him, perhaps Moose?

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:29 pm
  • Clemens already at 59 pitches.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:29 pm
  • Roger is getting ahead of most of the batters, but then he’s failing to put them away.
    Torre buying time for the bullpen by having Posada go talk to Roger. Clemens not looking too good.
    Full count to Martinez, he proves me wrong by getting the strikeout.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:31 pm
  • Clemens blows him away.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:31 pm
  • Blows one by him! That’s the old Roger.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:31 pm
  • That’s not good. and thank you that people stopped Booing (imbeciles)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:31 pm
  • Oh jesus, Roger out after 3.1. I’ve got goosebumps.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:32 pm
  • TTFN Rogah.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:32 pm
  • VMart Ks.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 7:32 pm
  • ROGER DEPARTS.
    Wow. Way to go out.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:32 pm
  • Phil Franchise coming in to try and save the day.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:32 pm
  • Our Franchise (as it stands) lasts on a kid nicknamed “Franchise”.
    Ironic.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:32 pm
  • Hughes in. Tough spot for the rook, but he is The Franchise.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:33 pm
  • Is Clemens injured? Torre pulls him even after getting the strikeout.

    SoxFan October 7, 2007, 7:33 pm
  • I wonder if the injury was exaggerated to get Phil in, catch a breather for everyone?
    Phil gets as many warm up pitches as he needs now. With Roger pitching the way he was this may stem the bleeding.
    I know Roger’s hammy has been bothering him.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:34 pm
  • RCle goes out with a K.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 7:34 pm
  • Correction, 2.1 innings. Like YF says, how fitting that his last out is a K.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:35 pm
  • ruh-roh, no more Roger. Maybe this time he finally friggin retires for good.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF October 7, 2007, 7:35 pm
  • Sad for Clemens – he wanted to be here and give it his all; sometimes he does stuff that gets under my skin but you can’t argue that he’s a competitor and wants to be a winner wherever he is at.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:36 pm
  • Home Run Home Run! (lets go opposite rule!)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:38 pm
  • Yanks get out of the inning on a fly out to left.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:42 pm
  • Dinner time. Back soon. Hope the Yanks come back too.

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:42 pm
  • Technically speaking, Roger now has gone out with an earned run.
    Hard for some of us to feel sorry for the well-compensated Mr. Clemens.
    When he signed in early May, he said:
    “I’m coming back to do the only thing they know how to do with the Yankees, and that’s win a championship. Anything else is a failure, and I know that.”

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 7:42 pm
  • Some here comes the Franchise. To save the day. Easy ground ball on his first batter. Made the second batter broke his bat, but still ends up a hit. Just our luck.
    But he got out of it and three runs are only a couple of hits away, right?
    Got to hold strong.

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 7:43 pm
  • If the title of this discussion is right and it is the end of Roger and Torre is Buster Olney going to come out with his sequel book “Ok now its really the last night, I swear”

    Honkball October 7, 2007, 7:43 pm
  • One small victory so far is that the Yankee Killer—Kenny Lofton has gone 0-2.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:44 pm
  • Unbelievable. These chumps are not even going to make Cleveland sweat.
    Hang it up, ya choking NY’ers. You may be great winning games that do not count but, boy, do you ever suck when the chips are on the table.
    Time to dismatle this embarrasment to the AL East.

    Da Yanks, the best spring training team ever! October 7, 2007, 7:44 pm
  • I agree that this feels much more like the end of the dynasty as opposed to 2001.

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 7:45 pm
  • Anyone else think Steinbrenner made a bad move announcing that quip today? Like it will solve anything. imo it could make the Yankees press even more trying to save Torre.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF October 7, 2007, 7:45 pm
  • So now everytime someone loses, its a ‘choke’?

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 7:46 pm
  • Matsui gutting it out to beat out the throw to 1st.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:47 pm
  • It’s a vintage Steinbrenner move. Cranks up the pressure, no one can really win except Steinbrenner.
    The fact of the matter is we need to get some runs and hits and walks. If we cannot put up more than 3 runs that’s the end of the season in any series.

    walein October 7, 2007, 7:47 pm
  • I wonder how true Pete A’s postulation over at Lohud concerning Mo and Jorge re-signing to a non-Torre team is?
    This game is still very winnable.

    walein October 7, 2007, 7:49 pm
  • We’ll probably need about 7 to win tonight…

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 7:49 pm
  • Certainly the Yankees are more than capable of overcoming a 3 run deficit so early.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 7:50 pm
  • Yeah, Steinbrenner made a horrible move. After last year it seemed like he was listening to the voice of reason by keeping Torre, but he’s back to his “tempter-tantrum” old self.
    Torre can’t help it if his starting pitching (with the exception of Pettitte) and hitting failed to show up for October.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:51 pm
  • Cano grounds out in what, in essence, was a pitch eating bunt at bat.

    walein October 7, 2007, 7:51 pm
  • That string of double plays had to break, right? How often can you have your blood sucked out of you by a ground ball? We had to string together some hits sometime? The Yanks had to stop looking like old men, didn’t they?
    Well, Cano didn’t get a hit, but Runner to second. We just need to chip away, a run here and there for now. Only the third evening.
    Come on young bucks!

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 7:51 pm
  • Well, we got a stupid play abck. MArtinez made a real mental error.

    walein October 7, 2007, 7:52 pm
  • The problem this year is that there is no logical successor…alot of Yankee fans would have been ok with Pinella last year…this year there is really no attractive Plan B

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 7:53 pm
  • Bad choice by VMart there. Should have gone to 1st.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:53 pm
  • Whoa. A mistake by the Catcher! Outs are more important than runs when you are up by 3!
    Here we go. The Stadium is about to rock!

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 7:53 pm
  • If the Yanks double play out here I’m going to not write for a while. And yes, there will also be wining.

    walein October 7, 2007, 7:53 pm
  • It would end up being Gerardi or Mattingly.

    walein October 7, 2007, 7:54 pm
  • I would love to see one of those crazy Damon pulled down the right field line HRs here.

    walein October 7, 2007, 7:55 pm
  • Mattingly has never managed on any level…Girardi is the second coming of Showalter

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 7:55 pm
  • Brenly and Casey want the Yanks to lose so badly.

    walein October 7, 2007, 7:56 pm
  • I think Mattingly is great but do you think he’s ready to be a manager? What have we seen that makes us think he’d do a good job? I’m not really sure what he has done in the past has done that much to prepare him.
    Or am I just wrong?

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:56 pm
  • I understand that you may not like those options dk but them they is.

    walein October 7, 2007, 7:56 pm
  • Yeah! 3-1

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:57 pm
  • JJJJJJJJJJNNNNNYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

    walein October 7, 2007, 7:57 pm
  • NICE!
    Good that’s what we need – as much as our baseball culture is obsessed with the long-ball we need these more than anything else. String a hits and long-counts. That’s how you end up winning a series.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:57 pm
  • Yes…Damon hits! One Run scores.
    Here comes Captain Comeback!

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 7:57 pm
  • Go to Actober.com, there is a MBL Survivor video on there that is pretty damn funny. Has people playing Bobby Thompson, Jeter and Kirk Gibson.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 7:57 pm
  • Damon singles in a run. Jeter batting with a chance to add more on.
    All of Yankee Stadium is on its feet, and it’s only the 3rd inning. This finally feels like playoff baseball.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:58 pm
  • a three run homerrun would also be nice as well Rob. ;)

    walein October 7, 2007, 7:58 pm
  • Walein, agreed…I’m not saying they arent the frontrunners, just that they arent attractive – especially compared to last year when it was speculated that Pinella was waiting in the wings

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 7:58 pm
  • How about ARod to the Rockies?
    If they progress in the postseason, they may feel they have the resources to go after him. There are already (according to family in Denver) tons of newly-minted Rockies fans, meaning more merchandising and media revenue in theory.
    Just imagine how many home runs he’d hit in that stadium…

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 7:58 pm
  • Fuckin Jeter.

    walein October 7, 2007, 7:58 pm
  • Bloody hell – come on Capt’n.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 7:59 pm
  • 2 jeter depps. wtf!

