The Unit Is Gone

so now we either have to count on clemens (which seems silly) or try to make a trade for a SP.
i’m still not sure how much i like this move.

no worries YFIB, i’m relatively calm all things considered. especially since i’m usually a mess whenever something goes down. i like most of the things cashman has done so far, i’m just not sure what direction he’s going in now.

How are they going to replace those 17 wins??? I guess Andy Pettitte isn’t being counted on for much…

If Johnson had stayed with the Yanks and pitched like he did last year, chances are he wouldn’t have won 17 again, unless of course, he once again got a 7.51 per game run support, which was, btw, the most in the AL.

That must have been part of the hold up. The Backs refused to give up the better prospects if they were going to have to pay the whole shebang. The Yanks may have decided they needed to free up the space more than they needed the big-name prospect.
/Complete and utter speculation

Salary dump or personality dump?

Frankly, I’m thrilled he’s gone. Besides his mostly lousy performance last year, and another crap-out in the playoffs, I found his demeanor on the mound embarrassing, complaining frequently, and constantly glaring in at the umpire when he didn’t get a call, sometimes on pitches that were clearly balls.
And I would be willing to bet that the rest of the players in the clubhouse are delighted by this move.

Goodbye Randy, can’t say I was ever a big fan. This was 100% a salary dump and most importantly a PERSONALITY dump. RJ is NOT a NY guy, too bad it took two years of getting our hopes up to determine that. As for replacing him will still have 5 SP’s (Moose, Wang, AP, Igawa and Pavano) so if they don’t make any moves, so be it they have until July 31st…..

Yes Paul, but I am unsure if he wold have been off the books by then or not. I really do not know the status of his contract with the Yanks. But this could allow for a mid season move after Santana/Willis as has been discussed.
SF may be more on target with the “personality/salary dump.”

Well Paul if Pineiro is your closer, I will be quite the “Happy Little” Yankee.

A big trade for who? LeBron James? Get a grip.

I was thinking he could be the wax distributor at the Ron Guidry Mustache Maintenance Station. You know, since they already signed up Dougie Myunjknckdnklsnbvjkdlsjv to platoon at managing the pension fund and Pride Power Pinstripes 529 college savings plan.

This team is a 90 plus win team with the current rotation. Remember the offense can win games, despite a questionable 4 and 5 starter. Sox fans should concern themselves more with their own issues like finalizing JD’s contract, finding a closer and having quite possibly the 3rd best offense in the AL East.

Yea, I’m not sure how much I like this move either. But I do know that the Yankees dumped $18 million dollars and acquired a decent reliever, 2 pitching prospects and a young SS with an above average bat and fielding… Johnson was gone at the end of this year anyway, anyone telling me that they wouldn’t take 5 less wins (if the Yanks dont get Clemens) and use a platoon of pitchers?

this is a good move. i would have preferred linebrink, but randy might have held firm on going to arizona.
now i just need to wait until the P-Unit passes a physical before i get too excited.

The real comparison must be made between the trade of Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera, Brad Halsey, Dioner Navarro and $10+ million dollars for these four players from Arizona. Essentially, that’s all it boils down to.
I guess, if you want to count Randy’s contributions to the final standings of the Yankees the last two years, and be happy about it, you could do that. In the end, it’s come down to Cashman fixing what he feels was a bad mistake on the organization’s half in the first place.
If you look at what the Yankees gave up for the Unit, and what they’re getting back after being no better for time spent, it’s a solution to an earlier mistake, not a good deal.
A good deal would have been to never get involved with RJ (just like I don’t want Clemens back in the AL East), and keep the prospects you had to begin with.
Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.
On the physical side – has anyone heard (other than RJ saying that he felt good) what the chances are he actually passes the physical.
And until the Yankees actually make a trade for a pitcher, the real value of this transaction can’t be realized. If that trade never takes place, this is a questionable thing for NY to do for this year anyhow. Unless they feel that Karstens or Rasner is just as good, or some combo of them can replace his production, this move isn’t a great idea.
Take it from a guy that sat through last year’s Boston rotation, trading away what you think isn’t a big deal isn’t always the best idea.

Love the Rocket, sick of the drama too though. Let’s rock with what we have for now. Pavano and Igawa will be the 4-5 and if that doesn’t work make a trade before July 31st. I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised with Pavano….have some faith…

It’s a double edged sword for the Yankees. If they “buy” 5 front line starters we are the evil empire. If we do what most of baseball does and search for a 4/5 in spring training our front office is falling short. Who knows if Unit is healthy and even if he was how effective will he be? Plus you got something for him, when he walked after this season what would we have?

