NY vs Tampa

So we’ve all heard by now. Following this Almost Lost Weekend, George has summoned the “advisors” to his Florida HQ to review options for improving our beloved Pinstripers. What’s encouraging here is that there seems to be some realism that the troops available to Joe Torre, despite what they’re being paid, are not up to snuff, and the problem isn’t one of “motivation” or “wanting to win.” Our guess, despite some of the whispering in the press here, is that both Joe and cash are safe. If Mel Stottlemyre goes, well, that’s hardly the end of the world (the Replacement Level Yankee Weblog has been after him for some time). Moreover, it appears something will be done to address the Yankee outfield problem. Our hope is that Cash and the Stick will be heard out at this meeting. Hope springs eternal. Even in Tampa.

44 comments… add one
  • you can fix the outfield all you want – the pitching still sucks (outside RJ some of the time). I don’t care if the Yankees put Tori Hunter, Larry Walker and Vlad out there, if they can’t stop other teams from hitting the ball, the story will be the same.

    Brad-SF June 27, 2005, 7:05 pm
  • The Yankee pitching may not be great, but the team era is lower than the Sox’s, they strike out more men per 9 innings, and opponents have pretty similar obp and ops numbers. That the Yankee pitchers are playing with the worst defense in modern history behind them exacerbates their varied problems. Fix the defense a bit, and the pitching will “improve.”

    YF June 27, 2005, 8:12 pm
  • This is probably too nitpicky, YF, but I believe its the Reds who have the worst defense in modern history. The Yankees are somewhere around fourth. But, point taken.
    Still, to me, this seems like too big a problem to fix with a trade. As it stands now, the Yankees are trotting out one plus defender (A-Hole) in their everyday lineup and even he hasn’t played very well defensively. Today the Yankee outfield consists of (from left to right) Matsui, Womack?, and Sierra. Not only is that bad, but it’s stupid.
    The thing that makes me think that a trade or two isn’t going to fix this is that the Yankee management (Torre on up) show a remarkable lack of understanding of not only what is available on the free agent market, but of what is available in their own organization and indeed on their bench.

    mattymatty June 27, 2005, 8:29 pm
  • Yeah you’re right YF, I’d much rather have the Yankees starting staff than the Soxs’. Who are you kidding? How about RJ and Pavano being third and fourth in the league in home runs allowed. How about stats in the last 20 games, not the 18 run stretch with Oakland, Seattle and the Mets. How about the fact that Boston pitchers have faced the Rangers, Angels, Braves, and Indians while NY was playing around with those other teams. Not to mention Pavano leads all of MLB in hits allowed, Wang looks as though he’s not about to make it through his second go-around without getting shelled (please see last Mets start and D-Ray start before that), Brown is out for who knows how long, and Jared Wright may NEVER come back. Yeah, I’d love to have their staff and that good ERA they are coming with (:.

    Brad-SF June 27, 2005, 8:37 pm
  • As I write this, Sierra has (arguably) given up an extra base on a ball to right-center and Matsui has (no doubt here) allowed two doubles to drop, all in one inning. Cost: 2 earned runs for Pavano. So. Again. To repeat. For the umpteenth time. Once more: improve the defense, and Pavano and Wang don’t give up so many hits/runs/wins.
    Mattymatty: according to the Pinstripe blogger Steve Goldman–and who are we to argue?–this Yankee defense is the worst in MLB in the last 30 years. Changing a few players may not make them geniuses, but a single change can have a significant ripple effect. Offensively and defensively. Let’s say this: we’re not likely to see rally killers Sierra and Woemack batting consecutively too many more times. We hope.

