The End Is Near?

John Henry says the Sox are out of the running on Mark Teixeira. 

Red Sox owner John Henry e-mailed several media members late tonight with a stunning twist in the team's pursuit of free-agent first baseman Mark Teixeira. 

Henry's words: "We met with Mr. Teixeira and were very much impressed with him. After hearing about his other offers, however, it seems clear that we are not going to be a factor."

I am stunned. 

Going to bed update: As I've said in the comments, I'm pretty convinced this is a case of Henry calling a Boras bluff. Gordon Edes jumps into the fray with a nice scoop — an email response from the agent himself, even if it doesn't really say anything:

Boras offered his impression of the meeting in an email to Yahoo! reporter Tim Brown: “The Boston ownership was kind enough to request and travel to meet with Mark Teixeira. While it was a very positive meeting, Mark was candid and advised he is in the process of making a decision and is now attempting to eliminate teams.”

Previous posts below the jump.

The Red Sox are in Texas meeting tonight with Mark Teixeira and Scott Boras, and the details of their offer have finally leaked — $22 million a year for eight years (which, ahem, is exactly what a certain blogger predicted in a previous thread).

Is a deal imminent? Maybe, maybe not. Boston TV stations, which broke the news of the meeting and at first predicted a deal could get done as soon as tonight, have now backed off (though these are actually separate stations) and said the sides are still not particularly close. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. 

Whatever the case, it's another bad day for the Boston newspapers, which were scooped on the Manny-Bay trade by the national baseball writers, and are reduced to echoing the television reports tonight.

Update: Gordon Edes adds some from the Yahoo! desk: 

The meeting will not result in a “take it or leave it” scenario by the Red Sox, a source said. However, Henry said earlier this week that the Red Sox will not satisfy Boras’ request for a 10-year deal, and it appears highly unlikely that Boston will go beyond eight years.

The parties are meeting at an undisclosed location in Texas, the Red Sox having requested the face-to-face meeting with the player so he can hear directly from them why they believe he should spend the next eight years in Boston.

HTs to MLBTR and SOSH.
119 comments… add one
  • Come on Cashman! Time to swoop in.

    Nick-YF December 18, 2008, 10:05 pm
  • Id love to see some reports of chair breaking in texas!
    Not gonna be holding my breath…

    Sam-YF December 18, 2008, 10:33 pm
  • Wow. That’s how the Sox do these things. I know I wouldn’t be surprised to wake up and see Tex in Red on ESPN. Before the ink even dries on CC and Burnett…
    @ Sam
    Hilarious. Ah, those were the days…when Jose Contreras could elicit such raw emotions.

    Rob December 18, 2008, 10:57 pm
  • Hilarious. Ah, those were the days…when Jose Contreras could elicit such raw emotions.
    The ghost of Murray Chass lives. That story isn’t even true!

    SF December 18, 2008, 11:13 pm
  • !!!
    The Globe reports:
    Red Sox owner John Henry e-mailed several media members late tonight with a stunning twist in the team’s pursuit of free-agent first baseman Mark Teixeira.
    Henry’s words: “We met with Mr. Teixeira and were very much impressed with him. After hearing about his other offers, however, it seems clear that we are not going to be a factor.”

    Wow. Yeah, that sucks.
    Please be bluffing…

    Paul SF December 18, 2008, 11:17 pm
  • “The ghost of Murray Chass lives. That story isn’t even true!”
    Indeed but its funny!
    I have no idea what to make of the report that Paul just posted but wow….

    Sam-YF December 18, 2008, 11:22 pm
  • Wow, just heard that on ESPN Paul. What the hell?
    Someone must have offered Tex a 9 or 10 year deal.

    Atheose December 18, 2008, 11:25 pm
  • It’s hard for me to conceive of this as anything other than a bluff. If the Sox were truly offering $22-23m per year for eight years, what offer could be so large that would keep them out of it?
    Did the Yankees swoop in and offer $25m+ per year? The Nats come up with an offer so large Teix will take it even though it’ll mean losing 90 games per year for the life of the contract? Or is Boras really, really, really pushing for that opt out?
    God, I hope it’s a bluff…

    Paul SF December 18, 2008, 11:26 pm
  • Either that, or the chances of him signing with the Yankees for an insane amount of money just increased dramatically…

    Paul SF December 18, 2008, 11:29 pm
  • I could see Boras using Sabathia’s precedent and demanding an opt-out clause after 4 years. The Sox would never do that, and I’m sure the O’s or Nats would.

    Atheose December 18, 2008, 11:30 pm
  • My guess: Boras told JWH et al that a rival offered 10 years, money undisclosed. JWH sent the email.
    Boras’ turn.
    Let’s see if the Yankees ponied up.

    SF December 18, 2008, 11:31 pm
  • This does remind me strongly of the Matsuzaka negotiations when the Sox flew to California, expressing publicly their belief that Boras was stalling in negotiations — which caused much fretting among us chickens.
    Ultimately, the deal got done, but not before Epstein and Henry were sitting on the tarmac, ready to fly back without a deal in hand.
    So they have been in similar situations with Boras before… but nothing quite like that statement.
    Ok, I’ll stop diarrhea posting until there’s something new out…

    Paul SF December 18, 2008, 11:32 pm
  • Ack, I can’t help myself!
    Henry does say, “[I]t seems clear” the Sox won’t be a factor. That’s a big difference from the initial impression that they actually will not be a factor.

    Paul SF December 18, 2008, 11:34 pm
  • Yeah, the more I think about this the more I see this as Henry calling Boras’ bluff. What that bluff is, I do not know, but Henry RARELY talks to the media during these sort of things. He meant for this to be public, so it has to be a strategic move to counter something Boras did.

    Atheose December 18, 2008, 11:35 pm
  • “It’s hard for me to conceive of this as anything other than a bluff.”
    Not for me, Its just as easy to imagine a situation where the sox were out bid by one of the teams in it. Say $25 mil a year for 8-9 years. This meeting may have been a situation in which the sox were trying to convince Tex to come to Boston for less than the biggest offer. Maybe it didnt work or maybe it is a bluff!

    Sam-YF December 18, 2008, 11:39 pm
  • Here’s my final guess: Boras claimed that “someone” was offering 10/250, and Henry is calling him on it by saying their out. Wouldn’t surprise me to see them coming back to the Sox and Tex coming to Boston anyways.

    Atheose December 18, 2008, 11:39 pm
  • Ath:
    see my comment a few above.

    SF December 18, 2008, 11:42 pm
  • Sorry SF, looks like I echoed you almost entirely.
    Another, less likely possibility: the Yankees jumped in the bidding just to drive the price up, and made a ridiculous–yet false–offer.

    Atheose December 18, 2008, 11:45 pm
  • “and made a ridiculous–yet false–offer.”
    How would an offer be false? Im sure Boras would be shrewd enough to know when an offer is real and not. I also dont get the impression that either the sox or the yankees would be throwing around false offers for the sake of it.

