My Precious

"We’re on Scott Boras’s doorstep because he hasn’t negotiated with us so far," Henry said, frustration registering in his voice during a post-midnight conference call with reporters. "We’re taking the fight directly to him to try to have a negotiation here."

Uh, John, you lost the round.  You went to his turf.  Acting indignant and angry as you hop on a plane to go to the evil one’s lair shows weakness.  It’s time to stop acting like you are scared of dropping the ring in Mt. Doom and just go and do it.

173 comments… add one
  • i have to agree with you sf…
    i’m just not sure why there is such a disconnect between the 2 parties at this point, especially about basic philosophies…a few weeks ago i commented on the lack of news/progress 10 days into the process…you correctly reminded me that’s how negotiating works…it can be effective to wait until the last minute…
    what i find troubling is that they are not even at the point where they start refining the agreement’s language and tweaking the details, because there are still some basic philosophical canyons they need to leap over…here’s some of the philisophical differences that have created what appears to be an insurmountable impasse:
    1. player value: forget the actual dollars, boras believes dm deserves compensation that is commensurate with other top ml pitchers…the sox feel dm is unproven at the ml level, and should be valued as though he were a top line prospect, with great potential…and since they are the only suitor in a unique situation, they should not have to make the kind of offer they might if other teams were competing…
    2. posting fee: the sox feel that the posting fee should be “considered” in negotiations with the player…not sure how they mean that, but it was in one of today’s globe articles…boras has said that the posting fee is irrelevant with regard to the negotiations with the player…
    3. counteroffers: the sox are critical of boras for not responding to their initial offer…my humble opinion is that boras’s silence was his response, and the message he was trying to send was that the offer was so far off, he was not even going to take the time, or give it any credibility by acknowledging it…
    4. flinching first: this turned into a game of high-stakes “chicken”, and the sox flinched first, something boras probably never does…i still don’t understand why the sox didn’t track him down after the first offer, or before to discuss what “neighborhood” they needed to be in for an offer, but to wait until the last minute doesn’t look good…
    and i’m trying not to criticize the sox here…boras is notorious as a negotiating shark for a reason, and probably deserves much of the criticism for holding this thing hostage…you know i’m a yankee fan, but i’ve said all along i was rooting for the sox to sign this guy…it will be good for baseball, good for our rivalry, and i don’t thing anything good can come from a failure to come to an agreement…i see ugly things ahead if that’s the case…

    dc December 12, 2006, 10:16 am
  • We should have been able to see something like this coming. Boras’ only leverage is time (and the Sox’ need to shore up their rotation), so it’s not surprising that he sat back and waited until the last minute.
    Granted, flying out there and knocking on Boras’ door shows a semblence of weakness and desperation on the Sox’ part, but the quotes from Boras’ press conference did not sound like a man dealing from a position of strength. The Sox may have decided they would take the short-term image hit for the overall gain of forcing Boras into a negotiation in which he has little chance of getting close to what he wants.
    All I know is this will be talked about for years to come — hopefully followed by laughter as we watch Matsuzaka mow down another set of Yankees.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 10:27 am
  • Thank you, SF, for not trying to Photoshop Boras’ face onto Frodo. I for sure thought there was gonna be some cheesy mock-up to that poster.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 10:29 am
  • ” i don’t thing anything good can come from a failure to come to an agreement.”
    Even though I enjoy your posts very much dc, I have to disagree. A failure to reach an agreement means that the sox would be without a potential #1 starter to add to an already formidable rotation. That’s good in my book. Matsuzaka will pitch in MLB – let’s just hope it’s for some other team.

    Andrews December 12, 2006, 10:37 am
  • Boras/DM are likely going to have to decide if $50-60M now is more money than what DM will get in the next two years PLUS his 2008/9 reappearance in the States MINUS the value of the injury risk, whatever they figure that to be. Assuming the Sox hew close to the $100M total investment (posting plus a $50M contract or thereabouts), this will be Boras’ required calculation. In other words, can he make more than the $50M (plus whatever DM would make from endorsements over the next two seasons stateside) starting two years down the road. If Boras thinks that DM can return to Japan and get reposted, or wait until full free agency in two seasons without getting injured, he’d have to know that a) the market isn’t going to change for the worse, b) that DM isn’t going to get hurt, and c) that DM is going to remain dominant. Seems to me like if DM is being offered anything around 5/50 he’d be taking an enormous risk returning to Japan. Not counting the cultural component of things, which I can’t qualify.
    I think this deal gets done, based on the risks involved for Matsuzaka.

    SF December 12, 2006, 10:39 am
  • UPDATE: Boston Herald
    “Theo Epstein and Larry Lucchino called Matsuzaka’s agent, Scott Boras, upon landing in California yesterday and requested a meeting with Boras and Matsuzaka. Boras said OK, said the source. A brief meeting took place but Boras told the Red Sox that Matsuzaka was not feeling well and would not participate after all.
    The Red Sox were not pleased by this development. They are awaiting a meeting later today where they are expecting Matsuzaka to be present. They want to assure themselves that Matsuzaka understands why and how they are negotiating like they are and offering the kind of contract they are. One of their chief concerns is that Boras’ unwillingness to make a counter-offer to their earlier bid is an indication that he does not want to make any sort of deal with the Red Sox, using the unfairness of the posting system as the reason.”
    http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/redSox/

    LocklandSF December 12, 2006, 10:40 am
  • Baseball Prospectus weighs in.
    Daisuke Matsuzaka: worth $77M for six years. Thanks, guys.
    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=80

    SF December 12, 2006, 10:43 am
  • Good points dc.
    Re: #1 The Sox will have a tough sell on the notion that DM is an unproven “prospect”. Even though we know that (and it’s my main knock on the deal) the Sox have put up $51 million just to negotiate – which clearly says he’s much more than a prized Triple-A farm hand.
    Re: #2 I’m sure Henry would love for Boras to cut him a break. But given that the player and the agent see no part of the $51 mil, that’s never going to happen. It’s so far out that it almost seems like the Sox are lining up their excuses if this thing to collapses. Everyone knew what they were getting into from the beginning.
    Re: #4 Timing. I think that the Red Sox know what neighborhood they will need to be in to close the deal, just like they knew exactly what it would take to sign A-Rod. I’m nowhwere close to the negotiations and I wrote a month ago that it would take roughly $100 mil to sign DM. It shouldn’t come as any surprise to anyone. I think the Sox are just working the refs here to get the absolute best deal possible. However, they run the risk of leaving it on the table as they did with A-Rod.
    I feel the big myth here is that it’s in EVERYONE’S interest to get this deal done. I think it’s in Boston’s interest more than anyone else’s, save the sports media, who needs a big story this winter. There’s always next year for DM and Boras. The Sox window is now, even though they slightly overpaid for it. I wouldn’t expect Boras to bend over backwards to do a deal now when he can get similar money next season. That’s probably not true for DM’s ballclub, but they’re not involved directly in the negotiations.
    So, as SF has said above: Henry, you know what you have to do so get it done and STFU.

    lp December 12, 2006, 10:49 am
  • Would the Sox offer him a 1 year 15M deal? The Sox don’t want the risk of him stinking (that is why will not pay him “market value”) so a short offer seems like the right thing. If he performs they better line up with an extension quickly or else the posting fee (which I do not count as anything) goes to waste.
    A short offer seems like the move if you are unwilling to give fair value. Why should DM be tied to a low paying contract of $50M for 4/5 years when this is cleary way below market (you are offering him Kanas City money). For giving up 1 year of injury risk in Japan. That is not very reasonable which is why Boras has been silent.

    Seth December 12, 2006, 10:54 am
  • Boras is acting the way he should. No different because posting fee was $51M. To him if it was $1M, $50M, $100M it would not make a difference. Rightly so.

    Seth December 12, 2006, 10:55 am
  • There’s always next year for DM and Boras.
    That’s not exactly true. Matsuzaka has to go back to Japan, he has to play for a few mill, he has to stay healthy, he has to dominate again, and then he has to be re-posted (and the Sox could go ahead and bid $75M if they wanted, right?), and then reach an agreement.
    DM has a ton to give up by not signing. He loses US endorsements, he loses a year of a much higher salary, and he loses a year of ML service time. The man with the most to lose is Matsuzaka.

    SF December 12, 2006, 10:57 am
  • If the market for arms keeps going up like it did the last few years, then he might get paid all the same next year (or the year after, still not sure about the implications). Or he could command a bigger payday.
    He does lose a lot of face though, and of course the injury risk is always there..