It’s a double edged sword for the Yankees. If they “buy” 5 front line starters we are the evil empire.
Maybe so, but I am looking at it exclusive of name-calling. Teams like the Sox and Yankees, with between $3.8M-$5.2M per 40-man roster spot (that’s the current average for our two teams) should be able to do better than cobble together a back-end (#4/#5 starters) of a rotation from 4 or 5 farmhands and unknowns, one would think. It could work out, that’s for sure. And I know that MLB is thin on starting talent, but still, wouldn’t we all be reasonable to expect more, considering the resources. I am not saying that every spot should be filled with supreme talent, but rather that total vacancies in the lineup should be troubling. With the Sox, how can they be spending $150M+ at the moment and still not have a proven closer or even a formerly-proven closer in the mix? (Papelbon excluded for the moment). It cuts both ways; I am not trying to pick on the Yanks here. It’s interesting (though not necessarily shocking) to me that our two clubs can spend like they do and still have big holes in their makeup.
(Again, forget about injuries to a staff – it’s nearly impossible to have 7 quality starters ready in case guys go down. That’s not the depth I am thinking about.)

Remember that he didn’t really have power until the 2006 season, and many of his signings were direct orders from the Boss himself, or at least his Tampa conglomerate.
This is another one of those arguments that is always moving around. First, Cashman is a great GM – look at all those titles! Then he’s not a great GM because, well, it’s not that he isn’t a great GM it’s rather that it’s impossible to prove that he’s not a great GM because Florida has all the power. Then he’s a great GM because he’s apparently been given the power, and look at what he’s done! Cashman is immunized this way. That’s nice for him, I suppose.

I think the boys in Queens would kill to have the SP issues the Yankees have.
Never Waivered, Ca$hmoney is the man.

Who said Cashman was a great GM because of the titles? I’ve heard most of the credit (deservedly or not) going towards Torre. Cashman isn’t immunized, now he actually is doing what he feels best, every move he makes will reflect back on him. Not George, not Tampa, him. Please tell me when such a great move was made by the Yankees before the Bobby Abreu trade. Or when the Yankees ever made such a drastic change (for the better) in their offseason tendencies.
My view is that now that Cashman actually does have power to do whatever he wants with the organization, he instantly makes it better. Remember how the Yankee farm system was one of the worst in the majors? Dioner Navarro the Yankee’s top prospect? Now someone even ranked it sixth. I’ll take the recent history, and the circumstances, and say that Cashman is most definitely one of the better GMs out there.

What you will actually get from Pavano or Igawa is an unknown, fine. But to me a question mark is a hole….There’s no hole.
Is it opening day yet?

Pavano, Pavano. What are we going to do with you, ya big lug?
There was an interesting article at the Hardball Times a little while ago about the average ERA’s of starters according to their positions in the rotation. What it revealed is that the average #4 and #5 is awful, so perhaps the Yanks’ rotation issues aren’t so dire?

re: high payroll/question marks in rotations
the only thing that i would mention, sf, is that there doesn’t seem to be a lot of solid pitching out there. virtually none were available as free agents this off season, and few decent pitchers are made available via trade (at a reasonable asking price anyway, further testament to the high demand and low availability).
holes in the lineup? yeah, that is less excusable with the money these 2 teams have at their disposal.
the pitching situation is slow-going. i can wait until they see some ripe, low-hanging fruit to pluck.
i’d rather my team sit on what they have if the other option is trading away youth for another RJ. (unless injuries etc. make such a move the only option.)

Russell – five less wins is a lot, when it might be the difference between in the playoffs and sitting at home..

What it revealed is that the average #4 and #5 is awful, so perhaps the Yanks’ rotation issues aren’t so dire?
That’s a good point. I read somewhere at SoSH that the closer position is comparable; that is – most teams with ninth inning leads win games at a certain historical rate, regardless of the quality of their closer. Lending credence to the idea that not having a stud closer is perhaps immeasurably less valuable than having an average or below-average closer. Which might explain why the Sox have decided that, at least for the month of January, they don’t need one.
But I am not sure I believe that either.