    Sam-YF December 18, 2008, 11:48 pm
  • I agree, Sam, an offer is an offer.
    More likely is Boras opened with something ridiculous, and the Sox — who are well versed in these types of negotiations with him — had their response already worked out. I notice Henry had his plane taken off the flight tracking we all enjoyed back during the Daisuke saga. So we don’t know if they’ve even left Texas…
    I don’t know if that scenario is any more likely than the Yankees swooping in with a gigantic offer though.

    Paul SF December 18, 2008, 11:54 pm
  • If they threw out a number to Boras that they didn’t intend to fulfill, but was still in the realm of possibility (9/220, opt out after 4 maybe). Then after the Sox back out and Boras rushes to accept, Cashman says “Well the Sox are out of it now, so we’re not willing to pay what we previously mentioned.”
    Like I said it’s an unlikely scenario, but not impossible. I’m not bashing Cashman if this is the case–it’s a smart move, and one I might make if I were in his position.

    Atheose December 18, 2008, 11:55 pm
  • If John Henry is bluffing, it’s an extremely dangerous game to play.
    This isn’t like the Dice-K negotiations at all. Boras can actually go to other teams that really, really want Teixeira. It’s not as if Boston is the only team (seemingly) willing to offer $160 million.

    AndrewYF December 19, 2008, 12:07 am
  • Well, if the Sox went with their last and best offer, they’re essentially walking away from the table and telling Boras, “Get back to us if you like our offer, but if you’re serious about these ‘other offers’ with which you’ve presented us, we’re not going to top them.”
    I don’t see it as dangerous at all. Either the Sox are out, or they’re still in and calling Boras’ bluff. I sincerely hope it’s the latter. I don’t trust this lineup without another big bat in it.

    Paul SF December 19, 2008, 12:10 am
  • The good news is that we don’t absolutely need Tex. We would very much like him in our lineup, and it would help us greatly in the long-run, but right now our team is still extremely solid. We were one game away from the World Series and that was with an injured Ortiz/Lowell/Beckett down the stretch. I want Tex badly, but the Sox will be contenders without him.

    Atheose December 19, 2008, 12:13 am
  • I’ve always seen Teix as something of a necessary luxury, as if that makes any sense. The Sox don’t really need him, but they have enough question marks and potential holes that having him would essentially solve all those potential problems, and even if the Sox’ lineup would still be fine next year, 2010 is looking mighty sketchy indeed as players like Drew, Ortiz and Lowell age even further. Without Teixeira, you’re essentially putting all your chips in the Lars Anderson corner (because no one’s outbidding the Yanks for Holliday next offseason), and trusting in a prospect who’s two years away (at least) is very risky.

    Paul SF December 19, 2008, 12:16 am
  • That’s pretty much how I feel–I’m not confident about Ortiz/Lowell/Drew’s health for the next two seasons, and would love to have Teix as “insurance”, for lack of a better term.
    Having said that, if all we have to worry is “Well Lowell and Ortiz might regress, and we need a better catcher” then we’re in fantastic shape. A lot of other teams barely have a rotation at all, let alone one that consists of 3 guys who could all be aces.

    Atheose December 19, 2008, 12:22 am
  • I agree with Paul. Teixeira makes the Sox so much better, with such little to lose on their end. Payroll flexibility? I believe that signing Tex would put them at something like $125 million. Unless Henry has lost a lot more than has been guessed at so far, the Red Sox have a metric ton of payroll room.
    Guys like Teixeira are the prize teams like the Red Sox can have due to smart payroll management, since they can now more than afford to outbid anyone and everyone. (The Yankees, for example, are nearing or are at their payroll limit, making getting Teixeira not even a remote possibility) Not getting Teixeira, especially when there are so very few great hitters entering the FA pool in the near future, is a big loss for them, and no matter how you slice it, seriously hampers their chances at another title (compared, of course, to actually getting him, if that makes sense). I don’t believe the Sox are a bad team without Tex, far from it, but I believe that the disparity between them with and without Tex is very large, and not just for next year, but the next 6.
    I honestly believe that with the Red Sox, there is absolutely no opportunity cost to them signing Teixeira. Bowing out, even if there is a $200 million offer on the table from someone else, makes no sense to me.

    AndrewYF December 19, 2008, 12:28 am
  • I’m not going to predict here what the eventual outcome will be, but I do think that this statement by Henry is the Red Sox Triumvirate calling Boras’ bluff.
    Remember: Boras pulled something similar with Dice-K.
    Boras probably wants an opt-out and the Red Sox said “No.”
    But I’d be willing to bet someone a ticket to a Kane County Cougars game that this is not over.

    I'mBillMcNeal December 19, 2008, 12:37 am
  • “and made a ridiculous–yet false–offer.”
    Ah, Johnny Damon.

    I'mBillMcNeal December 19, 2008, 12:38 am
  • I bet you the Nationals offered Teixeira an 8-year, $200 million deal with an opt-out after year 4.
    I can see why the Sox wouldn’t want to do that, but the opt-out may soon become the new currency of FA deals.

    AndrewYF December 19, 2008, 12:40 am
  • Bowing out, even if there is a $200 million offer on the table from someone else, makes no sense to me
    Especially if the Sox came in with an offer at or near $180 million tin the first place. I know they’re all about drawing a line in the sand, but this isn’t Johnny Damon or Pedro Martinez, where you’re dealing with aging players seeking more years than is prudent. Is $20 million over eight years a deal-breaker for Boston? I’d be pretty disappointed to learn that was true. Which, again, is why I feel (hope? pray?) it has to be a case of the Sox calling Boras’ bluff. If there is a bid out there for crazy money (10 years/$250m), I can’t imagine it not being leaked somewhere by now…

    Paul SF December 19, 2008, 12:51 am
  • Edes posts this from Boras:
    Boras offered his impression of the meeting in an email to Yahoo! reporter Tim Brown: “The Boston ownership was kind enough to request and travel to meet with Mark Teixeira. While it was a very positive meeting, Mark was candid and advised he is in the process of making a decision and is now attempting to eliminate teams.”
    An interesting reversal in which Boras is being oblique while the Red Sox are making brash statements to the press. This in no way indicates to me the Red Sox are actually out of the running. (Of course it doesn’t really indicate anything at all, but I’ll take whatever positive news I can find)…

    Paul SF December 19, 2008, 12:55 am
  • I am really, truly, hoping this is a ploy and they’re calling Boras’ bluff. I just can’t see a good reason to step out like this. I think it would be a huge mistake, and we have no other move we can make this season to even close to match it (the other elite hitter out there being Manny, who is not coming back to Boston).
    If the Yanks stepped in with 8/200 and sign him, I’m going to be sick.

    Micah-SF December 19, 2008, 2:30 am
  • Man, I hope the Yanks swooped in.