    Lar December 12, 2006, 11:01 am
  • i don’t see why matsuzaka can’t endorse products in the US even if he doesn’t sign.
    you could have him in commercials playing the PS3 baseball game, striking out every batter, with a clever subtitled quip about his capabilities.
    he could market a rival to the wiffleball. call it the “gyroball”.
    …or he could sell gyros.
    boras (or whoever is representing him when this is all done) should attempt to keep him visible in the states even if he returns to japan. having him as an established marketing tool in two hemispheres would only help his cause if/when he comes to the US.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 11:07 am
  • Seth, that makes no sense. You say $10M a year is “below market.” Below what market? Matsuzaka is not a free agent. He does not have a single day of U.S. service time. So why should he be paid like a free agent with six-plus years of U.S. service time? Otherwise, Justin Verlander, Jered Weaver and Jonathan Papelbon should all demand to be paid at “fair-market” value, even though they also are not free agents.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 11:07 am
  • SF – good points about the risk however I disagree to a point.
    a) There will, for the foreseeable future, be a market for top tier starters, especially in the AL East given the ages of Schilling, Unit, Mussina, Clemens (potentially), Pettitte etc. Although, the Lillys and Meches of the world won’t be getting the handouts they’ve received this year, premium arms will still command top dollar.
    b) Injury is always a risk on both sides of the fence.
    c) If DM isn’t quite as dominant next year, no biggie. Keep in mind, what’s keeping his personal compensation down right now is the artificially inflated $51 million initial bid. If things collapse this year and all else remains equal, I doubt that the bidding would be as aggressive next time around, leaving more room for player compensation.
    And lastly, to you and me, DM is “going back to Japan” but in reality, he never left. Big distinction. DM will potentially lose the difference between what he makes in endorsements in Japan and the US for ONE year – assuming the market stays the same. He’s not a prospect on the humble playing for minimum wage in the minors. Sorry, if this thing collapses the big losers are the Red Sox. even though they get their $51 mil back they probably would not have another chance to sign him. The Sox would then be forced to bid even more money per year for a part time Rocket and run the risk of DM going to the Yankees.
    Hey, if it happens that way, maybe you guys would win another WS, like in the wake of the A-Rod debacle.

    lp December 12, 2006, 11:11 am
  • lp: I think the injury risk point is that if he signs, he’ll get the money, injury or not. Where if he goes back to Japan, and gets injuried, he won’t have a nice contract waiting for him.
    It’s true though, I suspect the cost would be even higher if Sox wants to sign him next time around – though I imagine the Sox don’t need him unless the Yanks would sign him..

    Lar December 12, 2006, 11:13 am
  • run the risk of DM going to the Yankees.
    This is a risk, of course, but can we stop anointing the Yankees as the divinely-righted recipients of Matsuzaka if he chooses not to play in the States this year? The Yankees weren’t even the second highest bidder, according to sources. Who’s to say that the Sox and Mets wouldn’t outbid the Yankees again?
    I am a bit tired of the assumption that DM will end up on the Yankees if the Sox fail here. There’s nothing that points to that being a fait accompli.

    SF December 12, 2006, 11:19 am
  • Lar,
    What I meant by injuries on both sides of the fence is that MLB teams will inevitably have injuries which will increase demand (and price) for certain players. The Sox are necessarily aggressive this winter due to injuries (and questionable trades) over the past 12 months. And I would gather, given the avg age of the Yankee rotation, that sooner or later they’ll be in a similar situation – if they aren’t already so.

    lp December 12, 2006, 11:19 am
  • SF, there are only a handful of teams that can afford to take the risk to sign DM. It’s that simple.

    lp December 12, 2006, 11:21 am
  • That’s true, lp. The Yankees are only one of those teams. And they were outbid this year. Why should we assume that they won’t be outbid again, if it comes to that?

    SF December 12, 2006, 11:22 am
  • DM loses a little, but not the most. You cannot compare what his Japan vs US endorsments are worth. He does not have to dominat all year, we already know he is good. He has to play for a few mil, but his expected value after 1 year is much higher.
    MLB has the most to lose by forcing the Red Sox into bad faith negotiations, by the posting system. Sox feel as if they have paid a high price already and now want to under pay him.

    Seth December 12, 2006, 11:23 am
  • SF – presumably the Yanks are always in the running.. and you would imagine they learn from this year’s “mistake” of underbidding. I don’t think anyone’s saying it’s certain, but the “risk” certainly exists.
    lp – I see what you mean. Thanks for clarifying!
    By the way, I read this:
    Boras could, however, attempt to persuade Seibu to sign Matsuzaka for one more year at a massive sum — say, $20 million — in exchange for Matsuzaka’s agreeing to be posted again after next season.
    from http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6262992
    I haven’t seen it posted here before, but it adds yet another interesting (though unlikely) scenario. That Boras is creative, if nothing else!

    Lar December 12, 2006, 11:30 am
  • ” don’t see why matsuzaka can’t endorse products in the US even if he doesn’t sign”
    As long as he’s under contract to Seibu, they have a huge say, and a piece of the pie in endorsement deals. When Ichiro and Matsui signed with MLB teams, their endorsements exploded. Matsui’s mug is even on the side of 747’s.

    Andrews December 12, 2006, 11:34 am
  • Below what market? Matsuzaka is not a free agent.
    He will be if he does not sign and waits it out. And on the open market he will get more than $10M per year.

    Seth December 12, 2006, 11:34 am
  • SF, I don’t think that the Yankees were outbid by the Mets and Red Sox because those two teams have more resources to work with. Do you? Clearly DM was not a priority for the Yankees this winter. Their bid was only a token gesture and I don’t think anyone viewed it as serious – except maybe Red Sox fans basking in a so far meaningless victory.
    Similarly, to you think the Sox would bid even higher next year for a player they couldn’t sign this year? Will the process even be the same next time around?
    Ultimately, if the Yankees want and need DM next year (and he’s available), they will do what it takes to make that deal. You can call it arrogance if you want, but that’s just the way it’s always been.

    lp December 12, 2006, 11:35 am
  • “And lastly, to you and me, DM is “going back to Japan” but in reality, he never left.”
    The reality is actually exactly opposite that, lp. Even though he hasn’t officially left Japan, there’s no way he can go back. He said good-bye to the fans, said he would look forward to representing his country in MLB, talked about what an honor it would be to play for Boston. He won’t be returning, as long as it’s his decision, because to return would be terrible for him and his team, who has already told its fans what they’re going to do with the money he would then be costing them.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 11:36 am
  • andrews- wow. i had no idea that the japanese teams could do that. that is bizarre.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 11:37 am
  • With Seibu’s well-publicized financial trouble, would they really be in a position to pay him $20M next season? Sure, they’ll probably recoup it at the end of the season, but most articles make Seibu seem desperate for the posting fee this season.
    And I understand they are a professional sports organization and probably have owners/investors with plenty of money. Hey. The same can be said of the Florida Marlins or Minnesota Twins.

    Quo December 12, 2006, 11:39 am
  • It’s arrogance. It’s not a foregone conclusion. Is the Mets’ rotation young? Won’t they have new stadium revenue?
    The Yankees will be in the running, of COURSE. But this assumption that DM is Yankees’ property if he doesn’t sign with the Sox is nothing but a show of entitlement.

    SF December 12, 2006, 11:39 am
  • sf, it could also be wishful thinking, which i’d bet everyone here has done their share of at some point.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 11:41 am
  • “Their bid was only a token gesture and I don’t think anyone viewed it as serious”
    Yes, because re-signing Andy Pettite was in their plan all along. When $30 million is a “token gesture,” the spin machine is certainly in overdrive. It seems more like a colossal error in judgment as to what other teams would bid for starting pitching this offseason. Why else would the Yanks feel the need to similarly blow other teams out of the water with a $25M bid for the far-inferior Kei Igawa? Because he was really what they wanted all along?

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 11:42 am
  • Was A-Rod a show of entitlement?
    Contraras?
    Man, if you’re this testy over just the mention of that very real potential, imagine the bullets Theo & Henry a sweating!

    lp December 12, 2006, 11:43 am
  • Matsuzaka is currently under contract with Seibu for next season, so if he decides not to sign with Boston he already has a set pay for the 2007 season.

    TJ Sox Fan December 12, 2006, 11:45 am
  • Paul – the Yanks might not even sign Igawa..

    Lar December 12, 2006, 11:45 am
  • lp: Just like they made a “token” bid to negotiate with a (mostly-agreed upon) lesser pitcher, which according to rumors, IIRC, was less than $5M off what they bid on Matsuzaka?
    “Token bids” are the ones the Rangers and Indians put up. Bidding to show their fans they are trying to improve their pitching to great degree (in the case of the Indians, this might’ve been better shown by signing some frickin relief pitching). Both teams knew they would probably be outbid, but it helps to show their fans they are willing to put those resources out there for pitching. The Yankees don’t need to do that. YFs know the Yankees are going to make every effort to acquire the players they think they need for another run at a championship. The Yankees bid was a serious bid to negotiate with Matsuzaka, nothing more, nothing less. Though I will agree, any SFs calling it victory should wait until Wednesday/Thursday to do so.

    Quo December 12, 2006, 11:45 am
  • ” But this assumption that DM is Yankees’ property if he doesn’t sign with the Sox is nothing but a show of entitlement.”
    Seems that you are the one making that assumption. It’s naive of you to think that the Yanks aren’t a threat to win the bidding, though.

    Andrews December 12, 2006, 11:46 am
  • Paul SF, please tell the thread what the MINIMUM required bid was for DM?
    And then tell us your definition of token…

    lp December 12, 2006, 11:46 am
  • do we know what other teams bid for igawa? i haven’t seen any numbers. what was the closest bid?

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 11:46 am
  • Quo – but you don’t know what they bid for Matsuzaka. Isn’t that the argument?

    Lar December 12, 2006, 11:47 am
  • YF in Bos – It’s suppose to be in the 19 mil$ range.