“Coming from Behind: Patterns of Scoring and Relation to Winning
By David W. Smith”
is the article at http://www.retrosheet.org (in PDF format), in the “Research” category. It examines leads held and blown late in games over the last 73 years, and the statistical occurrences of these situations, closer-independent. It’s very interesting.

SF, I admire such statistical analysis, but there’s a part of me that believes that the Yanks aren’t a dynasty with anyone less than Mo in the closing position.

i apologize, sf. i must have skimmed that line.

Agreed, YFiB and Nick, which is where my skepticism about not having a closer comes from. But it’s still a very interesting article.

sanchez should be ready at some point this year as well, seth.
for january, we’re set up pretty well. (who knows how i’ll feel come june, but for now i’m okay with this.)

“If NY crashes and burns this year, will the praise of this new “addition by subtraction” philosophy still going to hold water?”
yes. it won’t be ca$hman’s fault.
…it will surely be alex rodriguez’s.

On another note: Given the money both of our respective GM’s bring to the table, neither can hardly be called into mensa meetings based on their decisions. When you build playoff teams year in and year out with Twins or A’s money, well, then credit should be showered.
Our GM’s have an endless supply of cash, an endless supply of scouts, an endless supply of assistants and other resources that help them make their hundred million dollar signings. When either guy trades away all-stars for prospects while picking up part of the salaries, it can’t be considered a brilliant move.

Seth, I’m hardly giving him any situation. I clearly said that the moves “could” bite him. Nowhere did I say they definitely would. It could work out to be great, or it could be a terrible move. All I’m saying is that it’s too soon to pass the keys to the city for the moves. It is highly possible that it turns out bad for him for at least this year.
You don’t agree?

While I agree with your basic premise, brad, you do paint a very rosy picture of what cash traded: two legit starters, and the most feared bat in the AL when healthy. A more accurate assessment would be: a 43 year old pitcher recovering from back surgery; an oft injured starter who could barely give you 5 inn a start, and a 39 yr old hitter whose swing is all about his wrists coming back from a serious wrist injury.

FWIW, I wonder how those rates differ in the playoffs. If a closer like Mo can give you a save rate of, say 85 percent versus 75 percent, that becomes much more important over 10 games than over 162. That additional game or two could be the difference in a series.

“. The Sox clearly went into last season at least intimating that making the playoffs — while always a goal — would have been something of a bonus.”
This, however, is hard to buy, in light of the beckett trade.

“that becomes much more important over 10 games than over 162. That additional game or two could be the difference in a series.”
Agreed. This is also true for postseason starting pitching. Which is why I like Pettitte as the number 3 over RJ.

NY Post said that Clemens didn’t like RJ, and now with RJ gone, it’ll be shocking (to them, I guess) if Clemens doesn’t come back.
I’ll believe it when I see it, but ya, as long as you make the playoffs, 4-5 doesn’t matter so much. Unless your season is on the line and you’re forced to put up Jaret Wright..

But, Brad, Sheff played less than a month for the Yanks last year. You have to contextualize that trade. There was no room for him on the team. You can’t really say that trading Sheff will prove regrettable. You can say that about the Unit trade if the rotation is injury-riddled and mediocre.

Also, the money for Wright’s deal is how much it would’ve costed the Yanks to drop him. So in some respect, the prospects were “free”..
It’s actually pretty amazing, in retrospect, that we still won 97 games missing Matsui and Sheff. And still won 17 games for a terrible RJ.
And if trading RJ brings Clemens (at the very least, the money to bring Clemens) then the prospects are “free” too!
I guess it depends on how you want to look at it..

my secret identity revealed again!
___________________________________
Yeah, sometimes I think of using that as a means of pointing out your differing opinions when you need to offer legitimate argument, but then I fear you’d get ahold of my SoSH name…hahahahaah.

I seriously don’t think you can call the Sheffield trade bad at all. There was absolutely no place on the team for him. He can’t play first base, and he’s not much of an outfielder. Who would be benched for him to play? Matsui? Abreu? Giambi? When would Melky ever get to play?
There was absolutely no room for Sheffield on the team once the Yanks traded for Abreu. Given their position, that the Yankees got the Tigers’ top pitching prospect and two lower-level but highly touted relief prospects, without paying any of Sheffield’s salary is amazing to me. That was probably my favorite deal of the three. Jaret Wright’s coming in close second because even if someone does worse in the #4 spot, at least they’ll be replaced. Much better than Wright giving 5 innings of agonizing baseball day in and day out.

brad, you’re completely overlooking the health issues. RJ & GS aren’t the players they were even a year ago. Both are coming back from serious injuries at an age where complete recovery is anything but a sure thing. Last year was one of the few seasons in Wright’s career when he didn’t spend time on the DL. All are significant question marks.
You’re right when you say only time will tell, but with these moves, the yanks gain a flexibility they haven’t had for years.