    YF June 27, 2005, 8:58 pm
  • Ah, the beloved team ERA. That YF clings to that isolated statistic as evidence the Yankees may not be as bad off as, say, our first place Sox, well, that tells us a great deal. I am not going to start burying the Yankees or their pitching staff (didn’t they win like 16 of 17 earlier? Couldn’t they do it again once their schedule softens up, har har), but who is YF kidding? Who do the Yankees trade? Does Eric Duncan get them a primo defensive outfielder who can also hit a little? Even if it does (and who is it that they target, YF? How about ponying up some player names, for a start?) they still have a problem at first/DH, a rookie second baseman who has already made 7 errors, and an outfield that is hurt and aging at the other two positions. How is that one outfielder and no Mel Stottlemyre gonna solve their problems, to the point that they can win 95-97 games, which is what it might take to make the playoffs? Aren’t the problems much deeper? For my part, I think the Yankees better hope that Pavano turns in an absolutely stellar second half (possible) and the rest of the staff has to overachieve a TON to get them to the top (not likely). It could happen (the Sox did win the series after all) but what are the chances?

    SF June 27, 2005, 8:59 pm
  • YF – according to Baseball Prospectus’s James Click (or maybe Joe Sheehan, but I believe it was Click) its the Reds and not the Yankees who’s defense is monumentally bad. Thats not to say the Yankees defense is good. Certainly it isn’t, but you know as well as I do YF, that one game with a few isolated instances doesn’t prove the point.

    mattymatty June 27, 2005, 9:20 pm
  • Here’s the quote from BP’s Click:
    While the Yankees may be getting quite a bit of grief about their defensive ineptitude of late, the real criticism should be directed towards the Reds and their assault on the title of Worst Defensive Team in Recent Memory. The ’79 A’s–a team that had no position register a positive FRAA except for pitchers–have set the bar pretty high, but it’s certainly not an unattainable goal for the new Big Red Machine.

    mattymatty June 27, 2005, 9:24 pm
  • Yeah, I love the team ERA stat.

    Brad-SF June 27, 2005, 9:28 pm
  • Isolated stat? Go back and take a peek and you’ll also find reference to ops, obp, and k/9. But nevermind the facts. As for whom the Yankees might acquire, I really have no idea. Wynn and Kotsay have been floated. Whomever it is would put Matsui back in left, where he’s adequate, and Woemack on some other team’s roster or back home at his pool with a mai tai, where he’s harmless. That result will be a big net gain on both sides of the plate. As for other positions, Giambi seems to be getting on base, if not hitting for power, and Cano is likely to improve.
    Meanwhile, the Sox seem to be doing a lot of chicken counting. But the reality is they’re not that great a team, notwithstanding their little hot streak. The idea that Schilling is going to come back to the rescue or that Theo has some bunny of a plan waiting in his cap, while plausible, should not be cause for RSN to sleep comfortably.

    YF June 27, 2005, 9:36 pm
  • That last paragraph is laughable, and we’re not biting. Nobody’s counting chickens, YF, hence the utter dearth of “YAY THE SOX WON AGAIN AND I LOOOOOOOOOVE OUR RIGHT FIELDER HE’S SO FRICKIN CUTE I WISH HE WOULD CALL ME BACK” posts that seem to pop up from your keyboard every time the Yankees do something remotely interesting.

    SF June 27, 2005, 9:42 pm
  • Yeah. It’s always us. But wasn’t it just Millar who declared the division race over?

    YF June 27, 2005, 9:47 pm
  • Millar’s an idiot – he can’t count in the first place, so “counting chickens” is an ill-advised cliche.
    T minus about 25 minutes until YF’s next giddy post, I think. A challenge: can he resist the temptation, or will we be subjected to yet another 5th-grade-level love letter to his team and the win that pushes them 2 games over .500?

    SF June 27, 2005, 9:51 pm
  • Who cares how many chickens the Red Sox or their fans are counting? Even if the Sox lose tonight (inevitable) and the Yankees win (they’re leading the O’s now) theres very little comparison between the two teams. The Red Sox are rolling and the Yankees are way behind and scuffling. Even YF can admit that (probably).

    mattymatty June 27, 2005, 9:57 pm
  • Is SF channeling Karl Rove tonight? Disregard the facts and then smear. It’s effective with your base, but we all know it’s dishonest and wrong.
    MM: the Sox are about to be all of 5.5 games up with 90 plus games to play after a torrid streak. If you think the teams are incomparable, good for you.