    YF October 7, 2007, 7:59 pm
  • Three innings, three double-plays! Jeter lets everyone down.
    But the Yankees are on the board, and it’s very early. At the least the New York run put some life into an otherwise unmotivated team.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 7:59 pm
  • *sigh*
    Damn DP. *shakes head* they are gonna make us sweat all damn night.
    And I hate those Frank TV ads.

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 7:59 pm
  • Jeter with the GIDP.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 8:00 pm
  • Just imagine how many home runs he’d hit in that stadium…
    That is just an ungodly thought. You would have to put out meteor storm warnings when he was at bat. Good chance Norad would pick some of his shots up on the radar.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 8:00 pm
  • This Frank TV guy is getting more airtime than Giuseppe Franco….

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 8:02 pm
  • This idiot how just now upgraded Westbrook’s sinker from “good” an inning ago to “turbo” now. Interestingly enough, it was his definition of “turbo” (the sinker that Carmona threw) which was the difference…I guess he doesn’t even listen to himself.

    walein October 7, 2007, 8:03 pm
  • Turbo sinker sounds like something that would destroy your toilet.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF October 7, 2007, 8:07 pm
  • Although Hughes did give up that run when he came in with two runners on, his stuff seem to be good. Lots of movement, that breaking ball has that awesome loop action to it. He’s staying around the zone and keeping the hitters thinking. He seems locked in, especially when battling Sizemore. That fastball climbed 94 on the gun and he didn’t give. He just kept throwing nasty stuff until Sizemore cracked.
    Just a few innings like this, and let the Stadium wake our hitters up, we’ll be fine.
    (I’ve switched into the “positive thinking” mode.)

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 8:11 pm
  • Sounds like the alcohol has kicked in over there Carlos.

    walein October 7, 2007, 8:18 pm
  • Anything that keeps blood off the walls, walein.

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 8:20 pm
  • Cano with a bull fighting Ole!

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 8:23 pm
  • ;)

    walein October 7, 2007, 8:25 pm
  • Garko fights off a great 0-2 curve off the plate.

    walein October 7, 2007, 8:26 pm
  • Nice pitch by Hughes to catch Garko looking.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 8:27 pm
  • Geez, that breaking ball/fastball combo is sick!

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 8:27 pm
  • Garko thrown the frozen rope over the inside of the plate for strike 3. Now if only the Yankees could realize that Jake Westbrook is pitching and that they get paid a total of something like 140 million just to hit baseballs thrown by the Jake Westbrook’s of the world.

    walein October 7, 2007, 8:27 pm
  • sorry about the punctuation there. Brain is only working partially as a result of the nerve calming medication.

    walein October 7, 2007, 8:28 pm
  • If nothing else I think this is showing Phil is a great player and I think we’ll be in a good place for next year (with Joba, Phil, and Ian Kennedy). I think we should use any freed up money to go after Santana.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:30 pm
  • “Westbrook is pitching a beauty so far tonight”
    Consider him jinxed–the Yanks will break out here. Bah.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 8:30 pm
  • Wow – Giambi is really helping. Sheesh.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:31 pm
  • Santana isn’t a free agent until the end of the 2008 season.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 8:31 pm
  • Bob Brenly sounds like he’s never heard or seen the “shift.” Maybe he hasn’t realized that both Ortiz and Giambi have dropped their batting averages about 40 points since the shift has been put on. Giambi striking out is pathetic.

    walein October 7, 2007, 8:31 pm
  • Watch the Yankees try to sign Smoltz.

    walein October 7, 2007, 8:32 pm
  • Ok Cano – time to make up for your Ole – hit one outta here.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:32 pm
  • If nothing else I think this is showing Phil is a great player and I think we’ll be in a good place for next year (with Joba, Phil, and Ian Kennedy). I think we should use any freed up money to go after Santana.
    In order to get Santana in a trade I think the Yanks are giving up atleast one of those three. Possibly even two, I think if the Twins come after two of them then the Yanks should nix the deal.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 8:32 pm
  • Cano – LOSER I told you to hit it OUTTA here.
    Get your head in the game man!
    ;)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:32 pm
  • C’mon Yankees!

    walein October 7, 2007, 8:33 pm
  • Yanks look like they are waking up.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 8:33 pm
  • Yes. Cano Doubles!
    And more importantly, 2nd and 3rd one out. A groundball can score a run. Takes the double play out of the equation.

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 8:33 pm
  • Relax with the pointing to the dugout Robbie…I’m sure Melky realizes you did it for him…

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 8:33 pm
  • By the way, the Twins will surely trade Santana by the deadline next season if they aren’t in contention. They could get tons of talent for him.
    In other news, Tony Massarotti is reporting that the Twins are talking with the Sox about Santana, and want Coco Crisp, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 8:34 pm
  • Wonder if he gets the go-sign with all the DPs if it hits 3-0

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:34 pm
  • Hughes and Melky is probably what it would take to get Santana…may be a bit steep

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 8:35 pm
  • Bottom of the lineup remembers who their playing!

    walein October 7, 2007, 8:35 pm
  • Phew – glad he didn’t get thrown out.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:35 pm
  • Come on grady-little like move…keep him in and we come back.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:36 pm
  • Yes. The Young Bucks are stepping up to the plate.
    Not to lose focus, but please note that Cano and Cabrera just got big hits while Hughes has thrown killer stuff for the last 2 innings. All of this in a do-or-die playoff game.
    And they are all under, what? 24 years old? That makes me smile…but now we get back to the ground and think about the next few innings to deal with.

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 8:36 pm
  • Yankees clawing their way back, inch by inch…

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 8:37 pm
  • Woah, another TBS error. They reported that he’s 4 for 11 this series, but he’s actually only 3 for 11 (.273).

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 8:37 pm
  • strange that last pitch I swear he called the same thing a strike on Giambi. Not sure what this strike zone is.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:38 pm
  • Damon is the new champion.

    walein October 7, 2007, 8:38 pm
  • Fuck you, Judas.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 8:38 pm
  • Here we go, slugfest underway.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 8:39 pm
  • Hot Damm! I take back all I said walein about Doubles > HRs lol.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:39 pm
  • Or yard-by-yard.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 8:39 pm
  • YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    YF October 7, 2007, 8:39 pm
  • Well at least Westbrook has some empty bases to play with now.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 8:40 pm
  • With the boot on the jugular you keep pushing – none of this letting him up now, we only have one out, lets chase him.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:40 pm
  • YES! This is one of those moments that call for a Major League Pedro Cerrano balls of steel gesture as you run back to the dugout.
    5-3 Yanks. And it is still on.

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 8:40 pm
  • Sucks with the fly-out but at least we got a decent hit; our bats are getting on the ball now.
    Sadly that’s happening right when they’re getting ready to pull him.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:42 pm
  • Jeter gets the Little League treatment from his teammates “nice try…get em next time Jeet”

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 8:43 pm
  • I hate to be a fairweather fan, but shut up.
    I like the moves by Jeter and Abreu making quick outs. Keep Westbrook in the game as long as possible.
    I also enjoy watching Phil Hughes pitch.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 8:44 pm
  • // the Twins are talking with the Sox about Santana, and want Coco Crisp, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz //
    If it were just Crisp and Lester, in a heartbeat. All three? It would be painful to let Jon & Clay go, but the Sox should still do it. Santana and Beckett in the same rotation? Devastating.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 8:44 pm
  • “Tony Massarotti is reporting that the Twins are talking with the Sox about Santana, and want Coco Crisp, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz.”
    I’m awfully tempted there. Buchholz has a chance to be great, but Santana and Beckett 1 and 2… drool…

    Tyrel SF October 7, 2007, 8:46 pm
  • Wow. What was that? It did a spiral.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 8:46 pm
  • Great minds, Hudson.