    Lar December 12, 2006, 11:47 am
  • lp, the minimum required, according to rumors, was $39M, which means the Yankees’ $30M was not a “token gesture,” as you stated. It was a miscalculation that was overbid by two other teams, thus nullifying the idea that the Yankees are predestined to get Matsuzaka if the current negotiations fail.
    Thank you for helping me prove my point.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 11:49 am
  • Lar: I don’t know what they bid, exactly, which is why I qualified my remarks with the ever-popular “according to rumors” statement.

    Quo December 12, 2006, 11:50 am
  • SF – even you quoted “run the risk of DM going to the Yankees”..
    It’s only a risk. And a very sizable one. Is anyone going to disagree with the statement that the Yanks are going to be the frontrunner, like they were this year?

    Lar December 12, 2006, 11:50 am
  • thanks, lar. that’s still closer than the reported $13M gap in the matsuzaka bidding.
    as soon as the $51.1M was thrown out there, it seemed that the market spun out of control. that was the opening salvo of this off season. i think it will be difficult to gauge just how ridiculous these contracts are until we see if it plateaus or dives in a few years’ time.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 11:51 am
  • Paul SF – but you can assume that the Yanks will learn from this, maybe even to the point of overbidding.. (as you can even see from the Igawa bid)

    Lar December 12, 2006, 11:51 am
  • Lar, agreed. I think the Yankees would be in the front-running, but I agree with SF that it gets a bit tiring to keep hearing a Yankee victory if current negotiations fsil spoken of as a foregone conclusion.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 11:53 am
  • Talk about spin!
    Quo, SF, and Paul SF, do you three honestly believe in your hearts and minds that in a straight up bidding situation where both the Red Sox and Yankees believe the target has equal value that the Red Sox would outbid the Yankees? Seriously? Did that little WS ring really go that far to your heads?
    Please…Right about now it looks like the Sox overbid for DM and can’t sign him because if it – which would rival the stupidity of the A-Rod negotiations. Henry is already trying to spin his way out of such a colossal failure by publicly blaming Boras – which is like blaming a shark for biting your arm off.

    lp December 12, 2006, 11:53 am
  • What the hell are we going to talk about when, and if, this goes down? We’ll all have to go back to talking about how stupid everyone who did not vote for Jeter is.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 11:53 am
  • ” Even though he hasn’t officially left Japan, there’s no way he can go back”
    Trust that Seibu would come up with a way for DM to save face. In Japan, saving face doesn’t always have to be 100% believeable.

    Andrews December 12, 2006, 11:53 am
  • YF in Bos – I was tormenting the SF’s on the site when they thought the bid was going to be 39.. of course the market seriously moved since then, maybe as a result of the bid (it contributes to it, but probably wasn’t the only reason..)
    51.1 is a hefty sum.. but let’s not go there!

    Lar December 12, 2006, 11:53 am
  • Or fail. Whatever.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 11:53 am
  • Quo: got me there! =)
    Igawa was totally overbidded, and we’ll see what they do with him, but I think with AP, he becomes a luxury and might not even be signed.. and at least according to news, valued at 4-5 mil per, which is nice, since the Yanks do actually pay luxury tax, so the posting fee actually comes into play..

    Lar December 12, 2006, 11:56 am
  • “Quo, SF, and Paul SF, do you three honestly believe in your hearts and minds that in a straight up bidding situation where both the Red Sox and Yankees believe the target has equal value that the Red Sox would outbid the Yankees? ”
    …this is exactly what happened with Matsuzaka. I guarantee you that Cashman, Steinbrenner, et al took their bid on Matsuzaka seriously. If you remember, the initial speculation had most of the bids around $20M. If the Yankees indeed bid the reported $30M, then they thought they were overbidding in order to acquire the rights to negotiate with an extremely talented pitcher. Turns out, the Red Sox overbid to an extreme amount…on the same pitcher with the same talent level that the Yankees bid on.

    Quo December 12, 2006, 11:56 am
  • i didn’t mean to imply that the bid was the sole catalyst for the market “adjustment”, just that it seemed to be the 1st sign of an upheaval.

    Anonymous December 12, 2006, 11:57 am
  • lp,
    do you honestly believe that the Yankees ever thought the bid would be that high? That’s the point of a blind bidding scenario, it takes clear advantage of money out of the equation because no team wants to outbid another by twenty million. The Yankees probably posted the bid thinking that there was no way any other team would go higer than them. Same with the Mets and same with the Red Sox.
    Also, it’s not over yet, so Henry isn’t blaming anyone for it not happening. He’s blaming Boras for being stubborn, which, he is – that’s his job. It’s also Henry’s job to point this out to him and paint him in the worst light possible to the press. Both people are doing what they’re supposed to be doing.
    Please, indeed.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 11:58 am
  • Paul SF – for me it’ll be a “Yankee victory” if the he doesn’t sign because I think he’ll be good, if not next year, then in the not so far in the future.
    Unless it makes the Sox sign Clemens anyhow..

    Lar December 12, 2006, 11:58 am
  • should we sink to the level that assumes that the Yankees were not AS interested in Matsuzuka because they didn’t win the process?
    Oh man, that’s rich.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 12:00 pm
  • Lar: No matter what the Hendricks brothers might say, or spin, I’m guessing the Yankees are now higher (due to the AP signing) on Rajah’s wishlist than the Red Sox. Not neccessarily higher than the Astros, because you know Clemens loves those perks, and might be able to strong-arm the Astros into a big-league callup for his son next September, but whatever they might say, the order is probably like this now: Astros, Yankees,…Red Sox.
    Of course, #1 on Clemens’ list is always The Green $$$ Team.

    Quo December 12, 2006, 12:01 pm
  • Unless it makes the Sox sign Clemens anyhow..
    Normally, I wouldn’t want this, but last night was his 20K game, which makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 12:01 pm
  • “…nullifying the idea that the Yankees are predestined to get Matsuzaka if the current negotiations fail”
    Paul SF, “predestined” was SF’s word not mine. Rest assured, the Yankees will be a major player next time around if the Sox don’t sign him by Friday. And you know this. To deny such is just silly. You are merely trying to justify a $51 million dollar bid which is now seriously jeopardizing your team’s chances of closing this deal. It was an inflated bid that the Yankees did not get suckered into making.
    Please say the $51 million isn’t a factor. I dare you.

    lp December 12, 2006, 12:03 pm
  • Brad,
    I honestly thought that the Yankees knew it would take more than $30 million, especially given the money and SP problems both the Mets and Red Sox had. Everyone on the planet knew that the Sox were going to be aggressive after finishing in THIRD place.
    No one thought they’d be stupid enough to go to $51 million. (Please tell me with a straight face you knew it would take $50 mil to talk to DM) It was a bonehead move even if they can sign him this week because it would mean making a $100 mil investment in an arm that’s never thrown a pitch at the MLB level. Again, tell me how smart and shrewed that is.
    It’s not that the Yankees couldn’t afford to spend $100 million on a premium arm, it’s that this one isn’t worth such a desperate risk at the moment. If you can’t see the difference, then you’ve completely spun out in RSN rationalization land.

    lp December 12, 2006, 12:11 pm
  • No one got suckered into anything, lp. Not the Yankees, not the Red Sox, not Matsuzaka, and you can be sure Boras knew what he was doing all along.
    “Rest assured, the Yankees will be a major player next time around if the Sox don’t sign him by Friday.”
    Sure, the Yankees will be a major player if Matsuzaka goes back to Japan and is re-posted next season. The Yankees will be a major player if Carlos Zambrano hits free agency, when Mark Teixeira hits free agency, Vernon Wells, Andruw Jones, etc, etc. Saying the Yankees will spend a lot of money on premium players proves…what, exactly? I’m not saying that doing that is wrong, but what point does it really make that isn’t ingrained in all YFs or SFs anyway?
    I don’t think anyone is trying to deny the Yankees will be a major player. But ultimately, you’re also backpedalling: “Ultimately, if the Yankees want and need DM next year (and he’s available), they will do what it takes to make that deal. You can call it arrogance if you want, but that’s just the way it’s always been.” Which is it? Will the Yankees sign any player they want through money-whipping and Yankee mystique? Or will they simply be a major player, along with the likes of the Angels, Dodgers, Red Sox, Cubs, Mets, and White Sox. Don’t underestimate the potential for other teams to over-value players. Maybe there’s a real-life example of that lesson in the last, oh, 30 days or so.

    Quo December 12, 2006, 12:11 pm
  • It’s naive of you to think that the Yanks aren’t a threat to win the bidding, though.
    Come on, can you please read my posts? The Yankees are a HUGE threat to win a re-bid. All I am saying is that is NOT A FOREGONE CONCLUSION that they will win one. The beef I have is the idea that if the Sox fail here, the Yankees are guaranteed to get DM. They aren’t. Anything asserted to the contrary, particularly by Yankees fans, exposes a sense of entitlement.