    YF? June 27, 2005, 10:07 pm
  • You’re right YF, the Sox are not that good of a team. There is no chance Schilling is going to help them this year. I could not agree more. Hold on, Something just flew by my window – yep, it was a pig.
    I’m sure happy my team does not look at every win, be it legitimate or through the help of blue (see pittsburgh), as the game that turns things around. How many times are they going to turn it around? I’d much rather be on a “little hot streak” and have Theo running the ship, than be circling the bottom of the tank with Brian Cashman.
    Also, I’ll continue to sleep pretty good knowing it’s going to be Wang, Pavano, and Wright (maybe) running out there every five days. In fact, just the thought of that is relaxing me right now.

    Brad-SF June 27, 2005, 10:11 pm
  • What are you talking about, YF? Really – you make absolutely no sense at all.

    SF June 27, 2005, 10:12 pm
  • YF, you’re killing them tonight.

    Nick June 27, 2005, 10:12 pm
  • Ah, thank goodness Nick has also chimed in with some Einsteinianly intelligent, YF-grade criticism. The Gods of snark sneer with jealousy at the prowess exhibited tonight by these two.

    SF June 27, 2005, 10:16 pm
  • Good for me? Getting a little pissy, aren’t we?
    Lets go over this point by point:
    YF says: the Yanks have better pitching than the Sox because their ERA is lower.
    Reality: Uh, no. (Come on YF, would you seriously take your five guys over the Sox five guys?)
    YF Says: Yanks defense is worst in the league.
    Reality: Uh, no.
    YF Says: Sox and Yanks are very close because they’re separated by only 5.5 games (6 in the loss column).
    Reality: Not so much. The Dodgers and Giants are separated by 4.5 games and I’m sure you’d say one has a shot this season while the other has none. Same here.
    The Yankees as currently constructed are putting a lineup of four excellent hitters, and five mediocre to crappy scrubs. They’re pitching is bad, they’re old and injury prone. Remind me again how this team is going to beat the World Champs?

    mattymatty June 27, 2005, 10:18 pm
  • They’re not. End of Story.
    Well they may – but only after getting Schmidt, Zito, and Wagner and giving up Cano, Wang, Matsui, and Henn. Then, I’d say they have a legitimate chance.

    Brad-SF June 27, 2005, 10:24 pm
  • Oh, and they would STILL need more help with better out fielders, as YF pointed out earlier. Man, could it go up over 300m?

    Brad-SF June 27, 2005, 10:25 pm
  • I have to disagree with mattymatty here – I don’t believe the Yankees have no chance this year. As YF has pointed out, the Sox’ hot streak is just that: a streak. The Yankees had their own this year, and right now (or, at least until this evening) the Sox have enjoyed a nice wave of success. It could easily dissolve into a 4 or 5 game losing streak, and the Yankees could be back within a couple in a mere few nights. I am not feeling at all overconfident. But that’s exactly the point that YF doesn’t seem to get – I don’t think the division is a foregone conclusion, hence ZERO POSTS from me stating it IS a foregone conclusion. So where does that leave us? Well, it seems that YF would rather chuck a Kevin Millar quote out there to rile the enemy, and it seems to have worked. But all that does is make YF a grenade-chucking wiseass who roots for a team with a two-game winning streak. To paraphrase my co-blogger, “good for him”.
    As for me? I’ll be patient, see how the Sox do over their next thirty games and continue to try to be realistic about their chances in my posts, as I have been thus far. One more thing: YF’s dismissal of Schilling’s return has the odor of fear all over it. And I live 80 blocks south of YF.