    Tyrel SF October 7, 2007, 8:46 pm
  • Bah, Jeter you should’ve had that.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:46 pm
  • Dont forget, after giving up Clay and Lester you’d still only be left with Santana under contract for 1 year…

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 8:47 pm
  • Sweet. Keep em coming Yanks. Byrd should be an easy one too on Thursday. Which means CC wraps the series up for Cleveland, giving him but one appearance against the SOX.
    It’s about time you pulled your weight in the East, Yankee chokers.

    Presently a real big YF October 7, 2007, 8:47 pm
  • Don’t look now, but Bizarro Jhonny just led off with a single.
    It should be illegal to spell your name that way. It causes brain damage just to read it.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 8:47 pm
  • Lead-off single for Peralta. Party on the mound for Hughes.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 8:47 pm
  • I wonder if we’ll see a different Joba (sans midges)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:48 pm
  • Hey Indians how about we spread the wealth of those DPS huh? Don’t make us carry all the weight!

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:49 pm
  • Job-ug I call him now.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 8:49 pm
  • Wouldnt it be cooler if the Midges showed up as soon as Joba hit the mound?

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 8:49 pm
  • I would be awfully torn about giving up Buchholz. I know we are talking about Santana, but Buchholz may have to be one of those untouchable kids.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 8:49 pm
  • With the way Hughs is pitching do you take him into the 7th? and Make Joba only pitch the 8th (or come into the 7th if needed?). I mean with Joba warming I assume he’ll come in the 7th, but Hughs is pitching well (shouldn’t you run with it?)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:50 pm
  • I may go with Joba in the 7th, perhaps make Mo pitch a two inning save.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 8:51 pm
  • No, Joba for 2

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 8:52 pm
  • I think for the Sox you have to remember that you probably (haven’t been following closely so correct me if I’m wrong) Schilling leaving. Perhaps Dice-K warms up to the USA pitching rotation but all the same I always felt the Sox offense saved him more times than he saved the offense.
    Thus, as good as Bucholtz is, having the 1-2 of Santana and Beckett is powerful (and eats some innings).
    But, good point on Santana only having one year – might be hard to give up so much to only control a person for a year (and potentially lose him)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:53 pm
  • Here’s how I look at the idea of the Santana deal (highly, highly speculative, given the source).
    1. With Ellsbury rising, Crisp is completely expendable.
    2. Lester, I’m sorry to say, is looking like a #4 or #5 starter at best, completely replaceable.
    3. So the deal is, to my way of thinking, boils down essentially to Buchholz for Santana.
    Which is a deal I would consider. If the Sox could get Santana to agree to 2-3 extra years, I’d do it in a hearbeat.
    Buccholz may prove to be great, but he is essentially unproven. Whatever he might become, the very best scenario for him is he becomes Santana’s. So it’s only money and years that we’re really talking about.
    Entirely hypothetically.
    (Oh, wait, is there a game on?)

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 8:53 pm
  • dknyc, no way I’d make the deal unless we get an extension worked out first – I figured that was a given.

    Tyrel SF October 7, 2007, 8:55 pm
  • Well Rob, I’m sure the Sox would make sure they could resign him before trading for him, but it’s still a ton to give up. Regardless, it looks like Santana will get traded in the off-season, based on how the entire Twins organization is acting.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 8:55 pm
  • Typo ^^^: Santana’s equal

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 8:55 pm
  • “(Oh, wait, is there a game on?)”
    Not really it was just trot and Hughes playing an odd version of catch. lol.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:55 pm
  • Is Santana repped by Boras?

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 8:56 pm
  • HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHES.

    YF October 7, 2007, 8:56 pm
  • Tribe strands Jjhhonnyy.

    Hudson October 7, 2007, 8:56 pm
  • I understand possibly trading for him, just not sure how much I like the thought of giving up Buchholz.
    Yes, Beck and Santana are a hell of 1-2 punch to drool over.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 8:57 pm
  • So much for Soriano “Protecting his House” (Wrigley)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:57 pm
  • Hard to believe that Rogah’s hammy may have saved the Yanks tonight.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 8:57 pm
  • I don’t know how many football fans there are here – I always loved those commercials on “getting your story straight” come playoff time. You know Steeler fans sitting around wondering who this Rothlesberger guy is, etc.
    I always thought they should do that with baseball – “Igawa, he’s our Dice-K!”

    Rob October 7, 2007, 8:59 pm
  • I agree with what Hudson is saying. Everyone is pumped about Buchholz, but we’re talking about Johan-fucking-Santana. A 1-2 punch of Santana-Beckett would make the Sox the team to beat for the next several years.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 8:59 pm
  • Come on give us an insurance HR A-Rod

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:00 pm
  • Agree Atheose.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:00 pm
  • Anyone here have knowledge of whether or not a potential Twin trade partner will have a window to negotiate an extension with Santana?

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 9:01 pm
  • Cant believe they’ve got Westbrook in pitching to Alex with their pen here. I call BS on Wedge. Hope Alex makes ’em pay.

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:01 pm
  • Also, I’m very happy that the Twins are ready to trade Santana now. It pretty much means the Yankees won’t get him, because I really don’t think they’ll get rid of all their talent.

    Atheose October 7, 2007, 9:01 pm
  • Ugly but good – whatever gets A-Rod out of his funk.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:01 pm
  • inf. single. lucky for the indians. that ball was right over the plate.

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:02 pm
  • Jo-bug warming up.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:02 pm
  • “Buccholz may prove to be great, but he is essentially unproven. Whatever he might become, the very best scenario for him is he becomes Santana’s.”
    I think Buchholz will be very good, but the chances of him becoming Santana good are very very low. Santana is the most dominant pitcher since vintage Pedro, with less innings on his arm and a better body.

    Tyrel SF October 7, 2007, 9:02 pm
  • Hudson, so the Sox have Beckett and Santana (a mighty powerful duo, to be sure. Think Carmona and Sabathia this year, except it’s already in the bank). And then Dice-K, who, come on, is still a wild card. Who are the others? Wakefield and Tavarez? That worked out okay this year, but would it work again?
    I can’t see the Sox trading away 2 locks from their 2008 rotation.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:02 pm
  • Deep down as happy as I would be to have Santana I’m happy (strangely same as you Atherose) that we probably wouldn’t do it – for the sake of our home grown talent.
    It’s a nice change of pace and we might miss out on Santana – but might ensure we can get someone else later on (or next year) once we have a solidified base of “our own” to slot a high-profile Free Agent into. Rather than our traditional meliu of flailing around with bags of cash hoping we hit someone good.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:04 pm
  • Jorge!

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:06 pm
  • Keep piling on the hits, baby.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:06 pm
  • Good call – bring in Minky to protect the lead. But Torre still deserves to be fired right? (sorry I think he deserves another year).

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:06 pm
  • I think Hughes is getting a blowjob in the clubhouse now….and i’m not entirely sure i don’t want to sign up next.
    Sports do incredibly wierd things to me.