Blame A-Rod.

from the latest klapisch article at espn.com:
Whatever the reason, Johnson was unhappy enough to look daggers at Johnny Damon last August when the outfielder tried to rally the slumping Yankees. In the middle of the clubhouse, Damon shouted to the whole team, “Come on, you [expletive]. Wake up!” From across the room, Johnson stared coldly, so unnerving Damon that he later asked a club official, “Did I do something wrong?”
…(I)t’s clear no one will miss him. One employee said, “Randy was the kind of guy who, if you asked him, ‘How’s it going?’ he’d stare you down and say, ‘What do you mean by that?’ He was the most socially awkward person I ever met around here.”
sounds like a cool guy to hang out with for 8-9 months. “the most socially awkward person…”?!? matsui’s “relieving himself” in the on deck circle, you’ve got rodriguez and his psychological baggage, gary sheffield’s pity parties, george steinbrenner, etc.
…and RJ is the sociopath of the group.
good riddance.

“There’s nothing rosy about it, Andrews. Did he trade away two starters who were in the Yankee rotation last year? Check. Did he trade away a big bat. Check”
He gets Pettite and Igawa. He gets Abreu. Lineup and pitching remain basically the same as last year. And he gets a bunch of prospects to boot.

Abreu contributed more to the Yanks offense last year than Shef. Granted, Sheff is probably a whole lot scarier.. but hopefully Abreu is finding his 25-30HR stroke again. If nothing else, he keeps leading the league in balls per plate appearance, and that’s fine by me..

Is it truly awful being a YFIB? I have been a visitor many times, but never a full time resident and it was awful! Wearing my Yankee hat through town was like….well I can’t think of any PC comparisons, but you get it….

Just to clarify, Boston is AWESOME, it’s the baseball team I don’t like. The city is great.
Didn’t want to start an uproar!

t, i wear my yankees gear and i take heat for it. it isn’t unbearable. if it was, i could always stop wearing it. (which really isn’t an option.) i play in a hardball league every summer. there i am known as “yankee.” it definitely took a while for people to warm to me. longer than usual. (i’m kind of a jerk.) but honestly, all of my friends while i was growing up in upstate NY were sox fans. (i don’t know why.) i’m used to it.
it is probably similar to being a SFINY.
the most annoying thing is the media coverage of baseball. but i can handle that.

i have no problem with ortiz. i love the guy. i was threatened when i announced my plans to have an “ortiz 34” yankee shirt custom ordered from mlb.com, though. i thought it would confuse more than enrage.
evidently not.

never been to the eagle deli. i live in jamaica plain, work and go to school in cambridge. i’m a lee’s sandwich shop fan myself.

Eagle Deli is where they have that Redunkulous burger and fry eating record….Went there in 2003 tried to break the record and name the sandwhich the “DJ.” They said if you break the record you get to name it….

Um, YFiB, I now have to kill you for even THINKING such heresy.

sf rod, how much mileage do you think you can get out of 1 bad outing by hughes?

sf rod, how much mileage do you think you can get out of 1 bad outing by hughes?
_____________________________________
Not much, but when you consider that it was the only time all year that he faced good hitters, in a chance to shine, it could very easily reflect his inability to handle the pressure of the situation. That’s probably not the case, but when he’s only faced the division’s best once, it’s hard to not judge his performance. It’s difficult to judge any prospects ability to make the jump, but when they’re give chances to showcase themselves, it’s hard to not frown on them when they do exactly the opposite.
Let’s just face it, this kid is good, but he absolutely should not be faced with the daunting task of getting big leaugers out this year. Until he proves he can get the best guys in his own division out, he needs more time.
See – Hansen.

If Hughes dominates AAA like everyone is expecting him to, then there’s no reason to keep him in the minors. And there’s more reason to think that he of all people could handle it better than, say, Steven White or Tyler Clippard.
Also remember that rookie relievers should have a more difficult time than rookie starters. They are immediately put into pressure situations where your job is to protect a lead, or at least keep your team in the game. A starter can shape his game from the beginning.
I don’t expect a perfect game in Hughes’ first major league start. I don’t even expect 6 innings. Pitchers need time to adjust, and Hughes will too. He stumbled a bit in his first few starts in AA, but he quickly adjusted and dominated from then on. I think we can trust Hughes’ ability to adjust to better hitting more than others who have struggled longer.