    Nick-YF December 19, 2008, 6:18 am
  • There has to be a limit for what the Sox will spend. It makes no sense to keep going up a little bit, just because 180 is not much more than 160, or 200 because it’s not much more than 184. All of a sudden the contract value you are negotiating has creeped up significant amounts. Where does it stop? If the Sox have a limit they have limit, I find it hard to question why 180 didn’t turn into 200, or why they didn’t just “go the extra mile” or “however many millions” it might have taken to get a player. This is EXACTLY the dynamic Boras wants, where at least two teams are thinking “eh, it’s just another X million, we’re already spending this much why not just spend a few more?”.
    The big question for me is “why did Henry make this public”. If it is to call Boras’ bluff I don’t see why it has to be made public. I am still a tad confused. Both Henry and Boras leave the option of Tex-to-the-Sox open slightly, it’s certainly not a “Mark Teixeira will never be a member of the Red Sox” kind of thing, from either side. It is, upon reflection, a little odd. A bit of PR, a bit of a bluff-call, maybe a bit of impulsive writing on Henry’s side? I can’t figure it all out. It’s very interesting, regardless.

    SF December 19, 2008, 6:19 am
  • “The big question for me is “why did Henry make this public”.”
    Yeah, the fact that he made it public gives me hope as a Yanks fan that it’s not a ploy, that Henry is speaking to the fans here. But then again, I’m not sure if it hurts his negotiating position with Boras in any way to say this publicly.
    Very interesting development.

    Nick-YF December 19, 2008, 6:26 am
  • There’s an LA Times article that is a little confusing, but does the Tori Hunter quote suggest the Angels made a recent ridiculous offer?,0,6519013.story
    “Hunter’s mood brightened considerably when told of Henry’s e-mail. Earlier Thursday, when told Red Sox officials were meeting Teixeira at his home, Hunter said, “That [stinks]. I definitely want him to come back. He made us complete. I know we were up by 11 games when we got him, but he made us that much better.”
    Later in the evening, Hunter, who tried to call Teixeira this week and sent him a text-message Thursday night, felt a lot more confident about the Angels’ chances of retaining Teixeira.
    “What the Angels did was spectacular, they gave him an offer that blew everyone away, and it shows how badly they want this guy,” Hunter said. “I’m so happy they did that. I can sleep better at night. We can’t let Tex go. He’s very special on this team.””

    Nick-YF December 19, 2008, 6:33 am
  • One BIG difference between this and the Dice-K situation, as I think a little more about it, is that with Matsuzaka there was only ONE other option for the player, which was to return to Japan for far less money than was offered by the Sox. The Sox had the leverage and used it. Not the case here.
    Teixeira is in a FAR stronger position than Dice-K ever was.

    SF December 19, 2008, 6:42 am
  • Now I have to go to work and of course I’ll be obsessing over this while trying to teach fifth graders. Poor kids. Did their parents know their children would be learning about baseball negotiation methods instead of fractions on Friday, Dec. 19?

    Nick-YF December 19, 2008, 6:59 am
  • Per my above comment, I need to clarify my thoughts and say that I don’t really think this is Henry “calling a bluff”, as I stated earlier. I am not sure that this is a case of Henry not believing Boras but rather it might just be Henry saying “you aren’t getting out of me what is apparently on the table”. Calling a bluff is not the same as establishing a limit. The former assumes Boras has no better options (and Henry feigns no disbelief at whether these offers are real), the latter simply gives Teixeira a “best and final”, which doesn’t preclude the Sox from signing Teixeira for less than someone else, even if we all know how Boras clients make decisions.
    It seems unlikely that this signing will happen at the moment, all things being considered.

    SF December 19, 2008, 7:35 am
  • Do Yankee fans really hope that they (NY) “swooped in”? Really?
    If that’s the case, why even play the games? If the Yanks were to have signed Tex, they essentially would have signed and overpaid for every single FA worth looking at this year.
    That team would be the sickest team ever run out there, and really, would kill a lot of the desire most of us have to watch baseball.
    Not because it’s NY, but because it’s so much mirror flexing.
    Seriously, that team could probably win 125 games, and the teams like Boston that did actually beat up on NY pitching, would just get slammed by that lineup.
    Would that be fun for Yankee fans? Watching the checkbook dominate the landscape of professional baseball to the extent that it makes little sense to root for anyone else?

    Brad December 19, 2008, 8:21 am
  • And Henry should call the bluff, if it is one.
    If Tex and Boras have a better offer, take it.
    Per CC, and countless others, we’ve seen that they’re going to go to the money regardless of if they like the place or not.
    Yes, Tex would be AWESOME to sign, but at 250 million bucks? For 10 years? I think I pass if I’m the Red Sox. If he wants to waste his entire career playing in DC, then so be it. If the Yanks “swooped in” and offered that money, then so be it.
    Enjoy. The Red Sox will still do just fine with the “holes” they currently have.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 8:24 am
  • It’s like rooting for Duke basketball to sign 25 of the 45 high school All-Americans, rather than the 22 or 23 they normally ink to scholarships.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 8:26 am
  • Like I said the other day Brad, it would an embarrassment of riches and I am not hoping for it. As a Yankee fan I can easily defend the CC and AJ signing, it’s called 2008. (By that I mean that the Yankees do not have 5 ML ready arms ready AND that injuries only magnify that problem, not the whole not making the playoffs thing) But to sign Tex is really unjustifiable. There’s no real need for Tex on the Yankees. The Angels, Nationals and Orioles really have a need. Whether it’s to fill the void of not having a face for the organization or to actually fill a 1B hole, they all have them.

    John - YF December 19, 2008, 8:59 am
  • But to sign Tex is really unjustifiable.
    I think this is an overly dramatic statement. Not that I don’t appreciate your desire for other teams to remain competitive and fill neeeds, but I find the attitude a little paternalistic. Why shouldn’t the Yankees a) take advantage of their financial strength, b) fill holes in their lineup with the best available talent that they choose to value highly and can afford, and c) not really worry about whether or not other teams aren’t filling needs because they signed someone?
    Your comment has an underlying sense of cockiness, that the Yankees are sewing everything up by scooping all these players up. At last check paper teams don’t win championships, and though if Tex does end up on the Bombers it will be a fearsome group and the favorite, there are plenty of examples (uh, my own chosen NFL squad perhaps?) of how juggernauts fail.
    Again, a benevolent sense of parity in competition isn’t a good reason for the Yankees to avoid Mark Teixeira.

    SF December 19, 2008, 9:10 am
  • SF, you know me fairly well, it has ZERO to do with cockiness. I truly do not like the unlevel playing field that MLB has become, but yet I am a Yankees fan. My statement is not overly dramatic, it’s genuine. I have said this a million times and whether you choose to believe it or not my love for the game of baseball comes first, then the love of the Yankees. My statement had nothing to do with sewing anything up. I am not an “on paper” guy, never have been. The Yankees don’t need Tex, they don’t have a hole to fill, like they did when they signed CC and AJ. That’s my point. Tex to the Yankees, Manny to the Yankees, etc…are bad for the game. When you have situations like last season with the Rays you bring back some interest to a sport that’s continually losing interest by the younger generations.
    And you are right Brian Cashman shouldn’t concern himself with keeping baseball fair and equal by not signing Tex. His concern is winning, so if he feels they can afford Tex, then by all means they should go get him. That doesn’t mean that I have to agree or like it.