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 9:07 pm
  • Didnt think I’d ever hear the words “Pinch hitting for Giambi, Doug Mientiewicz”

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 9:07 pm
  • Who the fuck is that? Is that Mientkiewicz? What. The. Fuck. I’m not listening with the sound on.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:07 pm
  • Minky for Giambi to bunt? Meh.

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:07 pm
  • “I can’t see the Sox trading away 2 locks from their 2008 rotation.”
    I can. After all, we already traded “Jeter for Pettitte and Brosius,” right?
    ;^)

    Tyrel SF October 7, 2007, 9:07 pm
  • Well, he did the job. Now you’ve actually got defense. I guess I can’t be too horrified with the move. You still let Giambi hit there, though. Seriously.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:07 pm
  • Is this cameraman going to become like the NY version of Bartman? He can never come up to bat or do anything without that being mentioned.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:08 pm
  • Good bunt, if that’s what you insist on. Not crazy bout it, tho.
    Matsui getting IBBed now. We’ll take that.
    And take the Santana talk to the Sox thread below. Please.

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:08 pm
  • Wow. Why not Betemit for the at-bat, but then Mient for defense…
    oh, sac bunt. i guess he’s gonna bunt.

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 9:09 pm
  • I wonder how smart this is putting Matsui on. The Youngins have been pulling their weight – though I think Cano’s more of a free-swinger (reminds me of Soriano when I wanted to throw something at the TV)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:09 pm
  • Wow

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 9:10 pm
  • YES!

    Presently a real big YF October 7, 2007, 9:10 pm
  • ROBBIE CANO! DONCHA KNOW!

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:10 pm
  • THANKS TROT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:10 pm
  • thank you baseball gods.

    twnty7 (yf) October 7, 2007, 9:10 pm
  • Wedge pays big time for the ibb. Cabrera in dp position couldn’t get to the grounder from Cano. Woulda been right at him in normal slot. Of course, Cano wouldn’t have been up…..

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:11 pm
  • Alright Damon lets make it 9-3, bring him home.
    Sadly, I wonder if this makes Stein. think his meddling helps. I figure they could’ve put this together without the threat over Torre – but now it’s impossible to know.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:13 pm
  • Robi does not remind me of Soriano. Soriano was often all or nothing, but I think Robi is a much more sound hitter. I’ve learned to trust him in these positions.
    But yes, the Youngins are stepping up and making the Yankee future look bright.

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 9:13 pm
  • This is kind of what I was hoping for. With the ALCS starting on Friday I hope these two keeping hitting each other in the chops for the rest of the week.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:15 pm
  • So who do you think Wedge goes with for Game 4 (just wondering).

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:16 pm
  • JOBA! Save the gnats.

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:17 pm
  • It was announced that Paul Byrd was the pitcher for tomorrow.
    The real question is who do the Yanks throw?

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:18 pm
  • Now I wonder, do the Yankees DL Clemens and put in Kennedy for the remainder of the series (yes, I know I am getting ahead of myself).

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:18 pm
  • So nice being able to watch the game without the bugs – besides their impact it was just ugly to watch (literally – I kept having to change the channel)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:18 pm
  • Good question Andrew. If the Yanks were to make the ALCS then Clemens is out for that series under the new rules I believe.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:20 pm
  • Look at that curve! I cannot wait for next year.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:21 pm
  • Man its fun watching him work when he’s on. I keep dreaming of next year with 7-8 innings of that once a week.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:21 pm
  • Hughes preening like a peacock after each K.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:22 pm
  • AndrewYF – Great minds think alike!

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:22 pm
  • My bad, that being Joba pitching.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:22 pm
  • Another curve! Joba is freaking amazing.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:23 pm
  • Wow he knows what he wants – lots of head-shaking (hope it works!)

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:24 pm
  • What about having Joba in a trade package for Santana?

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:25 pm
  • Goodness. Joba is just nasty tonight. We need to find new words to describe unhittable. Some of those breaking balls were just unbelievable.

    Carlos October 7, 2007, 9:25 pm
  • I really cannot stand this singer.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:26 pm
  • Rob SF – Bwhahahaha. If I’m Cashman and George seriously entertains that idea I find a way to shut down all NYC communication for however long it takes him to convince/drug him out of that opinion.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:27 pm
  • “What about having Joba in a trade package for Santana?”
    Absolutely no deal unless there is a guaranteed 48-hour window for discussing an extension. I think I have maintained this earlier. The window is the kicker.
    Am I the only one unimpressed by Ronan Tynan?

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:27 pm
  • Great work by Joba.
    But the Bob Sheppard impersonator has to go, and he can take Jughead Tynan, the Awful Irish Tenor with him.

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:27 pm
  • Rob, Keeping in mind that both Joba and Buchholz are very young pitchers that do appear to have a lot of promise. I mean a lot. But both are young and unproven.
    Both have not faced a lot of hitters that have allowed teams to make changes in appraoch to go after them.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:30 pm
  • I can’t stand Tynan. Get someone else out there to sing every once in awhile.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:31 pm
  • Jensen Lewis? I think we have a sidetable from that place. SF?

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:32 pm
  • Rob SF – true true. I guess I just love the fact we’re holding onto some players (it’s so new!) I don’t want to nix it before its taken root in the organization.
    Maybe I’m alone in that sentiment (it seems others would trade him for Santana with an extension). I guess I just feel he could be that dominant with his stuff and a chance to work. I guess it’s a question of trading him now or seeing how he works.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:32 pm
  • YF October 7, 2007, 9:33 pm
  • Does he have a brother named Castro Convertible?

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:35 pm
  • Half of the furniture in my apartment is from Jensen-Lewis…7th Ave and 15th St!

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 9:37 pm
  • Yikes. Who is this guy?

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:38 pm
  • I understand Rob. I always think of Bagwell whenever we trade away a very good prospect. Hate to think that we could lose a playoff series to a kid we had. We would never hear the end of it.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:38 pm
  • Well. Jensen Lewis can deal. That might be a problem down the road.

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:38 pm
  • The one positive to Frank TV commercials is that it keeps me from seeing Dane Cook again.
    I’ll take that trade.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:38 pm
  • Yanks countering with Murray Moss here in the 8th?

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:39 pm
  • Frank does a good Madden and Bush…but thats about it

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 9:40 pm
  • You Yank fan’s should not be thinking about what it will take to get a Santana, as the holes in your lineup do not support unloading talent. Even for a Santana.
    Think about it.
    1st?
    CF?
    Matsui may be breaking down.
    Jeter has two years max at SS because he plays the position so poorly
    C?
    Is Arod moving on? if he does, who’s at 3rd?
    And if George replaces the lames the team payroll goes past $250m, what with all the dumped salaries of Giambi, Damon, Mussina, et el.
    Lot of work to be done in NY. Could take years.

    Presently a real big YF October 7, 2007, 9:41 pm
  • Fastball, breaking pitch….fastball?

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:41 pm
  • Yes he did

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:42 pm
  • Joba throwing more of those slow hooks this series than i’ve seen before. It’s wicked.
    Talking about pitchers with huge speed differentials: I think Pedro was/is the king of that game.

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:42 pm
  • I thought Frank did an excellent Jack Nicholson. I really was fooled, of course, I hadn’t seen the other versions. He did a good Robin Williams too, but he was far too fat to fool me that time. Granted Nicholson is not that fat either, but I just thought he’d let himself go.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:43 pm
  • Thankfully Cano has hit tonight. His defense this eveing has been sketchy.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:43 pm
  • Agree YF…Pedro had that down pat.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:44 pm
  • “Lot of work to be done in NY. Could take years.”
    Yeah. We’ve been hearing that since 2004. The Yankees have done okay.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:44 pm
  • DP. That Joba does it all.
    Santana? Stop getting ahead of yourselves people. Let’s get this season over–how about this game first—before firing up the hot stove for fruitless, inane conversation.