Anyway fellas have a great weekend. I am off to prepare for Sunday’s HUGE game with the Iggles. Let’s go GEE-Men.

I think we can trust Hughes’ ability to adjust to better hitting more than others who have struggled longer.
————————————
Why? Is there something different about him? Is there something that makes him more capable than other stud number ones to make the jump? I know he’s good at AA, but I also know that there have been an absolute truck load of guys to dominate there, and flame out under the lights. I can name twenty off the top of my head. Listen, he’s good and I acknowledge that, but if the Yankees are smart, they’ll let him stay right where he is until he’s ready, not when they need him. Guys without amazing stuff, like Hughes, get figured out quickly by ML hitters, and if he doesn’t have a strong background of doing well at every level, he’ll stumble when it happens. It’s not speculation, it’s proven. We need to look no further than Zach Duke or John Lester’s struggles at the ML level. Both were just as touted, and just as talented. I know Lester had issues of his own, but he was hardly what we expected of him at the outset. He gave up hits, walked guys, and got really lucky when he needed to.
It takes time, but trust me, I really really hope to see Hughes pitching to guys like Vernon Wells, Manny Ramirez, Ortiz, Haffner, Sheffield, and others before he’s ready. Nothing would please me more than seeing im flame into a mushy mess on the mound and get sent back with his tail between his legs. They should wait, and hopefully someone is smart enough to realize that in they Yank FO.

Ah, so now Hughes doesn’t have the ‘stuff’ to dominate? That pretty much contradicts any and all scouting reports about him. Hughes is a step and a half above Lester and Duke, if you read the scouting reports. He does EVERYTHING well, and he, literally, has no weaknesses. At the age of 20. I think the only negative thing I read about him is that his changeup is not yet major-league ready. That’s it. Most scouts said he was ready to come up and pitch quality innings in September, when he just turned 20 years old. Thankfully the Yankees didn’t do that, but it tells you something about the kid that stats don’t do justice to (although his stats are superior to Lester’s and Duke’s while being a year younger).
Lester did probably exactly what he was supposed to. His ERA was sparkly at AAA, but he walked way too many, and in only 50 innings. He was not ready, and he ended up walking everyone when he got brought up. No surprise there. His walk rates were never really that good, and he probably won’t succeed until he can get that under control. Same with Duke and his strikeouts. Now I’m no scout, but those are pretty basic attributes. Anyway, Hughes obviously shouldn’t start the season in the major leagues and he won’t, but if he can dominate at AAA, like I said before, then there is no use keeping him in the minors. You’ve got to let a pitcher take his lumps…when he’s ready. And I honestly think Hughes will be ready this year.

And like I said, I hope so too. I’m so tired of the Hughes spin machine. I’ve seen him twice, and both times he got rocked. Once and for all, I hope everyone buys into the kid’s scouting reports, and brings him up to the ML. In fact, I hope he makes the team right out of ST. Finally, we’ll get to see the sure fire HOFer, absolute ace that is the phenom.

Brad, you must have seen 2 out of his 3 career starts that could qualify him as being ‘rocked’. Too bad you couldn’t see the playoff game against Portland where he struck out 13 in 6 innings. That’s what ah’m talkin’ ’bout.

See, that’s why I don’t go to Yankee stadium. I never have and I never will. As much as a baseball fan as I am, and trust me I do love baseball, I’ll never contribute a single dollar to Steinbrenner or the crowds there. I know it sounds bad, and I’ve been to Shea plenty, but they’ll tear down Yankee stadium, and with it will go memories I never had a desire to have.
I have this theory. People should be left alone while at a game, but the reality is that they aren’t. I’ll admit to being one of those hecklers or hat knockeroffers, and I regret those days, but when you walk into Philly you don’t wear a Giants Jersey. It’s that simple. If you want to be left alone or not have your bell rung, don’t bring that attention to yourself.
If you really want to cheer for your team and wear the jerseys and hats – go to home games. Otherwise, deal with the drunken stupidity of either place.

