Rocky Mountain Hire?

The Denver Post reports the Sox are in negotiations with the Rockies for the services of first baseman Todd Helton. If you believe what you read, Colorado is looking at Manny Delcarmen and/or Craig Hansen (but not Bowden, Bard or Buchholz?) to come in return. The addition of Helton, an on-base machine with diminishing power (Boston’s Abreu?), would push the Sox 2007 payroll to approximately 43 cajillion dollars. Speculate wildly here.

48 comments… add one
  • Brad are you saying the Yankees current payroll is 80 million more then the Sox? I would double check that figure. Not 100% sure of the exact numbers, but I am sure the sox are closer then that.
    (I would do more research, but my 15 month old son is trying to beat up the dog with his plastic bat!)

    Triskaidekaphobia January 27, 2007, 1:35 pm
  • Hey, save the dog!
    No, I’m not sure of that amount, but I do no it’s not equal. I made the comment in jest, but the fact remains that the payrolls are still out of whack, so substance does exist in the linings of the comment.
    On another note – any deal that involves Matt Clement and prospects, I’m all for it. But, if I have to choose between Manny Delcarmen or Hansen : later, Manny.

    Brad January 27, 2007, 1:45 pm
  • If the Post article is right, I am less worried about the $90 million than I am the 6 remaining years on the contract, especially for a player with declining numbers. As much as I love Manny, I know the club has seen the length and cost of his contract as an albatross. What would they think of Helton in 2012?
    (As an aside, I live in Denver and Helton is still the Man out here, it would a sad day for a lot of Rox fans if/when he’s dealt.)

    ettett January 27, 2007, 1:47 pm
  • Hard to see a). where they would put him (1B? What happens to Youkilis? DH? Yeah, right), or b). why they would want him (injured, slipping power, essentially Jason Giambi but without the roid withdrawl).
    The only way I see it happening is if it’s part of a three-way deal where the Sox end up with Cordero or Otsuka. Do the Rangers or Nationals need Helton? Unlikely.

    Paul SF January 27, 2007, 1:49 pm
  • I thought the idea was to put him at first and Youk at third, and try to move Lowell in the deal somehow. I don’t worry too much about his power slip, because for the next couple years anyhow, he’s not going to need it. There is enough power on this team already, and adding more is only, well, Bronxish. They need bigtime OBP guys with good gloves, and he’s a good fit.
    But I am of the thread that they A) should not pay even 80% of his contract, and B) not give up too much to get it done.
    If they do this, you know that they are more than serious about getting back into the dance in Curt’s last year, and he deserves a ton of credit for predicting this in September.

    Brad January 27, 2007, 1:57 pm
  • Ah, just read the previous thread. Ok, I like this deal if it’s Lowell, Clement and Delcarmen for Helton, with the Sox agreeing to eat all Helton’s salary. That’s basically giving the Rox another player, and the Sox wipe Clement’s contract off the books, so it doesn’t affect payroll as much over the next two years.
    That’d be a pretty cool lineup.

    Paul SF January 27, 2007, 1:58 pm
  • The Globe:
    “While Todd Helton remains a fascinating possibility for the Red Sox, major league sources indicate that the Red Sox will only make a deal “if the chips are perfectly in place.”
    The Red Sox like their team as presently constituted and though Helton, a .333 career hitter with a .430 on base percentage and three Gold Gloves, would add an incredible dimension, there’s concern about the five remaining years of his contract at $91.1 million. Presumably the Rockies are willing to pick up at least half of that. The Red Sox would not want to give up young players, in keeping with their theme from the trading deadline last season through to the winter meetings.
    The teams are expected to talk again this week, but the initial buzz around the talks has been that the Red Sox would really have to have a change of heart from their present view of a deal.”
    The Herald:
    “Not to downplay the reports of the Todd Helton trade talks one iota, but a source familiar with the Red Sox involvement in those talks said that the team is not currently motivated to make a trade for Helton and that it is content with its current squad. That sounds as if it would take one very tempting offer from the Rockies to make the Helton deal a reality and that it is the Rockies who are driving these talks, which have taken place with other teams since last fall as well. The situation remains very fluid, very intriguing.”
    It looks like the Red Sox are already negotiating through the press, trying to drive down Colorado’s asking price.

    Paul SF January 27, 2007, 2:02 pm
  • Lowell and Clement add up to Helton. It’s nothing gained or lost really, money wise. Down the road, maybe, but for the next two years, they wouldn’t spend anymore money to do this. I too, am scared of Helton’s length of time owed.

    Brad January 27, 2007, 2:03 pm
  • If The Rockies ate half, the Red Sox should jump immediately.