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:45 pm
  • “Lot of work to be done in NY. Could take years.”
    Maybe the Pirates and Royals should look at how the Yanks work through projects.

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:47 pm
  • Difference this time is the amount of payroll that should be dumped this turn. Granted George does not seem to care much about losses but if he dumps at least those three (which Cashman probably will) he is looking at a wicked payroll tax for 2008.
    There are limits to any lunacy.

    Presently a real big YF October 7, 2007, 9:47 pm
  • inane or insane?

    Rob SF October 7, 2007, 9:48 pm
  • I don’t like these turn of events.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 9:51 pm
  • Nice of him to gloss over Nixon’s error when talking about how great a night he’s had…

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 9:52 pm
  • YEAH!

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:53 pm
  • Never seen him hit like that…but then again I dont watch much U of Nebraska baseball…

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 9:53 pm
  • Joba’s still in, with another game to play tommorrow.
    Going to Mo might be a better move.

    SoxFan October 7, 2007, 9:53 pm
  • Inane & insane. Save the baseless speculation for the offseason, or at least a more appropriate thread!

    YF October 7, 2007, 9:55 pm
  • Granted the guy has only pitched like 3 innings this year, but is it just me or does Joba look more and more vulnerable as he pitches?
    Looks like a decent reliever at this stage. A starter, not so much.

    Presently a Real Big YF October 7, 2007, 9:55 pm
  • Wait – why exactly is their closer in here?

    Rob October 7, 2007, 9:57 pm
  • For a minute there I thought they said “Randy Johnson”, instead of Ernie Johnson. I would pay money to see Randy Johnson providing postgame coverage of the Yankees.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 10:00 pm
  • “Granted the guy has only pitched like 3 innings this year, but is it just me or does Joba look more and more vulnerable as he pitches?”
    I have a feeling it’s always just you. Now run along and hang out with your Red Sox fan friends. What no friends?

    Nick-YF October 7, 2007, 10:01 pm
  • I’ll be curious (I live in OH) to hear talk radio on this choice to use their closer in this situation. Yes he hasn’t worked, but generally they hate this guy (gives up to much to be a closer – constantly causing them to lose it even as he saves a game). Plus he would need to pitch tomorrow if the game was close.
    I guess it doesn’t matter, but if they need him tomorrow I wonder if this decision isn’t second-guessed.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 10:04 pm
  • “For a minute there I thought they said “Randy Johnson”, instead of Ernie Johnson. I would pay money to see Randy Johnson providing postgame coverage of the Yankees.”
    Ha!
    Torre to NY fans: “Gottcha! You thought I was going to pitch Farmsworth!”

    SeanYF October 7, 2007, 10:11 pm
  • Mo in. 1 down.

    YF October 7, 2007, 10:12 pm
  • Oh man if he had brought in Farnsworth – I would have loved to hear the response of the fans.

    Rob October 7, 2007, 10:13 pm
  • Asdrubal Ks. 2 down.

    YF October 7, 2007, 10:14 pm
  • Yay!

    Rob October 7, 2007, 10:15 pm
  • Hafner looks at one on the corner. Vintage Mo. Get that man a new contract!!!
    Whattaya say now, George?

    YF October 7, 2007, 10:16 pm
  • Mariano is something special.
    The game ball goes to Hughes tonight. Great effort by the youngsters.

    Nick-YF October 7, 2007, 10:16 pm
  • Kudos to the Yanks. It’s about time you did not choke in a big game. Please take the next one too. Thanks

    Presently a Real Big YF October 7, 2007, 10:24 pm
  • Wang it is for tomorrow…

    dknyc October 7, 2007, 10:32 pm
  • Clemens may be replaced for the rest of the series, says Abraham.

    AndrewYF October 7, 2007, 11:30 pm
  • By who? (or is it whom, don’t remember)
    So it’ll be:
    Wang
    Pettitte
    Hughes?
    Mussina?

    no sleep til brooklyn SF October 7, 2007, 11:50 pm
  • So i just got back from the bronx and I was wondering about the announcing for tonights game. Did Carey get excited about the Yanks big moments like he did for the indians in Cleveland or was he still a homer for the tribe?

    Sam-YF October 7, 2007, 11:52 pm
  • My goodness no, the announcers kept fellating the amazing breakthroughs of the Yankees. Hittin’, pitchin’, scorin’ runs- all pro-Yankees, Indians were left for dead.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF October 8, 2007, 12:00 am
  • so the announcers are just bad, get excited about the home team etc. I guess that dulls their terrible anti-yankee performances last week.

    Sam-YF October 8, 2007, 12:14 am
  • Just back from the game – a couple points:
    1) Torre indisputably mismanaged the bullpen. An 8-3 lead going into the 7th with Hughes pitching very well. You either put Hughes back out there and don’t sub in Joba until 2 guys get on or you put in one of the other guys (Veras or even Fransworth) with the same length leash. If Torre believes that he can not put anyone out to start an inning with a 5-run lead other than Joba or Mo, then it makes every one else in that bullpen a mop-up guy. It is ridiculous. You play to win today’s game of course, but keeping Hughes in or taking Veras or even freaking Farnsworth with a short leash would have been the right thing to do. As it is Joba threw his career high 38 pitches and noticeably dropped off in velocity and movement in the 8th inning, which he barely escaped. I am not a Torre-hater, but I also don’t think the guy is perfect. He is an exceptional clubhouse manager and was the perfect guy for this year – most other managers would have panicked long before 21-29. But he is not a great in-game manager (especially since Zimmer left and took aggressive play with him) and he is a terrible bullpen manager. He proved the latter yet again tonight in my view and we will be thinking about this tomorrow night as we get into the later innings. We will need Wang to pitch well and for the bats to go to town on Byrd to avoid regretting Torre’s burning of Joba tonight.
    2. Not surprised to see the rougher edges of this site’s sox fans coming out for tonight’s game, seemingly salivating over a possible sweep of the Yanks with comments like “Chokey McChokester” for A-Rod and opining on how to order one’s multiple layers of schaudenfreude. And am particularly pleased to see the floppy-shoed one return with his new name “Presently a Real Big YF”. Hey PRBYF, you could have done a muc better concealment job than using your 2-year old “SOX” and house-plant-intellect put-downs of Yankee fans. Since you are back, please explain again how it is that Mussina is never caught by Posada, how Fisk and Yogi died decades ago, how we are still playing in the deadball era that actually ended almost a century ago, how Posada never started in an all-star game though he has started in two, and how the Sox were going to sweep NY twice though ended up losing 5 of 6 instead.
    3. This series is a complete microchosm of the Yankee 2007 season: Game 1 = April (can hit but can’t pitch); Game 2 = May (can pitch but can’t hit); Game 3 = June/July (scuffling until the young arms bail out the older arms and the bats get hot). I only hope that Game 4 (and 5???) = August/September.

    IronHorse (yf) October 8, 2007, 12:15 am
  • IH, i was annoyed with using Joba for 2 as well and would have liked to see Hughes start the 7th. My only guess is that they had him up and ready during the sixth and thus had to bring him in for the 7th. I think this is a result of one of the few immutable Joba Rules still in place – they cant have him warm up more than once in a game. I think Phil easily had another in him. Who knows. im happy we won and we will worry about tomorrow tomorrow (or today as the case may be now).