You should really go once before it gets torn down. Along with Fenway and Wrigley, it’s among the oldest (and best) baseball parks. Even if you hate the Yankees with a passion, stadiums like Yankee Stadium, Fenway, Wrigley go beyond stupid rivalries. They are baseball incarnate, and letting your hatred of a man or fans or a team get in the way of that is something you’ll regret down the road.

DAMMIT!!!!

andrew is right…i’ll let you wear my yankee hat brad

Well, I for one ‘overcame’ my Sox dislike to watch David Ortiz hit his last two homeruns of the season vs. the Devil Rays.
Of course, getting the tickets for $15 each had a lot to do with it. But really I wanted to see a baseball game, and where better in my vicinity than the Pahk.

good thing hughes is a step and a half ahead of all other prospects, because he’s a step and a half away from being a major leaguer. if he got exposed facing AAA players, what makes you think he’ll contribute this year at a major league level? 12-6 between tampa and trenton might sound great heading into columbus, but you honestly believe that he’s gonna make a difference in the bronx. overlook the shelling he took in the allstar game, overlook the shelling he took during spring training last year, get him up to the bigs asap. project him into the ’07 rotation. give him the untouchable tag when teams call. the sox did the same with hansen, but no sf’s are expecting him to be a savior this/last year. no sf’s are touting masterson as the closer for the big club in ’07, even though he tore it up at a lowell. it was horrible to watch what the sox did the psych of cla before he was ready.
keep hurrying him to the bigs. talk him up when clippard, karstens, and rasner hit a rough stretch.
……you can’t even think about a possible starting 5 in ny without wondering how different it’d be with lidle on it.

TINSTAAPP
Having said that, Hughes is nearly universally regarded by prospect gurus and other such analysts as the top pitching prospect in the game, or the #2. This is not something that some Yankee bloggers have created.
So if the Yankee fans are wrong about Hughes, they will not be alone.
I’m trying to remain guardedly optimistic.

I can honestly say from my 10 or so trips up to Fenway, i have only had a handful of bad experiences. I dont wear too much of my Yankee garb, usually a Mantle tee (which should by all means command a quasi-mutual respect if not avoid all out confrontation). I do get jabbed at verbally of course, its to be expected, and i’ve seen many many physical standoffs from opposing fans at virtually every level of the Park whether people i am with are involved or not. Curiously enough, the worst, or most tasteless, occured between two sox fans i was with and a Sox fan family. They got on my back for the Mantle shirt and instead of really giving it to me, they decided to lob as much gum, food and beer as possible at the two sox fans who treated me to the game. Mother, father and children all played catapult for the various foodstuffs and constantly covered these two sox fans i was with in nasty. My hosts werent wearing Yanks garb obviously as home fans, but they assumed (even after a full on shouted explanation of their sox association) that they were Yank fans. Bizarre to say the least but it was disgusting to me that they would go that far and ignore the pleading to quit. It hasnt kept me from Fenway, but it left a serious tarnish on fenway for me and a constant wonder as to some of the aforementioned 1% / role models for the kid.

one word keeps popping into my head about prospects, with no ml experience, as well as those with relatively little ml experience: “potential”…time and time again you hear folks say stuff like: …if so and so lives up to their “potential”, then you’ll see…or, so and so had a rough year, but has had success before, so the “potential” is there…
can anyone guess who i’m talking about?: beckett, dm, lester, hanson, wily mo, and so on…when yf’s have questioned or had reasonable doubts about these guys, the response from sf’s has been to say that they are wet blankets or naysayers, and shouldn’t ignore the “potential” these players have…and that’s only fair…the hughes fans are only asking sf’s to return the favor and acknowledge that the guy has “potential”…

actually sf, i don’t think we disagree all that much…we’re both loyal to our teams, but we both try to see both sides of an issue, and that’s all we can ask of each other…fair play…my example about “potential” was merely to point out that some sf’s [not you] may be overlooking the “potential” hughes has, while simultaneously arguing the potential of the younger sox…i’ll be the first to admit the odds are that he will not make it, or will be just an average ml pitcher…the odds are against most prospects, but he arguably [and on this, i think you agree], he has more potential that the average prospect, and that’s what’s exciting…i also agree with you that he should not be rushed into a pressure packed role…he needs more seasoning at the lower levels…i wouldn’t mind seeing him in a sept call-up relief assignment with nothing on the line…that might be fun…

SF,
i agree with your opinion of bernie’s musical endeavors – just couldn’t bring myself to say it on that thread, out of respect for one of my favorite yanks.