    SF December 12, 2006, 12:11 pm
  • Everyone knows this, lp. That isn’t the point. Going back to your original post, I see that was your point as well, so I think we agree there.
    So first the Yankees made a “token gesture.” Now they weren’t “suckered into making” an “inflated bid” like the Red Sox were. Which is it, lp? Were the Yankees uninterested or weren’t they? You’re moving the goalposts. And if the Yanks were interested, what about the fact that even if the Red Sox had bid $0, the Yankees STILL would have underestimated the market for Matsuzaka and lost to the Mets?
    The $51M is not going to be an impediment in this deal. Both sides know it’s going to get done; they’re just making the necessary public steps to keep everyone in their respective constituencies happy.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 12:12 pm
  • “Ultimately, if the Yankees want and need DM next year (and he’s available), they will do what it takes to make that deal. You can call it arrogance if you want, but that’s just the way it’s always been.”
    So the Red Sox are “bone-headed” for doing this, but if the Yankees do it, “that’s just the way it’s always been.”
    Interesting.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 12:14 pm
  • No one thought they’d be stupid enough to go to $51 million. (Please tell me with a straight face you knew it would take $50 mil to talk to DM) It was a bonehead move even if they can sign him this week because it would mean making a $100 mil investment in an arm that’s never thrown a pitch at the MLB level. Again, tell me how smart and shrewed that is.
    You’re right. They’re stupid, and like SF likes to say, being operated by a bunch of three year olds. I’m a thousand percent sure that if the bid was public knowledge, the Yankees would have outbid everyone.
    But I guess I’m stupid for thinking that the Yankees go above and beyond what other teams offer to get the player; we’ve never seen that, have we?
    But, I agree the Yankees are not as desparate as the Sox are. They can totally justify what they just gave AP, with a second year option none the less. What about the 25million bid for a very average Jamie Moyer who could very well end up in the bullpen?
    Your logic, as biased as it is, is not only off base, but completely void of reason.
    The Yankees didn’t win the process hence they did not think the guy was worth it.
    Is it possible, that the “bonehead” move just surpriesed everyone?
    Dude, you’re spewing sour grapes, and it’s pretty evident in your logic.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 12:18 pm
  • edit – surprised everyone.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 12:19 pm
  • 50 mil seems like a reasonable bid if you do some game theory and wants to ensure that you get him (also at the expense of the Yanks) and money is not a problem, of course.
    30 mil – what everyone “in the race” is bidding around. Rangers, etc. Turns out Yanks were in the neighborhood.
    36-40 mil – probably a reasonable Yankee over the market bid. Pre-bid you would expect the Yanks to be in this area. The toss up category because you won’t beat the Yanks by much under that assumption. The Mets ended up here.
    45 mil+ – Needed just to clear the Yanks by a good amount.
    51 mil is a bit over my “neighborhoods” of what I consider reasonable assumptions. But if you want to ensure something, a few million for “insurance” doesn’t seem that bad. Especially if you’re slightly paranoid that the Mets had the same thought..
    And maybe they thought that he would sign for a Ichiro-type of deal instead of the 12 mil per that they’re looking at. Though really, a few million over a few years after all this isn’t too reasonable to haggle that much about..

    Lar December 12, 2006, 12:21 pm
  • I agree, Lar. Lp is right about one thing — no one anticipated $51.1M. But when you’re figuring you need $45-48M just to be safe, why not go to $50M? And when you’re at $50, why not eBay it a bit and add the 1s, just in case, since Minaya, Hicks and Steinbrenner are all involved in the bidding?
    It’s a crazy bid, one no one expected, but it’s not without its logic, and it’s certainly not “bone-headed.” The only thing that would make it so, considering it doesn’t affect payroll and doesn’t count against the tax, would be if it somehow bankrupted JWH and the Red Sox. We know that’s not going to happen.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 12:26 pm
  • We know that’s not going to happen.
    Especially when you factor the price I just paid on Saturday for a five game pack. I had four computers going all day at work, and still did not get in till late, and still did not get the pack I wanted.
    It’s crazy trying to get into Fenway now.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 12:28 pm
  • Paul – ya, that’s why in that logic, it *feels* like the Yanks was making a token bid – it doesn’t feel like a *typical* Yankee overbid.
    But then they went out and bid 26 mil on Igawa, so I have no idea. Maybe they won’t sign him, and it’s something to fall back on, and since his agent is not Boras…
    But ya, I wasn’t particularly excited about Kei being Kei, at least not at that bid price..

    Lar December 12, 2006, 12:29 pm
  • ” Anything asserted to the contrary, particularly by Yankees fans, exposes a sense of entitlement.”
    I don’t seem to recall anyone saying the yanks are “guaranteed” to win DM if there is a repost. That is an assumption on your part, no doubt so you can throw in the tired old “entitlement” line. Please.

    Andrews December 12, 2006, 12:30 pm
  • You know what? I agree with parts of pretty much every post on this thread. Good reading.
    My two cents: I am 100% sure the deal will be done, but I’m loving the sight of Boras squeezing Theo’s cojones and getting way more money than the Sox hoped to pay. Otherwise, this is just a storm in a teacup; I don’t think it will affect the Sox ability to spend in the future and I think that DMat will be distressingly good for RSN for years to come. Sigh.

    Sam December 12, 2006, 12:31 pm
  • Andrews: “Ultimately, if the Yankees want and need DM next year (and he’s available), they will do what it takes to make that deal. You can call it arrogance if you want, but that’s just the way it’s always been.” -lp

    Quo December 12, 2006, 12:31 pm
  • and where is the word guarantee?
    Seems to me lp is just stating the obvious: that the yanks will be aggressive in going after what they want, and are a good bet to get it, given their resources and willingness to pay.

    Andrews December 12, 2006, 12:36 pm
  • The word guarantee isn’t in there. It’s a reasonable implication of his statement.
    I’ve gotta go split some hairs.

    Quo December 12, 2006, 12:37 pm
  • Given that it’s a blind bid and that the winning bid was so out there this year, I don’t see how you can suggest that the Yanks will win it next year. Sure, if Big George goes nuts and decides to bid $60m just to teach everyone a lesson, then the Yanks are a shoe-in, but I’m with the SFs on this one: I think the Mets will go really hard for it again – and what about the Rangers or the Cubs?
    I, for one, don’t like much of this YF attitude of “we have the most money, therefore we will always and automatically get the best players.”

    Sam December 12, 2006, 12:39 pm
  • Andrews:
    You’re kidding, right? That statement by lp is basically saying that DM is Yankees’ property if he re-enters the market. How else can you interpret “do what it takes to make the deal”? If I say “I am going to do what it takes to go get a bagel at lunch”, I am saying, in effect “I am 100% sure to be getting a bagel for lunch”.
    At some point, giving up a position is the wisest move. You are wrong on this one.
    And I am not, in fact, getting a bagel for lunch.

    SF December 12, 2006, 12:40 pm
  • “do what it takes to make the deal”
    But, if the Red Sox do this, they’re boneheads. The Yankees should do whatever necessary to get the man, as long as they don’t overbid by too much.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 12:49 pm
  • “So first the Yankees made a “token gesture.” Now they weren’t “suckered into making” an “inflated bid” like the Red Sox were. Which is it, lp?”
    Why is that an either/or statement Paul? I don’t follow your logic. The Yankees threw in a token bid to get DM on the cheap, just in case anyone was sleeping. That’s not an uncommon auction strategy.
    And I go back to what I said earlier: Even if the Sox close this deal, it will probably be in the neighborhood of $100 million. As such it is a boneheaded deal that is being made by a DESPERATE team that finished in THIRD PLACE instead of contending for a pennant. The Yanks, even though they didn’t win a WS, still won the division and finished ahead of the Toronto Blue Jays. If Big Stien’s team collapsed as yours did, you’d better believe he’d be making some big and desperate moves over the offseason. Heck, the Yankees would be making that move even if they were swept in a 5 game series by the Sox during the regular season.
    It’s not that the Sox are so flush with cash and savvy, it’s that they are desperate to turn around the train wreck of 2006. If the Sox won the division, would they be forking over $51 million just to sit down with a guy who’s never played MLB?
    But, hey I and all of Yankeeland are sour grapes over the fact that the Sox are rolling the dice to the tune of $100 million on a totally unproven player. Do you honestly believe that Brad? If so you are really far gone pal.
    BTW, when I speak of RSN hype and chest pounding, this is the type of stuff I’m talking about.
    And Quo, don’t assume I meant “guaranteed” when I didn’t say that. Nothing is guaranteed except that the Yankees will put up bid with the intention of winning if they determine that they are in need of DM’s services.
    30 mil says: “We’ll be there if someone falters” 51 says: “We’re going to win no matter what.” It’s naïve to think that the Yanks miscalculated in thinking that 30 mil would secure DM.

    lp December 12, 2006, 12:53 pm
  • “But, if the Red Sox do this, they’re boneheads. The Yankees should do whatever necessary to get the man, as long as they don’t overbid by too much.”
    The Yankees have a little bit more cash in the bank. Don’t you agree Brad?

    lp December 12, 2006, 12:56 pm
  • I’m not sure how to make this point any clearer. Conventional wisdom had the top bids at $20M or so. This made the Yankees bid of $30M an overbid, albeit a somewhat reasonable one given the market and the potential talent. Again, I say that the Yankees braintrust wanted this guy. They didn’t throw a bid up just in case the bids all ended up falling around the PROJECTED amount of $20M. If they thought the bids would fall around the area, they would have bid about $20.0001M. The Mets overbid significantly, and the Red Sox even more, both teams having incentive to do so BASED on the Yankees desire for Matsuzaka as well.
    As for your comment about not assuming you meant guaranteed…well. I think SF’s bagel analogy is simultaneously disturbing and accurate.