    Sam-YF October 8, 2007, 12:23 am
  • Joba’s thrown 63 pitches in the last two games, that’s a lot for one team to look at in such a close timeframe. Indians might be able to pick up his tricks and hit him, especially if he’s getting tired.
    I don’t think throwing Joba for 38 pitches over 2 innings was a good move.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF October 8, 2007, 12:29 am
  • Sam, I think you are right re: the if-he-warms-he-will-be-used rule and I just think it is stupid at this stage. The much larger issues in my view are a) do we need to use him, especially in a game where if we can hold the 5-run lead we will have to play again tomorrow (and back up a starter who is on short-rest); and b) the issue ntsb raises – i.e. you show the other team as little of the guy as you need to.
    When the score was 5-3 and the Yankees were still batting, I was talking with friends about whether you send Hughes back out there, but when it became 8-3 it should have been a no-brainer. There is no way he should have started the 7th. And even if you stick to the rule re: warm-ups, then you start one of the other b-pen guys in the 8th and turn over to Mo IF NECESSARY should 1-2 guys get on in that inning.
    The bigger issue for me is what it says about the rest of the bullpen. Hell, why not just bring up 2 other guys who can eat innings when you are losing by 7 or more innings as mop up guys, have Mo and Joba as the only b-pen guys you will use in an important situation, and use the rest of the roster slots for bats?
    I am going to the extreme here to make the point – Torre is treating the b-pen like that when he indicates to every other pitcher that they can’t be trusted with a 5-run lead to *start off* an inning.
    Anyway…yeah, we won tonight and that’s great. We’ll see how tomorrow goes. I sense in a tight game we will be seeing Vizcaino or Veras and I would have much rather seen them tonight.

    IronHorse (yf) October 8, 2007, 12:44 am
  • “Indians might be able to pick up his tricks and hit him, especially if he’s getting tired.”
    You don’t ‘pick up’ on a slider like that, especially when it’s backed by a 98mph fastball and a 78mph curveball he can throw for strikes at any time. He’s not a tricky pitcher. When he’s on, he is virtually unhittable.
    The reason he struggled in the 2nd inning was because he was gassed. Did you see when his velocity dropped from consistent 98s to more around the 94-96 level? But that was just a leading indicator. There is no ‘picking up tricks’ with a guy who locates 98mph fastballs, throws a slider for strikes or completely out of the zone whenever he wants, and now, apparently, throws a biting curve for strikes too.
    That said, I doubt he’s used today. Not even a seasoned vet out of the bullpen would be available, much less a 22-year old golden-armed rookie.

    AndrewYF October 8, 2007, 12:46 am
  • Don’t worry, Byrd’s up. This series is going back to Cleveland.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF October 8, 2007, 12:46 am
  • We get it, Joba is the second coming. But the second coming is getting tired.

    no sleep til brooklyn SF October 8, 2007, 12:47 am
  • I realize I just expressed my deep baseball-love for the guy. And I was very concerned with the velocity drop in the second inning – not just for the game itself, but for Joba’s arm. Sudden, 5mph drops in velocity can turn into arm injuries in an instant.
    I was just trying to head off the “once hitters get a look at him they’ll figure him out” crap. I think it’s been shown time and time again the only way they’ll hit him is if he’s running on fumes.

    AndrewYF October 8, 2007, 12:54 am
  • “There is no ‘picking up tricks’ with a guy who locates 98mph fastballs, throws a slider for strikes or completely out of the zone whenever he wants, and now, apparently, throws a biting curve for strikes too.”
    Andrew, this is something that gets said a lot but I think is only partly true and it rings of a lot of hubris. We all know for instance that the team with which Mo has had the hardest time over the years is with the RS – and the reason is becasue of familiarity that their hitters have with him after so many match-ups, even though he has an “unhittable” cutter.
    It is true that Joba is devastaing when on. It’s also true that as with any pitcher, he will be less “on” when he is gassed and that professional hitters that see him little will have a harder time than those who see him regularly. This has nothing ot do with Joba – it is the same for every pitcher.
    The real quesiton is whether this was sound post-season bullpen management and it simply was not. The end of your comment (“I doubt that he’s used today”) is the critical point. I doubt he is too and, if he is, I doubt he’ll be very sharp. And the fact that we blew that sharpness or took it out of the equation altogether when we had a 5-run lead late in the game is what I think is crazy on Torre’s part. Any other pitcher could have had a tight leash, but at least send someone else out there. If not, when will we send them? When we are winning by 10, losing by 10, or when Joba’s and Mo’s arms have fallen off?

    IronHorse (yf) October 8, 2007, 1:04 am
  • Don’t worry about my arm.
    http://www.jobachamberlain.com

    Joba Chamberlain October 8, 2007, 1:57 am
  • “…particularly pleased to see the floppy-shoed one return…”
    good call IH..you know, i was thinking the same thing when reading his comments: smells a lot like clownboy’s back in the house…honk, honk
    he can change his name, but he’s still a floppy-shoed fool….

    dc October 8, 2007, 7:21 am
  • Wow, Joba doesn’t even know his own birthday! At http://www.jobachamberlain.com he lists his DOB as “9-23-95”. That means he’s only 12 years old.

    Atheose October 8, 2007, 8:03 am
  • “The Yankees can replace Roger Clemens on the roster tomorrow. It’s a new rule. The catch is he would not be available for the ALCS. They have four choices: Kennedy, Ramirez, Britton or Villone.”
    This according to Pete A. over at LoHud.
    Kennedy would obviously be my first choice provided he is healthy. Originally they said he could be ready for the ALCS if needed, so I guess we wait and see. As for the other 3, I certainly hope the time does not come today that we have to rely on ANY of them.

    John - YF (Trisk) October 8, 2007, 8:47 am
  • Wang is pitching tonight on 4 days rest. Part of me wants the series to go to a game 5 just so the Indians and Yanks have to use up their best pitching. For instance, with Wang pitching tonight and Pettitte pitching a Game 5, that means they would have to throw Clemens and Mussina in games 1 and 2 of the ALCS (though possibly Kennedy if Clemens is unavailable).
    Likewise, a Game 5 in Cleveland would use up Sabathia, leaving him to pitch Game 2 of the ALCS on 4-days rest, or Game 3 on 6-days rest.
    Sweeping the Angels has really set up Boston in a favorable position going into the ALCS.

    Atheose October 8, 2007, 9:36 am
  • Trisk, if they have to choose between those 4, I think they HAVE to go with Kennedy. None of the others give the Yankees a good chance of winning, whereas Kennedy has been pretty solid sofar (though who knows in the postseason?)
    I think Yankee fans everywhere would kill themselves if Ramirez, Britton or Villone started a game in the ALCS.

    Atheose October 8, 2007, 9:47 am
  • Ath, I agree. I just don’t know if Kennedy is ready to go, that’s the issue. Also Kennedy has thrown a ton of innings this season, it will be interesting to see if he is added and if he does eventually start a game if needed. Cashman had commented a while back that there was no real number of innings limit (within reason) but I imagine his health and long term availabilty is the #1 area of concern.

    John - YF (Trisk) October 8, 2007, 10:12 am
  • If Clemens is out and Kennedy is not available (and possibly even if Kennedy is available), I think they start Mussina and Hughes, not Mussina and anyone else.

    IronHorse (yf) October 8, 2007, 10:20 am
  • And I wouldn’t mind at all having Hughes put in that position by the way. The kid’s been solid so far in October in two bullpen outings, including a pressure-packed one last night, and due to the long layoff following his hamstring injury, has said he is feeling stronger than he normally would in September (having never played in October). And more generally, as much as I want NY to go all the way this year, I see this as a very big re-building year and experience-gaining year for this new crop of young pitchers. Hughes should have his pitching-in-Boston-in-the-postseason ice-breaker sooner or later and I was happy to see him come in last night. It was more than a little symbolic of what I hope will be the end of the buy-old-guys-on-the-downside-of-their-career Yankees and the beginning of a better run club by Cashman.
    But of course, this is all moot – the Yankees need to get there first and the odds are still against that.