    John - YF December 19, 2008, 9:21 am
  • brad, you’ve got a good point about a team with means like the yanks seducing every quality free agent with promises of a big payday, but the flaw in your argument is that it’s not working out that way this off-season, and it hasn’t in the past…we don’t always sign all of the top free agents, although it might seem like that to fans of other teams…keep in mind that agents like to use teams like the yanks, sox, and mets as leverage…our names are always mentioned as interested in a player, even if it’s not necessarily so…as for the free agents that we have signed in the past, that approach hasn’t worked very well…i’m not so sure adding these few pieces, as good as they are, will make the yankees as dominant as you fear…sure, they’ll likely win a few more games, and might even go a little deeper in the playoffs, but my confidence is tempered by the memory of free agent after free agent stumbling into and out of new york, giving us fairly ordinary results, along with the occasional attitude problem and choke…i’m not ignoring the string of playoff appearances…those were nice [yes, i know i’m a spoiled yankee fan]…there have been some exceptions to the clunkers, but largely free agent pickups tend to be overrated…contreras, pavano, kevin brown…not to pick on him, he gets way too much of it already, but arod was supposed to “put us over the top” and make us the dominant team for years to come…even as i argue it’s not his fault, nevertheless, how’s that working out?…this may sound odd, but the best thing for both of our teams would be for tex to go somewhere else for the next 8 years…

    dc December 19, 2008, 9:28 am
  • In the cool light of morning, I agree with SF that the Sox shouldn’t keep upping the ante by $15 million just because each increase is merely incremental in nature. That’s how you end up paying $300 million while wondering how that happened.
    I remain convinced that this is the Red Sox calling Boras’ bluff — to the extent that they believe it’s a bluff. I don’t think they know, but they’re basically saying, “If you have other offers better than ours, take them. But if you don’t — or if you do but they’re with the wrong teams — we’ll be right here with the offer we presented last night.” The public statement precludes Boras from using the visit as a negotiating ploy with another team, but it does not preclude Boras or the Red Sox from agreeing to the Sox’ best-and-last offer.

    Paul SF December 19, 2008, 9:29 am
  • Seriously, that team could probably win 125 games, and the teams like Boston that did actually beat up on NY pitching, would just get slammed by that lineup.
    Would that be fun for Yankee fans? Watching the checkbook dominate the landscape of professional baseball to the extent that it makes little sense to root for anyone else?

    Winning 125 games? Yes.

    tells-yf December 19, 2008, 9:31 am
  • Fair enough, John. I hear you.
    I don’t think this is calling a “bluff”. A bluff occurs when you have very little in hand and feign strength. Boras is in a strong money position with Teixeira, I think this is indisputable. And he’s likely to have one other option for Teixera to go to a contending team (Anaheim). Henry is, to me, taking himself out of an upwardly spiraling bidding war that Boras seems to want to set off at the last minute. Henry is not taking an offer off the table. The Sox are still in this, but it’s in Teixera’s court, not Henry’s.

    SF December 19, 2008, 9:53 am
  • Well, I’ve said my piece.
    The Yankees have gone way over the top if they were to sign Tex. It’s one thing to flaunt the money, but it’s completely another to blow your nose with it before handing it to the homeless fellow.
    Not that I’m arguing from a Sox POV here, as I’m well aware they are not the likes of Pittsburgh or Cinci, but it’s just not good for baseball for NY to do that kind of thing.
    They’ve already grossly overpaid to the best two pitchers available, already house the best player to ever put on a pair of spikes, and have essentially muscled their way back into contention.
    There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with the first two moves. Tex would be over the top, IMHO, and justifying it by stating that “its only on paper, and these moves have not really worked out for them in the past” isn’t an acceptable excuse.
    There has to come a point when it becomes obvious that my little sister could manage a team that just outbids everyone by fifty million, or a few bonus years on the end of a contract. Again, not advocating this as a Red Sox fan, as they’re more than guilty of the same thing a time or two, but never has any team been so brass as to do something like devoting near a BILLION dollars to a fleet of five or six guys.
    Or a HALF BILLION to the two corner infielders.
    Let that sink in.
    If it were the Yanks, and CC is on the bump, there will be near 700 million dollars in three guys.
    Really? That’s okay with NY fans (and SF)? I’d be embarassed if the Sox did this.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 10:02 am
  • All while asking tax payers to chip in another half a billion for their new stadium, lest we forget.
    Get a grip.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 10:03 am
  • I think we’re saying the same thing, SF, just phrasing it differently. We both agree Henry publicly said he would not engage Boras in Boras’ efforts to get the Sox to bid against themselves or anyone else. The question is how much he actually believes Boras’ claims, and that’s probably not a particularly relevant question at this point.
    Incidentally, it seems no one else (other than panicky Boston headline writers) thinks the Sox are actually out of it either:
    Though Boston’s chances to land the multitalented free-agent slugger may have diminished slightly after the sides failed to make progress in their high-powered Texas meeting Thursday night, few baseball people believe the Red Sox are completely out of the picture.
    At least a half-dozen baseball executives with some knowledge of the process suggested to that the Red Sox remain interested in Teixeira and are merely intent on sticking to their last proposal (which one source pegged at close to but probably not more than $180 million for eight years). While none of these people were in the room in Dallas where Red Sox owner John Henry and general manager Theo Epstein met with Teixeira and his agent, Scott Boras, they all have some peripheral knowledge of the negotiations.
    Several of these baseball executives suggested Henry and Epstein could merely be engaging in a game of poker with Boras, and all said they believed the Red Sox still would like to land Teixeira, the biggest free-agent prize among everyday players. …
    Several subsequent headlines indicated the Red Sox had pulled out of the Teixeira sweepstakes. But the executives suggested all Henry meant is that he is sticking to his number and is not intending to bid higher. In other words, he is calling Boras’ perceived bluff but remaining in the high-stakes game.

    Paul SF December 19, 2008, 10:24 am
  • If Tex allows them to win 125 games, I think Cashman should sign him for whatever he’s asking.. ;)
    Well, as long as they don’t lose in the ALDS..