    Quo December 12, 2006, 12:59 pm
  • The Yankees have a little bit more cash in the bank. Don’t you agree Brad?
    So now, you’re the Red Sox accountant too? How the hell do I know who has more money in their respective accounts? Do you? And why does that matter?

    Brad December 12, 2006, 1:12 pm
  • Boras is running his mouth on Cold Pizza if any of you are near a TV.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 1:13 pm
  • …both the yanks and sox have some soul-searching to do if this deal doesn’t get done:
    the yanks have to ask themselves how they were outbid by so much for a player that most “experts” believe will be a difference maker for a number of years…i don’t buy the notion that theirs was a token bid, and it was simple disinterest….no, i think they miscalculated what their competitors were willing to do…they blew it, period…
    the sox have to ask themselves how they got into a position where they are philosophically miles apart from boras with only a couple of days to go…and how they could have misjudged that their posting fee would be irrelevant in the discussions about compensation for the player…i heard this early on, and predicted it would be tossed back at them, that they thought they might get “help” from the lions on the fee, and felt that a lower offer might be acceptable to the player given that they had already committed so much to get him…we were also told not to worry that the sox could come up with the money, they are rich, and could even mortgage fenway if they had to…they don’t seem as bold now…

    dc December 12, 2006, 1:17 pm
  • why the hell is Boras on tv running his mouth when he should be in negotiations with Theo and Larry.

    TJ Sox Fan December 12, 2006, 1:19 pm
  • From there:
    More offers came today…
    Posting system is a mess (for him anyhow)…
    I’m not the bad guy here, it’s the system….
    Andy Pettitte adds seven million to luxury tax to the Yankees, but that’s not included in his worth…
    Not commenting on the negotiations as far as dollars go.
    Matsuzuka is the best pitcher in the league right now if he signs…
    They have rec’d one offer from Boston today, but are expecting another later today…
    Six teams left in the running for Barry Zito…four from the AL! Who?
    Matsuzaka will not be allowed to come back next year because the option for Seibu to him is for two years, not one, so a bidding price will have to be again established. But, the Lions will have to agreee to this once again.
    I think this will get done today or tomorrow. Right now, the physical is one of the things we’re having trouble getting worked out because Matsuzuka isn’t feeling well…
    That’s really all I got for those not around a TV.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 1:20 pm
  • During his TV appearance, Boras is sending messages to the Sox brass. One blink means it’s a go. Two blinks in quick succession mean it’s a no-go. Three blinks and a turn to his left means DM is intrigued but has serious reservations….

    Nick-YF December 12, 2006, 1:22 pm
  • What happens if the Sox sign DM? What will the contingent of cynical Yankees fans do? Will they laugh at the dollars? Will they begin the “DM hasn’t proven anything yet!” cries? What happens if the Sox don’t sign DM? Will those same cynical Yankees fans laugh at the cheapness of their rivals, mock their lack of moxie? Will they begin the “how could they NOT SIGN THE NEXT PEDRO!?” cries?
    These cynics must be really conflicted right now, not knowing what they are going to have to post here…
    ;-)

    SF December 12, 2006, 1:36 pm
  • “why the hell is Boras on tv running his mouth when he should be in negotiations with Theo and Larry.”
    AND he got a deal done for gagne today. 1 year, $8M with texas.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 1:37 pm
  • Well, at least Gagne won’t have to re-prove himself under any kind of pressure…

    SF December 12, 2006, 1:38 pm
  • exactly.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 1:39 pm
  • I feel this opens up an Otsuka to the Sox trade possibility.

    Nick-YF December 12, 2006, 1:40 pm
  • “I think this will get done today or tomorrow. Right now, the physical is one of the things we’re having trouble getting worked out because Matsuzuka isn’t feeling well…”
    That sounds a lot like they settled on a deal. The physical is generally the last step before signing the contract, correct?

    Scott SF December 12, 2006, 1:42 pm
  • will boras mention gagne’s contract when discussing numbers with the sox? my guess is yes. (he’s probably texting theo at this very moment.)

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 1:42 pm
  • Right now, the physical is one of the things we’re having trouble getting worked out because Matsuzuka isn’t feeling well…
    Who is the idiot who thought “Chili’s” would be a good introduction for DM to American food?

    SF December 12, 2006, 1:43 pm
  • slightly off-topic, but does anyone know where the “pavilion standing room” tickets at fenway place you? i scored some for the 2nd game of the season… just curious. they cost a bit more than the other standing room tickets offered…

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 1:53 pm
  • Matsuzaka, Okajawi, Kuwata, Otsuka? geesh we add an alias to the sox Japan Red Sox

    TJ Sox Fan December 12, 2006, 2:05 pm

  • uh…
    …but how about those negotiations, huh?

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 2:05 pm
  • Pavilion standing room isn’t bad – I had it for the All-Star game there, and it was pretty good.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 2:08 pm
  • brad, is that 2nd level, or do i mingle with the normies?

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 2:10 pm
  • Based on Brad’s summary, if Boras is now saying he thinks it will get done, that means it is done.
    And I think Gagne’s signing means we’ve seen the last of either Coco Crisp or Wily Mo Pena in Boston. Otsuka will be a Sock.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 2:10 pm
  • re: otsuka
    there was an article at nypost.com that said that both the sox and the yankees were kicking the tires on a deal for pittsburg’s mike gonzalez.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 2:19 pm
  • (pittsburgh’s)

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 2:20 pm
  • I saw the i/v on Cold Pizza and I didn’t see Boras say he thought the deal would get done. He said that every negotiator should approach things in good faith and that’s what their doing.
    Again, I still think it’ll get done, but Boras didn’t say that (from what I saw).

    Sam December 12, 2006, 2:23 pm
  • I don’t know who I want less: Gonzalez or Otsuka. The former skipped all of September last year because of arm trouble and pitched in the NL, the latter is a 34-year-old 1-inning-only guy who got completely hammered by the Yanks. And neither are worth much more than WMP. Ugh…
    And yeah, I saw it too…I didn’t hear him say he thought it’d get done.

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 2:24 pm
  • Well, there we go, then.
    I remember Otsuka primarily for Big Papi’s three-run walk-off against him at Fenway. But his numbers aren’t bad, and he pitched in a hitter’s park.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 2:28 pm
  • desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 2:41 pm
  • If anything, the Matsuzaka saga is definitely getting interesting. On the
    one hand, you have the Red Sox trying to justify offering D-Mat an Adam
    Eaton-type deal, and on the other, you have Boras claiming he should be
    paid $100mn over five years. That doesn’t sound like the parties are very
    close. All along, I think the Red Sox believed that they would have all
    the leverage in the negotiation, but now they are finding out otherwise.
    For example, Boras already has the Red Sox flying across country uninvited
    to offer a second proposal. As a result, the Sox are essentially bidding
    against themselves. Consider the following quote from Theo:
    “It’s highly unusual but again signing Matsuzaka is extremely important to
    the Boston Red Sox and we’re very committed to making sure that happens,”
    Epstein said. “Although it’s normally not good policy to make a second
    offer without receiving a counteroffer, we want to demonstrate to
    Matsuzaka and to fans of Japanese baseball around the world just how
    important this is to us. Matsuzaka represents more than himself. He really
    represents the entire nation of baseball fans who have been looking
    forward to this day.”
    I think that statement represents a change in strategy for the Red Sox.
    Instead of relying on Matsuzaka having to return to Japan as leverage,
    they are playing the “national pride” card. If they aren’t careful,
    however, that tact could backfire on them. After all, isn’t the Japanese
    national treasure worth a salary of $20mn? Then again, Theo might just be
    laying the ground work for saving face if a deal can’t be reached?
    Clearly, the Red Sox are going to have to pay a lot more for D-Mat than
    they originally thought. I have a feeling they expected they would be able
    to recoup some of the posting fee by means of a side deal with Seibu. I
    also think they figured they’d be able to strong arm Matsuzaka into
    accepting a discounted deal. With both scenarios coming apart, the price
    tag keeps becoming more prohibitive. Some observers have suggested that at
    the price it will take to sign him, the Red Sox may actually be better off
    letting him go. Personally, I think that would be such an embarrassment
    that a better solution would be to compromise with Boras and sign a
    shorter deal for a smaller annual value, while forgoing arbitration rights.
    In addition to Theo’s comments, the words of Boras are also intriguing:
    “One thing is clear — D-Mat will someday be a major league player,” Boras
    said. “We have further negotiating to do. The deadline’s not here in five
    minutes. The parties do understand what this player’s value is in the free-
    agent system.”
    Maybe I am having too much fun with this, but it seems to me as if Boras
    has a major card up his sleeve. Perhaps, he is planning to “buy” D-Mat’s
    rights from Seibu? I am sure he could afford to do it…maybe $25mn from
    Boras to Seibu, plus a percentage of both the contract and certain other
    salaries (i.e., endorsements and personal services)? That might be
    fanciful, but there doesn’t seem to be any rule that would prevent it.

