Categories General Red Sox Pay the Man! Post author By Paul SF Post date May 6, 2009 44 Comments on Pay the Man! ← Bad Blood: Sox-Yanks Gamer II → Thoughts and Prayers 44 replies on “Pay the Man!” So if sorry-ass Teixeira is worth $180 gajillion and can’t get a hit for any reason under any circumstances, what is Bajason “I donothing but crush homers” bay worth??? p.s. Sorry if my posts look bad, I have a huge void over the box and I can’t see what I’m typing??? The worst part is the Yankees could have had Bay for what they used to get Nady (hurt and sucks) and Marte (sucks and hurt). Oh, and they have two OF/DH slots open for 2010. With how much Holliday is sucking, one thing’s certain: Bay will get paid. Cashman needs to get fired. It’s still early: if Holliday heats up and Bay starts slumping then nobody is going to remember that he was hot in April. Having said that I think Bay puts up career numbers by the end of the season, and Holliday will rebound and do just fine. Cashman and Girardi gone at the end of the season. Theo needs to realize that with every moment he wastes, JayBay’s value goes up. And, Bay seems really comfortable at Boston and in the clubhouse. This is the kind of guy who Theo should be lusting to sign to a long term deal. Forget Teixeira…who I was never all that jazzed about, the future of the Sox is with people like Pedey and Youk and yes, JASON BAY. How come we didn’t see Joba fist pumping after THAT image? Can we let this team get healthy before we start firing people? Nobody is happy that they are losing, but let’s keep things in perspective. We all think we know best and that we could have done something better/different, that’s human nature. The bottom line is that the Yankees have a very good team on paper, the GM has put together a very competitive team. Now the players that are on the team need to play and perform, the ball is in their court. Sure I’d like to have a better option than Ransom/Berroa, but this is a good team. I’ve seen the comments about Mark DeRosa, but I don’t agree. I am a huge DeRosa fan, he played for a local HS, but where would he play? Did we know in January that both Nady and A-Rod would go down? He’s a 2B-3B-1B-OF, if not for injuries he would have been a bench player with no spot to play on a regular basis. I think that’s just overkill. I would have liked a Grudz type player, but that didn’t happen. We need to go with what we’ve got and stop placing blame on the manager and GM, this team is good enough to win with what they have. “How come we didn’t see Joba fist pumping after THAT image?” Riiiiggght because good ol’ Speedo McRiverdance never shows any kind of enthusiasm on the mound. The bottom line is that the Yankees have a very good team on paper It’s no better, and probably worse than, the 2008 team. How’d that work out again? if not for injuries he would have been a bench player with no spot to play on a regular basis. When was the last time that conditional came back true? this team was good enough to win with what they had before all their players got old. Jeter missed a ball two steps to his right yesterday. He’s going down next, or Damon, or Matsui, or…? And Teixeira is still hurt from the Spring. The bench by itself isn’t a problem. This bench with an old roster is an annual problem. Just an interesting observation that has nothing to do with this conversation: All the RBI in last night’s game were by current or former Red Sox players. “It’s no better, and probably worse than, the 2008 team.” Strongly disagree. AJ Burnett and CC Sabathia aren’t upgrades in the rotation? The bullpen minus Farnsworth isn’t better? But the bottom line is what I think, what you think mean nothing. At the end of the day this current team as constructed is good enough to win. They have had significant injuries and they are still at .500 in the AL East. Let things play out before we fire people is all I am saying. Your Bench if you signed DeRosa would have been: Molina (Backup) Swisher (Starter on most teams) DeRosa (Starter on most teams) Berroa/Ransom You would have had to cut ties with Melky because he is out of options in order to make that move OR send Gardner down. Do I want DeRosa on the team? NO DOUBT. But at what point do you say enough is enough? The Sox are/were winning with Nick Green, you don’t need top flite bench players to be successful. You just need a solid bench and to your point the Yankees don’t have that. We just disagree on who the players should be, that’s all. No attack on you Rob, just stating my opinion. The “Old” roster issue will resolve itself to some degree next season. I don’t see “Old” being a reason for most of these injuries…Nady isn’t old. Wang isn’t old. Alex isn’t old. Bruney isn’t old. Marte isn’t old. Sure Posada is old (baseball terms) and Matsui’s knees were no mystery, but that is what it is. This isn’t as old a roster as it has been in the past. Back on topic and my apologies to Paul, maybe now I don’t seem so crazy for saying (here and to others) that Bay will contend for the MVP this season. He’s just such a sound, solid, baseball player. He runs the bases well, plays solid D, he hits for power, situational hitter, etc…I’d take him on my team any day of the week. He could hit .150 the remainder of the season sure, but I don’t see that