    Brad January 27, 2007, 2:04 pm
  • Over the next few years, the Sox have a lot of money coming off the books — Schilling and Ramirez, particularly. Perhaps they feel they can better absorb the hit later on because the holes left by those two will be filled by young players making a fraction of their annual salary.

    Paul SF January 27, 2007, 2:05 pm
  • …”we felt we needed to bring in some aging overpriced former stars with rapidly eroding skills to supplement our lineup…to hell with prospects…they’re overrated”…

    ee2 January 27, 2007, 2:05 pm
  • Paul, I’m not sure I buy that theory. Players are only getting more and more expensive every year. Any player who’s going to hit the market in 2009, and is a top flight FA, is going to be richer than you and I can fathom. At least, with this current trend, those are my thoughts. But, in opposition to it, one could point to where everyone thought the contracts would go after Manny, Jeter, and A-Rod signed theirs, and they didn’t go there.

    Brad January 27, 2007, 2:09 pm
  • Ken Rosenthal saus the deal currently is Craig Hansen plus two prospects for Helton. He also says Lowell’s not part of the deal. He doesn’t mention Clement at all.
    If that were the case, I’d definitely oppose. I can stomach losing one prospect, maybe even two, if one was low-level. But three, one of them being Hansen, without dumping salary baggage of our own? Even if the Rockies ate half, I don’t think that would be worth it.

    Paul SF January 27, 2007, 2:14 pm
  • I agree Paul. If that’s the case, it sounds like something Cashman would do, not Theo.

    Brad January 27, 2007, 2:21 pm
  • Brad, the Abreu deal?

    Nick-YF January 27, 2007, 2:34 pm
  • I cant see Colorado taking Lowell and Clement and eating half of Heltons salary.
    I also cant see Boston trading Hansen.
    A deal I could see is Boston taking on most of Heltons salary and giving up Crisp and Lowell and another mid level prospect. Colorado would have to take on the difference between the luxury tax threshold and the balance of Heltons contract for 2007 (say he makes 16 million in 07 and Boston is only 8 million under the lux tax mark Colorado would pay the other 8 million) Boston could then assume the remaining balance in full. This allows Colorado to ditch significat salary after 2007 with Helton and Lowell off its books completely and adding a OF.

    TJ Sox Fan January 27, 2007, 2:47 pm
  • Not especially, Nick. I for one, wanted Theo to pull the trigger there. In hindsight, I’m glad he didn’t. I was simply thinking along the lines of RJ, Brown, and others. Aging guys who make a ton of money to come to a new park to die. It wasn’t a slash at Cashman, but rather a comparison of philosophy. Theo has avoided this move for awhile, and while trading, it’s normally for younger guys, not older ones.
    If the pieces are right, I’m all for it, but if the Rockies want both young talented pitchers or Youkilis, no way.

    Brad January 27, 2007, 2:47 pm
  • Id rather see Pena go if they want an OFer. He’d absolutely mash there, and I think there is enough power here already. I would think that the Rox would want his 1.5 more than a guy like Crisp, who is essentially a tablesetter and speedy baserunner. They need a guy who can get it out all the time.

    Brad January 27, 2007, 2:49 pm
  • Maybe they’d take Andy Phillis and a prospect. Cash?

    YF January 27, 2007, 3:08 pm
  • Lowell, Hansen and another prospect for Helton would make sense if the Rockies picked up half of his contract.
    There is a clause in Helton’s contract that says he can opt out of the current deal and become a free agent after 2007.
    If the Rockies bought out half of his contract and he signed for two years with Boston, what a deal that would be. Not sure he would agree to something like that though.
    Putting another lefty in the Sox lineup would make it very formidable however. (Not that it isn’t a solid lineup as currently constructed).

    Jason January 27, 2007, 3:31 pm
  • I really think it will be Delcarmen anyhow. Hansen isn’t your normal underpaid aspiring talent. He signed a huge contract for his age and accomplishments out of college. He is not nearly as attractive as Delcarmen fiscally. If it’s money they’re after, they would do justice to ask for Delcarmen instead. Also, I like Hansen, so I’m biased. I think he has a boat load of talent and needed last year in the worst way. I think he’ll be fine this year. Good even.

    Brad January 27, 2007, 3:38 pm
  • 1.) Colorado will not trade Helton for junk, especially junk they have to pay for. So I really think unloading Clement is out unless he’s packaged with some damn good prospects, including Hanson. I mean Hansen.
    2.) Helton will not opt out of his contract in 2007. That would be one of the worst decisions I’ve seen out of a baseball player ever.
    3.) If this deal gets done, and Boston eats the contract, they will be over the luxury tax threshold, and there’s nothing Bud Selig can legitimately do about it. And as I understand it, their payroll expenses instantly jump something like 15%. That’s a ton of dough.