    Lar December 19, 2008, 11:29 am
  • I think a team should spend whatever money they can. Arguing the Yankees shouldnt spend money is essentially the same as saying that the Steinbrenners should pocket more money and profits. Surely Brad doesnt want to see the Steinbrenners just get richer. I dont see why the players shouldnt profit from success just as much. I just sent in a check for $2000 for season tickets and I want to see that money going on the field, not in their pockets.
    I have trouble feeling bad for the Pirates and Marlins of the world when they take in more money in Revenue sharing than they put into their payroll. Their fanbase should revolt against the ownership for not caring about being competitive. The yankees and the sox signing big contracts to free agents has very little to do with that. (if anything it helps them as it adds money to the overall sharing pool)

    Sam-YF December 19, 2008, 11:46 am
  • Sam, I agree on all counts, buddy. You’re missing my point.
    Regardless, I don’t think it’s NY anyhow. I don’t think it’s anybody.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 11:47 am
  • Sam, I am awaiting my call from the ticket office patiently…They told me possibly by Christmas. I am getting nervous because I don’t know if I am going to be able to renew my Sunday package, they said it was not a guarantee. Lucky you!

    John - YF December 19, 2008, 12:10 pm
  • John I ended up upgrading to a full season package. If you ever need seats let me know, they are in section 420A right behind the plate in the upper deck…

    Sam-YF December 19, 2008, 12:43 pm
  • So whats the difference between Henry publicly “bluffing” and Hank “running his mouth”….Seems like exactly the same to me. If this were Hank and the Yankees there would be a certain sub-population of the SFs here that would be ruthlessly trashing him.

    Sam-YF December 19, 2008, 12:45 pm
  • Is that a serious question, Sam?
    I guess they’re both using the flow of oxygen and carbon dioxide over vocal chords in order to make noises, which are then understood by like noise making people who have trained themselves from a very young age to decipher those noises.
    After that, I don’t see the similarities.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 1:00 pm
  • Well if the sox end up signing Teixeria it would be exactly the same thing. Publicly saying “we are no longer interested in player x” and then turning around and signing him. Im not trying to be a Hank defender in generally but there does seem to be a double standard. For the record, Im only talking about Hank’s comments that are specific to contracts and negotiations not the other stuff…

    Sam-YF December 19, 2008, 1:03 pm
  • I mean, Henry politely explained where the negotiation talks went, and what he thought of the current state of affairs.
    In a contract negotiation.
    Nobody was offended. Nobody ended up dumber for paying attention to it. Nobody wished that Henry’s fater would take away his new toy and sit him in the corner to teach the big chubby bully (Doyle rules!!) a lesson.
    Hank runs his mouth on regular ‘ol normal Tuesday – just picks up the direct line to that AP, and spouts off about how awesome he is. No negotiations (or reason whatsover) to do so – unless you count the fact that he just likes to hear himself talk, and needs all the “pissant employees” to show some damn respect!!

    Brad December 19, 2008, 1:07 pm
  • Cross posted there.
    And, I’m not sure I take “we’re not signing him” the same as I take “it doesn’t appear as though…”
    I mean, read into it whatever and however, but until Henry says “We have moved on from Tex because of …” I’m going to be forced to hold judgement there.
    It’s not a double standard, it’s reality.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 1:10 pm
  • It’s not like he said “well if Tex doesn’t want to be a member of the Boston Red Sox and continue to be the highest paid player in the sport, then we don’t want him” then turn around and offer him a 10/300 deal a week or so later to sweeten his “desire to play in Boston”.
    Know what I mean?

    Brad December 19, 2008, 1:13 pm
  • Publicly saying “we are no longer interested in player x” and then turning around and signing him.
    Where does John Henry say that the Sox aren’t interested in Teixeira?

    SF December 19, 2008, 1:49 pm
  • 2 things brad:
    sam’s right about the double standard re. hank/hal and henry/sox mgmt…when the yanks said their offer to cc wouldn’t be on the table indefinitely, sf dedicated a whole post to the event, and sf’s had fun ridiculing the comment…seems like henry’s doing the same thing, but now it’s somehow a more dignified and business-like approach…come on man
    and, the criticism over the yankees overspending on 2 pitchers, from a guy whose team spent over $100m on a guy who never pitched in the major leagues, is really disappointing…

    dc December 19, 2008, 1:49 pm
  • DC,
    Several times I said there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with those two moves.
    I freaking said it repeatedly to avoid that argument, man.
    But, did they overspend? Can you say no?
    Also, I freaking said that I’m not defending the Sox as they are more than guilty of doing the same damn thing.
    I wasn’t picking on the Yankees at all but if the 245million dollar shoe fits, then put it the hell on.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 1:59 pm
  • “Where does John Henry say that the Sox aren’t interested in Teixeira?”
    Fine SF, I was paraphrasing him earlier he actually said they arent “gonna be a factor” in signing him. Does anyone believe this is true still? If Hank said this, SFs would be calling it an example of him “blowing hot air” or some other lovely statement. But when it comes from the Sox front office its an example of their savvy business skills. I fail to see the difference.

    Sam-YF December 19, 2008, 2:02 pm
  • I’m also sorry to have “disappointed” in my post.
    I thought I made it abundantly clear that I wasn’t getting on NY for anything they had done to date. Far be it for me to consider several SEVERAL more millions of dollars and extra years in contract talks (against NOBODY) to be overspending.
    What is exactly you definition of overspending, and if you could, let me know how I can point it out in later conversations without coming off as “criticism” towards NY.
    Are we not allowed to mention it at all?

    Brad December 19, 2008, 2:03 pm
  • Sam,
    You’re creating a hypothetical situation there; nearly sure Hank would just write the check, hand a memo to Tex about what he needs to say at the press conference, and be done with it.
    In order for Hank to be compared to Henry in contract negotiations, there actually needs to be a negotiation. Not just a player writing down a bunch of zeroes, and Hank saying okay.
    And, Hank has yet to actually live up to something he has said.
    Right? You really don’t see the difference here?
    Nobody called Hank a moron the first 156 times he said something stupid that noone believed.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 2:08 pm
  • Buyer: I really like this car.
    Dealer: yeah it’s nice, and you’d look good in it.
    Buyer: What can we do about the price?
    Dealer: Well, this is a performance machine, and I don’t think my boss will let me mess with the price too much.
    Buyer: Okay, so what’s the bottom price if I buy right now?
    Dealer: it’s twenty grand.
    Buyer: that’s not so bad. I’ll give you forty thousand.
    Dealer: But sir, it’s only twenty thousand, and nobody else has offered what we’re asking, which is why it’s still here.
    Buyer: It’s okay. I like it. I’ll give you forty five thousand.
    Dealer: Deal.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 2:13 pm
  • “Nobody called Hank a moron the first 156 times he said something stupid that noone believed.”
    This is an untrue statement, people here were all over him from the start. Regardless, its not just Hank, like dc said there was a post here about Hal saying there was a time limit on the CC offer and plenty of banter about the Steinbrenner brothers…
    Im not sure what the point you are making above are but I dont see how public comments on team strategy like the one Henry is making here and 2 years ago during the DiceK talks are very different than what comes from the Yanks FO.