happening. Theo better snatch him up now before Bay’s wife tells him to sign with the Yankees. They have had significant injuries and they are still at .500 in the AL East. Let things play out before we fire people is all I am saying. My point is that they’re going to continue to have “significant injuries”. It’s May 6th and they’ve already lost A-Rod and Jorge for 6 weeks each. Who’s next? Knowing Jorge’s questions going forward, relying on Molina and Cash was criminal. Swisher was maybe a starter only because they thought half a year from Nady overcame the rest of his suck. And who said Ransom and Berroa solve anything? The “Old” roster issue will resolve itself to some degree next season. Jeter missed a ball two steps to his right yesterday. And Cashman will still expect Jorge to catch 120 games. Meanwhile, Cody Ransom will be 34 (same as A-Rod). plays solid D Not true. He doesn’t make mistakes, but his value, and why they haven’t signed him, is seriously hurt by him not being able to play RF. He’ll be overpaid at the end of his next contract. I didn’t say he was spectacular, I said he plays solid D. Holy cow do you love to nitpick and argue minutia. I am not commenting on the Yankees any longer on a Bay thread, sorry. John YF – Re: Speedo McRiverdance (funny, by the way) and his public displays of enthusiasm…Granted, JP is not a starter. But if he were, I’m reasonably sure he wouldn’t be fist pumping in a game in which he’d put his team down 4-0 before the contest was ten minutes old — or if he did, that one of the veterans on his club would straighten him out the moment he got back to the dugout. If I’m Derek Jeter, I take one look at Joba jumping around like he just won Game 7, and I say: “Dude. Scoreboard.” couldn’t agree more MJL. can’t really think of anyone ever dancing around fist pumping while obtaining an L. john farrell on joba’s first pitch plunking of bay…… “Again, speaking specifically about last night, [Chamberlain] strikes out 12 guys, doesn’t seem to have too many command issues, and if there was a purpose or intent to throw up and in, or if the intent was even further than that, to send a clear-cut message, you can disguise it a little bit more than with a first-pitch pitch in the middle of the back to Jason Bay. So, those things aren’t forgotten. We know that there’s a history there between the pitcher in New York and our guys here, so, not to say that he was specifically out to do that, but I think history speaks for itself. And we’ve got a number of games left with these guys.” Just ignore this crap John… You are probably right…just feels like the world is ending for our once proud franchise. Color me depressed. I’m generally pretty noncommittal about the fist-pumping because I recognize that I only get annoyed when people from other teams do it. But having said that, MJL is spot on. Fist pumping and screaming on the mound is fine when you’re winning or just closed out a game or got out of a jam when your team is ahead. Striking out Mike Lowell so that you didn’t widen the deficit you’ve already put your team in — that just makes you look like an idiot. “The worst part is the Yankees could have had Bay for what they used to get Nady (hurt and sucks) and Marte (sucks and hurt).” Is this true? I don’t think so. The Pirates got more in terms of prospects in the Bay deal than the Marte-Nady deal. Unless I’m not remembering some report this isn’t right. I remember being pissed at Joba for pumping his fist after the k because I was angry that he gave up four f*cking runs in the first inning already. Kind of ruined the rest of the night for me. This season sucks. For Bay, the Pirates got Bryan Morris, Andy LaRoche, Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss. For Nady and Marte, they got Daniel McCutchen, Jose Tabata, Jeff Karstens and Ross Ohlendorf. I don’t know. That seems close. LaRoche, Hansen, and Moss are all pretty bad. Both Karstens and Ohlendorf are in their starting rotation. I said he plays solid D My point was only that for a left fielder that’s not saying much. If there’s any reason the Sox haven’t signed him, it’s because of where he plays. They’re at least smart enough to know you can’t have three DH’s at a time. Ugh here we go again with the fist pumping thing. Big deal Joba pumped his fist when he was losing. If thats what he needs to do to get fired up so be it. I actually remember Papelbon doing the same thing a few years back after blowing a save but preserving the tie with a K. It happens, its part of these guys personalities. As Paul said, it only bothers people when the other team does it. If pumping his fist after a K, allows Joba to keep his team in the game like he did last night despite his terrible start why the hell should anyone care? My point was only that for a left fielder that’s not saying much. If there’s any reason the Sox haven’t signed him, it’s because of where he plays. The reason we haven’t signed him is because his agent is Boras and is probably asking for a Teixeira-like contract. It’s very easy to say “Well you guys were about to pay X to Teix, why pay anything less for a player of equal calibre? And in Bay’s defense, he’s made some great plays in left this year. The only time he looked bad was at the Trop, where he lost two line-drives in the