    Andrew January 27, 2007, 4:19 pm
  • Hail Lucifer Lucchino

    tesetr January 27, 2007, 4:22 pm
  • Yeah, I agree Andrew. Boston isn’t going to do something that puts them in that rare air of playing with luxury tax. But, I disagree about Colorado, they’ll do whatever saves them a few million a year, and they’re in no position not to.

    Brad January 27, 2007, 4:22 pm
  • The Sox are not going to trade Ellsbury AND Hansen to the Rockies for a $90M player. Due to the LT, that $90M is somewhere north of $100M, and since the Sox would (hypothetically) be trading someone cost-controlled for half a decade (Ellsbury) and someone comparatively cheap (Hansen) for a player who plays an already cost-controlled position (Youk at first), the deal as presented by Rosenthal is completely ludicrous. Why can’t these sportswriters apply a little critical thinking? This sounds like trial balloon territory, and if the Sox front office has any consistency, those balloons have already popped.
    The only way Helton comes to Boston is if Lowell is moved, Clement is cleared, or the Rockies throw in many millions of dollars and/or cost-controlled players.

    SF January 27, 2007, 4:45 pm
  • The sox have more young pitching in the minors and they draft good pitching tallent. Let a little pitching talent go and make this offence even more dynamic. Finacialy does Todd’s contract seem like a problem for the sox right now? Not really. They must have some more money to spend if Favre oh I mean Clemens comes back (Lets wake up from that dream). Make them eat Clement, part of Heltons$$ and let Hanson go. Great deal for both sides. Todd would be great in Fenway, another young pitch will fill Hansons shoes and Clement and his $$$ will be gone. Now thats a dream come true.

    T-DOGG January 27, 2007, 5:31 pm
  • wow.

    Brad January 27, 2007, 6:00 pm
  • the opt out for Helton was after the 2006 sewason he failed to opt out.

    TJ Sox Fan January 27, 2007, 6:18 pm
  • The sox have plenty of outfielders, i say they wrap up Wily Mo’s deal and then dump him off to the Rockies with Manny, and maybe one more low level prospect. With Drew signed we already have 5 other outfielders and other GMs seem to be impressed by Pena.

    Andrew(no s) January 27, 2007, 7:15 pm
  • “The Sox are not going to trade Ellsbury AND Hansen to the Rockies for a $90M player.”
    The only person who’s even come close to suggesting that is Rosenthal. And he was definitely just throwing names out there — probably because they’re the only ones in the Sox’ system he knew. If he had known Clay Buccholz’s name, he probably would have used it, too.

    Paul SF January 27, 2007, 7:35 pm
  • Helton’s contract is mind numbing and his non-Coors numbers are mediocre. The Rockies would have to practically pay his way for a deal to make sense for the Sox.

    Jeremy January 27, 2007, 7:43 pm
  • His non-Coors numbers are mediocre for 2006. They’re anything but mediocre over his career:
    In ’06, he had inflammation of his small intestine that bugged him for monnths and caused him to lose 15 pounds — which could lead to the significant drop in overall and road production seen in 2006.
    The dropoff also could be from the fact that he’s been injury prone of late and is aging. If the Sox get him for what amounts to $9-10M per year, can unload Clement and only give up Hansen and a low-level prospect in return, that would be the pretty low-risk/high-return trade Epstein likes to go for.

    Paul SF January 27, 2007, 7:56 pm
  • Helton is a first baseman not an outfielder and lets not give up on little hurcules. Half a season is not enough time for us to see what Willy Mo is or will become in this organization. Remember his ingury is the same as Big Papi had early in his career. Lets not give up on Willy as fast as some of his HR’s left the park. And with the way Youk faded at the end it might be a good idea to platoon him between 1st and 3rd, Cora between 2nd and SS and Have Pena Platoon the outfield. The flexibility of the line up could be a great strength if this deal is done. A solid defense also with Willy being the bigest liability.

    T-DOGG January 27, 2007, 8:01 pm
  • Youk tailed off because of hamstring issues toward the end of the year, likely caused by the fact that it was his first full season in the majors. I woudn’t worry too much about him next year.

    Paul SF January 27, 2007, 8:07 pm
  • Of course Helton isn’t an outfielder that is why it would be a good idea for the red sox to make the trade because they can get rid of one of their 6 outfielders and get a great first baseman in return. Youk will move to third, the sox will try to trade lowell for some closer help and hinske can be the all around backup at first/third/ and the outfield. and in the end u get a world series quality team. i never said i didn’t like Pena he just didn’t fit in with the red sox system

    Andrew(no s) January 27, 2007, 8:25 pm
  • wouldn’t it be great if we traded for Helton and he played second base. the would leave a lineup of Crisp,Helton,Manny,Papi,Drew,Youk,Lowell,Tek, and Lugo. that would be an amazing lineup.