    Will December 12, 2006, 2:43 pm
  • “These cynics must be really conflicted right now, not knowing what they are going to have to post here…”
    “These cynics” are wondering just how you and yours will try to spin it if the 3 stooges blow another one.
    Also, see lp above. Re: guarantee.
    Hope you enjoyed your bagel.

    Andrews December 12, 2006, 2:46 pm
  • Will, Lou Melendez, MLB’s VP for international relations, is quoted in today’s NYT saying that if Boras bought DM’s rights, neither MLB nor japanese baseball would recognize the resulting free agency.

    Andrews December 12, 2006, 2:55 pm
  • Yeah, I posted that link yesterday but nobody seemed to notice…heh. Boston or bust, at least as far as 07 is concerned.

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 3:01 pm
  • he is still under contract with seibu… or is that “bust”? i guess a case could be made.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 3:02 pm
  • I consider 7-$10MM less playing for a team that doesn’t want you in a country that’s going to look down on you “bust.” Maybe that’s just me.

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 3:08 pm
  • i admit that my knowledge of japanese culture consists solely of a love of good sushi, but will he really be looked down upon if he plays there next year? i know that he said his goodbyes, that he was setting off to represent his country, etc. but after an awkward few months, how could the fans not love being able to see him play?

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 3:13 pm
  • Will, I think you might be letting your enjoyment get in the way of your good sense. Taken together, Boras’ comments, Epstein’s comments and Henry’s comments indicate that ultimately, a deal will be done. I’d guess that everyone is playing out publicly a charade they all know has to take place before something gets done.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 3:15 pm
  • The Japanese culture hates greed, especially greed that harms the greater good (Seibu losing the posting fee).
    It would be very bad for Matsuzaka to turn down a big contract and return.

    LocklandSF December 12, 2006, 3:17 pm
  • There’s talk that Boras’ “Fort Knox” line was not taken so well over there.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 3:18 pm
  • if sox fans can so readily forgive manny each time he says he wants out, surely the fans in japan can receive their best pitcher when he comes home. it would be a failed negotiation, not a shameful disgrace on his part. he’s not negotiating. he can play the part of the victim.
    that said, i agree that this will be wrapped up in time.
    …unfortunately.

    Anonymous December 12, 2006, 3:21 pm
  • that was me. i don’t know why my posts are anonymous from time to time…

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 3:23 pm
  • I don’t forgive Manny, I think of Manny as a Pod, I really don’t think he ever knows what he thinks.
    This situation is totally different though, IMHO.

    LocklandSF December 12, 2006, 3:25 pm
  • “MLB’s VP for international relations, is quoted in today’s NYT saying that if Boras bought DM’s rights, neither MLB nor japanese baseball would recognize the resulting free agency.”
    **********
    I think the more important question to ask is does MLB have the authority to tell, say Brain Cashman, that he can not recognize Matsuzaka as a free agent. And, if MLB tries to do this, can/will Matsuzaka and Boras use the court system to intervene?
    As for all the notions about a deal having to get done because everone wants it to, well, that’s just silly. Clearly, the Red Sox have one position and Boras/Matsuzaka have another. If both sides can not be satisfied, a deal will not get done.
    Another misconception is the idea that somehow Japanese culture will dictate Matsuzaka sign for less than his perceived value. By hiring Boras, I think Matsuzaka made it very clear what his priorities are.

    Will December 12, 2006, 3:25 pm
  • 1st off Manny has never told the fans he wanted out. He very well may but hes never told us directly.
    2nd Theres a HUGE cultural difference between the USA and Japan. If he goes back after turning down say $60 million over 6 years and at the same time costing his team the $51.1 million, he will not be welcomed back with open arms.

    TJ Sox Fan December 12, 2006, 3:25 pm
  • Further, I don’t know if this is going to be an issue or not…but Boras’ negotiation tactics are about as un-Japanese as you can get. And this I do know for a fact, because, oddly enough, I spent part of my spring semester last year studying traditional Japanese business negotiations.
    Step one usually involves the two parties getting to know each other; the idea is to build a bond of mutual trust and respect before actually sitting down to hammer out the details. Matsuzaka, as we know, doesn’t seem to have been a part of the negotiations.
    Put it this way: If an American businessman were to try to build any sort of relationship in Japan, Boars’ tactics would get him sent home in a matter of days. The hardline, straight-to-business mindset is considered impolite and undesirable. Further, I would imagine that Matsuzaka’s apparent absence from the negotiations, and his willingness to put full control in his ‘greedy,’ aggressive, fairly rude agent looks bad as it is…if a deal isn’t made, it’ll look downright awful.
    And it really, really doesn’t matter what Brian Cashman thinks…if Selig says, “he can’t play for your team,” he won’t play for your team. Quit deluding yourself. He might challenge it in court, but that’d take forever and wouldn’t change anything for 2007. (PS: I’m not saying Matsuzaka necessarily cares about any of this cultural stuff…but as far as public opinion is concerned, he will suffer an extreme loss of face.)

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 3:29 pm
  • the manny thing was a dig. not to be taken seriously. but forgiving players isn’t unprecedented.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 3:29 pm
  • “Further, I don’t know if this is going to be an issue or not.”
    I don’t remember what my first sentence was going to be…but disregard that ‘further.’ Heh.

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 3:30 pm
  • I think the more important question to ask is does MLB have the authority to tell, say Brain Cashman, that he can not recognize Matsuzaka as a free agent. And, if MLB tries to do this, can/will Matsuzaka and Boras use the court system to intervene?
    __________________________________________
    Boras has already failed to negotiate in good faith with Boston failing to even make a offer to Boston after 27 days.
    MLB has the right to dictate to its member teams what players are eligible to play within the league. Brian Cashman cant just go out and sign Matsuzaka because Boras says hes a free agent, he would have to be a recognized free agent by MLB.
    Boras can take the matter to court beforehand and if then the court ruled that MLB had to recognize him as a free agent then and only then could teams negotiate and sign him.
    I personally dont see a court ruling in favor or Boras and Matsuzaka.

    TJ Sox Fan December 12, 2006, 3:31 pm
  • Gabe Kapler has retired and will be named Manager of the Greenville Drive, Boston’s A-South Atlantic League team.
    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

    TJ Sox Fan December 12, 2006, 3:34 pm
  • i don’t think this will go to court. they’re going to sign a deal. both sides are just going through the motions. the sox need to try to keep the contract as reasonable as they can, and it is boras’ job to inflate the numbers to the greatest possible amount.
    in mid-july, this negotiation will be a footnote.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 3:34 pm
  • “These cynics must be really conflicted right now, not knowing what they are going to have to post here…”
    There is absolutely no conflict with this cynic because the success of this deal cannot be measured this week – but the failure certainly can. Essentially, the Sox can be proven to be boneheads at any one of several milestones:
    1. If they don’t close on Friday.
    2. If they close on Friday for the amount of money that we’re all pretty much in agreement that it will take to close AND DM is subpar a la Beckett next season.
    3. If they sign DM and he turns in a lights out season #1 but tanks in season #2.
    4. If DM gets significantly injured at any point after they sign him prior to season #3
    Essentially for Henry and Theo to be anointed geniuses as Brad believes them to be, DM will have to be one of the league’s elite pitchers for a significant period of time. $100 million isn’t appropriate for a #3 or below serviceable starter. Nor is $100 million appropriate for a pitcher to turn in a John Papelbon type season where they’re lights out for the first four months then are unavailable down the stretch due to fatigue. So I don’t want to hear ‘I told you so’ when DM pitches a no-hitter in spring training. (And if he does, that’s just the type chest pounding we’ll get from RSN)
    There is only one way that this deal can work for the Sox and there are many ways for it to fail. DM won’t sell tickets and garner the big TV ratings if he is merely average. He will not be a shot in the arm for all of MLB with 12 wins and a 4.25 ERA.
    So if they close by Friday SF, I will still be saying that DM is an unproven unknown – which he still will be on Sat. AM. (BTW, until Paps pitches a complete season, he’s still unproven. But that’s another thread.)
    If they don’t close on Friday, my feeling is that the $51 million dollar cover charge played a significant role in their inability to compensate DM for more than “Adam Eaton money”. SF if you take the front money out of the equation, do you think DM is worth only 10 mil a year in 2006 hot stove dollars?

    lp December 12, 2006, 3:37 pm
  • That’s pretty cool…Kapler’d probably be the ultimate player’s manager. Really glad to see him sticking around in the organization, he deserves it. Though I wouldn’t have minded seeing him in the broadcast booth somewhere…

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 3:39 pm
  • i had heard rumors at the end of the season that kapler was going to join the sox radio booth… maybe trot could get that gig when he’s ready.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 3:43 pm
  • somebody just filled me in on what they’re currently shoveling over at WEEI.
    …wow.
    manny’s being traded for a few prospects after they sign matsuzaka to a contract that would make him the highest paid pitcher in history. (including zito’s impending deal…)
    this is all supposedly being presented as an inevitability, by the way.
    how do these guys stay on the air?

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 3:48 pm
  • “DM won’t sell tickets and garner the big TV ratings if he is merely average.”
    Because we all know Boston needs him to sell tickets. :)
    I really, really, really don’t feel like going through this again…but the question of whether it’s fair to just include the full $51MM as part of payroll has already been hotly debated. Most SF’s say no, most YF’s say yes; consensus was basically that there are business opportunities we are probably unaware of that justify the posting fee. If there weren’t, they never would have made that claim or bid that high because it makes no sense from a business perspective to simply resign yourself to paying a pitcher $20MM a year.