    SF June 27, 2005, 10:28 pm
  • Yeah. We’re the granade throwers. That’s it for us tonight, folks. SF, MM, and Brad can continue their roundtable of rude reactionary ridiculousness right through the nite.

    YF June 27, 2005, 10:34 pm
  • SF, not sure why it’s snarky for YF to act like a fan. After all that’s part of his name (and part of yours as well). Sometimes acting like a fan means rooting for the players on the team. Thus, YF’s appreciation of Jeter, who has done a lot in his career to warrant fan support. You root for Theo and management, posting updates on his genius every two weeks. YF gets excited about the people in the uniform. What a snarky bastard!

    Anonymous June 27, 2005, 10:35 pm
  • last post was me. sporry. now you can attack. Go for it!

    Nick June 27, 2005, 10:36 pm
  • sporry=sorry. bad typer

    Nick June 27, 2005, 10:36 pm
  • Sox fans — this is really astute Yankee analysis. I know a Nigerian prince who has a lot of money to give you.
    Yankees win. Red Sox lose. Captain Varitek goes 0 for 3.

    john massengale June 27, 2005, 10:39 pm
  • I’m not saying the Red Sox have the divison (or anything more valuable) sown up now. I’m just saying that I don’t think the Yankees have a shot at the division barring unforseen and drastic changes. Changes that I don’t see as realistic to make, given the Yankees lack of young talent to give in trade and an already bloated payroll.
    “rude reactionary ridiculousness” Thats a good one YF. I’m a sucker for aliteration (even if I can’t spell it). My apologies if I’ve come across as rude. We have a difference of opinion about your team’s chances this year, which I believe is what this blog is founded on. Its going to take another 90 games to see which one of us is correct, and thats the truly fun part if you ask me.

    mattymatty June 27, 2005, 10:43 pm
  • Agreed. With SF and MM, of course

    Brad-SF June 27, 2005, 11:34 pm
  • The division race is not over yet (a fact that seems to even elude the “experts” at ESPN and annoying writers like Dan Shaughnessy). I haven’t written off the Crankees, but they seem totally stuck in yo-yo mode. And given how their second half schedule is much more difficult than the first, they’re going to have to fight tooth and nail to have a chance for the playoffs. The O’s might look cooked at the moment, but I haven’t written them off either. Not yet.
    The Sox have a tendency to streak. But remember, the team won five in a row before being blanked by Pittsburgh, then bounced right back and won seven in a row. Tonight was bad, but there’s nothing saying the Sox won’t take 2 of 3 from the Indians and then go on a tear against the Jays. We just have to wait and see.

    Sox Fan in VT June 28, 2005, 12:10 am
  • John: I had really hoped that the “astute Yankee analysis” was going to come from YF in this thread, considering he posted the original piece and it was about the Yankees and their meeting of the minds. Instead of emulating YF and insulting us SFs, how about holding YF himself to a standard slightly above his “hey the Yankees are meeting in Florida and something good might happen!!!” observation for a start? It would be nice if YF had some ideas about what the Yankees could do; instead, he’s taken the thread, antagonized Red Sox fans, and in the end all he’s really come up with “it appears something will be done” (his exact words: genius, that!) and then shipped himself off to bed when the going got rough. That’s really astute stuff. I’m blown away. In retrospect, if perceptive Yankee analysis is what you want from us SFs, then I guess I will have satisfy your lust and provide it at some point later today – judging from this post YF certainly isn’t going to give us any.

    SF June 28, 2005, 6:13 am
  • “//Annoying writers like Dan Shaugnessy//”
    I could not agree more here VT. This jackal loves to shoot his mouth off, be it about the demise or promise of the Red Sox. I think he does it just to cause people to talk about him. While many of his articles are pretty good, and he does have deeeeeeep contacts within the Red Sox organization, his random comments like the one this week always seem to keep him out of the good graces of most ritualistic baseball lovers. His self-proclaimed knowledge of all things Boston Red Sox (and sometimes the Yankees as well) is getting pretty weak, and it’s not long before even the most casual fan finds his diatribes irritating and troublesome for the organization. I would bet the players already do.