lights. The Sox aren’t worried about his defense dude. I remember that Papelbon instance Sam, and most SF’s on here were mad about it. Fair enough Ath and there are YFs here not “pumped” about Joba but to me its who these guys are. Take it away from them and they arent the same pitchers. As a RS, the pumping did not bother me at all – I even smirked a little that he could get pumped about only giving up 4 runs. It would have bothered me way more if it had been a Sox pitcher cuz then I’m thinking “Get back in the dugout and stop looking like an idiot”. >The reason we haven’t signed him is because his agent is Boras and is probably asking for a Teixeira-like contract. And if he played 1B, he would get it. He doesn’t and so he won’t. And Joe Urbon is his agent. http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/boston-red-sox.html >The Sox aren’t worried about his defense dude. No, and that wasn’t my point. Anything north of $15 million for four years and they’ll be overpaying. That is, the production he’ll provide won’t be so far different from an average LF/DH that he’ll be worth it. Even last year, which was very good, he was only worth 13 million. http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1717&position=OF They would have signed him if he could play either corner. He doesn’t and so they can get better value elsewhere, if they so choose. “Get back in the dugout and stop looking like an idiot”. Exactly what I thought when Ellsbury took a curtain call for stealing a base. Rob – but you were ok with Joba celebrating only giving up 4 runs? Interesting. Didn’t Ellsbury celebrate on the field too? I think it’s interesting that you equate celebrating after you steal home with celebrating after giving up only 4 runs. The fist-pumping and carrying on doesn’t bother me too much. If he wants to carry on like that in a losing effort then whatever. Whats lost in all the noise about that though is the drilling of Bay. Is that really seen as acceptable by yfs? It’s not like Bay carried on with any celebration after hitting a decent blast. And even if he did it’s not like Joba can take the high ground on that one. I don’t think any of his teammates will be thanking him for any of his actions last night especially when they are digging in next game against the Sox. Straight steal of home: happens less often than no-hitters. Getting a strikeout in a crucial situation: happens way less often than a straight steal of home Errr, way more often* This is the worst strikezone I’ve ever seen. Especially for Pavano, who has been painting the corners well. Joba drilling Bay was a transparently and inarguably stupid thing to do. It will do nothing to intimidate Bay, and it will only serve to endanger Yankees players. Remember, the Sox employ two guys who throw mid-90s with brains that aren’t exactly oversized. If I am a Yankee veteran I am not impressed by Joba’s “team first” attitude, I am pissed at him for putting me in the firing line. Drilling Bay was just childish bully crap, and that’s how I view Joba. Its part of the game. He wasnt head hunting. Sox hit Yankees all the time, Jeter has been sent to the hospital on multiple occasions by Sox pitching and Arod had been drilled countless times in the last 4 years. So you are OK with it? As long as its not at the head you can drill anyone in any situation? A lot of hitters get hit by a lot of pitchers regardless of team, the majority of which aren’t intentional. There have been plenty of intentional drillings between sox and yanks over the years, and there is usually some history behind it. Some pitcher feels slighted by a hitter showboating on a long HR or someone gets hit after a perceived OTT takeout slide etc. Then someone else gets hit in retaliation blah blah blah. Joba was hitting the outside corner all night and first pitch buries it between Bays shoulders because he served up a 2-1 kok-shot that cost him 3 runs. He should drill himself for that not anyone else. When (not if) a Yankee gets hit in retaliation they can thank Jobas ego for the bruise (or worse). Who is playing SS if Jeter gets hit on the hand in retaliation? Joba? Sam: it is certainly part of the game, but that doesn’t make it a wise move for the team. The question that might be asked is whether or not the Yankees players feel like what Joba did exhibited anything related to helping the team. Like I said above and Dan echoes in the most recent post, hitting Bay intentionally does nothing except endanger Joba’s teammates, John Farrell said as much. Chamberlain accomplished worse than nothing, he neither helped the team in that specific game, he did nothing to intimidate his opponent, and he has endangered his own teammates. I’d say that is a pretty shitty return on his investment. It’s one thing to hit a batter in retaliation when someone on your team gets hit; right or wrong, that’s protecting your teammates. What Joba did he did for himself and nobody else. I think it’s fine, as long as you don’t throw at a player’s head. But let’s not pretend that Joba’s actions weren’t short-sighted and selfish. farrell’s a fool for making those comments, and should be fined and suspended for them not…holding…my…breath Leave a ReplyYou must be logged in to post a comment. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.