    Andrew(no s) January 27, 2007, 9:09 pm
  • …why would colorado take clement?….isn’t he damaged goods?…
    …guys, the rockies are looking for a salary dump for a guy who’s obviously in decline over the past couple of years, but they aren’t going to pick up any of the salary unless theo lets go of some real prospects [not named delcarmen]…not sure why you keep thinking the other gm’s are so dumb…ee2 may have a point: are you giving up on the future in exchange for overpaid aging stars in their decline [not named damon]?…don’t look now, but you’re catching up to the yanks in payroll with or without the funny money dm bid…if you add roger, you’ll be there…

    dc January 27, 2007, 9:41 pm
  • Were it to happen, the whole deal is predicated on Colorado’s need to move Helton’s salary — even if they can only move a portion of it. So they might be willing to take the ’07 Clement hit and swallow half Helton’s salary because that’s still $10M/year from 2008-2011 they don’t have to worry about.
    I get the feeling the Sox can draw a line in the sand, and it’ll be up to Colorado and its own desperation as to how close the deal comes to getting done.

    Paul SF January 27, 2007, 10:20 pm
  • Paul you have a good point, boston isn’t out there looking for a first baseman, colorado is dangling him in front of us and asking “what’ll ya give me for this?”. Sox fans don’t have to worry about getting a bad deal because if the season started tomorrow the sox would be set with their roster and colorado knows this, if anything the trade would cause the problem of finding out what to do with Lowell. We’ll loose a prospect or two, keep one thing in mind, the rockies need the sox not the other way around.

    Andrew(no s) January 27, 2007, 10:42 pm
  • If I was theo, I would offer Lowell, David Murphy and Coco Crisp as long as Colorado is willing to eat around half of Heltons remaining salary.
    Then you have this for a lineup
    SS Lugo
    RF Drew
    DH Ortiz
    LF Ramirez
    1B Helton
    CF Pena
    C Varitek
    3B Youkilis
    2B Pedroia

    TJ Sox Fan January 27, 2007, 11:11 pm
  • wishful thinking

    dc January 27, 2007, 11:14 pm
  • not wishful thinking, dumb thinking. Wily Mo Pena is hitting below .200 in the dominican winter league right now. we either need to keep a few more years and give him some time to work on his patience at the plate. I don’t understand why Coco gets no love, he was good in Cleveland and he had some really good moments with the sox in the first few games and when he got back. substitute Crisp for Pena in the Batting order and You’ve got the next world champs baby!

    Andrew(no s) January 27, 2007, 11:41 pm
  • Paul SF, Helton’s career numbers are stupendous. But he’s old enough so that his recent decline in road numbers is troubling and more likely than not a sign of things to come.
    The trade scenario you outline might be worth it, although I still wouldn’t go for it from the Sox side. Plus I just don’t think they will get the Rockies to pay $40+ million plus of Helton’s salary, which is what they’d need to do to end up paying $10 million or less per year for him.
    He just doesn’t seem like a player I’d want locked up for five years, $50 million, assuming he’d come that “cheap.”

    Jeremy January 28, 2007, 1:10 am
  • …i actually hope this deal works so the sox have a 1B locked up for a few years, that clears the way for the yanks to get tex next year with no interference from the sox being involved…

    dc January 28, 2007, 8:35 am
  • The Denver Post reports the following this morning:
    – Helton would approve a trade to Boston, but he wants the deal done quickly
    – The Sox want to send the Rox Lowell and Tavarez but want to keep Hansen and Delcarmen
    – Helton would likely bat 2nd in the lineup
    – The Rox would be responsible for little more than $40 million of the remaining 90 million on his contract

    ettett January 28, 2007, 10:32 am
  • …what moron is running the rockies that would agree to such a terrible deal?…if theo pulls this off the way it’s rumored, i will give him a virtual genuflect for out-borasing boras, and for this latest deal…he will truly be the best gm in my mind…and no, i’m not kidding…for a change, there’s no punch line for this one…

    dc January 28, 2007, 11:03 am
  • oh man, am I going to hold you to that. That quote was instantly added to my fav’s page under the title: dc’s theo love fest!

    Brad January 28, 2007, 12:31 pm
  • …you got it buddy…happy to oblige…it’s a horrid deal for the rocks [inthehead], and kudos to theo…but only if the deal is as rumored…if it’s changed, all bets are off…

    dc January 28, 2007, 2:52 pm

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