    IronHorse (yf) October 8, 2007, 10:25 am
  • I just want to echo the ire of other re: Torre’s use of the bullpen last night. Five run lead, Hughes dealing, facing 3 straight must-win games, you simply cannot hang Chamberlain out there for 40 pitches when you’re pretty sure you will need him in games 4 and 5. On top of that, he started warming at the start of the 6th. I really do love Joe but his bullpen management is INSANE! I’d like to see him back next near, but with an additional coach in the dugout (appointed by the Front Office) whose job it is to manage the ‘pen.
    That said, it was absolutely heartwarming to see Phil Franchise in there just DEALING under the most dire of circumstances. Maybe the highlight of the year so far.
    Also: I think we win tonight. I say Wanger bounces back (how many pitches did he throw the other night? Anyway he’s the kind of pitcher where being tired might help him), and the Yanks tee off on Bizarro Kelsey Grammar for the W. The goal of course is to win by hook or crook, but best case scenario we can pile up enough runs so Torre can maybe lay off Joba.

    Mark (YF) October 8, 2007, 10:57 am
  • Ironhorse, you’re definitely right about this being a “rebuilding year”. The Yankees have relied heavily on their farm this season, especially with pitching. The future of Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy looks very promising, and the fact that we may get to see all three (if Kennedy takes Rogah’s place) is exciting… if you’re a Yankee fan.
    If you’re a Sox fan like me, you’re nervous. I think the experience Hughes and Chamberlain are getting now will be valuable in the future, and help in many high-pressure situations to come (many of which will involve the Sox). Though Chamberlain cracked under pressure somewhat in Game 2, but that’s about 75% the bugs’ fault.
    All in all, I think the Yankees may give the Red Sox a run for their money next year. Though a rotation of
    Beckett
    Matsuzaka
    Wakefield/Schilling
    Buchholz
    Lester
    is pretty damn intimidating too. And that’s not even considering if the Sox land Johan Santana! Then it would look like:
    Beckett
    Santana
    Matsuzaka
    Wakefield
    ???
    Which do you think is stronger, Ironhorse? The latter is obviously more top-heavy, but in a 162-game season you need to be well rounded.

    Atheose October 8, 2007, 10:57 am
  • Folks: I don’t think Joe mismanaged anything last night. He had Hughes ready when he needed him, but didn’t want to push him too far given his work in the previous game. It’s a do-or-die game. Joba tired a bit but did the job. And Mo was perfect. I don’t get the complaints. And Joba, wow, with those three pitches…gotta love the idea of him as a starter. Woof.

    YF October 8, 2007, 11:00 am
  • Yeah Mark, I hate Torre’s bullpen management. Honestly (I hope I don’t sound like I’m trolling), I think Torre is one of the most overrated managers in baseball. He’s been extremely successful (with the Yankees), but most 9-year-olds could win with the players Steinbrenner has supplied him over the years.

    Atheose October 8, 2007, 11:05 am
  • I think the idea, YF, was that if Joba had only pitched 1 inning last night (rather than going back out for the 2nd inning with a 5-run lead) he would be available tonight. As things are now, it’s a guarantee that he won’t pitch tonight. If there’s a close game tonight in the 6th or 7th inning, who does Torre go to bridge the gap to Mo?

    Atheose October 8, 2007, 11:06 am
  • I agree YF. Its like looking for something to complain about on what should be a great win. What if Joe lets hughes go out there and he gets beat up or brings farsnworth or Viz in for the 8th and those guys act like themselves. Now he’s done a bad job managing his pen.
    Also, Sox fans whats up with this Santana talk? Is there anything at all to back this up or is it just wishful dreaming at this point? for the record i think he stays in Minn this offseason.

    Sam-YF October 8, 2007, 11:07 am
  • Sam, yesterday Tony Massarotti reported on WEEI that the Twins said they would give up Santana for Buchholz, Lester and Delcarmen/Hansen (one or the other). It’s pretty early to talk about stuff like that (we’re in the middle of the fricken playoffs), but it intrigued me a lot.
    As a YF, which rotation scares you more? A top-heavy one with Beckett-Santana-Matsuzaka, or a more balanced one?

    Atheose October 8, 2007, 11:11 am
  • Also Sam, Santana has made his unhappiness with the Twins organization well-known, and it seems extremely likely that he won’t resign with them after the ’08 season. So do the Twins keep him and put all their eggs in the 2007 basket, or trade him for a ton of talent? It would be amazingly wasteful if they kept him and he didn’t resign, considering how much they could get for him.
    I mean honestly, if I were the Twins GM and I had to choose, I would dump him this offseason.

    Atheose October 8, 2007, 11:14 am
  • Torre did not mismanage the bullpen fellas, I hate to say it. Nobody here is harder on Torre then me, but in this case he made the right move. What happens if the Indians start to come back off say Viz, then Mo has to go the extra batters rather then Joba. Regardless of how dominant he (Joba) has been you always want your closer fresh if you can help it. Plus it’s a must win, you can’t think about tomorrow until you get there.

    John - YF (Trisk) October 8, 2007, 11:17 am
  • Shit, I got part of it wrong–they want Coco Crisp, not Delcarmen/Hansen. My mistake.

    Atheose October 8, 2007, 11:17 am
  • Whether or not Torre mismanaged the bullpen is not a question of fact but of opinion. There are two different ones in ths thread. Mine – and it has absolutely nothing to do with looking for something to complain about – is that he absolutely mismanaged it. At what point would it be dumb to bring Joba in to start the 7th? With a 10-run lead? There has to be some point at which you say, I will try one of the other guys with Joba waiting in the wings because I want to win this game AND have my best possible guns ready for tomorrow’s game. I say a 5-run lead with Hughes throwing first-pich curveball strikes and moving high-fastballs for K’s is about the time when you should be able to say exactly this. Anytime it will take more than a GS for the other team to tie and it is late in the game (AND your current picher has looked very very strong), you SHOULD be willing to go to the second tier in the pen while the first tier stands ready to come in.
    If you disagree, then tell me, at what point would it have been OK to put someone in before Joba? 7-runs? 10? 15?

    IronHorse (yf) October 8, 2007, 11:25 am
  • How reliable is that WEEI report? Why would the twins front office be telling a Boston reporter their trade demands?

    Sam-YF October 8, 2007, 11:27 am
  • I don’t know how reliable it is Sam, but it’s credible enough to at laest give it some speculation. Which rotation would you choose?

    Atheose October 8, 2007, 11:31 am
  • Id take any rotation with Santana in it.

    Sam-YF October 8, 2007, 11:33 am
  • “I would dump him this offseason.”
    When you have an arm like Santana on your team you don’t “Dump” you trade for max value. They have already stated they are going to try and re-sign Hunter and move Santana. They feel that they will get a higher return now, rather then at the trade deadline in ’08.
    My thinking is that Santana is a Met next season. I was going to put together a story last week, but I have been super busy. Here’s what I think:
    -Santana goes to the Mets for Reyes, an OF (Milledge or Gomez) and possibly an arm. Provided the Twins allow the Mets a 72 hour window to negotiate an extension.
    -The Mets then make a huge push for A-Rod. Filling their void at SS. Even if they don’t sign him they can get a guy like Omar Vizquel to be a stop gap until Orlando Cabrera/Edgar Renteria become a FA’s in ’08/’09.
    -Sound Crazy? Not really. Reyes is under contract through 2010 with a club option in 2011. Here’s how his contract breaks out: 07:$2.5M, 08:$4M, 09:$5.75M, 10:$9M,
    11:$11M club option ($0.5M buyout). That’s the kind of contract the Twins love, long term and cheap.
    -Minaya has to make a splash after last season’s debacle. This is the way to do it. Not a Met fan in the world can hold that trade against him, it’s win-win. Also by making a push for A-Rod he shows the fans, win or lose, that he is trying to make this team better.