    Sam-YF December 19, 2008, 2:14 pm
  • Okay, Sam.
    Perhaps we just see the things said as different. I’ll agree to disagree on this one, man.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 2:18 pm
  • The original post that Sam refers to his here:
    For the record, I said above (or in the other thread, not sure) that I have no idea why Henry made this statement publicly. I don’t see how it has any impact on their position or the strength of their offer. That jibes with my thought on what Steinbrenner said about CC, quite consistently.

    SF December 19, 2008, 2:18 pm
  • And you’re right, that statement is untrue.
    I searched the A-Rod opting out/World Series threads, and I noticed that I’ve been riding that horse since day one.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 2:19 pm
  • Sam, I will also assume that you wouldn’t let me get away with a humorous post like the “Subtext” one at the top of the blog currently had it been about a Yankee Owner’s statement and not a Sox owner. I would have been accused of taking needless shots at the Steinbrenners. In this case, there’s silence though.
    I find the criticism a little disingenuous and selective.

    SF December 19, 2008, 2:21 pm
  • said they arent “gonna be a factor” in signing him
    Actually, they said it “it SEEMS clear” they wouldn’t be a factor, which implies no direct action on the part of the Red Sox at all. It’s an interpretation of the current state of affairs. No deadline setting, no ultimata, no take-it-or-leave-it offers — at least not publicly.

    Paul SF December 19, 2008, 2:24 pm
  • First, let me say SF that any criticism was in no way aimed at you. Somehow you manage to be far and away the most objective person here, reading almost all issues the same, sox or yankees. Kudos to you for that.
    Second, I realize there are major differences between Hank and Henry. I respect the later and not very much the former. However, I do believe there is a double standard applied to the actions of the two teams front offices in general. As SF has argued, Henry’s public comments may not be of much use in this situation. He has seemed to get a free pass if he is just bluffing. I was primarily pointing this out not to criticize Henry, but to illustrate that the front offices of the two teams do operate in the same way much of the time. I do this because I tend to sense a general feeling from many (not all) SFs that the sox FO is brilliant and the yanks are a bunch of bumbling idiots throwing money around. I think both organizations are extremely well run and have similar ways of conducting themselves.

    Sam-YF December 19, 2008, 2:37 pm
  • Brad, I think you “Car” comparison is referring to CC correct? I think you need to factor in two things: One the Yankees dire need for an ace in 2009 and on. Two the fact that Cashman has admitted that not trading for Santana was only an option BECAUSE they thought they could get CC. Now fortunately for Cash and the Yankees the cards fell correctly and CC hit the market. With that said HE HAD to sign CC. So they went above what others were asking, that’s clear, but what’s not clear is how hard a sell it was to get CC to consider NY. The Yankees are mostly filled with smart people, there had to be a reason they went so far above and beyond. Either way, it worked and the Yankees got the player they wanted. Was he paid significantly more than he would have been paid elswhere, sure, but the Angels have an Ace, the Sox have 2 possibly 3 Aces…the Yankees had Wang (semi-ace) and lots of ??? and holes in the rotation.
    SO here’s a better scenario for you
    Father 1 enters a store…
    Father 1: Hello sir do you have any Wii’s left?
    Store Associate: I have one left, but there are 3 other fathers here interested.
    Father 2: I’ll give you $50 on top of the price.
    Father 3: I’ll give you $75 on top of the price.
    Father 1: I can’t stand here all day with you fellas. My wife sent me to get a Wii and if I don’t get a Wii it’s going to be a long 2010 for me. Without the Wii my kids are going to get stuck playing with PS2 and a Gamecube, that’s just not going to get the job done. I will give you 200 dollars.
    Store Associate: Done deal.
    See how that works the value is driven up by the demand and needs of the neediest father of the bunch. The Yankees were that extremely needy dad!

    John - YF December 19, 2008, 2:39 pm
  • Meant to say long 2009…jeez, I am off today.

    John - YF December 19, 2008, 2:40 pm
  • bit of a backpedal on your part sf…while the “subtext” post had the “humor” label, i didn’t really see the disdain for henry that you showed for the stein-boys, unless you count the “ass-kissing” comment…brad, you say that you’re not trying to make this about ny, but then you have more comments denigrating a move that they haven’t even made: going after tex…did the yanks “overpay” for cc and aj?…perhaps, although i don’t know how one measures that…let’s see how they do first…did you overpay for tek’s last contract, dice-k, drew, lugo, and others?…perhaps…like they say about beauty i guess, it’s in the eye of the beholder…the yankees are not the [only] villian here, the free agent system, greedy agents and players, and free-spending owners like the yanks, sox, angels, mets, and others have caused this sky-rocketing inflation…

    dc December 19, 2008, 2:51 pm
  • DC, I made the comments because you thought that was the way I was going, when in fact, it wasn’t.
    If I wanted to go down that road, it would be a much, much easier point to argue.
    But, I didn’t which is why I prefaced my comments about NY and Tex, which was my only point to begin with.
    You can’t blame the free agent system, agents and players or anything else if there ends up being a near BILLION dollar infield in NY, and that’s before factoring in CC and Burnett.
    That’s just lunacy at it’s peak; it’s not right, regardless of the team doing it.
    I guess my eye beholds using some common sense here. I really don’t even want Boston to dish out 200M+. Or ten years. Which is why I don’t think he’ll take the offer from them in the end.

    Brad December 19, 2008, 3:18 pm
  • Good stuff from Olney and Gammons (the relevant stuff is probably from Gammons):
    Red Sox executives flew to Texas on Thursday believing they were close enough in negotiations to complete a deal with Mark Teixeira. But after they arrived, they were informed that their offer to Teixeira — something in the range of $165 million to $170 million — was short by upwards of $20 million.
    With that, the Red Sox stepped away from the negotiating table. …
    One executive familiar with the meeting said the Red Sox were told that in order to finish a deal for Teixeira, they would have to offer about $23 million a year over eight years — or a deal for about $184 million. The Red Sox walked out …

    Paul SF December 19, 2008, 3:43 pm
  • Why is there always so much drama with the Red Sox and the hot stove? It’s like they milk the publicity for everything it’s worth. By contrast, the Yankees made offers to the top two free agent pitchers, they had time to think, then it simply got done. Even last year with Santana, and the year before with Dice-K, it was just absurd.
    How much longer are we going to have to hear about the “dramatic” back and forth involving the Sox with appropriate fluffer cameos from Gammons? And here, 80 comments based on a single text message?
    Drama Queens!

    Juan December 19, 2008, 8:53 pm
  • juan- maybe you forgot exactly how the CC deal went down. the yanks threw a ton of money at him and swore the deal had an expiration date. when it became apparent that money wasn’t enough to make CC want to be in NY, cashman boarded the next plane to san francisco to beg CC’s wife to reconsider. when neither the money nor the begging worked out, cashman threw in an opt-out that basically allowed CC to walk before half the life of the contract.
    i guess that was basically drama free. but it was a nice touch having girardis daughter handing out roses during the press conference.

    sf rod December 19, 2008, 9:10 pm
  • Yeah, thank God the Yankees’ signings come drama free. That’s actually Alex Rodriguez’s middle name — “No-Drama”

    Paul SF December 19, 2008, 9:56 pm
  • Rod’s description of how he believes the CC deal went down is exactly what I was referring to in my previous post. I can assure thats far from how it actually went down as much as he would like to think it is….