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 3:49 pm
  • “how do these guys stay on the air?”
    Idiots like listening to other idiots?

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 3:51 pm
  • With all due respect to destrub, I don’t think you can paint the Japanese culture with such a broad stoke. I having a feeling Japanese people are as individual as Americans and do not necessarily walk in lock step with how they are defined in a text book. Otherwise, why would Matsuzaka sign Boras in the first place?
    To TJ Sox Fan, can you really not see a court ruling in favor of Boras and against MLB? I think Donald Fehr and the MLBPA have done a very good job over the years showing just how vulnerable MLB is from a litigation standpoint. I would expect no less from Boras.
    Finally, it is absurd to suggest that Boras has negotiated in bad faith. If he truly believes that Matsuzaka should command $100mn/5years then it would be criminal for him to accept half that amount. Just because the Red Sox and Boras disagree over how to value Matsuzaka doesn’t mean
    one party has to be negotiating in bad faith.

    Will December 12, 2006, 3:53 pm
  • Essentially, the Red Sox are in a no-win situation here with regards to lp. If they sign him, they’re stupid for spending that much money, and if they don’t they’re stupid for botching the deal.
    Really, lp. If the sign him great, and if they don’t, neither do the Yankees, so great again. If they don’t come to a deal, the Red Sox have improved their offense a significant deal already, and they likely make a trade for a pitcher. If they do, they end up with another pitcher who’s likely to be very good.
    How are they stupid exactly? Besides your blinding bias, how are they losers in this situation?
    If this kid goes home, how does he justify to the Lions that he did this in good faith, and now they must give the money back? How does Boras expect to get any more talent from that part of the world knowing there is a good chance they don’t actually sign?
    How is that stupid, lp?

    Brad December 12, 2006, 3:55 pm
  • Tha “bad faith” comes in where Boras never contacts the other parties while time ticks away. That would be pretty hard to prove now that they’re talking face to face.
    The only thing MLB fears is loss of its anti-trust exemption. As long as it keeps that, it can and will decide who can and cannot play in its own league — and under what processes they will be introduced into that league — within reason.
    Japanese individuals may have individual feelings, but things like culture and respect are deeply ingrained regardless of country. Look at the collective reactions of fans to American sports stars who have been viewed as disrespecting America by whatever means. There’s lots of wiggle room as far as varying opinions, but there was certainly a common denominator.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 3:58 pm
  • Does anyone HONESTLY think this deal won’t get done? Please.

    Triskaidekaphobia December 12, 2006, 3:58 pm
  • > If this kid goes home, how does he justify to the Lions that he did this in good faith, and now they must give the money back?
    Because he has to pitch for them next year. Why is he obligated to take a deal he in which he thinks he is not getting paid what he wants?
    > How does Boras expect to get any more talent from that part of the world knowing there is a good chance they don’t actually sign?
    Because his will still be one of the most sought-after representation agencies in professional sports. If the deal doesn’t happen, it will not torpedo Boras, as much as some seem to want that to happen.

    attackgerbil December 12, 2006, 4:00 pm
  • Look I’m just repeating what I got out of Japanese bussiness-culture books. I didn’t say everyone would hate him…but are you telling me you don’t think Japanese columnists and talking heads would jump on him the same way guys like that jump on players over here? And that they wouldn’t have a following, the same way they do here? Reaction would be mixed, but don’t underestimate the import placed on teamwork and group dynamics; not signing would be a major transgression, and I’m not the only one who says so; Japanese journalists quoted in a recent article said pretty much the same thing. (If someone happens to know the link that’d be a help…I can’t find it again.)

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 4:03 pm
  • > Why is he obligated to take a deal he in which he thinks he is not getting paid what he wants?
    Because going back to Japan means he gets paid a fraction of that, with risk of injury or decline forever costing him his chance for a big payday in an atmosphere in which his own team and fans despise the way he through his agent used them and cost them a chance to improve.
    There is significant risk of going back to Japan — far more than signing an American contract for less than what Boras says an elite pitcher is worth, particularly when you factor in his unrestricted ability for Japanese merchandise.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 4:05 pm
  • I’m not in agreement here, AG. And, FWIW neither is anyone who gets paid to talk about this on TV or the radio.
    If Boras sends this kid back to the Lions, after the Red Sox have essentially carried them out of bankruptcy, he’s going to be public enemy number one within that organization. If he was so important to them, they would have never granted his wish to post to begin with. That 51mill pays the salary of the lions for 3+ years – or, they could have back the guy and inherit all their financial troubles once again.
    Besides, I’m with Trisk – is there anyone who thinks it isn’t going to get done?

    Brad December 12, 2006, 4:06 pm
  • Boras’ tactic of not responding to the Red Sox initial offer isn’t a sign of “bad faith”. It is a negotiating tactic employed when one thinks they have the upper hand (or have received a low ball offer). Apparently, the strategy worked so well that the Red Sox flew across country with an unsolicited, new offer. When you consider that Boras got the Sox to up their offer without asking them to, I’d say the strategy has worked to this point. Now, if Boras has no intention of striking a deal at any price (for example, he names a price, the Sox agree and then he backs off it), then I’d he agree that he was bargaining in bad faith.
    I also understand the notion of “culture” being expressed, but also think Matsuzaka has given evidence of his priorities by hiring Boras. Also, included among conventional wisdom about Japanese business dealings is the notion of respect. Well, who is to say the Japanese wont see the Red Sox unwillingness to pay Matsuzaka in line with other top pitchers as a sign of “disrespect”?
    Finally, as to your point about MLB saying who can and can’t play in its league…well, MLB has already determined that international players without club affiliations are considered to be free agents (think of a Cuban defector for example). Assuming Matsuzaka was able to buy his free agency from Seibu, MLB’s excluding him from signing a contract would be discriminatory in that it would be in conflict with precedent. Many a time, MLB has gone to court thinking it had anti-trust protection, only to find out differently and pay the price. I am not so sure Selig would want to fight such a battle so close to retirement, especially when he is trying to solidify his legacy amid the steroid circus.

    Will December 12, 2006, 4:12 pm
  • “How are they stupid exactly? Besides your blinding bias, how are they losers in this situation?”
    I explained very clearly how they can be losers in the post you are responding to. You just didn’t like those potential scenarios. But they are all very real. So put down the hype pipe.
    “If this kid goes home, how does he justify to the Lions that he did this in good faith, and now they must give the money back?”
    You are desperately clinging to hope aren’t you? Oh shame on DM for not taking less than his value just so he can make his team $51 million dollars richer. As said before, that blanket notion of Japanese culture is total BS – especially when applied to big business. If it were about him doing other wealthy entities a financial favor he never would have signed with Scott Boras. He has the shark repping him because he wants a blockbuster deal. The problem here is the Henry’s eyes are bigger than his stomach and he’s in over his head. (BTW, your logic runs on a two way street. How do you think Japanese fans will feel about a national treasure being offered peanuts to play in the US?)
    “How does Boras expect to get any more talent from that part of the world knowing there is a good chance they don’t actually sign?”
    Not signing today for the chump change Henry is offering at the moment doesn’t mean that he won’t sign down the line for bigger bucks. Boras is Boras, everyone in the baseball world knows he drives a hard bargain for record contracts on behalf of premium talent. The only people who look lame at this moment are the Red Sox, that’s why they’re coming to Boras instead of the other way around.
    And I’ll put to you the same question I put to SF: If you take the cover charge out of the equation, is DK only worth $10 mil a year in this market given what Meche and Lilly have received?

    lp December 12, 2006, 4:15 pm
  • Now that the 51 mil is impeding the talks, do we calculate that in the cost of acquiring DM?

    Epstein agreed Matsuzaka is worth $100 million — but unlike Boras, Epstein includes the posting fee in his math.
    “That magnitude is certainly the right ballpark for the commitment of the ballclub,” Epstein said.

    Lar December 12, 2006, 4:16 pm
  • A certain JD Drew didn’t sign with the Phillies, and got what he wanted the next year. Didn’t quite stop people from going to Boras though..

    Lar December 12, 2006, 4:18 pm
  • “Does anyone HONESTLY think this deal won’t get done? Please.”
    We’re talking about the Red Sox and the same people who left the A-Rod deal on the table using the same tactics.
    I wouldn’t be surprised either way. I think the shocker will be the numbers – if it gets done.

    lp December 12, 2006, 4:19 pm
  • Paul said> Because going back to Japan means he gets paid a fraction of that
    For now. It’s obviously a risk he’s willing to consider for a bigger payday later. See JDD.
    Brad said> I’m not in agreement here, AG. And, FWIW neither is anyone who gets paid to talk about this on TV or the radio.
    Not in agreement regarding Matsuzaka being obligated, or not in agreement regarding Boras?
    Say the deal doesn’t happen: will it be a popular decision? Certainly not with the many Sox fans who thought that by bidding the unheard-of posting fee this thing was a sure deal. Most certainly not with the Seibu Lions who are in financial trouble. But Matsuzaka is still under no obligation to sign.

    attackgerbil December 12, 2006, 4:20 pm
  • “Assuming Matsuzaka was able to buy his free agency from Seibu, MLB’s excluding him from signing a contract would be discriminatory in that it would be in conflict with precedent.”
    Are you forgetting that MLB has an agreement with Japan’s professional baseball league, and that Japan’s commish wouldn’t agree to it? And that Cuba isn’t recognized as a legitimate business partner, so it doesn’t matter what they say anyway? There is no conflict in precedent.
    “And I’ll put to you the same question I put to SF: If you take the cover charge out of the equation, is DK only worth $10 mil a year in this market given what Meche and Lilly have received?”
    You don’t know what the new offer is. (Last I checked, lowballing was common for the beginnings of a negotiation…that’s why it’s called ‘negotiating.’) Matsuzaka is worth 11-13$; the major issue is that Boras is asking for 17-20.