    John - YF (Trisk) October 8, 2007, 11:34 am
  • IH, I guess it depends on the flow of the game, not runs. Worry about tomorrow, tomorrow. There’s no today without a win yesterday. Whatever he did worked and the end result is really all that matters right now. The bullpen is rested with the exception of Hughes, Joba and Mo. All hands on deck.

    John - YF (Trisk) October 8, 2007, 11:38 am
  • wow. hot stove really humming. i don’t see the mets dealing reyes, period. and arod isn’t on the market until he opts out. who on earth knows where santana goes. could be anywhere, and anytime.
    ih: i think hughes had reached his limit, so the issue about lead size is irrelevant. torre wanted a pitcher then. he chose the best one. smart move given the potency of cleveland and duration remaining in the game, and the sudden death situation inherent in a loss. anyhow, papers say joba can go an inning today. plus farnsy has looked good, and they have the viz and mo and moose. so, seriously, i don’t see the big issue.

    YF October 8, 2007, 11:45 am
  • “I guess it depends on the flow of the game, not runs”
    Trisk, this is why I noted how Hughes was pitching – the flow of last night’s game at the end of the 6th felt to me like NY had all the momentum (until a tiring Joba started getting hit in the 8th).
    Anyway, we can agree to disagree. I don’t want to become the Pete (SF) of this thread in reverse. I would rather have a rested Joba then a rested Vizcaino tonight but as you say, all hands on deck – and hopefully the bats come alive (struggling to find witticism re: killing one Byrd with nine bats but it isn’t coming to me) and Wang kills enough worms that who is in the bullpen becomes a non-issue.

    IronHorse (yf) October 8, 2007, 11:49 am
  • “i don’t see the mets dealing reyes, period. and arod isn’t on the market until he opts out.”
    It’s a long shot, but it sure is the perfect fit for both sides. Time will tell. As for Alex, you already know where I stand on that. Let’s just hope Wes Helms picks #13 next year so all those jerseys don’t go to waste. :)

    John - YF (Trisk) October 8, 2007, 11:50 am
  • Agreed IH.
    As for Wang, ehhhh I’ll believe it when I see it.

    John - YF (Trisk) October 8, 2007, 11:53 am
  • YF: I am trying to get off my soap box on this so as not to be a downer on our collective happiness about last night’s victory, but I don’t think you can ever say lead size is irrelevant when you are deciding who to bring in from the pen. Fine if Hughes reached his limit then you need someone from the pen. I ask again, at what size lead do you decide you’ll save Joba (and again, I am not aruing that he not pitch, just that he not be the first guy out)? Surely you don’t think that with a 10-run lead and a bullpen full of fresh arms that Torre still should have thrown Joba? Or do you? If not, then I don’t think you can say lead size is irrelevant. It’s just a question of how big a lead. And for me, 5 runs combined with the way the game was going was enough for me.
    Anyway, I was much more worked up about this last night when they brought Joba in. While I went to the game alone, I met a group of old high school friends and watched with them – and we were all decrying the move at the time. I’ll move off this now.

    IronHorse (yf) October 8, 2007, 11:57 am
  • Atheose, I agree that the prospective NY-RS pitching matchups for ’08 (which we all know will turn out not to look exactly like they do now because stuff happens) are pretty tantalizing. If we throw Johan out of the equation for now since he is such a scale-tipping wildcard (agreed with above note that you have to pick whateer rotation he would be in if one of these teams gets him), then the next things on the NY side to deal with are:
    1. Pettitte – back or not? I find it hard to believe he wouldn’t return after this year. His elbow has been perfect according to him and he has been their best and most consistent pitcher. If Torre goes Pettitte is one of the few guys whose own decision to stay or go might be affected though so I just don’t know, but I would guess he’s back regardless.
    2. Chamberlain – rotation or pen? I’ve been of the view that starters are so much harder to come by that you have to put him in the rotation. The only thing that sways me a bit in the other direction is his make-up. Notwithstanding swarming locusts, he seems to have the mental srength and attitude to be a closer. He certainly has the stuff, but it seems to me that the former is actually harder to find in closers. If they landed Santana or just decide to stick with the five they have (Wang/Pettitte/Hughes/Kennedy/Mussina) and they stay healthy, then they might still reconsider Joba as Mo-apprentice in 2008, but on the whole, I think they start out assuming a rotation spot for him since planning on Pettitte and Mussina to stay healthy is iffy at best.
    3. What does Mike Mussina have? It seems he and Matzusaka would both benefit from 6-man rotations – Mussina even more so. If he played the Manny Ramirez lay-away plan in August/September for his last year with NY, maybe he’d be strong all year, but I wouldn’t bet much on him.
    Anyway, there are so many variables that it’s hard to judge and I’ve listed only three here, but if we assume all healthy and the match-ups are:
    Beckett; Matsuzaka; Wakefield/Schilling; Buchholz; Lester
    VS.
    Wang; Pettitte; Hughes; Kennedy; Chamberlain; (Mussina?)
    then Boston clearly has the better ace and slightly more experience, but I think NY has a higher upside given how young Chamberlain, Kennedy, and Hughes all are (helped by the fact that after ’07 none of them are totally green any more). I mean, if those guys stay healthy and in the rotation, they could be leading it for the next 10+ years. Having said that, what are the odds of any threesome of pitchers staying healthy, continuing their progression from year one seamlessly, etc…not very high I would imagine.

    IronHorse (yf) October 8, 2007, 12:09 pm
  • I (grudgingly) think I agree with you, IH. The year-long success of Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain is a complete unkown, but it’s probably safe to assume that two of the three will do well (if not exceptional). Beckett is the better of the two aces, as you said, but past that there are a lot of “ifs” in the Sox rotation:
    Beckett: Odds are he’ll have another ace-like year. It may not be as good as the 2007 season, but he has looked far too consistent to NOT have another ace year.
    Matsuzaka: Was extremely inconsistent this year, bouncing between perfection and mediocrity. I believe he will have a much better 2008, however, considering all of the adjustments he’s had to deal with. I think he’ll be far more consistent and get 18 wins.
    Buchholz: Could go either way, though I have high hopes. He’s shown that he’s still young but can shine in the spotlight, and with Beckett and Daisuke ahead of him there won’t be huge expectations. I think he’ll do very well at first but slump near the end of the season, ending with an ERA in the low 4’s.
    Lester: This season his strength was far lower than it should have been, so he should improve much during the offseason. His command is still a huge problem though, but since he’s a 4/5 starter we don’t need anything spectacular. I think he’ll end up somewhere close to Buchholz; he’s had his moments where he has looked fantastic, they are just few and far between.
    Schilling/Wakefield: Despite Schilling’s arm troubles this season I think he’s realized that he can no longer overpower hitters with his fastball. He’s made the adjustment in the 2nd half, and looked fantastic pitching himself out of trouble in the ALDS. I would love to see the Sox sign him to a 1-year contract, because now that he’s made the adjustment that pitchers in their 40’s have to make he can still succeed. Unfortunately I do not see Wakefield coming back, which also means we get to free up Dougie’s spot on the roster.
    So it basically comes down to how the noobies do next year. It’s pretty amazing that 5 rotation spots for the Yanks/Sox will be held by extremely talented rookies. It’s great to see such high-spending organizations utilizing their farm systems.

    Atheose October 8, 2007, 1:06 pm

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