    Sam-YF December 19, 2008, 10:05 pm
  • sam- guaranteed these are not just my feelings on how the deal went down. if you have a different take on the scenario please explain?
    clearly the yanks were the highest bidder from the get go. clearly there were reservations for CC and family about coming to NY. clearly cashman went to california to attempt to sway CC’s reservations. clearly the deal didn’t get done till cashman said “hey, if you hate it that much you can walk in 3 years.”
    if there’s something i’m missing i’d love to know. i don’t think anyone out there believes that it took CC 2 months to recognize that the yanks were offering the richest contract ever offered to a pitcher.

    sf rod December 19, 2008, 10:51 pm
  • Well Rod all of that stuff that you talk about all along seemed to me to be part of the standard negotiation techniques. I said it all along. If you read the stories about how the deal actually went down, CC said that the yankees were on his radar all along. The whole reservations about playing in NY was a tactic to provide leverage. CC waited as long as he did to sign for good reason which was to see if other teams were going to get interested as the market for free agents develop. Is there something I dont know about the offer actually not expiring at a certain point? Seems like the yankees reserved the right to pull it up until the end. There was never a date given as to when it was to expire.
    Also, do you really think that Brian Cashman went and “begged” CCs wife to do anything. I mean seriously go re-read your account of the events and if you really think thats a fair unbiased description of how things went down, we should stop this conversation immediately since you are blinded by your hate for all things Yankee.
    Anyway by your same description Teixeria must have reservations about playing in Boston since the Sox “tossed” a ton of money at him and he hasnt taken their deal. For that matter, he must have reservations about playing for any of the teams he has talked with. Further, I assume that you believe the sox flew to Texas last night to “beg” Tex and perhaps his wife to join their team? If they make contact with him again are they crawling back? I certainly dont believe it is anything but part of the negotiations but Id love to see how you would describe this same situation if it were the yankees going after him and not the sox.

    Sam-YF December 19, 2008, 11:21 pm
  • sam- i agree with you about leaving the yanks deal on the table for leverage purposes. their offer was the highest ever offered to a pitcher. as per the reports, no other teams were even within $50 million of the yanks. i’m not sure that there was any leverage to be garnered at that point. big money teams like the sox and mets were not interested while the angels main concern was resigning teixeria with CC being Plan B. the other 3 suitors (dodgers, giants, & brewers) were not willing to give the sixth year and were hesitant to offer much more than $20 million per. the yanks basically outbid themselves and they still had to sweeten the pot. why do we even know CC’s wifes name is Amber? because cashman flew to california 3 times in 3 days to meet with her. i’m not sure that’s “standard negotiation techniques”. the money had been there since day 1, only when cashman agreed to the early opt-out did the deal get done.
    as for the teixeria comp, the components are completely different. the sox are not the highest bidder. mark has not stated publicly that he would take less money to play closer to home. there has been no reports that mark or his family needs to be coerced to play in boston. and probably the most pivotal point, the sox don’t offer opt-outs.

    sf rod December 20, 2008, 12:14 am
  • Rod are you just making stuff up?
    1. “Cashman flew to california 3 times in 3 days to meet with her. ” Not true. Cashman flew to SF one time only at CC’s request. This was to seal the deal.
    2. “only when cashman agreed to the early opt-out did the deal get done.” Id love to know how you know this. We had heard reports of the opt-out earlier than the signing, furthermore we have no idea how and when parts of the contract were added, no matter what we read.
    3. “mark has not stated publicly that he would take less money to play closer to home.” Please show me a quote from CC or his agent that said he would take less money to play closer to home. You wont find one because he never said this.
    Finally, I dont think you are realize how the opt-out actually effects the Yankees. Its actually a good thing for them. If CC opts out in 3 years, they have had 3 amazing years from him at his peak and wont have to pay him large amounts for the decline phase of his career. In this situation, the opt-out really isnt that bad for the team

    sam-YF December 20, 2008, 12:37 am
  • PS- what the hell happened to typepad? I have pictures near all of the posts now…

    sam-YF December 20, 2008, 12:39 am
  • Wow, Typepad’s really gone off the deep end…

    Paul SF December 20, 2008, 1:12 am
  • Paul you wanna trade graphics? i really like yours, green is my favorite color!

    sam-YF December 20, 2008, 1:14 am
  • sam-
    1) here’s the link to 3 times in 3 days. i know, seems almost too unbelievable to be true.
    2) never in the history of baseball contracts has the player been given the ability to opt-out prior to half the contract being fulfilled. if you’re saying that the yanks had that on the table early on in the discussions, you’re not being honest with yourself.
    i understand the opt-out clause just fine. i also understand it’s not controlled by the yanks. so spin it however you like.
    typepad is cute

    sf rod December 20, 2008, 1:20 am
  • Rod – the first two meetings happened in Vegas at the winter meetings between, the language is a bit messed up on that link but I promise you thats what happened. The third meeting he flew to SF to finalize the deal after progress had been made in Vegas.
    Even if the Yankees didnt have the opt-out on the table early, you dont know what role it played in the negotiations. Your spin on the entire contract discussion is fully negative towards the yankees. Its widely agreed that both sides played it well and got what they want. Its hard to see the yankees as the victims you are trying to make them out to be.

    sam-YF December 20, 2008, 1:45 am
  • that should read between CC and cashman directly

    sam-YF December 20, 2008, 1:45 am
  • Ha, sorry, Sam. Already changed mine…

    Paul SF December 20, 2008, 1:50 am
  • I have nothing to add, just wanted to try out my nifty new profile image!

    SF December 20, 2008, 7:58 am
  • nothing to add either. Heyman has an unsourced report that Boras is back in dialogue with the Angels and Yanks and that the Bombers are currently debating the value of signing Tex vs. Manny. Really, the article has no value except to fill space.

    Nick-YF December 20, 2008, 8:14 am
  • And still there’s drama – with absolutely nothing of value to report. This whole drama filled thread is based off of one flight then one text message (from the billionaire owner no less).
    Shessh. Didn’t Sox fans follow Dice-K’s plane across the country?
    If that’s not milking publicity, I don’t know what is. That’s the biggest difference between the two clubs in these matters. The Yankees generate press because they have 5-10 local newspapers trying to write unique daily reports. The Sox generate press because they’re media whores. Really? The day of the Sabathia and Burnett signings was the one to fly to Texas? That’s quite a coincidence. There was no other opportunity in the last two months to get that face-to-face, huh?
    Drama. Queens.