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 4:21 pm
  • I think the deal will get done if the Red Sox realize they can’t discount Matsuzaka’s contact by factoring in the posting fee. In other words, if Theo puts 5 years/$80mn or 3 years/$45mn with revocation of arbitration on the table, I definitely think the deal gets done.

    Will December 12, 2006, 4:22 pm
  • We’re talking about the Red Sox and the same people who left the A-Rod deal on the table using the same tactics.
    and then won the world series, so that hurt them how?
    Guy, you’re so off base here. I’m sure after this gets done you’ll be the first one screaming about the money and how stupid the front office is for caving to Boras’ demands.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 4:22 pm
  • “Matsuzaka is worth 11-13$”
    Make that 12-15…heh.

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 4:23 pm
  • The Red Sox will be wrong no matter what they do, as established in the mind of lp. This is clear, as he has now stated for the record. As long as it is clear that lp thinks the Sox can do no right, that’s all we need to know. All of lp’s comments should be considered in this light from here on out.
    As for “what Matsuzaka is worth”, I HAVE NO CLUE!! In my mind, you can bracket Matsuzaka, if you want to make an educated guess. He’s clearly worth more than any #1 draft pick, by a good margin. He’s also worth less per year than a #1 proven starter (say, Roy Halladay or Curt Schilling). Plus, he’s got extra-baseball cache, which affects his worth. So if I had to make a stupid, amateurish guess at things, and to reiterate my guess is WORTHLESS, I’d say he deserves to at least be offered Ted Lilly money (the fact that Ted Lilly is a mediocrity is an argument against that, but hey, at least Ted Lilly has proven he IS a mediocrity), but no way does he deserve to be paid more than any pitcher in baseball history. So that puts the salary somewhere in the 55-65-75M range, for 4-5-6 years. I predicted, way back when, that the deal would be for 5/68 (this was before Meche and Lilly signed), and I can’t change my guess. So there you have it: amateur hour freakanomics, baseball-style.

    SF December 12, 2006, 4:23 pm
  • lp comments should be taken with a grain of salt (or Vodka) if you’re trying to make reason of them. Not only do his comments pin him against himself, but they make no logical sense.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 4:25 pm
  • This is part of why I don’t get involved in discussions like this, concerning the hot stove in particular. A lot of moaning and groaning over nothing in particular. Both sides wanting to make their team look good and the other foolish. Not that I’m saying the discussion is worthless, just that it tires me out and usually goes nowhere.

    Devine December 12, 2006, 4:26 pm
  • True enough, Devine. The key is KNOWING that we’re talking about nothing…

    SF December 12, 2006, 4:28 pm
  • Are you forgetting that MLB has an agreement with Japan’s professional baseball league, and that Japan’s commish wouldn’t agree to it? And that Cuba isn’t recognized as a legitimate business partner, so it doesn’t matter what they say anyway? There is no conflict in precedent.
    ******************
    If Seibu allows Matsuzaka to buy his own free agency, then the Japanese commissioner would have no say in the matter, unless you are suggesting that he would block the deal and force Seibu to forfeit an enormous amount of money. I find that highly unlikely. As for Cuba being recognized as a legitimate business partner, I am not sure how that is relevant. We are discussing individuals having the right to play major league baseball, not the favored nation status of countries.
    “And I’ll put to you the same question I put to SF: If you take the cover charge out of the equation, is DK only worth $10 mil a year in this market given what Meche and Lilly have received?”
    *******************
    Absolutely not…in this market, DK is worth at least $15-16mn and perhaps $20mn per year, especially when you consider he also brings with him revenue opportunities that the typical FA can not offer.
    You don’t know what the new offer is. (Last I checked, lowballing was common for the beginnings of a negotiation…that’s why it’s called ‘negotiating.’) Matsuzaka is worth 11-13$; the major issue is that Boras is asking for 17-20.
    *******************
    I don’t know what the initial offer was, but the Boston Globe (a mouthpiece for the Sox) reported it has $30-40mn over 5 years. Low ball offers like that usually don’t get a response. You may think Matsuzaka is only with $11-13mn, but clearly D-Mat and Boras disagree. If the Sox refuse to move from that number, I think he will go back to Japan.

    Will December 12, 2006, 4:31 pm
  • the hot stove season is all about wild speculation, getting your hopes up, watching your hopes get dashed, and talking a boatload of smack without the distraction of actual games getting in the way.
    after the dust settles around this thing, there will be precious little to get worked up about until pitchers and catchers report.
    try to enjoy it.
    that concludes my (unsolicited) public service announcement.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 4:32 pm
  • “[I]s DK only worth $10 mil a year in this market given what Meche and Lilly have received?”
    I don’t know what he’s worth, but I know that DM is NOT in the same market as Lily and Meche, so using them as benchmarks is dumb. You have not yet answered my question, lp, of why Weaver and Papelbon can’t get their agents to call their teams this off-seson and demand at least $10M because that’s what Lily and Meche are making, and hey, they’re better pitchers (and younger) than Lily and Meche.
    The answer, of course: They’re not free agents! Guess what? Neither is Matsuzaka!

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 4:34 pm
  • Nicely said, YFIB. All this speculation is hurting my already very tired brain.

    Brad December 12, 2006, 4:34 pm
  • “If Seibu allows Matsuzaka to buy his own free agency, then the Japanese commissioner would have no say in the matter, unless you are suggesting that he would block the deal and force Seibu to forfeit an enormous amount of money.”
    YES! That’s EXACTLY what I’m suggesting! That’s what Lou Melendez JUST SAID in the Times. Japanese professional baseball don’t want it to be that easy for their players to flee the country…thus the creation of the posting system. And Cuba is relevant because MLB and Japanese professional baseball have an agreement with regards to MLB’s importing Japanese talent. There is no such agreement with Cuba…

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 4:35 pm
  • if the yankees had won the bidding, and the negotiations were still going on, my brain would be sore, too.
    …right now it’s just itchy.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 4:36 pm
  • I agree, YFiB. It’s fun to get caught up in the emotion and hilarity of rumors and potential changes and (hopefully) improvements — it’s kind of like a circus.
    Will: The Japanese commissioner has already said he also would not recognize D-Mat’s free agency in such a scenario, so it’s time to give up the pipe dream, emphasis on “pipe.”
    If the Sox offer about $12M/year, Boras/Matsuzaka will take it. They will, and they will.

    Paul SF December 12, 2006, 4:37 pm
  • Here.
    “If the Lions knew they were not getting $51.1 million from the Red Sox, they might be willing to take half that from Boras. Boras could then market Matsuzaka as a free agent, and the pitcher would stand to make much more than he would get from the Red Sox now. But Melendez said that was not an option.
    “The Commissioner’s office would not recognize that free agency, and the Japanese commissioner’s office is in agreement,” Melendez said.”

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 4:38 pm
  • Paul
    Weaver and Papelbon are under contract and CBA rules. DM is not. He is also not a free agent, but is under Japanese baseball rules. He does not have to sign. If any of them wait out the contracts, the will become free agents. If you want to talk about players who are young and don’t like what they are making look at your new right fielder. I am sure you know what happened with him in Philly.
    Also if seibu knows it will get a higher posting fee next year, maybe going back for a year is not so bad for all parties.

    Seth December 12, 2006, 4:39 pm
  • I’m thinking it might take a little more than that, Paul. Maybe $14M/year? A touch more?
    Oh no, I just got involved. Damn damn DAMN!

    Devine December 12, 2006, 4:40 pm
  • If you think he is not worth a big contract what about a short term deal? I think all parties would except a 1yr $15M deal.

    Seth December 12, 2006, 4:44 pm
  • that would cost the sox $66.1M.
    for one year.

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 4:45 pm
  • Unless there’s a full 5 years of arbitration, a 1-year deal makes absolutely no sense for Boston.

    desturbd1 December 12, 2006, 4:49 pm
  • …but i’d love it if the sox signed onto that one…

    Yankee Fan In Boston December 12, 2006, 4:52 pm
  • assuming Boston treats him fair, and offers him fair market value, he would surely sign an extension in Boston. Why does 1yr deal make no sense, please elaborate.

    Seth December 12, 2006, 4:59 pm
  • Because the distance between “would surely sign an extension in Boston” and “Daisuke Matsuzaka agrees to a 4/5 year deal” is light-years apart in terms of security. Also, if Boras gets the chance to have Daisuke sign a one year deal, he’ll take it and then start an open auction in the 2007 off-season.

    Quo December 12, 2006, 5:04 pm

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