    Brad-SF June 28, 2005, 6:38 am
  • All the YFs have quit this debate, SF, because discussion is pointless when you’re constantly being misrepresented and smeared. Put my words back in context and you have “it appears something will be done about the Yankee outfield problem.” I’m sorry i’m not Karnak and can’t tell you what that’s going to be. Have a nice day.

    SF June 28, 2005, 9:29 am
  • YF?

    Nick June 28, 2005, 9:35 am
  • Did you just write back at yourself? Or, is that a simple Freudian Slip on YF’s behalf? This thread has gone out of control:)

    Brad-SF June 28, 2005, 9:54 am
  • I’m depressed. Do us Yanks fans secretly want to be Sox fans. Things have changed!

    Nick June 28, 2005, 9:57 am
  • SF, you want Yankee analysis from YF? How about some Sox analysis from SF? This Yankee envy must be tough.

    john massengale June 28, 2005, 10:04 am
  • “Thanks to DirecTV, the MLB package and all the games on ESPN.com, we all get to hear local announcers throughout the game, a treat when they are analytical and balanced. A small poll I did came up with the Giants (Duane Kuiper, Mike Krukow), Yankees (Jim Kaat, Michael Kay, Ken Singleton, Paul O’Neill) and Cubs (Len Kasper, Bob Brenly) as the best announcers, although New Englanders worship Jerry Remy and Don Orsillo.”
    This was in Peter Gammons latest writing. Do you think that his poll was of all Giants, Yankees, and Cubs fans, or are people actually dumb enough to choose Jim Kaat and Michael Kay over Don orsillo and Jerry Remy? I don’t really know much about the Giants and Cubs announcers, but the Yankees’ guys? I’ll take our NESN guys any day.

    Laura June 28, 2005, 10:07 am
  • John: I want Yankee analysis in a thread that is purportedly about what the Yankees might do. I don’t need a rehashing of the fact that the Yankees might do something about a problem. For example, if I post a Sox analysis thread that states “the Sox have a bullpen problem and the news outlets reported that the Sox are meeting to do something about this bullpen problem” then feel free to lob the bombs my way – that is vacant stuff. As it is, I haven’t done that – in fact I have posted my suggestions and thoughts about their bullpen problems, however misguided my ideas were.
    I, as we all do, look to YF for bold statements and interesting ideas (to dream!), not just restatements of the daily headlines.

    SF June 28, 2005, 10:18 am
  • YF did offer analysis which was more than a simple rehashing of the day’s events. If you remember, he said that the team was abandoning its tired notion that the way the roster was configured was enough to reach the postseason. He then hoped aloud that the Yanks would seek to improve its defense, as that would go a long way to helping them compete with the Sox for the division. Three Sox fans thought this was a silly outlandish hope. mattymatty offered analysis that went something like this: “You say this…I say ‘uh no.” Brad attacked Cashman as usual, making references to flying pigs. You relied on your usual bag of tricks, talking about how your fandom was so much more reasonable, how you looked at things in the long view, and then, as usual, you attacked your partner’s posting style. Meanwhile this thread grows to one of the biggest ones you have had on this site ever. You’re right! YF’s posts are just so dull and vacant.

    Nick June 28, 2005, 11:20 am
  • Nick says: blah blah blah
    Reality: Yanks suck
    Nick says: blah blah SF blah blah
    Reality: Yanks still suck.
    Nick says: mattymatty has the maturity of a six year old and an intellect to match
    Reality: no argument there

    mattymatty June 28, 2005, 4:25 pm
  • lol. man this is a great place to blow off steam.

    Nick June 28, 2005, 4:34 pm
  • Hahahah.

    Brad-SF June 28, 2005, 5:41 pm

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