    Juan December 20, 2008, 8:32 am
  • There are also two big differences with the Sabathia signing:
    1) The Yankee GM flew to the player’s house and got the deal done.
    2) He did it without his owner babysitting.
    Of course, those two points are relevant because there was exactly zero drama. It. Got. Done. And now it’s finished.
    The Red Sox Media Whoring Show is just getting started (starring Mark Teixeira! featuring Petey Gammons!).

    Juan December 20, 2008, 8:49 am
  • ok maybe im just a moron but i cant figure out how to change my profile pic. help please?

    sam-YF December 20, 2008, 10:09 am
  • you should update your account info in typepad where you can download a photo.

    Nick-YF December 20, 2008, 10:12 am
  • yeah Ive been there, I cant find where it lets you download the photo….

    sam-YF December 20, 2008, 10:27 am
  • You know the other big difference between Sabathia and Teixeira? Scott Boras isn’t CC’s agent. I seem to recall a bit of drama between the Yanks and their high-profile Boras-repped player. Does opting out during the clinching game of the World Series ring a bell?

    Paul SF December 20, 2008, 11:20 am
  • There is always drama surrounding Boras’ clients. He designs it and his clients profit from it. Rod has been arguing that the CC courtship was the one with the drama and I just dont see it. Paul do you think there was any undue drama in this situation?

    sam-YF December 20, 2008, 11:59 am
  • There is always drama surrounding Boras’ clients.
    Exactly. The drama comes from Boras, not the Sox, as “Juan” keeps trying to portray (not sure why I even bothered. He’s clearly a troll and probably won’t be back here to respond anyway).
    do you think there was any undue drama in this situation?
    Undue drama? No, not any more than you’d expect from a team with a dire need pulling out all the stops to bag the biggest free agent player on the market. There is drama inherent in both these situations that we have to learn to accept, but the Teixiera situation has definitely been much more dramatic than the Sabathia situation, thanks to the nature of the respective agents involved.

    Paul SF December 20, 2008, 12:37 pm
  • I’m back to respond. When did the Sox fly down to meet with Teixeira? When was the text message sent around – from the billionaire owner no less? None of that was Boras’ doing. And funny enough, all this Sox-created drama happened the same day as their biggest rival had a press conference for their two huge drama-free signings.
    Also, of the teams bidding for Teixiera, how many have flown across the country for an “urgent” meeting? How many have had their owners send text messages around?
    The Sox are creating drama because they’re publicity whores (which Gammo is all too happy to help with – see Santana last year – is he a Boras client?). I understand their need compete with the Yankee moves, and give their fans something to get passionate about. But how about they actually spend the money to, you know, actually deserve the press attention?
    Drama. Queens.

    Juan December 20, 2008, 8:30 pm
  • But how about they actually spend the money to, you know, actually deserve the press attention?
    I thought the argument was that Red Sox fans couldn’t complain about Yankee spending anymore. I guess I missed the memo that the new criticism is that the Sox don’t spend enough to be worth the hype… Duly noted.
    Clearly, only teams that spend hundreds of millions to NOT win the World Series deserve lots of press attention.

    Paul SF December 20, 2008, 10:27 pm
  • I thought the argument was that Red Sox fans couldn’t complain about Yankee spending anymore.
    Actually, the argument was that the Sox are overly dramatic press whores. Glad you’re not disagreeing with that any more. Cause Boras certainly didn’t have them at gunpoint to fly to Texas then to start sending emails to their media fluffers – and all on the same day their biggest rivals announced two huge signings.
    How about they call the press when they’ve actually dropped the dough? Henry’s certainly good for it.
    Drama. Queens.

    Juan YF December 21, 2008, 2:41 am
  • There has most definitely been “drama”. And it’s been drama from a combination of sources: Henry, for sure. Not sure why his email was so public, other than to remind the fans of his efforts — that’s just PR, not much else. Or, it could be to send a message to Boras, but I find that a stretch, since standing up, saying “thanks very much, we have nothing to talk about right now” is about all the message that Boras really needs. And there’s been drama from, of course, the press, who hasn’t exactly shown themselves to have the greatest reading comprehension skills in the world — Henry’s note was ambiguous and closed no doors on Teixeira, though the breathless reporting, the “stunning” development as it was described all over the place, was really not that stunning. It’s been three days now and Teixeira hasn’t announced a decision, I tend to think that’s because Boras doesn’t want to run to the next best offer too quickly, he has both a client and his ego to protect.
    So yes, there’s definitely been drama, but we have no idea how this one will end, it is difficult to assess the needlessness of the drama at this point. I have no idea how “undue” it is, it will be easier to know that once Teixeira signs. Who out there, if Tex ends up at the Sox at a number that we are all suprised by, will deny that this little incident had an effect? But to the drama at this point is a bit wrong, I think.
    As for the Yankees and CC, well, there was certainly a bit of drama, denying that too is kind of silly. But it’s not Boras, he didn’t have the supposed suitors that Teixeira has (he had one “blow-away” offer supposedly, not the stuff of true drama), and it wasn’t nearly as high-profile, though there were several hyped reports of a late-night plane flight, offers having shelf-lives, etc. But I am not of the mind that these situations are that comparable, frankly.

    SF December 21, 2008, 7:48 am
  • we create the drama by waiting breathlessly for every morsel of “news”, even the made up stuff [or more politely, the speculation], then we pounce on it, gobble it up without chewing, and then regurgitate it, hoping to identify what it was in the first place…the drama is intensified by the media that feeds it to us, the sheer magnitude of the money at stake and the inherent gamesmanship of the negotiations…
    don’t like this new reply thing…unless i don’t get how to navigate to the last comment…it was easier the way things were sorted before…

    dc December 21, 2008, 10:54 am
  • It’s not good, dc, and we’re going to deal with it today I think.

    SF December 21, 2008, 10:57 am
  • This is a test of the new list/reply.

    SF December 21, 2008, 11:08 am
  • Not sure why his email was so public
    My guess is that it was to keep Boras from using the meeting as a way to try to get the “offers” he had already told Henry and co. he had in hand. The e-mail effectively keeps tBoras from saying, “Well, we met with the Red Sox, and now you need to offer $190 million.

    Paul SF December 21, 2008, 12:01 pm
  • But doesn’t Henry’s email then keep more teams involved by lowering the price ceiling?

    Nick-YF December 21, 2008, 12:09 pm
  • My guess is that it was to keep Boras from using the meeting as a way to try to get the “offers” he had already told Henry and co. he had in hand.
    What prevents him from doing this? Because John Henry made a big show? Nobody actually knows what the Sox offered and what demand they walked away from. The reporting just isn’t trustworthy.
    The game is still on. Teixeira not signing as of yet is the surest sign that Boras hasn’t gotten the number he is looking for.

    SF December 21, 2008, 12:31 pm
  • Not sure why his email was so public
    Media. Whores.

    Juan YF December 21, 2008, 6:03 pm

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